From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 3 20:21:10 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB9B2585739 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 20:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B68225802B3 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 20:10:10 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=sprynet.com; b=JNZJTM7b6ebr6L12DcXCvFdbS/Th3UImOulj7ZioRUO05h198Vd4FDt26DBdPISK; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [70.125.26.119] (helo=nHP) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ZMRgD-0000Iq-JZ for mgs@autox.team.net; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 22:10:13 -0400 To: "MG Digest" Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 22:10:13 -0400 Thread-Index: AdDOWqiKT/0bABNfSIqpqH9r3bDO/Q== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Mgs] Classic 24 Hours at Daytona From: Norm via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============4060980233518745635== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01D0CE39.2BAA8E80" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D0CE39.2BAA8E80 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you didn't get to this race last year, don't miss it this year. Fantastic cars, fantastic racing and for those in the Car Corral, Goodie Bags, and free coffee and donuts. Here's info on the 2015 event: Join us on November 14-15, 2015! Be a part of history! Great Racing - Last year, Historic Sportscar Racing, Ltd. (HSR) presented the inaugural "Classic 24 Hours at Daytona." It was a resounding success with some of the best racing seen in years by many of the world's most famous and historic race cars and drivers. Vintage and historic sports cars from 21 countries raced around the clock on the high banks of Daytona International Speedway. Racers included rarely seen cars like Porsche 956's, 962's, Ford GT40's, Ferrari Daytona's and more. For a full list of 2014 Classic 24 Hour results go to: http://classic24hour.com/results.html And, for video clips, see: http://www.classic24hour.com/video.html Car Corrals - For the 2015 Classic 24 Hour we will again have Car Corrals. This year they will be trackside along the fence between the East Hairpin and where PCA has the Car Corral at the Rolex 24 Hour. Nearby bleachers overlooking the East Hairpin offer great viewing of the races. * 2-Day Weekend admission tickets are $45. * Registered car club members will receive a special code for complimentary parking from their club. Normal Infield parking is $15. Clubs must register with us first. * The first 100 cars to arrive will get free Goodie Bags including the Rennsport Reunion issue of Vintage Motorsport and much more. * Everyone gets free coffee and donuts on both days courtesy of a local donut chain. Behind-the-scenes tour - * Sign up early for complimentary behind-the-scenes tour! Sign up will be at the "Vintage Motorsport Coffee Tent on Saturday. The first 30 car owners to register will get a behind-the-scenes paddock/garage tour conducted by HSR General Manager James Redman, who is the son of legendary sportscar champion and 3 time Daytona 24 Hour winner, Brian Redman. It will include a tour of race control, timing and scoring, tech etc.... It will also include a visit to victory circle, driver's area/suite in the 500 club with a talk about Daytona and Rolex 24 history, special cars, how HSR runs a race weekend of this magnitude and maybe meet a star driver. Car Show - * Sunday - we will have a judged Car Show. Awards will be supported by sponsors. (Be sure to register by November 7, 2015.) Registration is free. Contacts: Buy tickets: www.hsrtickets.com . Register for Car Corral or Car Show: nsippel@vintagemotorsport.com See you there. Norm ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D0CE39.2BAA8E80 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you didn't get to this race = last year, don't miss it this year.  Fantastic cars, fantastic = racing and for those in the Car Corral, Goodie Bags, and free coffee and = donuts.

 

Here's info on the 2015 event:

Join us on November 14-15, 2015!  Be a part of = history!

 

Great Racing -

Last year, Historic Sportscar Racing, Ltd. (HSR) = presented the inaugural “Classic 24 Hours at Daytona.”  It was a resounding success = with some of the best racing seen in years by many of the world’s = most famous and historic race cars and drivers.  Vintage and historic sports = cars from 21 countries raced around the clock on the high banks of = Daytona International Speedway.  = Racers included rarely seen cars like Porsche 956's, 962's, Ford = GT40's, Ferrari Daytona's and more.  For a full list of 2014 Classic = 24 Hour results go to: http://classic24hour.com/r= esults.html   =  And, for video = clips, see: http://www.classic24hour= .com/video.html 

 

Car Corrals -

For the 2015 Classic 24 Hour we will again have Car = Corrals.  This year they = will be trackside along the fence between the East Hairpin and where PCA = has the Car Corral at the Rolex 24 Hour.  Nearby bleachers overlooking = the East Hairpin offer great viewing of the races.

 

  • 2-Day Weekend admission tickets are $45. 
  • Registered car club = members will receive a special code for complimentary parking from their = club.  Normal Infield = parking is $15.  Clubs must = register with us first.
  • The first 100 cars to arrive will get = free Goodie Bags including the Rennsport Reunion issue of Vintage = Motorsport and much more.
  • Everyone gets free coffee and donuts = on both days courtesy of a local donut chain. 

 

 

Behind-the-scenes tour -

  • Sign up early for complimentary behind-the-scenes tour!  Sign up will be at the = “Vintage Motorsport Coffee Tent on = Saturday.

The first 30 car = owners to register will get a behind-the-scenes paddock/garage tour = conducted by HSR General Manager James Redman, who is the son of = legendary sportscar champion and 3 time Daytona 24 Hour winner, Brian = Redman. It will include a tour of race control, timing and scoring, tech = etc....  It will also = include a visit to victory circle, driver’s area/suite in the 500 = club with a talk about Daytona and Rolex 24 history, special cars, how = HSR runs a race weekend of this magnitude and maybe meet a star = driver.

 

Car Show -

  • Sunday - we will have a judged Car = Show.  Awards will be = supported by sponsors.  (Be sure to register by = November 7, 2015.)  = Registration is free.

 

Contacts:

Buy tickets: www.hsrtickets.com.

=

Register for Car Corral or Car Show: = nsippel@vintagemotorsport.com

 

See you = there.

 

Norm

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D0CE39.2BAA8E80-- --===============4060980233518745635== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============4060980233518745635==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 8 11:29:26 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0095D258761B for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 11:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa06-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa06-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0236258620C for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 11:09:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Aragorn ([205.197.253.163]) by p3plsmtpa06-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 2H9o1r00D3YHaqt01H9p1N; Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:09:49 -0700 To: Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 10:09:46 -0700 Thread-Index: AdDR+mloC7U1qaSGTCeOCNxWGzaoOw== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1805857271143854145== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_034A_01D0D1C2.5B5349B0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_034A_01D0D1C2.5B5349B0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am in the process of re-installing my front suspension and have a couple of questions. As the upper link goes in I am supposed to tighten ultimately until there is around .003 in end play. With the rubbers on I assume it has to be a feel fitting? However, it took all my persuasion to even get the endcaps, hardened washers and link between the arms on the top. There is no way to have any endplay. What to do? The lower swivel should have a similar endplay but the tightness seems more to do with the tightness of the lower arms to the bottom plate? What to do? When tightening all of the castellated nuts at the swivel pins and the lower arms to chassis pins how tight are the nuts to be tightened. I know on the lower arms, the bushes are to be equally compressed, which is kind of hard to achieve, but how tight is tight enough? Also, the swivels spun around with great ease before tightening and inserting swivels between arms. However, the installed unit seems to bind when rotating the around the swivel pins now. There is nothing that should be binding this rotation other than perhaps the rubber boots covering the inside of the links as it rotates through a rough exterior wall of the swivel pin itself. Am I doing something wrong? TIA, Clayton ------=_NextPart_000_034A_01D0D1C2.5B5349B0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am in the process of re-installing my front = suspension and have a couple of questions. As the upper link goes in I = am supposed to tighten ultimately until there is around .003 in end = play. With the rubbers on I assume it has to be a  feel fitting? = However, it took all my persuasion to even get the endcaps, hardened = washers and link between the arms on the top. There is no way to have = any endplay. What to do? The lower swivel should have a similar endplay = but the tightness seems more to do with the tightness of the lower arms = to the bottom plate? What to do?

When = tightening all of the castellated nuts at the swivel pins and the lower = arms to chassis pins how tight are the nuts to be tightened. I know on = the lower arms, the bushes are to be equally compressed, which is kind = of hard to achieve, but how tight is tight enough?

Also, the swivels spun around with great ease before = tightening and inserting swivels between arms. However, the installed = unit seems to bind when rotating the around the swivel pins now. There = is nothing that should be binding this rotation other than perhaps the = rubber boots covering the inside of the links as it rotates through a = rough exterior wall of the swivel pin itself. Am I doing something = wrong?

 

TIA,

 

Clayton

------=_NextPart_000_034A_01D0D1C2.5B5349B0-- --===============1805857271143854145== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============1805857271143854145==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 8 14:33:12 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14252585727 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 14:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.centurylink.net [205.219.233.9]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F9B2584569 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 13:50:25 -0600 (MDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=xwPayol1AAAA:8 a=zo8hvysWAAAA:8 a=z1R5-WJlAAAA:8 a=TQc4DSrBP_Up9nJTVBAA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=jGFhaVNi7C8A:10 a=o8hDQ0G7OvMA:10 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 Authentication-Results: smtp03.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:53700] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id 9D/0C-31591-E7D56C55; Sat, 08 Aug 2015 15:50:22 -0400 To: References: Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:50:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: Eric J Russell via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net > I am in the process of re-installing my front suspension and have a couple > of questions. As the upper link goes in I am supposed to tighten > ultimately until there is around .003 in end play. > > When tightening all of the castellated nuts at the swivel pins and the > lower arms to chassis pins how tight are the nuts to be tightened. > > Also, the swivels spun around with great ease before tightening and > inserting swivels between arms. However, the installed unit seems to bind > when rotating the around the swivel pins now. The MGA Guru will have some info to help: http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/susp1.htm http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29224 Referring to the sketch from Moss Motors: the play for the links is due to the distance tube (#21) being slightly longer than the swivel link with bushing (#7 & 10). I have read about some replacement parts that were made incorrectly - the distance tube not being the correct length. Sometimes it is necessary to loosen the cross-bolt in the upper A-arm (shock link) in order to easily install the upper swivel link. The kingpins have a central area with smaller diameter - this is for the distance tubes (#21) to pass through. If the swivel links are turned in too far or too little the distance tubes will foul the kingpin when it is rotated. Make sure you have them centered about this section on the kingpins. The suspension nuts are tightened 'tight enough'. I suppose there is a torque measurement but in reality they are large nuts/threads and if you can break them using hand tools then they were defective and it was good they broke in your garage! It is important that they be tightened with the weight of the car on the suspension - tires on the ground/bounce it a few times to settle everything in a neutral position - then do the final tightening. If needed, tighten them a little more to allow the cotter pin to be inserted. Eric Russell Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 8 18:54:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A1D2589105 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 18:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa08-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa08-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.108]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE19D258452C for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 18:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Aragorn ([205.197.253.163]) by p3plsmtpa08-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 2QVF1r00j3YHaqt01QVGm8; Sat, 08 Aug 2015 17:29:17 -0700 To: References: <99F63B49AC264A7783E8BE4F9BF0AE61@EricJRussellPC> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 17:29:13 -0700 Thread-Index: AQHcm3ZhMJFpVrBk1gkfkzvKiMnECwMkFmKondIT2AA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net See comments in line below: I still don't know how tight to make the hub nut. And now further below... > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric J Russell [mailto:ejrussell@mebtel.net] > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 12:50 PM > To: mgs@autox.team.net > Cc: crk@godblessthe.us > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory > > > I am in the process of re-installing my front suspension and have a > > couple of questions. As the upper link goes in I am supposed to > > tighten ultimately until there is around .003 in end play. > > > > When tightening all of the castellated nuts at the swivel pins and the > > lower arms to chassis pins how tight are the nuts to be tightened. > > > > Also, the swivels spun around with great ease before tightening and > > inserting swivels between arms. However, the installed unit seems to > > bind when rotating the around the swivel pins now. > > The MGA Guru will have some info to help: > http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/susp1.htm > > > http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=2922 > 4 > Referring to the sketch from Moss Motors: the play for the links is due to the > distance tube (#21) being slightly longer than the swivel link with bushing (#7 > & 10). I have read about some replacement parts that were made incorrectly > - the distance tube not being the correct length. > > Sometimes it is necessary to loosen the cross-bolt in the upper A-arm (shock > link) in order to easily install the upper swivel link. Yep, thought about doing this but wasn't sure how wise it would be to split that Joint. Fortunately, I was able to squeeze the swivel and parts in just barely. Either way, still no answer to how tight. Given that the upper links were tight getting in, I suspect that tightening just a bit more that minimal will do, to hold the pieces tight against the inner steel piece given that that path should be tight so that the swivel will rotate inside the brass bushing. There doesn't seem to be any way to measure or use to have the .003 play in there. In addition, the book calls for 80/90 weight oil for lubrication of the swivels and pin. Barney suggests grease. Problem with 80/90 is that it will slowly collect at the bottom seal or leak out the bottom swivel pin hole. Good thing is it flow better around the pin and bushing and down the threads of the pin. Problem with grease is that it will take a lot of pressure to get the grease down the threads of the pin and probably not happen. Good thing is that it will hold its position much better. One thing Barney spoke of was the pin hole which may or may not exist on the bottom of the bottom swivel. My read on the hole is that it allows lubricant to reach even to the bottom of the pin threads by relieving the otherwise built up internal air pressure. I am almost thinking of using 140 weight. > > The kingpins have a central area with smaller diameter - this is for the > distance tubes (#21) to pass through. If the swivel links are turned in too far > or too little the distance tubes will foul the kingpin when it is rotated. Make > sure you have them centered about this section on the kingpins. Upon assembly, I was careful to properly distance the waist. I don't think they rotated as I was fighting putting them on and messing with the darn dust cover which is uncommonly difficult to apply with the spacers. Also, when things weren't tightened down they moved easier. I guess I'll have to put some miles on and retest. > > The suspension nuts are tightened 'tight enough'. I suppose there is a torque > measurement but in reality they are large nuts/threads and if you can break > them using hand tools then they were defective and it was good they broke > in your garage! It is important that they be tightened with the weight of the > car on the suspension - tires on the ground/bounce it a few times to settle > everything in a neutral position - then do the final tightening. If needed, > tighten them a little more to allow the cotter pin to be inserted. No torque guidance other than the bolts for the calipers. I don't want to crush the poly bushing ends but they need to be tight enough that there is essentially no rotation, but also have both bushes on each end equally squished. I guess tight enough will have to do. I'm not concerned with breaking the threaded parts just the bushes properly tight but not too tight, just right:<)) Crk Ps: come one, come all. Certainly there is more knowledge out there. Speak up for the betterment of all... > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > > _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 8 20:10:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7A02589311 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 20:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.235]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D3525809C0 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 19:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Aragorn ([205.197.253.163]) by p3plsmtpa07-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 2Rnb1r0083YHaqt01RncZD; Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:47:37 -0700 To: References: <99F63B49AC264A7783E8BE4F9BF0AE61@EricJRussellPC> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 18:47:33 -0700 Thread-Index: AQHcm3ZhMJFpVrBk1gkfkzvKiMnECwMkFmKondIT2AA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net See comments in line below: I still don't know how tight to make the hub nut. And now further below... > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric J Russell [mailto:ejrussell@mebtel.net] > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 12:50 PM > To: mgs@autox.team.net > Cc: crk@godblessthe.us > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory > > > I am in the process of re-installing my front suspension and have a > > couple of questions. As the upper link goes in I am supposed to > > tighten ultimately until there is around .003 in end play. > > > > When tightening all of the castellated nuts at the swivel pins and the > > lower arms to chassis pins how tight are the nuts to be tightened. > > > > Also, the swivels spun around with great ease before tightening and > > inserting swivels between arms. However, the installed unit seems to > > bind when rotating the around the swivel pins now. > > The MGA Guru will have some info to help: > http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/susp1.htm > > > http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=2922 > 4 > Referring to the sketch from Moss Motors: the play for the links is due to the > distance tube (#21) being slightly longer than the swivel link with bushing (#7 > & 10). I have read about some replacement parts that were made incorrectly > - the distance tube not being the correct length. > > Sometimes it is necessary to loosen the cross-bolt in the upper A-arm (shock > link) in order to easily install the upper swivel link. Yep, thought about doing this but wasn't sure how wise it would be to split that Joint. Fortunately, I was able to squeeze the swivel and parts in just barely. Either way, still no answer to how tight. Given that the upper links were tight getting in, I suspect that tightening just a bit more that minimal will do, to hold the pieces tight against the inner steel piece given that that path should be tight so that the swivel will rotate inside the brass bushing. There doesn't seem to be any way to measure or use to have the .003 play in there. In addition, the book calls for 80/90 weight oil for lubrication of the swivels and pin. Barney suggests grease. Problem with 80/90 is that it will slowly collect at the bottom seal or leak out the bottom swivel pin hole. Good thing is it flow better around the pin and bushing and down the threads of the pin. Problem with grease is that it will take a lot of pressure to get the grease down the threads of the pin and probably not happen. Good thing is that it will hold its position much better. One thing Barney spoke of was the pin hole which may or may not exist on the bottom of the bottom swivel. My read on the hole is that it allows lubricant to reach even to the bottom of the pin threads by relieving the otherwise built up internal air pressure. I am almost thinking of using 140 weight. > > The kingpins have a central area with smaller diameter - this is for the > distance tubes (#21) to pass through. If the swivel links are turned in too far > or too little the distance tubes will foul the kingpin when it is rotated. Make > sure you have them centered about this section on the kingpins. Upon assembly, I was careful to properly distance the waist. I don't think they rotated as I was fighting putting them on and messing with the darn dust cover which is uncommonly difficult to apply with the spacers. Also, when things weren't tightened down they moved easier. I guess I'll have to put some miles on and retest. > > The suspension nuts are tightened 'tight enough'. I suppose there is a torque > measurement but in reality they are large nuts/threads and if you can break > them using hand tools then they were defective and it was good they broke > in your garage! It is important that they be tightened with the weight of the > car on the suspension - tires on the ground/bounce it a few times to settle > everything in a neutral position - then do the final tightening. If needed, > tighten them a little more to allow the cotter pin to be inserted. No torque guidance other than the bolts for the calipers. I don't want to crush the poly bushing ends but they need to be tight enough that there is essentially no rotation, but also have both bushes on each end equally squished. I guess tight enough will have to do. I'm not concerned with breaking the threaded parts just the bushes properly tight but not too tight, just right:<)) Crk Ps: come one, come all. Certainly there is more knowledge out there. Speak up for the betterment of all... > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > > _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 8 20:59:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EABA2588D03 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 20:59:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC730258451E for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 20:42:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6986F2C04D5 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 20:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:42:34 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:36.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/36.0 SeaMonkey/2.33.1 To: mgs Subject: [Mgs] Team.Net - The party never ends From: Mark J Bradakis via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Someone hacked into the Team.Net web server, through another domain I host, it appears. No real damage that I can see, other than creating web logs that filled the filesystem and brought a number of things to a halt. Fun. I'll be working on it for a while. Service may just go away without notice, no mail, no archives, nothing. I'll try to keep the downtimes and single user mode to a minimum, please bear with me as I get things back to what passes as normal at Team.Net. Just what I planned to do for the weekend. Sigh. mjb. _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 19:19:34 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA3D25848D8 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 19:19:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.centurylink.net [205.219.233.9]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4529925802CB for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 18:58:40 -0600 (MDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=xwPayol1AAAA:8 a=z1R5-WJlAAAA:8 a=zo8hvysWAAAA:8 a=akfjVbWUzW0zD9IVSAEA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=BXDlA0lBht8A:10 a=o8hDQ0G7OvMA:10 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 Authentication-Results: smtp02.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:50538] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id 66/89-24216-E37F7C55; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 20:58:39 -0400 To: References: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:58:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: Eric J Russell via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net > > http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29224 > > Referring to the sketch from Moss Motors: > I still don't know how tight to make the hub nut. Do you mean #43? The MG is not like an American car - the combination of spacer # 37, the inner bearing, spacer # 40, the outer bearing, and washer #42 are supposed to be tight when the nut is installed. The innermost spacer (#37) has to be installed the right way around. (the spacer #40's fit is obvious - it'll only go in one way) See figure K2 in section K of the workshop manual (link below) for a cut-away view of the assembled hub. So, the hub nut it tightened 'tight' and if needed, tightened a little more to allow insertion of the cotter pin. Note that the spindle is drilled in two places for the cotter pin - vertically & horizontally. If the cotter does not fit in one place, try the other. If one doesn't align, the other should be very close so the nut would only need a slight bit of movement to put the pin in. The MGA TwinCam & Deluxe has a slightly different assembly that uses shims to adjust bearing play. > In addition, the book calls for 80/90 weight oil for lubrication of the > swivels and pin. What book & where does it say that? The MGA Workshop Manual is available here: http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/books/wsm.htm > Ps: come one, come all. Certainly there is more knowledge out there. Speak > up for the betterment of all... Don't trust me, eh? ...J/K... Eric Russell Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 20:08:28 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40E425855C7 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-01.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-01.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.230]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2220F2584453 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 19:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Aragorn ([205.197.253.163]) by p3plsmtpa07-01.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 2pmK1r0083YHaqt01pmMC7; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 18:46:22 -0700 To: "'Eric J Russell'" , References: <6FFC83F448CB462D8965420589C78C25@EricJRussellPC> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 18:46:19 -0700 Thread-Index: AQHg4STpCuWg741AiG4Ab6H4uofrVAMY7L5nncuPdRA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric J Russell [mailto:ejrussell@mebtel.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 5:58 PM > To: mgs@autox.team.net > Cc: crk@godblessthe.us > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory > > > > > http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=2922 > 4 > > > Referring to the sketch from Moss Motors: > > > I still don't know how tight to make the hub nut. > > Do you mean #43? The MG is not like an American car - the combination of > spacer # 37, the inner bearing, spacer # 40, the outer bearing, and washer > #42 are supposed to be tight when the nut is installed. The innermost spacer > (#37) has to be installed the right way around. (the spacer #40's fit is obvious > - it'll only go in one way) See figure K2 in section K of the workshop manual > (link below) for a cut-away view of the assembled hub. So, the hub nut it > tightened 'tight' and if needed, tightened a little more to allow insertion of > the cotter pin. Note that the spindle is drilled in two places for the cotter pin - > vertically & horizontally. If the cotter does not fit in one place, try the other. > If one doesn't align, the other should be very close so the nut would only > need a slight bit of movement to put the pin in. Dude, 43? I'm thinking 41. I'm not talking about any studs here:<)) Sorry, I am in the KK's, I have a 1600 mkII with wire wheels which makes the nut number 14 on page KK.3. For my spindles, I only have a single hole for the cotter pin to go into. I know the inner spacer needs to be tight to the two bearings, if I am too tight the bearings wear, if too loose the three parts don't properly lock up and bearing start to wear wobbly in their hub locations which happened thanks to the PO. So tight plus a turn for the cotter it sounds like. > > The MGA TwinCam & Deluxe has a slightly different assembly that uses shims > to adjust bearing play. > > > > In addition, the book calls for 80/90 weight oil for lubrication of the > > swivels and pin. > > What book & where does it say that? Check out P section in the manual. It tells us to put 80/90 in the swivels and 30 weight in the engine:<)) > > The MGA Workshop Manual is available here: > http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/books/wsm.htm Thanks Barney!!!!!!!! > > > > Ps: come one, come all. Certainly there is more knowledge out there. > Speak > > up for the betterment of all... > > Don't trust me, eh? ...J/K... > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 20:39:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CB1825899B6 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:39:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.centurylink.net [205.219.233.9]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EFB32585137 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:15:43 -0600 (MDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=xwPayol1AAAA:8 a=z1R5-WJlAAAA:8 a=zo8hvysWAAAA:8 a=jXMChceyWt7G-13-FFUA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=o8hDQ0G7OvMA:10 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 Authentication-Results: smtp03.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:53016] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id 9E/DF-12767-E4908C55; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:15:42 -0400 To: , References: <6FFC83F448CB462D8965420589C78C25@EricJRussellPC> <049801d0d30e$5c77c3a0$15674ae0$@godblessthe.us> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:14:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: Eric J Russell via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net >> Referring to the sketch from Moss Motors: > Dude, 43? I'm thinking 41. I'm not talking about any studs here:<)) > Sorry, I am in the KK's, I have a 1600 mkII with wire wheels which makes > the > nut number 14 on page KK.3. Dude?!? I am not a dude... I also have a 1600, MK1. Unless you have a Deluxe or TwinCam the front suspension/hub bearings are the same. The #43 I am referring to is in the Moss Motors parts diagram. #41 is the same item in the MGA workshop manual page K2. http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29224 > I know the inner spacer needs to be tight to the > two bearings, if I am too tight the bearings wear, if too loose the three > parts don't properly lock up and bearing start to wear wobbly in their hub > locations which happened thanks to the PO. So tight plus a turn for the > cotter it sounds like. If the bearings are not a tight (very tight) fit into the hub then the hub is worn. The shop manual advises to NOT remove the bearings unneccesarily as this wears the hub's machined surface and then the bearings no longer fit tight in the hub. Replacement of the hub is the fix. It might be possible to use a Locktite product to glue the outer race in place. Google Locktite Bearing Mount. > Check out P section in the manual. It tells us to put 80/90 in the swivels > and 30 weight in the engine:<)) That refers to the steering rack, not the swivel links/kingpins. It is a bit confusing - see the workshop manual; figure P.1 section P.2 "Steering Gear (C)". The "C" refers to the chart of lubricants - item C is grease. Section P.4 "Steering Gearbox (B)" is indeed hypoid oil for the steering rack. See "Lubrication Chart" http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/books/wsm/wsm_t_lube_chart.pdf Eric Russell Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 10 08:58:53 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93E625B1143 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:58:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-7.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-7.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.71]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07ACD25B0DA3 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-7-imp with bizsmtp id 32oR1r00W4LtS42012oS1C; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 15:48:26 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=ocCTFW3pXcjCPW24d4UA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=S81R-Ro4Yh8A:10 To: References: <6FFC83F448CB462D8965420589C78C25@EricJRussellPC> <049801d0d30e$5c77c3a0$15674ae0$@godblessthe.us> <59C4FA931D24496BA0F137B246C275F3@EricJRussellPC> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 15:32:41 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGA front suspension interrogatory From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Haven't we been here before? With the 1600 Mk1 being different with ball race bearings compared to later models with tapered rollers? ----- Original Message ----- >> Sorry, I am in the KK's, I have a 1600 mkII with wire wheels which makes > > I also have a 1600, MK1. Unless you have a Deluxe or TwinCam the front > suspension/hub bearings are the same. _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 12 18:51:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1652586CA8 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp0.ctinetworks.com (smtp0.ctinetworks.com [205.166.61.207]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611252586C01 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DavePC (24.115.153.73.res-cmts.sth3.ptd.net [24.115.153.73]) by smtp0.ctinetworks.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A0E6EF60C4 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 20:25:46 -0400 (EDT) To: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 20:25:46 -0400 Importance: Normal Subject: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: dave willner via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0646192879775751992== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01D0D53D.1217B7D0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01D0D53D.1217B7D0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just got my car back from a getting a new clutch and hydraulics and I = had a problem with either the temp sensor or the thermostat, no reading = on gauge and ran very rough under load, just replaced both and all is = well again. When I got things put back together I noticed that both = harnesses that go to the back of the alternator were off. I got the = three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and the oil press = transmitter lead all put back on ok. But there=E2=80=99s a single heavy = brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made for = two heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in it? Where = does this need to go, I=E2=80=99ve heard about the fact the older 5 pin = alternators are obsolete and they=E2=80=99re all now 3 pin? What do I do = with the brown lead? Thanks for the help Dave Willner Stroudsburg, PA 59 TR3A BRG 70 MGB BRG 70 BSA 441 VS ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01D0D53D.1217B7D0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just got my car back from a getting a new clutch and hydraulics = and I had=20 a problem with either the temp sensor or the thermostat, no reading on = gauge and=20 ran very rough under load, just replaced both and all is well again. = When I got=20 things put back together I noticed that both harnesses that go to the = back of=20 the alternator were off. I got the three prong plug back on, the temp = sensor=20 lead and the oil press transmitter lead all put back on ok.  But = there=E2=80=99s a=20 single heavy brown positive lead that has a large double black connector = (made=20 for two heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in it? Where = does=20 this need to go, I=E2=80=99ve heard about the fact the older 5 pin = alternators are=20 obsolete and they=E2=80=99re all now 3 pin? What do I do with the brown = lead? =20 Thanks for the help
 
Dave=20 Willner
Stroudsburg, PA
59 TR3A BRG
70 MGB BRG
70 BSA 441=20 VS
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01D0D53D.1217B7D0-- --===============0646192879775751992== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============0646192879775751992==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 01:49:26 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BA4258603C for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 01:49:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB532585AA7 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 01:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-4-imp with bizsmtp id 47cA1r00J4LtS42017cAki; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:36:10 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Yv7ev7OPsTaOShulEmUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=gVU-by78CpOb_n1wlYQA:9 a=GJCaiG3a-MEA_jNN:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: "dave willner" , References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:31:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0289366280317953934== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01D0D5A2.72BAB000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01D0D5A2.72BAB000 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Firstly I don't really see why a temp sender or gauge problem should = make it run rough under load, but if it's OK now then it's water under = the bridge. "But there=E2=80=99s a single heavy brown positive lead that has a large = double black connector (made for two heavy wire leads) but only has one = female connector in it?" This sounds like a PO mod to me, there is nothing like that round any = MGB alternator that I'm aware of. Does it carry 12v all the time? >From what I have been able to determine from 69 to 71 a 16ACR alternator = was used that had three connections close together on the back. It = seems that the middle one of these was a large spade and is the output = terminal. To one side of that is a standard spade which is the warning = light terminal, and the third terminal looks like a standard spade but = has chamfered corners as in = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altpm2.jp= g. This was the battery sensing terminal which had a standard gauge = brown wire going back to the solenoid battery cable terminal, as well as = the heavy gauge output wire. This means that under heavy loads the = alternator maintains a better system and battery voltage as it is able = to ignore losses in the output wire between alternator and solenoid. That was replaced by a different system, also three pin, but with two = large spades and one standard as here = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altmetro.= jpg. The two large spades are connected together i.e. are both outputs, = although at first only one was used i.e. only two wires to the alt. On = later models a second heavy gauge brown was used to reduce losses under = heavy current conditions and maintain higher battery and system voltage. Most MGBs probably have different alts now to what they came out of the = factory with, and with the four wiring systems (the first alts had two = plugs and up to five wires) it is anyone's guess how they have been = modified. If the warning light comes on with the ignition, and goes off when the = engine is started and revved over 1000 rpm, and if you then see about = 14v on the brown at the fusebox, it is charging OK. If your mystery brown does have battery voltage all the time, and you = have an unused large output terminal on the alt, then you could connect = it to that. But unless you have added some large loads to the electrics = it shouldn't be needed. In which case carefully insulate the end and = tie it in to the harness somewhere so it can't short to anything. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 .. . I got the three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and the oil = press transmitter lead all put back on ok. But there=E2=80=99s a single = heavy brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made = for two heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in it? ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01D0D5A2.72BAB000 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Firstly I don't really see why a temp sender or = gauge problem=20 should make it run rough under load, but if it's OK now then it's water = under=20 the bridge.
 
"But there=E2=80=99s a single = heavy brown positive=20 lead that has a large double black connector (made for two heavy wire = leads) but=20 only has one female connector in it?"
 
This sounds like a PO mod to me, there is nothing = like that=20 round any MGB alternator that I'm aware of.  Does it carry 12v = all the=20 time?
 
From what I have been able to determine from 69 to = 71 a 16ACR=20 alternator was used that had three connections close together on the = back. =20 It seems that the middle one of these was a large spade and is the = output=20 terminal.  To one side of that is a standard spade which is the = warning=20 light terminal, and the third terminal looks like a standard spade but = has=20 chamfered corners as in http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/image= s/altpm2.jpg. =20 This was the battery sensing terminal which had a standard gauge brown = wire=20 going back to the solenoid battery cable terminal, as well as the heavy = gauge=20 output wire.  This means that under heavy loads the alternator = maintains a=20 better system and battery voltage as it is able to ignore losses in the = output=20 wire between alternator and solenoid.
 
That was replaced by a different system, also three = pin, but=20 with two large spades and one standard as here http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima= ges/altmetro.jpg. =20 The two large spades are connected together i.e. are both outputs, = although at=20 first only one was used i.e. only two wires to the alt.  On later = models a=20 second heavy gauge brown was used to reduce losses under heavy current=20 conditions and maintain higher battery and system voltage.
 
Most MGBs probably have different alts now to what = they came=20 out of the factory with, and with the four wiring systems (the first = alts had=20 two plugs and up to five wires) it is anyone's guess how they have been=20 modified.
 
If the warning light comes on with the ignition, and = goes off=20 when the engine is started and revved over 1000 rpm, and if you then see = about=20 14v on the brown at the fusebox, it is charging OK.
 
If your mystery brown does have battery voltage all = the time,=20 and you have an unused large output terminal on the alt, then you could = connect=20 it to that.  But unless you have added some large loads to the = electrics it=20 shouldn't be needed.  In which case carefully insulate the end and = tie it=20 in to the harness somewhere so it can't short to anything.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
..
. I got the three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and = the oil=20 press transmitter lead all put back on ok.  But there=E2=80=99s a = single heavy=20 brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made for = two=20 heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in=20 it?
------=_NextPart_000_0052_01D0D5A2.72BAB000-- --===============0289366280317953934== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============0289366280317953934==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 03:03:25 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DC42585CC9 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 03:03:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267A72585EBF for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 03:00:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-4-imp with bizsmtp id 490p1r00P4LtS420190pLP; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:00:49 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=EWPv29UQRn8WjtAr8OYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=E9qOqmLDXY0A:10 a=L_bOUKe1qdfgCRVBE3IA:9 a=MLxAUDCSQtbaJ9Tp:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: "dave willner" , References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC> <20E3A2B5BE41496985465A4F176BC7E8@paul> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:59:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1156400758190381994== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01D0D5AE.CF1EEA80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01D0D5AE.CF1EEA80 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correction! The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to five wires. In 1972 = it was the three pin plug with two wires, but from 1973 until maybe 1977 = it was the 3-wire battery sensing system. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 From what I have been able to determine from 69 to 71 a 16ACR = alternator was used that had three connections close together on the = back. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01D0D5AE.CF1EEA80 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Correction!
 
The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to = five=20 wires.  In 1972 it was the three pin plug with two wires, but from = 1973=20 until maybe 1977 it was the 3-wire battery sensing system.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
From what I have been able to determine from 69 to = 71 a=20 16ACR alternator was used that had three connections close together on = the=20 back.
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01D0D5AE.CF1EEA80-- --===============1156400758190381994== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============1156400758190381994==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 06:03:16 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03052585BA4 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail-la0-f44.google.com (mail-la0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BFE12585B5B for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 05:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by lahi9 with SMTP id i9so24569781lah.2 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:56:14 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pLSWEUOy7u4bGNMozIreb1N3mN3Fm4qFsWkY+T2qr/E=; b=u5vfaMoyEaMPBfgcCtzURe3kFjXtNxCmO6OUBV2IWgmoZCA25TD/hiGFkH2TZ2qNSJ v3pA5rtGLYoAEtORfHjC0QUCGoPvvLyZIyJSiO4kMX/XuHtYSJ6Epi2C77yHwYoRmpw5 RIcE2Z6Sd1L07ArhS3ryBSFq2e6KRRJFOiCd4hf30zxAYtq7KV00+FW7U1wJo5TMDLtW EqfTVDNfFSIQUxnvysALqBEQ09jH49zYN1Or8zcyb6cRu5SkHfxUINtccndVvsfndB0X mFu7qK2bFatTKs7MSu8sWYAaM1q/hqG3ADrtiRmp1F0UsAii2ou0510vBSv1Ckne2Jh1 QYgA== Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.156.129 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.156.129 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:56:13 -0700 (PDT) References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC> <20E3A2B5BE41496985465A4F176BC7E8@paul> <51B5F9C92C9B49FBB7D662550E66CFF6@paul> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:56:13 -0500 To: PaulHunt73 Cc: "mgs@autox.team.net List" Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: Richard Lindsay via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4156115178587279107== --089e0141a1d0a3dc86051d3005f8 Hello Paul, et al., Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with multiple connection options supporting the different alternators? On Aug 13, 2015 4:03 AM, "PaulHunt73 via Mgs" wrote: > Correction! > > The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to five wires. In 1972 it > was the three pin plug with two wires, but from 1973 until maybe 1977 it > was the 3-wire battery sensing system. > > PaulH. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From what I have been able to determine from 69 to 71 a 16ACR alternator > was used that had three connections close together on the back. > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay@gmail.com > > --089e0141a1d0a3dc86051d3005f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Paul, et al.,

Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with multiple = connection options supporting the different alternators?

On Aug 13, 2015 4:03 AM, "PaulHunt73 via Mg= s" <mgs@autox.team.net>= ; wrote:
Correction!
=C2=A0
The 69 to 71 was the one with two plugs and up to fiv= e=20 wires.=C2=A0 In 1972 it was the three pin plug with two wires, but from 197= 3=20 until maybe 1977 it was the 3-wire battery sensing system.
=C2=A0
PaulH.
=C2=A0
----- Original Message -----
From what I have been able to determine from 69 to = 71 a=20 16ACR alternator was used that had three connections close together on th= e=20 back.

_______________________________________________

Mgs@autox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.ne= t/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay@gmail.com

--089e0141a1d0a3dc86051d3005f8-- --===============4156115178587279107== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============4156115178587279107==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 06:48:57 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC112585E7E for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6EBD2584F76 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-4-imp with bizsmtp id 4CbA1r00v4LtS4201CbBZU; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:35:11 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=UFjZ6T6g2TblIicB5O8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=yJZ8z4CO9d3NzpNl7YMA:9 a=6a2egK7M9JW_EA6Y:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: "Richard Lindsay" References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC><20E3A2B5BE41496985465A4F176BC7E8@paul><51B5F9C92C9B49FBB7D662550E66CFF6@paul> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:14:06 +0100 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2405993608799012095== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D0D5C9.EEE285F0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D0D5C9.EEE285F0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, several different harnesses to match the alternator (or earlier = dynamo) being fitted at the time. Of course anyone could have fitted a = replacement harness, and as well as being in the original flavours there = are also conversion harnesses for example when rewiring an early car and = opting to fit an alternator in place of the original dynamo. I'm not = aware of a harness that is capable of being fitted to all the various = alts. If anything they are more likely to be wired to suit the latest = alt with 3 terminals, two of them being outputs. =20 Don't forget there could be PO mods that may or may not be concealed = inside wrapping tape. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with multiple connection = options supporting the different alternators? ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D0D5C9.EEE285F0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
No, several different harnesses to match the = alternator (or=20 earlier dynamo) being fitted at the time.  Of course anyone = could have=20 fitted a replacement harness, and as well as being in the original = flavours=20 there are also conversion harnesses for example when rewiring an = early car=20 and opting to fit an alternator in place of the original = dynamo.  I'm=20 not aware of a harness that is capable of being fitted = to all the=20 various alts.  If anything they are more likely to be wired to suit = the=20 latest alt with 3 terminals, two of them being outputs.  =
 
Don't forget there could be PO mods that may or may = not be=20 concealed inside wrapping tape.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----

Is that perhaps a replacement wiring harness, with = multiple=20 connection options supporting the different alternators?

 
------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D0D5C9.EEE285F0-- --===============2405993608799012095== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============2405993608799012095==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 07:48:54 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4152585E94 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp1.ctinetworks.com (smtp1.ctinetworks.com [205.166.61.208]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB722585E7E for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DavePC (24.115.153.73.res-cmts.sth3.ptd.net [24.115.153.73]) by smtp1.ctinetworks.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B15C48F45; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:44:50 -0400 (EDT) To: "PaulHunt73" , References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC> <20E3A2B5BE41496985465A4F176BC7E8@paul> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:44:51 -0400 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: dave willner via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5205728589681425391== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005D_01D0D5AC.B3934A10" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01D0D5AC.B3934A10 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. The only = connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy = brown lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos = though, its 2 side by side and one below on the right side?=20 Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other 2 prong = plus is not live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been = hanging off for years or not...Also my red ignition warning light = doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the key is turned and I believe it = never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see it come on dimly = last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is typical? Appreciate the help Dave=20 From: PaulHunt73=20 Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 3:31 AM To: dave willner ; mgs@autox.team.net=20 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question Firstly I don't really see why a temp sender or gauge problem should = make it run rough under load, but if it's OK now then it's water under = the bridge. "But there=E2=80=99s a single heavy brown positive lead that has a large = double black connector (made for two heavy wire leads) but only has one = female connector in it?" This sounds like a PO mod to me, there is nothing like that round any = MGB alternator that I'm aware of. Does it carry 12v all the time? >From what I have been able to determine from 69 to 71 a 16ACR alternator = was used that had three connections close together on the back. It = seems that the middle one of these was a large spade and is the output = terminal. To one side of that is a standard spade which is the warning = light terminal, and the third terminal looks like a standard spade but = has chamfered corners as in = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altpm2.jp= g. This was the battery sensing terminal which had a standard gauge = brown wire going back to the solenoid battery cable terminal, as well as = the heavy gauge output wire. This means that under heavy loads the = alternator maintains a better system and battery voltage as it is able = to ignore losses in the output wire between alternator and solenoid. That was replaced by a different system, also three pin, but with two = large spades and one standard as here = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altmetro.= jpg. The two large spades are connected together i.e. are both outputs, = although at first only one was used i.e. only two wires to the alt. On = later models a second heavy gauge brown was used to reduce losses under = heavy current conditions and maintain higher battery and system voltage. Most MGBs probably have different alts now to what they came out of the = factory with, and with the four wiring systems (the first alts had two = plugs and up to five wires) it is anyone's guess how they have been = modified. If the warning light comes on with the ignition, and goes off when the = engine is started and revved over 1000 rpm, and if you then see about = 14v on the brown at the fusebox, it is charging OK. If your mystery brown does have battery voltage all the time, and you = have an unused large output terminal on the alt, then you could connect = it to that. But unless you have added some large loads to the electrics = it shouldn't be needed. In which case carefully insulate the end and = tie it in to the harness somewhere so it can't short to anything. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 .. . I got the three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and the oil = press transmitter lead all put back on ok. But there=E2=80=99s a single = heavy brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made = for two heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in it? ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01D0D5AC.B3934A10 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. The = only=20 connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy = brown lead=20 and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos though, its = 2 side=20 by side and one below on the right side?
 
Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other 2 = prong plus is not live,=20 and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been hanging off for years = or not...Also my red=20 ignition warning light doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the key is = turned and I=20 believe it never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see it come = on dimly last=20 night when the revs dropped low, which I know is typical?
 
Appreciate the help
Dave
 
From: PaulHunt73
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick=20 question
 
Firstly I don't really see why a temp sender or = gauge problem=20 should make it run rough under load, but if it's OK now then it's water = under=20 the bridge.
 
"But there=E2=80=99s a single = heavy brown positive=20 lead that has a large double black connector (made for two heavy wire = leads) but=20 only has one female connector in it?"
 
This sounds like a PO mod to me, there is nothing = like that=20 round any MGB alternator that I'm aware of.  Does it carry 12v all = the=20 time?
 
From what I have been able to determine from 69 to = 71 a 16ACR=20 alternator was used that had three connections close together on the = back. =20 It seems that the middle one of these was a large spade and is the = output=20 terminal.  To one side of that is a standard spade which is the = warning=20 light terminal, and the third terminal looks like a standard spade but = has=20 chamfered corners as in http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/image= s/altpm2.jpg. =20 This was the battery sensing terminal which had a standard gauge brown = wire=20 going back to the solenoid battery cable terminal, as well as the heavy = gauge=20 output wire.  This means that under heavy loads the alternator = maintains a=20 better system and battery voltage as it is able to ignore losses in the = output=20 wire between alternator and solenoid.
 
That was replaced by a different system, also three = pin, but=20 with two large spades and one standard as here http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima= ges/altmetro.jpg. =20 The two large spades are connected together i.e. are both outputs, = although at=20 first only one was used i.e. only two wires to the alt.  On later = models a=20 second heavy gauge brown was used to reduce losses under heavy current=20 conditions and maintain higher battery and system voltage.
 
Most MGBs probably have different alts now to what = they came=20 out of the factory with, and with the four wiring systems (the first = alts had=20 two plugs and up to five wires) it is anyone's guess how they have been=20 modified.
 
If the warning light comes on with the ignition, and = goes off=20 when the engine is started and revved over 1000 rpm, and if you then see = about=20 14v on the brown at the fusebox, it is charging OK.
 
If your mystery brown does have battery voltage all = the time,=20 and you have an unused large output terminal on the alt, then you could = connect=20 it to that.  But unless you have added some large loads to the = electrics it=20 shouldn't be needed.  In which case carefully insulate the end and = tie it=20 in to the harness somewhere so it can't short to anything.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
..
. I got the three prong plug back on, the temp sensor lead and = the oil=20 press transmitter lead all put back on ok.  But there=E2=80=99s a = single heavy=20 brown positive lead that has a large double black connector (made for = two=20 heavy wire leads) but only has one female connector in=20 it?
------=_NextPart_000_005D_01D0D5AC.B3934A10-- --===============5205728589681425391== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============5205728589681425391==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 09:04:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363282586BFB for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:04:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D54258688C for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-4-imp with bizsmtp id 4ErF1r0104LtS4201ErGoC; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:51:16 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=UF0oASd57iws_rGjCtsA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=7LY9a7txFSOqvYMYjkMA:9 a=afcIe3FYiKSUfKdB:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: "dave willner" , References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC> <20E3A2B5BE41496985465A4F176BC7E8@paul> <3AEA2FB25EE24A828003065EA0B01AC3@DavePC> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:45:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0670565929176505454== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D0D5DF.17324C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D0D5DF.17324C60 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is your alt like this? = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/alt16acr.= jpg That is the 4 wire system with two plugs. The upper one is pos (thick = brown) and neg, although there may not be an earth wire on the neg if it = makes that connection through the mounting ears as on all the other = types. In the second plug B+ should have another brown going back to the = solenoid battery terminal with the brown from the first plug. A brown/yellow should go to the IND terminal in this second plug, then = loop back into the harness and out again to a 3rd terminal alongside it = in the same plug. I think this is to protect the electronics in case = that plug becomes detached. Is your clear plug like this? = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altbee3.j= pg If so then it sounds like your harness has the plug for the later 2 and = 3 pin alts, but you still have the 2-plug, 4-wire alt. This shows the three types, how they were wired, and how to convert = between them = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altconv.j= pg If yours aren't like the first two images then without pictures of your = alt and plugs it's a bit difficult to work out what is what. Coming on dimly as the revs drop is actually what happens with a dynamo. = On an alt the light should switch out as the revs go above about = 1000rpm, and switch back on again if they drop below about 600 rpm, with = little changes in brightness. In practice the idle should never drop = that low with an alt, as that stops it charging, and one of the benefits = of the alt is that it should be charging at idle, unlike a dynamo. If = yours isn't coming on with the ignition but does come on dimly as you = describe, then it is not wired correctly. Paul. ----- Original Message -----=20 Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. The = only connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the = heavy brown lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your = photos though, its 2 side by side and one below on the right side?=20 Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other 2 = prong plus is not live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t = been hanging off for years or not...Also my red ignition warning light = doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the key is turned and I believe it = never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see it come on dimly = last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is typical? ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D0D5DF.17324C60 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Is your alt like this?  http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima= ges/alt16acr.jpg
 
That is the 4 wire system with two plugs.  The = upper one=20 is pos (thick brown) and neg, although there may not be an earth = wire on=20 the neg if it makes that connection through the mounting ears as on all = the=20 other types.
 
In the second plug B+ should have another brown = going back to=20 the solenoid battery terminal with the brown from the first = plug.
 
A brown/yellow should go to the IND terminal = in this=20 second plug, then loop back into the harness and out again to a 3rd = terminal alongside it in the same plug.  I think this is to protect = the=20 electronics in case that plug becomes detached.
 
Is your clear plug like this?  http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag= es/altbee3.jpg
 
If so then it sounds like your harness has the plug = for the=20 later 2 and 3 pin alts, but you still have the 2-plug, 4-wire = alt.
 
This shows the three types, how they were wired, and = how to=20 convert between them http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag= es/altconv.jpg
 
If yours aren't like the first two images then = without=20 pictures of your alt and plugs it's a bit difficult to work out what is=20 what.
 
Coming on dimly as the revs drop is actually what = happens with=20 a dynamo.  On an alt the light should switch out as the revs go = above about=20 1000rpm, and switch back on again if they drop below about 600 rpm, with = little=20 changes in brightness.  In practice the idle should never drop that = low=20 with an alt, as that stops it charging, and one of the benefits of the = alt is=20 that it should be charging at idle, unlike a dynamo.  If yours = isn't coming=20 on with the ignition but does come on dimly as you describe, then it is = not=20 wired correctly.
 
Paul.
----- Original Message -----
Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. = The only=20 connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy = brown=20 lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos = though, its=20 2 side by side and one below on the right side?
 
Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other = 2 prong plus is not=20 live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been hanging off = for years or not...Also=20 my red ignition warning light doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the = key is turned=20 and I believe it never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see = it come on=20 dimly last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is = typical?
------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D0D5DF.17324C60-- --===============0670565929176505454== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============0670565929176505454==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 09:49:31 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FDD258758A for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp1.ctinetworks.com (smtp1.ctinetworks.com [205.166.61.208]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC062585B07 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:35:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DavePC (24.115.153.73.res-cmts.sth3.ptd.net [24.115.153.73]) by smtp1.ctinetworks.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 344FC48F27; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:35:40 -0400 (EDT) To: "PaulHunt73" , References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC> <20E3A2B5BE41496985465A4F176BC7E8@paul> <3AEA2FB25EE24A828003065EA0B01AC3@DavePC> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:35:41 -0400 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: dave willner via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8263342182019519043== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009E_01D0D5BC.2F369AA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01D0D5BC.2F369AA0 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, alt is like the first photo, although the cover says 16ACR, but = same set up otherwise. Ok, I think I got it, the large single B lead = just needs to connect to other top + terminal then. My clear plug is = not like your picture=20 Clear plug looks like this... xxxx xxxx xxxx Thanks Dave From: PaulHunt73=20 Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 10:45 AM To: dave willner ; mgs@autox.team.net=20 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question Is your alt like this? = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/alt16acr.= jpg That is the 4 wire system with two plugs. The upper one is pos (thick = brown) and neg, although there may not be an earth wire on the neg if it = makes that connection through the mounting ears as on all the other = types. In the second plug B+ should have another brown going back to the = solenoid battery terminal with the brown from the first plug. A brown/yellow should go to the IND terminal in this second plug, then = loop back into the harness and out again to a 3rd terminal alongside it = in the same plug. I think this is to protect the electronics in case = that plug becomes detached. Is your clear plug like this? = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altbee3.j= pg If so then it sounds like your harness has the plug for the later 2 and = 3 pin alts, but you still have the 2-plug, 4-wire alt. This shows the three types, how they were wired, and how to convert = between them = http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/images/altconv.j= pg If yours aren't like the first two images then without pictures of your = alt and plugs it's a bit difficult to work out what is what. Coming on dimly as the revs drop is actually what happens with a dynamo. = On an alt the light should switch out as the revs go above about = 1000rpm, and switch back on again if they drop below about 600 rpm, with = little changes in brightness. In practice the idle should never drop = that low with an alt, as that stops it charging, and one of the benefits = of the alt is that it should be charging at idle, unlike a dynamo. If = yours isn't coming on with the ignition but does come on dimly as you = describe, then it is not wired correctly. Paul. ----- Original Message -----=20 Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. The = only connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the = heavy brown lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your = photos though, its 2 side by side and one below on the right side?=20 Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other 2 = prong plus is not live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t = been hanging off for years or not...Also my red ignition warning light = doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the key is turned and I believe it = never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see it come on dimly = last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is typical? ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01D0D5BC.2F369AA0 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, alt is like the first photo, although the cover says 16ACR, = but same=20 set up otherwise. Ok, I think I got it, the large single B lead just = needs to=20 connect to other top + terminal then.  My clear plug is not like = your=20 picture
 
Clear plug looks like this...
 
xxxx      xxxx
xxxx
 
Thanks
Dave
 
From: PaulHunt73
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick=20 question
 
Is your alt like this?  http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/ima= ges/alt16acr.jpg
 
That is the 4 wire system with two plugs.  The = upper one=20 is pos (thick brown) and neg, although there may not be an earth wire on = the neg=20 if it makes that connection through the mounting ears as on all the = other=20 types.
 
In the second plug B+ should have another brown = going back to=20 the solenoid battery terminal with the brown from the first = plug.
 
A brown/yellow should go to the IND terminal in this = second=20 plug, then loop back into the harness and out again to a 3rd terminal = alongside=20 it in the same plug.  I think this is to protect the electronics in = case=20 that plug becomes detached.
 
Is your clear plug like this?  http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag= es/altbee3.jpg
 
If so then it sounds like your harness has the plug = for the=20 later 2 and 3 pin alts, but you still have the 2-plug, 4-wire = alt.
 
This shows the three types, how they were wired, and = how to=20 convert between them http://www.paulhunt73.webspace.virginmedia.com/mgb-stuff/imag= es/altconv.jpg
 
If yours aren't like the first two images then = without=20 pictures of your alt and plugs it's a bit difficult to work out what is=20 what.
 
Coming on dimly as the revs drop is actually what = happens with=20 a dynamo.  On an alt the light should switch out as the revs go = above about=20 1000rpm, and switch back on again if they drop below about 600 rpm, with = little=20 changes in brightness.  In practice the idle should never drop that = low=20 with an alt, as that stops it charging, and one of the benefits of the = alt is=20 that it should be charging at idle, unlike a dynamo.  If yours = isn't coming=20 on with the ignition but does come on dimly as you describe, then it is = not=20 wired correctly.
 
Paul.
----- Original Message -----
Thanks Paul. It is a 16ACR, I had it rebuilt about 5 years ago. = The only=20 connection that fits it is the old clear 3 prong plug with the heavy = brown=20 lead and 3 brown/yellow leads. The plugs are not like your photos = though, its=20 2 side by side and one below on the right side?
 
Also the large brown =E2=80=9Cmystery=E2=80=9D lead on the other = 2 prong plus is not=20 live, and I=E2=80=99m not sure if it hasn=E2=80=99t been hanging off = for years or not...Also=20 my red ignition warning light doesn=E2=80=99t come on either when the = key is turned=20 and I believe it never has since I=E2=80=99ve owned the car, I did see = it come on=20 dimly last night when the revs dropped low, which I know is = typical?
------=_NextPart_000_009E_01D0D5BC.2F369AA0-- --===============8263342182019519043== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============8263342182019519043==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 13 11:05:15 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59E52586EB8 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-4.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6A6A25869F3 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-4-imp with bizsmtp id 4Gzo1r00A4LtS4201GzoFj; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:59:48 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=mqMsHcLZkBEvgtavy3YA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=24RjDd4WRB4A:10 a=9JCUycuVeNRcfomSE-AA:9 a=w7aHlUr7Ji2J9O1F:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: "dave willner" , References: <16EDE44434A64DBB921D5E98DF7D98DE@DavePC> <20E3A2B5BE41496985465A4F176BC7E8@paul> <3AEA2FB25EE24A828003065EA0B01AC3@DavePC> <48DA022826AB4323B4D955881DFF612C@DavePC> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:50:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] alternator wiring quick question From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4849979939974681632== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0119_01D0D5E8.255EC080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0119_01D0D5E8.255EC080 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right, that looks like it should plug into the B+ and IND socket then. ----- Original Message -----=20 Yes, alt is like the first photo, although the cover says 16ACR, but = same set up otherwise. Ok, I think I got it, the large single B lead = just needs to connect to other top + terminal then. My clear plug is = not like your picture=20 Clear plug looks like this... xxxx xxxx xxxx ------=_NextPart_000_0119_01D0D5E8.255EC080 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Right, that looks like it should plug into the B+ = and=20 IND socket then.
----- Original Message -----

Yes, alt is like the first photo, although the cover says 16ACR, = but same=20 set up otherwise. Ok, I think I got it, the large single B lead just = needs to=20 connect to other top + terminal then.  My clear plug is not like = your=20 picture
 
Clear plug looks like this...
 
xxxx      xxxx
xxxx
------=_NextPart_000_0119_01D0D5E8.255EC080-- --===============4849979939974681632== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============4849979939974681632==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 23 15:45:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EB5258B7CC for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 15:45:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.221.63]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73CC258B7A5 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 15:45:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 93165 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2015 21:45:45 -0000 t=1440366345; bh=Z2E9jfc3CbFaIEudQPU1JcEIFqah6jHH6+k15dtboas=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Mime-Version; b=kIbzP/9JkcdBV3MKxa014JKSLUiE+OtemyNcN1Kn+mRJxAZYDZmtEznTdXa4r1Y6pNuSNtB+FwNQHmuefs1EeOne0Q/XHXT28GF1XxdD6CkwLxc5EVMrGeuiBvMYuuXXiR4qn2NUPh4UMlFrrdu3S/XZQCCEfV8HvfQqzC8Q8LM= zEIldtT38j2UqnN8.g.G14_TCKXWbcc68dqEXMKFhHD5IqVw0ueTYBXlIV1e W2gi3kEF7bgMwlsuFB78tTdkvOzlhIQsDeb6gmRP39.N9hSSc5yCQ3aeQd6h hc9zinlWzQQSWh_UOZuMX7wz8tWzvW50jQ5lg6JBU7OuKgevqzTQdm45u2.b xQIR.bJb9zMSlVeIoiL_iuPydZlhBi41lqHMJeGRbpDe8TZum2Ij5MrDHylo z5u7tIK4ZTZYGn_Pn.x3m7Lh7mk7_J_FskGNlwRwZdinxNxF_PXMI_2Bb.Kh Axt1lc5fTBmnmcQlq2zwt2ZNB5rBVYOfvvMp3sLmZG8nWhuzJGRRM6oodF6P BR2ZANSNHPT.mYaru_3BoXwhs5hm_rnUFDN07UQZJBUxgedxVjS212O0k33g hTRXgCn2w.NWixInL9VmexKL3u_5E1aTfEgncbnBC7RLgWBEsVs8k5Rohxr0 GICh8cqZne5Ggcs7vRdMhXtLKQA5BWPpESA8oUxs- Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:45:43 -0500 To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] clutch question From: Mike Duvall via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net My MGA keeps getting harder and harder to shift. I was wondering if the sy= nchronizers are going bad. Lately it seems like the clutch isn=92t diseng= aging like their was air in the lines but the hydraulics were fine. Then n= o clutch at all (sitting at home instead of the road thankfully) The slave= appeared to be moving adequately so I pulled it off and I have all sorts o= f play in the arm. I put a wrench on the arm and it won=92t release the c= lutch. I can use a flashlight and see the throw out bearing move back and = forth. I=92m assuming I have a bad bearing on the arm. Any other ideas or sugges= tions for me before I pull the engine? = Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 23 18:17:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425BC258B59E for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:17:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from nm11-vm7.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (unknown [98.136.218.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC44C258B731 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:05:52 -0600 (MDT) t=1440374744; bh=uiKjN4APu+VpNo2mKb9lvpGdbcfSPIoulD3rvNm19og=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=V3iEo35D2NcSjiQxMncFyJvfiRWJgknaN52RJiK8ansId1U3DoIHmaSFudQ5qw44h0f7bjzWcQ0DfgBXv1slk0SnnHIEYDndW/U/gTJv9HVqFIbXuuRShmVZPb3kKI99B3QFuEnsMNagi23nVNG617P08WD2mgQzUcXgrhkp6rmMiPAt86QvxVygYdy0brtBYR26UEzDpCVMGE3h+1tw1Rwc0kH7IWPMyP8jAtv94H/tpmyMreormjajtaRq9KNADiGziESK9WqQGwfBUF5w7PAA43K4EgI0Rc1INC0js9COoACf9xBQ20anbqzG6m4KA5Ts9lQ0zjWnud4WQkFkMg== Received: from [216.39.60.183] by nm11.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2015 00:05:44 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.235] by tm19.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2015 00:05:44 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1043.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2015 00:05:44 -0000 qXVlZ6ma8rolRunfpEkD5XzMn1yaZHaXOLuakEfW8LNdOmbfrTz9.yiUX5XAB2aaOkJ31eMg_TCM BCR6vJdvbLloR_8nD4Hy1qEpOqfB0doaQP83ZJWTwcJkcYOg6YINGnJrHDhOlijK0U1QsbI2Noqf TzSgW7FUV0awtaK0ycROKJvHxpMf1BgeEzYDehzWLrUcBOtn6RJ8olUs8aGMVsOdoXOKY8EUdGL1 1_AOuoEBHH.Du20cJZuhJmnFcN7su2ti1PTtp8DTFnzWUERFvoVOLd7AsJndP8pDctad1hsJE3Cy 28x8_jNQlCEvIXnttIL23a4DfZqQSCVCC_Il4VPYpPDJnCjTPA6P6t1eyLje02a2vz6taUGt8M3S zCA0ad.iWJh9Z6b2cQ0q_rb2Zn_zsKE5xExkdj4p2stfHzqBbRvi8R6hzcA-- Received: by 216.39.60.210; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 00:05:43 +0000 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 00:05:43 +0000 (UTC) To: Mike Duvall , "mgs@autox.team.net" References: <94ACAFCB-E6F3-446F-81B2-690F28764A67@duvallvideo.com> Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: Jack Wheeler via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5953418335761118925== boundary="----=_Part_6086689_1961446555.1440374743407" ------=_Part_6086689_1961446555.1440374743407 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you are sure the release bearing is being pushed into the clutch pressur= e plate the normal distance (i.e. 1/2" or so), your clutch disc could be st= uck to the flywheel?=C2=A0 This sometimes happens when a car sits for a lon= g time.=C2=A0 If this is the problem, you can usually break it loose by put= ting the car on a flat paved surface, and put it in gear.=C2=A0 While holdi= ng the clutch pedal all the way down to the floor, and your other foot on t= he brake pedal, start the car.=C2=A0 A variation on this is to start the ca= r in gear, then while cruising along, push the clutch pedal and break pedal= both at once, as hard as you can push (for the brake pedal). Another technique is to hook a strong chain to a strong point on the frame = of the MG, and get a big car (i.e. SUV) to tow it with.=C2=A0 Again on a fl= at paved surface, put the car in gear and hold the clutch pedal all the way= down, then start pulling.=C2=A0 This will usually break it loose.=C2=A0 Go= od luck. Jack Wheeler From: Mike Duvall via Mgs To: mgs@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 5:45 PM Subject: [Mgs] clutch question =20 My MGA keeps getting harder and harder to shift.=C2=A0 I was wondering if t= he synchronizers are going bad.=C2=A0 Lately it seems like the clutch isn= =E2=80=99t disengaging like their was air in the lines but the hydraulics w= ere fine.=C2=A0 Then no clutch at all (sitting at home instead of the road = thankfully)=C2=A0 The slave appeared to be moving adequately so I pulled it= off and I have all sorts of play in the arm.=C2=A0 I put a wrench on the a= rm and it won=E2=80=99t release the clutch.=C2=A0 I can use a flashlight an= d see the throw out bearing move back and forth. I=E2=80=99m assuming I have a bad bearing on the arm.=C2=A0 Any other ideas= or suggestions for me before I pull the engine?=20 Thanks,=C2=A0 Mike _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/jwheeler1947@yahoo.c= om ------=_Part_6086689_1961446555.1440374743407 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you are sure = the release bearing is being pushed into the clutch pressure plate the norm= al distance (i.e. 1/2" or so), your clutch disc could be stuck to the flywh= eel?  This sometimes happens when a car sits for a long time.  If= this is the problem, you can usually break it loose by putting the car on = a flat paved surface, and put it in gear.  While holding the clutch pe= dal all the way down to the floor, and your other foot on the brake pedal, = start the car.  A variation on this is to start the car in gear, then = while cruising along, push the clutch pedal and break pedal both at once, a= s hard as you can push (for the brake pedal).

Another technique is to hook a strong= chain to a strong point on the frame of the MG, and get a big car (i.e. SU= V) to tow it with.  Again on a flat paved surface, put the car in gear= and hold the clutch pedal all the way down, then start pulling.  This= will usually break it loose.  Good luck.

Jack Wheeler

From: Mike Duvall via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net> To: mgs@autox.team.net <= br> Sent: Sunday, August 2= 3, 2015 5:45 PM
Subject: [Mgs] clutch question

My MGA keeps getting harder and= harder to shift.  I was wondering if the synchronizers are going bad.=   Lately it seems like the clutch isn=E2=80=99t disengaging like thei= r was air in the lines but the hydraulics were fine.  Then no clutch a= t all (sitting at home instead of the road thankfully)  The slave appe= ared to be moving adequately so I pulled it off and I have all sorts of pla= y in the arm.  I put a wrench on the arm and it won=E2=80=99t release= the clutch.  I can use a flashlight and see the throw out bearing mov= e back and forth.

I=E2=80=99m assuming I have a bad bearing on the a= rm.  Any other ideas or suggestions for me before I pull the engine? =

Thanks,  Mike


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------=_Part_6086689_1961446555.1440374743407-- --===============5953418335761118925== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============5953418335761118925==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 23 20:16:47 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1E3258BA2A for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 20:16:47 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp101.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (smtp101.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.221.60]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E86F258AF58 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 20:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22107 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2015 02:09:53 -0000 t=1440382193; bh=QiVV3wmxvzmBT7kRRqNQ1T6ThfvNmtiVZjy8smDjSzo=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Message-Id:References:To; b=bjAQfUcnxsX7IKngNvluj0U0/g/L+y1R+XCVhIX8jWjJBbfEtDgDT3j08s5hHBJ0n0874i+ELohsQ6eiWkjNGyvd/wUm1iJF/j691MOXmswnF8p2WJfyhfNA38DU4LxU/UuXIFNqL/6ok/JjDqihwDNCz1ca7l2AwvtjSLOKHTA= CWXjWkzzD0VWCuT0l2w7APVIy2d3bMLyOxc6bu3u28KRFADlK8mCQ705gO3P pMRNn502aJ_.y4An5EVLhtJYDDT_3GYJRRUdW2kTqcUycURGHnljiQXu1iR0 kcIBoV_wTppdU_sge97snubzbz_cBvNzl_l7GODcuZF8j3V1HHcW5TFvQCmL Fg3ZW3cVt9G0iOdxXZiA1qhbZufAPOGRn.C34kMiZoho_Pgt_94KqpnTwEYO VLfFVQD0104IX7vZXNHqGWLeLZAMSuAGS5vuaZs7NqaC.Ng2F3kk4CEwItxa mPpKVFEGMDlUcQgoLuVI.J4oEsfA3Db5Ji9TCnc1Zt8AFRkQqzjUmxGdDySO 80uKF67LhtXrDFkg9SjkRY68NuOjFVhqQu5zxiM5jSl_.y_tJ_7fw_.xHaNt .7nCFjKZt7WO7W98JsF.x95yysMnCwoJAxYc5T97SSEYV2qVqwlcyh3mAul9 uVROxO6ihNARMzBBNTNuQHQHqrfozL7K1 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:09:51 -0500 References: <94ACAFCB-E6F3-446F-81B2-690F28764A67@duvallvideo.com> <71088165.6086690.1440374743414.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> To: Jack Wheeler Cc: "mgs@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: Mike Duvall via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0278789951758442762== --Apple-Mail=_0BFEE158-58E7-499F-BEC4-7A4DF466A252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252 I last drove it 4 weeks ago, could it freeze up that fast? If it were = frozen, would that account for the not being able to move the clutch = cover? I would think so. =20 I was thinking the shaft bushings might be so worn, I=92m not getting = the right leverage.=20 On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Jack Wheeler = wrote: > If you are sure the release bearing is being pushed into the clutch = pressure plate the normal distance (i.e. 1/2" or so), your clutch disc = could be stuck to the flywheel? This sometimes happens when a car sits = for a long time. If this is the problem, you can usually break it loose = by putting the car on a flat paved surface, and put it in gear. While = holding the clutch pedal all the way down to the floor, and your other = foot on the brake pedal, start the car. A variation on this is to start = the car in gear, then while cruising along, push the clutch pedal and = break pedal both at once, as hard as you can push (for the brake pedal). >=20 > Another technique is to hook a strong chain to a strong point on the = frame of the MG, and get a big car (i.e. SUV) to tow it with. Again on = a flat paved surface, put the car in gear and hold the clutch pedal all = the way down, then start pulling. This will usually break it loose. = Good luck. >=20 > Jack Wheeler >=20 > From: Mike Duvall via Mgs > To: mgs@autox.team.net=20 > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 5:45 PM > Subject: [Mgs] clutch question >=20 > My MGA keeps getting harder and harder to shift. I was wondering if = the synchronizers are going bad. Lately it seems like the clutch isn=92t = disengaging like their was air in the lines but the hydraulics were = fine. Then no clutch at all (sitting at home instead of the road = thankfully) The slave appeared to be moving adequately so I pulled it = off and I have all sorts of play in the arm. I put a wrench on the arm = and it won=92t release the clutch. I can use a flashlight and see the = throw out bearing move back and forth. >=20 > I=92m assuming I have a bad bearing on the arm. Any other ideas or = suggestions for me before I pull the engine?=20 --Apple-Mail=_0BFEE158-58E7-499F-BEC4-7A4DF466A252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252
I = last drove it 4 weeks ago,  could it freeze up that fast?   If = it were frozen, would that account for the not being able to move the = clutch cover?   I would think so.  

I = was thinking the shaft bushings might be so worn, I=92m not getting the = right = leverage. 




On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com> = wrote:

If you are sure the = release bearing is being pushed into the clutch pressure plate the = normal distance (i.e. 1/2" or so), your clutch disc could be stuck to = the flywheel?  This sometimes happens when a car sits for a long = time.  If this is the problem, you can usually break it loose by = putting the car on a flat paved surface, and put it in gear.  While = holding the clutch pedal all the way down to the floor, and your other = foot on the brake pedal, start the car.  A variation on this is to = start the car in gear, then while cruising along, push the clutch pedal = and break pedal both at once, as hard as you can push (for the brake = pedal).

Another technique is to hook a = strong chain to a strong point on the frame of the MG, and get a big car = (i.e. SUV) to tow it with.  Again on a flat paved surface, put the = car in gear and hold the clutch pedal all the way down, then start = pulling.  This will usually break it loose.  Good = luck.

Jack Wheeler

From: Mike = Duvall via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
= To: mgs@autox.team.net
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 = 5:45 PM
Subject: = [Mgs] clutch question

My = MGA keeps getting harder and harder to shift.  I was wondering if = the synchronizers are going bad.  Lately it seems like the clutch = isn=92t disengaging like their was air in the lines but the hydraulics = were fine.  Then no clutch at all (sitting at home instead of the = road thankfully)  The slave appeared to be moving adequately so I = pulled it off and I have all sorts of play in the arm.  I put a = wrench on the arm and it won=92t release the clutch.  I can use a = flashlight and see the throw out bearing move back and forth.

I=92m= assuming I have a bad bearing on the arm.  Any other ideas or = suggestions for me before I pull the engine? =

= --Apple-Mail=_0BFEE158-58E7-499F-BEC4-7A4DF466A252-- --===============0278789951758442762== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============0278789951758442762==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 23 22:36:24 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D06258BD06 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 22:36:24 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com (mail-ob0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41E4258BC58 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 22:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obkg7 with SMTP id g7so103104760obk.3 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:36:20 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=IJuifbT1FI50z1a2jXaLZ6hpYy6BAMA2PIHjfdjV1EM=; b=c8eyRi6XOe1/xsoVlqXc66vBpsHC4iYKyRqOv/s6w+twuj3yGWpCjrSEeG9a7UjWP+ RZYxzArNAz4T7e2sbaVr5Q0AwJe3fr7JTRrksAS9FWtgxZGgj7lJB2JZV2tWNEZ7U6XZ +6WQxOl8iGhIDfD3qsi12IiREVFMwYooJm+tQ2dCWKXvU7kILdZKqStZRO8j2sDCqaHa SHJVCoI6KblmFqov8wD1nF05bzf6l6tpjWxacZz1D1s1YViqr+mdiWzovWOlDQfAJLHC w9LtfnDZINqmR27CrhgyS0chlm8VsgG24ftD1eUmA24WVvQ01lszB0KqN83+3VwlKtrE PEyA== Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.24.69 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:36:20 -0700 To: MGS Subject: [Mgs] Ken Costello From: Simon Matthews via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11819082/Ken-Costello-motor-engineer-obituary.html _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 04:05:11 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CBE258B9FA for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 04:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-6.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-6.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.70]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E846258B4B6 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 04:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-6-imp with bizsmtp id 8Yjf1r00H4LtS4201Yjfi0; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:43:40 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=Zo8o9212OsslxTbiBCwA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=noSV_s4zxXT0-xXC4jcA:9 a=CY8pappR-yaOP2XM:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: "Mike Duvall" References: <94ACAFCB-E6F3-446F-81B2-690F28764A67@duvallvideo.com> <71088165.6086690.1440374743414.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:25:46 +0100 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2463503119513190429== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01D0DE4E.DB897B20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01D0DE4E.DB897B20 charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When it 'freezes' the pressure plate inside the cover plate (not the = cover plate itself which is bolted to the flywheel) still moves, but the = friction plate remains stuck to either the flywheel or the pressure = plate. You said it was getting harder and harder to change, if it were frozen = you wouldn't be able to select any gear at a standstill, and it would = grind horribly in any unsynchronised gear. I've never heard of a clutch = gradually freezing while still be able to use it. How much slave piston travel are you getting? The MGB for example needs = about 1/2". That reduces as you get wear in the pedal to master = linkage, and causes the biting point to move towards the floor. As you = say air in the hydraulics causes the same thing. But if the pedal = pushes the slave push-rod out a reasonable amount, and it goes back in = when you release the pedal, that shows there is still pressure from the = clutch springs acting through the release bearing and release arm as = normal, which implies the clutch itself may be OK. Does it grind when trying to select an unsynchronised gear? If so then = it is a clutch problem, but if not then it is a gear selection problem. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Duvall via Mgs=20 To: Jack Wheeler=20 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question I last drove it 4 weeks ago, could it freeze up that fast? If it = were frozen, would that account for the not being able to move the = clutch cover? I would think so. =20 I was thinking the shaft bushings might be so worn, I=92m not getting = the right leverage.=20 On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Jack Wheeler = wrote: If you are sure the release bearing is being pushed into the clutch = pressure plate the normal distance (i.e. 1/2" or so), your clutch disc = could be stuck to the flywheel? This sometimes happens when a car sits = for a long time. If this is the problem, you can usually break it loose = by putting the car on a flat paved surface, and put it in gear. While = holding the clutch pedal all the way down to the floor, and your other = foot on the brake pedal, start the car. A variation on this is to start = the car in gear, then while cruising along, push the clutch pedal and = break pedal both at once, as hard as you can push (for the brake pedal). Another technique is to hook a strong chain to a strong point on the = frame of the MG, and get a big car (i.e. SUV) to tow it with. Again on = a flat paved surface, put the car in gear and hold the clutch pedal all = the way down, then start pulling. This will usually break it loose. = Good luck. Jack Wheeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Mike Duvall via Mgs To: mgs@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 5:45 PM Subject: [Mgs] clutch question My MGA keeps getting harder and harder to shift. I was wondering if = the synchronizers are going bad. Lately it seems like the clutch = isn=92t disengaging like their was air in the lines but the hydraulics = were fine. Then no clutch at all (sitting at home instead of the road = thankfully) The slave appeared to be moving adequately so I pulled it = off and I have all sorts of play in the arm. I put a wrench on the arm = and it won=92t release the clutch. I can use a flashlight and see the = throw out bearing move back and forth. I=92m assuming I have a bad bearing on the arm. Any other ideas or = suggestions for me before I pull the engine?=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulhunt73@virginmedia.com ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01D0DE4E.DB897B20 charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
When it 'freezes' the pressure plate inside the = cover plate=20 (not the cover plate itself which is bolted to the flywheel) still = moves, but=20 the friction plate remains stuck to either the flywheel or the pressure=20 plate.
 
You said it was getting harder and harder to = change, if=20 it were frozen you wouldn't be able to select any gear at a standstill, = and it=20 would grind horribly in any unsynchronised gear.  I've never heard = of a=20 clutch gradually freezing while still be able to use it.
 
How much slave piston travel are you getting?  = The MGB=20 for example needs about 1/2".  That reduces as you get wear in the = pedal to=20 master linkage, and causes the biting point to move towards the = floor.  As=20 you say air in the hydraulics causes the same thing.  But if the = pedal=20 pushes the slave push-rod out a reasonable amount, and it goes back in = when you=20 release the pedal, that shows there is still pressure from the clutch = springs=20 acting through the release bearing and release arm as normal, which = implies the=20 clutch itself may be OK.
 
Does it grind when trying to select an = unsynchronised=20 gear?  If so then it is a clutch problem, but if not then it is a = gear=20 selection problem.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mike = Duvall via=20 Mgs
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 = 3:09=20 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch = question

I last drove it 4 weeks ago,  could it freeze up that fast? =  =20 If it were frozen, would that account for the not being able to move = the=20 clutch cover?   I would think so.  

I was thinking the shaft bushings might be so worn, I=92m not = getting the=20 right leverage. 




On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com>=20 wrote:

If you are sure the = release bearing=20 is being pushed into the clutch pressure plate the normal distance = (i.e.=20 1/2" or so), your clutch disc could be stuck to the flywheel?  = This=20 sometimes happens when a car sits for a long time.  If this is = the=20 problem, you can usually break it loose by putting the car on a flat = paved=20 surface, and put it in gear.  While holding the clutch pedal = all the=20 way down to the floor, and your other foot on the brake pedal, start = the=20 car.  A variation on this is to start the car in gear, then = while=20 cruising along, push the clutch pedal and break pedal both at once, = as hard=20 as you can push (for the brake pedal).

Another technique is to = hook a=20 strong chain to a strong point on the frame of the MG, and get a big = car=20 (i.e. SUV) to tow it with.  Again on a flat paved surface, put = the car=20 in gear and hold the clutch pedal all the way down, then start=20 pulling.  This will usually break it loose.  Good = luck.

Jack Wheeler

From:=20 Mike Duvall via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
To: mgs@autox.team.net =
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 = 5:45=20 PM
Subject: [Mgs] = clutch=20 question

My MGA=20 keeps getting harder and harder to shift.  I was wondering if = the=20 synchronizers are going bad.  Lately it seems like the clutch = isn=92t=20 disengaging like their was air in the lines but the hydraulics were=20 fine.  Then no clutch at all (sitting at home instead of the = road=20 thankfully)  The slave appeared to be moving adequately so I = pulled it=20 off and I have all sorts of play in the arm.  I put a wrench on = the arm=20 and it won=92t release the clutch.  I can use a flashlight and = see the=20 throw out bearing move back and forth.

I=92m assuming I have = a bad=20 bearing on the arm.  Any other ideas or suggestions for me = before I=20 pull the engine?

=

_______________________________________________

Mgs@autox.t= eam.net
Donate:=20 http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation =20 $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:=20 http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:=20 = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulhunt73@virginmedia.com
<= /BLOCKQUOTE> ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01D0DE4E.DB897B20-- --===============2463503119513190429== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============2463503119513190429==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 07:41:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03834258BA18 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 07:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp107.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (smtp107.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.244.55]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B97F258B917 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 07:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 52934 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2015 13:41:46 -0000 t=1440423706; bh=1fw86/tmTKj1sjIWorQH1gD9/gUXrKPBUY/t8KJElgk=; h=Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Message-Id:References:To; b=rdUsW5d/NJv+csBRM1w8bPjBKOCrprnVQguaso6PH6LEV9gJ9Xch3OcOC98cioCzfNpbEgDtrQdqSWBXiXZM2vO0PTpx9ILWXvSV4e3WZjf2A2ZIvj4hHp10hnVWdDLI0NHmjgaa0EBM4f0kkBXKi57kCpZ+DoH1dMiEK+tXxHs= XiqDIjWM2OtuAtGn0gYvKv.dXzzlLBTgNiWFbs3n34Jewm1RFfkjgcTdR_86 5Dqni62Fa1OOiqGxZ9uiGK_UsapNgVhSCw6P18A.2OyWBR3ycEcSX.rJBboE RNyTiNbkCSIoIj6opoC3cAV8w8EkgrC6It3Q4mwm.0FwfZaZS3JO5NID2asT C2Jy.ec3wqBMARaqoa.bF85if3b41HXmlKs5WY.s.vWqjvbZc9912Voxsq7k S2xOR0Yy1E4TekL4c0.kJlAQhdjGks2d9ys2N2BwkaVX1GhOVmnHB84dw3Xi Uzvr0j01FaW0zeX6FMHCmbAv_ID9RYWItNxziJ7KSOgjXDRdkodgROZUIEj2 iyUjQYptFmQh3Gbgy6qCendeaZdVaOiYtiwLODpGGS.qIW1hCMkF.qJFWe4N ZzcCL3CE1wrmttqfhVx_YB.gplENlZFzXuFFDZM0j2LLWhnD5uo3aSD_sipi w0Pv2HjwB6w.nEQBzxrDmOYZAypM.Nap0 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 08:41:43 -0500 References: <94ACAFCB-E6F3-446F-81B2-690F28764A67@duvallvideo.com> <71088165.6086690.1440374743414.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> To: PaulHunt73 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: Mike Duvall via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3359384828095791596== --Apple-Mail=_80714CE5-60C5-4CCD-94C6-24BBDA2AAA7F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252 As I push the pedal in and out there is no resistance and the slave = moves in and out freely. (I thought at first I lost hydraulics)=20 It grinds in every gear like the clutch hasn=92t been pushed in.=20 =20 On Aug 24, 2015, at 3:25 AM, PaulHunt73 = wrote: > When it 'freezes' the pressure plate inside the cover plate (not the = cover plate itself which is bolted to the flywheel) still moves, but the = friction plate remains stuck to either the flywheel or the pressure = plate. > =20 > You said it was getting harder and harder to change, if it were frozen = you wouldn't be able to select any gear at a standstill, and it would = grind horribly in any unsynchronised gear. I've never heard of a clutch = gradually freezing while still be able to use it. > =20 > How much slave piston travel are you getting? The MGB for example = needs about 1/2". That reduces as you get wear in the pedal to master = linkage, and causes the biting point to move towards the floor. As you = say air in the hydraulics causes the same thing. But if the pedal = pushes the slave push-rod out a reasonable amount, and it goes back in = when you release the pedal, that shows there is still pressure from the = clutch springs acting through the release bearing and release arm as = normal, which implies the clutch itself may be OK. > =20 > Does it grind when trying to select an unsynchronised gear? If so = then it is a clutch problem, but if not then it is a gear selection = problem. > =20 > PaulH. > =20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Duvall via Mgs > To: Jack Wheeler > Cc: mgs@autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 3:09 AM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question >=20 > I last drove it 4 weeks ago, could it freeze up that fast? If it = were frozen, would that account for the not being able to move the = clutch cover? I would think so. =20 >=20 > I was thinking the shaft bushings might be so worn, I=92m not getting = the right leverage.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Jack Wheeler = wrote: >=20 >> If you are sure the release bearing is being pushed into the clutch = pressure plate the normal distance (i.e. 1/2" or so), your clutch disc = could be stuck to the flywheel? This sometimes happens when a car sits = for a long time. If this is the problem, you can usually break it loose = by putting the car on a flat paved surface, and put it in gear. While = holding the clutch pedal all the way down to the floor, and your other = foot on the brake pedal, start the car. A variation on this is to start = the car in gear, then while cruising along, push the clutch pedal and = break pedal both at once, as hard as you can push (for the brake pedal). >>=20 >> Another technique is to hook a strong chain to a strong point on the = frame of the MG, and get a big car (i.e. SUV) to tow it with. Again on = a flat paved surface, put the car in gear and hold the clutch pedal all = the way down, then start pulling. This will usually break it loose. = Good luck. >>=20 >> Jack Wheeler >>=20 >> From: Mike Duvall via Mgs >> To: mgs@autox.team.net=20 >> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 5:45 PM >> Subject: [Mgs] clutch question >>=20 >> My MGA keeps getting harder and harder to shift. I was wondering if = the synchronizers are going bad. Lately it seems like the clutch isn=92t = disengaging like their was air in the lines but the hydraulics were = fine. Then no clutch at all (sitting at home instead of the road = thankfully) The slave appeared to be moving adequately so I pulled it = off and I have all sorts of play in the arm. I put a wrench on the arm = and it won=92t release the clutch. I can use a flashlight and see the = throw out bearing move back and forth. >>=20 >> I=92m assuming I have a bad bearing on the arm. Any other ideas or = suggestions for me before I pull the engine?=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Mgs@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulhunt73@virginmedia.com --Apple-Mail=_80714CE5-60C5-4CCD-94C6-24BBDA2AAA7F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252

As I push the pedal in and out = there is no resistance and the slave moves in and out freely.  (I = thought at first I lost hydraulics) 

It = grinds in every gear like the clutch hasn=92t been pushed = in. 

 


On Aug 24, 2015, at 3:25 AM, PaulHunt73 <paulhunt73@virginmedia.com&= gt; wrote:

When it 'freezes' the pressure = plate inside the cover plate (not the cover plate itself which is bolted = to the flywheel) still moves, but the friction plate remains stuck to = either the flywheel or the pressure plate.
 
You said it was = getting harder and harder to change, if it were frozen you wouldn't be = able to select any gear at a standstill, and it would grind horribly in = any unsynchronised gear.  I've never heard of a clutch gradually = freezing while still be able to use it.
 
How much slave = piston travel are you getting?  The MGB for example needs about = 1/2".  That reduces as you get wear in the pedal to master linkage, = and causes the biting point to move towards the floor.  As you say = air in the hydraulics causes the same thing.  But if the pedal = pushes the slave push-rod out a reasonable amount, and it goes back in = when you release the pedal, that shows there is still pressure from the = clutch springs acting through the release bearing and release arm as = normal, which implies the clutch itself may be = OK.
 
Does it grind when trying to select an unsynchronised = gear?  If so then it is a clutch problem, but if not then it is a = gear selection problem.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 = 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch = question

I last drove it 4 weeks ago, =  could it freeze up that fast?   If it were frozen, would that = account for the not being able to move the clutch cover?   I would = think so.  

I was thinking the shaft = bushings might be so worn, I=92m not getting the right = leverage. 




On Aug 23, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com> = wrote:

If you = are sure the release bearing is being pushed into the clutch pressure = plate the normal distance (i.e. 1/2" or so), your clutch disc could be = stuck to the flywheel?  This sometimes happens when a car sits for = a long time.  If this is the problem, you can usually break it = loose by putting the car on a flat paved surface, and put it in = gear.  While holding the clutch pedal all the way down to the = floor, and your other foot on the brake pedal, start the car.  A = variation on this is to start the car in gear, then while cruising = along, push the clutch pedal and break pedal both at once, as hard as = you can push (for the brake pedal).

Another technique is to hook a = strong chain to a strong point on the frame of the MG, and get a big car = (i.e. SUV) to tow it with.  Again on a flat paved surface, put the = car in gear and hold the clutch pedal all the way down, then start = pulling.  This will usually break it loose.  Good = luck.

Jack Wheeler

From: Mike Duvall via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
To: mgs@autox.team.net 
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 = 5:45 PM
Subject: [Mgs] clutch = question

My MGA keeps getting harder and harder to = shift.  I was wondering if the synchronizers are going bad.  = Lately it seems like the clutch isn=92t disengaging like their was air = in the lines but the hydraulics were fine.  Then no clutch at all = (sitting at home instead of the road thankfully)  The slave = appeared to be moving adequately so I pulled it off and I have all sorts = of play in the arm.  I put a wrench on the arm and it won=92t = release the clutch.  I can use a flashlight and see the throw out = bearing move back and forth.

I=92m assuming I have a bad bearing = on the arm.  Any other ideas or suggestions for me before I pull = the engine? 
<= /blockquote>


_________________________________= ______________

Mgs@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Fo= rums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsu= bscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulhunt73@virginmedia.com

= --Apple-Mail=_80714CE5-60C5-4CCD-94C6-24BBDA2AAA7F-- --===============3359384828095791596== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============3359384828095791596==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 08:37:10 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EC4258B5B8 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 08:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-6.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-6.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.70]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE2D258B533 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 08:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-6-imp with bizsmtp id 8eb21r00D4LtS4201eb24d; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:35:03 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=9rMQclzI8bkON2QO_BAA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=VGxG94oaAAAA:8 a=I2VE6l-P2b8-MbFFhNIA:9 a=wRBiT-9htAhB0_Tm:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: "Mike Duvall" References: <94ACAFCB-E6F3-446F-81B2-690F28764A67@duvallvideo.com> <71088165.6086690.1440374743414.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <96BC54CE-5267-48E9-B3EE-EB3FABEFD732@duvallvideo.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:11:44 +0100 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============6366704951206604645== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01D0DE7F.3012DDA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01D0DE7F.3012DDA0 charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MGA must be different to MGB then. In that it's only the clutch cover = springs (that grip the friction plate between pressure plate and = flywheel and so give drive) that push the release arm back and the = push-rod and piston into the slave cylinder as you release the pedal. = Maybe someone has fitted a pull-off spring to the release arm to protect = the release bearing, or maybe the MGA has one anyway. If it has suddenly gone very light, and grinds in all gears, then the = release bearing or something associated with it has broken, and the = engine will have to be separated from the gearbox. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Duvall=20 To: PaulHunt73=20 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question As I push the pedal in and out there is no resistance and the slave = moves in and out freely. (I thought at first I lost hydraulics)=20 It grinds in every gear like the clutch hasn=92t been pushed in. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01D0DE7F.3012DDA0 charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MGA must be different to MGB then.  In that = it's only the=20 clutch cover springs (that grip the friction plate between pressure = plate and=20 flywheel and so give drive) that push the release arm back and the = push-rod and=20 piston into the slave cylinder as you release the pedal.  Maybe = someone has=20 fitted a pull-off spring to the release arm to protect the release = bearing, or=20 maybe the MGA has one anyway.
 
If it has suddenly gone very light, and grinds in = all gears,=20 then the release bearing or something associated with it has broken, and = the=20 engine will have to be separated from the gearbox.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mike=20 Duvall
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 = 2:41=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch = question


As I push the pedal in and out there is no resistance and the = slave moves=20 in and out freely.  (I thought at first I lost = hydraulics) 

It grinds in every gear like the clutch hasn=92t been pushed=20 in. 
------=_NextPart_000_004C_01D0DE7F.3012DDA0-- --===============6366704951206604645== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============6366704951206604645==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 09:44:03 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1793D258B27B for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp107.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (smtp107.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.244.55]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5394B258B261 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:43:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 54365 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2015 15:44:01 -0000 t=1440431041; bh=qnR8jKvkApKqiTyl0Cne9MQLWnxDOfcA2xrqZfoiUos=; h=Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Message-Id:References:To; b=hgS+uuZSxUmOoFjUXzRstutwQGeYVig5kD/3ZCdO1dmftKJXB0xcx3FdU7iQ8a6o7rZPKMjUqlxzjffHPde5C/q7kVjn4aw/Tt7J7cwVpxETClTn7R18TnmYf1+SWrlDi92N+dSr2oue2lOwr8LNW9aQa4Sll5EPDAQEQQ3bDRo= Pz9TSFkoDF4DSxRrIWgV92mmPA4LdG6SLuoHpmorQYFUwKf3vwMPLstD2q_F jkRz3jl0QXy1YBzzltqgt7A.rj3BFQ39vyT9AUefBOD6k8Hi.zJ0OpVESZQM xESzKA3e3LTlicx2SBbuY7zzP4Opbdi3v6mQ_3.ewK_6EYa9IQKHo5KmdyV0 gzqMaDxnPJ6UY.NEybvm3L4mpprtCX16VSPdL01bn0ZqNuuyHioT9zVybze2 9qlbO8n83bP4uPe.CWUFMuPBqr.oYMgUDV2A5g6o.3s9JU85DxdJ5XjCTgWT aYiHaFqtKPEZCVswrUGoZ5YKmKGXMyDg2GMfhLWNXuQVz5DhtYYIUoeCBzKg 9JdexjBGbl2aUOjN1xkQG3aScfBliGrxelS5R8P0ZADUp7UBRa5C9PB2oAoa cRkTPrJllmnZu30BSlLS1Ib2r.yLbkzJCU.B5tdF6SgpafTuIl3HrL_IQ1SZ 4OZ16Z05rCGn4C5FUmCqSY6jECbjaPoxBScEdQh235Ch6zKxdhAoBq5w- Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:43:58 -0500 References: <94ACAFCB-E6F3-446F-81B2-690F28764A67@duvallvideo.com> <71088165.6086690.1440374743414.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <96BC54CE-5267-48E9-B3EE-EB3FABEFD732@duvallvideo.com> To: PaulHunt73 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: Mike Duvall via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1099460020522744185== --Apple-Mail=_00D96683-8C0F-4594-9A37-A5CE9C1015AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252 The release arm simply flops back and forth when the slave cylinder is = removed. When I say the slave moves in and out, I just mean it = travels without a problem not that it returns on its own. It does = return a little but not fully. I assume the pedal spring causes the = hydraulics to suck the piston in a little.=20 Thanks all, I guess I have a big project ahead and I should examine = the transmission while I have it out. =20 Mike On Aug 24, 2015, at 9:11 AM, PaulHunt73 = wrote: > MGA must be different to MGB then. In that it's only the clutch cover = springs (that grip the friction plate between pressure plate and = flywheel and so give drive) that push the release arm back and the = push-rod and piston into the slave cylinder as you release the pedal. = Maybe someone has fitted a pull-off spring to the release arm to protect = the release bearing, or maybe the MGA has one anyway. > =20 > If it has suddenly gone very light, and grinds in all gears, then the = release bearing or something associated with it has broken, and the = engine will have to be separated from the gearbox. > =20 > PaulH. > =20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Duvall > To: PaulHunt73 > Cc: mgs@autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question >=20 >=20 > As I push the pedal in and out there is no resistance and the slave = moves in and out freely. (I thought at first I lost hydraulics)=20 >=20 > It grinds in every gear like the clutch hasn=92t been pushed in.=20 --Apple-Mail=_00D96683-8C0F-4594-9A37-A5CE9C1015AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252
The  release arm simply flops back and = forth when the slave cylinder is removed.   When I say the slave = moves in and out,  I just mean it travels without a problem not = that it returns on its own.  It does return a little but not fully. =   I assume the pedal spring causes the hydraulics to suck the = piston in a little. 

Thanks all,  I = guess  I have a big project ahead and I should examine the = transmission while I have it out. =   

Mike



On Aug 24, 2015, at 9:11 AM, PaulHunt73 <paulhunt73@virginmedia.com&= gt; wrote:

MGA must be different to MGB = then.  In that it's only the clutch cover springs (that grip the = friction plate between pressure plate and flywheel and so give drive) = that push the release arm back and the push-rod and piston into the = slave cylinder as you release the pedal.  Maybe someone has fitted = a pull-off spring to the release arm to protect the release bearing, or = maybe the MGA has one = anyway.


=

 
If it has suddenly gone very light, and grinds in all gears, = then the release bearing or something associated with it has broken, and = the engine will have to be separated from the = gearbox.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 = 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch = question


As I push the pedal in = and out there is no resistance and the slave moves in and out freely. =  (I thought at first I lost = hydraulics) 

It grinds in every gear like = the clutch hasn=92t been pushed = in. 

= --Apple-Mail=_00D96683-8C0F-4594-9A37-A5CE9C1015AA-- --===============1099460020522744185== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============1099460020522744185==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 12:23:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DDE258B6CE for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:23:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.39]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A07258B574 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8iH91r0022Fh1PH01iKFnx; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:19:15 +0000 Received: from resmail-ch2-322v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.49.101]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8iKF1r00b2Azwqi01iKFN7; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:19:15 +0000 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:19:15 +0000 (UTC) To: mgs@autox.team.net References: <94ACAFCB-E6F3-446F-81B2-690F28764A67@duvallvideo.com> <71088165.6086690.1440374743414.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <96BC54CE-5267-48E9-B3EE-EB3FABEFD732@duvallvideo.com> Thread-Topic: clutch question Thread-Index: AXv6B+RiRykoh5pLzwIGKydJQWwavg== s=q20140121; t=1440440355; bh=Jv5a1HaOCFVCn3xqHwP/ZdYOUewcZLPoBRa4ejGIheM=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=G733oNO1WxWBljS0PPfZvEH4pB+6SD59M7pMbhxhO29ziEqIqKLWXtEUDVAnDXHQQ NhNCvwWgDLlB6QUCftuqmfS7xLLoHBJZaRFRMw3euPHPlv1xqTH72E8bD1BAHdfciF zNdyWWjvgG/X2OPlLvQvTPOOy2gzp4BZGD56wHgc/1Yex+YsgfEra9jWx2hZRFTgs/ H/ARR2Gk9iP+Ro/iiYRcur19ckMSZlN+t3nEB1q9d7UaV+S9gw7nVnB14syPS+zmUr QjZVr+tG0JPGhm0BTc8c6HOt0zaZ8BMUf1S6hiIW3HJwBPD6B3y9/PykwJ+tAHzBL0 ic0Flwo737i5Q== Cc: Mike Duvall Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: Gordie Bird via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0964975239416959910== boundary="----=_Part_6222848_976492140.1440440355250" ------=_Part_6222848_976492140.1440440355250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the MGA and MGB clutch assys are nearly identical. Sounds to me like the pr= oblem is a worn throwout bearing.=20 Unfortunately, replacement requires removal of engine.=20 gb=20 '62 MGA=20 ----- Original Message ----- MGA must be different to MGB then. In that it's only the clutch cover sprin= gs (that grip the friction plate between pressure plate and flywheel and so= give drive) that push the release arm back and the push-rod and piston int= o the slave cylinder as you release the pedal. Maybe someone has fitted a p= ull-off spring to the release arm to protect the release bearing, or maybe = the MGA has one anyway.=20 If it has suddenly gone very light, and grinds in all gears, then the relea= se bearing or something associated with it has broken, and the engine will = have to be separated from the gearbox.=20 PaulH.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Duvall=20 To: PaulHunt73=20 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net=20 Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:41 PM=20 Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question=20 As I push the pedal in and out there is no resistance and the slave moves i= n and out freely. (I thought at first I lost hydraulics)=20 It grinds in every gear like the clutch hasn=E2=80=99t been pushed in.=20 _______________________________________________=20 Mgs@autox.team.net=20 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=20 Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage@comcast.ne= t=20 ------=_Part_6222848_976492140.1440440355250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
the MGA and MGB clutch assys are nearly identical.  Sounds to= me like the problem is a worn throwout bearing.
Unfortunatel= y, replacement requires removal of engine.

gb<= br>
'62 MGA



MGA must be different to MGB then.  In that it's only the= =20 clutch cover springs (that grip the friction plate between pressure plate a= nd=20 flywheel and so give drive) that push the release arm back and the push-rod= and=20 piston into the slave cylinder as you release the pedal.  Maybe someon= e has=20 fitted a pull-off spring to the release arm to protect the release bearing,= or=20 maybe the MGA has one anyway.
 
If it has suddenly gone very light, and grinds in all gears,=20 then the release bearing or something associated with it has broken, and th= e=20 engine will have to be separated from the gearbox.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
<= b>From:=20 Mike=20 Duvall
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 2:41= =20 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question=


As I push the pedal in and out there is no resistance and the slave = moves=20 in and out freely.  (I thought at first I lost hydraulics) 

It grinds in every gear like the clutch hasn=E2=80=99t been pushed= =20 in. 

_______________________________________________

Mgs@a= utox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annua= l donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: = http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/op= tions/mgs/mg_garage@comcast.net

------=_Part_6222848_976492140.1440440355250-- --===============0964975239416959910== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============0964975239416959910==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 14:26:11 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9B6258A0C2 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from omr-m004.mx.aol.com (omr-m004e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.4]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4141258A0C2 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:26:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaomg-aal01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aal01.mx.aol.com [172.27.20.207]) by omr-m004.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 15BE438001F5; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-lja08d.mail.aol.com (core-lja08.mail.aol.com [10.76.9.8]) by mtaomg-aal01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 4375A38000086; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 45.47.235.97 by webprd-m61.mail.aol.com (10.74.5.49) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:26:06 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:26:06 -0400 To: mike@duvallvideo.com, jwheeler1947@yahoo.com x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20150623; t=1440447969; bh=8OTkSmdkPUHwY7QGeqnhl4l2+vOHP4WIRthqtv6ph0U=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iM02k1RXQSZ7Wbh9r6XclC6be+y4eVYwMfqCKJNb5RQyG6VfxErXZbg4nbi+P3MH4 GIx+WDffaQl2/MrmyoDv4q5rbYEZ5RrAyzawBZ6GPjl6OvxtbWuwRGMgiDrv686N2p d3DzpWJV1i0duZ3DFdeAVSZA06ouTzc3JzuMRC4c= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b14cf55db7de03c0f Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question From: Alan Kellogg via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3193369134561067033== boundary="----=_Part_85754_1821929719.1440447966905" ------=_Part_85754_1821929719.1440447966905 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had a similar problem and my more knowledgeable friend was convinced and = convinced me it was hydraulics to the extent I replaced everything includin= g the master cylinder and then bled the system again and again and etc. Fi= nally pulled the engine and examined the clutch. lever bolt and bushing we= ar caused uneven pressure on the throwout bearing which eventually caused n= otches to wear in the release levers creating a mechanical stop, and a prog= ressive lack of operation as you describe. Alan =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Mike Duvall via Mgs To: Jack Wheeler Cc: mgs Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2015 2:43 pm Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question =20 I last drove it 4 weeks ago, could it freeze up that fast? If it were fr= ozen, would that account for the not being able to move the clutch cover? = I would think so. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I was thinking the shaft bushings might be so worn, I=E2=80=99m not getting= the right leverage. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_Part_85754_1821929719.1440447966905 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I had a similar problem and my more knowledgeable friend was= convinced and convinced me it was hydraulics to the extent I replaced ever= ything including the master cylinder and then bled the system again and aga= in and etc.  Finally pulled the engine and examined the clutch.  = lever bolt and bushing wear caused uneven pressure on the throwout bearing = which eventually caused notches to wear in the release levers creating a me= chanical stop, and a progressive lack of operation as you describe.<= /div>
 
Alan
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Duvall via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
To: Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com>
Cc: mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2015 2:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Mgs] clutch question

=20
I last drove it 4 weeks ago,  could it freeze up that fast?   If = it were frozen, would that account for the not being able to move the clutc= h cover?   I would think so.  
=20

=20
I was thinking the shaft bushings might be so worn, I=E2=80=99m not getting= the right leverage. 
=20

=20

=20
=20

=20

 
------=_Part_85754_1821929719.1440447966905-- --===============3193369134561067033== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============3193369134561067033==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 25 13:32:57 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FEF2589D17 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp101.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (smtp101.biz.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.221.60]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2262588AF8 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27213 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2015 19:28:35 -0000 t=1440530915; bh=GFpyJHLAAvbfXoCm9iUqOXGFigG8nupx7S3cRqc5ZaI=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=KmUw56d3PaayyTh3WbWhwxFoa1/ECsdWbBK77aR3Sp6aj1gOWgCSYAup9+kHvVk46niCJaRAGTEr47Ndk/p045+uloClFFw/yUSFWsH1qmCHHC0FX4eOHNLGpaqtYmJyB+TDdKqDpoGt5x83WU+OAein7Re1TE6I4b/qqO/Aco0= ug4xcv2XXX2S8JbXfpsQr2xFfH.CEquLwW1APQ_w0kjYTQ3L03DRFVwn79Og Fx4FpkCILOgmPyKAR8bmzkTol5tMRA9VQDZVXmEiks4CWFmlECa18fMTRIia zEFIM.iCSSUk3dG52BUgpz.WDsMkNzMZNEteV4YGqjHY21pXSgU9GjuwfVAF GtZodLqnjpysrXJtEY9hNm4QbhI5udeAjeJYdf36z61knMCqkxC_onEvsu2p 1lKf.HIoiktwN8_W_N4TOt83vZl6gjMg5WYiYx3NI0hP.0o4UUYxzbtkrVAs pboYCy7EbQVu19OTdEx46uC7MNn2Xfd2yQU.JDqVJWIW8wcQhVyP_wVa4aZ. r0_oZcJDVOFzq_mX3yp5z.O0_PKpbhdLWiW8iJbbWfgMCO1tphBbCw2hvwpl 5LbdXrqpHpmNZou6EiJAaBApEjHJep7XS77xtDnI6wsTaguDoJhqNrrvZ1iI cvPrxeNrCkTKwT2Hg7xllwPbKQmaSR2Si.pKwU0jS7lM- Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:28:32 -0500 References: To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] old Moss Motors catalog From: Mike Duvall via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Anyone have old Moss Motors catalogs from the 70s or 80s? _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 25 14:03:15 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2C22589084 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:03:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plwbeout06-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp06-03-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [97.74.135.58]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E48F2589DBB for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:02:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost ([97.74.135.116]) by p3plwbeout06-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with bizsmtp id 982M1r0022Wr24H0182MwW; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:02:23 -0700 Received: (qmail 5673 invoked by uid 99); 25 Aug 2015 20:02:21 -0000 To: mgs@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:02:21 -0700 User-Agent: MailAPI Subject: Re: [Mgs] old Moss Motors catalog From: dave northrup via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net I do. What do you need? I was going to ebay them. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Mgs] old Moss Motors catalog From: Mike Duvall via Mgs Date: 2015 8 25 2:33 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net CC: Anyone have old Moss Motors catalogs from the 70s or 80s? _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/dave@ranteer.com _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 25 14:09:02 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE872589E7C for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:09:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from nm9-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm9-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.247]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44334258946E for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:08:42 -0600 (MDT) t=1440533326; bh=pPwaHfbBQUuWEew682MxrWb91LOe2iBK6nRza5wjvPA=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=mq+iw0UoCSmbfotk1aWQD7o7Yc2YeWZwkXvCPOqc9GVSAW5Xj4CrNGVu451o7Er6u4qxG1cOzTqcf4V4VGb8rXAcjaOVpTahR9uPQGFJlNzDS4cRunROxjXKbSs8GSL8//Pyx8wKtthOMwwnq5rOe7dF1iIrj+7cYGvQZyqtLkaBI7yA40T+kuJRmqufjBdTzvhIGpzzzeqy4Iulh4Kktoq6kFdN9AuMH1WEo6rMCURJCoLLjXHZPQY4+TY3SBR3q/5gqrP3hGPMuuM3wj2QJjIJph9ZpGhGNV8DCLWPvxprpFPTxO0ltIzrUKkH0dyTfWj3/Xe2eAQLt+vW2aoCAA== Received: from [216.39.60.172] by nm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2015 20:08:46 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.98] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2015 20:08:46 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2015 20:08:46 -0000 5gsgEtob2G3Y7ZX6haisVO37OnrLD1z_ah.85pk3rljGF9KeIbQentJSZnhQ mMpbQUx3s_KlC5zMvRsvmDeBRSwxFIVm0HMKpddfxj6eYXic7rECbjFWHm4k KP1jhqsgytJp8G5yvWiB9EFB3fgcIjCtSD8h_n4Qcclav98oJ8tutCQpy4tS 0RIBx5Vj5sTM6eqNk5ZviECRgakiidtSSCP32b8zysiv1eu6rD3qeAPZ0tMg tLNgUVaM7dNNw.33S58fwxrx_EZjF7TJleEgPapcegtopOflCNg.AZESSMAC L5Q6WdzWsumqo7j_EdDmn1K5MtJson3FF.nkgX1xzccYTvOBg7zZW6KVLn7H szPKEQ79celelEgDl_cvR_kk7qnbryZ06h.9LH5iIFdpjQoes0BY1RjACG3l WKowmkpC5aNQChFNEh.9a5jmpN2ZIeF_8zIC2xQ9wYeC261LO4.1R6KFcnh5 pygOgrRATnPkS0o7W6ImZ1ytl1gdcfLbBYjU0enfC.dgbpNs3pXQ- To: mgs@autox.team.net References: Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:08:51 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 Subject: Re: [Mgs] old Moss Motors catalog From: Charles Hill via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net I probably have some but for what car? Charles Hill On 8/25/2015 2:28 PM, Mike Duvall via Mgs wrote: > Anyone have old Moss Motors catalogs from the 70s or 80s? > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog@sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 26 16:28:32 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF78258AA37 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa12-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa12-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [68.178.252.231]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C39258A798 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 370Z ([70.122.243.61]) by p3plsmtpa12-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 9aQc1r00A1LBsym01aQcal; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 15:24:37 -0700 To: Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:24:26 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: [Mgs] mga seat belts From: dave n via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4865103739450215298== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01D0E024.0EC1C9D0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01D0E024.0EC1C9D0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable looking for recommendation on a shoulder harness seat belt set for a 56 = mga thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01D0E024.0EC1C9D0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
looking for recommendation on a shoulder harness seat belt set for = a 56=20 mga
 
thanks!
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01D0E024.0EC1C9D0-- --===============4865103739450215298== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============4865103739450215298==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 26 17:13:03 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611472589D9B for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from omr-m002.mx.aol.com (omr-m002e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.2]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABEA2589D94 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaomg-aaa01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aaa01.mx.aol.com [172.27.1.227]) by omr-m002.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id C1416380007E; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-aob01b.mail.aol.com (core-aob01.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.11]) by mtaomg-aaa01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 9728E38000081; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 69.121.83.89 by webprd-m52.mail.aol.com (10.74.13.200) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:10:39 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:10:39 -0400 To: dave@ranteer.com, mgs@autox.team.net References: x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20150623; t=1440630639; bh=uoPhs6TAW9GinuHje7lmoTMEL6suahTDp74AQBIiJIg=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=63dku2dBpoAiluoJ6Xc2MwccL0r4g6BMLq0Dy999bhXuiOvS/gN4OPnb72CThecxw 1S530cnJRHyXhdeWY+jwd3PXDvhX9h/9sPISJZDVHhAcizUpTJE7pCyoRg6watBNG5 flDJjPcp1JvtbVHbXJ865ZejqicsoqjniroVOdRQ= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b01e355de476f1b07 Subject: Re: [Mgs] mga seat belts From: tmcnam4510--- via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7787682532251369635== boundary="----=_Part_123655_601724240.1440630639475" ------=_Part_123655_601724240.1440630639475 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Get hold of Todd Clarke. He is the man for seat belts and fittings. Tom -----Original Message----- From: dave n via Mgs To: mgs Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2015 6:29 pm Subject: [Mgs] mga seat belts looking for recommendation on a shoulder harness seat belt set for a 56 mga thanks! _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Donate: Archive: Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/tmcnam4510@aol.com ------=_Part_123655_601724240.1440630639475 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Get hold of Todd Clarke.  He is the man for seat belts and fittings.  Tom


 ------=_Part_123655_601724240.1440630639475-- --===============7787682532251369635== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============7787682532251369635==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 29 14:40:22 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA23258B05F for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2015 14:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk0-f179.google.com (mail-qk0-f179.google.com [209.85.220.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7CB258AFBC for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2015 14:40:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by qkda128 with SMTP id a128so45305289qkd.3 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) h=reply-to:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=5v9uFIzB4YnEZIKMbz4StjLmtbcfo0zHJyOT3FhcJFc=; b=v8cvNRoNPtIdP0JU4FILTnjFFrbRgOxq2T0jhm2vsw/Q+0UL2OFB6Pgqs0z03DOOcK iPvkU7SiSyDtmdRsM1SdpQ5lzUs4299f2e4cKMpbH6bX+5Vt/I0AAeNI4xk+1/wNJcP6 o3DfWBj3AZLaErMO7+h3ybfAv9GITbMRTqp9RtkYao2QqxAUYk89wNTwUGz+7Z7xdymo O1JxqQDjnAHCB4hEfRmUoAP62QTKYdZYaiKgO1HtpTHW6/slB/Wx7fH+qjBfOlvLaLuH YPafwbEdKp8G6CH4AMZQhwe5LNvZDe5Rd5niJjKc1OOOL7SONoHjX3Vg38NwxOCXTPcX rYBQ== Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RPS2 (ool-18b9408d.dyn.optonline.net. [24.185.64.141]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 108sm5829851qgz.17.2015.08.29.13.40.18 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:40:18 -0700 (PDT) To: Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:40:20 -0400 Thread-Index: AdDimudYsqvgN1LgT6ySzMjyjNFLNA== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Mgs] Coil type for a 1980 MGB From: Peter Schauss via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net My car is exhibiting symptoms of a bad coil (intermittent missing when hot to the point where it stalls out, runs fine when it cools down.) I put in a new coil (correct Moss part number) about two years ago when the car had the same symptoms. Everything that I am reading says that an 1980 model should use an unballasted coil because the ballast resistor is in the wiring harness. All of the wiring diagrams show two green and white wires going to the positive terminal on the coil. Based on what I read, I would expect about 6 volts at the positive coil terminal. My car has a single white wire on the positive terminal. If I remove that wire and measure the voltage with the ignition on, I get 12 volts at the connector. With the wire connected, ignition on, I get about 11 volts at the positive coil terminal. I have had the car since 1991 and it had 38k miles on it when I bought it so I have reasonable confidence that wiring harness has not been modified. The wiring to the coil looks original except where I connected a Pertronix system two years ago. I know that electronic ignition on the 1980 MGBs was different from what they used on the earlier cars. Does that account for the differences that I am seeing? Should I be using an ballasted coil? Thanks, Peter Schauss _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 31 02:19:18 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E4BF258765D for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 02:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-7.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-7.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.71]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE8D258571C for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 02:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from paul ([82.33.136.201]) by know-smtprelay-7-imp with bizsmtp id BLJf1r0084LtS4201LJfz1; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:18:39 +0100 a=YoHHhzezPWCd72KMXRt8+g==:17 a=NcN59idvAAAA:8 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=SKRO00HckURioVT-vE0A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 To: , "Peter Schauss" , References: <01c701d0e29a$ecaa9e70$c5ffdb50$@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:09:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Coil type for a 1980 MGB From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Don't get hung up on ballasted and unballasted coils, those terms cause an awful lot of confusion and they are completely irrelevant. Coils are either 6v or 12v. Either, both or none may or may not contain internal ballast. However which (6v or 12v) you use does depend on whether the cars harness contains a ballast resistance or not. 12v coils generally measure 2.5 to 3 ohms across the primary winding, whereas 6v coils measure about 1.2 to 1.5 ohms, i.e. about half. This is because the ballast resistance also measures about 1.5 ohms, so the running current is the same in both cases, but the 6v coil only has half the voltage developed across it compared to a 12v, which has a couple of benefits. A 1980 (in fact all rubber bumper MGBs) would originally have had the ballast resistance in the harness, and hence a 6v coil. Before that there would be one white wire on the coil +ve or SW, after that it would have been two white/light-green wires. If you only have a single white on the +ve then your ignition system has been modified for some reason. If you remove the ignition feed wire from the coil you will always see 12v on it, regardless of whether there is a ballast in circuit or not, so that is no guide as to which coil you need. What voltage you see across the coil terminals depends on whether the engine is stopped or running, and if stopped whether the points or electronic trigger are closed or open. Many electronic triggers don't 'close' to pass current through the coil until the engine is cranked. Unless the coil is passing current you will always see 12v on the 'live' (i.e. +ve of a 1980) end of a coil, regardless of whether it is a ballasted ignition system with a 6v coil or an unballasted system with a 12v coil. It's also complicated by people bypassing the ballast when fitting aftermarket ignition systems or coils. With the engine running you will see different voltages, which I won't go into as it depends on whether you have the right combination of coil and ballast and what type of ignition trigger. The easiest way to check is first measure your coil primary resistance. Then connect the wiring to the +ve terminal, turn on the ignition, connect an earth to the -ve, and measure the voltage across the coil. If you see 12v then there is no ballast resistance in circuit, so you need a 12v coil. If you see less than 12v, then you probably have ballast in circuit, and it depends on which coil you are using as to what voltage you are seeing. If your coil measures 1.5 ohms and you see 6v then that is correct. If your coil measures about 3 ohms and you see 12v that is also correct. But if you have a 12v coil i.e. 3 ohms in series with a ballast, then you will see something between 6v and 12v. Ballast resistances can also go faulty, which will also result in different voltages being seen across the coil. If your coil has failed and you are trying to find out which one to buy, then unless you can borrow another coil that is for the same type of ignition system, about the only thing you can do is turn on the ignition and measure the resistance between the wire that goes onto the coil +ve, and the white or white/brown wires at the fusebox, looking for 1.5 ohms. Turning on the ignition when you are only measuring resistance may seem strange, but the ignition wiring can vary or have been mucked about with on late model cars with ignition relays like yours. However ballast resistances like coils can go faulty when hot, so you may see 1.5 ohms when cold, but it goes higher when hot, affecting your HT. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > > Everything that I am reading says that an 1980 model should use an > unballasted coil because the ballast resistor is in the wiring harness. > All > of the wiring diagrams show two green and white wires going to the > positive > terminal on the coil. Based on what I read, I would expect about 6 volts > at > the positive coil terminal. My car has a single white wire on the > positive > terminal. If I remove that wire and measure the voltage with the ignition > on, I get 12 volts at the connector. With the wire connected, ignition > on, > I get about 11 volts at the positive coil terminal. _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 31 13:55:47 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4E832587DCF for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from pacmmta56.windstream.net (pacmmta56.windstream.net [162.39.147.222]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98252587D43 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.254.1] ([75.117.223.244]) by pacmmta56.windstream.net with pacmmta56 id BXq41r00L5GzqLz01Xq4Sp; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:50:05 -0400 a=G4QIZYq2pwQrQsjmuLytvQ==:117 a=G4QIZYq2pwQrQsjmuLytvQ==:17 a=o2QoyYduAAAA:8 a=Ov22w-J6AAAA:8 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=XNopYVYxDHOOqoWkWDEA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 Authentication-Results: pacmmta56.windstream.net ; auth=pass smtp.auth=ccrobins@ktc.com References: <01c701d0e29a$ecaa9e70$c5ffdb50$@gmail.com> To: pschauss@post.harvard.edu, Peter Schauss , mgs@autox.team.net Organization: Computer Helpers Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:49:48 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Coil type for a 1980 MGB From: Charley & Peggy Robinson via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net You could measure the coil resistance when the coil is both cold & hot, see if there's any difference. Otherwise Paul's advice on determining if there's a ballast or not is fine. I carry a spare coil in the boot. CR _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net