From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 1 13:56:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD7382588202 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 13:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f47.google.com (mail-vk0-f47.google.com [209.85.213.47]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCAC2587FBA for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 13:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vkaw128 with SMTP id w128so63464155vka.2 for ; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:51:03 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=AQvoq3RbHkv87hgoqGu+U1bqMtLarZXjo+NHM6GQcp4=; b=TlhTgbTTJAGBkBLV5LVq6ILTZ1E1PBVxq9b1DBZu/lvqbyR7V7ReovWX/7uVpLDp5w +fF7JQX3VLN+wIE5Z76M4wFPGTNEIvgihsAc+xmAs+9yyVsLpRi5xN+qbcwpdlccJ9IH Vj0vr4FAMRorYR5oxdymTeO/TTWVEAvWaHFUgTWMk/Wmr97NKobkHQXZfQaN1BRhwAP/ FGLn/MFwbn0lQDQTkcLHwwakPKTtK2EVSzjp4xeYM+iYwakXhv+aGJEYjPWc53/muLDA AEA1cEi38+NqFSrNK4ZTiPXHSWkQgbvfxXALKNF/6njY7L7Ifib55HCDX71OdsuA1BdH jflw== o7mr32410482vdb.15.1441137063147; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.200.1 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 12:50:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Hall Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 14:50:23 -0500 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Wiring for DSL Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net New house has two options for internet: Frontier DSL and Mediacom coax. Mediacom wants a $100 'setup' fee and has a usage cap. Yes, I called back to make sure it was still 2015 and that I hadn't fallen into a time warp to 1989. In Bolivia. So...DSL it is. The house--and I'm not making this up--has no working phone jacks in it. There were only two in the whole house anyway. This thing was built BEFORE phones to begin with, and they never wired the whole thing? Anyway, they've got to punch a new hole through to the outside and they want to do it in the basement. Fair enough, no one will mess with it there. Problem: the free modem is also a modem and wifi router, and the guy assures me it won't reach to the third floor, where I'm living while I destroy the rest of the house. I'd like to do this once and right. Any advice? Modem in the basement, wifi routers on each floor for good coverage? Any advice on how to set up those routers, or which to get? Ideally I'd use the same network ID and could just go from room to room/floor to floor seamlessly. I'm willing to tear out walls for wires if I need to. A website to peruse would also work if this is too newb to go into. Thanks. Scott _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 1 14:26:11 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5A6258815E for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 14:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yk0-f180.google.com (mail-yk0-f180.google.com [209.85.160.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADBE2258783D for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 14:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ykei199 with SMTP id i199so2027339yke.0 for ; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Oe9xAtIO7gm0+7FSsjCEL+JjMmvUIdivw+SbdtSxk94=; b=OuF8Ir0G2mVUlYbyx2LCoVpUYik70LWlrKN3dwOTQZN/A+07GCMqKbB+J7fofsKB9C ikdyCPnsOz4NfKk25CyM1YsTOxlacyrQL17zEi3VIKBQgHEvZfGMD1/7LQdE1YULkNfq r00XUmwg0MxjuHgINjVg90Ht9lVARnaMcZRUxTk6xA3VrP8AwACWYWaPK8bGCv0tYM+6 kcjMsTjPkdSp6NmSYkOllsqbevKfGqC+jxJiNAQmXXBhqbZ4A36U5aNN06fgmhO0IbS7 KBcyMNmMGlXJjNaGD93JzrXwtv1JIeeHuzJsQFpnmB3rTGn7NB9tPdQreoQFEWivQkfS 3U3w== k81mr325662ykf.19.1441138378318; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.226.214 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 15:12:58 -0500 From: John Innis To: Scott Hall Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wiring for DSL Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net How big is the house? We have a modem in the basement, wi-fi router in the basement and have good coverage over the whole house (two story + basement 1500sq ft each floor). You could probably use a hard wire ethernet connection from your modem to a wi-fi router on the 1st or 2nd floor and cover the whole house that way. BUT a lot will depend on how big the house is, what the walls and floors are made of and how much interference is present in the area. You may have to do a little trial and error to get it working the way you want. We use an ASUS Dark Night A66u N900 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320091 bought in 2012, has worked great for us ever since. On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Scott Hall wrote: > New house has two options for internet: Frontier DSL and Mediacom coax. > > Mediacom wants a $100 'setup' fee and has a usage cap. Yes, I called back > to make sure it was still 2015 and that I hadn't fallen into a time warp to > 1989. In Bolivia. > > So...DSL it is. > > The house--and I'm not making this up--has no working phone jacks in it. > There were only two in the whole house anyway. This thing was built BEFORE > phones to begin with, and they never wired the whole thing? > > Anyway, they've got to punch a new hole through to the outside and they > want to do it in the basement. Fair enough, no one will mess with it there. > Problem: the free modem is also a modem and wifi router, and the guy > assures me it won't reach to the third floor, where I'm living while I > destroy the rest of the house. > > I'd like to do this once and right. Any advice? > > Modem in the basement, wifi routers on each floor for good coverage? Any > advice on how to set up those routers, or which to get? Ideally I'd use the > same network ID and could just go from room to room/floor to floor > seamlessly. I'm willing to tear out walls for wires if I need to. A > website to peruse would also work if this is too newb to go into. > > Thanks. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 1 14:41:22 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AAB2588170 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 14:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8752587987 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 14:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.116]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id BwZ31r0042XD5SV01wZNi6; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 20:33:22 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.22] ([73.47.127.174]) by resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id BwZN1r00G3lta6101wZPYW; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 20:33:23 +0000 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: From: "Peter J. Thomas" Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 16:33:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 s=q20140121; t=1441139602; bh=AGbmu0egwr4IBhuVjHCkDg8jXtw65ygsnFVA8yuhkvU=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=VfEwWUEpHHsYhd+oY236wpkGOejgXsdhf2U0UNcsn/gZwJVtLVmvwTw443QqMzdHr YjQk6MrDe5gzFZ7NfFziMzcmetHpWT/3XBaDVKzYFdE0tZilaC/qC4rJhUkc8mtnkQ 3DBLb68ouhFnhTTLaeglRJzpnxkaD7FWA7i9XWlLuQ/c3UGduchiEfO8raDmnP4pzf ZMxBUtkgfyOYT4aOGPcWs3WW/DrUdnuqbGldEsdZwTbJnsHmCR893Ka6OZ8CZngB8P By0anDjpQIktDwiS0hsIbUkGcEsVVHQ1XJ0EPBuJjb/xww49WYbwotVzS4OxHSsXv0 6TdTpzk7bf/nw== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wiring for DSL Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 9/1/2015 3:50 PM, Scott Hall wrote: > New house has two options for internet: Frontier DSL and Mediacom coax. > > Mediacom wants a $100 'setup' fee and has a usage cap. Yes, I called back > to make sure it was still 2015 and that I hadn't fallen into a time warp to > 1989. In Bolivia. > > So...DSL it is. > > The house--and I'm not making this up--has no working phone jacks in it. > There were only two in the whole house anyway. This thing was built BEFORE > phones to begin with, and they never wired the whole thing? > > Anyway, they've got to punch a new hole through to the outside and they > want to do it in the basement. Fair enough, no one will mess with it there. > Problem: the free modem is also a modem and wifi router, and the guy > assures me it won't reach to the third floor, where I'm living while I > destroy the rest of the house. > > I'd like to do this once and right. Any advice? > > Modem in the basement, wifi routers on each floor for good coverage? Any > advice on how to set up those routers, or which to get? Ideally I'd use the > same network ID and could just go from room to room/floor to floor > seamlessly. I'm willing to tear out walls for wires if I need to. A > website to peruse would also work if this is too newb to go into. > > Thanks. Place a good wifi router in the center of the house, top to bottom, end to end. Wire that router the modem. Don't use the wifi in the "free" router/modem except for non-mobile devices near the it. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 1 16:27:25 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D7C52588297 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 16:27:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78E325876ED for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 16:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.111]) by resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id ByQM1r0042Qkjl901ySJ9J; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 22:26:18 +0000 Received: from resmail-ch2-322v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.49.101]) by resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id BySJ1r00C2Azwqi01ySJtW; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 22:26:18 +0000 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 22:26:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Gordie Bird To: "Peter J. Thomas" References: <55E60B96.60401@comcast.net> (Win)/8.0.7_GA_6031) Thread-Topic: Wiring for DSL Thread-Index: apl7Yb4sdlDowkyK7WwG2GHK57Zfgg== s=q20140121; t=1441146378; bh=yHV1/bah9+jlmBVj6ATFLM7nTdUXj7b6CDk+VEKR9pE=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=UjI2CBXIMqfSNi/cnKnbO2n/lV5fhPlpbjI83Q6Q4vQdCgwTo82d2yVCNcl7PdtPm OnX2DurpZuqfVPBfT+R0IIeSho1RzZo//Kay0u5rQQNOyB/o/Q5kssrreXAyA57hMJ odpTnKGbAr+vx+8AEax0nlODnab6ABRkefh9DN8NWxFP1+VoOYyd9xT7FNSJk+KNwx oicIOLCRdtJD6buqZ5Dd8rq8IAAuuFzYowQceyrsTJvHpo5Tg6wacZVeypjYJLuFcC +n2I23C+EQXnX2Kxk0RnRRQxlar4fAQZc9nGyuDqzTh5nDl25IiU98gE5+aKyfcq0L SlsRR/tnSjLUg== Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wiring for DSL Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I did this exact thing, hardwired (cat 5e or 6) from cable wifi modem (in basement) to router on second floor. Use router for wifi. My cable modem was smart enough that it recognized the second router and allowed it control of the IP addresses in the network. Surprised me and the tech support guy I was talking too. ----- Original Message ----- On 9/1/2015 3:50 PM, Scott Hall wrote: > New house has two options for internet: Frontier DSL and Mediacom coax. > > Mediacom wants a $100 'setup' fee and has a usage cap. Yes, I called back > to make sure it was still 2015 and that I hadn't fallen into a time warp to > 1989. In Bolivia. > > So...DSL it is. > > The house--and I'm not making this up--has no working phone jacks in it. > There were only two in the whole house anyway. This thing was built BEFORE > phones to begin with, and they never wired the whole thing? > > Anyway, they've got to punch a new hole through to the outside and they > want to do it in the basement. Fair enough, no one will mess with it there. > Problem: the free modem is also a modem and wifi router, and the guy > assures me it won't reach to the third floor, where I'm living while I > destroy the rest of the house. > > I'd like to do this once and right. Any advice? > > Modem in the basement, wifi routers on each floor for good coverage? Any > advice on how to set up those routers, or which to get? Ideally I'd use the > same network ID and could just go from room to room/floor to floor > seamlessly. I'm willing to tear out walls for wires if I need to. A > website to peruse would also work if this is too newb to go into. > > Thanks. Place a good wifi router in the center of the house, top to bottom, end to end. Wire that router the modem. Don't use the wifi in the "free" router/modem except for non-mobile devices near the it. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 1 21:00:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B911E2588382 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E2A2587C45 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 20:52:00 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=TEBRL6QFa9cZtjwgNtzWs6u2GhUGDOtc3B9+Ed3HNBCCoCO9rGW0BPA+jQItyTdt; h=Received:Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.6.9.201] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWy9W-0006he-N7; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 22:51:58 -0400 To: Scott Hall , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: From: Brian Kemp Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 19:51:22 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wiring for DSL Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I also agree to get a second router to serve as your main wireless connection. My house was wired with about 10 phone jacks (3 bedroom 2 story), but the wires were in bad shape and DSL wouldn't work, so we disconnected all but 2 jacks. My wife kept having her printer drop off network, so I got a second router and ran a 100' cat 6 cable up to the new router near her computer and printer. The free router is also probably a low end one. It is best just to use it to receive the DSL and have a good one for wireless. My wife's signal is much better - less drops and faster - with my newer Trendnet router instead of the AT&T free one, even when I moved her laptop to the same room as the AT&T router. If you have a chase of some sort, you may be able to get the cable to a good central location. Since you appear to have some renovations, hopefully it is easy to at least get up to the second floor. People say wireless is the future, but I did a balcony replacement and added some empty conduit from my computer area to my crawlspace in case I ever needed it. This conduit made it easy to run the cable to the second modem. If you have walls down, running some empty 3/4" PVC conduit to empty boxes might be a good idea. You may want to run fiber in a decade to stream your ultra super duper high def video so you don't radiate yourself. PCV conduit is cheap and easy to run. I don't think it is code, but if you have a HVAC duct, that may also be a place you could run a cable. Brian On 9/1/2015 12:50 PM, Scott Hall wrote: > New house has two options for internet: Frontier DSL and Mediacom coax. > > Mediacom wants a $100 'setup' fee and has a usage cap. Yes, I called back > to make sure it was still 2015 and that I hadn't fallen into a time warp to > 1989. In Bolivia. > > So...DSL it is. > > The house--and I'm not making this up--has no working phone jacks in it. > There were only two in the whole house anyway. This thing was built BEFORE > phones to begin with, and they never wired the whole thing? > > Anyway, they've got to punch a new hole through to the outside and they > want to do it in the basement. Fair enough, no one will mess with it there. > Problem: the free modem is also a modem and wifi router, and the guy > assures me it won't reach to the third floor, where I'm living while I > destroy the rest of the house. > > I'd like to do this once and right. Any advice? > > Modem in the basement, wifi routers on each floor for good coverage? Any > advice on how to set up those routers, or which to get? Ideally I'd use the > same network ID and could just go from room to room/floor to floor > seamlessly. I'm willing to tear out walls for wires if I need to. A > website to peruse would also work if this is too newb to go into. > > Thanks. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 14:41:06 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C1F258A8D9 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 14:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f179.google.com (mail-ig0-f179.google.com [209.85.213.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8985F25850CE for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 13:49:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igbni9 with SMTP id ni9so85781797igb.0 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:49:37 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GPgb1SCz/oTODDesRiMLfnMqr10NcdrplaJGkdb350w=; b=Nst3aRjHsIyFODNkykeLZw66A1aqQzXP2vHECDu83Vt1sXu3DLFAzq2/Gw2P22MsoU Vp/ykSxm0rhbfxKYnw98/rNCXDEkw8tyVYpBS0xJJ+C42X5Hs2oinx9VRdtorjT9nCCz VCgAznSWMZhFz2DdNw8d5HazABjudzd22USsnDTifRFTjmUUvyIrMg0mCvBaFrpZeRQY iGZ6Ea33Tj/lAz4TextSi22Yih187AvIOwDqDhu6IiGkX1h/kXSNS+cskMpKrxenf+Hx gMWreYGvcrKcg0FhmVRLVdyt8Fd1dpDflBZUjDmvKSIgWv5bLpuWlGn1qBl8zbPmaA6+ SK0w== sd10mr13554992igb.5.1441741776968; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 12:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 15:49:36 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: Shop Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sometime in the next 6 months or so I'm thinking about buying an enclosed car trailer for hauling my TR6 behind my motorhome. For those of you who may have been down this road I'd like to ask a few questions: 1) Did you use E-track for tying the car down? 2) If you used E-track how did you fasten it to the floor? 3) If you used E-track how hard is it to tire bonnets with ratchets on a small car like a TR6? 4) If you didn't use E-track how did you tie the car down? 5) Did you get an extended tongue? 6) Would you prefer a torsion axle over leaf springs? 7) Did you get any 120vac wiring installed or did you wire it yourself for 120vac? 8) Did you opt for a roof top air conditioner? 9) Did you buy a 7' wide, 8' wide or 8'-6" wide trailer? And why did you select that width? Ok maybe more than a few questions! Thanks! Brad _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 15:55:31 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB662588F2C for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 15:55:31 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm13-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm13-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.143]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A924258B3A5 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 15:30:45 -0600 (MDT) s=s2048; t=1441747859; bh=FhPSD0BvMWhJA32heqp1/qbXbJ1IQrbT7BHwXkYmJi4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject; b=UWHP+ZaQOXLoz/NVF+ivun4ViPXCnBb68MJsh5+iCwt7t7YsgQQzQS+kJxbq3xPkZosUTR63lIu1wL81bcidC/cTFlbloaQigFUhm0XPr6PWgEWgVNsWGrl55DSTxupAWMWYBBUNShlJ1xl79qh2ADvIUV3c7uS3hVSRHIMMfrPlHUG4yZyF25nRmUdNslgC8jlNaxuFPwakWhhwAssGkZAU4D62f59jAqHtr3T+2awXnk0SIGmTOOz20ywMyQaXI56pigEpLIAvSugLMmpNU0/KinnCX96KRHQBX1Y4vZDRcuMJDJCxrB8C37cqwqniZEr7jV9/cpByeB4nsigWvw== Received: from [98.138.101.132] by nm13.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2015 21:30:59 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.116] by tm20.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2015 21:30:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp225.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2015 21:30:59 -0000 TEKZiObvGtg3pVZl73B4BPy9CACLCyzEqbFKXIsSs8gygxPQwPjlaz32yTTy 6ylmRtd6QHF5tZswxkQtE1ixNDY2ILRm9cjRfePMWGimtnFwTtRWrQ4W89nr _I8z8zUonWLVEQfRyoqAEEyVbXHvvoqti7t.zpON2pqMkw0_SHuooHMJFCH4 276ooVvoXzF4KUuh7cqseeCSB1M3P.NNJsr8lZcG7HmQZKCSDNoaDWLJh71Y woLr8tYwngEmm8Yv1dv1Rx8KXYGGMhG6bMrbJ5tBy.TtINBIv_TKLd9NSTHl a_mEL..QS5FsftkwmT0A5e1QzHaysx6.ucASNzS5NxOKmH.rQ1RIsBh9Vjsm fL8EnsqW1Ub2cYk7povC1upLQ.hhffq06FeK70c7bBP.TbNdOo158Qomr4K9 4vrDAiGc8bKMdWex4r2QTi.1iUBrovYpWNvOMeThGc24Q4s1hXKYlbn1rmGX hAWMJ7qEiu.asrtECpa1RCgKVkuhWZJ1LPfGzSBuYh3iQhngGtgApOwmhgdt XxMpNc5iot5U- From: Jim Juhas Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 17:30:56 -0400 References: To: Brad Kahler Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Brad Kahler wrote: > > Sometime in the next 6 months or so I'm thinking about buying an enclosed > car trailer for hauling my TR6 behind my motorhome. > > For those of you who may have been down this road I'd like to ask a few > questions: > > 1) Did you use E-track for tying the car down? No but use it to hold other stuff down, and on the walls. > > 2) If you used E-track how did you fasten it to the floor? One inch wood screws into the deck. Lots of them, every hole. > > 3) If you used E-track how hard is it to tire bonnets with ratchets on a > small car like a TR6? Haven't tied the car down with that. I tie to recessed rings in the floor, two front, two rear, with ratchets hooking to dedicated welded loops on the crossmember in front if, under the spring axle mounts in rear (live axle, though.) > > 4) If you didn't use E-track how did you tie the car down? See above > > 5) Did you get an extended tongue? No > > 6) Would you prefer a torsion axle over leaf springs? Springs but hard to find I think. > > 7) Did you get any 120vac wiring installed or did you wire it yourself for > 120vac? Not yet > > 8) Did you opt for a roof top air conditioner? No > > 9) Did you buy a 7' wide, 8' wide or 8'-6" wide trailer? And why did you > select that width? 8'6" to accommodate my Mustang and like cars, and walk around space and in/out ability with my MGA. > > Ok maybe more than a few questions! > > Thanks! > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james.f.juhas@snet.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 16:25:08 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1FB258A8CF for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 16:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from omr-a010e.mx.aol.com (omr-a010e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D1F2588FD2 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 16:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaomg-mcd02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mcd02.mx.aol.com [172.26.223.208]) by omr-a010e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id A29E0380004C; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-moa03a.mail.aol.com (core-moa03.mail.aol.com [172.27.97.13]) by mtaomg-mcd02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 6E15A38000081; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 68.188.78.74 by webprd-m28.mail.aol.com (10.74.56.225) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 08 Sep 2015 18:03:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:03:24 -0400 From: Dave To: bkahler1@gmail.com, shop-talk@autox.team.net References: x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20150623; t=1441749804; bh=0p1KT6jgphxoUHwGel6NKjtywdFNQU9a9JuNyF8sSS4=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=g3CXoh1CNP7YwngYnNN9X4r4lsryajHePUNFbLSTDf05QCf9rprO9pfvfV5OAih5S ZAd5pvo46kmzJ7psW8LfxlnyKXnnWG5buV4nvvhjVLgc6SkASWhKGiQq9l0NqMtXQS 4uuS0mldEVJzzhhyuwaEYRRO/6b6WKCgCApkJibM= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1adfd055ef5b2c5d96 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Although not an enclosed trailer, I fitted the trailer I used with E-track. I used wheel nets (or whatever they are called) to secure the four tires to the trailer leaving the car to move freely about on its suspension. I secured the E-track to the trailer boards with through-bolts (stainless, of course) with nuts and fender washers underneath. About every third - fourth hole focusing on the areas where the ratchet straps connect. I cannot address any other questions. 120 Vac and AC sounds rather posh. I'd be tempted to live in it when I'm not traveling. Dave Massey -----Original Message----- From: Brad Kahler To: Shop Talk List Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2015 4:17 pm Subject: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Sometime in the next 6 months or so I'm thinking about buying an enclosed car trailer for hauling my TR6 behind my motorhome. For those of you who may have been down this road I'd like to ask a few questions: 1) Did you use E-track for tying the car down? 2) If you used E-track how did you fasten it to the floor? 3) If you used E-track how hard is it to tire bonnets with ratchets on a small car like a TR6? 4) If you didn't use E-track how did you tie the car down? 5) Did you get an extended tongue? 6) Would you prefer a torsion axle over leaf springs? 7) Did you get any 120vac wiring installed or did you wire it yourself for 120vac? 8) Did you opt for a roof top air conditioner? 9) Did you buy a 7' wide, 8' wide or 8'-6" wide trailer? And why did you select that width? Ok maybe more than a few questions! Thanks! Brad _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 17:54:56 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF8A258B1F9 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 17:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11CCD25891C7 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 17:37:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id D251A8FF10; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7288FC0E; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:37:54 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: Brad Kahler References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Brad Kahler wrote: > For those of you who may have been down this road I'd like to ask a few > questions: I may or may not be the right guy to ask... I'm on trailer number 4 at the moment. > 1) Did you use E-track for tying the car down? > 2) If you used E-track how did you fasten it to the floor? Yes and no. I installed E-track in the floor of my current trailer ( it came with full wall E-track ). I used it for a while, but in my particular case, it did not work well. I haul an iceracer in the trailer, and the snow and ice falls off the car, and collects in the E-track, where it re-freezes and renders the track useless. The same thing happens with dirt, but slower. Eventually I put a couple 6K lb D-rings in, and use those instead. The track still comes in handy for moving furniture and the like. I bolted it through the floor every foot, with washers, and then screwed every other hole into the floor as well. > 3) If you used E-track how hard is it to tire bonnets with ratchets on a > small car like a TR6? Dunno, never used bonnets as my cars have always had tie-down points. > 4) If you didn't use E-track how did you tie the car down? Ratchet straps from Lodi Metals in Ohio, run to 6k D-rings at each corner. If you are only ever going to haul cars, this is the way to go. I made some 1/4" aluminum backing plates on my Plasmacam, drilled 4" diameter holes with a holesaw, and bolted them in. > 5) Did you get an extended tongue? No. The only time I ever wanted one was when I installed a tongue box. There wasn't room between the WD hitch brackets and the front wall for a traditional box, so I had to use a truck-bed side box lightly modified. > 6) Would you prefer a torsion axle over leaf springs? Yes. There's a reason they are an added cost option virtually everywhere. > 7) Did you get any 120vac wiring installed or did you wire it yourself for > 120vac? My current trailer was previously owned by a guy who hauled a junior dragster to the track for his kid. He finished the interior walls, and wired it with 120v and even surround sound, because they'd sit and play videos games in it during downtime at the track. That said, I have only used the 120v when working ON the trailer... like when putting in a new floor, and installing d-rings, and such. > 8) Did you opt for a roof top air conditioner? No, but mine sits in storage all summer and mainly gets used in the dead of winter. > 9) Did you buy a 7' wide, 8' wide or 8'-6" wide trailer? And why did you > select that width? I have had all three widths. You couldn't give me a 7 again. I wouldn't buy an 8. I can't think of any reason to go skinny, maybe unless you are wedging it into a garage. I bought a 7 because it was cheap, from a friend, and my car fit in it ( just ). Then I bought an 8, because I learned my lesson. Now I have an 8.5', because I'm a slow learner ;) -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 19:10:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0C0258B0ED for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com (mail-ig0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896FD258857E for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igbkq10 with SMTP id kq10so87860196igb.0 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:43:01 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ZezsRrQYqd48DyTj/XGfB07J0ix58+SZY2PmCkGXtAw=; b=OiMt3XlIEK6utcsi+6PVuIzBPgukathjY8CHo4BAzqlBJ2zx1J8sTVcVx2xLdMZbel 8Y0tQFBRat+9ixTtREknSC7SPzJqb25dwLGzhyfe/J4e7VghYvt2tD+z1E3vOCT+QNNl 81FiO2oxQJs3K9+4QxUD/uwp7YjLNrkxHBKptyZ2dwn9PoZtmUZ42Acz72dLIw5bMH18 1hCm/L5i4hQ5KeXv/w4rtJVXs9Ki8wbSf6yE1kuvI3lgGxeInHc24vLCVwZC043kFOG1 A0WWJhMo80zpifjI4X1V69duWhVsiHb3K0WlkVa4V6boe33HVFJxfy4D9bVLbQCVKbt6 cKZA== a4mr46765394igo.49.1441759381383; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 17:43:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <634FCC5C-B297-401A-8F36-2E5EA08D923A@snet.net> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 20:43:01 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: Jim Juhas Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim, thanks for the feedback. It's always interesting to hear how other people go about dealing with similar projects. At first I was really into the idea of using e-track but I'm starting to think it might be more hassle trying to get access to the wheels and be able to use a ratchet in the tight wheel wells. The trailer I'm looking at comes with 4 D-rings installed which will likely be all I need. I do like the idea of e-track on the walls though. Thanks! brad On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Jim Juhas wrote: > > > On Sep 8, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Brad Kahler wrote: > > > > Sometime in the next 6 months or so I'm thinking about buying an enclosed > > car trailer for hauling my TR6 behind my motorhome. > > > > For those of you who may have been down this road I'd like to ask a few > > questions: > > > > 1) Did you use E-track for tying the car down? > No but use it to hold other stuff down, and on the walls. > > > > 2) If you used E-track how did you fasten it to the floor? > One inch wood screws into the deck. Lots of them, every hole. > > > > > 3) If you used E-track how hard is it to tire bonnets with ratchets on a > > small car like a TR6? > Haven't tied the car down with that. I tie to recessed rings in the floor, > two front, two rear, with ratchets hooking to dedicated welded loops on the > crossmember in front if, under the spring axle mounts in rear (live axle, > though.) > > > > 4) If you didn't use E-track how did you tie the car down? > See above > > > > 5) Did you get an extended tongue? > No > > > > 6) Would you prefer a torsion axle over leaf springs? > Springs but hard to find I think. > > > > 7) Did you get any 120vac wiring installed or did you wire it yourself > for > > 120vac? > Not yet > > > > 8) Did you opt for a roof top air conditioner? > No > > > > 9) Did you buy a 7' wide, 8' wide or 8'-6" wide trailer? And why did > you > > select that width? > 8'6" to accommodate my Mustang and like cars, and walk around space and > in/out ability with my MGA. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 19:11:02 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B35258B41E for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f177.google.com (mail-io0-f177.google.com [209.85.223.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004D82588EC8 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iofb144 with SMTP id b144so4582101iof.1 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:46:18 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=PQSTzIKStt00S9G7yKeRB3gdRBvk0fhwmXqJRtlexmo=; b=rhqn1Szf+W+FbGMliKjyvi85XOYcyxIjDoFiug0bNwHVZRf6tmVtIOSqwajooYTeoJ YqnlyP5GE2s7W+vlrqN1huCUH7l1jpQORW+vBtYkiXv3chLfCkE9m9AGWqgXhw0OJZbg Qf7EasbIludnngK8OoHfZj7PW8hfAyeSWe3XsDRAMLKaoNnXzd16ln7oR5mcxMqrfTKs DzIItwrOW/ygN5xA0falTs9Y8P/BBNuqzpOKdnqShzE5RDvRPTfn/7eCTOoM+HDt09IL m85HuhIADpIhdO/MONdUgDKatX+SSeyG4UQ7BhK7pDgF1SL6+cbIjAdFby2xtzEBucgT ykng== m124mr43224708ioe.85.1441759578831; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 17:46:18 -0700 (PDT) References: <14faefc23f2-6d36-25c28@webprd-m28.mail.aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 20:46:18 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: Dave Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Dave, nice seeing you an Linda at the convention :) How much room do you have for the ratchet straps when using the wheel nets (bonnets)? I'm starting to think that in the confined spaces of an enclosed trailer it might be somewhat of a pain to try get the wheel nets around the wheels. I'm not certain that I will install AC but I do want the trailer wired and frame for it....just in case :) On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Dave wrote: > Although not an enclosed trailer, I fitted the trailer I used with > E-track. I used wheel nets (or whatever they are called) to secure the > four tires to the trailer leaving the car to move freely about on its > suspension. I secured the E-track to the trailer boards with through-bolts > (stainless, of course) with nuts and fender washers underneath. About > every third - fourth hole focusing on the areas where the ratchet straps > connect. > > I cannot address any other questions. 120 Vac and AC sounds rather posh. > I'd be tempted to live in it when I'm not traveling. > > Dave Massey _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 19:12:58 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D3A258B5EE for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f173.google.com (mail-ig0-f173.google.com [209.85.213.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3366C25891A9 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igxx6 with SMTP id x6so3024351igx.1 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:50:56 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=BxqmDRH8UEu/2Psj+cleNYtAGWeqdkc9VpjF3qWQXa4=; b=Mdkhd3koiXzvn7SVgmIscDjdkFIwR92VnPmIkNZegDJlgDLb4ST7yz8cj37zXF7Ioy 8eTp3i4zDTMVqT9YSwRFSBVbrYj95bv8Vfvvxb7tPzUN0K+L7FEJP+IlrlMpJGAhLQ8V MQhHSOEBJEL9AQua/jqwEAulRw+iiH+SOict1oEe+9wYnHeQ0Bx3UC6vQqmdrIs5KoJM RXYtak0QLAKSLc1SUrx7Ufx3Qc3CLfEmm7ucl2JEEWWdu9VS7qRBSi5o8Ajc9e4i2JVW Wvy868J+1/W1RlUy5Y7CRIHQEwak9W4fIhmzA1wkafu8K7rhuZnUZz/17IcHdxJtFko1 oEYg== w9mr47315049igl.38.1441759856099; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 17:50:56 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 20:50:56 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: David Hillman Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net David, thanks for the feedback. I'm hoping if/when I buy an enclosed trailer I get it right the first time! I can see where 3-track would be a problem considering what you're transporting. Seems like the responses I've been getting favor D-rings over e-track for vehicle tie down. Maybe I should learn something here :) I've never owned or used a trailer with the torsion springs which is why I'm interested in the difference. I think it's something like a $300 adder. Your comments about trailer width pretty much indicate I should go with the 8'-6" trailer width. Makes sense. Thanks! Brad On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 7:37 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Brad Kahler wrote: > >> For those of you who may have been down this road I'd like to ask a few >> questions: >> > > I may or may not be the right guy to ask... I'm on trailer number 4 at > the moment. > > 1) Did you use E-track for tying the car down? >> 2) If you used E-track how did you fasten it to the floor? >> > > Yes and no. I installed E-track in the floor of my current trailer ( > it came with full wall E-track ). I used it for a while, but in my > particular case, it did not work well. I haul an iceracer in the trailer, > and the snow and ice falls off the car, and collects in the E-track, where > it re-freezes and renders the track useless. The same thing happens with > dirt, but slower. Eventually I put a couple 6K lb D-rings in, and use > those instead. The track still comes in handy for moving furniture and the > like. > > I bolted it through the floor every foot, with washers, and then > screwed every other hole into the floor as well. > > 3) If you used E-track how hard is it to tire bonnets with ratchets on a >> small car like a TR6? >> > > Dunno, never used bonnets as my cars have always had tie-down points. > > 4) If you didn't use E-track how did you tie the car down? >> > > Ratchet straps from Lodi Metals in Ohio, run to 6k D-rings at each > corner. If you are only ever going to haul cars, this is the way to go. I > made some 1/4" aluminum backing plates on my Plasmacam, drilled 4" diameter > holes with a holesaw, and bolted them in. > > > > 5) Did you get an extended tongue? >> > > No. The only time I ever wanted one was when I installed a tongue box. > There wasn't room between the WD hitch brackets and the front wall for a > traditional box, so I had to use a truck-bed side box lightly modified. > > 6) Would you prefer a torsion axle over leaf springs? >> > > Yes. There's a reason they are an added cost option virtually > everywhere. > > 7) Did you get any 120vac wiring installed or did you wire it yourself for >> 120vac? >> > > My current trailer was previously owned by a guy who hauled a junior > dragster to the track for his kid. He finished the interior walls, and > wired it with 120v and even surround sound, because they'd sit and play > videos games in it during downtime at the track. > > That said, I have only used the 120v when working ON the trailer... > like when putting in a new floor, and installing d-rings, and such. > > 8) Did you opt for a roof top air conditioner? >> > > No, but mine sits in storage all summer and mainly gets used in the > dead of winter. > > 9) Did you buy a 7' wide, 8' wide or 8'-6" wide trailer? And why did you >> select that width? >> > > I have had all three widths. You couldn't give me a 7 again. I > wouldn't buy an 8. I can't think of any reason to go skinny, maybe unless > you are wedging it into a garage. I bought a 7 because it was cheap, from > a friend, and my car fit in it ( just ). Then I bought an 8, because I > learned my lesson. Now I have an 8.5', because I'm a slow learner ;) > > -- > David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 22:11:35 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324422589676 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 22:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6630A258B37D for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 21:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 1FD728FC22; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 23:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5118FC0E for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 23:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 23:44:49 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: Shop Talk List References: <14faefc23f2-6d36-25c28@webprd-m28.mail.aol.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Brad Kahler wrote: > How much room do you have for the ratchet straps when using the wheel nets > (bonnets)? I'm starting to think that in the confined spaces of an > enclosed trailer it might be somewhat of a pain to try get the wheel nets > around the wheels. The other question is, do you want to secure the load in the trailer, or just the wheels? I know some people like the idea of 1 to 3 tons of vehicle flopping around in their trailer... I do not. I think it's insane, but to each his own. I tie down the chassis, not just 100 pounds of wheels. I have tied-down just the wheels a few times in a pinch ( someone else's car lacking anchors, etc ) and hated it. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 8 22:28:21 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6462588F48 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 22:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCDA258B54C for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 21:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id C72DE8FC22; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 23:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BE18FC0E for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 23:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 23:59:57 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: Shop Talk List References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Brad Kahler wrote: > I can see where 3-track would be a problem considering what you're > transporting. Seems like the responses I've been getting favor D-rings > over e-track for vehicle tie down. Maybe I should learn something here :) Really the only reason for floor e-track is to haul a variety of things. If this is only going to be a mobile TR6 garage, I see no point at all. Put d-rings where you need them, and be done with it. > I've never owned or used a trailer with the torsion springs which is why > I'm interested in the difference. I think it's something like a $300 > adder. Your comments about trailer width pretty much indicate I should go > with the 8'-6" trailer width. Makes sense. I've had both axles. The difference isn't night and day or anything, but torsion is preferred. Some of the torsion advantages -- like say being quieter -- you may or may not care about. On the other hand, if you only plan to keep a trailer a short time, maybe you don't care that leaves rust out and need replacing. Generally it's +$300 for torsions, or thereabouts. Regarding width, about the only reasons to go skinny are storage room, and reduced frontal area ( ie mileage )... but if you are towing with a motorhome, neither of those probably matter to you. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 06:15:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3711B258AD01 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 06:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from omr-m004e.mx.aol.com (omr-m004e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.4]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F8B258AB39 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 05:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaomg-maa01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-maa01.mx.aol.com [172.26.222.143]) by omr-m004e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id CAC333800055 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 07:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mob01g.mail.aol.com (core-mob01.mail.aol.com [172.27.62.11]) by mtaomg-maa01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id A09C038000081 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 07:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 68.188.78.74 by webprd-a46.mail.aol.com (10.72.52.219) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 09 Sep 2015 07:48:44 -0400 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 07:48:44 -0400 From: Dave To: shop-talk@autox.team.net x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20150623; t=1441799324; bh=nfz2nCe12CraLmuTeXK7doI8qNLgho32cibMEM/BA+U=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GvTERf2WEzk4iTbVN2aWxLFOdGYUCk0o23pd4YSdFC9QoaohQBxKl4auC2d1TyO3w UJFUV8WboGW8on9og1etKHTJdPubkEu1mra9Rp3eNgYhYOeRH2YtGHxOc4F0kb4ciM 8tv2qUB6bdVZCWh1Rf0kBS1dKAzF/1nBj+6Y8uNg= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1ade8f55f01c9c3f8a Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net If you put restraints on the chassis but don't compress the suspension sufficiently the restraints will go slack in a jounce situation and when the suspension rebounds and you hit the limits of the restraints you put a lot of kinetic stress on the restraints and the attachment points. When you are hauling a car like a TR with a stiff, overdamped suspension there is little secondary bouncing. If you are hauling a 70's vintage Cadillac, on the other hand... Dave Massey -----Original Message----- From: David Hillman To: Shop Talk List Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2015 1:37 am Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Brad Kahler wrote: > How much room do you have for the ratchet straps when using the wheel nets > (bonnets)? I'm starting to think that in the confined spaces of an > enclosed trailer it might be somewhat of a pain to try get the wheel nets > around the wheels. The other question is, do you want to secure the load in the trailer, or just the wheels? I know some people like the idea of 1 to 3 tons of vehicle flopping around in their trailer... I do not. I think it's insane, but to each his own. I tie down the chassis, not just 100 pounds of wheels. I have tied-down just the wheels a few times in a pinch ( someone else's car lacking anchors, etc ) and hated it. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 07:17:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C1B2584BF7 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 07:17:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f177.google.com (mail-io0-f177.google.com [209.85.223.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726C0258AF25 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 06:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iofh134 with SMTP id h134so20623949iof.0 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 05:55:26 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=R387oLdSzA1LZZh5KkSzxTpspauiEgOV+2x4JfT3ziM=; b=IbIyh5XVeEhZ9zByTlUzmuNlYJUPk8tqkF/iamSGIr+f0BbfGXEnEoYoGOej1Pvh3B JJKWHj1jpsgTlnt5A3/kxwY1QioUDM9f5Amm0j0SS4KwuuXWlTsN03G1BCNI+KdrabDh Qq1vbjgTtJ56mPIKi+yJsx4vvuSCJgrw3fcszU8BJ3L6o1C0Wb0jKTsrK9kCj3UFzORP CHr2MpmT9oDfeXpBhtAcdcRE6rhAHFglyS1qn4k5wU/bfPGQCobFvIxCCRItmgUyKJeO r7YrvAz55j4ToFG+74DurNcqzJb9QO6/gDtAVL76R78DFISzb/yiddmn0MMDLvArQ3Oq R/Ug== j21mr32108137iod.20.1441803326733; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 05:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 05:55:26 -0700 (PDT) References: <14faefc23f2-6d36-25c28@webprd-m28.mail.aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 08:55:26 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: David Hillman Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've tied vehicles down both ways. Usually it depended on what sort of tie down access was available on any specific vehicle. I've towed large and small vehicles and never had issues either way and I've heard the pros and cons for each method. Sometimes I use a combination of the two methods. Seems like each vehicle/trailer combination is different. On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:44 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Tue, 8 Sep 2015, Brad Kahler wrote: > >> How much room do you have for the ratchet straps when using the wheel nets >> (bonnets)? I'm starting to think that in the confined spaces of an >> enclosed trailer it might be somewhat of a pain to try get the wheel nets >> around the wheels. >> > > The other question is, do you want to secure the load in the trailer, > or just the wheels? > > I know some people like the idea of 1 to 3 tons of vehicle flopping > around in their trailer... I do not. I think it's insane, but to each his > own. I tie down the chassis, not just 100 pounds of wheels. I have > tied-down just the wheels a few times in a pinch ( someone else's car > lacking anchors, etc ) and hated it. > > -- > David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 07:18:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A69D258B5EE for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 07:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f179.google.com (mail-io0-f179.google.com [209.85.223.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1472258B104 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 07:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ioiz6 with SMTP id z6so20629465ioi.2 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 06:01:08 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=l5AqJc9BuBCHYHkDkdXE532+J8bRd5uKVwd3fYSppOw=; b=NsNMrxwHDeIEM9yBlOhoE3boQkzGF9jEvaUcrLdyQTt0UnDAotinKHc9AG4lvg03tm 1pcF6V7dVCmJRn5fcwGfLjNAAl3ik8p9pUKSSNFmmDQX5gdCKPGe6WY3XJJ65Oe17bCO EaIEPnkArsTwa08tOMQHecsVC2I9Wml+r5FqLpLAaioUxRqozq9Sm7TAz0qbwT4RBGQS YvnZNNKFEjl131ya8pvOxYNAJTXl7G9fM84qbPBJgzxMZQzaDmF1sbh/UxCRUFTgEb/z 0+MuAPpX/YwkVuBfacqcijrNVG3AkWQWceGYP6hZ27JPwBVJNbcYP1TY3q0NJPyRDy4V uoNQ== j21mr32158671iod.20.1441803668569; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 06:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 06:01:08 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 09:01:08 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: David Hillman Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I can see where 3-track would be a problem considering what you're >> transporting. Seems like the responses I've been getting favor D-rings >> over e-track for vehicle tie down. Maybe I should learn something here :) >> > > Really the only reason for floor e-track is to haul a variety of > things. If this is only going to be a mobile TR6 garage, I see no point at > all. Put d-rings where you need them, and be done with it. > > I've pretty much made up my mind to go with D-rings. The maddening part is on a TR4/TR6 tying down the rear of the car is a royal pain. I'll probably have to add fixed tie points to the car chassis to make life easier. > I've never owned or used a trailer with the torsion springs which is why >> I'm interested in the difference. I think it's something like a $300 >> adder. Your comments about trailer width pretty much indicate I should go >> with the 8'-6" trailer width. Makes sense. >> > > I've had both axles. The difference isn't night and day or anything, > but torsion is preferred. Some of the torsion advantages -- like say being > quieter -- you may or may not care about. On the other hand, if you only > plan to keep a trailer a short time, maybe you don't care that leaves rust > out and need replacing. Generally it's +$300 for torsions, or thereabouts. > > The plan is get the trailer now even though my real plans for it are for when I retire in a few years. Having a trailer now will provide a nice enclosed parking space for the car while I do some major work in my shop over the next couple of years. > Regarding width, about the only reasons to go skinny are storage room, > and reduced frontal area ( ie mileage )... but if you are towing with a > motorhome, neither of those probably matter to you. > Good point, the 8'-6" wide would be the same as my motorhome. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 09:21:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA1A258BCFE for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 09:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from gateway22.websitewelcome.com (gateway22.websitewelcome.com [192.185.46.156]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB109258B84C for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 08:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by gateway22.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id E613C3AF90594; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 09:54:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator4190.hostgator.com (gator4190.hostgator.com [108.167.189.15]) by gateway22.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B593AF9056E for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 09:54:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.111.216.187] (port=37723 helo=[192.168.1.101]) by gator4190.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZZglU-0003qp-MF for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 09:54:24 -0500 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> From: Mike Rambour Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 07:54:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 with any abuse report Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net and when you get lucky and I mean really lucky, the car rolls off the trailer on the freeway offramp and comes to a stop with minimal damage...a few hundred yards earlier I would have been to 60, instead I was doing 10mph, like I said lucky. This was with the chassis strapped down tight, but I guess not tight enough since a downward bounce allowed the hooks to come loose and the straps came off. After that incident, I got the wheel basket straps, moved the D-rings to where they needed to be and never strapped down the chassis again. Let the chassis bounce all it wants, keep the wheels locked down and the car will stay. Maybe even better for the car since the cars suspension is still able to freely move. mike On 9/9/2015 4:48 AM, Dave wrote: > If you put restraints on the chassis but don't compress the suspension sufficiently the restraints will go slack in a jounce situation and when the suspension rebounds and you hit the limits of the restraints you put a lot of kinetic stress on the restraints and the attachment points. When you are hauling a car like a TR with a stiff, overdamped suspension there is little secondary bouncing. If you are hauling a 70's vintage Cadillac, on the other hand... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 11:04:26 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F379258B6D6 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76354258B9B0 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 10:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 07E608FF01; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B828FC0E for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:34:25 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, 9 Sep 2015, Mike Rambour wrote: > and when you get lucky and I mean really lucky, the car rolls off the > trailer on the freeway offramp and comes to a stop with minimal damage...a > few hundred yards earlier I would have been to 60, instead I was doing 10mph, > like I said lucky. This was with the chassis strapped down tight, but I > guess not tight enough since a downward bounce allowed the hooks to come > loose and the straps came off. At risk of sounding like a paid shill, which I am not. Use snap hooks, which cannot disengage. Relying on tension alone to maintain attachment is risky, as you discovered. Of course you can buy those from any number of vendors, but these are the best quality I've seen, and frequently cheaper than made-in-China crap. Out of random curiosity, how did the door open? Or are we talking about a beavertailed open trailer here? -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 11:36:15 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79BF3258C097 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from gateway30.websitewelcome.com (gateway30.websitewelcome.com [192.185.146.7]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF26258B535 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by gateway30.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id C55B08AD7F46F; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:16:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator4190.hostgator.com (gator4190.hostgator.com [108.167.189.15]) by gateway30.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C267B8AD7F425 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:16:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.111.216.187] (port=41705 helo=[192.168.1.101]) by gator4190.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZZiz4-000SQT-Cp for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 12:16:34 -0500 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> From: Mike Rambour Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 10:16:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 with any abuse report Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Open trailer with beaver tail, I personally have never seen a reason for a enclosed trailer. My trailers have to do dual duty...haul trash to the dump and haul my car around. Its hard to haul trash to the dump in a enclosed trailer and in 30+ years of towing my car I have never any issues in motel parking lots including the few that were not in a neighborhood I would have chosen today with the advantage of the web to look at the neighborhood with. I do admit a few times at races in the rain it would have been nice to have a enclosed trailer, but I only want to own one trailer and it has to be able to loaded up with construction debris to go to the dump or yard debris, etc. And I agree with the snap hooks but I still prefer the tire baskets now with one safety to the axle :) mike On 9/9/2015 9:34 AM, David Hillman wrote: > On Wed, 9 Sep 2015, Mike Rambour wrote: >> and when you get lucky and I mean really lucky, the car rolls off the >> trailer on the freeway offramp and comes to a stop with minimal >> damage...a few hundred yards earlier I would have been to 60, instead >> I was doing 10mph, like I said lucky. This was with the chassis >> strapped down tight, but I guess not tight enough since a downward >> bounce allowed the hooks to come loose and the straps came off. > > At risk of sounding like a paid shill, which I am not. Use snap > hooks, which cannot disengage. Relying on tension alone to maintain > attachment is risky, as you discovered. > > > > Of course you can buy those from any number of vendors, but these > are the best quality I've seen, and frequently cheaper than > made-in-China crap. > > Out of random curiosity, how did the door open? Or are we talking > about a beavertailed open trailer here? > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists@dinospider.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 11:52:01 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94EA9258C0DC for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f174.google.com (mail-wi0-f174.google.com [209.85.212.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD74258BEEA for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wicgb1 with SMTP id gb1so125084854wic.1 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 10:24:02 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=tOIsdxe1rqRXKX4ew2J56Z6EKeDJoaPCv65kzFXyeck=; b=CZeQXml3ngzosmBNfHGjxk1oVKSbVndq4yzoazvq/nmcmxxD4tFRR80vDa/pRK4YE9 GDKvcIKWuVT3UUnmhZpoOhkjj7dhcV/1dKvDx+zLoHg7pRXr/cIVfc3+4zF8qv+J5QIw tsOSatTK+wXOTBfkH8oDqzL31+q6pBfogylppQsBvjgiPFw4UnWLsxgk90OYO+iTU73/ BKY3EeDO5m9Llgg2jdafTYe1fOHhxVNYGeHDOm0ROeIBWb7VIQPPHPH4EbFGWio1+Nwo 4dJgEDEMskunBkDf6EV8jykZXnOHqGMbDUc2v3uScQvJ1CJzAw7n7h0MrZLCQUlXbbE0 cavg== iz16mr57882111wic.91.1441819441788; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 10:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.27.222.9 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 10:24:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:24:01 -0500 From: John Innis To: Mike Rambour Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Since you started the discussion, lets get this one going right. First and foremost, I am not an expert, but the information I am presenting here was presented to me by someone I believed to be an expert. One of the guys at our SCCA club put on a trailing clinic, and this is what he told us. Since he has pulled a lot of very expensive cars around to tracks all over the US and claims to have had 0 incidents, I think his experience is worth listening to. I was taught to ALWAYS strap a car down by the frame. I was told to use crossover strapping and tighten them until the suspension was about 50% compressed. The Crossover strapping method means that the amount that the straps stretch or relax is minimized when the car moves up (in ANY direction). So if the car hops to the side a bit the angle of the strap might change, but the length won't (or at least it will change less). Compressing the suspension forces the car and trailer to move as one and insures that even if the car shifts a little bit, the straps will remain tight. If your trailer has suspension and the car is allowed to bounce on its suspension independently of the trailer, the tow can end up going at different directions with a significant amount of force. And finally, ALWAYS have a backup method of insuring your load does not ever separate from the trailer. I was taught to have at least tow safety chains connected to the frame of the car with clevis or quick link. My own personal advice is do all of the above AND stop after 20 miles or whenever the weather changes and check your straps. I only pull a trailer a few times a year and have probably done less than 10000 miles hauling cars, but I have also never had a problem using these methods. I am curious to hear what other on the list have to say on this subject. On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Mike Rambour wrote: > and when you get lucky and I mean really lucky, the car rolls off the > trailer on the freeway offramp and comes to a stop with minimal damage...a > few hundred yards earlier I would have been to 60, instead I was doing > 10mph, like I said lucky. This was with the chassis strapped down tight, > but I guess not tight enough since a downward bounce allowed the hooks to > come loose and the straps came off. > > > After that incident, I got the wheel basket straps, moved the D-rings to > where they needed to be and never strapped down the chassis again. Let the > chassis bounce all it wants, keep the wheels locked down and the car will > stay. Maybe even better for the car since the cars suspension is still > able to freely move. > > mike > > > On 9/9/2015 4:48 AM, Dave wrote: > >> If you put restraints on the chassis but don't compress the suspension >> sufficiently the restraints will go slack in a jounce situation and when >> the suspension rebounds and you hit the limits of the restraints you put a >> lot of kinetic stress on the restraints and the attachment points. When >> you are hauling a car like a TR with a stiff, overdamped suspension there >> is little secondary bouncing. If you are hauling a 70's vintage Cadillac, >> on the other hand... >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 12:40:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB7D258B917 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa12-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa12-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [68.178.252.239]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E19258C290 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from StevePC ([67.160.74.98]) by p3plsmtpa12-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id F6RD1r00D27EXdf016RDXY; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 11:25:14 -0700 From: "Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA" To: "David Hillman" , References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:25:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer (random thoughts) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net OK, I canbt help myself, Ibve got to mention the how and why of my trailer. Since I have a variety of interests (including tall horseless carriages) I ordered a full sized (8-1/2b wide and an extra foot taller enclosed 24b trailer. I use it for local tours in our horseless carriage clubbs activities as well as a once a year long haul from the Pac NW to Hershey Fall Meet. Itbs a 3,000 mile haul over two mountain ranges each way. Herebs what Ibve learned: I ordered 10 pair of D-rings bolted through the floor. In my case, maybe I could have gone with e-track in the floor. However I did add two rows of e-track on each inside long wall of the 24b trailer. Absolutely great for strapping stuff upright to the side walls. I also purchased a 100b roll of hi-strength 2b webbing. Made up custom tie-downs with an adjustable loop (instead of a basket) to facilitate all the various size tire/wheels that I have (everything from 13b Corvair wheels to 36b horseless carriage wheels). The best choice (for me) was to find hd ratchets and I selected ALL STAINLESS STEEL construction. Somehow my old ratchets were always corrosion prone and became difficult to operate. Now Ibve got a ratchet that feels like a Snap-On tool! I like to tie each corner wheel down tight. This removes the strain on all the suspension and chassis. I donbt like to tie a vehicle down by trying to pull the axels apart. Also, if for some reason I lose a tie down, all the remaining wheels are still firmly anchored. Another recent change was to fix the HEAVY tailgate. My trailer manufacturer tried to compensate for the heavier and taller ramp/door by simply cranking down on the assist spring. I eventually went to my local garage door shop in town and they calculated the true loads and replaced the overhead spring with a replacement that had fewer winds but larger wire diameter. Now I can actually lift up and lay down the entire rear door/ramp with one finger (itbs easier with two or three fingers). Big change. I also had the manufacturer fit one of those manual slide out steps seen on RV rigs, this was for the man door. They also included a hand grip to assist in entering the rig. Ibve also upgraded my Load Range D tires to Load Range E. Ibm keeping the shredded sidewall of the bexplodedb Load Range D tire as a future wall decoration in the new garage addition. Ibm planning on switching out the screws (on the interior white walls and ceiling) to pop rivets. The vibration of travel loosens the existing screws. Ibve added a spare tire mount to the front exterior wall. While I did order the 120V cable system with some interior lights, I havenbt really needed them. Someday I may add a rear trailer camera and tie it into my backup camera on my diesel rig. I do not like the snap-tite plastic clearance lights covers. Too easy to come off while traveling. Maybe I need to clean and reinsert the push on covers, but with a drop of clear RTV to keep them on. Typically re-pack all wheel bearings every other year. Had to replace two sets of wheel bearings after not repacking them for 4 years. I recently switched to Andersenbs weight distribution hitch with anti-sway. Go here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRoQ_yQZQwQ to see the video. Ibm very pleased with it. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 12:52:40 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CED125895DD for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9E9258C223 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 2000F8FF30; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4198FC0E for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:32:24 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> <55F06971.3070600@dinospider.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, 9 Sep 2015, Mike Rambour wrote: > Open trailer with beaver tail, I personally have never seen a reason for a > enclosed trailer. OT, but having had both, you will pry my box trailer from my cold dead hands. Reasons: 1. Weather. I used to have hundreds of pounds of snow and ice collected on my open trailer and the entire front of the racecar after a couple hour tow. Even if you don't tow in winter like I do, it probably still rains where you are. I used to have to have (operable) windows in my racecars, when I had an open trailer. No more. No more glass exploding all over me in a crash. No more foggy or opaque Lexan. 2. Everything doesn't have to be in the racecar or in the truck. I have tool boxes and other storage in the trailer. Some things can just be tossed in. 3. Ramps! No more pulling the ramps out from their under-deck storage, fussing around with getting them in place, putting them away, getting them back out to load, etc. Drop the door, drive in, done. ( Admittedly, slide-out and fold-down ramps are not as bad... ) 4. Storage. The racecar sits in the trailer in storage most of the year. Don't have to worry about the racecar leaking in the rain, baking in the sun, getting infested with rodents, etc. 5. Safety. Other drivers don't gawk at whatever I'm hauling, which means they are looking at the road ( as much as they ever do, anyway ). Cops don't see a racecar, either, and I am just fine with that. 6. Regarding one trailer... I've only had one at a time. I've hauled construction debris in a box. Brought home 2 tons of stone that was loaded by fork truck. A tree, once. Moved my sister-in-law's three bedroom house half across the country ( loaded floor-to-ceiling front-to-back ). Picked up a friend's new roofless project car, got caught in a thunderstorm on the way home... no problem. I could camp in it, if need be. The only thing I've ever moved that would've been a lot harder with an open trailer was a backyard play set for a friend. We'd have had to disassemble it, but instead, we had about 12 people carry it out and set it on an open car hauler. It was tall as hell, but it made it. How much do you take to the dump at a time? I'd buy a little Harbor Freight 4x8 trailer, load that with trash, and then put it in the enclosed trailer for the trip to the dump before I'd let that be my reason to get an open hauler ;) -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 13:52:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0700D2589C7D for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 13:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yk0-f182.google.com (mail-yk0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71D7258BA3A for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 13:29:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ykdg206 with SMTP id g206so31547293ykd.1 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 12:29:51 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=/4gI1HvUcVFN7VbtESNBi7V0Luhfo1F/WGGdglXt7eU=; b=a5ib86kOrpGo4SMPeia+LlAC7FACZQzeTmTRjWfIMQPMGlsFTAJkjX8wXONksIdzTF JVzeq6gzYYdZwOykCYKho9W8LU2TtkBOTCeOVW44P4qzRxE0+z0sCoKNBzcpZdXeGMTP 5KDOXwyTOyGOfdqdyqwMhMsqeZih7OH9gWny/K7LU06RP9QDcvB8iZvHDcsYkinn3utv OKZ+mFF5plpOM23oSHRKM9yeb1Vp8SN8XBfEwx9PFNhH6wS6ppEabgBohpgy0ELPuRer VsDVTL1HimukD2MGwBnke/SVcC+BnDS1xr9iCmL2fAZEc2bu3vXtrDI6qbap69XcAcgN MT1g== x17mr38575338ywd.164.1441826990800; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 12:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.51.199 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 15:29:50 -0400 From: Joe Szwed To: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net What I have seen some guys do with race cars is they use blocks or stands made that they put under the chassis where they strap to it, so they pull the chassis down tight on the blocks to the trailer. This way the car is not bouncing on its own suspension nor are they loading down the suspension very much. Not sure if that's an option with your car. Torsion suspension on a trailer typically allows the trailer to sit a little lower, because the trailer frame is basically sitting right on the axle. Extended tongues are nice as gives you room to mount a generator on it. Wiring the trailer for line voltage is really nice if you need to work on the car at where ever your going. You can use standard light fixtures and outlets, run a compressor or other power tools as long as you have a generator or a place to plug into. Joe _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 14:38:47 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D596D258B4F2 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f181.google.com (mail-io0-f181.google.com [209.85.223.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D19125876FA for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:22:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ioii196 with SMTP id i196so36277654ioi.3 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:22:49 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=V4YibIK+TaOk22Wpgb/qCXsSSI+roxeBYZKUVOcW/kg=; b=aHGeJ3xQcqEvKuiMRl8u16+4I8Vsz1tlejCQeUra25EaSZGZCaHNjxmyqiKyju7bLj iFfwimY3XZLbhow1N8xmELvQr9Vk0xyfkKFpVltvtEX+Y4pBEJLGa3QH/5ZdPe+sYuZ+ 7NXA3aj4CHVfNEVa0eRE4LZ1Cm4gAk373CkDD02QPPheYj61s+ZKVSfVyZ6hkYs7uF2F boGLxl6glAr3qUC8cwaJ75qgCGvOpjATl9LN8lW7Vzrznm2CYw7j8LYTNiEPSWxtDOQj cd6aWUfWSG8nJ4fdKu0Mo1m4wsBaM7f1ThaomcO6HDBDOV49NqSKRw533jR9jAoXPV5X fHRA== j21mr35884305iod.20.1441830168872; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 13:22:48 -0700 (PDT) References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:22:48 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Having started this thread I would say it's starting to cover areas that I had not originally intended (or thought of) but the information that is being posted is good stuff and I'm glad it's being posted. I had never really looked closely at the dynamics of just what happens with a towed vehicle, it's suspension and how it's tied down. I can see I need to review the methods that I use and plan accordingly. With that being said I look forward to more posts about trailers, towing dynamics and how trailers are being configured and used. Thanks! Brad On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 1:24 PM, John Innis wrote: > Since you started the discussion, lets get this one going right. First and > foremost, I am not an expert, but the information I am presenting here was > presented to me by someone I believed to be an expert. One of the guys at > our SCCA club put on a trailing clinic, and this is what he told us. Since > he has pulled a lot of very expensive cars around to tracks all over the US > and claims to have had 0 incidents, I think his experience is worth > listening to. > > I was taught to ALWAYS strap a car down by the frame. I was told to use > crossover strapping and tighten them until the suspension was about 50% > compressed. > > The Crossover strapping method means that the amount that the straps > stretch or relax is minimized when the car moves up (in ANY direction). So > if the car hops to the side a bit the angle of the strap might change, but > the length won't (or at least it will change less). > > Compressing the suspension forces the car and trailer to move as one and > insures that even if the car shifts a little bit, the straps will remain > tight. If your trailer has suspension and the car is allowed to bounce on > its suspension independently of the trailer, the tow can end up going at > different directions with a significant amount of force. > > And finally, ALWAYS have a backup method of insuring your load does not > ever separate from the trailer. I was taught to have at least tow safety > chains connected to the frame of the car with clevis or quick link. > > My own personal advice is do all of the above AND stop after 20 miles or > whenever the weather changes and check your straps. I only pull a trailer > a few times a year and have probably done less than 10000 miles hauling > cars, but I have also never had a problem using these methods. I am > curious to hear what other on the list have to say on this subject. > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Mike Rambour wrote: > > > and when you get lucky and I mean really lucky, the car rolls off the > > trailer on the freeway offramp and comes to a stop with minimal > damage...a > > few hundred yards earlier I would have been to 60, instead I was doing > > 10mph, like I said lucky. This was with the chassis strapped down tight, > > but I guess not tight enough since a downward bounce allowed the hooks to > > come loose and the straps came off. > > > > > > After that incident, I got the wheel basket straps, moved the D-rings to > > where they needed to be and never strapped down the chassis again. Let > the > > chassis bounce all it wants, keep the wheels locked down and the car will > > stay. Maybe even better for the car since the cars suspension is still > > able to freely move. > > > > mike > > > > > > On 9/9/2015 4:48 AM, Dave wrote: > > > >> If you put restraints on the chassis but don't compress the suspension > >> sufficiently the restraints will go slack in a jounce situation and when > >> the suspension rebounds and you hit the limits of the restraints you > put a > >> lot of kinetic stress on the restraints and the attachment points. When > >> you are hauling a car like a TR with a stiff, overdamped suspension > there > >> is little secondary bouncing. If you are hauling a 70's vintage > Cadillac, > >> on the other hand... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 15:24:04 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D2A258BE89 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 15:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E043258B640 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id BB1D28FEFA; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A408FC12 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> <701807794B41495E9E3B1640FC0A3EC0@StevePC> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer (random thoughts) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, 9 Sep 2015, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > Here?s what I?ve learned: Since we're on the topic; two simple little things that make hauling cars much easier for me. Both came on my current trailer, but I will install them on my next x trailers. Tie-down hangers. Just two little pieces of aluminum angle, with a few holes drilled in one leg, mounted to the top of the walls roughly above each floor d-ring. Unhook the tie-down from the car, and hang that end on the up on the wall. The opposite end always stay hooked to the d-rings, but out of the way. I can drive in and be securely tied-down in under a minute, if necessary. Floor-level wall-mounted E-track. Mine goes the entire trailer length, but really the handiest bit is between the human door and the wheel wells. Here I keep two E-track beam pockets, and a 2x4 spanning the width of the trailer. Drive in 'til the front wheels hit the 2x4, and you're good. No fussing around with positioning the car. Hook the front tie-downs and pull the car against the 2x4, then attach the rears. Not moving from the same spot every time. Also doubles as an anchor point when using a come-along to trailer a dead racecar ( I could buy a winch, but some people pay good money for that workout ;) ) Two more things I'll never be without. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 9 15:57:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A54A258C667 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 15:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa08-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa08-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.106]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA09258C130 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2015 15:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from StevePC ([67.160.74.98]) by p3plsmtpa08-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id F9gL1r00227EXdf019gLLs; Wed, 09 Sep 2015 14:40:21 -0700 From: "Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA" To: References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> <701807794B41495E9E3B1640FC0A3EC0@StevePC> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 14:40:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer (random thoughts) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net David Yes, I forgot to mention the tie-down hangers. Ibve mounted one set RR and the other LF The perfect way to keep your tie-downs up and out of the way. One other thing I made was some aluminum plates the drop in to the gap near the floor hinge. Useful when loading something in a small castered cart or dolly to keep the small casters from falling and jamming into the gap. Nest them and store them against the lower e-track near the rear of the trailer using a light bungee. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From: David Hillman Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 1:59 PM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer (random thoughts) On Wed, 9 Sep 2015, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > Here?s what I?ve learned: Since we're on the topic; two simple little things that make hauling cars much easier for me. Both came on my current trailer, but I will install them on my next x trailers. Tie-down hangers. Just two little pieces of aluminum angle, with a few holes drilled in one leg, mounted to the top of the walls roughly above each floor d-ring. Unhook the tie-down from the car, and hang that end on the up on the wall. The opposite end always stay hooked to the d-rings, but out of the way. I can drive in and be securely tied-down in under a minute, if necessary. Floor-level wall-mounted E-track. Mine goes the entire trailer length, but really the handiest bit is between the human door and the wheel wells. Here I keep two E-track beam pockets, and a 2x4 spanning the width of the trailer. Drive in 'til the front wheels hit the 2x4, and you're good. No fussing around with positioning the car. Hook the front tie-downs and pull the car against the 2x4, then attach the rears. Not moving from the same spot every time. Also doubles as an anchor point when using a come-along to trailer a dead racecar ( I could buy a winch, but some people pay good money for that workout ;) ) Two more things I'll never be without. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve@hammatt.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4409/10607 - Release Date: 09/09/15 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 13 08:32:15 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1ADB258C9C7 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f169.google.com (mail-ob0-f169.google.com [209.85.214.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3ECF258A996 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obbzf10 with SMTP id zf10so36099947obb.2 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 07:13:31 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=KaPq/+FEkE2xVwgWMTUMJGtVDNcz5PE72iO3v2ngGh0=; b=k2HLCy2J/ivgzu5cY+C1ZSFlBNVgLAskCl8qIn6jLv+68HVFIeqNR6CUncy3S8Fnj7 Y7nDlY6n2nlq552KHRlyx1gvFY3rJzs3wK+UvM1+R+/Q8xQOUFlzK2Wm6Yu47VG6iJtL fbClS0H4UVGtpVB05uaDLNtxnA94C0Q+tZ1TAxV+GcL1n04VaWk99Fe6aXjsAC6ogpsm uyTwdRsDE3tyhcWbSflIRKXzp5QWIcYHf++KV0IhIyFcLsk5f+BY7+n6gBnMUVY4TJko f7vgfvlEi/gvWKSLhNfUXFqwl92QOv5ns4LZEwBJ9/zY+W/oMqeXMsjfUwzA5IAVwQbH G+NQ== Sun, 13 Sep 2015 07:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 07:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Hall Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:12:51 -0400 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Guys, Got new water heater for house. Want to replace existing drain arrangement with ball valve for better draining. The fitting into the tank I think is probably not replaceable. But I could replace the plastic plug and screw a fitting/ball valve into it. It looks like this: http://imgur.com/wn4DPQg But I'm not sure what that thread is. It's not NPT--it seems to be about twice as coarse as NPT. I tried a 1/2" NPT spigot iftting I has here and it screws in, but it looks like it might be cutting its own threads into the fitting on the tank, which I think is Bad. Anyone familiar with what that thread might be? The plug's plastic so it won't rust, but it looks like it's just asking to have those tiny holes clogs, or for the whole plastic plug to embrittle and break. A nice ball valve with a big handle on it would be preferable. Scott _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 13 10:17:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8814A2589EFE for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:17:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from omp1035.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (omp1035.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.88.235]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25400258C812 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 09:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 41508 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Sep 2015 15:54:18 -0000 s=s2048; t=1442159657; bh=fqDYjcrt+KLcmvLOj0hkEvkcqBDzVym7N/Wln4PZUPU=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=kk2c9l3zmtr5eGGtH3ePOPgBMFjHE3K/uTCZ433QQelWdXBG/4EvpmWwBhraxpLE6DITZlgrZTrpAs8dZeB8zH+A3m0XY+fzZSuq/qFfARxNQ5dr1IbbHUQucIaj77GA4Bsx32CuvjRLRpviRbdXhCv3eA4yuDaol6OcSOLYZGljb1byPk+L77oRQyHjCGzUcfQwfE97X8l+TDPtksYheS9hx5dctZx3eLHU9kKneIoiRUzo2Kn1PNGwGxCX1DJ58uOz9dQDBgyKQ3y4EUUjoyXHb1qcL1kRUPVs98uzgNXLDXZlgSQ2Thv99MqfGiUCNmZVdiKUY9Zgd0RcPTWw3A== lnwjFBNs7pFMrRxAMr60qfxxfM_n28pbmqMbVkttBMR7fvbGgxkqKnGzMwSzA2cOAys_inHjlybG FrIrJ.0RrH8cQE2C8IvlHqr_yXOkIVMUShD1C6pt7DboETdoGbaaelZPMSVk0lLd_KQbzML59Okp GhUd_QaHrNZPc44AvalXgnfgsq3JspjdXC0ZszSCgECv_.A_7buuC4N_rfmI6xE4dTg_sYR3cekx mRScJ1xraMvbO8Crpp._f.GUNxiJhkBoldH.WmxDLJj3l_HEB1LDokWw7Sx3RfbzkgKMY44s.sS3 1_rI3qCc6A1PqvYPuJIqGeqFg1NL9dHmECsaCyCFczlMQkONt80B1NHJmSVm.4k4PzdSlReMgV_J 8D_W7etsZyHMSGQsUp.2H3iBYeXzzCQg1HjSqcNtT4SyOSCg8XDG8ZxXDlQCdlZoh2IKtG73KBy4 W60Ni0Ntg73adcz2HZTQH2g2xNRA- Received: by 98.138.101.170; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:54:16 +0000 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:54:15 +0000 (UTC) From: old dirtbeard To: Scott Hall , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Scott, I did something similar, entirely removed the valve and plumbed-in a 3/4" pipe into the tank and just used a standard full ball valve. B I am attaching the picture here, but it probably will not post to the list. I think tanks generally use standard NPT pipe threads. B Maybe a taper?B best, doug los angeles________________ '72 BSA B50SS From: Scott Hall To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 7:12 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Guys, Got new water heater for house. Want to replace existing drain arrangement with ball valve for better draining. The fitting into the tank I think is probably not replaceable. But I could replace the plastic plug and screw a fitting/ball valve into it. It looks like this: http://imgur.com/wn4DPQg But I'm not sure what that thread is. It's not NPT--it seems to be about twice as coarse as NPT. I tried a 1/2" NPT spigot iftting I has here and it screws in, but it looks like it might be cutting its own threads into the fitting on the tank, which I think is Bad. Anyone familiar with what that thread might be? The plug's plastic so it won't rust, but it looks like it's just asking to have those tiny holes clogs, or for the whole plastic plug to embrittle and break. A nice ball valve with a big handle on it would be preferable. Scott _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@pacbell.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg] _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 13 10:18:56 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2338258CC51 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com (mail-ob0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA6E2589414 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 09:59:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obqa2 with SMTP id a2so92706307obq.3 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=KCp23N5yYneVXeMAd0BkYWCBa5dnNydvu84dFHyZVlU=; b=hoHXORyEgQJUbe6y4I8ZZAILZC9FKZXhE9kcw7F25DmjjEZX4DQmcU/PHENQ/lwgi6 lDtBiZdAPXI+xkW6RPngR+bcigiXzekgHRUZJRLPrlVVtzDsIUeR8kMm1kCBNDWk4ipa lBgJzNz1s/sBomrKcrWIbvMEtculh0auAeZfjwyjuXNARikV2OgP3J8cDorNijWwfV4X RuRfLagOdoV/dtwbAyvIICrbv3oiQR4xz9v7GsePJk9wpnXjT66nnd9a+pO/8ehT4/rk 3NsJrFESUYZZc+i2cQf2p27Emaeiwwjj77YDVjximSzO6bD15qgEsr6h9d+T+hQFXsJP Mj0g== n13mr7887729obe.26.1442159986528; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) References: <2071272758.1866580.1442159655567.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 11:59:46 -0400 From: Scott Hall To: old dirtbeard Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The fitting into the tank itself has a hex on it, but it's made of plastic too and I'm honestly not sure I have the stones to attack it with a wrench. Should I? On Sep 13, 2015 10:54 AM, "old dirtbeard" wrote: > Hi Scott, > > I did something similar, entirely removed the valve and plumbed-in a 3/4" > pipe into the tank and just used a standard full ball valve. I am > attaching the picture here, but it probably will not post to the list. > > I think tanks generally use standard NPT pipe threads. Maybe a taper? > > best, > > doug > > los angeles > ________________ > '72 BSA B50SS > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Scott Hall > *To:* "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2015 7:12 AM > *Subject:* [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help > > Guys, > > Got new water heater for house. Want to replace existing drain arrangement > with ball valve for better draining. > > The fitting into the tank I think is probably not replaceable. But I could > replace the plastic plug and screw a fitting/ball valve into it. It looks > like this: > > http://imgur.com/wn4DPQg > > But I'm not sure what that thread is. It's not NPT--it seems to be about > twice as coarse as NPT. > > I tried a 1/2" NPT spigot iftting I has here and it screws in, but it looks > like it might be cutting its own threads into the fitting on the tank, > which I think is Bad. > > Anyone familiar with what that thread might be? > > The plug's plastic so it won't rust, but it looks like it's just asking to > have those tiny holes clogs, or for the whole plastic plug to embrittle and > break. A nice ball valve with a big handle on it would be preferable. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 13 11:03:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D867258C7FC for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 11:03:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm25-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm25-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.73]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C60ED258CD9B for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:35:53 -0600 (MDT) s=s2048; t=1442162170; bh=PuvF4eEqygzcJp2MK8MHiA2V2pcMOziDwlPYdPZyIIM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=HBAXxXI/g5zFCAnNX+a2ge7vz4Bm08yTujypXreX8Z5JkP922n/o012MXh54daOBajSkD5ISX6sI+THBMH4uVQxxoXgFVtj7awvISTgdtaQzQbe5cJreEPqGEJg9nQ0e/VU6bIcby6XYvMRXdmT2eC/2BM2rzdj6i0ftLmPG+I48ijq7H+C3nJYZs2KhSSf/Z6L538LyF0K+L2CEB+FYXnUbcxjyibLNwi3FlIrf/frHotxiG7Sl6Md5MxYymvAKSbnhcopA8ilM7G0gZcE0Y/6kYZyTLuYiJNzd4MONF9H3pV8CmGN7L3WXz9R8RKPMflXMBHh5mrTssKe8EhACPQ== Received: from [98.138.226.180] by nm25.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2015 16:36:10 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.249] by tm15.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2015 16:36:09 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1041.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2015 16:36:09 -0000 W9_aOebPvnoYXjtWTPw0O3lCOJnbMS0uWheFF3Aos.j4fII5Y1pJvRF9MrnxJ0NLR2oMgKBFV23l bPr1Mlu.yIJhIbZt31Lm6QBQ7Y8oWkvqCIUbrcxBei50.6ZgUeT6oceZGC.MECtprn9NicgqE1nP 9JiAMFbjcs7F6B9api.8tb4_Xnt8V3STNdZiaBbrFbW91nXN3TaA6N4tirtwHisXkViM6jsmMZYS nwiW9lpDL3G.6ONGzppLEW_QRIWuXjD336_ZA7WrQZi5FbjSBjjNR62o0JTarOIX.rrjJJSxZPDJ SH2JMwKwXTV3PHcehObR9pFG5PVRcrAnDBZAJ14NKCFp.8Y2izYTI7OOjRbvZ8Cb8JSVQYPOEvOM Cffhw0QbDdNXtUNulAmxOPA2qRRBDegNHzKsuszlr9jmGoHpdTIi0LXAyz7V.qvX6e9._MWSbKnp X60.vS7Yfca5eDZoS4pq86cDITFU- Received: by 98.138.105.196; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 16:36:09 +0000 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 16:36:04 +0000 (UTC) From: old dirtbeard To: Scott Hall References: Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Scott,B Yes, that is entirely different. My heater has a 3/4" NPT steel fitting in the tank. B I cannot offer any advice here other than call/email the manufacturer to see what thread they say it is. B Maybe you can get online and download a manual? B Is there a installation/spec sheet that came with the tank with phone numbers or other information? best, doug los angeles________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Moto Guzzi 850T '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550'13 Aprilia Tuono V4R'13 Cadillac ATS 3.6 From: Scott Hall To: old dirtbeard Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help The fitting into the tank itself has a hex on it, but it's made of plastic too and I'm honestly not sure I have the stones to attack it with a wrench. Should I? On Sep 13, 2015 10:54 AM, "old dirtbeard" wrote: Hi Scott, I did something similar, entirely removed the valve and plumbed-in a 3/4" pipe into the tank and just used a standard full ball valve.B I am attaching the picture here, but it probably will not post to the list. I think tanks generally use standard NPT pipe threads.B Maybe a taper?B best, doug los angeles________________ '72 BSA B50SS From: Scott Hall To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 7:12 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Guys, Got new water heater for house. Want to replace existing drain arrangement with ball valve for better draining. The fitting into the tank I think is probably not replaceable. But I could replace the plastic plug and screw a fitting/ball valve into it. It looks like this: http://imgur.com/wn4DPQg But I'm not sure what that thread is. It's not NPT--it seems to be about twice as coarse as NPT. I tried a 1/2" NPT spigot iftting I has here and it screws in, but it looks like it might be cutting its own threads into the fitting on the tank, which I think is Bad. Anyone familiar with what that thread might be? The plug's plastic so it won't rust, but it looks like it's just asking to have those tiny holes clogs, or for the whole plastic plug to embrittle and break. A nice ball valve with a big handle on it would be preferable. Scott _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 13 14:44:26 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048082589457 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa08-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa08-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7AC2589003 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 13:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice ([184.105.18.14]) by p3plsmtpa08-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id GjnQ1r00K0JCzvc01jnQBR; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:47:25 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Scott Hall'" , References: Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:47:24 -0500 Thread-Index: AdDuMRb5MNyHJs34QOaR0nrcniCiCwAK5DQw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The part you show is just half the valve, the rest is the seat the shown part seals against. I can't imagine that it is not removable. If the rest of the valve is not removable you will not be able to add your ball valve. What brand is the heater? Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Hall Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 9:13 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Guys, Got new water heater for house. Want to replace existing drain arrangement with ball valve for better draining. The fitting into the tank I think is probably not replaceable. But I could replace the plastic plug and screw a fitting/ball valve into it. It looks like this: http://imgur.com/wn4DPQg But I'm not sure what that thread is. It's not NPT--it seems to be about twice as coarse as NPT. I tried a 1/2" NPT spigot iftting I has here and it screws in, but it looks like it might be cutting its own threads into the fitting on the tank, which I think is Bad. Anyone familiar with what that thread might be? The plug's plastic so it won't rust, but it looks like it's just asking to have those tiny holes clogs, or for the whole plastic plug to embrittle and break. A nice ball valve with a big handle on it would be preferable. Scott _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 13 14:44:56 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51BF25895A9 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:44:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f175.google.com (mail-ob0-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE87225891DD for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 13:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obbda8 with SMTP id da8so94431920obb.1 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:50:44 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=1a5+7txqmj52LURUNa0m2xfoAhOpWJJaTHVyTioeNBw=; b=Y6HDQRol48tABTQliPyzurXmPomIKN85OwDG5yWhGvh/WZQhMP/PjAnGGDfPYDYlVF urfcLd+cgY+mO67XepMoetzWBf++wy9yCZ0YXm1DBNIeZfdS6pVHX9R20Db94VyOdzEH hCTgzbHpZVIqhk2CSQiKTw8uCtPMYS2+24yKI2ddcoZZODcbQGXuXW8WCHPvfWIPSJjZ ypTP+kgvknaXYpVCjAyn8aRU2eYrIIEbMrWeUZyzhjvdr4uuYd73Nf9xf0+aoM0aVmmY pJ2ipG3oY+kW6B9pxYUE95rMeRwXJqGar+xLyf+gDMHrBJVHz4XD9dpwS+Bbe6eROa15 6Lew== no2mr8494468oeb.47.1442173843901; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:50:43 -0700 (PDT) References: <014501d0ee5d$03ac7f30$0b057d90$@com> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:50:43 -0400 From: Scott Hall To: Pat Horne Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I just looked at them at the hardware store, Pat. I think it's removable. But I'm going to call them tomorrow to make sure. It's a Rheem "Performance". Scott On Sep 13, 2015 2:47 PM, "Pat Horne" wrote: > The part you show is just half the valve, the rest is the seat the shown > part seals against. I can't imagine that it is not removable. > If the rest of the valve is not removable you will not be able to add your > ball valve. What brand is the heater? > > Peace, > Pat > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Scott > Hall > Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2015 9:13 AM > To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help > > Guys, > > Got new water heater for house. Want to replace existing drain arrangement > with ball valve for better draining. > > The fitting into the tank I think is probably not replaceable. But I could > replace the plastic plug and screw a fitting/ball valve into it. It looks > like this: > > http://imgur.com/wn4DPQg > > But I'm not sure what that thread is. It's not NPT--it seems to be about > twice as coarse as NPT. > > I tried a 1/2" NPT spigot iftting I has here and it screws in, but it looks > like it might be cutting its own threads into the fitting on the tank, > which > I think is Bad. > > Anyone familiar with what that thread might be? > > The plug's plastic so it won't rust, but it looks like it's just asking to > have those tiny holes clogs, or for the whole plastic plug to embrittle and > break. A nice ball valve with a big handle on it would be preferable. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 13 16:20:12 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D387C25894AE for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 16:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.avvanta.com (smtp61.avvanta.com [206.124.128.61]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8DB2589154 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.avvanta.com (localhost.pops.p.blarg.net [127.0.0.1]) by mail.avvanta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67C0276CE7 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BigBlackIvy.racertodd.com (50-46-114-197.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.46.114.197]) by mail.avvanta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFCB276CE0 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:45:02 -0700 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Todd Walke mail.com> localhost.pops.p.blarg.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater drain help Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Here is what the whole drain valve assembly looks like: The part in your picture is just the outer part, you have to remove the other half. Looks like once the whole thing is out, you just need a ball valve for 3/4" pipe thread. This page talks about replacing a plastic drain valve: http://waterheatertimer.org/How-to-replace-water-heater-drain-valve.html Googling "replace plastic water heater drain valve" gets lots of pages about doing this. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 276,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 532,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 07:14:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B082589372 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:14:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479FE2588578 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 06:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wicge5 with SMTP id ge5so140750447wic.0 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 05:35:54 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=msbeuJYzqCiMkUErrlEYvDcNzyTbKhW454SXqbDGKHk=; b=X2IqXjhXIi0wDhySARcfWOlEZEOK7vGCiJFlTxTQm9kCV6aVNOr2EG7zAK9XXCYSr2 0VoWn1WHLsy/+1brjrQuPeap9g5+L18wBlkeC3yViGl6g7FsyjcPRq0O5RwUvKL4aF1e ukCKI9jXXH9dU2v1QYfYvCEa0B5/0C70oDH9shoW5mQRFIIkFpl6N0ysPgEIfRK9Isb2 oIsgF6aK2GDrl1zisHMxZ4p1vVmGhO9zLWVgnjLxfwFjAHHw7lEb87gWE0sSazu1yVQL U+0QW2NCWGrM3Cq/E5uYtDCl+Bgxn+hy9kuQcLAiNqq7TLmfnFiCbYdWyNZn3uR/UcLU a6Zg== n7mr25860329wiw.65.1442234154216; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 05:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.124.171 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 05:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:35:54 -0400 From: Gene Abbondelo To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Shop-talkers: I'm planning on getting my son a decent GPS for his car as a birthday gift. His car doesn't have one currently. I myself have never used one. Any recommendations on a good, reliable brand to get? What about updates? Thanks, Gene _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 08:13:59 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914B62585911 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo102.cox.net (eastrmfepo102.cox.net [68.230.241.214]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF5725892ED for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eastrmimpo306 ([68.230.241.238]) by eastrmfepo102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20150914133121.QRIX27841.eastrmfepo102.cox.net@eastrmimpo306> for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:31:21 -0400 Received: from John-PC.cox.net ([24.254.213.227]) by eastrmimpo306 with cox id H1Wk1r0084uwYHU011XL0i; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:31:20 -0400 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:17 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=PiO270B5S-sucbuNSwAA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=aav4MXMyVXkA:10 a=4zxjrV59PHAA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 a=GN0KnC8Q7SnS8KkF:21 a=45B8MbLre2BqyR5N:21 a=5hGLbXa1IqAM8wCB1ScA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=SD7HGueDRAOR7457:21 a=ln1RYqEFP38vpEt5:21 a=jjbyPTVgTGWKVbXc:21 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:30:32 -0400 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net From: "John T. Blair" References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net At 08:35 AM 9/14/2015, Gene Abbondelo wrote: >I'm planning on getting my son a decent GPS for his car as a birthday gift. His >car doesn't have one currently. I myself have never used one. Any >recommendations on a good, reliable brand to get? What about updates? Gene, I prefer simpler things. I have a Gramon that I paid about $125 for at least 5 years old. I like it and I especially like the ability to find things by type, like food - steak, fast food, etc, Drug store, etc. I think most of them now have voice turn by turn which is a must have so you can keep your eyes on the road more. The only down side to these commercial gps, is they require periodic update for their maps (databases). This can cost about $100. So look what the vendor does for map updates. Now that being said, does you son have a smart phone or thinking of getting one is the near futgure? If so you he won't really need a gps. A smart phone can access google maps if you have a data plan for the phone. This not only will route you, it show traffic slowdowns, and can/will try to route out around major delays. Some of the GPSs do this but they charge extra for it. So you need to look at the cost of the GPS, map updates, traffic alerts vs a smart phone, it's data plan and using google maps. Now that my wife has the smart phone, we usually use that when we are on the road. But if I'm going somplace in my car (I don't have a smart phone) I take my gps and get buy with it. One other thing in closing, the gps I have isn't as accomodating as google maps is for finding a round and our letting you easily modifiy the route. Bottom line, I prefer the google maps with the data plan. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 08:14:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D242588E3B for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.39]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84162588AEA for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.105]) by resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id H1fa1r0032GyhjZ011fiNa; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:39:42 +0000 Received: from resmail-ch2-793v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.51.64]) by resomta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id H1fi1r0061P6glN011fi3i; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:39:42 +0000 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:39:41 +0000 (UTC) From: Tom & Marge FitzGibbon To: Gene Abbondelo References: (Win)/8.0.7_GA_6031) Thread-Topic: Looking for GPS recommendations Thread-Index: 9u1uhjamHloO1Lldi8p+gnICGOwX0g== s=q20140121; t=1442237982; bh=FSyvycY03ooNhLEE5h98wPjt43afmqgTS+SCl+yf5i4=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=jWXCvAC8h9Zlcun33hvk4MJ8xLm6tjmGCD/3c30ZowDZ2qvWLYa+05Pujd7ecjR8r UKaftbOfB3XbRg3VcmlemeTDNw5ZAM7thSgcdbmc54tBPwyb9CvalKbQOZrteVslFl grDFDjpGOpum3B8XaovzGlThNyRarbeY6WDviHuyygA+X+oZWfJhCbTdjaXm5K84K5 mHkJE42KV/xc9J6MaPD9SgmPo/u9jCLUT4fZTAXnyr98bwEUAkvHxf1R9/FaDnzOx9 6ZsGXLQELY3bjAtdEhyzL8btB4d/rjE4N3eynhjtr/H3XXQmyy789aZcwjX1ooe7Uc bLTEQwNX3zTZA== Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net What is the GPS for (driving, hiking, boating, etc.)?B If for driving, are you planning on getting a portable GPS or an after-market in dash GPS?B I bought portable Garmin nuvi models (I don't recall the model numbers, sorry) for my wife and daughter and they are fine.B A little slow to find the satellites on start-up, but only very occasionally slow to update while driving.B I like a lot of the map features.B My wife's GPS supposedly shows traffic and helps route around it, but I'm not sure she has ever successfully gotten that feature to work.B You may want to look for one that provides lifetime map updates if you can. B For my fun car, I could fit a double-DIN stereo so I went with a Pioneer in-dash AVIC GPS (mine's a few years old but newer models are available).B I prefer the in-dash for several reasons, including it acquires the satellites faster, mine provides integrated blue-tooth connectivity for my phone, and I don't have to have a separate mount so it saves dash space. B By the way, I also bought a GPS for my son and he used it once.B He prefers to use Google Maps on his phone. B Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Abbondelo" To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 8:35:54 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Shop-talkers: I'm planning on getting my son a decent GPS for his car as a birthday gift. His car doesn't have one currently. B I myself have never used one. B Any recommendations on a good, reliable brand to get? What about updates? Thanks, B Gene _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fitzgibbon3@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 08:45:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA472588239 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f177.google.com (mail-io0-f177.google.com [209.85.223.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED222588CEA for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ioiz6 with SMTP id z6so165632859ioi.2 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 06:53:42 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Z7QHqHifhu89sixhcrUxYIlsWe6H8PldkBr9PrzRzzI=; b=Z08JX2uzoFphs6quU0pIV4tsF2PO4+xwu95CH+FUlkMR9ThlSLXICzHe0DwDq0l2dc klj8u9VuOvfiwsv8rceufaHu6/XppoHd043x4RDB/wzqhycyoC8CU2+KSxYrbxL8KCWF uFv5zlwGVcElqPr6P7UHPByWDu9viXsZRtmlhHThprlBCKOh/K4EUBf2Msy/0YXUlPVS T7Slaw8sgcFD1R4kb1InHSH2rWGNexsFz/VljrTJJnYSnZG8owgeyASKLvySjxqDwZ+o Yi7tqpNFi2yxh3QVVpDw9sM+VfCoJ9eHiJ6YewjgtasZ70vDwwEmewgCoTWwpjyxnZpp Ll2Q== j137mr25019019ioe.13.1442238822141; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 06:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.30.226 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 06:53:42 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:53:42 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: Gene Abbondelo Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net It depends... :) I have a Garmin Nuvi currently. I'm perfectly satisfied with it, and with Garmin in general (I've used many of their navigation products over the last ten years). Features to consider: Screen size - bigger is better, up to a point Lifetime map updates - don't buy without this feature. Map updatess can cost as much as a whole new unit... Street names - a voice telling you to "turn right onto Oak Street in 500 feet" is more useful than the one that says "turn right in 500 feet" Here's an example of something to consider: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3V71C31741 Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Gene Abbondelo wrote: > Shop-talkers: > > I'm planning on getting my son a decent GPS for his car as a birthday gift. > His car doesn't have one currently. I myself have never used one. Any > recommendations on a good, reliable brand to get? What about updates? > > Thanks, Gene > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 09:15:47 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4AB2588ADA for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D10E2588443 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:23:29 -0600 (MDT) s=alpha; t=1442240626; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type:To; b=GurTKj9JYDJAYwmvlrNV6i8Y7aU/tj8OoOeRLMOHAGH4EEDxmO1aqHA7Y7YBh9d4n V47J6wCRwX7An0VsDqCGOTiZ+KsAc1Q0t5moub5ZTVkvHvvayo0nXySFqhR3LTUaBJ RGPoyZX0PA2YaLhQ90ErMLD81nfLIOs2mmwUVquY= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail08.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.148]) by smtpout03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABL9PYDKAXC98H2 for (sender ); Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.76.179.156] by webmail08.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:22:19 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:22:19 GMT Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net To: Undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net +1 for google maps w/ smart phone. MB _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 10:43:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EA225888A0 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 10:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f51.google.com (mail-qg0-f51.google.com [209.85.192.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8624C2588C47 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by qgez77 with SMTP id z77so118788914qge.1 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:46:35 -0700 (PDT) h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:to; bh=wSbQjWLJeoS5yEsSam+dLiVNO4kcUtZDj98HpGJmUCE=; b=dg5GNe0kpC2JPUReVo6I2q+hcPetEQADEM1LxrED+04nlNWFjcTHaFP1ARyHUZLK+r moas5dqxzUEg3ep62smzIFGRFDYCOMnJfuylcx2iNPcVLUkw2qefn6wBGX5xIHENTp3Q gVH7uTp0cCUrh+NvrpnwHEErqItCclesScnoOhKphjr/U8C9m2wwBf+SQ9V5l4RYnRsb BrzsyKyfKDPRw4AH54DtOzIYkcvX/pSJMe4mVPjXRjsU38SJXTUfGqgNoNsKgYafJ6ok SzyuO/gzNjMe1pLOaoESH24Pw6t0lmTrA0d3eVC+SnePP6o2P8trQFJVxrDorm4RMXiL 03ZQ== 134mr24482691qhx.49.1442245594998; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.203.243.74] (mobile-107-107-58-253.mycingular.net. [107.107.58.253]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o4sm6096182qki.43.2015.09.14.08.46.34 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:46:33 -0400 References: <20150914.102219.1150.2@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> To: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have a 5 year old Garmin that I rarely use, thanks to Google Maps on my phone. The only thing I ever use the Garmin for is the ability to find places to eat on my route. Google will find everything around me, but limiting the search to the road I am on is a handy feature on long drives. There may be a way to do this on G Maps, but I haven't found it. One other comment on Garmins. I definitely agree about the importance of getting one with lifetime updates, but one thing I noticed was that each update seemed to further tax the system. The device became slower every time I updated the maps. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 14, 2015, at 10:22 AM, Matt wrote: > > +1 for google maps w/ smart phone. MB > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 11:14:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680F825882F9 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.225]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E89A25883D4 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 10:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:4130] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 90/F2-13708-677F6F55; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:36:06 +0000 From: "Randall" Cc: "'shop-talk@autox.team.net'" Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:35:59 -0700 Thread-Index: AdDu/BG1UYrEDDckTzSagYAPMDNcigADU6Xw Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Lifetime map updates - don't buy without this feature. Map updatess > can cost as much as a whole new unit... I agree entirely, but don't expect too much from the updates. I updated my Nuvi just before leaving home on a road trip a few months ago, and found at least a half dozen places where the updated map did not match the actual road. Some of the incorrect roads had been changed recently (within the past year), but others were at least several years old. We also found a restaurant listing where a new restaurant was listed in the same location, but the old one had not been deleted; plus several more that just weren't there (and no sign they had been there recently). The Nuvi also doesn't tell you about roads that are only passable at certain times; eg ferries that don't run on some days or fords that are impassable when the water is high. OTOH, Google maps seems to usually think such things just don't exist. My brother-in-law's smart phone was going to route us 50+ miles out of the way, instead of waiting 10 minutes for the next ferry. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 12:12:09 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D82A2588C8B for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.35]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E08A2588C6C for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-19v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.115]) by resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id H5aV1r0012VvR6D015anda; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:34:47 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([68.49.166.245]) by resomta-ch2-19v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id H5am1r00D5J08Bo015am8y; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:34:46 +0000 From: Brian Kennedy Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:34:46 -0400 References: <90.F2.13708.677F6F55@cdptpa-oedge01> To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" s=q20140121; t=1442252087; bh=eQ+pEEDlZ+ya0JnA9Np3KdRldYY8CnCPC/7oNjjQazc=; h=Received:Received:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=LmUBtEFnCOe2c3Q94w+BpMnt4DeFonBamKId93lBYLrunLo8z+cf6CQQGRQJpjLgi hzFzql2WhRPd9jUP27kGSOo/fWGnxN+s9JVAOGeldLuBKgEiSoYi+2TMQPnJLoAWID 6pN/c/RiYW0adN4Li+HHLJykHtSdgWVzaKWily/IeIVBhuGD/ut7k09EOtqgADKmaA E/yaUUsvXMqA7piiFm0dh/FVEhkf8Wy7K8Dm3W4bejWZ5wky9gnr4P/UDshKkTVvmU Po5rwdOmIuKPXx07JUsW+dlcIzftPhRFfHnhkR9k5eQ/kHY/fQjwbuO1NSH5nYRtE1 I4rHWVBsM5xYQ== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've had/have several Garmins and an in car GPS. Since I keep my cars forever, I'll never get an in car one again due to obsolescence and I don't like having to look down to see it. I put my Garmins in the lower left windshield. It's easy to see and reach and doesn't obscure my view. The phone GPS is OK, but I'd only use it when a passenger can help. Of course, get the lifetime updates. The thing I like best is the traffic feature. I use my GPS locally just to get the traffic information. It's not perfect, of course, but it's saved me a lot of time on occasion. I also like to be able to turn off the expressway access in the cities so I don't get hung up in long lines. It is not perfect, of course, and a peek at the route beforehand can save you some grief, or, if you're an optimist, new sights. I did have one fail and Garmin promptly replaced it, so I'm happy with the service so far. Brian K On Sep 14, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Randall wrote: >> Lifetime map updates - don't buy without this feature. Map updatess >> can cost as much as a whole new unit... > > I agree entirely, but don't expect too much from the updates. I updated my Nuvi just before leaving home on a road trip a few > months ago, and found at least a half dozen places where the updated map did not match the actual road. Some of the incorrect roads > had been changed recently (within the past year), but others were at least several years old. We also found a restaurant listing > where a new restaurant was listed in the same location, but the old one had not been deleted; plus several more that just weren't > there (and no sign they had been there recently). > > The Nuvi also doesn't tell you about roads that are only passable at certain times; eg ferries that don't run on some days or fords > that are impassable when the water is high. > > OTOH, Google maps seems to usually think such things just don't exist. My brother-in-law's smart phone was going to route us 50+ > miles out of the way, instead of waiting 10 minutes for the next ferry. > > -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 13:17:28 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562322588B59 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f172.google.com (mail-ig0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4822588016 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:24:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igbni9 with SMTP id ni9so88218113igb.0 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:25:01 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=tcxE7+cowz6Ypc9mdRgZklbTplx334hmpbxDsJdn4ss=; b=wU6PDCHb8lEoQ6RgH4sqW2SLI7cq+M9cZhwvw5dXmLC33djV+EJfTps9zHFfeMHxe8 27DkxHIQdjboSokBOnlcUvGMNuWRBFuE1oRXJgfuOD4NaywwgPE8dEJbcAaJ5FfpLd1s 9xGVzqdiy3XfafwNStlIr1i8HCsZ+nipItmQeau0HdmSuR0Q1cToc5kOudEBCjiuMTRG nT6pmUpuh5eqjMeqQnu+zEAr+bTatX6YSIMR4wwmjTdhm0NF7jk1JX900ANtkjtl6rLJ opNtDBuic9EyHS3fV8Uhen9xVR8SVKOtjNo4IkTcUdrmr8KkjkAoV4neas828HKZ32Ch BYwA== sa1mr21560758igb.32.1442255101651; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.30.226 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:25:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <90.F2.13708.677F6F55@cdptpa-oedge01> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:25:01 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Brian Kennedy wrote: > The thing I like best is the traffic feature. I use my GPS locally > just to get the traffic information. For the smartphone crowd, there's an app called Waze...it uses your motion data to create a picture of the spots where traffic might not be moving. Also locates accidents, cops hiding behind billboards, etc. https://www.waze.com/ The usual privacy questions arise, but privacy is an illusion these days... Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 13:17:53 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0372588CFC for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779E32588066 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0NUO002KIJ6OER00@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:23:32 -0400 From: Steven Trovato To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <20150914.102219.1150.2@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net OK, so all you smart phone/google maps people, do you use a mount that holds the phone up in some appropriate viewing place? What do you do when you receive a phone call? Do you use the speakerphone feature or bluetooth to something else? My garmin serves as my hands free bluetooth phone interface. In this age of no handheld phones and no texting, navigating is pretty much the same thing if you hold the phone and enter search data. I don't know how law enforcement responds to "No officer, I wasn't calling or texting, I was navigating." At 10:22 AM 9/14/2015, Matt wrote: > +1 for google maps w/ smart phone. MB _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 13:18:12 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322CA2588D17 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F8B25886CE for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:31:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0NUO00EGDJH2DP40@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:30:29 -0400 From: Steven Trovato To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <90.F2.13708.677F6F55@cdptpa-oedge01> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net They are generally overpriced, and although updates are often available, the update alone costs more than a new Garmin unit. I kind of like the built in aspect, not having some thing sitting on my dash or stuck to my window. My wife has a Toyota Venza with built-in nav, and it refuses to allow most interaction while the car is moving. I get the safety concern, but it is frustrating as hell when we are together and the passenger is trying to use it. -Steve At 01:34 PM 9/14/2015, Brian Kennedy wrote: >I'll never get an in car one again due to obsolescence and I don't like having >to look down to see it. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 13:18:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172B12588DE5 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from gateway33.websitewelcome.com (gateway33.websitewelcome.com [192.185.145.4]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5DA25886CE for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by gateway33.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id 6A5794D01ABA3; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:34:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator4190.hostgator.com (gator4190.hostgator.com [108.167.189.15]) by gateway33.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67C434D01AB85 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:34:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.111.216.187] (port=58308 helo=[192.168.1.101]) by gator4190.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZbYZq-000DsV-8E for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:34:06 -0500 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <90.F2.13708.677F6F55@cdptpa-oedge01> From: Mike Rambour Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:34:05 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 with any abuse report Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net another option is to find a old phone (one with a big screen) and use it as a GPS withOUT service. I travel to Europe frequently and I don't have (or don't want to pay for phone service) while I am there. I purchased TomTom software for the phone with maps built-in. It does NOT need service or the internet to work, the negative is that the maps, etc. took a 1.5 gigs of space on the phone and of course its not up to date like Google maps are but TomTom (I assume all the others also) give free maps updates twice a year. You can get the maps for the U.S. and install the full navigation system on your phone OR a old phone. I now have a iPhone and if I am going to be in France more than a week I will get a sim with a local contract for phone and internet, if I am going to be there less than a week I just use the phone with no service as a navigation system and occasionally connect to wifi hotspots for internet. This system works well for me, the iPhone 5 is big enough to mount on the dash and see it. The bluetooth works with all the rental cars I have had so far so I get voice navigation over the radio (if not then listen to the small iPhone speaker) and for me the best part is that i don't have to carry extra chargers, etc.. Lastly, it just slides into my pocket when I want to go for a walk and not get lost. Mike _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 14:13:45 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F13D2588BDC for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:13:45 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f173.google.com (mail-wi0-f173.google.com [209.85.212.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCAA2588DC5 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wicge5 with SMTP id ge5so156447300wic.0 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:27:41 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=3zNayuFAEVqUvcoRbzb+6aYuTHj6L8AF7Ailpz5JkkE=; b=TIjUTA5P/Ip23pY0n+Gr2F8gutWu4iyaO6Pis7uUWIUje+CqhSMW6j61jv9/u4Tfct ZJJxIbaoVGKmpUtyy834B+yj34QNS6f3TYMzohQGKeeXCHhBsrHeW06eYKHa64eLcRKq N8wpHTg0FM43HwkzXW8gmrYOQ6F4J4tTwipMDw5zJKeH+xVx7hHAFKtmL2An9tRZE1MM dqJSRkx2EzlANLq4Ix0/z/cEx7dzgcyakXOZcez7aDspf/kL0kP8CaBUsKNmycefhRP/ rmFI6bZQ6u7Ko0Hljv3nAdw4SYjqlDaHfZJQUGlvkG1p6JsqFx2atI8rOlT7Lw9tFhOf Z1wA== fx1mr13503328wic.31.1442258861244; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.28.134.65 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:27:41 -0700 (PDT) References: <90.F2.13708.677F6F55@cdptpa-oedge01> <55F7131D.2060801@dinospider.com> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:27:41 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Looking for GPS recommendations Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have used Garmin GPSes for years, and I have been happy with them. If you get one, be sure to pay a little extra to get a version with free lifetime map updates! The last time I bought one, I paid something like $20 extra for this. Otherwise each map update would have cost about $50. Doug _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 14 20:39:14 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2814625887DD for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 20:39:14 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.avvanta.com (smtp61.avvanta.com [206.124.128.61]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD8962588503 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 20:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.avvanta.com (localhost.drteeth.p.blarg.net [127.0.0.1]) by mail.avvanta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20720F3937 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BigBlackIvy.racertodd.com (50-46-114-197.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.46.114.197]) by mail.avvanta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A0CFF3935 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:06:19 -0700 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Todd Walke References: <20150914.102219.1150.2@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> <20150914.102219.1150.2@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> localhost.drteeth.p.blarg.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone mounts Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Steve wrote: >OK, so all you smart phone/google maps people, do you use a mount that >holds the phone up in some appropriate viewing place? What do you do when >you receive a phone call? Do you use the speakerphone feature or >bluetooth to something else? I use the Kenu Airframe (http://www.kenu.com/products/airframe). Clips into most any air vent. Doesn't get the phone right my line of sight, but then I'm listening to the Google Maps voice directions mostly. The Airframe+ works with larger phones. It's small enough that when I'm not using it I can just toss it into the ashtray and out of my way. My car doesn't have Bluetooth so I use a Motorola Roadster 2 universal Bluetooth speakerphone. It clips into my sunvisor and communicates via Bluetooth with my iPhone. I can make calls handfree and the Roadster volume is much louder than the iPhone so I can hear it clearly. It uses dual microphones with noise cancelling technology, people report they can hear me very clearly. It'll also take music on your phone and broadcast it on an FM freq so you can listen to your music collection on older stereos. Haven't used that feature, don't know how it works. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 276,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 532,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 16 08:54:42 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222E62589D4F for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f169.google.com (mail-ig0-f169.google.com [209.85.213.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8063D2589B0B for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igbkq10 with SMTP id kq10so36009517igb.0 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8XSRpx6+iX8+sYJKn6IF1nboMwSKEPNYrrd4gzWqJb8=; b=Dz8mr7heRfbSJEZq2zGNJ26o6Unz+bNkAGYHpaH2hZPohhxWAg6TBG+rEaDJ0uZ67E fYEKYwqPiT3+kD7DBC51zLYL/1eUyrHrd5JE6fyKyB+rNQj9Lqp8UNwCZITIU6Ee+Sj6 fitS4X8ycfloontXUC0FxapS0aZ386+wo8IzF0k0DZu26FDAj46M6b+3v1fmHbs05owZ bA4vm4bCBFctklipm/1S59ILfjK5ZM5KK9NBpfjBNK6zSrkzbdzqARI+e0TyPjkdBFLb QjC6sRI6n+PMAH/S5jFFFje6yNjvhOa1T8U7JgMvtCHIbvwSjuufXAMPBzvCS4Y20fYW qnlw== ri2mr16980416igc.5.1442414284180; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:38:04 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:38:04 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: Joe Szwed Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Joe, Thanks for the info on the torsion/leaf differences. I think the only time I've dealt with a torsion suspension was on an old Airstream trailer. The rubber inside the tubes had definitely deteriorated as the trailer sat a lot lower than it should have. It's my understanding as the rubber deteriorates the axle rotates such that it has less travel and the wheel moves up into the wheel well more. I've never heard of using blocks like you suggested but it sounds interesting. I would think one key would be to ensure the blocks can't move out of position. I've thought about a generator but since I'll mostly be towing with a motorhome with on-board generator I don't think I want to go to the hassle or expense of adding a generator to the trailer. Thanks or the feedback! Brad On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Joe Szwed wrote: > What I have seen some guys do with race cars is they use blocks or stands > made that they put under the chassis where they strap to it, so they pull > the chassis down tight on the blocks to the trailer. This way the car is > not bouncing on its own suspension nor are they loading down the suspension > very much. Not sure if that's an option with your car. > > Torsion suspension on a trailer typically allows the trailer to sit a > little lower, because the trailer frame is basically sitting right on the > axle. > > Extended tongues are nice as gives you room to mount a generator on it. > > Wiring the trailer for line voltage is really nice if you need to work on > the car at where ever your going. You can use standard light fixtures and > outlets, run a compressor or other power tools as long as you have a > generator or a place to plug into. > > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bkahler1@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 16 09:11:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4895B2589D68 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 09:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f176.google.com (mail-ig0-f176.google.com [209.85.213.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39852589874 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igbkq10 with SMTP id kq10so36567173igb.0 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:47:54 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NLaD5wvD6W9S7cWQVjDD/tCsSYutDgkQAT4RoTKb1gA=; b=c/q8jurXxONTTn5lemfNnUqe3EjKsswZRRBOTXsmSd9JCd0nALdcjZGEevcqLCZ5HT enti6eyA9kXnxZxIgqw/4E9uJ4hbQ1xeAEwHe0AHthrsgtac0thzNIVSRzDVHe2+h29o tN8ba64v29YBgjEPzpPZ6fpltiwDe2iM/vyoTFQd358hHes8CcvX/FkSPcyLURuABGG7 WJqDadRAyNvztYX+DV9X5E51wCOJh7emk+ZJ999t9LTg73Bvc+RxA7Q2pym2BG72MO4y jORitXpmmk1oYjpK/ajbOR3UCs4qOEnzEPv/uaunV9DXodNbrU7/Tq47VsOe9sB0ELkS KDkg== y1mr16823522igl.38.1442414874359; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.68 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:47:54 -0700 (PDT) References: <14fb1efc30a-24df-27a47@webprd-a46.mail.aol.com> <55F0481F.2090004@dinospider.com> <701807794B41495E9E3B1640FC0A3EC0@StevePC> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:47:54 -0400 From: Brad Kahler To: David Hillman Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer (random thoughts) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Wed, 9 Sep 2015, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > >> Here?s what I?ve learned: >> > > Since we're on the topic; two simple little things that make hauling > cars much easier for me. Both came on my current trailer, but I will > install them on my next x trailers. > > Tie-down hangers. Just two little pieces of aluminum angle, with a few > holes drilled in one leg, mounted to the top of the walls roughly above > each floor d-ring. Unhook the tie-down from the car, and hang that end on > the up on the wall. The opposite end always stay hooked to the d-rings, > but out of the way. I can drive in and be securely tied-down in under a > minute, if necessary. > > Nice idea! I would assume that the D-rings are pretty much located in the outer corners of the trailer for this to work effectively. > Floor-level wall-mounted E-track. Mine goes the entire trailer length, > but really the handiest bit is between the human door and the wheel wells. > Here I keep two E-track beam pockets, and a 2x4 spanning the width of the > trailer. Drive in 'til the front wheels hit the 2x4, and you're good. No > fussing around with positioning the car. Hook the front tie-downs and pull > the car against the 2x4, then attach the rears. Not moving from the same > spot every time. Also doubles as an anchor point when using a come-along > to trailer a dead racecar ( I could buy a winch, but some people pay good > money for that workout ;) ) > > I've seen setups similar to what you describe but I've never looked to see how they were setup. I'm going to have to look at what sort of attachments are available for e-track. Thanks, Brad _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Sep 18 23:29:34 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 301DB2587D77 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 23:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f171.google.com (mail-ig0-f171.google.com [209.85.213.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613352585A02 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 23:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igxx6 with SMTP id x6so30221860igx.1 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:22:21 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=DPlaR90j0Tmz3LhaOLyhrSyT3nTnnFPAPtO5APjbnDY=; b=lKvo3XGQpsGllzavPPyuLto3cmLz9AP4mBsjUnQQZv4o8hLhI3stpEFO/e2ae6iPxz U80ZxQedD7lM1eOHkMpol/m+Ws525cJJ5YYHMvThtneNYl3bOCunVux2yJT73PxCHJKp 8xaqwKKu4cbLEux37D/t+RYkUN2AlgKgK+MYikhWo4gtslT+p87BRhJ/J/XOxgQBYSu7 JGw8duHO5wGAUWSpscAd/uYy2/VbLtaA8b69zs85qb4i3THZNbyBDDsOFAVwggvwp8Ys d+Usl7oJxKoItuPhuSQQ3aIGxSt/NJ6kJqZvx0RY09gIU0kEjuCUQaayh5qo1D6c5oVY YWKw== pi5mr1653514igb.69.1442640141410; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.52.3 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:22:21 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:22:21 -0500 From: Philip Ethier To: Brad Kahler Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Enclosed car trailer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Brad Kahler wrote: > Sometime in the next 6 months or so I'm thinking about buying an enclosed > car trailer for hauling my TR6 behind my motorhome. > > For those of you who may have been down this road I'd like to ask a few > questions: > > 1) Did you use E-track for tying the car down? > Yes. The is no place on an Elise I want to put a hook on. Stag is pretty-much the same story. > > 2) If you used E-track how did you fasten it to the floor? > 1/4-inch bolts. Like 400 of them. 2" fender washers and Nyloc nuts. Every hole gets a bolt. > 3) If you used E-track how hard is it to tire bonnets with ratchets on a > small car like a TR6? > Easy. Use the three-point system. End of the strap is E-track clip. Then the strap (for the elise, with wide tires over the E-track) or basket-formed from straps (for cars with narrower track and/or skinny tires). Then a strap-pulley attached to an E-track clip. Then the ratchet (which runs horizontally outside the outline of the car). Then the third and final E-track clip. > > 4) If you didn't use E-track how did you tie the car down? > > 5) Did you get an extended tongue? > No. > > 6) Would you prefer a torsion axle over leaf springs? > Yes. The load floor is lower. > > 7) Did you get any 120vac wiring installed or did you wire it yourself for > 120vac? > No. > > 8) Did you opt for a roof top air conditioner? > No. > > 9) Did you buy a 7' wide, 8' wide or 8'-6" wide trailer? And why did you > select that width? > 8'-6". I like to have room to get around the car. In addition, I have a left access door. Being able to open the car door on the Elise is a must, unless I always winch it in. My winch with a wireless remotw cost 50 bucks on sale at Harbor Freight. > > Ok maybe more than a few questions! > > Thanks! > > Brad > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7@gmail.com > > -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl http://www.mnautox.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 07:48:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D152587B9E for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 07:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f179.google.com (mail-ob0-f179.google.com [209.85.214.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037FF25865BE for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 07:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obbbh8 with SMTP id bh8so55874144obb.0 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 06:48:29 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=bLqFus5Xc+DfwF2PGirUzsuvgN3i6xXpkAfJCe8Vdj8=; b=XazTo/zNUx8MPHNGNloOg6iaoov1NiN6ly5OLDdX323OkgfUS+Qxz4BBeWFFpD0ke6 cu8RWNJm7J4iu3YRTHPjdrhVeUeV/V82fwL1PwWfBTmuORufprWMK5C3PU4MbBR4zW5k rS2lhRel8e1Esgs2HfDDqpO2GiQJ9VGlF0qFe9D4MCXjppiRH+01iPVQ2aqwjHpaNVT0 3j82C2hWY6HN6H85mBb39t5pccPsVIdnB0/6xBvO9JoZMTSeUpUCdr6UTkexaRpfTjow uvJorFFnRTPEwdugo+D2SFI0d4HG+dT7AYMkUB3S+pBPHDNuvasPMZ/IsaU8u94ujYkf jKzw== kn2mr6523024oeb.80.1442670508684; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 06:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 06:47:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Hall Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:47:49 -0400 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Okay fellas, This: http://imgur.com/MGMpgzC Thing lives in my basement, upstream of where the washer and dryer plug in. I get that it seems to be some sort of primitive "fuse box", and the 'bulb socket' is where a screw-in fuse goes. I know this because the thing has a sticker that references fuses and I found fuses with light-bulb threads on the back at home depot. Issues: 1) The sticker references a 20 H.P. (I assume horsepower?) load. Not amps or volts, "H.P.". The fuses at Home Depot are not listed by horsepower (or H.P.). What the heck? 2) How's this thing...work? That black wire going out of the picture at 4:00 is the same one you see coming back in the picture at 2:00. I bent is back that way because it looks like the cut ends should match up. I have no idea why it's cut, or even if that's where that wire should go. How should I re-wire this? 3) There's that open screw terminal at about 8:00 on the fuse socket. I feel like there wouldn't be a terminal there unless something was supposed to screw into it. Why's it there? 4) That big black thing in the middle is an On/Off switch. Should fuse boxes have an On/Off switch? I thought they just work, and stop if the fuse pops. 5) Basically, should I just get rid of this thing, or keep it, or replace it with a more-modern something? I suspect it's there to keep the 220-volt dryer from burning the house down (good idea), but the whole setup looks pretty slapdash. Any primers or advice welcomed. Also, house has yet to blow up and no leaks detected with new gas lines. I only did a very small section, but I'm pretty happy with myself. And hot water is nice. :-) Scott _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 08:33:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262C52587DED for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:33:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BF12587A12 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:28:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id ACEA48FF13; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A258FC0E; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:29:13 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: Scott Hall References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sat, 19 Sep 2015, Scott Hall wrote: > 5) Basically, should I just get rid of this thing, or keep it, or replace > it with a more-modern something? I suspect it's there to keep the 220-volt > dryer from burning the house down (good idea), but the whole setup looks > pretty slapdash. It's a fused service disconnect, isn't it? An old one. Out of curiousity, does it have an Underwriters Lab stamp on it? I'm not generally a fan of old electrical bits in my house, so I'd rip it out, and then replace if deemed necessary. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 08:34:16 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685B22587E50 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D792E2587A12 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:30:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:2031] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge03 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 73/EE-01974-F917DF55; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 14:30:56 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Scott Hall'" , Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 07:30:59 -0700 Thread-Index: AdDy4ebzqfPgIlHwRPayODknDxghggABPGXQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Just get rid of it! It doesn't appear to actually be in the circuit anyway; someone has wired around the fuse socket. A shot of that sticker might be interesting. I've seen electrical devices rated by horsepower, but that box doesn't look even faintly like it could handle 20kW continuous (which is about what it takes for a 20 hp motor). -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 08:49:41 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EDC12587E9E for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.233]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040F82585C27 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice ([184.105.18.14]) by p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id K2ph1r0090JCzvc012piUW; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 07:49:42 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Scott Hall'" , References: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:49:32 -0500 Thread-Index: AdDy4e6y9hOAy3EhT2+Npuo9aqnmjQABzScA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Looks like a fused disconnect to me. I'd replace or remove it. Is that circuit fused/or a breaker before it gets to this box? If so, there is no need for it. If there is no fuse or breaker, then a fuse or breaker is needed. I'd get a small, breaker box and put it in if that is the case. Since this for a 220v circuit, you should not use fuses, but a double breaker so that if one side trips the other will trip also. What is the gauge of the wire? It looks to be too small to run a drier on. Mist driers are on 8 ga. Wire. If this is smaller than that you should Replace the wire back to the breaker panel with larger wire. Also, there does not appear to be a ground wire in this box. For safety you need a ground wire for any 220v device. Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Hall Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 8:48 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Okay fellas, This: http://imgur.com/MGMpgzC Thing lives in my basement, upstream of where the washer and dryer plug in. I get that it seems to be some sort of primitive "fuse box", and the 'bulb socket' is where a screw-in fuse goes. I know this because the thing has a sticker that references fuses and I found fuses with light-bulb threads on the back at home depot. Issues: 1) The sticker references a 20 H.P. (I assume horsepower?) load. Not amps or volts, "H.P.". The fuses at Home Depot are not listed by horsepower (or H.P.). What the heck? 2) How's this thing...work? That black wire going out of the picture at 4:00 is the same one you see coming back in the picture at 2:00. I bent is back that way because it looks like the cut ends should match up. I have no idea why it's cut, or even if that's where that wire should go. How should I re-wire this? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 10:05:09 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792192588482 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:05:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f44.google.com (mail-oi0-f44.google.com [209.85.218.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A52525879E8 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:58:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by oibi136 with SMTP id i136so40549085oib.3 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:58:51 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=3HssUlG/SgitcVFpS1fFUnr7IvVlhGdsIzRGmfeKQ0I=; b=otqL1jSf0QL+JzcYe7LgH40rnGtJpy3boCYAcXv5qviVGcWLemkrjjODM1Pf53YeP7 q/2KC9SOdWCD3sV72HWPNJ29Jll0jz/2Fn0bFuKJkKOI9Ehw2riK9+83p9vuTupJRTWC HkS9W/PLYJM9D8gYB0ucf3i33TbNrxesn5XGfsfd434Lc4QTV5ekF9OVDOQgUClB7N1i 2Zf9V8Rw23VFlOKsC7EyI6+B3BJ4BvbjklPc72UT1LiA0SonBEliWVM3mHLU9ZwrNkZP nLMaBXbWrJidDEa3DDeOZewk3MVI6CD9sIf0ZPBeSFXJ/aX/yIj1zzHIWW/yTkC9/7DC kozA== n126mr4351832oif.120.1442678331751; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:58:12 -0700 (PDT) References: From: Scott Hall Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:58:12 -0400 To: David Hillman Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Ah, so it's a primitive breaker? It'll protect the circuit (fuse), and allow me to just turn it off whenever I want (the switch). That seems...okay. But also not a fan of this setup. I'm not sure old is always bad, but I'm not sure this thing was great when new. I'll look for a UL sticker. On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 10:29 AM, David Hillman wrote: > On Sat, 19 Sep 2015, Scott Hall wrote: > >> 5) Basically, should I just get rid of this thing, or keep it, or replace >> it with a more-modern something? I suspect it's there to keep the 220-volt >> dryer from burning the house down (good idea), but the whole setup looks >> pretty slapdash. >> > > It's a fused service disconnect, isn't it? An old one. > > Out of curiousity, does it have an Underwriters Lab stamp on it? I'm > not generally a fan of old electrical bits in my house, so I'd rip it out, > and then replace if deemed necessary. > > -- > David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 10:05:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6493B2588991 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com (mail-ob0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D71425879E8 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obbmp4 with SMTP id mp4so22705196obb.3 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:01:35 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=xi/dbm/ZgIDoRoI7v2bkazY/5WN7ug0s7iRwBhSCIgw=; b=vkuWNG+PWF/dcl4XobHF154VIpgtcF2wRwLgfLf1BEI/vejLp619Oi4SgTOHP2Zg+C /n78K1ghJ5nK5P1p7JNGDd1is9sBX2zW+dTZqgRVh7VB5uzJjVD7u62WPgG2nadrNrNs rAFR3leS+RizvTGElQK8+wtEHcENM8NdB8NDYAlb2X7mNjcKO8OcgxJuWx/BGyi+c2nX XKyoVx0hC3lwfjZcVvfPTMo8ZoBrO6FHFWRmBIo3d8AFEaDkW/hO/cZqCEbSlXP7aRBx uDsenK423Bph6VjSh68QpS59+hh8p6wUJhCcDMoMfnbnI/u8yHiENhGSYw7bbwWRblWu pVbw== v17mr7302188obt.26.1442678495903; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:00:56 -0700 (PDT) References: <73.EE.01974.F917DF55@cdptpa-oedge03> From: Scott Hall Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:00:56 -0400 To: Randall Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Should I replace it with something? I'm a big fan of not having electrical fires (and the wiring on the underside of the floorboards shows evidence of knob-and-tube through modern insulated copper, just woven together--I need to just re-do the whole house), so I feel like something keeping the 220v circuit safe is a good idea. I mean, there's a modern-looking whole-house breaker box on the other side of the basement, but in the spirit of 'no electrical fire' I'm willing to add some overkill. On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Randall wrote: > Just get rid of it! It doesn't appear to actually be in the circuit > anyway; someone has wired around the fuse socket. > > A shot of that sticker might be interesting. I've seen electrical devices > rated by horsepower, but that box doesn't look even > faintly like it could handle 20kW continuous (which is about what it takes > for a 20 hp motor). > > -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 10:05:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 072012588D90 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE042587E01 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obbzf10 with SMTP id zf10so57011518obb.2 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:04:23 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=vYvCkeOctcszqsih3c2fT43kd/aP7Ac3o3gMRov71R0=; b=PprscdGZ7Y607apOw1K1mXxY1YfYbOrb30YPTNbn0Y7uRUodtxPoVe0cKTIDxgxTg1 F8wPgKwYrQr1I3GXL0Uc/tgCyQKtouXQhZtSAwrtTL7/KYADtO7q07XomCGb54tzghGX UvxvY/0FC1K2rWZmQC2q1zS9xGmJ5NHSZuUPGOMakAjTNLNc5qT92ajGjBOYba8CKapt QTmF9Bji2Hsqi4Uze2EwehxNDdLP1hK8nSfVZrZWtu5+vxmSUrOIOP8wrAyC/XIOvQtB IUV15w/oOee/ABq0kQmAKF7mS6H08NV6mLsQliCjVjUkLvQw6a0mmzFz9W7dSnytMJQy Pp8w== rd3mr6782860obc.61.1442678662985; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.91.86 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:03:43 -0700 (PDT) References: <00b701d0f2ea$65de4940$319adbc0$@com> From: Scott Hall Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:03:43 -0400 To: Pat Horne Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net There's a breaker box, Pat. I'll check and make sure the dryer circuit is actually going through it. You know...come to think of it, this might be for the washer only. This contraption is on a board hanging from a ceiling joist. On the same side of the board as this fuse box is the washing machine plug. The other side has the 220v dryer plug. I'll go figure out what's going where. But why would you fuse a washer circuit. I don't know those to pull a lot of power. The fridge and oven don't have these things in front of them, and I assume they suck far more power. Huh. On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Looks like a fused disconnect to me. I'd replace or remove it. > > Is that circuit fused/or a breaker before it gets to this box? If so, there > is no need for it. > If there is no fuse or breaker, then a fuse or breaker is needed. I'd get a > small, breaker box and put it in if that is the case. > Since this for a 220v circuit, you should not use fuses, but a double > breaker so that if one side trips the other will trip also. > What is the gauge of the wire? It looks to be too small to run a drier on. > Mist driers are on 8 ga. Wire. If this is smaller than that you should > Replace the wire back to the breaker panel with larger wire. > Also, there does not appear to be a ground wire in this box. For safety you > need a ground wire for any 220v device. > > Peace, > Pat > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Scott > Hall > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 8:48 AM > To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? > > Okay fellas, > > This: > > http://imgur.com/MGMpgzC > > Thing lives in my basement, upstream of where the washer and dryer plug in. > > I get that it seems to be some sort of primitive "fuse box", and the 'bulb > socket' is where a screw-in fuse goes. I know this because the thing has a > sticker that references fuses and I found fuses with light-bulb threads on > the back at home depot. > > Issues: > > 1) The sticker references a 20 H.P. (I assume horsepower?) load. Not amps > or > volts, "H.P.". The fuses at Home Depot are not listed by horsepower (or > H.P.). What the heck? > > 2) How's this thing...work? That black wire going out of the picture at > 4:00 is the same one you see coming back in the picture at 2:00. I bent is > back that way because it looks like the cut ends should match up. I have no > idea why it's cut, or even if that's where that wire should go. How should > I > re-wire this? > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 10:19:40 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E552588E2C for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.232]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F87F2588102 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:2188] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 31/3B-17691-AD88DF55; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:10:02 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Scott Hall'" Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:10:06 -0700 Thread-Index: AdDy9HYJnh/VpDjbRFC+0hf9bCdrbgAAJ9Ng Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Should I replace it with something? I'm a big fan of not > having electrical fires (and the wiring on the underside of > the floorboards shows evidence of knob-and-tube through > modern insulated copper, just woven together--I need to just > re-do the whole house), so I feel like something keeping the > 220v circuit safe is a good idea. I mean, there's a > modern-looking whole-house breaker box on the other side of > the basement, but in the spirit of 'no electrical fire' I'm > willing to add some overkill. IMO, just make sure the circuit is fed by an appropriate sized breaker in the main panel. For a 220v circuit (in most house wiring), you'll want a twin breaker anyway, so that both legs get disconnected if one leg gets shorted to ground or overloaded in some other fashion. As long as that is right, adding more fuses or breakers to the circuit is not going to improve safety at all. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 19 10:20:04 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE6A2588EDA for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.231]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8896D2588DAF for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 10:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:2199] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 05/1A-13490-50B8DF55; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:19:17 +0000 From: "Randall" Cc: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:19:21 -0700 Thread-Index: AdDy9SGyt5QyfgVgSKKT8lesV9YbFgAAJpiA Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Next question: what the $%^& is this thing? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > But why would you fuse a washer circuit. I don't know those > to pull a lot > of power. Some washing machines (especially older ones, newer ones not so much) draw a lot of extra power when they are starting up (especially the spin cycle). So that would have been a "slow blow" fuse, able to handle a momentary overload without blowing, dedicated to the washing machine. It may not have had a dedicated circuit back at the original main fuse panel. Lessee, must've been about 1963, my folks were renting a house that had a fuse like that just for the washing machine. It would sometimes blow when Mom tried to wash too many clothes in one load (according to my Dad). -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive