From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 6 18:10:45 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29ED625894E2 for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2016 18:10:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from nm35-vm6.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm35-vm6.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.216.189]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE66925885CF for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2016 14:24:09 -0700 (MST) t=1478467484; bh=5i9T1gmsiG9Xv6XXjHdf0jKkS2g76taa4P5DKFJb++c=; h=Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=i5MuhtybXjM4f0WbMTiKLR2HlsrmSNMAA4vpATur0sSUxBV0S4E4Dnv1xwwU+enUlzLO61ilUAjjKFNBUNjwsruuOGf2avnFw9b5RbpG3ytm+Ys3rIGn0aAoCstMMpbV7DgM6WWZgyCL1+15cdIrZDiQrQbkRYSwTtebtnB+1rS6lBum9htEMd6BeIY3UyAzsAD2bJjqPP+jC5uIo93OwsLd5rd+xb3FxnE9YcKWbjwBlJ5IomzyFjD+P1bFMjm4Ysgk0UxeC5bAoYKiKDBuX+mL9oEEuyFVMJOyF0f4awQI58KtKk4BwU4H2IrzP+FYAeI54ziZepFegyLU2IT9NA== Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nm35.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2016 21:24:44 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.183] by nm35.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2016 21:21:59 -0000 Received: from [208.71.42.205] by tm19.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2016 21:21:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2016 21:21:59 -0000 ah3h0M5mC2htG0GuIfaNog3ifjkTatKtie4TH6RLe3oZNRe2t3m8lnebx2Xy JslWYc9FBiN3lOmXz1BZxr_yIin4wK8ZXiw3tuNB7.nkif6BO.fXDQN05wkV RL7rcuvzE9DgZ8x25.ENbVoFxgbMX00e4.VYhyNICyB6bjK.uoiJQBaJvuK4 1gzoKTPmI3qXWm4YlbdMGuphp8k0N9u5VETYbKR5ZsIU.WNh0KVu7OOlNKdf CnkapH8oZNlodhMi9oA6h6.jSiDbGq_JDL5tFH5Lb0wPiy0r9vdPOBzJ1X_Z t79idJtu1CM19U9ibPpwmsKgjjiTSLToHRCt9PZWDNqOQzceS._qF3G7Zoo3 2Ro4_3WgoUMzgvw92iDqUzmxoJTigGZZBtyFmVI8WuuwbTpqQmid2OE.RI_k EGaps6a3Ntvz0iQVe2Y548wcRPn1cQXuJVxIxkW5D4OH7jQc5bWyWpLdXw5T JRw8zdidh4SMAcYYs_4G7L2epa1LVmxThwGo7gBxTQHsCtcchgBgAim8UVOu owB8_ZgT1Yx1o Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 16:21:57 -0500 To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Clutch master cylinder From: Elliottmg via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Yesterday I started to work on the clutch master cylinder for my project car and ran into a problem. The car is a 1971 MGB and the cylinder is an unmarked Lockheed (no circles or stripes). The rebuild kit is Moss 180-965. The new spring plus the new piston plus the push rod will not fit into the cylinder. It isn't even close -- Probably a half Inch too long with the spring fully compressed. When I looked into the cylinder I can see something rubbery at the bottom end of the cylinder down by the reservoir. Should there be anything rubbery down there? If not, could an old seal be stuck in the cylinder? Thanks for your help. Elliott in Maryland _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 7 10:53:42 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD0FF2588F41 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 10:53:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail.interback.net (unknown [64.126.160.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5752C2588EB9 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 08:32:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from ISNSS001 (unknown [134.121.150.2]) by mail.interback.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 44F29C009B; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 07:32:38 -0800 (PST) To: "'Elliottmg'" References: <07DFCA8A-4068-460D-AA12-6FB2EC2FC45A@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 07:32:38 -0800 Thread-Index: AQJMi20KKGpPGCyWvxQGVypwVpri9J/ZAHnw Content-Language: en-us Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Clutch master cylinder From: David Councill via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Since I have my own question related to clutch hydraulics, I will answer this one first and then post my question in another email. But in short, there should be nothing rubbery. There is a plastic piece that fits on the back of the spring and all that should sit on the back of the bore. The rubbery piece is probably the 1/2" you refer to. David Councill 64 MGB 67 MGBGT 72 MGB -----Original Message----- From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Elliottmg via Mgs Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 1:22 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Clutch master cylinder Yesterday I started to work on the clutch master cylinder for my project car and ran into a problem. The car is a 1971 MGB and the cylinder is an unmarked Lockheed (no circles or stripes). The rebuild kit is Moss 180-965. The new spring plus the new piston plus the push rod will not fit into the cylinder. It isn't even close -- Probably a half Inch too long with the spring fully compressed. When I looked into the cylinder I can see something rubbery at the bottom end of the cylinder down by the reservoir. Should there be anything rubbery down there? If not, could an old seal be stuck in the cylinder? Thanks for your help. Elliott in Maryland _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 7 11:49:02 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398E52588AC6 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 11:49:02 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail.interback.net (unknown [64.126.160.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2E1258886D for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 09:12:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from ISNSS001 (unknown [134.121.150.2]) by mail.interback.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 600B4C0762; Mon, 7 Nov 2016 08:13:28 -0800 (PST) To: Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 08:13:29 -0800 Thread-Index: AdI5DEO8F9dgWF40TJibM4VPaBcgAA== Content-Language: en-us Cc: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Mgs] Clutch problems wuth thermal component From: David Councill via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1537052532912966415== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01D238CE.D2D0BF80" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01D238CE.D2D0BF80 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll ask the question before I start any serious disassembly. My near daily driver, 1964 MGB, is still on the road although the next few months I will likely drive it a lot less as darkness descends and roads start getting icy. A month ago, I had seal failure on my clutch master cylinder, resulting in the puddle of hydraulic fluid near my feet. Upon disassembly, I saw some pitting in the bore which caused premature seal failure (I rebuilt this unit about 5-6 years ago, not sure if I missed the pitting). So I decided to replace the master cylinder with a new Lockheed unit. Now I have a new problem - pedal motion is perfect until the car warms up and then most of the pedal resistance is lost briefly. Typically, when I drive to work (or leave work), the car starts out cold, warming up on the short city drive, and then I have 8-12 miles of highway driving. The first time I use the clutch after the highway drive, the pedal goes almost to the floor with no resistance but enough to still work. But once I do that one time, the clutch is perfect for the rest of the drive and remains good when I park the car. This will repeat itself on the drive home after the car warms up on the highway drive. Also - this motion is lost when the clutch is not used at all during the highway drive - this morning, I was halfway into the highway driving so I tested the free motion (without engaging the clutch) and sure enough, it was there shortly after the engine temperature was up to 180F. But once I did my first down-shift, going almost to the floor, pedal is now back to normal. There is no hydraulic fluid loss. Yesterday, I tried reseating the clutch line fitting on the back of the master cylinder since it looked wet but that had no effect. Still, it appears to be air getting pulled into the system, with possibly air expanding (the thermal component), or at least that is one theory of mine. Anyway, I am at a bit of a loss. Any tips on further troubleshooting? If nothing else, I'll do a disassembly of the whole clutch hydraulics this winter (slave, master, and hose). David Councill 64 MGB 67 MGBGT 72 MGB (in process of re-installing OD transmission) ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01D238CE.D2D0BF80 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’ll = ask the question before I start any serious disassembly. My near daily = driver, 1964 MGB, is still on the road although the next few months I = will likely drive it a lot less as darkness descends and roads start = getting icy. A month ago, I had seal failure on my clutch master = cylinder, resulting in the puddle of hydraulic fluid near my feet. Upon = disassembly, I saw some pitting in the bore which caused premature seal = failure (I rebuilt this unit about 5-6 years ago, not sure if I missed = the pitting). So I decided to replace the master cylinder with a new = Lockheed unit. Now I have a new problem – pedal motion is perfect = until the car warms up and then most of the pedal resistance is lost = briefly. Typically, when I drive to work (or leave work), the car starts = out cold, warming up on the short city drive, and then I have 8-12 miles = of highway driving. The first time I use the clutch after the highway = drive, the pedal goes almost to the floor with no resistance but enough = to still work. But once I do that one time, the clutch is perfect for = the rest of the drive and remains good when I park the car. This will = repeat itself on the drive home after the car warms up on the highway = drive. Also – this motion is lost when the clutch is not used at = all during the highway drive - this morning, I was halfway into the = highway driving so I tested the free motion (without engaging the = clutch) and sure enough, it was there shortly after the engine = temperature was up to 180F. But once I did my first down-shift, going = almost to the floor, pedal is now back to normal. There is no hydraulic = fluid loss. Yesterday, I tried reseating the clutch line fitting on the = back of the master cylinder since it looked wet but that had no effect. = Still, it appears to be air getting pulled into the system, with = possibly air expanding (the thermal component), or at least that is one = theory of mine.

 

Anyway, I am = at a bit of a loss. Any tips on further troubleshooting? If nothing = else, I’ll do a disassembly of the whole clutch hydraulics this = winter (slave, master, and hose).

 

David = Councill

64 MGB

67 MGBGT

72 MGB (in = process of re-installing OD transmission)

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01D238CE.D2D0BF80-- --===============1537052532912966415== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============1537052532912966415==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 8 03:03:25 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F53258920B for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 03:03:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-1.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-1.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9CB2586FE9 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 02:10:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from paul ([77.98.12.176]) by know-smtprelay-1-imp with bizsmtp id 5MAY1u00E3nu4tZ01MAYzs; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 09:10:33 +0000 a=aujsr3nizyhkvTcDIHoCrQ==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=3_APmOckkm7T352C9AsA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=y2S77FbmLXT7UrMIjgEA:9 a=o91u326EjThVDOJR:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 To: , References: <002001d23911$e0f3ff80$a2dbfe80$@karamursel.org> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2016 08:52:21 -0000 Cc: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems wuth thermal component From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8974060096987997011== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01D2399D.6B0760A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01D2399D.6B0760A0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "pedal goes almost to the floor with no resistance but enough to still = work" Expand? If the biting point is very low when this happens, then either = the pressure seal is not sealing when it should be, or there is air in = the system. If the biting point remains 'normal' then it's a purely = mechanical issue, possibly pivots binding with heat expansion. If the banjo union at the master is wet then that does imply a leak, = which may or may not let in air, and further tightening may not seal it. = Also if it's wet it implies fluid loss, which should eventually become = visible from the level in the master. But that may take some time, and = it will be affected by fluid expansion and contraction with heat/cool = cycles. If there is air getting in, then I can see that this becomes apparent on = flooring the pedal, which will tend to push the air down while = compressing it. But it will float to the top of the pipe while the = pedal is down, then when the pedal is released it will be flushed out of = the system into the reservoir. That is one of the many techniques that = may be needed to get full travel of the clutch slave after working on = the hydraulics. The effects of incomplete bleeding i.e. air remaining = in the system would normally be apparent on every pedal operation. However that begs the question of how the air is getting in in the first = place. The fluid is either under no pressure at all (pedal released), = or under pressure (anywhere beyond where the master piston seal closes = off the bypass hole to the reservoir). If air was getting with the = pedal released then it would be apparent on the first operation no = matter what the temperature was, and more than once on each drive. And = the pressure while the pedal was anywhere in its disengagement portion = should stop air getting in, even on the upwards stroke, as it is the = cover plate that is pushing back on the slave piston and hence the = fluid, which is the main factor in returning the master piston and hence = the pedal. The other possibility is that something is causing the slave piston to = be pushed back into the cylinder while you are driving, pushing fluid = that should normally be in the system back into the reservoir, and = creating lost-motion at the release arm. This has to be taken up before = you can start to disengage the clutch, so reducing pedal back-pressure = and lowering the biting point. But I can't really see how that could suddenly start happening with the = new master, so the new master (subject to getting a proper seal on the = banjo) has to be the prime suspect. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 ... Now I have a new problem - pedal motion is perfect until the car = warms up and then most of the pedal resistance is lost briefly... ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01D2399D.6B0760A0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"pedal goes almost to the = floor with no=20 resistance but enough to still work"
 
Expand?  If the biting point is very low = when this=20 happens, then either the pressure seal is not sealing when it should be, = or=20 there is air in the system.  If the biting point remains 'normal' = then it's=20 a purely mechanical issue, possibly pivots binding with heat=20 expansion.
 
If the banjo union at the master is wet then that = does imply a=20 leak, which may or may not let in air, and further tightening may not = seal=20 it.  Also if it's wet it implies fluid loss, which should = eventually become=20 visible from the level in the master.  But that may take some = time,=20 and it will be affected by fluid expansion and contraction with = heat/cool=20 cycles.
 
If there is air getting in, then I can see that this = becomes=20 apparent on flooring the pedal, which will tend to push the air down = while=20 compressing it.  But it will float to the top of the pipe while the = pedal=20 is down, then when the pedal is released it will be flushed out of the = system=20 into the reservoir.  That is one of the many techniques that may be = needed=20 to get full travel of the clutch slave after working on the=20 hydraulics.  The effects of incomplete bleeding i.e. air=20 remaining in the system would normally be apparent on every pedal=20 operation.
 
However that begs the question of how the air is = getting in in=20 the first place.  The fluid is either under no pressure at all = (pedal=20 released), or under pressure (anywhere beyond where the master piston = seal=20 closes off the bypass hole to the reservoir).  If air was getting = with the=20 pedal released then it would be apparent on the first operation no = matter what=20 the temperature was, and more than once on each drive.  And the = pressure=20 while the pedal was anywhere in its disengagement portion should stop = air=20 getting in, even on the upwards stroke, as it is the cover plate that is = pushing=20 back on the slave piston and hence the fluid, which is the main factor = in=20 returning the master piston and hence the pedal.
 
The other possibility is that something is causing = the slave=20 piston to be pushed back into the cylinder while you are driving, = pushing fluid=20 that should normally be in the system back into the reservoir, and = creating=20 lost-motion at the release arm.  This has to be taken up before you = can=20 start to disengage the clutch, so reducing pedal back-pressure and = lowering the=20 biting point.
 
But I can't really see how that could suddenly start = happening=20 with the new master, so the new master (subject to getting a proper seal = on the=20 banjo) has to be the prime suspect.
 
PaulH.
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
... Now=20 I have a new problem =96 pedal motion is perfect until the car warms = up and then=20 most of the pedal resistance is lost = briefly...
------=_NextPart_000_0057_01D2399D.6B0760A0-- --===============8974060096987997011== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============8974060096987997011==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 8 11:52:01 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D422586560 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 11:52:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail.interback.net (unknown [64.126.160.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512A72587B24 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 09:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from ISNSS001 (unknown [134.121.150.2]) by mail.interback.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2CA61C0762; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 08:26:18 -0800 (PST) To: "'PaulHunt73'" , Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2016 08:26:19 -0800 Thread-Index: AdI52nJZgG93MmNWQlaX50tCeP8s8g== Content-Language: en-us Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component From: David Councill via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============2612613171955013140== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01D23999.C8189740" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01D23999.C8189740 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, It is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone might have had similar problems. Since my last email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the same very predictable issue. The master remains the primary suspect because the issue happened after replacing the master cylinder. The slave cylinder was an aftermarket replacement I put in about 4-5 years ago but the only thing I have done with it is to drain the brake fluid. A recap of this morning's typical drive - solid pedal through several gear shifts through town, started highway drive. During this highway part, I slightly pressed on the clutch pedal several times on the drive until resistance was felt to see what was happening After a couple of miles and coolant temp up to 160F, some slackness and as soon as I got to the next town where I work, I had almost full travel to the floor. But the one press of the pedal and it was back to almost normal, next time I shifted, the pedal was solid again and a routine drive to work through town. It should now be fine until I start the next highway drive. (if I was only doing city driving, I wouldn't be having any issues) The symptoms appear more to be like a seal issue as one to two presses of the pedal resolves the issue (until next time). However, I have seen hydraulic leaks before which are slight enough to allow air in/out but not leak fluid. The seal on the banjo is still the place of primary suspicion so I'll probably drain the master and then completely redo the connection to see if I can get a better seal. There is a slight wetness at that connection but not enough to make for even a minuscule drop of fluid. Also relevant, I installed a new Lockheed master cylinder as I mentioned. This is part LM13105, "fits all years 1962-1980". However, sources like Moss list separate clutch master cylinders for 62-67 and 68-80. From what I can tell, they are identical with one small difference in how the master cylinder mounts to the pedal box (how the bolts line up) such that this new master cylinder does not sit up straight but has a slight tilt clockwise (5-10 degrees). That could be enough that the flare fitting might be damaged or slightly off on the banjo connection - or at least that is my primary theory at present. The only problem with that theory is that somehow air would be getting pulled in under no pressure or vacuum other than that generated by metal expansion. Hopefully, it is not the master cylinder and its seals at fault because that involves a lot more work. Still, I thought about asking the group about master cylinders before I started - re-sleeve versus new. The costs were about the same so I went with new. Maybe I should have tried one of those new plastic reservoir after-market units since this is my almost daily driver. For now, I will work with the banjo fitting but I may end up trying another master cylinder if that fails, perhaps take the one out of my 67 BGT which is slated for an engine overhaul due to worn rings and excessive oil consumption. Either way, I'll get this figured out sometime in the not too distant future and then I'll report back. David Councill 64 MGB 67 MGBGT 72 MGB From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PaulHunt73 via Mgs Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 12:52 AM To: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com; mgs@autox.team.net Cc: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems wuth thermal component "pedal goes almost to the floor with no resistance but enough to still work" Expand? If the biting point is very low when this happens, then either the pressure seal is not sealing when it should be, or there is air in the system. If the biting point remains 'normal' then it's a purely mechanical issue, possibly pivots binding with heat expansion. If the banjo union at the master is wet then that does imply a leak, which may or may not let in air, and further tightening may not seal it. Also if it's wet it implies fluid loss, which should eventually become visible from the level in the master. But that may take some time, and it will be affected by fluid expansion and contraction with heat/cool cycles. If there is air getting in, then I can see that this becomes apparent on flooring the pedal, which will tend to push the air down while compressing it. But it will float to the top of the pipe while the pedal is down, then when the pedal is released it will be flushed out of the system into the reservoir. That is one of the many techniques that may be needed to get full travel of the clutch slave after working on the hydraulics. The effects of incomplete bleeding i.e. air remaining in the system would normally be apparent on every pedal operation. However that begs the question of how the air is getting in in the first place. The fluid is either under no pressure at all (pedal released), or under pressure (anywhere beyond where the master piston seal closes off the bypass hole to the reservoir). If air was getting with the pedal released then it would be apparent on the first operation no matter what the temperature was, and more than once on each drive. And the pressure while the pedal was anywhere in its disengagement portion should stop air getting in, even on the upwards stroke, as it is the cover plate that is pushing back on the slave piston and hence the fluid, which is the main factor in returning the master piston and hence the pedal. The other possibility is that something is causing the slave piston to be pushed back into the cylinder while you are driving, pushing fluid that should normally be in the system back into the reservoir, and creating lost-motion at the release arm. This has to be taken up before you can start to disengage the clutch, so reducing pedal back-pressure and lowering the biting point. But I can't really see how that could suddenly start happening with the new master, so the new master (subject to getting a proper seal on the banjo) has to be the prime suspect. PaulH. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01D23999.C8189740 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Paul,

 

It is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone might have had similar = problems. Since my last email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the = same very predictable issue. The master remains the primary suspect = because the issue happened after replacing the master cylinder. The = slave cylinder was an aftermarket replacement I put in about 4-5 years = ago but the only thing I have done with it is to drain the brake = fluid.

 

A recap of this morning’s typical drive – solid pedal = through several gear shifts through town, started highway drive. During = this highway part, I slightly pressed on the clutch pedal several times = on the drive until resistance was felt to see what was happening After a = couple of miles and coolant temp up to 160F, some slackness and as soon = as I got to the next town where I work, I had almost full travel to the = floor. But the one press of the pedal and it was back to almost normal, = next time I shifted, the pedal was solid again and a routine drive to = work through town. It should now be fine until I start the next highway = drive.

(if I was only doing city driving, I wouldn’t be having any = issues)

 

The symptoms appear more to be like a seal issue as one to two = presses of the pedal resolves the issue (until next time). However, I = have seen hydraulic leaks before which are slight enough to allow air = in/out but not leak fluid. The seal on the banjo is still the place of = primary suspicion so I’ll probably drain the master and then = completely redo the connection to see if I can get a better seal. There = is a slight wetness at that connection but not enough to make for even a = minuscule drop of fluid. Also relevant, I installed a new Lockheed = master cylinder as I mentioned. This is part LM13105, “fits all = years 1962-1980”. However, sources like Moss list separate clutch = master cylinders for 62-67 and 68-80. From what I can tell, they are = identical with one small difference in how the master cylinder mounts to = the pedal box (how the bolts line up) such that this new master cylinder = does not sit up straight but has a slight tilt clockwise (5-10 degrees). = That could be enough that the flare fitting might be damaged or slightly = off on the banjo connection – or at least that is my primary = theory at present. The only problem with that theory is that somehow air = would be getting pulled in under no pressure or vacuum other than that = generated by metal expansion. Hopefully, it is not the master cylinder = and its seals at fault because that involves a lot more = work.

 

Still, I thought about asking the group about master cylinders before = I started – re-sleeve versus new. The costs were about the same so = I went with new. Maybe I should have tried one of those new plastic = reservoir after-market units since this is my almost daily driver. For = now, I will work with the banjo fitting but I may end up trying another = master cylinder if that fails, perhaps take the one out of my 67 BGT = which is slated for an engine overhaul due to worn rings and excessive = oil consumption. Either way, I’ll get this figured out sometime in = the not too distant future and then I’ll report = back.

 

David Councill

64 MGB

67 MGBGT

72 MGB

 

From:= = Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PaulHunt73 = via Mgs
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 12:52 = AM
To: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com; = mgs@autox.team.net
Cc: = MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch = problems wuth thermal component

 

"pedal goes almost to the floor = with no resistance but enough to still = work"

 

Expand?  If the = biting point is very low when this happens, then either the = pressure seal is not sealing when it should be, or there is air in the = system.  If the biting point remains 'normal' then it's a purely = mechanical issue, possibly pivots binding with heat = expansion.

 

If the banjo union at = the master is wet then that does imply a leak, which may or may not let = in air, and further tightening may not seal it.  Also if it's wet = it implies fluid loss, which should eventually become visible from the = level in the master.  But that may take some time, and it will = be affected by fluid expansion and contraction with heat/cool = cycles.

 

If there is air = getting in, then I can see that this becomes apparent on flooring the = pedal, which will tend to push the air down while compressing it.  = But it will float to the top of the pipe while the pedal is down, then = when the pedal is released it will be flushed out of the system into the = reservoir.  That is one of the many techniques that may be needed = to get full travel of the clutch slave after working on the = hydraulics.  The effects of incomplete bleeding i.e. air = remaining in the system would normally be apparent on every pedal = operation.

 

However that begs the = question of how the air is getting in in the first place.  The = fluid is either under no pressure at all (pedal released), or under = pressure (anywhere beyond where the master piston seal closes off the = bypass hole to the reservoir).  If air was getting with the pedal = released then it would be apparent on the first operation no matter what = the temperature was, and more than once on each drive.  And the = pressure while the pedal was anywhere in its disengagement portion = should stop air getting in, even on the upwards stroke, as it is the = cover plate that is pushing back on the slave piston and hence the = fluid, which is the main factor in returning the master piston and hence = the pedal.

 

The other possibility = is that something is causing the slave piston to be pushed back into the = cylinder while you are driving, pushing fluid that should normally be in = the system back into the reservoir, and creating lost-motion at the = release arm.  This has to be taken up before you can start to = disengage the clutch, so reducing pedal back-pressure and lowering the = biting point.

 

But I can't really = see how that could suddenly start happening with the new master, so the = new master (subject to getting a proper seal on the banjo) has to be the = prime suspect.

 

PaulH.

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_004E_01D23999.C8189740-- --===============2612613171955013140== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============2612613171955013140==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 8 20:39:25 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925BF2589AD0 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 20:39:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from gproxy10-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy10-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.20.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B60B25892E9 for ; Tue, 8 Nov 2016 18:07:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31067 invoked by uid 0); 9 Nov 2016 01:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw2) (10.0.90.83) by gproxy10.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2016 01:07:41 -0000 Received: from box522.bluehost.com ([74.220.219.122]) by cmgw2 with id 5d7c1u01U2f2jeq01d7fgM; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 18:07:40 -0700 a=GsOEXm/OWkKvwdLVJsfwcA==:117 a=GsOEXm/OWkKvwdLVJsfwcA==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=L24OOQBejmoA:10 a=zo8hvysWAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=qV0mfD4mAAAA:8 a=LkmToUsqtB6bl5bJszcA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=WCa_TMjP96QA:10 a=8gRhV2fJoUiqjJySzBIA:9 a=P_1oZXIzvf0W9ut7:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=hpSqStiEF4MlayOYDisI:22 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=mnVZ7iNJyew7AB3q5ROZ:22 ; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Subject: From:To:Date; bh=eIbxElLlmeZiBJ8xBR+wOx1jt9fGPil4tJ4Pc0j1Mgo=; b=oF7p2EnZDP+r yXyQ83fwYtzwNw0QfONTg+NchUHvVKKpft2akzln7RklhzUH8YW3YmA58lMnOBuY5+2F+/w55a20L z7I+IfY3NfMHiFzIVxWpZQtWgeJIZypi82JTjMu; Received: from ip-64-134-53-214.public.wayport.net ([64.134.53.214]:57118 helo=BarneysPC.mgaguru.com) by box522.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1c4HMX-00037M-66; Tue, 08 Nov 2016 18:07:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2016 20:07:26 -0500 To: David Councill , "'PaulHunt73'" References: <004d01d239dc$d63bd740$82b385c0$@karamursel.org> please include it with any abuse report [64.134.53.214]:57118 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component From: Barney Gaylord via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1939601172585867923== boundary="=====================_110929765==.ALT" --=====================_110929765==.ALT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Clutch pedal goes to floor on first stroke after=20 a long rest, but works correctly otherwise. This=20 implies that the clutch slave cylinder piston has=20 retractred too far, requiring one pedal push to reset it to correst= position. The clutch slve cylinder should have a light=20 force compression spring inside. See here:=20 http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/hydraulics/ht107.htm If that spring is missing the slave cyinder may=20 still work, but the piston might retract farther=20 than intended during a period of dormancy (long=20 drive without using the clutch). You might want=20 to open the slave cuinder to check on what's inside. At 08:26 AM 11/8/2016 -0800, David Councill via Mgs wrote: >.... >It is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone=20 >might have had similar problems. Since my last=20 >email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the=20 >same very predictable issue. The master remains=20 >the primary suspect because the issue happened=20 >after replacing the master cylinder. The slave=20 >cylinder was an aftermarket replacement I put in=20 >about 4-5 years ago but the only thing I have=20 >done with it is to drain the brake fluid. > >A recap of this morning=92s typical drive =96 solid=20 >pedal through several gear shifts through town,=20 >started highway drive. During this highway part,=20 >I slightly pressed on the clutch pedal several=20 >times on the drive until resistance was felt to=20 >see what was happening After a couple of miles=20 >and coolant temp up to 160F, some slackness and=20 >as soon as I got to the next town where I work,=20 >I had almost full travel to the floor. But the=20 >one press of the pedal and it was back to almost=20 >normal, next time I shifted, the pedal was solid=20 >again and a routine drive to work through town.=20 >It should now be fine until I start the next highway drive. >(if I was only doing city driving, I wouldn=92t be having any issues) > >The symptoms appear more to be like a seal issue=20 >as one to two presses of the pedal resolves the=20 >issue (until next time). However, I have seen=20 >hydraulic leaks before which are slight enough=20 >to allow air in/out but not leak fluid. The seal=20 >on the banjo is still the place of primary=20 >suspicion so I=92ll probably drain the master and=20 >then completely redo the connection to see if I=20 >can get a better seal. There is a slight wetness=20 >at that connection but not enough to make for=20 >even a minuscule drop of fluid. Also relevant, I=20 >installed a new Lockheed master cylinder as I=20 >mentioned. This is part LM13105, =93fits all years=20 >1962-1980=94. However, sources like Moss list=20 >separate clutch master cylinders for 62-67 and=20 >68-80. From what I can tell, they are identical=20 >with one small difference in how the master=20 >cylinder mounts to the pedal box (how the bolts=20 >line up) such that this new master cylinder does=20 >not sit up straight but has a slight tilt=20 >clockwise (5-10 degrees). That could be enough=20 >that the flare fitting might be damaged or=20 >slightly off on the banjo connection =96 or at=20 >least that is my primary theory at present. The=20 >only problem with that theory is that somehow=20 >air would be getting pulled in under no pressure=20 >or vacuum other than that generated by metal=20 >expansion. Hopefully, it is not the master=20 >cylinder and its seals at fault because that involves a lot more work. > >Still, I thought about asking the group about=20 >master cylinders before I started =96 re-sleeve=20 >versus new. The costs were about the same so I=20 >went with new. Maybe I should have tried one of=20 >those new plastic reservoir after-market units=20 >since this is my almost daily driver. For now, I=20 >will work with the banjo fitting but I may end=20 >up trying another master cylinder if that fails,=20 >perhaps take the one out of my 67 BGT which is=20 >slated for an engine overhaul due to worn rings=20 >and excessive oil consumption. Either way, I=92ll=20 >get this figured out sometime in the not too=20 >distant future and then I=92ll report back. > >David Councill >64 MGB >67 MGBGT >72 MGB >From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PaulHunt73 via= Mgs >Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 12:52 AM >To: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com; mgs@autox.team.net >Cc: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems wuth thermal component > >"pedal goes almost to the floor with no resistance but enough to still= work" > >Expand? If the biting point is very low when=20 >this happens, then either the pressure seal is=20 >not sealing when it should be, or there is air=20 >in the system. If the biting point remains=20 >'normal' then it's a purely mechanical issue,=20 >possibly pivots binding with heat expansion. > >If the banjo union at the master is wet then=20 >that does imply a leak, which may or may not let=20 >in air, and further tightening may not seal=20 >it. Also if it's wet it implies fluid loss,=20 >which should eventually become visible from the=20 >level in the master. But that may take some=20 >time, and it will be affected by fluid expansion=20 >and contraction with heat/cool cycles. > >If there is air getting in, then I can see that=20 >this becomes apparent on flooring the pedal,=20 >which will tend to push the air down while=20 >compressing it. But it will float to the top of=20 >the pipe while the pedal is down, then when the=20 >pedal is released it will be flushed out of the=20 >system into the reservoir. That is one of the=20 >many techniques that may be needed to get full=20 >travel of the clutch slave after working on the=20 >hydraulics. The effects of incomplete bleeding=20 >i.e. air remaining in the system would normally=20 >be apparent on every pedal operation. > >However that begs the question of how the air is=20 >getting in in the first place. The fluid is=20 >either under no pressure at all (pedal=20 >released), or under pressure (anywhere beyond=20 >where the master piston seal closes off the=20 >bypass hole to the reservoir). If air was=20 >getting with the pedal released then it would be=20 >apparent on the first operation no matter what=20 >the temperature was, and more than once on each=20 >drive. And the pressure while the pedal was=20 >anywhere in its disengagement portion should=20 >stop air getting in, even on the upwards stroke,=20 >as it is the cover plate that is pushing back on=20 >the slave piston and hence the fluid, which is=20 >the main factor in returning the master piston and hence the pedal. > >The other possibility is that something is=20 >causing the slave piston to be pushed back into=20 >the cylinder while you are driving, pushing=20 >fluid that should normally be in the system back=20 >into the reservoir, and creating lost-motion at=20 >the release arm. This has to be taken up before=20 >you can start to disengage the clutch, so=20 >reducing pedal back-pressure and lowering the biting point. > >But I can't really see how that could suddenly=20 >start happening with the new master, so the new=20 >master (subject to getting a proper seal on the=20 >banjo) has to be the prime suspect. > >PaulH. --=====================_110929765==.ALT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Clutch pedal goes to floor on first stroke after a long rest, but works correctly otherwise.  This implies that the clutch slave cylinder piston has retractred too far, requiring one pedal push to reset it to correst position.

The clutch slve cylinder should have a light force compression spring inside.  See here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/hydraulics/ht107.htm

If that spring is missing the slave cyinder may still work, but the piston might retract farther than intended during a period of dormancy (long drive without using the clutch).  You might want to open the slave cuinder to check on what's inside.


At 08:26 AM 11/8/2016 -0800, David Councill via Mgs wrote:
....
It is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone might have had similar problems. Since my last email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the same very predictable issue. The master remains the primary suspect because the issue happened after replacing the master cylinder. The slave cylinder was an aftermarket replacement I put in about 4-5 years ago but the only thing I have done with it is to drain the brake fluid.
 
A recap of this morning=92s typical drive =96 solid pedal through several gear shifts through town, started highway drive. During this highway part, I slightly pressed on the clutch pedal several times on the drive until resistance was felt to see what was happening After a couple of miles and coolant temp up to 160F, some slackness and as soon as I got to the next town where I work, I had almost full travel to the floor. But the one press of the pedal and it was back to almost normal, next time I shifted, the pedal was solid again and a routine drive to work through town. It should now be fine until I start the next highway drive.
(if I was only doing city driving, I wouldn=92t be having any issues)
 
The symptoms appear more to be like a seal issue as one to two presses of the pedal resolves the issue (until next time). However, I have seen hydraulic leaks before which are slight enough to allow air in/out but not leak fluid. The seal on the banjo is still the place of primary suspicion so I=92ll probably drain the master and then completely redo the connection to see if I can get a better seal. There is a slight wetness at that connection but not enough to make for even a minuscule drop of fluid. Also relevant, I installed a new Lockheed master cylinder as I mentioned. This is part LM13105, =93fits all years 1962-1980=94. However, sources like Moss list separate clutch master cylinders for 62-67 and 68-80. From what I can tell, they are identical with one small difference in how the master cylinder mounts to the pedal box (how the bolts line up) such that this new master cylinder does not sit up straight but has a slight tilt clockwise (5-10 degrees). That could be enough that the flare fitting might be damaged or slightly off on the banjo connection =96 or at least that is my primary theory at present. The only problem with that theory is that somehow air would be getting pulled in under no pressure or vacuum other than that generated by metal expansion. Hopefully, it is not the master cylinder and its seals at fault because that involves a lot more work.
 
Still, I thought about asking the group about master cylinders before I started =96 re-sleeve versus new. The costs were about the same so I went with new. Maybe I should have tried one of those new plastic reservoir after-market units since this is my almost daily driver. For now, I will work with the banjo fitting but I may end up trying another master cylinder if that fails, perhaps take the one out of my 67 BGT which is slated for an engine overhaul due to worn rings and excessive oil consumption. Either way, I=92ll get this figured out sometime in the not too distant future and then I=92ll report back.
 
David Councill
64 MGB
67 MGBGT
72 MGB


From: Mgs [ mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PaulHunt73 via Mgs
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 12:52 AM
To: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com; mgs@autox.team.net
Cc: MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems wuth thermal component
 
"pedal goes almost to the floor with no resistance but enough to still work"
 
Expand?  If the biting point is very low when this happens, then either the pressure seal is not sealing when it should be, or there is air in the system.  If the biting point remains 'normal' then it's a purely mechanical issue, possibly pivots binding with heat expansion.
 
If the banjo union at the master is wet then that does imply a leak, which may or may not let in air, and further tightening may not seal it.  Also if it's wet it implies fluid loss, which should eventually become visible from the level in the master.  But that may take some time, and it will be affected by fluid expansion and contraction with heat/cool cycles.
 
If there is air getting in, then I can see that this becomes apparent on flooring the pedal, which will tend to push the air down while compressing it.  But it will float to the top of the pipe while the pedal is down, then when the pedal is released it will be flushed out of the system into the reservoir.  That is one of the many techniques that may be needed to get full travel of the clutch slave after working on the hydraulics.  The effects of incomplete bleeding i.e. air remaining in the system would normally be apparent on every pedal operation.
 
However that begs the question of how the air is getting in in the first place.  The fluid is either under no pressure at all (pedal released), or under pressure (anywhere beyond where the master piston seal closes off the bypass hole to the reservoir).  If air was getting with the pedal released then it would be apparent on the first operation no matter what the temperature was, and more than once on each drive.  And the pressure while the pedal was anywhere in its disengagement portion should stop air getting in, even on the upwards stroke, as it is the cover plate that is pushing back on the slave piston and hence the fluid, which is the main factor in returning the master piston and hence the pedal.
 
The other possibility is that something is causing the slave piston to be pushed back into the cylinder while you are driving, pushing fluid that should normally be in the system back into the reservoir, and creating lost-motion at the release arm.  This has to be taken up before you can start to disengage the clutch, so reducing pedal back-pressure and lowering the biting point.
 
But I can't really see how that could suddenly start happening with the new master, so the new master (subject to getting a proper seal on the banjo) has to be the prime suspect.
 
PaulH.
--=====================_110929765==.ALT-- --===============1939601172585867923== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============1939601172585867923==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 9 01:51:12 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D263E2589AC9 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 01:51:12 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-1.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-1.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2B72589AB5 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 01:38:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from paul ([77.98.12.176]) by know-smtprelay-1-imp with bizsmtp id 5kfM1u0063nu4tZ01kfM5s; Wed, 09 Nov 2016 08:39:21 +0000 a=aujsr3nizyhkvTcDIHoCrQ==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=OU0F1kEKWBTq3eDfZP8A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=GQMUW-ifeM4KuHN0U68A:9 a=6Mc0dkRL9wRPKsfN:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=zjWhRoSqWz9hl55Hdlzg:22 a=BKKCjISod1eDJeS0ORpz:22 To: "David Councill" , References: <004d01d239dc$d63bd740$82b385c0$@karamursel.org> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:27:48 -0000 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5575343653041825830== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01D23A63.27858200" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01D23A63.27858200 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Firstly the tilt in the later clutch master - that was to clear the = larger brake reservoir cap on North American models when they gained the = dual circuit system, but was fitted to all MGBs. AFAIK the tilt rotates = the master cylinder about the centre-line of the bore, so everything = should remain in line. Whilst the pipe could be moved to mate up with = the master outlet, if the position of the bore changed relative to the = pedal that could cause problems. 1. If you continue highway driving, after you have experienced the long = travel and corrected it with a couple of pedal presses, does it happen = again? Or does it only happen once no matter how far you drive? If it = only ever happens once then it looks like a master seal problem. 2. Another test, once you feel the slackness, stop the car where safe = without using the clutch, and see if you have any free play in the = release arm. If there is, then something would appear to be nudging the = piston back into the bore. However, there should be a spring inside the = cylinder which is constantly trying to push the piston out, and that = should continually being taking up any free play. The purpose of this = is to take up any and all play from there on i.e. in the release bearing = and friction plate, it is this that makes the MGB clutch self-adjusting = for wear. As another part of this test, at various temperatures, by pushing on the = release arm move the push-rod and hence the piston all the way back into = the cylinder, let it go, and it should ease its way out again. Make = sure the master reservoir has some space at the top to avoid the fluid = overflowing. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 =20 It is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone might have had similar = problems. Since my last email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the = same very predictable issue. The master remains the primary suspect = because the issue happened after replacing the master cylinder. The = slave cylinder was an aftermarket replacement I put in about 4-5 years = ago but the only thing I have done with it is to drain the brake fluid. ... ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01D23A63.27858200 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Firstly the tilt in the later clutch master - that = was to=20 clear the larger brake reservoir cap on North American models when they = gained=20 the dual circuit system, but was fitted to all MGBs.  AFAIK the = tilt=20 rotates the master cylinder about the centre-line of the bore, so = everything=20 should remain in line.  Whilst the pipe could be moved to mate up = with the=20 master outlet, if the position of the bore changed relative to the pedal = that=20 could cause problems.
 
1.  If you continue highway driving, after you = have=20 experienced the long travel and corrected it with a couple of pedal = presses,=20 does it happen again?  Or does it only happen once no matter how = far you=20 drive?  If it only ever happens once then it looks like a master = seal=20 problem.
 
2.  Another test, once you feel the slackness, = stop the=20 car where safe without using the clutch, and see if you have = any free=20 play in the release arm.  If there is, then something would = appear to=20 be nudging the piston back into the bore.  However, there should be = a=20 spring inside the cylinder which is constantly trying to push the piston = out,=20 and that should continually being taking up any free play.  The = purpose of=20 this is to take up any and all play from there on i.e. in the release = bearing=20 and friction plate, it is this that makes the MGB clutch self-adjusting = for=20 wear.
 
As another part of this test, at various = temperatures, by=20 pushing on the release arm move the push-rod and hence the piston = all the=20 way back into the cylinder, let it go, and it should ease its way out=20 again.  Make sure the master reservoir has some space at the top to = avoid=20 the fluid overflowing.
 
PaulH.
 
----- Original Message -----
 

It=20 is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone might have had similar = problems.=20 Since my last email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the same very = predictable issue. The master remains the primary suspect because the = issue=20 happened after replacing the master cylinder. The slave cylinder was = an=20 aftermarket replacement I put in about 4-5 years ago but the only = thing I have=20 done with it is to drain the brake fluid.

 ...

= ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01D23A63.27858200-- --===============5575343653041825830== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============5575343653041825830==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 9 09:29:54 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120E22589EC6 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 09:29:54 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail.interback.net (unknown [64.126.160.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FA32587560 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from ISNSS001 (unknown [134.121.150.2]) by mail.interback.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D9374C0762; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 07:54:41 -0800 (PST) To: "'PaulHunt73'" , References: <004d01d239dc$d63bd740$82b385c0$@karamursel.org> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 07:54:42 -0800 Thread-Index: AQIDVV96XrpHlSgPPDjyMKfN5L67mgF3O/uCoGLWgcA= Content-Language: en-us Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component From: David Councill via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============5535365814562325273== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D23A5E.8841DBC0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D23A5E.8841DBC0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am still driving, squeezing out the final good weather days before winter. Hopefully, I will get through today and tomorrow before I get a chance for some disassembly. What I will do is drain the hydraulic fluid, redo the banjo fitting connection, and remove/rebuild the slave cylinder. Then if the problem persists, I will remove and investigate the master cylinder. Until this car (1964 MGB), I have always rebuilt the hydraulics (seals) rather than buy new master/slave cylinders. But now I have the new Lockheed master cylinder. The slave cylinder was a new aftermarket unit I installed 5-6 years ago when I started the restoration. The clutch components (pressure plate, clutch disc, throw-out bearing) were installed new when I rebuilt the engine last year, about 5000 miles ago. As near as I can tell, this is a one time thing - the free play starts to increase about two miles into a 60 mph cruise and when the coolant temperature approaches normal operating temperature (185 F). Most of the time, the drive is as I described - very brief city driving, 12 miles on the highway, and then into the next city for a couple of miles to work. I will get about 80% free travel on the clutch during the highway drive - depressing it restores it to maybe 40% travel after the first push and after 2-3 more pushes (standard shifting), I will be back to normal (maybe 5% free travel). Fluid levels are unaffected. Sometimes, I take an alternate route home which is almost twice as long but has two highway drives and goes like this - 1 mile city, 8 miles highway, 2 mile city, 17 miles highway, home. That is usually my drive to get cheaper petrol so I do it about once a week (more frequently during convertible season just for the extended drive). And the problem then also occurs in the initial warmup highway drive, not on the second highway leg but then that was only one trip. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I'll have an answer in a few days. Hopefully, as I am short of backup cars. My 72B is partially disassembled - just about ready to pull the engine/transmission in order to put my OD transmission back in as well as fix the rear engine seal (plus install speedi-sleeve). The 67 BGT has been idle for about four months due to excessive oil consumption (~80-100 miles to the quart) and its up next for a rebuild when I get done with the 72. David Councill 64 MGB 72 MGB 67 MGBGT From: PaulHunt73 [mailto:paulhunt73@virginmedia.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 12:28 AM To: David Councill; MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component Firstly the tilt in the later clutch master - that was to clear the larger brake reservoir cap on North American models when they gained the dual circuit system, but was fitted to all MGBs. AFAIK the tilt rotates the master cylinder about the centre-line of the bore, so everything should remain in line. Whilst the pipe could be moved to mate up with the master outlet, if the position of the bore changed relative to the pedal that could cause problems. 1. If you continue highway driving, after you have experienced the long travel and corrected it with a couple of pedal presses, does it happen again? Or does it only happen once no matter how far you drive? If it only ever happens once then it looks like a master seal problem. 2. Another test, once you feel the slackness, stop the car where safe without using the clutch, and see if you have any free play in the release arm. If there is, then something would appear to be nudging the piston back into the bore. However, there should be a spring inside the cylinder which is constantly trying to push the piston out, and that should continually being taking up any free play. The purpose of this is to take up any and all play from there on i.e. in the release bearing and friction plate, it is this that makes the MGB clutch self-adjusting for wear. As another part of this test, at various temperatures, by pushing on the release arm move the push-rod and hence the piston all the way back into the cylinder, let it go, and it should ease its way out again. Make sure the master reservoir has some space at the top to avoid the fluid overflowing. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- It is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone might have had similar problems. Since my last email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the same very predictable issue. The master remains the primary suspect because the issue happened after replacing the master cylinder. The slave cylinder was an aftermarket replacement I put in about 4-5 years ago but the only thing I have done with it is to drain the brake fluid. ... ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D23A5E.8841DBC0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am still driving, squeezing out the final good weather days before = winter. Hopefully, I will get through today and tomorrow before I get a = chance for some disassembly. What I will do is drain the hydraulic = fluid, redo the banjo fitting connection, and remove/rebuild the slave = cylinder. Then if the problem persists, I will remove and investigate = the master cylinder. Until this car (1964 MGB), I have always rebuilt = the hydraulics (seals) rather than buy new master/slave cylinders. But = now I have the new Lockheed master cylinder. The slave cylinder was a = new aftermarket unit I installed 5-6 years ago when I started the = restoration. The clutch components (pressure plate, clutch disc, = throw-out bearing) were installed new when I rebuilt the engine last = year, about 5000 miles ago.

 

As near as I can tell, this is a one time thing – the free play = starts to increase about two miles into a 60 mph cruise and when the = coolant temperature approaches normal operating temperature (185 F). = Most of the time, the drive is as I described – very brief city = driving, 12 miles on the highway, and then into the next city for a = couple of miles to work. I will get about 80% free travel on the clutch = during the highway drive – depressing it restores it to maybe 40% = travel after the first push and after 2-3 more pushes (standard = shifting), I will be back to normal (maybe 5% free travel). Fluid levels = are unaffected. Sometimes, I take an alternate route home which is = almost twice as long but has two highway drives and goes like this = – 1 mile city, 8 miles highway, 2 mile city, 17 miles highway, = home. That is usually my drive to get cheaper petrol so I do it about = once a week (more frequently during convertible season just for the = extended drive). And the problem then also occurs in the initial warmup = highway drive, not on the second highway leg but then that was only one = trip.

 

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I’ll have an answer in a = few days. Hopefully, as I am short of backup cars. My 72B is partially = disassembled – just about ready to pull the engine/transmission in = order to put my OD transmission back in as well as fix the rear engine = seal (plus install speedi-sleeve). The 67 BGT has been idle for about = four months due to excessive oil consumption (~80-100 miles to the = quart) and its up next for a rebuild when I get done with the 72. =

 

David Councill

64 MGB

72 MGB

67 MGBGT

 

From:= = PaulHunt73 [mailto:paulhunt73@virginmedia.com]
Sent: = Wednesday, November 09, 2016 12:28 AM
To: David Councill; = MG-MGB@yahoogroups.com
Cc: = mgs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems = with thermal component

 

Firstly the tilt in the later clutch master - = that was to clear the larger brake reservoir cap on North American = models when they gained the dual circuit system, but was fitted to all = MGBs.  AFAIK the tilt rotates the master cylinder about the = centre-line of the bore, so everything should remain in line.  = Whilst the pipe could be moved to mate up with the master outlet, if the = position of the bore changed relative to the pedal that could cause = problems.

 

1.  If you = continue highway driving, after you have experienced the long travel and = corrected it with a couple of pedal presses, does it happen again?  = Or does it only happen once no matter how far you drive?  If it = only ever happens once then it looks like a master seal = problem.

 

2.  Another = test, once you feel the slackness, stop the car where safe without using = the clutch, and see if you have any free play in the release = arm.  If there is, then something would appear to be nudging the = piston back into the bore.  However, there should be a spring = inside the cylinder which is constantly trying to push the piston out, = and that should continually being taking up any free play.  The = purpose of this is to take up any and all play from there on i.e. in the = release bearing and friction plate, it is this that makes the MGB clutch = self-adjusting for wear.

 

As another part of = this test, at various temperatures, by pushing on the release arm = move the push-rod and hence the piston all the way back into the = cylinder, let it go, and it should ease its way out again.  Make = sure the master reservoir has some space at the top to avoid the fluid = overflowing.

 

PaulH.

 

----- = Original Message -----

 =

It is a bizarre problem. I was hoping someone might have had similar = problems. Since my last email, I have made two 15 mile drives with the = same very predictable issue. The master remains the primary suspect = because the issue happened after replacing the master cylinder. The = slave cylinder was an aftermarket replacement I put in about 4-5 years = ago but the only thing I have done with it is to drain the brake = fluid.

.= ..

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D23A5E.8841DBC0-- --===============5535365814562325273== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============5535365814562325273==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 9 09:58:43 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F742589EF0 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 09:58:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-1.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-1.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321AE2589223 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 09:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from paul ([77.98.12.176]) by know-smtprelay-1-imp with bizsmtp id 5sUZ1u00J3nu4tZ01sUZif; Wed, 09 Nov 2016 16:28:33 +0000 a=aujsr3nizyhkvTcDIHoCrQ==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=pxnlQwqvAAAA:8 a=Tv0tQJJ8T_5W_m1DtqcA:9 a=LVpTHaERWVlrhQS4:21 a=PVCnHLaxaVHZXYoG:21 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=4NhvhKYschgA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=2Pnv718Mc6vz6qZfZG4A:9 a=gvPeBSmmkEt1ehyB:21 a=9xsO6NBWmbzakKeM:21 a=Kh4zLEafSFrvIGPm:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=egKMGkq-_7m75_muvWdA:22 a=zjWhRoSqWz9hl55Hdlzg:22 a=BKKCjISod1eDJeS0ORpz:22 To: "David Councill" , References: <004d01d239dc$d63bd740$82b385c0$@karamursel.org> <000001d23aa1$9662d1d0$c3287570$@karamursel.org> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 16:29:10 -0000 Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5287064737808415171== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0181_01D23AA6.669C09D0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0181_01D23AA6.669C09D0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "And the problem then also occurs in the initial warmup highway drive, = not on the second highway leg ..." Weird! But then: "depressing it restores it to maybe 40% travel after the first push and = after 2-3 more pushes (standard shifting), I will be back to normal = (maybe 5% free travel). " Needing that number of presses does sound more like master pressure seal = problems than the slave piston getting nudged back. I had kind-of = similar on an old master, but it could happen at any time or not at all, = and how much travel I lost varied from operation to operation. In that = case it seems to have been caused by a cracked seal spreader applying = pressure to one side of the seal only, and cocking it in the bore: = http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/cmseal.htm#1. Replacing the seal caused no = end of problems as there are different kits for the original master. I await further investigations with interest. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 I am still driving, squeezing out the final good weather days before = winter. Hopefully, I will get through today and tomorrow before I get a = chance for some disassembly. ... ------=_NextPart_000_0181_01D23AA6.669C09D0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"And the = problem then=20 also occurs in the initial warmup highway drive, not on the second = highway leg=20 ..."
 
Weird!
 
But then:
 
"depressing it restores it to = maybe 40%=20 travel after the first push and after 2-3 more pushes (standard = shifting), I=20 will be back to normal (maybe 5% free travel). "
 
Needing that number of presses = does sound=20 more like master pressure seal problems than the slave piston getting = nudged=20 back.  I had kind-of similar on an old master, but it could happen = at any=20 time or not at all, and how much travel I lost varied from operation to=20 operation.  In that case it seems to have been caused by a cracked = seal=20 spreader applying pressure to one side of the seal only, and cocking it = in the=20 bore: http://www.mgb-stuff.or= g.uk/cmseal.htm#1. =20 Replacing the seal caused no end of problems as there are different kits = for the=20 original master.
 
I await further investigations = with=20 interest.
 
PaulH.
 
 
----- Original Message -----

I=20 am still driving, squeezing out the final good weather days before = winter.=20 Hopefully, I will get through today and tomorrow before I get a chance = for=20 some disassembly. ...

------=_NextPart_000_0181_01D23AA6.669C09D0-- --===============5287064737808415171== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============5287064737808415171==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 12 14:03:27 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2948258968C for ; Sat, 12 Nov 2016 14:03:27 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail.interback.net (unknown [64.126.160.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C6A2589212 for ; Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:18:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from Zeus (unknown [192.168.1.103]) by mail.interback.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4DB9DC0714; Sat, 12 Nov 2016 11:18:48 -0800 (PST) To: References: <004d01d239dc$d63bd740$82b385c0$@karamursel.org> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 11:19:04 -0800 Thread-Index: AdI6JpiRS8wJ2STWTQCyv5QjzZ7tDwC8Fp0A Content-Language: en-us Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component From: dcouncill via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============2609170949355677871== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01D23CD6.93F30190" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01D23CD6.93F30190 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Finally I have started the disassembly and inspection of the clutch hydraulic system. I decided not to drive the car the last two days because the clutch issue seemed to be getting worse or at least the recovery was becoming slower. At first, after a highway drive, 80% of the clutch resistance would be lost but would completely recover after 1-2 pressings of the pedal. But lately, it was taking even more. I started by draining the fluid and then removing the slave cylinder. There was some liquid within the dust boot to already indicate possible problems but it was the disassembly that revealed the answer. And Barney was spot on. Inside this fairly new slave cylinder (bought new from a vendor 5-6 years ago) with shiny inner bore and rubber seal, there was no spring! And yet no issues over the years until I replaced the master cylinder a few weeks ago. Fortunately, I had an old slave cylinder handy - just had to free the piston that was stuck to the bore due to corrosion to harvest its spring. I'll start the reassembly this afternoon and maybe get in a test drive before the rain arrives. David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B From: Barney Gaylord [mailto:barneymg@mgaguru.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2016 5:07 PM To: David Councill; 'PaulHunt73' Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal component Clutch pedal goes to floor on first stroke after a long rest, but works correctly otherwise. This implies that the clutch slave cylinder piston has retractred too far, requiring one pedal push to reset it to correst position. The clutch slve cylinder should have a light force compression spring inside. See here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/hydraulics/ht107.htm If that spring is missing the slave cyinder may still work, but the piston might retract farther than intended during a period of dormancy (long drive without using the clutch). You might want to open the slave cuinder to check on what's inside. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01D23CD6.93F30190 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Finally I have started the disassembly and inspection of the clutch = hydraulic system. I decided not to drive the car the last two days = because the clutch issue seemed to be getting worse or at least the = recovery was becoming slower. At first, after a highway drive, 80% of = the clutch resistance would be lost but would completely recover after = 1-2 pressings of the pedal. But lately, it was taking even = more.

 

I started by draining the fluid and then removing the slave cylinder. = There was some liquid within the dust boot to already indicate possible = problems but it was the disassembly that revealed the answer. And Barney = was spot on. Inside this fairly new slave cylinder (bought new from a = vendor 5-6 years ago) with shiny inner bore and rubber seal, there was = no spring! And yet no issues over the years until I replaced the master = cylinder a few weeks ago. Fortunately, I had an old slave cylinder handy = – just had to free the piston that was stuck to the bore due to = corrosion to harvest its spring. I’ll start the reassembly this = afternoon and maybe get in a test drive before the rain = arrives.

 

David Councill

64 B

67 BGT

72 B

 

From:= = Barney Gaylord [mailto:barneymg@mgaguru.com]
Sent: Tuesday, = November 8, 2016 5:07 PM
To: David Councill; = 'PaulHunt73'
Cc: mgs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: = [Mgs] [MG-MGB] Clutch problems with thermal = component

 

Clutch pedal = goes to floor on first stroke after a long rest, but works correctly = otherwise.  This implies that the clutch slave cylinder piston has = retractred too far, requiring one pedal push to reset it to correst = position.

The clutch slve cylinder should have a light force = compression spring inside.  See here: http://mgaguru.co= m/mgtech/hydraulics/ht107.htm

If that spring is missing the = slave cyinder may still work, but the piston might retract farther than = intended during a period of dormancy (long drive without using the = clutch).  You might want to open the slave cuinder to check on = what's inside.



 

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01D23CD6.93F30190-- --===============2609170949355677871== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============2609170949355677871==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 13 11:37:39 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0626025881D1 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 11:37:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa08-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa08-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.108]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C852025858C2 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 10:23:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from Aragorn ([205.197.253.4]) by :SMTPAUTH: with SMTP id 5yVQcsGEN2FS35yVRcFGVt; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 10:23:49 -0700 To: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 09:23:49 -0800 Thread-Index: AdI90MDiQ9sGMYh0Ri6+AIAO/9D7Wg== Content-Language: en-us MODWfwwYAi1ztp+9rq/yZu9GDkXG+sYwSL6jBs0Xn/lE4gQSzXb/dHiF Subject: [Mgs] question on mga carb tuning From: Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7034672091826248991== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_013D_01D23D8F.A4C7C960" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01D23D8F.A4C7C960 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am in the process of trying to reset my 1622 carbs. The manual speaks of backing the idle screw all the way and then adding a rotation back in for fast idle. I couldn't get anywhere until I turned it in about four turns. Is there a problem? Also, pushing the lifter didn't do anything, but lifting the piston caused the engine to die. Problem? Moved to the front carb. My piston lifter popped out and now I have significant sucking going on there. I presume that this will keep me from properly tuning the front? I was unable to get the car running unless I turned the idle screw up pretty far again. Very rough start. Yes, I backed out the rear idle all the way and lifted the piston as noted and had all interconnects disconnected. Is there a simple way to lock down the cable to the throttle; it seems tenuous at best? I presume my float bowls need to be mostly full so as to have enough fuel for hard acceleration? Mine have the top of the bloat about an inch down. I could never get the jet nut to make any difference either. Thanks, Clayton ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01D23D8F.A4C7C960 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am in the process of trying to reset my 1622 carbs. = The manual speaks of backing the idle screw all the way and then adding = a rotation back in for fast idle. I couldn’t get anywhere until I = turned it in about four turns. Is there a problem? Also, pushing the = lifter didn’t do anything, but lifting the piston caused the = engine to die. Problem?

 

Moved to the = front carb. My piston lifter popped out and now I have significant = sucking going on there. I presume that this will keep me from properly = tuning the front? I was unable to get the car running unless I turned = the idle screw up pretty far again. Very rough start. Yes, I backed out = the rear idle all the way and lifted the piston as noted and had all = interconnects disconnected.

 

Is there a = simple way to lock down the cable to the throttle; it seems tenuous at = best?

 

I presume my float bowls need to be mostly full so as = to have enough fuel for hard acceleration? Mine have the top of the = bloat about an inch down.

 

I could = never get the jet nut to make any difference either.

 

Thanks,

 

Clayton

------=_NextPart_000_013D_01D23D8F.A4C7C960-- --===============7034672091826248991== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============7034672091826248991==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 13 16:45:10 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27B22588CD0 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:45:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.centurylink.net [205.219.233.9]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20592588525 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 14:19:47 -0700 (MST) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:17 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=zo8hvysWAAAA:8 a=z1R5-WJlAAAA:8 a=CRh6gYyjNevWVNdIesYA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Rrb-eUS_-9EA:10 a=K0xP3e7zQfwA:10 a=08O3IMFmVD8A:10 a=o8hDQ0G7OvMA:10 a=hpSqStiEF4MlayOYDisI:22 a=GlfeG8oKyEryR_2UBgcf:22 Authentication-Results: smtp02.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:49230] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id 72/1F-19129-E09D8285; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:20:14 -0500 To: References: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:20:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mgs] question on mga carb tuning From: Eric J Russell via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net > I am in the process of trying to reset my 1622 carbs. The manual speaks of > backing the idle screw all the way and then adding a rotation back in for > fast idle. I couldn't get anywhere until I turned it in about four turns. > Is > there a problem? Also, pushing the lifter didn't do anything, but lifting > the piston caused the engine to die. Problem? I believe the suggestion is to back out the idle stop screw only until the throttle is fully closed & then turn it in one turn. If you back out the screw 'all the way' then the throttle stop screw is way more than one turn past throttle fully closed. How far are you lifting the piston? If you lift it a very small amount (~ 1/32") the mixture goes slightly leaner. If you lift it a little more the mixture goes way leaner and the engine would die. Ideally, lifting the piston 1/32" causes the engine to speed up for a moment then drop down. If it immediately dies then it is too lean. If engine speed increases and stays (and increases more if you raise the piston ~ 1/16") then it is too rich. Link to the MGA Guru's page on carbs: http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/carb.htm and tuning the carbs: http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb130.htm > Moved to the front carb. My piston lifter popped out and now I have > significant sucking going on there. I presume that this will keep me from > properly tuning the front? The lifting pin has to be in place. It should be held in by a tiny circlip with a spring behind it. > Is there a simple way to lock down the cable to the throttle; it seems > tenuous at best? The cable passes through a hole in the cable stop and should be firmly held by tightening the stop nut. See: http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb114a.htm > I presume my float bowls need to be mostly full so as to have enough fuel > for hard acceleration? Mine have the top of the bloat about an inch down. When full the float should be near the top of the float bowl. If you then remove the float the fuel will be lower (because the float's volume has been removed) The MGA Guru's page about tuning shows how to measure/adjust the float. Be sure the special washer on the central bolt of the float chamber is present. The fibre washer #72 shown here: http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29218#top must be in place above the lid and below the banjo fitting of the overflow pipe. That washer allows the float chamber to be vented. Otherwise, if not vented then fuel can't enter. > I could never get the jet nut to make any difference either. Jet bearing securing nut #15 (in the above link) must be tight to hold the jet bearing assembly secure. Otherwise turning the jet adjusting nut can allow the entire assembly to turn but not adjust the jet position to affect mixture change. Eric Russell Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 13 20:47:24 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 168572588915 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 20:47:24 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa06-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa06-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4EB2588D5E for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from Aragorn ([205.197.253.4]) by :SMTPAUTH: with SMTP id 67DJcWsYF8Xpv67DJc2fD1; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:41:41 -0700 To: References: <87E95DD6BCBF459691A355445ADF0776@EricJRussellPC> Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 18:41:40 -0800 Thread-Index: AQJlWpoyKYrg+PpyemrWA1zL8roI9gGIHs7In6T3x4A= Content-Language: en-us G4uO+c9/Ncs22oQ5Xssx6kBLEjkAuKpdk2is9KFIKMHl/IGhiwagc8ka Subject: Re: [Mgs] question on mga carb tuning From: Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric J Russell [mailto:ejrussell@mebtel.net] > Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 1:20 PM > To: mgs@autox.team.net > Cc: crk@godblessthe.us > Subject: Re: [Mgs] question on mga carb tuning > > > I am in the process of trying to reset my 1622 carbs. The manual > > speaks of backing the idle screw all the way and then adding a > > rotation back in for fast idle. I couldn't get anywhere until I turned it in about > four turns. > > Is > > there a problem? Also, pushing the lifter didn't do anything, but > > lifting the piston caused the engine to die. Problem? > > I the suggestion is to back out the idle stop screw only until the throttle > is fully closed & then turn it in one turn. If you back out the screw 'all the way' > then the throttle stop screw is way more than one turn past throttle fully > closed. > > How far are you lifting the piston? If you lift it a very small amount (~ > 1/32") the mixture goes slightly leaner. If you lift it a little more the mixture > goes way leaner and the engine would die. Ideally, lifting the piston 1/32" > causes the engine to speed up for a moment then drop down. If it immediately > dies then it is too lean. If engine speed increases and stays (and increases more > if you raise the piston ~ 1/16") then it is too rich. Since it is difficult at best to know when the idle screw is all the way, other than by feeling for a scrap where the end of the screw is, that is what I did. Then I advanced one turn, but it took several more so that I was getting enough gas flow to light up the engine. That was about 1300rpm. Raising the finger plunger on the side of the carb did nothing across the band of adjustment for the jet. I couldn't find worse or better across a wide band of the jet nut and ensuring the jet itself was held close to the nut. This is all on the rear. > > Link to the MGA Guru's page on carbs: > http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/carb.htm > and tuning the carbs: http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb130.htm > > > > Moved to the front carb. My piston lifter popped out and now I have > > significant sucking going on there. I presume that this will keep me > > from properly tuning the front? > > The lifting pin has to be in place. It should be held in by a tiny circlip with a > spring behind it. Yeah, I remember the set up. Apparently, I didn't catch the c-clip in the groove well enough. I remember at the time thinking the groove on the pin was rather shallow. > > > > Is there a simple way to lock down the cable to the throttle; it seems > > tenuous at best? > > The cable passes through a hole in the cable stop and should be firmly held > by tightening the stop nut. > See: http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb114a.htm > > > > I presume my float bowls need to be mostly full so as to have enough fuel > > for hard acceleration? Mine have the top of the bloat about an inch down. > > When full the float should be near the top of the float bowl. If you then > remove the float the fuel will be lower (because the float's volume has been > removed) The MGA Guru's page about tuning shows how to measure/adjust the > float. Be sure the special washer on the central bolt of the float chamber > is present. The fibre washer #72 shown here: > http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29218#t > op must > be in place above the lid and below the banjo fitting of the overflow pipe. > That washer allows the float chamber to be vented. Otherwise, if not vented > then fuel can't enter. All there. I will re-read Barney's page on that. I do know that if the lever goes too low, the shut-off gets stuck open and gas flows out the jet:<) > > > > I could never get the jet nut to make any difference either. > > Jet bearing securing nut #15 (in the above link) must be tight to hold the > jet bearing assembly secure. Otherwise turning the jet adjusting nut can > allow the entire assembly to turn but not adjust the jet position to affect > mixture change. Yep, it is on tight. I guess I could take the pots off the top and ensure the jets are actually moving. I get tired of taking things off and on again. I feel I've rebuilt 4 or 5 A's. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 14 18:45:14 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572F32588344 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 18:45:14 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from nm41-vm10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm41-vm10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.87.149]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CBB25891CB for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:54:18 -0700 (MST) t=1479167699; bh=W4wMk2V1nyJskTSirtOte1cfgdx/2Ti0j8Ecd5YNPgA=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=UBqq+jso7v1jSJTF1k+Oawm+1cgJEAP7W5Pr7bmZeZxWP3uQGftr3ZG2Jqyb7rs7nDQ2vqIKBc7OVDnrikfawnfT8g3Gh2azFH2bsgkPYVQtoUaYxDKMHN0otyKChBuCjYjGZoqMyZtfn1/63grMqxTU+5qMEhzJ0w4UtEcRXhMgmHD6e/6wihf9uNY3PS8+7ac2yi2XTB/4dsHC+VC1MIeBkkMfjX9q9aOhFH2ILISGMKL8fpRnSp+qoD1i0ZFrT+lXbSRiZU102oZiPv5nvrerWRLiYudHPc4DM3KvuO1mqc1edkT1G1aYBP/+h498Yx/3bx9R21NLy6bqjVfitw== Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nm41.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2016 23:54:59 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.175] by nm41.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2016 23:52:16 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.198] by tm14.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2016 23:52:16 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2016 23:52:16 -0000 aPm0S2lUXa4CBnPPGLEtcwMOO.OxPNBAOuW2KYm9Awki2yU9rqOsXe93n6Uqa5Sk5uCpH0zq0ZCx HmePzgvbZTgDcELlBuAMfIX0HxBxD3MucJN5iljbiMTXvuFGfzkZbRpXvqK1ieLVWXe6vJ5iNzmE 8OdkIw2.luJ9OcPA.m.cUiF8WDWhogxZPuwg_UE0GOS8VoyT2lew74V1VOeFCM0V2O4ZQWTS7EwB iWQbZAI5W6_TDsuE4Ulez.aZocOKPVnYgrs3w.ZnXIX.BbsFyB9du3Zku_Lu_o8jokg_qRy3b7_3 mO9f3gcVWq65qbypahz15..xumY4jtLCxIZXOD2.78JWbIjViC9q8UMaMtqoMDmYp_T8PGuS9bco MAygXxBtjetjJL9GgNHzQIR2FOvFHiHZ4rNHZ1NSLPYAmztdnA2wImfF.xvlymAhcxbdEKZJWDvy rhlLV.27YWxPTreV9h0HGNVabfdEE5aU3OBD7mAIqMaFd Received: from jws300070.mail.gq1.yahoo.com by sendmailws105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:52:15 +0000; 1479167535.790 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:52:14 +0000 (UTC) To: "mgs@autox.team.net" References: <87E95DD6BCBF459691A355445ADF0776@EricJRussellPC> <018801d23e20$a1752410$e45f6c30$@godblessthe.us> Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches From: Jack Wheeler via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0757744580969032100== boundary="----=_Part_4993880_2103653118.1479167534368" ------=_Part_4993880_2103653118.1479167534368 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a 1971 MGB that has a problem with the headlight switches.=C2=A0 Bef= ore I start replacing everything and hope for the best, I thought I would a= sk if any of you has had a similar problem, or can suggest a possible solut= ion. When I push bottom of the light switch (on the dash) to the first position,= the parking lamps and tail lights come on.=C2=A0 OK, so far.=C2=A0 When I = push the light switch to the second position, the headlights come on with t= he low beam.=C2=A0 OK, again.=C2=A0 Now comes the problem. When I move the stalk on the left side of the steering column forward (towa= rd the dash), the lights go off (i.e. no high beams).=C2=A0 If I pull this = stalk all the way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the bubs are ap= parently OK. My first thought was that it may be the high beam/low beam and direction in= dicator switch located on the steering column.=C2=A0 Does this sound right?= =C2=A0 Any other thoughts? And finally, if this is the case, is this switch available, and if so, do y= ou have a source you would recommend. Thanks for your help. Jack Wheeler =20 =20 ------=_Part_4993880_2103653118.1479167534368 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a 1= 971 MGB that has a problem with the headlight switches.  Before I star= t replacing everything and hope for the best, I thought I would ask if any = of you has had a similar problem, or can suggest a possible solution.

When I push bottom of the light switch (on the das= h) to the first position, the parking lamps and tail lights come on.  = OK, so far.  When I push the light switch to the second position, the = headlights come on with the low beam.  OK, again.  Now comes the = problem.

When I= move the stalk on the left side of the steering column forward (toward the= dash), the lights go off (i.e. no high beams).  If I pull this stalk = all the way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the bubs are apparent= ly OK.

<= div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1479137175150_52060">My first thought was that it may be th= e high beam/low beam and direction indicator switch located on the steering= column.  Does this sound right?  Any other thoughts?

And finally, if this is the case, is this switch availab= le, and if so, do you have a source you would recommend.

Thanks for your help.

Jack Wheele= r








------=_Part_4993880_2103653118.1479167534368-- --===============0757744580969032100== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============0757744580969032100==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 14 22:48:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5070825893E6 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:48:16 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6306258888A for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:47:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E049516B321 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 03:47:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.246]) by localhost (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Ml1enp4kJr51 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 03:47:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from HomePC (unknown [50.39.57.227]) by relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5F50C4D70F for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 03:47:32 +0000 (UTC) To: References: <87E95DD6BCBF459691A355445ADF0776@EricJRussellPC> <018801d23e20$a1752410$e45f6c30$@godblessthe.us> <562886890.4993881.1479167534369@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:47:17 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches From: "S. Carr via Mgs" Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4333924373060674955== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01D23EC9.0CDE75A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01D23EC9.0CDE75A0 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope somebody comes up with the answer to this, as I have exactly the = same problem on our =E2=80=9871 B/GT. After removing the steering column cowl (and putting it back together = without breaking the plastic where the screws go is even harder than = removal=E2=80=94good thing we had another one in the spares bin!) I = noticed that the contact that apparently completes the = forward-for-high-beam circuit was no longer there=E2=80=94apparently = burned away. So I raided our spares bin for a used stalk=E2=80=94from = another year, as it has icons on it that the one in the car = doesn=E2=80=99t, but the plug and all the wire colors matched and the = =E2=80=9Cmissing=E2=80=9D contact was there=E2=80=94and plugged it in = while things were still apart. Still no high beams (though, like Jack, = I can flash them by pulling the stalk backward), so I put everything = back together with the original stalk, and try not to drive the car at = night.... Help us both! Sarah Carr =E2=80=9871 B/GT in PA From: Jack Wheeler via Mgs=20 Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 6:52 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net=20 Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches I have a 1971 MGB that has a problem with the headlight switches. = Before I start replacing everything and hope for the best, I thought I = would ask if any of you has had a similar problem, or can suggest a = possible solution. When I push bottom of the light switch (on the dash) to the first = position, the parking lamps and tail lights come on. OK, so far. When = I push the light switch to the second position, the headlights come on = with the low beam. OK, again. Now comes the problem. When I move the stalk on the left side of the steering column forward = (toward the dash), the lights go off (i.e. no high beams). If I pull = this stalk all the way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the = bubs are apparently OK. My first thought was that it may be the high beam/low beam and direction = indicator switch located on the steering column. Does this sound right? = Any other thoughts? And finally, if this is the case, is this switch available, and if so, = do you have a source you would recommend. Thanks for your help. Jack Wheeler ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01D23EC9.0CDE75A0 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I hope somebody comes up with the answer to this, as I have exactly = the=20 same problem on our =E2=80=9871 B/GT.
 
After removing the steering column cowl (and putting it back = together=20 without breaking the plastic where the screws go is even harder than=20 removal=E2=80=94good thing we had another one in the spares bin!) I = noticed that the=20 contact that apparently completes the forward-for-high-beam circuit was = no=20 longer there=E2=80=94apparently burned away.  So I raided our = spares bin for a used=20 stalk=E2=80=94from another year, as it has icons on it that the one in = the car doesn=E2=80=99t,=20 but the plug and all the wire colors matched and the = =E2=80=9Cmissing=E2=80=9D contact was=20 there=E2=80=94and plugged it in while things were still apart.  = Still no=20 high beams (though, like Jack, I can flash them by pulling the stalk = backward),=20 so I put everything back together with the original stalk, and try not = to drive=20 the car at night....
 
Help us both!
 
Sarah Carr
=E2=80=9871 B/GT in PA
 
 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 6:52 PM
Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light = Switches
 
I have a 1971 MGB that has a = problem=20 with the headlight switches.  Before I start replacing everything = and hope=20 for the best, I thought I would ask if any of you has had a similar = problem, or=20 can suggest a possible solution.

When I push bottom of the = light switch=20 (on the dash) to the first position, the parking lamps and tail lights = come=20 on.  OK, so far.  When I push the light switch to the second = position,=20 the headlights come on with the low beam.  OK, again.  Now = comes the=20 problem.

When I move the stalk on the = left side=20 of the steering column forward (toward the dash), the lights go off = (i.e. no=20 high beams).  If I pull this stalk all the way towards me, the high = beams=20 do come on, so the bubs are apparently OK.

My first thought was that it = may be the=20 high beam/low beam and direction indicator switch located on the = steering=20 column.  Does this sound right?  Any other = thoughts?

And finally, if this is the = case, is=20 this switch available, and if so, do you have a source you would=20 recommend.

Thanks for your = help.

Jack=20 Wheeler
------=_NextPart_000_008C_01D23EC9.0CDE75A0-- --===============4333924373060674955== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============4333924373060674955==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 15 10:32:44 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EBF25891BC for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 10:32:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mail.interback.net (unknown [64.126.160.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C542025896D8 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from ISNSS001 (sb0150009.vpn.wsu.edu [134.121.150.9]) by mail.interback.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 65F21C0800 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 07:56:29 -0800 (PST) To: References: <87E95DD6BCBF459691A355445ADF0776@EricJRussellPC> <018801d23e20$a1752410$e45f6c30$@godblessthe.us> <562886890.4993881.1479167534369@mail.yahoo.com> <8613609E54FF4FA4B461C2355C4ECDD3@HomePC> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 07:56:28 -0800 Thread-Index: AQJlWpoyKYrg+PpyemrWA1zL8roI9gGIHs7IAZH9dCcCKb/ACQJHLxtcn3eiqNA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches From: David Councill via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0274915157507189529== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0095_01D23F15.C5FB4E90" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01D23F15.C5FB4E90 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These turn signal switch units should be readily available new from Moss = Motors and other distributers. I replaced mine at one point several = years ago in my 71 BGT (most parts now in my 72B). =20 http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D29081 - = part number 27 =20 Also, to be sure, test the switch while the cowl is still off to insure = the high beam part is working and not partially obstructed by the cowl. =20 David Councill 72 B 67 BGT 64 B =20 From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of S. Carr via = Mgs Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 7:47 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches =20 I hope somebody comes up with the answer to this, as I have exactly the = same problem on our =E2=80=9871 B/GT. =20 After removing the steering column cowl (and putting it back together = without breaking the plastic where the screws go is even harder than = removal=E2=80=94good thing we had another one in the spares bin!) I = noticed that the contact that apparently completes the = forward-for-high-beam circuit was no longer there=E2=80=94apparently = burned away. So I raided our spares bin for a used stalk=E2=80=94from = another year, as it has icons on it that the one in the car = doesn=E2=80=99t, but the plug and all the wire colors matched and the = =E2=80=9Cmissing=E2=80=9D contact was there=E2=80=94and plugged it in = while things were still apart. Still no high beams (though, like Jack, = I can flash them by pulling the stalk backward), so I put everything = back together with the original stalk, and try not to drive the car at = night.... =20 Help us both! =20 Sarah Carr =E2=80=9871 B/GT in PA =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01D23F15.C5FB4E90 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

These turn signal switch units should be readily available new from = Moss Motors and other distributers. I replaced mine at one point several = years ago in my 71 BGT (most parts now in my = 72B).

 

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D290= 81=C2=A0 - part number 27

 

Also, to be sure, test the switch while the cowl is still off to = insure the high beam part is working and not partially obstructed by the = cowl.

 

David Councill

72 B

67 BGT

64 B

 

From:= = Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of S. Carr via = Mgs
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 7:47 PM
To: = mgs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light = Switches

 

I hope somebody = comes up with the answer to this, as I have exactly the same problem on = our =E2=80=9871 B/GT.

 

After removing = the steering column cowl (and putting it back together without breaking = the plastic where the screws go is even harder than removal=E2=80=94good = thing we had another one in the spares bin!) I noticed that the contact = that apparently completes the forward-for-high-beam circuit was no = longer there=E2=80=94apparently burned away.  So I raided our = spares bin for a used stalk=E2=80=94from another year, as it has icons = on it that the one in the car doesn=E2=80=99t, but the plug and all the = wire colors matched and the =E2=80=9Cmissing=E2=80=9D contact was = there=E2=80=94and plugged it in while things were still apart.  = Still no high beams (though, like Jack, I can flash them by = pulling the stalk backward), so I put everything back together with the = original stalk, and try not to drive the car at = night....

 

Help us = both!

 

Sarah = Carr

=E2=80=9871 = B/GT in PA=

=  

 

------=_NextPart_000_0095_01D23F15.C5FB4E90-- --===============0274915157507189529== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============0274915157507189529==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 15 12:30:13 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C37F25896AD for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 12:30:13 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.228]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2982F2588ED7 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 11:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F7B8787E for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:38:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.244]) by localhost (filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.228]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Z_3jaFGctoUD for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:38:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from HomePC (50-32-100-174.adr01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [50.32.100.174]) by relay01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9EF97399B7 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:38:37 +0000 (UTC) To: References: <87E95DD6BCBF459691A355445ADF0776@EricJRussellPC> <018801d23e20$a1752410$e45f6c30$@godblessthe.us> <562886890.4993881.1479167534369@mail.yahoo.com> <8613609E54FF4FA4B461C2355C4ECDD3@HomePC> <009401d23f58$d41d07f0$7c5717d0$@karamursel.org> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:38:27 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches From: "S. Carr via Mgs" Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1135048420081822594== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C6_01D23F45.8B668210" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01D23F45.8B668210 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks David =E2=80=93 I know a replacement is available, but = I=E2=80=99m baffled as to why the second, apparently good, unit = didn=E2=80=99t work either.... Sarah From: David Councill via Mgs=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 10:56 AM To: mgs@autox.team.net=20 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches These turn signal switch units should be readily available new from Moss = Motors and other distributers. I replaced mine at one point several = years ago in my 71 BGT (most parts now in my 72B). =20 http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D29081 - = part number 27 =20 Also, to be sure, test the switch while the cowl is still off to insure = the high beam part is working and not partially obstructed by the cowl. =20 David Councill 72 B 67 BGT 64 B ------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01D23F45.8B668210 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks David =E2=80=93 I  know a replacement is available, but = I=E2=80=99m baffled as=20 to why the second, apparently good, unit didn=E2=80=99t work=20 either....

Sarah
 
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light = Switches
 

These=20 turn signal switch units should be readily available new from Moss = Motors and=20 other distributers. I replaced mine at one point several years ago in my = 71 BGT=20 (most parts now in my 72B).

 

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=3D290= 81 =20 - part number 27

 

Also,=20 to be sure, test the switch while the cowl is still off to insure the = high beam=20 part is working and not partially obstructed by the = cowl.

 

David=20 Councill

72=20 B

67=20 BGT

64=20 B

------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01D23F45.8B668210-- --===============1135048420081822594== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============1135048420081822594==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 15 17:09:20 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783902588C52 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:09:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA462589322 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 15:44:29 -0700 (MST) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=6rtlhPVd+aeAy9+nLcnfpg==:117 a=6rtlhPVd+aeAy9+nLcnfpg==:17 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=98kTQUedL7hgI23V3PkA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=HG-Shij19uMA:10 a=CN7-hSxTmVBQPzJJqfMA:9 a=0PbNv2E_LyooZieJ:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=_E8DXSXWC0jInl61zbkG:22 Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com header.from=allenhess@mgcarclub.com; sender-id=neutral Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.mail=allenhess@mgcarclub.com; spf=neutral; sender-id=neutral Received-SPF: neutral (smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com: 64.121.164.176 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of mgcarclub.com) Received: from [64.121.164.176] ([64.121.164.176:51496] helo=[192.168.1.107]) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.23.54417 r(Core:3.6.23.0)) with ESMTPS (cipher=AES128-SHA) id D2/98-40517-1FF8B285; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:45:06 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:45:05 -0500 References: To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches From: Allen Hess via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2096592777969810437== --Apple-Mail=_3D3CCB6A-E7E7-4F2E-BC40-DC9026F63A52 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii When I had that problem it was as simple as sanding the switch contacts = to clean them of 30-40 years oxidation. Take apart and clean has solved = a lot of problems. On Nov 15, 2016, at 2:00 PM, mgs-request@autox.team.net wrote: >=20 > From: Jack Wheeler > Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches > Date: November 14, 2016 at 6:52:14 PM EST > To: "mgs@autox.team.net" > Reply-To: Jack Wheeler >=20 >=20 > I have a 1971 MGB that has a problem with the headlight switches. = Before I start replacing everything and hope for the best, I thought I = would ask if any of you has had a similar problem, or can suggest a = possible solution. >=20 > When I push bottom of the light switch (on the dash) to the first = position, the parking lamps and tail lights come on. OK, so far. When = I push the light switch to the second position, the headlights come on = with the low beam. OK, again. Now comes the problem. >=20 > When I move the stalk on the left side of the steering column forward = (toward the dash), the lights go off (i.e. no high beams). If I pull = this stalk all the way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the = bubs are apparently OK. >=20 > My first thought was that it may be the high beam/low beam and = direction indicator switch located on the steering column. Does this = sound right? Any other thoughts? >=20 > And finally, if this is the case, is this switch available, and if so, = do you have a source you would recommend. >=20 > Thanks for your help. >=20 > Jack Wheeler --Apple-Mail=_3D3CCB6A-E7E7-4F2E-BC40-DC9026F63A52 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii When I = had that problem it was as simple as sanding the switch contacts to = clean them of 30-40 years oxidation. Take apart and clean has solved a = lot of problems.

On Nov 15, 2016, at 2:00 PM, mgs-request@autox.team.net = wrote:

From: Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light = Switches
Date: November 14, 2016 at 6:52:14 PM = EST
Reply-To: Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com>


I have a 1971 MGB that has = a problem with the headlight switches.  Before I start replacing = everything and hope for the best, I thought I would ask if any of you = has had a similar problem, or can suggest a possible = solution.

When I push bottom of the = light switch (on the dash) to the first position, the parking lamps and = tail lights come on.  OK, so far.  When I push the light = switch to the second position, the headlights come on with the low = beam.  OK, again.  Now comes the problem.

When I move the stalk on = the left side of the steering column forward (toward the dash), the = lights go off (i.e. no high beams).  If I pull this stalk all the = way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the bubs are apparently = OK.

My first thought was that = it may be the high beam/low beam and direction indicator switch located = on the steering column.  Does this sound right?  Any other = thoughts?

And finally, if this is the = case, is this switch available, and if so, do you have a source you = would recommend.

Thanks for your = help.

Jack = Wheeler

= --Apple-Mail=_3D3CCB6A-E7E7-4F2E-BC40-DC9026F63A52-- --===============2096592777969810437== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============2096592777969810437==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 15 17:27:00 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2FF625889CC for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:27:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E008A2587EEA for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:03:51 -0700 (MST) bh=0TMDcTYAvdxXy20B7O4/KfLbb+EfQe9XAYOZUdQpkyo=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID; b=dWfH1sAW0Qx5Px47tRIB3OFSD4wPbYcilQkrRFcRgaE6w4NOU8OL6QoHHPO6nBEOK owEHXLwQX+kXDepzMYPUKZirShY5zji514PxPVeZhY1pFpMyApg3CXmc3+o0W8QK51 ZTS1uxr28VBtbpspedFDBVPR1JPQ1BaqJ6szRFsW8tf7HCNnO7rxDk/cdwXKAozIfG 1jSG2BaaE+TbpAZKD8oD7z+IkNn+CecIHAjG2GSkZ1F3Q/CnxR078SR6Ta7Jhs69aC M98HnLxvHcOgUzG2LYnCIKeflajKANSi+/goQ9os4AgWRbgVXB3BGuJK/N3kdP7fa8 HYl10L+OSBGXQ== a=eElxKab5fizuxodqdjox2g==:117 a=eElxKab5fizuxodqdjox2g==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=NZZIpYRGAAAA:8 a=12PiDTGCAAAA:8 a=z1R5-WJlAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=hoC3lJGedM_0fFUULQMA:9 a=BCgK4MYZ4zXimH9N:21 a=WkBrHL97FjmzMBaK:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Bnw8xAMq6qUA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=o8hDQ0G7OvMA:10 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=_E8DXSXWC0jInl61zbkG:22 a=HKI-PF7qF8GxUhSRo5xo:22 a=9C0H88CycNrlr5Sg7cm3:22 a=GlfeG8oKyEryR_2UBgcf:22 a=HPItUfg3-W5T9FFxMdBG:22 Received: from [24.190.179.25] ([24.190.179.25:49944] helo=BedroomPC) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.9.48312 r(Core:3.6.9.0)) with ESMTP id 03/D9-07859-1849B285; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:04:33 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:05:17 -0500 Thread-Index: AdI/kDehyNLqWvjcS8OxWebEoQFo7Q== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches From: John Di Fede via Mgs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Jack, Sarah, It has been a while since I've studied my 1973 MGB wiring diagram. I think there are two separate circuits for the high beams. The regular headlight high beam circuit and the flash to pass circuit. I would check your light switch on the dash. Check it to verify that it is making the proper contacts within the switch to send power to the high beam circuit. I believe the dash switch sends the high beam power to the stalk on the steering column when you have the headlights switched on. Pushing the stalk forward then further completes the circuit and turns the high beams on. These dash switches are known to burn out from handling the full current needed to operate the headlights. This stalk also has a flash to pass circuit that is activated when you pull the stalk backwards. I think there is a constant power supply to the stalk that supplies the power to this circuit when you flash to pass. This power supply is a distinct circuit that does not flow through the headlight switch. This is why the flash to pass circuit works in the daylight when your headlights are not switched on. The problem I think you have is that the dash switch is not supplying power to the stalk for your high beam circuit. Also, there is known problem with the 4 way flasher switch in some (my 1973) MGB where if you move the switch on and off vigorously the flashers will work properly. Perhaps this will fix your headlight switch. Move the headlight switch on off a few times vigorously and see if that helps. If not remove the switch and test it with a volt ohm meter. I believe the dash switches are available through Moss and the major parts suppliers. Check you wiring diagram. Good luck John Difede 1973 MGB -----Original Message----- From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mgs-request@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 2:00 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Mgs Digest, Vol 114, Issue 6 Send Mgs mailing list submissions to mgs@autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mgs-request@autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at mgs-owner@autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Mgs digest..." Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Today's Topics: 1. Question on MGB Light Switches (Jack Wheeler) 2. Re: Question on MGB Light Switches (S. Carr) 3. Re: Question on MGB Light Switches (David Councill) 4. Re: Question on MGB Light Switches (S. Carr) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:52:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Jack Wheeler To: "mgs@autox.team.net" Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches I have a 1971 MGB that has a problem with the headlight switches.? Before I start replacing everything and hope for the best, I thought I would ask if any of you has had a similar problem, or can suggest a possible solution. When I push bottom of the light switch (on the dash) to the first position, the parking lamps and tail lights come on.? OK, so far.? When I push the light switch to the second position, the headlights come on with the low beam.? OK, again.? Now comes the problem. When I move the stalk on the left side of the steering column forward (toward the dash), the lights go off (i.e. no high beams).? If I pull this stalk all the way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the bubs are apparently OK. My first thought was that it may be the high beam/low beam and direction indicator switch located on the steering column.? Does this sound right?? Any other thoughts? And finally, if this is the case, is this switch available, and if so, do you have a source you would recommend. Thanks for your help. Jack Wheeler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:47:17 -0500 From: "S. Carr" To: Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches I hope somebody comes up with the answer to this, as I have exactly the same problem on our ?71 B/GT. After removing the steering column cowl (and putting it back together without breaking the plastic where the screws go is even harder than removal?good thing we had another one in the spares bin!) I noticed that the contact that apparently completes the forward-for-high-beam circuit was no longer there?apparently burned away. So I raided our spares bin for a used stalk?from another year, as it has icons on it that the one in the car doesn?t, but the plug and all the wire colors matched and the ?missing? contact was there?and plugged it in while things were still apart. Still no high beams (though, like Jack, I can flash them by pulling the stalk backward), so I put everything back together with the original stalk, and try not to drive the car at night.... Help us both! Sarah Carr ?71 B/GT in PA From: Jack Wheeler via Mgs Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 6:52 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches I have a 1971 MGB that has a problem with the headlight switches. Before I start replacing everything and hope for the best, I thought I would ask if any of you has had a similar problem, or can suggest a possible solution. When I push bottom of the light switch (on the dash) to the first position, the parking lamps and tail lights come on. OK, so far. When I push the light switch to the second position, the headlights come on with the low beam. OK, again. Now comes the problem. When I move the stalk on the left side of the steering column forward (toward the dash), the lights go off (i.e. no high beams). If I pull this stalk all the way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the bubs are apparently OK. My first thought was that it may be the high beam/low beam and direction indicator switch located on the steering column. Does this sound right? Any other thoughts? And finally, if this is the case, is this switch available, and if so, do you have a source you would recommend. Thanks for your help. Jack Wheeler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 07:56:28 -0800 From: "David Councill" To: Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches These turn signal switch units should be readily available new from Moss Motors and other distributers. I replaced mine at one point several years ago in my 71 BGT (most parts now in my 72B). http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29081 - part number 27 Also, to be sure, test the switch while the cowl is still off to insure the high beam part is working and not partially obstructed by the cowl. David Councill 72 B 67 BGT 64 B From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of S. Carr via Mgs Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 7:47 PM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches I hope somebody comes up with the answer to this, as I have exactly the same problem on our ?71 B/GT. After removing the steering column cowl (and putting it back together without breaking the plastic where the screws go is even harder than removal?good thing we had another one in the spares bin!) I noticed that the contact that apparently completes the forward-for-high-beam circuit was no longer there?apparently burned away. So I raided our spares bin for a used stalk?from another year, as it has icons on it that the one in the car doesn?t, but the plug and all the wire colors matched and the ?missing? contact was there?and plugged it in while things were still apart. Still no high beams (though, like Jack, I can flash them by pulling the stalk backward), so I put everything back together with the original stalk, and try not to drive the car at night.... Help us both! Sarah Carr ?71 B/GT in PA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:38:27 -0500 From: "S. Carr" To: Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches Thanks David ? I know a replacement is available, but I?m baffled as to why the second, apparently good, unit didn?t work either.... Sarah From: David Councill via Mgs Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 10:56 AM To: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches These turn signal switch units should be readily available new from Moss Motors and other distributers. I replaced mine at one point several years ago in my 71 BGT (most parts now in my 72B). http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29081 - part number 27 Also, to be sure, test the switch while the cowl is still off to insure the high beam part is working and not partially obstructed by the cowl. David Councill 72 B 67 BGT 64 B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Mgs mailing list Mgs@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs ------------------------------ End of Mgs Digest, Vol 114, Issue 6 *********************************** --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 19 04:58:19 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6996B2588D7C for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 04:58:19 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from cpsmtpb-ews08.kpnxchange.com (cpsmtpb-ews08.kpnxchange.com [213.75.39.13]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF9C258818A for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 04:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from cpsps-ews07.kpnxchange.com ([10.94.84.174]) by cpsmtpb-ews08.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.17514); Sat, 19 Nov 2016 12:57:07 +0100 Received: from CPSMTPM-CMT102.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.18]) by cpsps-ews07.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.17514); Sat, 19 Nov 2016 12:57:07 +0100 Content-Language: nl t=1479556627; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6mco6optVg5WMsMkN7WbqrAlFeRyLrqWIHOBXbwGEj4=; b=B4ry6yveImq+NiOK5hqzqUhPuRXvDZUh9LSSDKEPaqdoelYEgtih/6a5V3CcFfAGEBt16g4qnRG ouHAX5wOnyh4yJLkvuJNSa83J7ztu9Tx3joUqZMIWIO+njfsY6S3FzV7dPxbLk0eZHkCq88dCcWbd 8n9tVkKVB/sh//NEAf8= Received: from HLaptopPC ([77.161.98.80]) by CPSMTPM-CMT102.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(8.5.9600.16384); Sat, 19 Nov 2016 12:57:07 +0100 To: "'Allen Hess'" References: Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2016 12:57:18 +0100 Thread-Index: AQJkyghywMerr5JHmrYWeq7vZlCdGQIEJ/MWn6sCZyA= FILETIME=[0D3C8460:01D2425C] Cc: mgs@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches From: Hans Duinhoven via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============2544806090959295732== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0070_01D24264.75CD5740" Content-Language: nl This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01D24264.75CD5740 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did the same with the fuel punt contacts in 1998. Never had any problem since. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT Van: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net] Namens Allen Hess via Mgs Verzonden: dinsdag 15 november 2016 23:45 Aan: mgs@autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches When I had that problem it was as simple as sanding the switch contacts to clean them of 30-40 years oxidation. Take apart and clean has solved a lot of problems. On Nov 15, 2016, at 2:00 PM, mgs-request@autox.team.net wrote: Subject: [Mgs] Question on MGB Light Switches Date: November 14, 2016 at 6:52:14 PM EST jwheeler1947@yahoo.com> I have a 1971 MGB that has a problem with the headlight switches. Before I start replacing everything and hope for the best, I thought I would ask if any of you has had a similar problem, or can suggest a possible solution. When I push bottom of the light switch (on the dash) to the first position, the parking lamps and tail lights come on. OK, so far. When I push the light switch to the second position, the headlights come on with the low beam. OK, again. Now comes the problem. When I move the stalk on the left side of the steering column forward (toward the dash), the lights go off (i.e. no high beams). If I pull this stalk all the way towards me, the high beams do come on, so the bubs are apparently OK. My first thought was that it may be the high beam/low beam and direction indicator switch located on the steering column. Does this sound right? Any other thoughts? And finally, if this is the case, is this switch available, and if so, do you have a source you would recommend. Thanks for your help. Jack Wheeler --- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01D24264.75CD5740 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I did the same with the fuel punt contacts in 1998. Never had any problem= since.

 

Cheers,

Hans=

71 BGT

 

<= div>

Van: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net= ] Namens Allen Hess via Mgs
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 november= 2016 23:45
Aan: mgs@autox.team.net
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs= ] Question on MGB Light Switches

 

When I had that prob= lem it was as simple as sanding the switch contacts to clean them of 30-40 = years oxidation. Take apart and clean has solved a lot of problems.

 

On Nov 15, 2016, at 2:00 PM, mgs-request@autox.team.net wrote:

 

From: <= /b>Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com>

Subject: [Mgs] Que= stion on MGB Light Switches

Date: November 14, 2016 at 6:52:14 P= M EST

Reply-= To: Jac= k Wheeler <jwheeler1947@yahoo.com>

=

 

I have a 1971 MGB that has a problem with th= e headlight switches.  Before I start replacing everything and hope fo= r the best, I thought I would ask if any of you has had a similar problem, = or can suggest a possible solution.



When I push bottom of t= he light switch (on the dash) to the first position, the parking lamps and = tail lights come on.  OK, so far.  When I push the light switch t= o the second position, the headlights come on with the low beam.  OK, = again.  Now comes the problem.

 

When I move the stalk on = the left side of the steering column forward (toward the dash), the lights = go off (i.e. no high beams).  If I pull this stalk all the way towards= me, the high beams do come on, so the bubs are apparently OK.



My first thought was that it may be the high beam/low beam and direc= tion indicator switch located on the steering column.  Does this sound= right?  Any other thoughts?

=

And finally, if this is t= he case, is this switch available, and if so, do you have a source you woul= d recommend.



=

Thanks for your help.

<= /div>



Jack W= heeler

 



3D"Avast

Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftw= are.
www.avast.com


------=_NextPart_000_0070_01D24264.75CD5740-- --===============2544806090959295732== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============2544806090959295732==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 28 16:44:43 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F316925887C1 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 16:44:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa12-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa12-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [68.178.252.231]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D304A25887B7 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from Aragorn ([205.197.253.4]) by :SMTPAUTH: with SMTP id BUSfcTOpZuVSZBUSgciDkc; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:31:46 -0700 To: , Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 14:31:43 -0800 Thread-Index: AdJJw8bbCdvNTuvzSsCSmzIdTOW71w== Content-Language: en-us jZXi8tnWtjofIpX4FH0spkoPR67rse9aXfe9OLktGhrrRw5AvRcX2uhli8sUIwTtbHVeLCPchKwLmA== Subject: [Mgs] Carbs still being nasty From: Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============4863091058173096042== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03CE_01D24984.242E98F0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03CE_01D24984.242E98F0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey thanks Bob for the specific help. Go to autox.team.net and change your email there. The piston drops just fine with a good clank. When the piston drops with it inside the pot is when I get problems. It goes all the way down except but the last little bit. Sometimes the piston is hard to lift but the moves fine. I have no oil in at all. To add to this, I started having gas bubbling out the jet. I checked the float bowl and it was drained. It seemed like the gas hadn't even come in through valve and the float was at the bottom and dry. I checked in water and it was buoyant and only had a small piece of solder inside. I am waiting for a new one all the same. When it rains, it pours. Also, when I've been able to get it running at around 900, it slowly drops and dies unless I goose the throttle. Clayton ------=_NextPart_000_03CE_01D24984.242E98F0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey thanks Bob for the specific help. Go to = autox.team.net and change your email there. The piston drops just fine = with a good clank. When the piston drops with it inside the pot is when = I get problems. It goes all the way down except but the last little bit. = Sometimes the piston is hard to lift but the moves fine. I have no oil = in at all.

 

To add to this, I started having gas bubbling out the = jet. I checked the float bowl and it was drained. It seemed like the gas = hadn’t even come in through valve and the float was at the bottom = and dry. I checked in water and it was buoyant and only had a small = piece of solder inside. I am waiting for a new one all the = same.

 

When it rains, it pours.

 

Also, when = I’ve been able to get it running at around 900, it slowly drops = and dies unless I goose the throttle.

 

Clayton

------=_NextPart_000_03CE_01D24984.242E98F0-- --===============4863091058173096042== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============4863091058173096042==-- From mgs-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 29 06:23:46 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516672588A30 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 06:23:46 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: mgs@autox.team.net Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-11.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-11.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.75]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F4F25888D8 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 06:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from paul ([77.98.12.176]) by know-smtprelay-11-imp with bizsmtp id DpNN1u0073nu4tZ01pNNTS; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 13:22:22 +0000 a=aujsr3nizyhkvTcDIHoCrQ==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=hLRs3lh2CDcYea2HNA8A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=ddoLc1fcWWDN3m4_NR0A:9 a=0CoSOXeYYhYzRjRW:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=zjWhRoSqWz9hl55Hdlzg:22 a=BKKCjISod1eDJeS0ORpz:22 To: , , References: <03cd01d249c7$32513cb0$96f3b610$@godblessthe.us> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:56:09 -0000 Subject: Re: [Mgs] Carbs still being nasty From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs Errors-To: mgs-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1264113433156808024== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C8_01D24A3F.F4646160" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01D24A3F.F4646160 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been having posting to and receiving messages from MGS lately, but = got this, so here goes: If you have HS cabs then if the jet has not been centred correctly the = piston won't fully descend, which can cause stalling. Wind the jet down as far as it can go and see if that allows the piston = to fully fall. If it does not, then there is another problem such as a = bent needle, piston binding against the cover, etc. If the piston fully drops with the piston lowered, then wind the jet up = to be flush with the bridge while you recentre the jet, then you can be = sure that with the jet wound back down to its normal running position it = will be clear. Jet will bubble up out of the jet, with the ignition on, if the = vent/overflow plumbing is blocked. This goes via the charcoal canister = if that is what you have. The idle with HS carbs (unlike HIF carbs) will gradually fall if left = idling long enough, like several minutes. But if it drops sooner than = that try pressing the butterfly cams onto the idle screws as soon as you = release the throttle, and see if that makes it idle lower straight away. = If it does then the butterflies aren't returning fully, which could be = them binding in the carb throat, insufficient return spring pressure, = binding linkages, insufficient free-play on the throttle cable, etc. PaulH. ----- Original Message -----=20 The piston drops just fine with a good clank. When the piston drops = with it inside the pot is when I get problems. It goes all the way down = except but the last little bit.... ------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01D24A3F.F4646160 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've been having posting to and receiving messages = from MGS=20 lately, but got this, so here goes:
 
If you have HS cabs then if the jet has not been = centred=20 correctly the piston won't fully descend, which can cause = stalling.
 
Wind the jet down as far as it can go and see if = that allows=20 the piston to fully fall.  If it does not, then there is another = problem=20 such as a bent needle, piston binding against the cover, = etc.
 
If the piston fully drops with the piston lowered, = then=20 wind the jet up to be flush with the bridge while = you=20 recentre the jet, then you can be sure that with the jet wound back down = to its=20 normal running position it will be clear.
 
Jet will bubble up out of the jet, with the ignition = on, if=20 the vent/overflow plumbing is blocked.  This goes via the charcoal = canister=20 if that is what you have.
 
The idle with HS carbs (unlike HIF carbs) will = gradually fall=20 if left idling long enough, like several minutes.  But if it drops = sooner=20 than that try pressing the butterfly cams onto the idle screws as soon = as you=20 release the throttle, and see if that makes it idle lower straight = away. =20 If it does then the butterflies aren't returning fully, which could be = them=20 binding in the carb throat, insufficient return spring pressure, binding = linkages, insufficient free-play on the throttle cable, = etc.
 
PaulH.
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message = ----- 
The piston drops just fine with a good clank. When the piston = drops with=20 it inside the pot is when I get problems. It goes all the way down = except but=20 the last little bit....
------=_NextPart_000_00C8_01D24A3F.F4646160-- --===============1264113433156808024== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mgs@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net --===============1264113433156808024==--