From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 11:18:33 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FF2A0A08 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic317-35.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.184.46]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9473EA09CA for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:10:03 -0600 (MDT) t=1792429771; bh=2YIV30rm/LjY/qlpeRR0V9gIfJkmPT7uMDd5AGd4PPU=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=FNb9vQlaIXcg+d882H+bXyH7B53BmCMDB0rwbVpJ/hASP3DG75YSmgOpuenpvovTVnRcz7qCytfikfGBEGlFO9I/L+rNj/tObWfgjO9xQgPQC56sGVEw5akNGQ4oWbOrweekEfTJdTm4i6KPs2TsffJIbtO6ctD9JxwIvcTgHLc= t=1792429771; bh=9RoekB3MJJOEV2ejMiPKa8+pHUUlMXwbG3zV/ob47iG=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Date:Subject:From:Subject; b=o7DW5DZIksLh8N+fIP67qqtRkWGvZe6Z3wcTVfJCGwIyZ/AJvuSUR+uZyENA27hm8xd1DSC5FLL5dNpck+AvPpWiwlRBxZBYnQvIjQjUgRUdlNQUUW88sSr2lgnv//JCz+vU9wB45IV4OMnnZFz7qQ6USM8fl1f6mqg2sKdQ1KKccRp0nneUybPYN0g4ZVGSIaw/74oqIUlxQHdxaYpVOKPsHShthhuNcp0FvTgb/0Uh0pA7LrRMWfUaG/BDtSRC6UBmE7oTl57qRK9SEniKLwKcv6+Tqbb/J87TT2QrE7ZCZHZ37w0kFGazhEELN2URi+KjFGio+EGw1vFOb7w0sg== 4Ppj772oRc1mLJK40TMV7vRjHIETdPJOr.N8kPhHBszOgbqlh8mE37Mi0ZM7GvYMMVQL_wivBCUE 1yQyunnU3Xrd1ws2.dSq2I7Lmi7_Dkdnl3sQySBJjKElatYhtrfUWPimC8IARCaeT2Y7gKICqJr3 wIq7iRJh_0_RoxRqNf7ZbOTZn0q1BFyHRKQ_d.J1xcCcOD0VJBar5NwUup43M.yW4jDGJmAqyYe4 nJKzWQp3sJjLBvt9rp50nLyxWvdgMfy70fi6dkvUaw5x8RDXXb1yLL1H2Yqs4UVJkDGbemNreZ59 1uU7AsxbP1RKsLO5Xcwk5ZzGJXdyLR1u1r_WgJhyAUWrJNr376srI4SbqVIrPNNOuqNTA4nomzwN JXpySTjybkzp622O_Wp75C5QQ7uigg6uV2DlA2FRwKXGRwWREtxe.W9c36s1pnULJTVkdZPaGweK qU3i6rHZJhsoCOM3J6mHLLAImCYyzR8z4CUFp.iKmINHbFXOpGBMfAFQYSj_V9R3mbodOQa_gX8t bHWuQO5hIjNlUHnwDMVfSjzmS9UPk0r3HFCdcWnDozF2k2PPjU9uhn_BN3M7s4n6KN9xucRe1saB qtkABqglB_zHygS2T.TG6QTS.4I8uPvqXckXa8gPrJkl1H9kONb9SOLGOVYgYpN5y.b2Ed9kxcFW qktMRGNzooOaiMZiKAD0lKZ9gNRREa6JNnxeKBL239wXKo4y7yetKQXKdkU_kU9mv2YRiYwm3_lP ow0GIpqhs.s1Dc542PjbGiKFklmJFRzuk06RCdN5wDUUOQMBmaIM949uqiomXo_BWEpE0aiRMVBE AKtyZoejVbPp_X_qDN42XJg2bpkHD6JcEFVUrgdnCeg70_JkUY.PZ8jwn1R6vCk3weQMf85MuRsD FvmNI_YoWoMNd0j3uPtWpWQgeLqXpfLO8RUaU1eelM0ZCGrbIGPTl1E2aHfaP81VZi4bXy6mlqgJ 0Jmn3g5CD8bXUJmqMQdx6vghDmXGdwaYXrDDQAXgcj46RqMhExgv6b7xUEGXiez7fbNVGh0n_eVh j5q3DsmTv2F1qc0jO5EjD0rUQn9y6qyeouOeeXguI4f.WxYQZrelSZ74d7rCXOBOcMbBYTbF4Rme zoCZO6LgZuAF2TmndiJ2mJKe2qJfYht0OhNnz73Hc9ESPZm2Wjiv2Z99PltcQXxijVRUJjQqwW3N ytHnjESdd9sfLSsPoWskhbX9PyQvEz5Y.rp3RNKcegKagvNRv0Kkm8A5Oqgtv1Tuikz_G1dcSJDY aohXhQVOJCW8U8ru2dtYARdV6H7FufqMXdSNmmQo6CDXtybuH6vhqkSw7UyW1w.ByusVtVqiomam QE8GptRPPHXtrW3SqiN90FNCxBMglAkv3XZbV_SZDtGuPdI5_e3Qy6iDkpF3dTqiMS8yz9J7lOL5 AiWkCWSXmePPYlCOh9h2XHtEtFoXcy4AkBaUM2HQNvnxMNn1QjQV9TIH51Z4wVBcUe36KZKQJFLD 13s9Rhl4fTz6LWsmnAU8X59j3RqwIDaUwTjlmEqXIGZRcHGFEnKArs2Lme4fPWxo6PiqwznQuXee 41IsczKG1iY7OGCx7vq8hyFKGc2nyPR3Aa3KZzbLoaI4R2Y3jT1KhBfWHV0T84ccDjKg98rtbIhM ldciDfvTYdW8hUPAHJn8Dq8ZEy_E77kf8_14sJgU5__7QX0Xb55S4Bw7.ZIwhme2wFlc5yAe6Jh. KW3pwo_s_Z8bciZvlmmodsaqAH4F8oS92QQ3Y1N1w_9ht_MMusggnEiEYIRpwoPlWgRwwIIS3iJG B062wNyoA30XNQJiFZlFwqdeVNEbwK72ALMvZoiK4F9R1ek8kFKoTQwf2PmXYa8bkgKfUe.Vzm5g .bxhtilLD3RixvT33D9nSEnp6as1_M9wcQHPzUz7UE2Bi7Y42fy_1BG.iRyR..L7clpLyaoS1nHz K7JHZZ38.VlbR5Zr0gq2w3sl09mVFqovRkzs3z3QBg_5rcnsagyG6k26LPKbm69M2nK5RjscPi6R eYpVESka40ABhbHQ_5k5qugK9.vwN2b9UAIrc23X10LbSTN26v04SlbnfvK0o8hah0ZE3NwuS.D5 WDzmuNhz3s.bXooQevfsRFpCGoqhTyPZB493sliyXNF.VSCjxHTlC.Ezsu5ByboVsR71vHmMTu.L QIUAwotdNDthULnU3FbKQI4.Umt4xzUMipKkLGC19fTdsAg9qixYD Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 17:09:31 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-bf1-6d6877594b-68jnb (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 29479cf4ba994b9c3cb9db3f6024884d; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 17:09:26 +0000 (UTC) From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 12:09:24 -0500 User-Agent: OEClassic/5.4.1 (Win10.19045; P; 2026-08-13) References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4058007733600194813== --------------040902010308090502060201 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi all =20 My 30 year old=20 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tub= e) the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) =20 Want to change to led... lots of options - 8'=20 led tubes are expensive too ...=20 =20 I was gifted a box of 20=20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a ballast...(heat sink) =20 option 1=20 if I use these I'd=20 have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and figure out the shunted vs non shunted type... AND find the 8' to 4' fixture conversion ki= ts=20 (adding the middle tombstones =20 option 2 8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' fluorescent) and= use=20 a ballast not great reviews when shipped... =20 option 3 =20 replace all the crap with the internet specials linkable stick lights and = hope=20 they work =20 comments on options ???? =20 questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I using m= ore electricity using the ballast=20 and heating it up... is there any savings here ??? =20 =20 please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options =20 =20 =20 --------------040902010308090502060201 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi all
 
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garag= e fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (= 16-20 bucks a tube)
 
Want to change to led... lots of options = - 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
 
I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that = work with a ballast...(heat sink)
 
option 1
if I use these I'd have to change all the tomb= stones to bi-pin and figure out the
shunted vs non shunted type...  AND find = the 8' to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones
 
option 2
8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same= price as 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast
not great reviews when shipped...
 
option 3
 
replace all the crap with the internet special= s  linkable stick lights and hope they work
 
comments on options ????
 
questions... when using the ballast type plug = and plays... aren't I using more electricity using the ballast
and heating it up... is there any savings here= ???
 
 
please educate the old dummy on best (least ex= pensive) options
 
 
 
--------------040902010308090502060201-- --===============4058007733600194813== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4058007733600194813==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 11:37:49 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A68A0A08 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:37:49 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pf1-f180.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404C8A0A71 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-pf1-f180.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-8a06b27bf9bso459352b3a.2 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 10:24:35 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1792430675; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; b=WrL1atA9CJ2+GnrGRXOdVxcz3fNbubDzbJPL6vbH1eyq8t6ruzPVf3rxjjHzMuoq04 v3e1NdDXeI4cHl66IsyQtWKE4Pnz9GggVLfm6+nSfPlTbXcMDVsFpCiA1x/9ikBXhWxG FjZcljtVyO9TNtNbZ7LQ/M3lfr3EY7B224ryvmX+nnQwfRaEodghfDeZhR4ASl1ZL6ks 5tkAhV1BaIpElq8l9p4MDU4H2semWJfYjFzSSDktqr4CD+Vw+oSitenLxtq0vc0KZpGk 6lhWZBEI7QaeUF8TPhk3hUVqkNWUBd3YTJxZizNcmDK7yt8Bbokf+QdOZeQT9vLJCXD7 jEnw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references bh=AmWO2e34DUzKQ6gvjUvuZJ7UDkSKpWCnbnZOvOMAQ3o=; fh=SX1+miIjhFhyaW5N3ilZv/mqkPXFWbO/nN68Hv2TnHE=; b=dchwomNecBrDCHIWq/oQoLmq27aOhci60lm1nzvF9CoDo3zi0HbWmF7dKeZlwgfhjG jvVkXB1uxn7II8P9A+voNCOGsGz9HyvVZl7RPir0HJS+G5U/afWIqIOQ1G+V/EGFi5iw sMDq2YwXoXTEKdewiMuSdR/Etw/Pj9yCRaXpbq8nhd+S2TF5NioBDcUp7a34qBr8H+WE 3rcc4Uch0MvLfAMmwT4PQuCjUTBMspe+OC+XXcZpHx8GtdAkw8KAmtweEHK+FujEmVXV JT8FhycsfnXVIzwk4Wy+o3JcCyNFWLXEMkWDn9fDUWwQ4NIypx5lU3QSia1KNoS88Rvh JLKQ==; darn=autox.team.net ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1792430675; x=1793035475; darn=autox.team.net; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=AmWO2e34DUzKQ6gvjUvuZJ7UDkSKpWCnbnZOvOMAQ3o=; b=Q6UhU7nqlw4lSMLISBFUdvNCw1BW1GAdmf9zaldjZxPMG2PLr2A0bibtbTdMLHz4Qv z0BLR9frWBkEwRl13sVoEaH0ndCbmsttu4r2IX3mi7xsULU3QRToCW1fNpcNxLcI8DL/ s3ZFJPs+ENYx92vsITrUZmZ0cgJgTjsO4ZGEcni2iEFHss6o/8y7ZYiqno3peg+UzV0L X6jjrKaywwnJASKMT32mLle8ihY5nGQU7Wa00iGRrG/JGe/BAntis41l4WYLE2jJTrgv 7uUMwCRRZ79a26EDl44IkzgOPzUqglBa3BzjzELW4KImavuRGP9z24caCp2QlDx2OoeQ pqFA== d=1e100.net; s=20260707; t=1792430675; x=1793035475; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=AmWO2e34DUzKQ6gvjUvuZJ7UDkSKpWCnbnZOvOMAQ3o=; b=ycjeSIvAS3+79Lpy04uhN+QaGTR1Hjj4hzXYDkFXzVP0Ao7OaFhm1TNzP4uJxz3r/5 dVKz6Cwb5ky6R8Yfshht7vBudvWf4a3Jm2tOlVn1+H1EdKACBtCXvv5lhmbNaj0LdjXP 1wuVZgT3iaKcn8j2PpNF1gsAxN5zOgzCdP2tSPXOmKNpVK31ks7u/XOdXPxLxopQbrfr tGClOOUtkxFZx+Q1OqEFT9U53B2rsB26mS0mpATb1kHBNT1XDhNld69B/hhqJzNqJ5Mu gJDyl76YrVvbZo8z1rGkFKJW7omLakRkZ0ONrk3Qfnyq7J2r9QKrZUkdXZ/mbw+TNtoN VgCA== IPylrAIcFjLKLpykNi4pLg9RgY8nSh0XPJ//FCUbNSVTevp2hIHrvimfWFWrGcY7rgmjOUpmBH0 6KNFNYggKYgIAAfXLX+vREy9FJ2dVDNo= e3t8s1pDrYV26abAA0cpYK8k5Hw5tFfFcSXf2thireVf0fAVP8zuGYheCIGA1NHMl9ALDcUeTiC 5m1htVurmqgPETUru+b/8/GccMnDkRBj+tijKQOt1f3+Hj/kx+/AM3bH06wjL/ECk3+LPb8k+8F ni2VSJb3fuw1PeDPuqXJEgKVvoxpfgOwo4gggQlcQtX5TjtzAu1OoCCY+Ovp6bZ1fX5nd/6VbFf T9vMFCWWcUMXh1H9XCUXlA0ISFyfCaFhN4iZGNfI+68d8ZRMYp5KhnbOWR2uUDtCN3n2/eET2hu mH3PvNg2s4dwJRgJSTvOxTS5hMl3Znf/dgAWlojATjtFLaNFWXAN2lX19AQKDUwvu9soLwqMtky 6vsOj8/D+JsIH3kdYCf9o7rk8aNq4n6zrpXNrWjXcTw+/066pAKa1GKM2fEl44UOztl/8P3aY= adf61e73a8af0-3e22626fd7emr5691938637.20.1792430675141; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 10:24:35 -0700 (PDT) References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> From: Eric Russell Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 13:24:08 -0400 To: john niolon Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7496196577797901884== --000000000000ad2c17065e34c91b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have changed all the 4' fluorescents in our garage to the eLcheapo (tm) LED linkable sticks. After 5+ years I've had one fail out of 12. I bought a few extras when they went on sale. Also (if it matters) no problems with them working in cold weather. (OK, cold in North Carolina may not be cold elsewhere but the fluorescents I had would often not work when it was cold.) EjR On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 1:17=E2=80=AFPM john niolon wrote= : > Hi all > > My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 > total double tube) > the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) > > Want to change to led... lots of options - 8' led tubes are expensive to= o > ... > > I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a ballast...(heat > sink) > > option 1 > if I use these I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and figure > out the > shunted vs non shunted type... AND find the 8' to 4' fixture conversion > kits (adding the middle tombstones > > option 2 > 8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' fluorescent) > and use a ballast > not great reviews when shipped... > > option 3 > > replace all the crap with the internet specials linkable stick lights an= d > hope they work > > comments on options ???? > > questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I using > more electricity using the ballast > and heating it up... is there any savings here ??? > > > please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61@gmail.com > > --000000000000ad2c17065e34c91b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I h= ave changed all the 4' fluorescents=C2=A0in our garage to the eLcheapo = (tm) LED linkable sticks. After 5+ years I've had one fail out of 12. I= bought a few extras when they went on sale. Also (if it matters) no proble= ms with them working in cold weather. (OK, cold in North Carolina may not b= e cold elsewhere but the fluorescents I had would often not work when it wa= s cold.)=C2=A0
=
EjR=C2=A0<= /div>

On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 1:17=E2=80=AFPM john nio= lon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
Hi all
=C2=A0
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin)=C2=A0g= arage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (= 16-20 bucks a tube)
=C2=A0
Want to change to led... lots of options=C2=A0= - 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
=C2=A0
I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs t= hat work with a ballast...(heat sink)
=C2=A0
option 1
if I use these I'd have to change all the = tombstones to bi-pin and figure out the
shunted vs non shunted type...=C2=A0 AND find = the 8' to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones<= /font>
=C2=A0
option 2
8' type a led single pin tubes (about the = same price as 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast
not great reviews when shipped...
=C2=A0
option 3
=C2=A0
replace all the crap with the internet special= s=C2=A0 linkable stick lights and hope they work
=C2=A0
comments on options ????
=C2=A0
questions... when using the ballast type plug = and plays... aren't I using more electricity using the ballast <= /div>
and heating it up... is there any savings here= ???
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
please educate the old dummy on best (least ex= pensive) options
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
_____________________= __________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/ejrussell61@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto= x.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61@gmail.com

--000000000000ad2c17065e34c91b-- --===============7496196577797901884== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7496196577797901884==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 11:55:49 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F89A0ABB for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hognose1.porkbun.com (unknown [35.82.102.206]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDB6A0957 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:38:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [68.239.50.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by hognose1.porkbun.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 929544767A2; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 17:38:07 +0000 (UTC) s=default; t=1792431487; bh=tKuwkoEk51N2elDjcoGI+d9GQb3fusczkf6xSAvtvTA=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=QEc9BuDGBweZylupwDO+TlWgwayLo7bIcFIAg94e5v2UokP7rIjgOjcQ1OJr9BzQj +WHUtNnQmwlOxSdCkjnYAwZkpvTE5Q3lOrWRESTMfiNl/Lbuq9tra7iy+vOWG9lAD0 BIFx4OkD4Flb/SE5PC6vUOCTixlhjm0RyDH/8C7k= From: Jim Franklin Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 13:37:56 -0400 To: john niolon References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8037492474187336582== boundary="Apple-Mail=_B79E95CE-618D-4F19-B7DF-0B8D740F4C2B" --Apple-Mail=_B79E95CE-618D-4F19-B7DF-0B8D740F4C2B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii Just put in some 4' integrated LEDs and get on with life. All other = options for non-commercial use are a kludge and a time sink. I used = these in the basement and they're working fine: = https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-4-ft-Light-LED-Strip-Shop-Light/5000858= 987 jim > On Oct 19, 2026, at 1:09 PM, john niolon wrote: >=20 > Hi all > =20 > My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly = dying...(4 total double tube) > the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) > =20 > Want to change to led... lots of options - 8' led tubes are expensive = too ... > =20 > I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a = ballast...(heat sink) > =20 > option 1 > if I use these I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and = figure out the > shunted vs non shunted type... AND find the 8' to 4' fixture = conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones > =20 > option 2 > 8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' = fluorescent) and use a ballast > not great reviews when shipped... > =20 > option 3 > =20 > replace all the crap with the internet specials linkable stick lights = and hope they work > =20 > comments on options ???? > =20 > questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I = using more electricity using the ballast > and heating it up... is there any savings here ??? > =20 > =20 > please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options > =20 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B79E95CE-618D-4F19-B7DF-0B8D740F4C2B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit charset=us-ascii Just put in some 4' integrated LEDs and get on with life. All other options for non-commercial use are a kludge and a time sink. I used these in the basement and they're working fine:


jim

On Oct 19, 2026, at 1:09 PM, john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:

Hi all
 
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube)
 
Want to change to led... lots of options  - 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
 
I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a ballast...(heat sink)
 
option 1
if I use these I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and figure out the
shunted vs non shunted type...  AND find the 8' to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones
 
option 2
8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast
not great reviews when shipped...
 
option 3
 
replace all the crap with the internet specials  linkable stick lights and hope they work
 
comments on options ????
 
questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I using more electricity using the ballast
and heating it up... is there any savings here ???
 
 
please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options
 
 
 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org


--Apple-Mail=_B79E95CE-618D-4F19-B7DF-0B8D740F4C2B-- --===============8037492474187336582== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8037492474187336582==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 12:21:12 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F97DA0B8C for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 12:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay1.stackmail.com (unknown [185.151.28.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCD2A031B for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 12:01:18 -0600 (MDT) d=swiftrecruiters.com; s=key1; h=In-Reply-To:From:References:To:Subject: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=eI9mznhs1UcbPwjW5N5y1rSRFMrt3GGp6fmcj9kGYH0=; i=@swiftrecruiters.com; t=1792432861; x=1792519261; b=dC4usAsQyiqG0r+WgvsR/gdIU35MFzNWuB5SM2hj+WYSCr2 s9M/wa4cT3t/wEidCWcucpn8RGID2bQyBGnW5B3sTQZgNpkqVC0Lrw1pE03NZqCfIR5voYpg1mkf4 yVa2+yCHIRoqOoOO/WGyPOM56MoxgONADs1qW1BvUwpKIcbAiNemk56OrIfqdo2b3pv9G6LwZ3Jue axstJRgIkd1aXulZj/yLM/Ezp1LxS0KBgc3CJVsO42UDkwFf87PMLCtuzG7OYMObAr/YoHOs4M11z hh/kz1l9+Ac5gRbfKszzzMxy+Qugvnyr3kfFfddlTVa6ps9bIkqjRbXZSRaKq1qQ==; Received: from smtp2.mail.stackcp.net ([10.4.13.36] helo=smtp2.lhr.stackcp.net) by relay1.stackmail.com with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.99.5) (envelope-from ) id 1xIrfB-00000006KKM-1UN7 for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:00:45 +0100 Received: from cm-72-240-73-107.buckeyecom.net ([72.240.73.107] helo=[10.1.1.17]) by smtp2.lhr.stackcp.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.99.5) (envelope-from ) id 1xIrfB-0000000GZNE-053F for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:00:45 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 14:00:43 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> From: John Bach Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4060261622099521181== boundary="------------0vBcX2KnUkdawcVJt9VEYLuF" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0vBcX2KnUkdawcVJt9VEYLuF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My garage has 12 4 foot 2 tube fixtures. about 5 years ago I dumped all the fluorescent bulbs and ballasts and went to led. Tombstones were fast and easy to change. Only need to do 1 end. Rewiring took 5 minutes per fixture. I used all 5000k daylight bulbs. Tremendous difference. I now have light in corners that were just shadows. I am in NW Ohio where it gets very cold. I put some in my shed and trailer with no heat and they come on immediately. I don't know for you if 4 foot or 8 foot will be cheaper but I do know I would do it again. Actually option 1 sounds like the way to go if 1 8 foot ballast will light 2 4 foot bulbs. I don't know that answer. If you need to buy more ballasts that could be bad. I used all no-ballast bulbs. Good luck. On 10/19/2026 1:09 PM, john niolon wrote: > Hi all > My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly > dying...(4 total double tube) > the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) > Want to change to led... lots of options  - 8' led tubes are expensive > too ... > I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a > ballast...(heat sink) > option 1 > if I use these I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and > figure out the > shunted vs non shunted type...  AND find the 8' to 4' fixture > conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones > option 2 > 8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' > fluorescent) and use a ballast > not great reviews when shipped... > option 3 > replace all the crap with the internet specials  linkable stick lights > and hope they work > comments on options ???? > questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I > using more electricity using the ballast > and heating it up... is there any savings here ??? > please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jbach@swiftrecruiters.com > --------------0vBcX2KnUkdawcVJt9VEYLuF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

My garage has 12 4 foot 2 tube fixtures. about 5 years ago I dumped all the fluorescent bulbs and ballasts and went to led. Tombstones were fast and easy to change. Only need to do 1 end. Rewiring took 5 minutes per fixture. I used all 5000k daylight bulbs. Tremendous difference. I now have light in corners that were just shadows. I am in NW Ohio where it gets very cold. I put some in my shed and trailer with no heat and they come on immediately. I don't know for you if 4 foot or 8 foot will be cheaper but I do know I would do it again. Actually option 1 sounds like the way to go if 1 8 foot ballast will light 2 4 foot bulbs. I don't know that answer. If you need to buy more ballasts that could be bad. I used all no-ballast bulbs. Good luck.

On 10/19/2026 1:09 PM, john niolon wrote:
Hi all
 
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube)
 
Want to change to led... lots of options  - 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
 
I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a ballast...(heat sink)
 
option 1
if I use these I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and figure out the
shunted vs non shunted type...  AND find the 8' to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones
 
option 2
8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast
not great reviews when shipped...
 
option 3
 
replace all the crap with the internet specials  linkable stick lights and hope they work
 
comments on options ????
 
questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I using more electricity using the ballast
and heating it up... is there any savings here ???
 
 
please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options
 
 
 

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
--------------0vBcX2KnUkdawcVJt9VEYLuF-- --===============4060261622099521181== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4060261622099521181==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 12:49:18 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9E2A09E2 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 12:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wr1-f48.google.com (unknown [209.85.221.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F277A0827 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 12:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-wr1-f48.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-48b001cd92bso1304661f8f.2 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:44:06 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1792435446; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; b=k+4grTgLa1w8v2nzrghC2tw/jZ7GEVBuxAiCh8CxRSN5E1GhZpDeW2j6gmlO9l+sgO M3tZDhefTlTDVCQ//uRPtmNGh29oyveCVQbCl86QTIWBNAvXGdUK5W4RIOnIWYyBp+Es IJ7q62K8rtSqTUOgUO8JMj5oKd7qUHWUpw+aJW46sReMMZ7rwx+db7JmLkIW5QZmSwmD KmFFcrarAkvzgqs04RkZLXyeQui5gtRgbJemkSjDYa7A+XbuqPKIRRgh5iwr0oUq2qmO 4d1MDjQUII2f1TZRJj4KJOyS21/E+46yOXPNAoDP0++5DgIPtsAg+/ORXpFMKJSvuvxD TrMg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references bh=CfIB11Elimb9qwENtLmiLmh8xqfC1vjLdr/BWf0n99Y=; fh=SX1+miIjhFhyaW5N3ilZv/mqkPXFWbO/nN68Hv2TnHE=; b=f4bMK/WOrZ5pu3fBNj4Bm08KXRn/h7+hLlYrN98NjMRVjeO1aQ5RyytTGSWa18/mdh yCI/HlAUIcTr5Ix9uy4J+uELnyXfebGbYzP2Tm3vz/sYm/a2B+PNGKDCOXi5GM1fwaxR HbHRNJivgEbnECA28g3MpVud+QiMFXn1Af3DRBIiM10TlpKirFqXaieTwKvEoY7n+AMO YTlzGR4wqKK3PUoNWuSeL5y+lNTW9HF2xS5gAWN5QR25Fn5TjcTlTtqZK+lfe5wETpHK wKW7ys+sokHpvnGSpDdsLu6ZFmKB2QuI5m3nnpchZBxnjyHEQZY6WbsPEKENVMDxk7I6 HIDg==; darn=autox.team.net ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none d=dougbraun.com; s=google; t=1792435446; x=1793040246; darn=autox.team.net; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=CfIB11Elimb9qwENtLmiLmh8xqfC1vjLdr/BWf0n99Y=; b=MmH6CiOgGl5YjO+uJWR5+bzeklCwfV+7XXc3MgRuf2cuHIJKm2lYvsUhnkziMqsGP6 DNGKXqVHMZVo1KG3FRHL+H6u6j1slK94V3X4Jqc2Fty4NopOQyUrW/JZ9QSLTi++EKkT M4h1Uc/bMdK5G3eel+VdR5rCYUYpiezfCJf7A= d=1e100.net; s=20260707; t=1792435446; x=1793040246; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=CfIB11Elimb9qwENtLmiLmh8xqfC1vjLdr/BWf0n99Y=; b=oUuP30ZAlcIO9WazXuWRXtTldUHM3kn2isfKmJmIiSQPnRPvi3vflCcsV/yy64TjPP MVbVR6SIDy4BuruVfLlNcjFmlXQqL1uu2IvwjxLFjD/jnIrIsg8Sg0tV0iEK60wxEX6n 2MxKntFiz+D9FBVqSk1R73H2aDxxACqpIcuSN/oq+yEXh65+hu9f1gIqcqcCk9WrX5qP UQvrzIeRISIVSyUXjpy7Ulv2TCSj3h+8x6P3N0beTlC/zvHYHMJhLV1tb+um4waQAhvw MedcLTxt9ZPQoTPAidsMsaL2+gEioQrVlGf6471kR3J58fvFDFEKoe0FxaToaKgAxTbD iQug== IzydDuE+G/8nY1AKqn5x4NLjVcLHgdJridOT6oELlRv2GFor1JE8vaHlpocKcvrpfSuXqiiLY96 0L/fzwGK6lNCd+VcsD4EPcceC3sO3j0M2Bmdt7KL3 4dRUlCgRQJ+VaGCVVMax2Y4JGIztQaSO4Ho+Uw6YPBfOfwoOu8fzL+4HBC0gG7NGk84cSdkCaWb 3yZ+rGMMUYSs9GTQXH5QJKs+o3Fjso77Zo4b+XEMqr7LiG+7CQGBJcRhR2jFJ1/x24D50m/V9ve 0v/YdCGdzqkLVyEUpa9Cn7Dt7eRDJZ4JK0bNnyJUYEYVPOsy47qhc0zrEcq8sIbEnNbeS4Ezq6O Auk3ZSkEw8XAMDSyB1PM9hT9dmlKnbNG6i7+A7nrd1Uq+FD07sNnU0f0i1TLN/k2hHDbOem8z5l xXfFcEH+BeernfgZvmCezRjJgi/8iEfU0DvxYkiMOdBgjsExV18XDrOFBOJer7h+ZqSCQUMKWoX EywJIOC+s+63wR16GobZ6P0Es6aEj3nJanlJyMf68UMu+vCww3EIKe ffacd0b85a97d-48e07bbe6a1mr18700023f8f.15.1792435445772; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:44:05 -0700 (PDT) References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> From: Doug Braun Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 14:43:53 -0400 To: john niolon Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8009442789565770665== --0000000000000746bf065e35e606 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I bought these at Lowe's and I am quite happy with them: https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Ultra-Bright-LED-Direct-Wire-32-Watt-EQ-T8-Dayl= ight-Medium-Bi-pin-g13-LED-Light-Bulb-2-Pack/5013821001 They are super bright - at least twice as bright as the old fluorescent bulbs I was using. They are "direct wire", so I had to tear out the ballasts, but that was easy to do. They also make a version that is 96" long with single-pin bases: https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Ultra-Bright-Direct-Wire-250-Watt-EQ-T8-Dayligh= t-Single-Pin-T8-LED-Light-Bulb-2-Pack/5013822219 Doug On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 1:24=E2=80=AFPM john niolon wrote= : > Hi all > > My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 > total double tube) > the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) > > Want to change to led... lots of options - 8' led tubes are expensive to= o > ... > > --0000000000000746bf065e35e606 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

They are super bright - at least twice as brigh= t as the old fluorescent bulbs I was using.=C2=A0 They are "direct wir= e", so I had to tear out the ballasts, but that was easy to do.
<= div>

Doug

On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 1:24= =E2=80=AFPM john niolon <jniolon@att.= net> wrote:
Hi all
=C2=A0
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin)=C2=A0g= arage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (= 16-20 bucks a tube)
=C2=A0
Want to change to led... lots of options=C2=A0= - 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
=C2=A0
--0000000000000746bf065e35e606-- --===============8009442789565770665== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8009442789565770665==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 13:08:05 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075B3A0B8F for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 13:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B84AA060A for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 12:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oa1-f45.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-486f013db83so768528fac.0 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:47:31 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1792435650; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; b=oAe7yX0r32MkfLOGNwclByHJlh2oD8JQyPU73X3njo1XUkmHS0W9QWNPr3eh9GeZHb ObXNoJnG+6wqvlY4ivuQtrjEPVqfD6lVLG/TPIl1WS6PvH/UjZ7UnnSVHxz+D9n0AzeT UyUgHv/EnrBStOL0m4dnnonk/UXZF2jvbtndcxM2cqN6GsUkVd0iSXvwwETKyqzPlenr kXuGMxfSCKJuWso2p2QlNgKVY9SNCux5gfaJuQ0iU3WJ4cv+oIp3TZLVCvv0rysWgkD4 401YRf+1aNEioIwzmJ5odcnEAcx5YL27lTOFm/CtEGFfhYtMiW3IM9V3ySBn41QQkPpX CJ9w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references bh=lE9rPfOI821KU5T+XBR/g4ePaj/jzQzpQa/ddhX7P6Q=; fh=k5HJNSV0jBXqjCzb/PtAziW7tUpazeLOCXv6Am6CEG4=; b=lLH9gAUpl0yDmCgq88upZBcg3mosicls2rdEIww6IV84+6vLg9AVgxJbg0mkYcKWJf +qgibi2+9jCfhl953wVBi6A49I39HiYAEpkCODMrIchgfRxHSPz9pnz3SYGqqoOx9/z8 uEraHO6S1q4HZsoM0iemV8lhdvsOkWUNyQG9KYC8PmpO4OQTL/i31XMw+lqpDkrkNFyz tPLyWhN4imuUMe3DEfAjbLu+UIo9DeHCVXT5xmgKmctFSVyqzJfHUq2vpbrnc2WveNN2 6srJQAVj8hZJozvJx6L5kTqkIpL7Lzje3VS30Oi46QvAhTPYkaTTKKvVRpi7NWxywHuD 2zMQ==; darn=autox.team.net ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1792435650; x=1793040450; darn=autox.team.net; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=lE9rPfOI821KU5T+XBR/g4ePaj/jzQzpQa/ddhX7P6Q=; b=jfbLcdtf0Kwb7tX5Zr6rG4rQbKTSrHiV3rCXEutNf/W7cNfES6yrAaRi5mX9FbPhIR bQ9uUL8XRE25nnh6uPGfY701N6gZGzbKkDveZbPYZuO5qfCTUnaJuqrom0MX4fFdvZ5T 8/RWWbp13Y5bEeRGHctsiJ9Vq1J1aeU4fCod2niPgI5+WL/tu8FfJsH4rL4JQ35Hnl7N m8G9QKhRnSuwl2wh/Nne7/N0toTzCVb5MD6XrX1uqswFWMdspd/socJcc3FD7QSklxZU h8qBbz0WazfA6p3qgXC/HZLVpJEkEAIF24jkLWUHYck+nIoUcDSbGgNDLx3TLoo0LNjG S4aQ== d=1e100.net; s=20260707; t=1792435650; x=1793040450; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=lE9rPfOI821KU5T+XBR/g4ePaj/jzQzpQa/ddhX7P6Q=; b=KJ2WsdtY671QE0tZzKqnjOcyjAceWTMiANEC4C5j/iMPoaqBnhZMMIOBf7UN+8ElYP zqWl41SKBwO2+VNrw7AlNq6LO7nGK5R2Yco3YFH/oHHP4ezTO/rLgEr9oHlGKPA3PVeO 2jYmcaBFLwzSJrbwj4d6e3+Ehl86nZNVrCy+HF9FynJm/nRWLHE+/1LbpgdC7+lL3m4H alKM3c8LSx7yXwzbglDNYp4u99bGZ7MCVdRxaSvl31MdxG2gKWZAYKWbtgHARipsTv99 OZGTnsSGAxInDB9VPUMTsrVw/vHbxFrwmfINhG1+e0rR9ECKBBVWTxxCE+3nStKHW+yS vJ0g== AKwUvBzTYuekQm/Uc8peY1JyhCgyMvY9jxF49nOKS0oT2tU8m9iXbsnHyrv47xTfObOqixmoHDXw9VGqMns=@autox.team.net vhvq0bYpimztRr7qkc5rE9xKupSP7elnKfAv//+5cSVsFkL/nOuvNJpe8kfm67k6BrAeYwgRepD USVXQ0eCIgsbz1R7DHjv1fPlzIDN2Abc= fjpmYwGb+3URzYk/lw969uxpL8a9q+mfA9g7t2tnVei4V5Gkwo54NCJOLCXzorwO0icPTIot8B4 dWDePdzRMJQEh0IY+s4BlRQZB1P/98FG8FN7KQ8X/aY5VHEzGtBfhL4ta6bBaviom3C+TBGDdM3 XbiRLKNrIvW3pjxUludSJ1PWzIrr5zlTLB6KJ29n1X7QF5g5QCNoy783OCbKucXTl9bnIYuXTu4 +W9Dkt/TqtC/QUKQgyc4KWNVLvFQQU/IMOpSxz5XA5I215yv+8If1f81K6i4p/WMZpAEDDOWLbc YtLoNOKQ3ya9EhKE= 586e51a60fabf-4a757b0f8a5mr6985139fac.45.1792435650315; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:47:30 -0700 (PDT) References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> <97147E8C-F24F-4C23-9CD4-2CD896F69244@groupwbench.org> From: Douglas Shook Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:47:17 -0700 To: Jim Franklin Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4497182968255836267== --0000000000003847d5065e35f2c2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I replaced my 8' single pin fluorescents with these non-ballast single pin LEDs about four years ago, no problems, terrific light, it was a very good decision for me: JESLED T8/T10/T12 8FT LED Tube Light Bulbs, 50W 6000LM, 5000K Daylight White, 8 Foot Single Pin FA8 LED Fluorescent Replacement for Shops Garage Light Fixtures, ETL Listed, Remove Ballast (4-Pack) - Amazon.com On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 10:59=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin wrote: > Just put in some 4' integrated LEDs and get on with life. All other > options for non-commercial use are a kludge and a time sink. I used these > in the basement and they're working fine: > > > https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-4-ft-Light-LED-Strip-Shop-Light/500085= 8987 > > jim > > On Oct 19, 2026, at 1:09 PM, john niolon wrote: > > Hi all > > My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 > total double tube) > the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) > > Want to change to led... lots of options - 8' led tubes are expensive to= o > ... > > I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a ballast...(heat > sink) > > option 1 > if I use these I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and figure > out the > shunted vs non shunted type... AND find the 8' to 4' fixture conversion > kits (adding the middle tombstones > > option 2 > 8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' fluorescent) > and use a ballast > not great reviews when shipped... > > option 3 > > replace all the crap with the internet specials linkable stick lights an= d > hope they work > > comments on options ???? > > questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I using > more electricity using the ballast > and heating it up... is there any savings here ??? > > > please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com > > --0000000000003847d5065e35f2c2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I r= eplaced my 8' single=C2=A0pin fluorescents with these non-ballast singl= e pin LEDs about four years ago, no problems, terrific light, it was a very= good decision for me:
JESLED T8/T10/T12 8FT LED Tube Lig= ht Bulbs, 50W 6000LM, 5000K Daylight White, 8 Foot Single Pin FA8 LED Fluor= escent Replacement for Shops Garage Light Fixtures, ETL Listed, Remove Ball= ast (4-Pack) - Amazon.com

On Mon, Oct 19, 20= 26 at 10:59=E2=80=AFAM Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org> wrote:
Just put in some 4' integrated LEDs a= nd get on with life. All other options for non-commercial use are a kludge = and a time sink. I used these in the basement and they're working fine:=


jim

On Oct 19, 2026, at 1:09 PM, john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:

Hi all
=C2=A0
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin)=C2=A0g= arage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (= 16-20 bucks a tube)
=C2=A0
Want to change to led... lots of options=C2=A0= - 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
=C2=A0
I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs t= hat work with a ballast...(heat sink)
=C2=A0
option 1
if I use these I'd have to change all the = tombstones to bi-pin and figure out the
shunted vs non shunted type...=C2=A0 AND find = the 8' to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones<= /font>
=C2=A0
option 2
8' type a led single pin tubes (about the = same price as 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast
not great reviews when shipped...
=C2=A0
option 3
=C2=A0
replace all the crap with the internet special= s=C2=A0 linkable stick lights and hope they work
=C2=A0
comments on options ????
=C2=A0
questions... when using the ballast type plug = and plays... aren't I using more electricity using the ballast <= /div>
and heating it up... is there any savings here= ???
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
please educate the old dummy on best (least ex= pensive) options
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
_____________________= __________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.= html
Suggested annual donation =C2=A0$12.96
Archive: http://www.team.n= et/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jam= esf@groupwbench.org


___= ____________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/dirtbeard@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@gmail.com

--0000000000003847d5065e35f2c2-- --===============4497182968255836267== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4497182968255836267==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 13:46:04 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D31CA0A6F for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 13:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BL2PR02CU003.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [52.103.1.10]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C639CA06A8 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 13:42:10 -0600 (MDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=LN0t7I7lGRJ8ToP1SBDhEFhM9Wan6jakLEvdfV+bw60JXZ/2zpqmGo9U2Yp4u6hKAvSkuZlq5QmK2+x7TCMTgqsyi8NMpG2QiU0Gxj3jGbFzGlhYZ0gEcYVDajDpcsG78x1rgrNNumMzJccDhvK5IMVBtgboV1kRJ9vFmIokjOZ3XZ0M3ld0kpEODT04pZtFV+y5mY6WGaehSD/GY4fVczgPkQM6LigNrS2PHSdZoS5/DF3/5EB00qE9GULiFIFFUqBJCXNlWfbD7JvrFFxkCiixpou3IM0tp7nKWHAq3roU0PLDXeQVt4JRpGEg5K2R2CLnXobTXpyICDp2WTZQvA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=l8XCv5h9KPrDyw2bG7GaJ1wgwNnLrbMQdoA6ovNZVY4=; b=kmPcW7OU4K3ZnQWXf2XBL3Max2UGYS6Fl+eNxoCb9HjkbjCRzZ6qcJksd/8GH4+xv888B6Mee3KRDtVrCHaT774pOEkgcIIavA0HfSa+HIYosAzR2WRgUR8Ohf59bRCsDYOJv1AVpVd8PtZqJLnIKDdN9uywohCopLL51CVe7IqOnmIpOQHVFRH7OIHl9Pe08I9Zg5TyRFHzjPNo52OYsBAOcTULeyTpAHCoxtK7Y54l/P0MMPfMJd4qSUT4QzdMw1k52aa1jZyM4xcDO7kmdMm5oR4Lo5p3b/LbJEWzv8uzwwND1MbH+EeVg1bcSjb0/cyN3sUSUdV/MW7367kByQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=l8XCv5h9KPrDyw2bG7GaJ1wgwNnLrbMQdoA6ovNZVY4=; b=AOkyBOPt47qqnAhjkbs0zgdaVCCOm6vHpGSuF7KCluVSiY4Bc+E178pThOEi8YRNlhnBA4HDIOWsyuuWKniSVQukYazKdknRJWCRSzE4uPhanydrbmWgVbciL6OWrBKcvDPia7kc9Dybx/E+Mxrau2NoPvwEW15h8jfTFUn29Vl0hbQyds+D5SLoxbCWbdJFR9tWBqD/WmDKWrOGFevE2vvZwOuOKfaTFTRYNaUJx2pQsdS1HoLdJpvqiVkODJsljZjCv99tIIArFf0nWJoa9kniMJUh8Sg9fqPPlqdgMVCw2MbbE+ShzOshApIe0QOfiUmOcAQPKs0fTPMhbqOgFg== Received: from SA1PR84MB3895.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:806:3ee::7) by PH7PR84MB2077.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:510:154::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.522.19; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:41:35 +0000 Received: from SA1PR84MB3895.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::4217:20e7:6af2:d6ce]) by SA1PR84MB3895.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::4217:20e7:6af2:d6ce%6]) with mapi id 15.21.0522.017; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:41:35 +0000 From: Brian and Wendy Warrick To: Doug Braun , john niolon Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Thread-Index: AQHdX+59UJjuHujWj0ysr8CtJ37VercFM7aAgAAPY7A= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:41:35 +0000 References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US msip_labels: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA1PR84MB3895:EE_|PH7PR84MB2077:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d8ed3d12-57bc-41de-e99a-08df2e18fc38 x-ms-exchange-slblob-mailprops: quCBMN2EvO9RNZKwDrK2ljNngOCRvvNQKRq1WdQwT4/wLqXABj8Q1J//VYlwEHOxq2tgXmyrmuwZXBI+y5NUZm9Va4UuR1s5RBzgABaDVpahVT0cSqfKls56Wp0As9PWu9URarEfneLwT1Pw8iloLUWN+4SQQoxa8Iobo04Yhom4HUSPygXJ3DCJCna1p40qFb9mpnhkPguf4FtX7BrYUHeyEfLOXpPHbXGjCt3a9YziGbUI9oeH6x4Y9RCj3JqmM5bvkwPMS4JJISCl/1oOAO93gJ8diMR93+O2JbY5eXL0325Dn93xru+kjGGrviL4WjMSA/E1JjI/jQqA+bJxUMXBjgVqAPg4CNHUBHOdkYP8e2eMpuMXFN8W7dNp6KowzUKGLVURoSpjWs0acfpoo9O01RofkZdrRR7tyrErBdvX6SiC6CHojp0NrrkpLD7pgNOyVv/xyql9ocjv/lQFIYIhdtv+W/as0H8ZDBzJsd/W5jA2sv5f3AVFqQ72xa8svf5p4bfisF9/SGvuocFq7gZD31ViCiC0NL5yrWMK3nr2NWm7PgDQBv40UUUoJIsmBG68HVLmyxxEDzE4GyAJPXSf8w+78mOzh7ogeXQHH8xXDzDGzEHG+7boFZzwJ/gU6o4wIj2fzvdoy8bcD3uYW4j+F+a8KuZ+Vlc9aPGPi3y2tzyTWS2II6mwG/TLtjdhHUqpdJR44P0q5EC39r8mrA== x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; ARA:14566002|15080799012|31061999003|19110799012|8062599012|8060799015|15030799006|12121999013|10092599007|9400799043|24021099003|25010399006|4140399003|3412199025|4302099013|440099028|102099032|40105399003|52005399003|1602099012|10035399007; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: =?utf-8?B?N25aK21PNnJyVm42ZHhmYldHRDVGTHN0SEpVQTdNK1ZCYTkyeEVMTVc1YXds?= =?utf-8?B?YTY3TTd1bFJDN2I4QVY1YnA3NVJUMjBhblhRU2hBVTNVekhxWitBbnpKNW43?= =?utf-8?B?Z0ZLVUJkYStuNGRZMDJRd01zMVhmNW9oZk1qNXcvRjV3SjFLWEx4TmlDNkRz?= =?utf-8?B?ZnRRYndxSk9YdmhJdXNEUGxickVDblhCSUhmelJydUVYWGxxZXdjR0dLMVdL?= =?utf-8?B?VTEvZExpWTcrRFF3MXlCZTJya09NbzY4ejZvYVkwY2Qwb0VMaEJxZUtaZm80?= =?utf-8?B?L2dKd2JMRXIycldNWmJIOEhCSkpCWkIyVFh0VnpNNjFQbk1uaGJqNTYwNHNO?= =?utf-8?B?elJUc3FYSzhjWEdUQTZFRXk5a0FzbTdsbXpYT0x0enlvcVgyM1Q0VGxWYjht?= =?utf-8?B?ZDVxenpzcnJGQ1VpZnRGeDFxU1V3Y2ZxVkNPL2lmaEIrMlVqclZDQmxCMlIr?= =?utf-8?B?eS9QTmdRNGlTc2hhLzlSQi9DekxjYjRRczhTVi9RWG1hNXBkaEFLcWt2OXBI?= =?utf-8?B?aTBXTGJqeVRmcmNQajBTQmo4cUV6dWljYnJWRTl5ZG9JQTVoc0NYckltTURT?= =?utf-8?B?Sm9RMGwrMzVPZUdrSXlybEVzZW14bE9QMTNWcUJtMlV3K3pVZDBrOGc1TTBX?= =?utf-8?B?TXo5VmxrdTR4NWF1RVUvNm9xcGttaHlZYi96TDU4eVFreEw3Vi9TNWF6Zjlt?= =?utf-8?B?bmk4UXJVcjg3azZhQUJ3bEdNdDJGbkJoR1ljZzUreStsMzFDRlFGcW1wTnlu?= =?utf-8?B?Z3hpVWU0anpySy9BaUZNTitSWklwcU5hK25wUTNKNVdYZ0RsUEZHYXdoUllN?= =?utf-8?B?Y211dmJEZ0phR3FFOVJHbmZXSm9RK0p5aFVQK3FhS1FFMmM3WnFwQ2hhUXRZ?= =?utf-8?B?dWNhSENJTlRTdi9OMkdya21vTlVsNFRXa3Z3czJKdC9hcDk4RDI5M3lpTWxM?= =?utf-8?B?ZXdLV3lsU1cyNEZiOEZ3UXFqVmtCS0dZU1FUZ3JKdmpubCs2S2M1Y3l1VXpT?= =?utf-8?B?bkExN0hNU2IxbU0xL3RjRzVBeW5LQnVRNHJzcThVRVBFZXErWnhaN3BMZ1pX?= =?utf-8?B?S1VqSW12UTRjT3ZVaHY3YjNpRjB5VUsrNll0Ym1leklDWnlQSG1TTmdnT1po?= =?utf-8?B?MWlTeldLVUxjQ3pJOXRYV1A4K3Q1eVNuL0pIWGZvWlROZEhzNEVGb3dxMG5O?= =?utf-8?B?dGpDRzhZNGpva3dJRmZ3Y3QraWprR25KVWtvWXp4OWZLVlRNeHVzVFZlNXdU?= =?utf-8?B?UStOb1I0NUs5ZHlpY3BJOHRGMytncXF2ajFLaS9aWjUvdUdVN0VZMUMvWUpT?= =?utf-8?B?eGhnV210MitxOFBEd09kY3hoRlpiTndmSXBiRUZNbEQ2L2U5VU9qRk5ZUFQ2?= =?utf-8?B?S2FhYys3M0g2TS9RZTNQd0RDZTVQZjZpdVVsWkdxc09SU20zRExPYVlOMlFT?= =?utf-8?B?U0w1a0pJd1d1Qk16WmxabFB4WTRDMS9lbWZmWHNmRm5hem0xQW13R1RZdkxE?= =?utf-8?Q?W9B4CY=3D?= x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?dEhOT1lKdmsyWFpGVU5xdkpYMzNHK1FsS0FOam83ZDV3eGUzczhqc0luQUMz?= =?utf-8?B?M29sU3pCMHRwTy9OY1lUQzN2a29Obm91a2dITzZtaUNlTE5hMTVIR2NVbXlU?= =?utf-8?B?eDZ5cWtlWDEyWkp5TzFkZEwyR0xPUjVwS2VPcTdvTC9QdEYvazNrOVhjWVMz?= =?utf-8?B?Q2hWWjFodHdQcDl1emV0TnlFMTA2RFhCUkVTQ0phVHFwcE9oQWp6WGhsQkh0?= =?utf-8?B?cXVlL2pOcjl6bkxkR2JDNEVnWnphRVlScUhVMGFpYXhXdVJqR1FPcFdLSmdn?= =?utf-8?B?VDE1eTQxQWNpclQvb1YxbGpzSlNISlpBNThqZjgzcDYzcEo3blc2Smwramg4?= =?utf-8?B?d2RONTRzQ3Q2MEcxNnpId1VCUXRUY1JUai9HL0hLZDNvZSsyMEJGaFgrV0Js?= =?utf-8?B?VERlMkNLRU0wN3o2QkE1TXFMdmNnMTRHOWszMDBPb3hpNEd1ZnRZUEtYY3h0?= =?utf-8?B?RTIzdWdFc0FKZXEzaDVIWUdhYXFsSmZzLzJXTnUrSWFLTWI5anlzQ2tuRXhh?= =?utf-8?B?aUpPZmhHRHR6RHY1S1BvM3Mra3ZUT25COFBaK1RwbkIrVHNmT3Q1T3M0cCt5?= =?utf-8?B?TzlOalBvNVdzb2JtOGxvNkVZWG5YNElYUkZSMkxicFZGVHcvUzRNbWlRTWNk?= =?utf-8?B?ZnpyekFxV08zU0tMbUVhalR1eU1IczNPOHBSekR3MnFPWGd1c0RzWklvRmFQ?= =?utf-8?B?QmM1L3BoMnU1dkNjRUsyNitrcndkdExBRXhUSXhMNm5FT2pwbzdKc2cyQTZs?= =?utf-8?B?Y1dVUUtIMVhQOEZvVTNWR24zMFFhWUhmZjlPYzJVcUpLTENjRkJlUjZDUHBk?= =?utf-8?B?eVU1VkJRNUxIMlpaTGVjMkxjdVo5K1ZWUVdNSWVGcVp2NGg1amU2QnphNlhQ?= =?utf-8?B?RzVOTjkrTGFseGVpNWR2WktSYVM1dTVpMWhNeUVxMGtZZ01zMzJWdi9IVXF6?= =?utf-8?B?NEFRS3pObVk0YmpMMDVBWnFYWjh3MnU0Nm9QTVVuZEJEYXlhbXJoOVdoNitJ?= =?utf-8?B?QU1XOS9VLzBYOGc3OUdweU92QlZKNkJ2OFhZUlNxVmZJa2pNcXgxa1UrSHpK?= =?utf-8?B?Z21RNU9DZjQza1NTaEt4YThlMTNaQWt4UGUyZCtBcUhscTFWOU0rQ0hlNkcr?= =?utf-8?B?UE82QXVMUnZyV09WdnNUQVdvWEdkekQwWWNDOTBiSFZrWHVBYXJYS3NkUnQ1?= =?utf-8?B?QWMxVkpqQ2hXWVFHandtVys1WHN3SHV2RXBNMHowcGwvSUV5VU9FMHFPdyt2?= =?utf-8?B?NlVuL2hYOWJVNEZKSmIrdlcrTGpoVFRscHl3M0NSTDUvT0dDRCtJTXNMV2V2?= =?utf-8?B?SjRwYXRLSlg0TnQrWUt2ZjVpWHgyK2ZjTnpibStsb1daL0xKUEN5UjhBd29k?= =?utf-8?B?LzlCaFVXbFJVNTZISnpWYmIrelJRTGFwRUh6N1ZCU003L092T1ZUYVIwRUdQ?= =?utf-8?B?TFN2dW5UbFlENWlTcXdlZTVRVUJ2bUZBRjgxT2d3QVA4dHFLQzRlR2NTaGFE?= =?utf-8?B?VG9NV0hmODViZFB3dlVHRFNOLzMva1c0cTVaVnA0VE1BM0ttS1h5YXdKTGZw?= =?utf-8?B?NVluMDlZU2FoeUdXV0hkQTRoNExMZWp2ZTg1aUM0NTE3eWwrZXVEYzl3cUxZ?= =?utf-8?B?UG1SYjVLZDVXdWhGTmxzd3h2SS9DdDAzSGpLenIzSlBNSStPc0FTK05uTzUr?= =?utf-8?B?UlRIelB0L1lPSVBoMHIvb2xVWlE2RThBRzgxbXoyZjl2d3pKMXJwM0dJNm5x?= =?utf-8?B?eEtRSFV2aFRJQmtpT3E2aWZjV2JpSmFPQVlDdnRqVFdjWS9oRDRLNnZQdXNv?= =?utf-8?Q?PdGGMcMJab8H2J/MA63nBUDsORkVP62PmNsfc=3D?= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8981449596717491419== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_SA1PR84MB3895F72A0CE451D68347D62FBB982SA1PR84MB3895NAMP_" --_000_SA1PR84MB3895F72A0CE451D68347D62FBB982SA1PR84MB3895NAMP_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhpcyBpcyB3aGF0IEkgZGlkIGFzIHdlbGwuIEkgaGFkIHRoZSA4IGZ0IGZpeHR1cmVzIHdpdGgg YnVpbHQgaW4gcmVmbGVjdG9ycywgc28gSSB1c2VkIHRoZSA4IGZvb3Qgc2luZ2xlIHBpbiB3L28g YmFsbGFzdCBjb252ZXJzaW9uIHR1YmVzLiBFYXN5IHRvIHJlbW92ZSB0aGUgYmFsbGFzdCBhbmQg aXQgaGFzIHJlY3ljbGUgdmFsdWUgdG9vISBBYm91dCB0aGUgc2FtZSBjb3N0IGFzIGEgbmV3IDgg Zm9vdCBMRUQgZml4dHVyZS4gSSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gZG9pbmcgbWluZSBhcyB0aGUgYmFsbGFzdCBk aWUsIGJ1dCBJIHdpbGwgc29vbiBydW4gb3V0IG9mIGZsdW9yZXNjZW50IHR1YmVzIGFuZCB3aWxs IGNvbnZlcnQgdGhlIHJlc3QgYXMgSSBydW4gb3V0IG9mIHR1YmVzLg0KDQpCcmlhbg0KDQpfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KRnJvbTogU2hvcC10YWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGst Ym91bmNlc0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldD4gb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIERvdWcgQnJhdW4gPGRvdWdAZG91 Z2JyYXVuLmNvbT4NClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgT2N0b2JlciAxOSwgMjAyNiAxMjo0MyBQTQ0KVG86 IGpvaG4gbmlvbG9uIDxqbmlvbG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ+DQpDYzogc2hvcC10YWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGtA YXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW1Nob3AtdGFsa10gZmxvdXJlc2NlbnQgdG8g bGVkIGNoYW5nZW92ZXINCg0KDQpJIGJvdWdodCB0aGVzZSBhdCBMb3dlJ3MgYW5kIEkgYW0gcXVp dGUgaGFwcHkgd2l0aCB0aGVtOiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5sb3dlcy5jb20vcGQvR0UtVWx0cmEtQnJp Z2h0LUxFRC1EaXJlY3QtV2lyZS0zMi1XYXR0LUVRLVQ4LURheWxpZ2h0LU1lZGl1bS1CaS1waW4t ZzEzLUxFRC1MaWdodC1CdWxiLTItUGFjay81MDEzODIxMDAxDQpUaGV5IGFyZSBzdXBlciBicmln aHQgLSBhdCBsZWFzdCB0d2ljZSBhcyBicmlnaHQgYXMgdGhlIG9sZCBmbHVvcmVzY2VudCBidWxi cyBJIHdhcyB1c2luZy4gIFRoZXkgYXJlICJkaXJlY3Qgd2lyZSIsIHNvIEkgaGFkIHRvIHRlYXIg b3V0IHRoZSBiYWxsYXN0cywgYnV0IHRoYXQgd2FzIGVhc3kgdG8gZG8uDQoNClRoZXkgYWxzbyBt YWtlIGEgdmVyc2lvbiB0aGF0IGlzIDk2IiBsb25nIHdpdGggc2luZ2xlLXBpbiBiYXNlczogaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cubG93ZXMuY29tL3BkL0dFLVVsdHJhLUJyaWdodC1EaXJlY3QtV2lyZS0yNTAtV2F0 dC1FUS1UOC1EYXlsaWdodC1TaW5nbGUtUGluLVQ4LUxFRC1MaWdodC1CdWxiLTItUGFjay81MDEz ODIyMjE5DQoNCkRvdWcNCg0KT24gTW9uLCBPY3QgMTksIDIwMjYgYXQgMToyNOKAr1BNIGpvaG4g bmlvbG9uIDxqbmlvbG9uQGF0dC5uZXQ8bWFpbHRvOmpuaW9sb25AYXR0Lm5ldD4+IHdyb3RlOg0K SGkgYWxsDQoNCk15IDMwIHllYXIgb2xkIDgnIHQtMTIgKHNpbmdsZSBwaW4pIGdhcmFnZSBmaXh0 dXJlcyBhcmUgc2xvd2x5IGR5aW5nLi4uKDQgdG90YWwgZG91YmxlIHR1YmUpDQp0aGUgb2xkIHQt MTJzIGFyZSBoYXJkIHRvIGZpbmQgYW5kIGV4cGVuc2l2ZSAoMTYtMjAgYnVja3MgYSB0dWJlKQ0K DQpXYW50IHRvIGNoYW5nZSB0byBsZWQuLi4gbG90cyBvZiBvcHRpb25zICAtIDgnIGxlZCB0dWJl cyBhcmUgZXhwZW5zaXZlIHRvbyAuLi4NCg0K --_000_SA1PR84MB3895F72A0CE451D68347D62FBB982SA1PR84MB3895NAMP_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0i dGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjxzdHlsZSB0eXBlPSJ0ZXh0L2NzcyIgc3R5bGU9 ImRpc3BsYXk6bm9uZTsiPiBQIHttYXJnaW4tdG9wOjA7bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowO30gPC9zdHls ZT4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IGRpcj0ibHRyIj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9ImVsZW1lbnRUb1Byb29m IiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IENhbGlicmksIEhlbHZldGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsgZm9u dC1zaXplOiAxMnB0OyBjb2xvcjogcmdiKDAsIDAsIDApOyI+DQpUaGlzIGlzIHdoYXQgSSBkaWQg YXMgd2VsbC4gSSBoYWQgdGhlIDggZnQgZml4dHVyZXMgd2l0aCBidWlsdCBpbiByZWZsZWN0b3Jz LCBzbyBJIHVzZWQgdGhlIDggZm9vdCBzaW5nbGUgcGluIHcvbyBiYWxsYXN0IGNvbnZlcnNpb24g dHViZXMuIEVhc3kgdG8gcmVtb3ZlIHRoZSBiYWxsYXN0IGFuZCBpdCBoYXMgcmVjeWNsZSB2YWx1 ZSB0b28hIEFib3V0IHRoZSBzYW1lIGNvc3QgYXMgYSBuZXcgOCBmb290IExFRCBmaXh0dXJlLiBJ IGhhdmUgYmVlbg0KIGRvaW5nIG1pbmUgYXMgdGhlIGJhbGxhc3QgZGllLCBidXQgSSB3aWxsIHNv b24gcnVuIG91dCBvZiBmbHVvcmVzY2VudCB0dWJlcyBhbmQgd2lsbCBjb252ZXJ0IHRoZSByZXN0 IGFzIEkgcnVuIG91dCBvZiB0dWJlcy48L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9ImVsZW1lbnRUb1Byb29m IiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IENhbGlicmksIEhlbHZldGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsgZm9u dC1zaXplOiAxMnB0OyBjb2xvcjogcmdiKDAsIDAsIDApOyI+DQo8YnI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYg Y2xhc3M9ImVsZW1lbnRUb1Byb29mIiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IENhbGlicmksIEhlbHZl dGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsgZm9udC1zaXplOiAxMnB0OyBjb2xvcjogcmdiKDAsIDAsIDApOyI+ DQpCcmlhbjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBpZD0iYXBwZW5kb25zZW5kIj48L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9 ImZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiBDYWxpYnJpLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7IGZvbnQtc2l6ZTog MTJwdDsgY29sb3I6IHJnYigwLCAwLCAwKTsiPg0KPGJyPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8aHIgc3R5bGU9ImRp c3BsYXk6IGlubGluZS1ibG9jazsgd2lkdGg6IDk4JTsiPg0KPGRpdiBpZD0iZGl2UnBseUZ3ZE1z ZyI+DQo8ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJkaXJlY3Rpb246IGx0cjsgZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IENhbGlicmksIHNh bnMtc2VyaWY7IGZvbnQtc2l6ZTogMTFwdDsgY29sb3I6IHJnYigwLCAwLCAwKTsiPg0KPGI+RnJv bTo8L2I+IFNob3AtdGFsayAmbHQ7c2hvcC10YWxrLWJvdW5jZXNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQmZ3Q7 IG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBEb3VnIEJyYXVuICZsdDtkb3VnQGRvdWdicmF1bi5jb20mZ3Q7PGJyPg0K PGI+U2VudDo8L2I+IE1vbmRheSwgT2N0b2JlciAxOSwgMjAyNiAxMjo0MyBQTTxicj4NCjxiPlRv OjwvYj4gam9obiBuaW9sb24gJmx0O2puaW9sb25AYXR0Lm5ldCZndDs8YnI+DQo8Yj5DYzo8L2I+ IHNob3AtdGFsayAmbHQ7c2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Jmd0Ozxicj4NCjxiPlN1Ympl Y3Q6PC9iPiBSZTogW1Nob3AtdGFsa10gZmxvdXJlc2NlbnQgdG8gbGVkIGNoYW5nZW92ZXI8L2Rp dj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImRpcmVjdGlvbjogbHRyOyI+Jm5ic3A7PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxk aXYgc3R5bGU9ImRpcmVjdGlvbjogbHRyOyI+PGJyPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJkaXJl Y3Rpb246IGx0cjsiPkkgYm91Z2h0IHRoZXNlIGF0IExvd2UncyBhbmQgSSBhbSBxdWl0ZSBoYXBw eSB3aXRoIHRoZW06DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL3d3dy5sb3dlcy5jb20vcGQvR0UtVWx0cmEt QnJpZ2h0LUxFRC1EaXJlY3QtV2lyZS0zMi1XYXR0LUVRLVQ4LURheWxpZ2h0LU1lZGl1bS1CaS1w aW4tZzEzLUxFRC1MaWdodC1CdWxiLTItUGFjay81MDEzODIxMDAxIiBpZD0iT1dBY2EwNDlkMWUt MjViMS1lMWRkLTM1YzItODQ5YTljNjJkYWI2IiBjbGFzcz0iT1dBQXV0b0xpbmsiIGRhdGEtYXV0 aD0iTm90QXBwbGljYWJsZSI+DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5sb3dlcy5jb20vcGQvR0UtVWx0cmEtQnJp Z2h0LUxFRC1EaXJlY3QtV2lyZS0zMi1XYXR0LUVRLVQ4LURheWxpZ2h0LU1lZGl1bS1CaS1waW4t ZzEzLUxFRC1MaWdodC1CdWxiLTItUGFjay81MDEzODIxMDAxPC9hPjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHls ZT0iZGlyZWN0aW9uOiBsdHI7Ij5UaGV5IGFyZSBzdXBlciBicmlnaHQgLSBhdCBsZWFzdCB0d2lj ZSBhcyBicmlnaHQgYXMgdGhlIG9sZCBmbHVvcmVzY2VudCBidWxicyBJIHdhcyB1c2luZy4mbmJz cDsgVGhleSBhcmUgJnF1b3Q7ZGlyZWN0IHdpcmUmcXVvdDssIHNvIEkgaGFkIHRvIHRlYXIgb3V0 IHRoZSBiYWxsYXN0cywgYnV0IHRoYXQgd2FzIGVhc3kgdG8gZG8uPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IHN0eWxl PSJkaXJlY3Rpb246IGx0cjsiPjxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iZGlyZWN0aW9uOiBs dHI7Ij5UaGV5IGFsc28gbWFrZSBhIHZlcnNpb24gdGhhdCBpcyA5NiZxdW90OyBsb25nIHdpdGgg c2luZ2xlLXBpbiBiYXNlczoNCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmxvd2VzLmNvbS9wZC9HRS1V bHRyYS1CcmlnaHQtRGlyZWN0LVdpcmUtMjUwLVdhdHQtRVEtVDgtRGF5bGlnaHQtU2luZ2xlLVBp bi1UOC1MRUQtTGlnaHQtQnVsYi0yLVBhY2svNTAxMzgyMjIxOSIgaWQ9Ik9XQTUyYzA1Y2MwLWJl ZjAtNjRkMy0xYTQzLTkzYTAyOWE1Y2ZjMSIgY2xhc3M9Ik9XQUF1dG9MaW5rIiBkYXRhLWF1dGg9 Ik5vdEFwcGxpY2FibGUiPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubG93ZXMuY29tL3BkL0dFLVVsdHJhLUJyaWdo dC1EaXJlY3QtV2lyZS0yNTAtV2F0dC1FUS1UOC1EYXlsaWdodC1TaW5nbGUtUGluLVQ4LUxFRC1M aWdodC1CdWxiLTItUGFjay81MDEzODIyMjE5PC9hPjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iZGlyZWN0 aW9uOiBsdHI7Ij48YnI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImRpcmVjdGlvbjogbHRyOyI+RG91 ZzwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iZGlyZWN0aW9uOiBsdHI7Ij48YnI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYg c3R5bGU9ImRpcmVjdGlvbjogbHRyOyI+T24gTW9uLCBPY3QgMTksIDIwMjYgYXQgMToyNOKAr1BN IGpvaG4gbmlvbG9uICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86am5pb2xvbkBhdHQubmV0IiBpZD0iT1dB Nzg0OTlkNzItYWYyOS1mNGNmLTJhYzgtN2IyMzk4Y2IxZDg5IiBjbGFzcz0iT1dBQXV0b0xpbmsi PmpuaW9sb25AYXR0Lm5ldDwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjwvZGl2Pg0KPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgc3R5bGU9 Im1hcmdpbjogMHB4IDBweCAwcHggMC44ZXg7IHBhZGRpbmctbGVmdDogMWV4OyBib3JkZXItbGVm dDogMXB4IHNvbGlkIHJnYigyMDQsIDIwNCwgMjA0KTsiPg0KPGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iZGlyZWN0aW9u OiBsdHI7IGZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiAmcXVvdDtTZWdvZSBVSSZxdW90OzsiPkhpIGFsbDwvZGl2Pg0K PGRpdiBzdHlsZT0iZGlyZWN0aW9uOiBsdHI7Ij4mbmJzcDs8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImRp cmVjdGlvbjogbHRyOyBmb250LWZhbWlseTogJnF1b3Q7U2Vnb2UgVUkmcXVvdDs7Ij5NeSAzMCB5 ZWFyIG9sZCA4JyB0LTEyIChzaW5nbGUgcGluKSZuYnNwO2dhcmFnZSBmaXh0dXJlcyBhcmUgc2xv d2x5IGR5aW5nLi4uKDQgdG90YWwgZG91YmxlIHR1YmUpPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJkaXJl Y3Rpb246IGx0cjsgZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6ICZxdW90O1NlZ29lIFVJJnF1b3Q7OyI+dGhlIG9sZCB0 LTEycyBhcmUgaGFyZCB0byBmaW5kIGFuZCBleHBlbnNpdmUgKDE2LTIwIGJ1Y2tzIGEgdHViZSk8 L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImRpcmVjdGlvbjogbHRyOyI+Jm5ic3A7PC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2IHN0 eWxlPSJkaXJlY3Rpb246IGx0cjsgZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6ICZxdW90O1NlZ29lIFVJJnF1b3Q7OyI+ V2FudCB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gbGVkLi4uIGxvdHMgb2Ygb3B0aW9ucyZuYnNwOyAtIDgnIGxlZCB0 dWJlcyBhcmUgZXhwZW5zaXZlIHRvbyAuLi48L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9ImRpcmVjdGlvbjog bHRyOyI+Jm5ic3A7PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_SA1PR84MB3895F72A0CE451D68347D62FBB982SA1PR84MB3895NAMP_-- --===============8981449596717491419== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8981449596717491419==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Oct 19 14:30:22 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7665FA0BF3 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 14:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic309-24.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.184.150]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15E8A07B1 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 14:00:13 -0600 (MDT) t=1792439981; bh=wXYqJ5AU8rfwZQ6KNkJdFYiOp6oFmJ4Zy6nW2aDqPhQ=; h=From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=F0d4fUQ7FAPJbPySDRh2ayF5DItcvmdhnFe/GLmDxPv6eHwg9BYxW/FeotWwNkCsmQp9M9vZdU28JUyZv5tTV0jz7QPupesYaBiU032SR16jBQdhK6WtMhaI2AE28Sn1T3AIIvrFeQOMcgV2+lB1VLSaJ9To6sIVwlVplcuSZOY= t=1792439981; bh=BJX+e2auybaIL2fwzv+B5iAsPrnuscrXcrayUtIcUAy=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Date:Subject:From:Subject; b=E1oWjK2l00/KAaD/haHIKZOAr/vTe1buHvP6jDu8zx0fwaCLrp1f6gmhu6Rwl3agNu9+105WUHiBB6xKgKbRlJoGVBpeIehDkdHnjEw/h5jlXcOHtuwgOER+KWJ5Jwcim4jcWUSASc8o996Wlvrxj4XNR4W2IMGubI2q3poGnpQk21f71dwMKtS7neG8NECPS189OiHCHae2I0+QNuQg50xg2P4rH1uFcFOvxmLh2sSID4++5BN910d8pWK3paqXHcc1I9KAKhRSdnsGZ0wcOraYIca++J0xsTd4kvFNFOXKoVD+YsyJ3t9L/inB294wEYKeeHSQowR95CxQJZ/9lg== DnDQZ16qswDBUGFLQNMdp8fbdwTQkf8QjibXEF.nuT1kj6MZ1Slvut2K844EwpNlbc1tzuHt3GqI eHFB217RoVifxcYlgjVDVuxwWeU7SFW4hX_fx2deF74b0O4aOexk.l7cdSPVCOBvp8xjF8z01GRg SeFfvR7X1n2H4oJQe8ztqlnFqTH_2QsBrm1NjvMGYmRGVVdcFC7ShJd2ZaqWfjwL43m1DtYxGky3 .AYAWU9Lgyt0nbnxkrEL2Ho6K5AnSL5yRTqJDvRWCtMvt5tH.NYlf3tdftBl6R8IORmBKE1WuJhY 3y3Ik7cW98iJiFyhNKmZY1T7ooZd5ZXpYVkNnkkiFK1vZWbPqGW2VAN1qdAdiADv8WcuAyXJFFRx mTdl6kpqy8ZJFAke4kieQ8ULbaFDiY6D0PK_b.LmtijI8Xfy8chFeaKDQzmqGqRZffKnYHgk6r.X jlrGd3BsvFH1fVw4vihjh97Wd4Bc_p7OtJpsQKjVaWZZywcQ4J.oGUeqTXBYv9mQ1DXc.u5bIcwi YtwKV2s3XmXg1u9AiLYb4btqhpv14dbP02n._3bmW4FCeG7w3GSmi6JpWbUvWmHfrsTWSEby.ufE x_EBI8L13KrYBCcsyfy83CYmeysXXg4gTgBghl0D8DkVpaUfz89Si0Bzx.5osXvQ_r9TPUB3z9TC rvJYDexBASL_ECmIMW8RaaMD8plXIzhHYJAnAUr85vLXHnH5uH00bibJZ7HlU0Wc5XLqf9UkbRk4 Nf9bHcIYao2s2fGKUQ3Ci1UykGLzvyUH3gB5Mta0.5vlyBId6ayjdF9TzuNLEMk3WpbGIVAs3LoK eznbJCUCLshc.OPluLbmdR.yxAXHKNoXNTJDljtMCwbTt8IhQ3VL3VIkUssY2q_vqQ_xGOdEK8ds 4noYSgULRzCKIDRAPMM08EUzPML_lRpOEUIxPUWdN_4QIgMJZbe9oFH3Kob3LHSzpYAPPDngX5bk F1ylegzd9UcGnKL.VkW354.3pEziuK_qE27npvAp0eoIXXKhcNB4RVNL6V94XYe1k2Pf1U5v03hd luE6L8F.uGgHOm9YsOuTfrTvGZ7N5PFqV38tIopNc8i2mmvRFn62ZeTcKt2T6y2_KuS_Uap5jZaM mNboX0oOuqowH5DO6IEUFrCrj2pVx.1jlYp2134yicHTrzTtUlZ1P3ZLZqmKIViziozSeIhV6fx0 87BogImyQlvn0LCWJuU1HV_izx2CJR8m6Ne1y4S5TxozcbSYPF.mgmE3e2w6RaaoA.kDCYio_clD z37XwQVQ4MkaICy0sry03fjzTbEPLw2V9.BB0lfhq5474tmGRfZwjLOgROLer4MM2hb9iuwZrOsB sE4GrU1UZJ0tuqcgdfmzKLumj2Ya3s56VYb4Prdz5oqhozquekhNAxV87fsgeZjDb.alFWiNlN3m rrXAD1UTYRr9GhBG.CN_ug3t7l4.qDrXKqq84KY7CtCvbc0oyrqD3lwaFeCzvtkz1F6L_pQItLIs Wj4WXamDR5dPoLJexe1krTsQqp5jZgM.rtr3gb6opVy.pgV9g.MdtIo3mlQMmbQHtdgHaUCkYyvq vSccMwBDUTn74JhVZ7U7EMab6XnSZZ1QbYVPhL8nWx4YLlN1vG9cKD00_lCj05p4LwiLEX0erCZg cGMU2xN3hXQkcAkY_EAVZHX318TkOXc7WkiwCevEryRsnjKQfmkmdmgFPZyMiukuN1OvxhMPCtB1 z4.mZwm5MsisF95_nbW6YUUzBuHC95wTGDzbnu_uJ1tr1O7XYtSm1SCMMLDOkbnbMGH9AK.sKhDQ tVZZ3hJMNdTdMASADPmrKN6a4CaneuJfn56z0UpHUb4hssxfCTK0CHeHWS8TgGTu7iDzGTQgXRVG CdVBMYOdLDkHxtAX32sVKuerMQqU.o5._S5.alOgIDAe5nS0jkUoyTFFqjwJ6TQZUmR0YUM6Iq8l X3XBc6IcxukL4gjcv23Aeyozkg3yDpe_cO4Ozpa7Vf3Pj7iBP_AJrdZKRfxSEI437vaKGcoZaI_U 39vWomHDR3bCjSU__L27OI5L2h2rKgAwuHwugz73ySlcK1jMCijroK7XSX6T822y5Wkkgj_py50r 4diN2mWFGMPqFq6.XBmt7OeWgggnE4TMiMEFM896TrvrY1A.atNTW013yCZ4r6pRlZS1Zhjc89m4 8AJ9V0sHde7DhSTMDVLd73JlidgelSkl_AoU7dtA8C7StLan4t3QtHrsRfQP_8WXnGnML9EA- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:59:41 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-bf1-6d6877594b-4bzzg (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 2fb8a5b815ebe2ce7ec53d5bbac26a46; Mon, 19 Oct 2026 19:59:38 +0000 (UTC) From: "john niolon" To: "Eric Russell" , "shop-talk" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 14:59:36 -0500 References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> User-Agent: OEClassic/5.4.1 (Win10.19045; P; 2026-08-13) mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1933259588573642662== --------------090901090403040408080903 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline after considering all the options and work involved and cost...=20 I'm just gonna scrap what I got and I've order a 10 pacl of the stick light linking ones and install those... 6 will do what I need = so=20 I'll have 4 spares and will probably get more light than the flor tubes (especially since 4 bulbs are burned out now) :-) =20 =20 thanks for all the input =20 john =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Russell To: john niolon Cc: shop-talk Sent: 10/19/2026 12:24:08 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover I have changed all the 4'=20 fluorescents in our garage to the eLcheapo (tm) LED linkable sticks. After = 5+=20 years=20 I've had one fail out of 12. I bought a few extras when they went on sale. = Also (if it matters) no problems with them working in cold weather. (OK, co= ld in North Carolina may not be cold elsewhere but the fluorescents I had w= ould often not work when it was cold.)=20 EjR=20 On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 1:17=E2=80=AFPM john niolon wrote= : Hi all =20 My 30 year old 8'=20 t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube) the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) =20 Want to change to led... lots of options -=20 8' led tubes are expensive too ...=20 =20 I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin=20 bulbs that work with a ballast...(heat sink) =20 option 1=20 if I use these=20 I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and figure out the shunted vs non shunted type... AND find the 8'=20 to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones =20 option 2 8'=20 type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as=20 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast not great reviews when shipped... =20 option 3 =20 replace all the crap with the internet specials linkable stick lights and = hope they work =20 comments on options ???? =20 questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't=20 I using more electricity using the ballast=20 and heating it up... is there any savings here ??? =20 =20 please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive talk/ejrussell61@gmail.com --------------090901090403040408080903 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
after considering all the options and work inv= olved and cost... I'm just gonna scrap what I got and I've order a 10 pacl<= /FONT>
of the stick light linking ones and install th= ose... 6 will do what I need so I'll have 4 spares and will probably get mo= re light
than the flor tubes (especially since 4 bulbs = are burned out now) :-) 
 
thanks for all the input
 
john
 
= ----- Original Message -----
= From: Eric Russell <ejrusse= ll61@gmail.com>
= To: john niolon <jniolon@att.net<= /A>>
= Sent: 10/19/2026 12:24:08 PM
= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover
I have changed all th= e 4' fluorescents in our garage to the eLcheapo (tm) LED linkable stic= ks. After 5+ years I've had one fail out of 12. I bought a few extras when = they went on sale. Also (if it matters) no problems with them working in co= ld weather. (OK, cold in North Carolina may not be cold elsewhere but the f= luorescents I had would often not work when it was cold.) 

EjR 
=
On Mon, Oct 19, 2026 at 1:17=E2=80=AFPM j= ohn niolon <jniolon@att.net> w= rote:
Hi all
 
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garag= e fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (= 16-20 bucks a tube)
 
Want to change to led... lots of options = - 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
 
I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that = work with a ballast...(heat sink)
 
option 1
if I use these I'd have to change all the tomb= stones to bi-pin and figure out the
shunted vs non shunted type...  AND find = the 8' to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones
 
option 2
8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same= price as 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast
not great reviews when shipped...
 
option 3
 
replace all the crap with the internet special= s  linkable stick lights and hope they work
 
comments on options ????
 
questions... when using the ballast type plug = and plays... aren't I using more electricity using the ballast
and heating it up... is there any savings here= ???
 
 
please educate the old dummy on best (least ex= pensive) options
 
 
 
_____________________= __________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.tea= m.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive:= http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.ne= t/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61@gmail.com=

--------------090901090403040408080903-- --===============1933259588573642662== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1933259588573642662==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 20 05:54:28 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F992A0BCC for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2026 05:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [34.199.103.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B515A0601 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2026 05:46:29 -0600 (MDT) References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent From: eric@megageek.com Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2026 07:45:56 -0400 10/20/2026 07:46:07 AM, Serialize complete at 10/20/2026 07:46:07 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============3119526672888252105== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0040A18885258E96_= AW, The moment I thought would never come is here. John, I have a few boxes (maybe 30 in total bulbs) of the 8' single pin lights. Come pick them up in NJ and they are yours for free. I doubt it would pay to ship them as they would require such protection to ship. Where are you located? Moose --=_alternative 0040A18885258E96_= AW, The moment I thought would never come is here.

John, I have a few boxes (maybe 30 in total bulbs) of the 8' single pin lights.

Come pick them up in NJ and they are yours for free.

I doubt it would pay to ship them as they would require such protection to ship.

Where are you located?

Moose --=_alternative 0040A18885258E96_=-- --===============3119526672888252105== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3119526672888252105==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 20 06:55:48 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8465BA0C0E for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2026 06:55:48 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic314-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.189.149]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2793A0CBC for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2026 06:26:05 -0600 (MDT) t=1792499133; bh=L3rmipiHakvLkO4NiqYrx58oY3Lj1eQtf3Brj8tV6MY=; h=From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=M7sXy/POT7HzKC1RHJFds8Z/c6LhLu29CN0W3XUgcN8jP4i7IRWoDx2ZGlbiVvY9Bswk1KMjyKqtTRNtiCoqpMqE6urxG4HSq+buQEutYtPpIoYO8GdPxtI89StjFbshfu+HqAMGP1otXaBQ7UrM2PpBeqhKPHnChbD4EHHgZD8= t=1792499133; bh=VnOGle+Knb+e2i+OXk79V4XefWt+YUcsWX7xF4QXvpZ=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Date:Subject:From:Subject; b=Cv58AmLU6JKFNAtCwpjivzDLNHP8j05vtFGBlXgQdFuWuTVNVbtXftkjMmtY9DaDoPspEdwxSO1I6uTO5IAYGnDwyE4QLopPTm/oG7VKz/01z6lu2IU9CpzHWPEb9pj4e+34q5p4Eil8/EA3Siw5iYZx7S1S0z4cJd7spBcRm83Qcs+LVekrpFxycc/oArp7fvFvvTgGnPdvfTOQ0EWw/TzhtflO1utTvDJbBJ4Nav/w3p3ciduchKoWSBXSwdfyMcKtS3qCg0lEk8H+6SK4TRZmIPoC6SA7M5fXco82oT2h9652UhrnE6LncbcF6lmFkW0k2VTbvBD+Z8XeSQlzgQ== zc9nmJlFckhkjXuPDsS07qe8ms5Ot9t4TdbvkuVAqUJlpZf9O5B3Ds9hwVZIhRp3PKZKGrOeAqoY Zrvwcf8WqcSQVsbIDEFbSEuI0GENE9MaKXjiobGh_1w1fsaPRPUDazW2hY6VUKQT8gB4feO59h2d pnCwEE6gJW.0JFoT0_0TtvkJnuWyv0WcFG47P0lP0DxnX81B9ZFbiSQRCULrzemE4P2lc2bv5c6e o4LuG0DAJ90PtfE542BvRLb0tWN9HRpw61iq1ibfYp8uldmKC0Iv1e4xxWHVmlelEQ1WBnMTN9fx rCi5TVxklJKn4S_by3NPgT0uxpNuYhHtQhe10xpSI1QY.11tvc8p8nyeG4qpx4RMYvUlW5fwsCUJ EIHhiJREfxBL5H74hKXZ6ciHp0.JFt7EjvdLGsu0Y7dVyOCGnZLT2Qh0QEgzFOpGgekBVHjKw9RY r4gVsqKzAMvOxzvBNHmiS_DigEpj.exo5LBTxGqVTU2.kCPzc8yBHeDuw0OEtqk3.sKGQbD7uUeX luEwCSxsgXHNDphAJ5r.Ivg4JaBqv3so9EbaGacvo4GFTbCio75U4S6P9BuwrR15RTDpL.fgCKXl 7IzD7ebsMaI8nH5BPJ1uic7DCzmvnxo4j_HAJtijH8NxrFfrq7Scvwrph5e1Z7GITCyb4YBPmzlD IGerawZhExJl3n1SXj4xOTR20t_7Xx_TnOxr6xAvKfz74pvEBp9g_5ppAy_14Tep1bdLbUg4z4u8 HuciYGj0tVo8fgmDMsYOI7flrkTHnJzUutVsQVPuk3Zrx38hM7aXxq4sqJacXBKB_5p6TvA2k2V3 5X8Yonk53CvgNSib1d8n11fyeGTMapMCYq71qd1ihMH5b81JCcng2CKojoMa2Ag3r9ewBsRavQ5A Nml.J2vL3Y4RnmEiF_X0kxxr64HsE.HJ44u6EzC.zODwpagw1sIjolP0Rc1X6BwMKuwkWs.MOOoF upZc8iz_Y4Gg_e2fUVfIUzQAvGRrUTl.Sm3CD0lcL8DULvvpKsvQNJNYWI1ryNCKvYcrtY3Xi5I2 NaH0PisYR82knVuMLdp2G07rT65HhcI9UvXAzyYsMHFYoAJlbyD4Y5eJh.rgqdOPsSI5dANr8A86 DGxLrzjmQCqODHvT8mNdUfBZ1MFte6v.ZEaqvzHAT6DHUSAbh2kzAGWDAb4SfEF17qz63SXTrdYV g6KSuNk5_GjrJ0g4qv2kcz86OtrFidTqxG6JdiKLTZ8sH1w.7u.ieaUfaNZblGX1Cf07XvFeO3St rpgs_YZxs6JiomdAR8CUAHt73xJCK.f6nCSeeuS6n3K3wlnx1mv.RVKpXozU24sbBlsnW5nqFQLd tAqK.E.FycXz5CLgS4Xb0nP9Zpy6vklwHV7udaQ0qV4Lu.P93uBIk4gZi.qOvmW5DGLtUWIHdKiC 36URg_k3VGuMDCGh5ecgXnNrg6_o7U8pWE7xcfPdM9.wBRyHiL4pmkBs3LMAYG4boXw9sUixcdS1 Uv1WjrPtkVzRDrGvF3dxTtGfoZSZdun6lLSc.Dhfy0nybsLjMXtJB22wPOjJ3GZlaM1vWBV2cM1D .1L4YmA0dQT5fJOrodadEnI6yQmiEUlGbU_URzekqWtwxRJK1.X8zuo1AStK2aHrkVhmux_VIhbT Ex9u_cD1977PxEbCFGY.EH3cWpnkol_B8uIMdf2m_WDpZ9Pfrkevbe9vYlhqbMoO6MkzMyV1kN5e 9OuPFNvAEujwn5Rhg.ofvxe_vEi6AOGZdAaFOp2ouGr9kXlBDoTamW4Mi7Orc32PrdEAO8C6o_fF yw1XNCPKzjPymfdxj.Dld8wQfnO3fW594mm7EO3WnRugPQbxuOMLxzz6V0A1YT4JRvTQn.RT4VHB w3yctovGlHRM0TNi2kiJKgjNY2tgIojpScUfPKY2o5k5HaozKM4rMsxxxNKtLZoGmblNwV7E7fx3 LNEti_g4UiR1dT38bjgVS1YbCpVcMrkh9.pV780wfRIbPQxP5oD_pASLkEYiOKpJUUOg5M2dUz4D 9D1HpPuOYPOvSGs5gDs6TqNetp2wAqu_IlVG2xtX3P4cb5IOfnw20K.gmWEiAmPv5ysA5EzZfJnk TLwxMRJlBGxN4sK6Wgl9cRJQkokBfa.ACtTSpHUWEDcxgCrzqkfYVflCvXkYasSnKf9oRWCXbwjF 5ufLhBau76iF.LpctMIXU6Ra0FKqbQ4sdeN1HXvzsYyJYw5_IN8VnLymBJv9J0VAyb.t9h44- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Oct 2026 12:25:33 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-bf1-6d6877594b-7jv57 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3cd452f6fc1587dfad07a381de58b130; Tue, 20 Oct 2026 12:25:31 +0000 (UTC) From: "john niolon" To: eric@megageek.com, "shop-talk" Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2026 07:25:29 -0500 References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY.ref@johns-desktop> <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> User-Agent: OEClassic/5.4.1 (Win10.19045; P; 2026-08-13) mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1708045256383053307== --------------050402040101070301040500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline thanks Moose, amazing offer... but,=20 I'm in Alabama and the trip would be high $$$$$ =20 I went with the internet led stick lights...should be here by Friday... wil= l report on success =20 thanks john =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: john niolon Sent: 10/20/2026 6:45:56 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover AW, The moment I thought would never come is here.=20 John, I have a few boxes (maybe 30 in total bulbs) of the 8'=20 single pin lights.=20 Come pick them up in NJ and they are yours for free.=20 I doubt it would pay to ship them as they would require such protection to = ship.=20 Where are you located?=20 Moose=20 --------------050402040101070301040500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
thanks Moose, amazing offer... but, I'm in Ala= bama and the trip would be high $$$$$
 
I went with the internet led stick lights...sh= ould be here by Friday... will report on success
 
thanks
john
 
= ----- Original Message -----
= From: <eric@megageek.com>= ;
= Cc: john niolon <jniolon@att.net<= /A>>
= Sent: 10/20/2026 6:45:56 AM
= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover
AW, The moment I thought would never come is here.

John, I= have a few boxes (maybe 30 in total bulbs) of the 8' single pin lights.

Come = pick them up in NJ and they are yours for free.

I doubt it would pay to ship = them as they would require such protection to ship.

Where are you located?

Moose<= /SPAN>
--------------050402040101070301040500-- --===============1708045256383053307== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1708045256383053307==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 22 16:07:31 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7566DA077C for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2026 16:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oo1-f51.google.com (unknown [209.85.161.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E346EA06D3 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2026 16:02:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oo1-f51.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-6cfed5dd083so199480eaf.1 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2026 15:02:19 -0700 (PDT) d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1792706539; x=1793311339; darn=autox.team.net; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=O2I0sogymWWizW3Alv5Evs29WsHp3nZ+KAKeUZlWe9Y=; b=Hyh1MhohzBVjKk26m6LPfFiJNDj3+mpObiDAVwAxj0E3d9mIAoJDhbKnDsM7anzPM+ hCUjppCHcOhkwoFa1lCcBJtzLTa6BfU+IzKenIi4WRdUDaIooqInW0O9QRD0KS2rtvrm Ua2Js2slJCGTXWhrBnIX/paX+7jpkPDZrgIyWfGF+wzzW1iz75xm1INDuHn5KnkbW+7/ ivothPskYMKhZmHqnbwPZ8V1+3q7/x82UXekJz3QbXiU1pnRbCB6lW3u9gLHPo/4uhcs fBU29eUnD1slASCx43fNnS41N1YaM6fmnCSlsSN1wUHccLFl6SFmXxNVRiQhEkQV79NW bzkA== d=1e100.net; s=20260707; t=1792706539; x=1793311339; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:x-gm-gg :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=O2I0sogymWWizW3Alv5Evs29WsHp3nZ+KAKeUZlWe9Y=; b=YqNtSdP/OqpW1ITk+RQrHojVVJ65zaaifx7oGwiscw95EsKvMuKLVRpYDmejMCn/0J Ji972kGOGVe4/1Ij378/CWysJbxjGRhR+hrh6x/vbVosC+B79gY5Ggjqn2Bzfjx8+tZ2 YwPYQE3+zfE3gQwcW3lrR/qNq+V3phLNO1TF0NSslOFTq9/YXnR7fIT144R5ZuBpFwLu B30NKHSY/K+aQaYGQiA8mpjPtxQDWItfqWH18DThDBhbMY9cqkYvYyGJhyTT3YjSeFIt mzpnWOKDm7cKSY0jC6eEXE5Nb9eF4IDrCUmlV8ANi2LaAy2+5D6YP7jB2aWYuQCJh17V eOCQ== Jc9a7Lfzx19n+w/ZDo+rXtuuSE/kdjJgASyyKEisao4/DXPP0CB9azxLufkN Nzvqfr1YGzRit/WQg/C+ke+KPXJLHzfmWblkMMAQo/ohx2hBVlg+djcqNlRuG8uuzXIrnPAmJBi GDy81WJdbeynzxSi3xlr9lurRSeZ3EzEpYUl5yRg2ZBQpp5F8i1jWYXygRFxWauIgm9pilhYmmc 8AhuYpyczBqBZt4uPjbvXN7S98Dogprc+CmDrwAD/JXDVcVSOzMjGbXPjUo0ecIcsxa0KFvUeDm Ma4vW8GbVGIXg4IQ7KYS5osE0FmY1ZnGK8GgHfEvWdCRAt2QF0hQJmNCZ2w3cUKGz6xAH5NlWpW R1fKr3v0993DymAZwp5Isx1NIvlIL6L0P1w8Yt+jFD1ORJtdQVgMgOfDacA9P2vucaOuTD7MAoI jC1KecmILyt/3UVSkhwFEvZR409XIjhBAGKbTLKNMyfKNQIa2J4RZSlHteIh9+ZYyjRbeQbnmwJ qYxU5fADOION4aq+uvtPU1xFwvsLVWbaUDCCXF7zQNV1ptACfQzIqyofr3vwXd3Hn7kZIrNnXld zeJ5tEh+scj7NDHgprUzITcHx6ND1dSKT1qkToX79Ge+hJDPAR+XYc61W/3dndg3 006d021491bc7-70b888cb36dmr523878eaf.2.1792706538717; Thu, 22 Oct 2026 15:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:383:fc5:d3e2:51fa:d6df:705f:65cd]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 006d021491bc7-70b8adb8d93sm383240eaf.0.2026.10.22.15.02.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 22 Oct 2026 15:02:17 -0700 (PDT) From: David Scheidt Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2026 17:02:05 -0500 References: <1UnKbQNUVE.L2SszN5vGEY@johns-desktop> To: john niolon Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] flourescent to led changeover Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1569210273139013883== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-0D1D11F3-2B9E-4BB8-8551-D62482A5B6D2 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 8=E2=80=99 fluorescent fixtures are probably worth remapping with led tubes,= replacing lamp holders as required, and bypassing the ballast, as they are p= robably better fixtures than what you would replace with. If the layout was g= enerally okay that is what I would recommend. =20 Plug connected led shop lights are universally garbage, unless you=E2=80=99r= e paying for real commercial fixtures. The market is entirely price driven, f= or people unwilling to do something better, and they are built as cheaply as= possible, and often a little bit cheaper than that, to the detriment of the= ir lifespan. There=E2=80=99s certainly a place for that, as a light over a w= ork bench that gets used 10 times a year isn=E2=80=99t worth spending money o= n, nor are rentals worth improving by the tenant. The good thing is they=E2= =80=99re easy to replace=E2=80=A6 > On Oct 19, 2026, at 12:26, john niolon wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi all > =20 > My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage fixtures are slowly dying...(4 t= otal double tube) > the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (16-20 bucks a tube) > =20 > Want to change to led... lots of options - 8' led tubes are expensive too= ... > =20 > I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that work with a ballast...(heat s= ink) > =20 > option 1 > if I use these I'd have to change all the tombstones to bi-pin and figure o= ut the > shunted vs non shunted type... AND find the 8' to 4' fixture conversion k= its (adding the middle tombstones > =20 > option 2 > 8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same price as 8' fluorescent) an= d use a ballast > not great reviews when shipped... > =20 > option 3 > =20 > replace all the crap with the internet specials linkable stick lights and= hope they work > =20 > comments on options ???? > =20 > questions... when using the ballast type plug and plays... aren't I using m= ore electricity using the ballast > and heating it up... is there any savings here ??? > =20 > =20 > please educate the old dummy on best (least expensive) options > =20 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmsche= idt@gmail.com >=20 --Apple-Mail-0D1D11F3-2B9E-4BB8-8551-D62482A5B6D2 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
8=E2=80=99 fluorescent fixtur= es are probably worth remapping with led tubes, replacing lamp holders as re= quired, and bypassing the ballast, as they are probably better fixtures than= what you would replace with. If the layout was generally okay that is what I= would recommend.  

Pl= ug connected led shop lights are universally garbage, unless you=E2=80=99re p= aying for real commercial fixtures. The market is entirely price driven, for= people unwilling to do something better, and they are built as cheaply as p= ossible, and often a little bit cheaper than that, to the detriment of their= lifespan. There=E2=80=99s certainly a place for that, as a light over a wor= k bench that gets used 10 times a year isn=E2=80=99t worth spending money on= , nor are rentals worth improving by the tenant.  The good thing is the= y=E2=80=99re easy to replace=E2=80=A6


On Oct 19, 2026, at 12:26, john nio= lon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hi all
 
My 30 year old 8' t-12 (single pin) garage= fixtures are slowly dying...(4 total double tube)
the old t-12s are hard to find and expensive (1= 6-20 bucks a tube)
 
Want to change to led... lots of options  -= 8' led tubes are expensive too ...
 
I was gifted a box of 20 4' bi-pin bulbs that w= ork with a ballast...(heat sink)
 
option 1
if I use these I'd have to change all the tombs= tones to bi-pin and figure out the
shunted vs non shunted type...  AND find t= he 8' to 4' fixture conversion kits (adding the middle tombstones
 
option 2
8' type a led single pin tubes (about the same p= rice as 8' fluorescent) and use a ballast
not great reviews when shipped...
 
option 3
 
replace all the crap with the internet specials=   linkable stick lights and hope they work
 
comments on options ????
 
questions... when using the ballast type plug a= nd plays... aren't I using more electricity using the ballast
and heating it up... is there any savings here ?= ??
 
 
please educate the old dummy on best (least exp= ensive) options
 
 
 
______________________= _________________________

Shop-talk@autox.t= eam.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://w= ww.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options= /shop-talk/dmscheidt@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail-0D1D11F3-2B9E-4BB8-8551-D62482A5B6D2-- --===============1569210273139013883== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1569210273139013883==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 11:30:50 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF58AA0C50 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 11:30:50 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hognose1.porkbun.com (unknown [35.82.102.206]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E164A0147 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 11:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [68.239.50.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by hognose1.porkbun.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 20B03463781 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:25:20 +0000 (UTC) s=default; t=1793294720; bh=Ygb/zTAQBgD4/9dxKXfAb27hOQKLQRzqfUmgpEJqooc=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; b=PZS0xl5/2I2RkDzpLNd1pjY7C6MhfLkXtNhCXg5Cunb3ETdlkqQgIGw+wVMVksPUa BNd71dTMEi5xAJSnKSc95Dacx+TTwUMhBxWX9FjTVNP8xBvHi2jBLCKP4oICWiXjRP +MF0tEksRZJbmFgHettL9t8F1V3PY+1KbdsXLucs= From: Jim Franklin Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 13:25:08 -0400 To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to that side. I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far. I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator. Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options. Angle grinder won't reach around the back. Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. Any other ideas? thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 12:29:21 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61666A0D6A for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 12:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai (unknown [66.179.105.230]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6D1A0CF5 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 12:14:31 -0600 (MDT) bh=bi6v43edgN/FZ5mCbX4wp7+UjGwtHwtqljUZMbUDOH8=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=sQLErtnMK91ZiDRd4VMP7bNoLow4sHvyX7tSqqV/SlHl4D/HSwN12fz1XKJy03Rrz0ZysA+3twSfxI9FLAhGgRMxJmvqhEs9hYGimUZsjFot5kQ4oVMUl8AoDF0yTPgNKa/wXLgPI/FNLfSQ5RiTQtJjs/uG/hG6LJtwTLyPtSx15OPuP/+6vPlCSOWtZZjBn4YQmu169y1FPKJVuaZ2RDljxBxK8HJrSbn7+MmeWRkMBEq3P4xc9PYdbj4g8XtlBiW30ATpFGKFjrieO7Rxi+bTcoSyuT+JVbLE+1TUUdqdFI2b0U/lYw/cqBXWnriDgpHo9VA1Hah4WKrkfoKN7Q== Received: from steve-laptop.optonline.net (67.83.26.5) by altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai (authenticated as strovato) id 6AE38A5E00009837; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:13:55 -0400 (added by postmaster@optonline.net) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:13:53 -0400 To: Jim Franklin , Shop-Talk From: Steven Trovato References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim, Unless the concrete blob is the size of a Volkswagen, you should be able to pull the whole thing out of the ground without an excavator. There are various approaches with a farm jack and a chain, a car jack or a very long lever. Search for pulling fence posts on google or youtube. There are a bunch of videos that should give you some ideas. -Steve At 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote: >I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The >catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't >get to that side. > >I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which >means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz >into the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far. > >I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the >concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on >site but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave >it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the >joy of having an excavator. > >Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it >can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also >mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the >viability of these options. > >Angle grinder won't reach around the back. > >Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. > >Any other ideas? > >thanks, >jim -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 14:01:02 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516FDA0CF0 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hognose1.porkbun.com (unknown [35.82.102.206]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61477A06C1 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 13:56:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [68.239.50.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by hognose1.porkbun.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8553A4763EA; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 19:56:00 +0000 (UTC) s=default; t=1793303760; bh=SkOq1el3qKdzFCKlWBl3kcuDYnEYagtf+8xwGk6uBjI=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=SEecVMFy/xMoAL5hOdGIWim2r81JAGoiFKNAGdfF8V1x2rUKiEHScpEKpmX5k06UL UPlHwHKup9G4g0hwXx0XLx77rdHwYeK57doiUpQ0POvXb1eQUptMr0LMIaYMoJ24JE Kyn1Fd3ie5z1yCT8Ip2T0xTI+/3bkmg9M8c0XWOk= From: Jim Franklin Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 15:55:49 -0400 To: Steven Trovato References: <6AE38A5E00009837@altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Cc: Shop-Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1939529137216059652== boundary="Apple-Mail=_16F3A63F-D909-4163-841F-DBEDB7024B89" --Apple-Mail=_16F3A63F-D909-4163-841F-DBEDB7024B89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii Pulling them up will destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an = option. But I tried that with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house where = I do want to remove the concrete, and the posts didn't budge. The fence = is from the 60s when concrete was cheap :-) jim ps - when the neighbor put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled up = engine blocks and transmissions that had been buried decades ago, so you = might not be far off with Volkswagens! > On Oct 29, 2026, at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato = wrote: >=20 > Jim, >=20 > Unless the concrete blob is the size of a Volkswagen, you should be = able to pull the whole thing out of the ground without an excavator. = There are various approaches with a farm jack and a chain, a car jack or = a very long lever. Search for pulling fence posts on google or youtube. = There are a bunch of videos that should give you some ideas. >=20 > -Steve >=20 > At 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote: >> I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The = catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get = to that side. >>=20 >> I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which = means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into = the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far. >>=20 >> I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the = concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site = but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, = shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of = having an excavator. >>=20 >> Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it = can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted = in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of = these options. >>=20 >> Angle grinder won't reach around the back. >>=20 >> Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. >>=20 >> Any other ideas? >>=20 >> thanks, >> jim >=20 >=20 > --=20 > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com --Apple-Mail=_16F3A63F-D909-4163-841F-DBEDB7024B89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii Pulling them = up will destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an option. But I = tried that with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house where I do want to = remove the concrete, and the posts didn't budge. The fence is from the = 60s when concrete was cheap = :-)

jim

ps - when the = neighbor put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled up engine blocks = and transmissions that had been buried decades ago, so you might not be = far off with Volkswagens!

On = Oct 29, 2026, at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato <strovato@optonline.net> = wrote:

Jim,

Unless the concrete blob is the size of a = Volkswagen, you should be able to pull the whole thing out of the ground = without an excavator.  There are various approaches with a farm = jack and a chain, a car jack or a very long lever.  Search for = pulling fence posts on google or youtube.  There are a bunch of = videos that should give you some ideas.

-Steve

At = 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote:
I need to cut down about 20 of these a few = inches below grade. The catch is they are right next to my neighbor's = PVC fence, so I can't get to that side.

I can use my sawzall but = I want the cut parallel to the grade which means getting the entire = sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. Do-able and at = the top of the list so far.

I was going to rent an excavator = (still might) to also remove the concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch = of fill delivered (none on site but there may be some when they dig up = the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle = factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator.

Portable bandsaw = seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be mounted = vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw = table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these = options.

Angle grinder won't reach around the back.

Plasma = cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence.

Any other = ideas?

thanks,
jim


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by = Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

= --Apple-Mail=_16F3A63F-D909-4163-841F-DBEDB7024B89-- --===============1939529137216059652== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1939529137216059652==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 14:37:33 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7211FA0C3B for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f175.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4A0A0C2D for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f175.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-93f1cf92c9eso245450685a.0 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 13:32:40 -0700 (PDT) d=gmail.com; s=20260707; t=1793305960; x=1793910760; darn=autox.team.net; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:content-type :message-id:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=6YAYkmubPo7uxOrY8v9wUPihTEQRc62OTV1r8ve4oW4=; b=W+3O/p4TCEA/sI7DNfFiVUPM/W+Syc/NCihcL0eFtm2gohqkmiEZnOCOtPMIBGI5sc mJ6DdOXD28s1S5aly2ZMGFSd5+xGvYjYC73DzVEyH5pp11pFz+mJlDYD3lJ+plwjO3mE FYvSgZqxxR6GUCafYbp0pw0Oal6jgbMSdQLJDKH1YVT6hUqAzIw5WLMHDwMOWUQsrd/h /EdWiRXse+OwNCcu4O9aljv7oUloi/AmamKCCgqt8TOaabi7h4lif9WzBsukLnT8XPQN 1nlHSD4Ewdz/alhKdzdS4ypQOYclXeoWulsq7T3VQhuiAPIB4c/4CCpNwwPwVqfxXbGM lmIw== d=1e100.net; s=20260707; t=1793305960; x=1793910760; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:content-type :message-id:from:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=6YAYkmubPo7uxOrY8v9wUPihTEQRc62OTV1r8ve4oW4=; b=KtpqHQyyXPgSJu1nJwZwK8ffdlP4PI616V5J6sQPvc/vHpExpzNMb8aX7k6scxnWBg 2B+tegQkxuF58KtbZpIHBbEPuvxcox6Qg4D/QN2uzrNZ3hGYCW02pYM8h07TrXTdMz5a /UaDqfDkRcMXRqSauzwOpEuoBnV1ZjdXJC48m23rfLd2gJEjdsLpUQ11aVfdnLAszeKn ldoS2SR56IsnkHfhNudQQsUPTmXQiV3Vgmgonti3q3eQALTQdaTkugh+5QNZBrpEjt9D Deqa9z9iI4dO+U05/CkcQ0HtBU8qiZ97yJyvC5FuBphMkcbttb8ZrYY7E8kc8vHp8crS L+5A== AKwUvByeul4rJll9gDL2KU7FGCVAE5qNnumqfbgK2kxxm+aLwE2/RssE3l+IPBCWhzHNJ9Eh2NpgN7UG30U=@autox.team.net mecKY0/pgI+AXuqX2t9hAraHtx/hmurnIIQduIrUt3hPu4ZVJNfPjJEZQZ+5ng== zTb/WnX05W5Dg+v0dZ0fMtfy8CP9/kaX6UEVc+9CY4pb0MUE/+1gTjCszHuRSnAXMCjN1YeNaf1 OUIpu8FcNlJfqb099ca+H7+z5ojmBnhCaDxzE5zQqcRWupNjr8qXyxqgJ2XCNPNP+9q6N6jKK71 6UxBbxHPvPCcOaZA9eXMIB7JQBoNeTYwN2JoXTLgvcoibypbzWbSZAj7lPyzR5ivocwE7DLFnZj /nfRo21zY7De4rJvtzkRXif0gW4UN/9h3kBzPfSmPlkDz7Nm+Gj0y0AgfI6G3uOTxLZZ7P0jDuo jZRAB2i5JdHBtDc5h3Zm3fIpd+BZeNahmFVihmfPlXfieeF6eouum0sBvmwEaSusqI/1+c1J0aw x81EElQnW6t+dIhoPIr0Ibi1tHRFv8+lSP5M4lKnYYM0Z16QtI7pHAf27ylD0rHNl4k9jUb1tcL x0flWImlcbK4g+yGZNATM2RKlFyY7V+wMpFwvd4Z7JSQvm6ia8WzBYO0LOA3mQqWeIybHtD2pnt X1vIcpbA0yTHqkTsDn4J+7d5LwUBZQb03Tvmq1qhkG+tGu1jdHJXXHmRI8jA9rVG1Srul9+q/zO zK84z af79cd13be357-94421824e76mr58367285a.81.1793305959917; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 13:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (ool-182f24e5.dyn.optonline.net. [24.47.36.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-944210e4449sm36388285a.5.2026.10.29.13.32.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Oct 2026 13:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:32:28 -0400 To: Jim Franklin References: <6AE38A5E00009837@altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai> <6C84D036-1FC8-460D-9C27-2AA5A51B7B07@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Cc: Shop-Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8316790549844547641== boundary="Apple-Mail=_1848482C-7961-4EA0-8524-6300500104DF" --Apple-Mail=_1848482C-7961-4EA0-8524-6300500104DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 I don=E2=80=99t know if this is possible, but I have used an engine lift = to remove fence posts set in concrete before. The only challenge is = getting the chain on the post. I put a pair of heavy duty eye bolts in = each side and attached the chain to them. (FWIW, I have also pulled out = tree stumps the same way.) Jim > On Oct 29, 2026, at 3:55=E2=80=AFPM, Jim Franklin = wrote: >=20 > Pulling them up will destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an = option. But I tried that with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house where = I do want to remove the concrete, and the posts didn't budge. The fence = is from the 60s when concrete was cheap :-) >=20 > jim >=20 > ps - when the neighbor put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled up = engine blocks and transmissions that had been buried decades ago, so you = might not be far off with Volkswagens! >=20 >> On Oct 29, 2026, at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato >=20 >> Jim, >>=20 >> Unless the concrete blob is the size of a Volkswagen, you should be = able to pull the whole thing out of the ground without an excavator. = There are various approaches with a farm jack and a chain, a car jack or = a very long lever. Search for pulling fence posts on google or youtube. = There are a bunch of videos that should give you some ideas. >>=20 >> -Steve >>=20 >> At 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote: >>> I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The = catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get = to that side. >>>=20 >>> I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which = means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into = the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far. >>>=20 >>> I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the = concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site = but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, = shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of = having an excavator. >>>=20 >>> Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it = can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted = in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of = these options. >>>=20 >>> Angle grinder won't reach around the back. >>>=20 >>> Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. >>>=20 >>> Any other ideas? >>>=20 >>> thanks, >>> jim >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_1848482C-7961-4EA0-8524-6300500104DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 I don=E2=80=99t know if this is = possible, but I have used an engine lift to remove fence posts set in = concrete before.  The only challenge is getting the chain on the = post.  I put a pair of heavy duty eye bolts in each side and = attached the chain to them.  (FWIW, I have also pulled out tree = stumps the same way.)

Jim

On Oct 29, 2026, at 3:55=E2=80=AFPM, Jim Franklin = <jamesf@groupwbench.org> wrote:

Pulling them up will = destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an option. But I tried that = with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house where I do want to remove the = concrete, and the posts didn't budge. The fence is from the 60s when = concrete was cheap :-)

jim

ps - when the neighbor put in his garage, = the excavator guy pulled up engine blocks and transmissions that had = been buried decades ago, so you might not be far off with = Volkswagens!

On Oct 29, 2026, = at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato <strovato@optonline.net> = wrote:

Jim,

Unless = the concrete blob is the size of a Volkswagen, you should be able to = pull the whole thing out of the ground without an excavator.  There = are various approaches with a farm jack and a chain, a car jack or a = very long lever.  Search for pulling fence posts on google or = youtube.  There are a bunch of videos that should give you some = ideas.

-Steve

At 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin = wrote:
I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. = The catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't = get to that side.

I can use my sawzall but I want the cut = parallel to the grade which means getting the entire sawzall below grade = and sucking schmutz into the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list = so far.

I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also = remove the concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered = (none on site but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to = repave it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds = the joy of having an excavator.

Portable bandsaw seems like a = useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be mounted vertically to use = as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw table. Internet = isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options.

Angle = grinder won't reach around the back.

Plasma cutter is = contraindicated with neighbor's fence.

Any other = ideas?

thanks,
jim


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by = Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual = donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine@gmail.com=

= --Apple-Mail=_1848482C-7961-4EA0-8524-6300500104DF-- --===============8316790549844547641== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8316790549844547641==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 14:57:15 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC0AA060A for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from altprdrgo002.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai (unknown [66.179.105.89]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5525BA0668 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:37:18 -0600 (MDT) bh=qgnQPTP7qpaP1LJO1xK/+5po3vyEcOz4QmBo87qW2rw=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=PwAm4i13diEtPxgfdUK9XBEkbq23GZkhiGT6Oyv0E9tq/W/ez8lVt6aqcc6G0NwUXvS4X+Nf69tlVRANLOaj6XKpU1RUWeWjnxULkFdBfkapyNWnXe5AiMmbFGho68A4GGKW78vAyanuulk0vzDPG/rOnzJN60zt5NRj2kbj37YNLx3DOMwODYjrsTCJbi00qa55q35+PZyt1A/x6waR6H2w38GeDcwEG0xLRFfqxWyfHgCXyQiokElE+Vgpz6b+5vkxIO/Bs5yOlkIYNF53uDK0kPKGdiaKY2GH3aaOqHY54lN/xaiaHIKv6Aq1ypbl0anBWEaXNNcOptWDQRj1nQ== Received: from steve-laptop.optonline.net (67.83.26.5) by altprdrgo002.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai (authenticated as strovato) id 6AE3ADB8000024DA; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:36:44 -0400 (added by postmaster@optonline.net) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:36:42 -0400 To: Jim Franklin From: Steven Trovato References: <6AE38A5E00009837@altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai> <6C84D036-1FC8-460D-9C27-2AA5A51B7B07@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Cc: Shop-Talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Well, in that case, the excavator is probably not an option either. At 03:55 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote: >Pulling them up will destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an >option. But I tried that with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house >where I do want to remove the concrete, and the posts didn't budge. >The fence is from the 60s when concrete was cheap :-) > >jim > >ps - when the neighbor put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled >up engine blocks and transmissions that had been buried decades ago, >so you might not be far off with Volkswagens! -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 15:14:36 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A90A0D2A for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 15:14:31 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai (unknown [66.179.105.117]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFE6A0C98 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 14:43:48 -0600 (MDT) bh=5UsyWWZHX+0GtmOHi5lV0fH62Vc8/ZLEieLkvqE4K08=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=W+PKwPtuET+tAg1PFsbOCoszMOAvuDW1Yq6HP2BO5/usu3XRUYLwDJ0RE52fKDUjNChb2FDoM/oj06NV3iWWZctt9YvclJlhJbHD4SLz7HoDLX6XX9gQ2ijJNJKG79azEUXEIWIXtM40DmGQttKHoDcpH9AkqEY6bPtiUotyjD5eHUhxvoqEhyA8ri3Fhu9tWseM1cNvBd0hb4Bhm4+14UDLeyArlqZoVWbY5bITbYF7AyppANjXpdW1L6acPrGaocv0O2aV/A03TMgc3wpI1jc9ZooZJfcjs5HDpxBwRjufIr828GhSCBC0g0zuu/Sa/I4kCAo++1ZLUUzFCIuC2g== Received: from steve-laptop.optonline.net (67.83.26.5) by altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai (authenticated as strovato) id 6AE3AED400002D8D; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:43:13 -0400 (added by postmaster@optonline.net) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:43:11 -0400 To: Jim Franklin From: Steven Trovato References: <6AE38A5E00009837@altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai> <6C84D036-1FC8-460D-9C27-2AA5A51B7B07@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Cc: Shop-Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6897777075985889986== boundary="=====================_797885312==.ALT" --=====================_797885312==.ALT Also, it sounds like you're not exactly best friends with the neighbor. How confident are you that you know exactly where the property line is? I'm not recommending that you start a neighbor war, but knowing for sure could be useful at some point. At 03:55 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote: >Pulling them up will destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an >option. But I tried that with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house >where I do want to remove the concrete, and the posts didn't budge. >The fence is from the 60s when concrete was cheap :-) > >jim > >ps - when the neighbor put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled >up engine blocks and transmissions that had been buried decades ago, >so you might not be far off with Volkswagens! > >>On Oct 29, 2026, at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: >> >>Jim, >> >>Unless the concrete blob is the size of a Volkswagen, you should be >>able to pull the whole thing out of the ground without an >>excavator. There are various approaches with a farm jack and a >>chain, a car jack or a very long lever. Search for pulling fence >>posts on google or youtube. There are a bunch of videos that >>should give you some ideas. >> >>-Steve >> >>At 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote: >>>I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The >>>catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I >>>can't get to that side. >>> >>>I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade >>>which means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking >>>schmutz into the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far. >>> >>>I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the >>>concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on >>>site but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave >>>it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the >>>joy of having an excavator. >>> >>>Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if >>>it can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also >>>mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the >>>viability of these options. >>> >>>Angle grinder won't reach around the back. >>> >>>Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. >>> >>>Any other ideas? >>> >>>thanks, >>>jim >> >> >>-- >>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>www.avast.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com --=====================_797885312==.ALT Also, it sounds like you're not exactly best friends with the neighbor.  How confident are you that you know exactly where the property line is?  I'm not recommending that you start a neighbor war, but knowing for sure could be useful at some point.

At 03:55 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote:
Pulling them up will destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an option. But I tried that with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house where I do want to remove the concrete, and the posts didn't budge. The fence is from the 60s when concrete was cheap :-)

jim

ps - when the neighbor put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled up engine blocks and transmissions that had been buried decades ago, so you might not be far off with Volkswagens!

On Oct 29, 2026, at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato <strovato@optonline.net> wrote:

Jim,

Unless the concrete blob is the size of a Volkswagen, you should be able to pull the whole thing out of the ground without an excavator.  There are various approaches with a farm jack and a chain, a car jack or a very long lever.  Search for pulling fence posts on google or youtube.  There are a bunch of videos that should give you some ideas.

-Steve

At 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote:
I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to that side.

I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far.

I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator.

Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options.

Angle grinder won't reach around the back.

Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence.

Any other ideas?

thanks,
jim


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Virus-free.www.avast.com
--=====================_797885312==.ALT-- --===============6897777075985889986== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6897777075985889986==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 16:17:38 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C99A0C84 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta-101a.earthlink-vadesecure.net (unknown [51.81.61.60]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0575A0C63 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:13:27 -0600 (MDT) re5cg=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; h=from:reply-to:subject: date:to:cc:resent-date:resent-from:resent-to:resent-cc:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-unsubscribe-post: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; q=dns/txt; s=dk12062016; t=1793311973; x=1793916773; b=HWA5OX+004YIG4EtTE1UsYaFoGC Qde8mHEO0oZQBJenrEMydR6iEqQUlYrSJMfk0u7ibLmcQKLT0pGnhi6tBs0ORhhHyitMlY8 2cyvFjQ54AHF0XXcr+Ixy5O4zrXDUqYoX0QRkpKf05O2HwFgK2idd30wjNZXb8zt0gcWRVL 7nKAQZ4sEELLGVG6T/wE/scDzy7kvFejLRZjK6a9nlMjZr5FOgKe4aHQTUvzh4mIwGtZM2X 6jF3j8cVNSS30QhTqdMEruhi+K7bHjU7S5YjCYTZlBXJ7ncss2+QhkCHGd5Uof/o/v3WeyJ CBHlhDUAZeVV7ePvJ8FRCb1rB0955oA== Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([20.185.102.81]) by vsel1nmtao01p.internal.vadesecure.com with ngmta id 7bf0d44f-18e31fbcc5df7567; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 22:12:53 +0000 From: Brian Kemp To: Jim Franklin Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 22:12:52 +0000 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Cc: Shop-Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3102044325945018154== boundary="--_NmP-b57363a81a4b8784-Part_1" ----_NmP-b57363a81a4b8784-Part_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How about something like this? A fence post may be too thick, but there = are similar options for heavier pipe. https://www.homedepot.com/p/GEARWRENCH-3-4-in-to-3-in-Exhaust-and-Tailpipe-= Cutter-2031DD/205593288 You might also want to check with a local fence contractor. They likely = have additional options. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Jim Franklin Sent: Oct 29, 2026 12:58 PM To: Steven Trovato Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Pulling them up will destroy the neighbor's fence so that's not an option. = But I tried that with an 8' 2x4 out in front of the house where I do want = to remove the concrete, and the posts didn't budge. The fence is from the = 60s when concrete was cheap :-) jim ps - when the neighbor put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled up = engine blocks and transmissions that had been buried decades ago, so you = might not be far off with Volkswagens! On Oct 29, 2026, at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato = wrote: Jim,Unless the concrete blob is the size of a Volkswagen, you should be = able to pull the whole thing out of the ground without an excavator. There= are various approaches with a farm jack and a chain, a car jack or a very = long lever. Search for pulling fence posts on google or youtube. There = are a bunch of videos that should give you some ideas.-SteveAt 01:25 PM = 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin wrote:I need to cut down about 20 of these a few = inches below grade. The catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC = fence, so I can't get to that side. I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means = getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. = Do-able and at the top of the list so far. I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the concrete = blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but there = may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea = for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator. Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be= mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop = saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options. Angle grinder won't reach around the back. Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. Any other ideas? thanks, jim -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.www.= avast.com (http://www.avast.com/) ----_NmP-b57363a81a4b8784-Part_1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How about something like this?  A = fence post may be too thick, but there are similar options for heavier pipe= .

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GEARWRENCH-3-4-in-to-3-in-Exhaust-and-Tailpi= pe-Cutter-2031DD/205593288


You might also want to check with a local fence = contractor.  They likely have additional options.


Brian



-----Original = Message-----
From: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Sent: = Oct 29, 2026 12:58 PM
To: Steven Trovato <strovato@optonline.= net>
Cc: Shop-Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: = [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post?


Pulling them up will destroy the = neighbor's fence so that's not an option. But I tried that with an 8' 2x4 = out in front of the house where I do want to remove the concrete, and the = posts didn't budge. The fence is from the 60s when concrete was cheap = :-)

jim

ps - when the neighbor = put in his garage, the excavator guy pulled up engine blocks and = transmissions that had been buried decades ago, so you might not be far off= with Volkswagens!

On Oct 29, = 2026, at 2:13 PM, Steven Trovato <strovato@optonline.net> = wrote:

Jim,

Unless the concrete blob is the size of a = Volkswagen, you should be able to pull the whole thing out of the ground = without an excavator.  There are various approaches with a farm jack = and a chain, a car jack or a very long lever.  Search for pulling = fence posts on google or youtube.  There are a bunch of videos that = should give you some ideas.

-Steve

At 01:25 PM 10/29/2026, Jim Franklin = wrote:
I need to cut down = about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch is they are right = next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to that side.

I can = use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means getting= the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. Do-able= and at the top of the list so far.

I was going to rent an excavator= (still might) to also remove the concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch = of fill delivered (none on site but there may be some when they dig up the = driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor = exceeds the joy of having an excavator.

Portable bandsaw seems like = a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be mounted vertically to use = as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't = forthcoming on the viability of these options.

Angle grinder won't = reach around the back.

Plasma cutter is contraindicated with = neighbor's fence.

Any other ideas?

thanks,=
jim


-- =
This email has been checked for viruses by = Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.= com

----_NmP-b57363a81a4b8784-Part_1-- --===============3102044325945018154== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3102044325945018154==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 17:10:58 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01060A0CF6 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nexicom.net (unknown [216.168.96.4]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026AFA050A for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:06:34 -0600 (MDT) s=default; t=1793315168; bh=R8GcUYw6o98K+0NJBtlX3YsuwVAq5ri6rZRI6GvCZho=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date; b=TuKsMXhDcR8gIkQiBHYn8+pjsId0WK3ceKO6mX+yJBThIIzOKYoZIwKg0lwgwilQG lOIVpAjlXVjLNHxqFqB0iVyNbX0q3ahKMwgo+k4kgr1FWHoTvdvgnAsKS8ATysErNl gHXvMLWCwWK4da7dRN9JoE2hkh/poWP/aiE8OUztIuPbgpwtc8MYGPnn4T1lLujM5T wK8UaPXkyiuS4erBDVkJAAZYsEIRDldFPN3g4IPORZVZYZBtpNo4GUuFk8bxg+xPB7 Q49V7cMIka1tncjxdjC0bOmJxcQsWFT+Mvna1qAv5PcCAARoz5NQGczcW/NokXKp56 EP+UagASaasag== x-ip-name=24.231.94.136; Received: from DESKTOPASUS (unverified [24.231.94.136]) by nexicom.net (SurgeMail 6.6d) with ESMTP id 370049574-1712458 for multiple; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 19:06:01 -0400 From: "DArmstrong" To: "'Jim Franklin'" , "'Shop-Talk'" References: Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 19:06:00 -0400 Thread-Index: AQGBbqwKlflGCOXrOeBnInFasF0jV7fNFpfA Content-Language: en-ca Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net A portable plasma cutter? A handy tool to have for other jobs. -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Jim Franklin Sent: October 29, 2026 1:25 PM To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to that side. I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far. I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator. Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options. Angle grinder won't reach around the back. Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. Any other ideas? thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darmstrong@nexicom.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 18:59:34 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFB9A0D49 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 18:59:34 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-c2p-570110.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.102.19.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D28A0D28 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 18:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-c2p-555442.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.18.241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-c2p-570110.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id MWt9xkIkJ8WY3MasnxjtVW; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:54:13 +0000 d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20211018a; t=1793321653; bh=7k/8ttiC+sCnr8sivg1aZX7BjrR8AhEfAWnkScR+40Q=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To: Reply-To:From:Content-Type:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=MlcN0tIwy2EX0MmWmM0TWrm9UqFYrki7opTOOdtUDfPVUKoCgs4Cl+BgYFtYELxXX NhM9zl6xFTmrAlsOmJVpeFlW4Rz+PRTe2PtpCyy8+4eNOARADaX+6JhkJ3XHTODMws jmBeetsrddGWe57Me2EKXREByah01uYHEg/0MGTFGJOs5p7OWIl0PG8rYND6rXMDlB vAUWfWV2+BeU7TS9Qvzx1Tf7DIajYcw2P7doF6smn48BgPJDYAJA968IO+kPYBCu2Q Xb3GZj8zPFvWwctkCR5E/K3laLUFPitsGUOErUzkKqv+SR5KV/9lPuDjv5u0/OdB6h ExwTcUi6XCbKw== Received: from [10.0.0.60] ([24.7.44.192]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-c2p-555442.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id MaslxIIVnXk6tMasmxsK8m; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 00:54:13 +0000 Xfinity-QID: MaslxIIVnXk6tMasmxsK8m Xfinity-Graffiti: 92105280893 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 17:54:11 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Content-Language: en-US From: Mark Miller PWHCTR9bTP0S7t9XeiT/+PO7lB9cD2b5zasR0Mz9NQVzqFlSbdOPgCd6ah9G39ybavBpYcQSCd8yAiaOf6x+miI1Q+ftpKnfu5w= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? (Jim Franklin) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net A few thoughts: You could cut them with a sawzall with a long reasonably flexible blade bent to remain flat to and below the ground level. You could cut them with a sawzall at an angle and then come back with an angle grinder and then make the cut parallel to the ground once the rest of the post isn't in the way. It would be slower but an oscillating tool with a good carbide blade can get in from both sides with a cut quite close to the concrete below it. You could get/make a good heat shield to protect the fence and then use a torch. This looks to be the most potentially problematic but also the most fun. Regards, Mark Miller 707-490-5834 markmiller@threeboysfarm.com On 10/29/2026 11:00 AM, shop-talk-request@autox.team.net wrote: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 13:25:08 -0400 > From: Jim Franklin > To: Shop-Talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch is they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to that side. > > I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. Do-able and at the top of the list so far. > > I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the concrete blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but there may be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for a few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator. > > Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options. > > Angle grinder won't reach around the back. > > Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. > > Any other ideas? > > thanks, > jim > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 29 22:05:32 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA247A0B52 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 22:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from fhigh-a2-smtp.messagingengine.com (unknown [103.168.172.153]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354FBA0D6B for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 19:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phl-compute-08.internal (phl-compute-08.internal [10.202.2.48]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A975314000BD for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 21:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-frontend-04 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-08.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 29 Oct 2026 21:07:15 -0400 garrison-grafixx.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1793322435; x=1793408835; bh=HdpkZjBNms V1yLLK8C6dtj3xO6nUEGnkrgKxzdVGNuY=; b=2EzQkLmDAqL80VVDvjYyF3pVMe uXMzWyRGC4hdzThtxJUZ7tZjsukL1jyE57QE4Z4lh1Vd6Sy80w7bjE8SjBe5B6/f +MHpb+HcztMu/JlwqZ8BNQZkkD+e22ngIktf0JZYrqGn1SqYDtIuA6ThY8IvP4wY Bvfk3N1Q13EhD/B2rZ6z7jjCr8dgHh4+GoQU7tp8K9wj3AuzxWK1Bj98j0qbr8Mp DXzAQ/xVAgLlhGGQ7iASoQcYtPCZbnlGxP89nC816Zpwx81xbgbAVzAhrwT3YVEl YtYqpoKh8obHZ8HizNpdlgH32eM292q7dOwphJpIB6IJNIGJdie+ZXjXHaUQ== messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1793322435; x=1793408835; bh=H dpkZjBNmsV1yLLK8C6dtj3xO6nUEGnkrgKxzdVGNuY=; b=yO+64Bf4Ta6nzxmF4 P10lAgD9N1QEl4+3EfT1dBn6mfcFeXRJ3nz9WaY8XC/P8rJhbX7/gDzJkM5nAIO2 312ipy+KTbxGgw3Taa78xqlB98tRpCrfIY90sWDk/wVIj9/Bex7xohqKLbuYa4sf l2HeOsx8RK8DAi3yyc8IOFkmC7tEYdGHkNPaZWO4x8rJUTXh30vHoov0TfTHjYjx iWvMtvDafH17aOD/TDE8/1lu4g9W0WHldy0AUYn/Gf4ozdfnkqWSIlqf7xk7kfhf gI0zpHwN66pA/hUiReN62LJj7mZOkTGDCUfOYsi25SsaQ0ypksjzmIXppcIMgGag 9/tIA== action=sign d=garrison-grafixx.com a=rsa-sha256; mf=PGdlbmVAZ2Fycmlzb24tZ3JhZml4eC5jb20+; rt=PHNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldD4=; s=fm3:rsa-sha256:6HwavTDS9+TBB/7FaAkjzNFlMQCAGxFU/THe+9fYqoJaUpT Vl86I3z9EkhMO7zAPa5ExnaYjxq4e3K80Kyg4HgP7WOrNR+kt4GFaKOnsOqvqlc9 IHTC3CBmkJaHqVxVAvkcw0ghNalXTQ4xW4iE7eAPtxO3L5XJVbagH0Keod/InCN8 vsTMU/RL95H2qE9ZKyUN7KiSBL4uz99ZCHqnilw2VEvWhxJUeFhX3kAz6LW2W7zf HyAkPwh06dj/a3PPlLkbyLnhROizdiX3bSOXy6H5JBTLuv+zvS7oE6FaneZrB8Nj yBdUVQF/B4z7SlsIe7/6RE9s5Wt7AseA7W73swA==; action=mi-m=1; hc=13; hn=content-language,content-transfer-encoding,content-type,date, feedback-id,from,in-reply-to,message-id,mime-version,references, subject,to,user-agent; Message-Instance: m=1; h=sha256:IEctK4L6joKrYdMEOK8OztsQGrXlM5DXLX3eqsgoQ4g=:HaGMs9W1XP1l+/XoDvom9MFkEtIPzwSKcSN0zB9P8CU=; 7KPb2sRplD7jPEROYm39yWnyZnVpEkCvC75A6u7wZchjvHO8Fk18fB05G1BEW4JiNV1/gd EnTPMtOFsPPx9+NJ4RjRtSXitP1ylJi3RhDcWWeZ2/XHDaBvrQ8dsLSVcFjMHs84mH4iN+ tUfiQD9GaPR17rqIIwdu8mGLf7sQrmQGXFJrsReOKgKiDOgJxq29tDSH+SoNCoEghFQOeJ dKiF35elseAFQ5Y8vmZf1k1HD0Xjip9A4Hrx79G05CSTh4qbQd9FL2ghKRh3VOpJ/VVNHv QxzDqmSNuT+EaGHMbO6zqJMxreQlAgdtgFVk17IbTVJfs8xFEnNgAysnYyMbVL9n4or48C gLzqAWG6SbeI2HSV2/PLR75F4HXGLIBepbwioVYe6Ju2vEto9cLlOAbt+jstF2ejvrasv3 9FOPr+cRY5Wu5MLbcN/exPHPlqYp6dYgblxrAkAVzDqByraNzLkOA3hjrQ8QDJ+KGcSlB6 LgYsmdHKRlRGRNiKz/C5Hd59mu2vsvJQYN/ac/4E2hsdXNLqtCQvB48G5ffjAJQfJO0Wtt Ir7+XWnPb0UqFFc48ZRTCfni9FaJj33xlZhpubMdIqaUOMtyu/qEJ8IiPLWw Feedback-ID: ie44146e7:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2026 21:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 18:07:14 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6AE38A5E00009837@altprdrgo001.altice.prod.cloud.openwave.ai> Content-Language: en-US From: Gene Garrison Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net QW4gZW5naW5lIGhvaXN0IHdvcmtzIGdyZWF0Li4uCgotIEdlbmVHCgoKT24gMTAvMjkvMjYgMTE6 MTMgQU0sIFN0ZXZlbiBUcm92YXRvIHdyb3RlOgo+IEppbSwKPgo+IFVubGVzcyB0aGUgY29uY3Jl dGUgYmxvYiBpcyB0aGUgc2l6ZSBvZiBhIFZvbGtzd2FnZW4sIHlvdSBzaG91bGQgYmUgCj4gYWJs ZSB0byBwdWxsIHRoZSB3aG9sZSB0aGluZyBvdXQgb2YgdGhlIGdyb3VuZCB3aXRob3V0IGFuIGV4 Y2F2YXRvci7CoCAKPiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgdmFyaW91cyBhcHByb2FjaGVzIHdpdGggYSBmYXJtIGph Y2sgYW5kIGEgY2hhaW4sIGEgY2FyIGphY2sgCj4gb3IgYSB2ZXJ5IGxvbmcgbGV2ZXIuwqAgU2Vh cmNoIGZvciBwdWxsaW5nIGZlbmNlIHBvc3RzIG9uIGdvb2dsZSBvciAKPiB5b3V0dWJlLsKgIFRo ZXJlIGFyZSBhIGJ1bmNoIG9mIHZpZGVvcyB0aGF0IHNob3VsZCBnaXZlIHlvdSBzb21lIGlkZWFz Lgo+Cj4gLVN0ZXZlCj4KPiBBdCAwMToyNSBQTSAxMC8yOS8yMDI2LCBKaW0gRnJhbmtsaW4gd3Jv dGU6Cj4+IEkgbmVlZCB0byBjdXQgZG93biBhYm91dCAyMCBvZiB0aGVzZSBhIGZldyBpbmNoZXMg YmVsb3cgZ3JhZGUuIFRoZSAKPj4gY2F0Y2ggaXMgdGhleSBhcmUgcmlnaHQgbmV4dCB0byBteSBu ZWlnaGJvcidzIFBWQyBmZW5jZSwgc28gSSBjYW4ndCAKPj4gZ2V0IHRvIHRoYXQgc2lkZS4KPj4K Pj4gSSBjYW4gdXNlIG15IHNhd3phbGwgYnV0IEkgd2FudCB0aGUgY3V0IHBhcmFsbGVsIHRvIHRo ZSBncmFkZSB3aGljaCAKPj4gbWVhbnMgZ2V0dGluZyB0aGUgZW50aXJlIHNhd3phbGwgYmVsb3cg Z3JhZGUgYW5kIHN1Y2tpbmcgc2NobXV0eiBpbnRvIAo+PiB0aGUgbW90b3IuIERvLWFibGUgYW5k IGF0IHRoZSB0b3Agb2YgdGhlIGxpc3Qgc28gZmFyLgo+Pgo+PiBJIHdhcyBnb2luZyB0byByZW50 IGFuIGV4Y2F2YXRvciAoc3RpbGwgbWlnaHQpIHRvIGFsc28gcmVtb3ZlIHRoZSAKPj4gY29uY3Jl dGUgYmxvYiBidXQgdGhlbiBJJ2QgbmVlZCBhIGJ1bmNoIG9mIGZpbGwgZGVsaXZlcmVkIChub25l IG9uIAo+PiBzaXRlIGJ1dCB0aGVyZSBtYXkgYmUgc29tZSB3aGVuIHRoZXkgZGlnIHVwIHRoZSBk cml2ZXdheSB0byByZXBhdmUgCj4+IGl0LCBzaGVsdmluZyB0aGlzIGlkZWEgZm9yIGEgZmV3IHdl ZWtzKSwgaGFzc2xlIGZhY3RvciBleGNlZWRzIHRoZSAKPj4gam95IG9mIGhhdmluZyBhbiBleGNh dmF0b3IuCj4+Cj4+IFBvcnRhYmxlIGJhbmRzYXcgc2VlbXMgbGlrZSBhIHVzZWZ1bCBsaWZldGlt ZSB0b29sLCBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IGlmIGl0IAo+PiBjYW4gYmUgbW91bnRlZCB2ZXJ0aWNhbGx5IHRv IHVzZSBhcyBhIHJlZ3VsYXIgYmFuZHNhdyBhbmQgYWxzbyAKPj4gbW91bnRlZCBpbiBhIGNob3Ag c2F3IHRhYmxlLiBJbnRlcm5ldCBpc24ndCBmb3J0aGNvbWluZyBvbiB0aGUgCj4+IHZpYWJpbGl0 eSBvZiB0aGVzZSBvcHRpb25zLgo+Pgo+PiBBbmdsZSBncmluZGVyIHdvbid0IHJlYWNoIGFyb3Vu ZCB0aGUgYmFjay4KPj4KPj4gUGxhc21hIGN1dHRlciBpcyBjb250cmFpbmRpY2F0ZWQgd2l0aCBu ZWlnaGJvcidzIGZlbmNlLgo+Pgo+PiBBbnkgb3RoZXIgaWRlYXM/Cj4+Cj4+IHRoYW5rcywKPj4g amltCj4KPgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoK U2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25h dGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDov L3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9h cmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFu L29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 30 07:22:42 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9BFA0D6F for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 07:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk1-f174.google.com (unknown [209.85.221.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A6BA0CD4 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 06:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-vk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-5ea969fafeeso257790e0c.0 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 05:53:14 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1793364793; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; b=J1B9d9Udt9W8RYs2rw58FrmfEJaaYLis72mPc84HnVnODhHM6hAZDdPUzx9sflTw7x ZJM7KhZtKraTP1QOVQGaBdxZOgBjAvT9bCCql35PBnKCZr7AFYc2vB5Cg9rQU9iTSCY+ vL5momW9sjRdV1IDDTHJn2NMlRKNjYhqoVp87y9lxnpPO1WNiZRi32i0rZFEh5vfYkhV QRM/m6LOeCJeK/JEBIWyp/U4vU0HkIA0z6HaQn/qYM7dXx68Fv7jrjyRBTFyFcBl3d33 WmDri39GxTPgQkLcZ4FrWgQg1Wz0+fpEQ1EZBIepyk8qHaJkGDKunuvIYEogskDgWjvP 1cDw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version bh=UYpLi4tNjKFmmJF+blXJFISp9FujJeuDux60c0R4Xcw=; fh=zgzx55peAGDZ7wDtAswceEZuyxe4EG5UDbW41pMV0cs=; b=ezisDGpoJyvKVLocMbrz4PbNIlPH5wd5rg46RWpCaEsOQvCb1hiDtmr8GtndL5rZJG WrcK6sbJPQzks6WMmC1AaF/8dped8+UPuutrJpzkYTnwurmRV5t0gg/otD9CNYMKhpdd 86rBUti2n7lGboR1hch5ArM40SMWg2jmr1Ak1ULlDteldP2KXaywA4D1fzCWj7t4mlKl zmNJ0dG/30Ai+NTUaJ9xaHzsY5jUpD/EBK+iciXg/9lnq0JqAZcrmjPMGxtkBunVjxlb Ttk2b61Kzv6rhVHbPDnMruHPNbqbFupYct9bxgcwtg3fZcd7JlGaWQ9jXiOHCMU3BlKU l09Q==; darn=autox.team.net ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none d=gmail.com; s=20260707; t=1793364793; x=1793969593; darn=autox.team.net; h=content-type:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to :content-type; bh=UYpLi4tNjKFmmJF+blXJFISp9FujJeuDux60c0R4Xcw=; b=k3QzREx+/UB+MA46+scjdF1fK249183i1+Z+hD2xo4YdOp4i0Y6rKjCvDqzczXfJZX sGh/Z6XagQUeByjgmHuD/PYprCMRKkNMR2Mj3NEezDTzqsuf2Ftk3TBrruVxm6hsm5Xi WuvabrMbvgY/Nz1F+FHC9IlEN4RM+6QoeQaCGjDdruW4oauYBBX18PwZ3fDw1XrH6uBS Y6HwYnRHI8JIqhuNG5PAIieCWO7ji2PIzSf+xIls7N2Gv3fVfGewpu2Qq1StcFSguVA+ eH8ZFwHlzODrIVdrtkUsAU/KjCdbwdkghy/6WWxiZt37cZklmbR2iWNZMSnmbKPuDCTE tOQg== d=1e100.net; s=20260707; t=1793364793; x=1793969593; h=content-type:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=UYpLi4tNjKFmmJF+blXJFISp9FujJeuDux60c0R4Xcw=; b=nsEoUnDfYu31FoeDvbHqUgNi5V257MOdvvMEtYbgh774CAHhw/32ip9oDVmGtfB7A/ dq4iUmZ5L5VwDHmIJH7oLB7Z6RAwNl1eqofpxDAZcXIBXpyxPB0PFH7AZGM0bKvGK5qM 8soqQOIjEbUQVwLhrgJh8GHjGnnZ4FKoyU65XX69nl3h3PoZOXYP7LAl7P91zZm0y1tr 9JhHcDFBes2WbLxx7p2xYCR2XFyPbKhXjOW64f9/6LYLWta8KpNa9cFLQAHU/gqepvex bzZ5DcLzS1IbZlw/0xpDqF6noaczSQGskvDSapEdEvhBk7BXo/80jXadnWYO+ev+U0qv 9VOA== ByanRXmt2RuNh1HDeMbXhzKjbLLvSahXa9tzDkNxZx/JLN/OBECW4tV0hmeMJqSn8SODh2PE2z6 +51eXaoP0V2FnglSHE+TE5YyeD45ylL6ANA== RBAgarT4xTIaODJNmYS8GxwBNO51fS5qjTZ/0W/0o2XkloTsmZc8I2JU2NRYCxr6aYC8i/rNHbA yZ2lfA9FyJV2mo8p1necjWyCvPiEiEX9E57k1RcHIAY6dTePRhzXw502IKStND0D1NrtBnMHOSp 9rKJCKPx1U8b3wE9R3Q9I2bJIbQf4g62VWfHZ1n5ETnGc0WpW0Pif0Hw5oa0BJuWQPJ8bX7SnSk PISBshhpdcfc1vEsJDnGo1dnqzo3xOSXwPzcg13t/FgqpISEI7iUeNf/ZTPJcy7o5mSIv0TKril XsWpzXct22URWGVWq9RohN06M9IqYp9nZ7Oc= 71dfb90a1353d-5ec6893e16amr1081164e0c.16.1793364793444; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 05:53:13 -0700 (PDT) References: From: Mark Meany Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2026 08:53:02 -0400 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 126 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7559117458516960452== --000000000000774eb7065f0e470f Since this hasn't been mentioned yet, I thought I'd point out the peril in cutting galvanized pipe. I imagine the fumes created by a plasma cutter would be pretty dangerous and wonder whether the dust from a Sawzall might have issues too. It may be that the best option is an engine hoist (2 floor jacks?) connected to a rod sticking out on either side of holes poked into the post. Probably clearing the dirt out from on top of the concrete base would help. > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > . Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Steven Trovato) > 2. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Steven Trovato) > 3. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Brian Kemp) > 4. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (DArmstrong) > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Steven Trovato > To: Jim Franklin > Cc: Shop-Talk > Bcc: > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:36:42 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? > Well, in that case, the excavator is probably not an option either. > > At 03:55 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Jim > Franklin > Sent: October 29, 2026 1:25 PM > To: Shop-Talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? > > I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch is > they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to that > side. > > > I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means > getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor. > Do-able and at the top of the list so far. > > I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the concrete > blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but there > may > be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for > a > few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator. > > Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be > mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop > saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options. > > Angle grinder won't reach around the back. > > Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence. > > --000000000000774eb7065f0e470f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Since this hasn't been = mentioned yet, I thought I'd point out the peril in cutting galvanized = pipe. I imagine the fumes created by a plasma cutter would be pretty danger= ous and wonder whether the dust from a Sawzall might have issues too. It ma= y be that the best option is an engine hoist (2 floor jacks?) connected to = a rod sticking out on either side of holes poked into the post. Probably cl= earing the dirt out from on top of the concrete base would help.

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
. Re: Cutting = a chain link fence post? (Steven Trovato)
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Steven Trovato)
=C2=A0 =C2=A03. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Brian Kemp)
=C2=A0 =C2=A04. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (DArmstrong)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Steven Tr= ovato <strovato@optonline.net>
To:=C2=A0Jim Franklin <= ;jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Cc:=C2=A0Shop-Talk <shop-ta= lk@autox.team.net>
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:3= 6:42 -0400
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post= ?
Well, in that case, the excavator is probably not an option either.
At 03:55 =C2=A0




-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> = On Behalf Of Jim Franklin
Sent: October 29, 2026 1:25 PM
To: Shop-Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post?

I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch is=
they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to t= hat side.


I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which means getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the motor.<= br> Do-able and at the top of the list so far.

I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the concrete<= br> blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but ther= e may
be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea for = a
few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator.

Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can be=
mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a chop saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options= .

Angle grinder won't reach around the back.

Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence.

--000000000000774eb7065f0e470f-- --===============7559117458516960452== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7559117458516960452==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 30 07:55:13 2026 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBE3A0D62 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 07:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: autox.team.net; Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hognose1.porkbun.com (unknown [35.82.102.206]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7014A0D52 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 07:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [68.239.50.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by hognose1.porkbun.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB8D24626BC; Fri, 30 Oct 2026 13:42:17 +0000 (UTC) s=default; t=1793367738; bh=TDzPZ6d+W7M/0oZiGfCMJNzXud0WdMjmXSqokKnmGYE=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=u6tDQffZKsRJXKQa/mrB7BcoLaLx4aXgbHU2ntkpJ7ZSo0+dQ9a+0PyCcEJqPTluU URr3+16v8Sop+q/yx/Aq7j5L5Zq56BLRCjpitMEsIe4pXcIz9XC8G3cg8lkjr8AK1e qJmAzdtIFmezeYdzzcdAbeTjDiEnFmbukB28tiPI= From: Jim Franklin Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2026 09:42:06 -0400 To: Mark Meany References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 126 Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1572415347207317344== boundary="Apple-Mail=_79ABCDC7-FBE1-4CA7-8228-9BC6F647DEAB" --Apple-Mail=_79ABCDC7-FBE1-4CA7-8228-9BC6F647DEAB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii The plasma cutter also suffers from being too short, but yea the fume = thing is a big impediment. The sawzall didn't make much smoke, so I'm = not worried, and it turned out to live up to its name. About 5 minutes = per post, way easier than I expected, though I ran out of extension cord = and need another 50 footer. When I sold my last house in 2020 and swore = I'd never own a house again I gave away a large box of really good ones. = :-( Addressing another comment - I'm on good terms with my neighbor, another = reason I don't want to damage his fence. And he only put up the fence to = stop the 2-owners-ago creepy guy from staring at his wife & kids in the = pool.=20 Using a hoist to pull up the plug of concrete would damage the fence; = I'd have needed to dig a trench on the side and slide the whole mess = out.=20 That chain tailpipe cutter...interesting tool, might have worked. I did = think about a soil stack cutter as well. But 1/8" thick pipe might blow = out my forearms before I got one done.=20 Thanks for all the ideas.=20 jim > On Oct 30, 2026, at 8:53 AM, Mark Meany wrote: >=20 >=20 > Since this hasn't been mentioned yet, I thought I'd point out the = peril in cutting galvanized pipe. I imagine the fumes created by a = plasma cutter would be pretty dangerous and wonder whether the dust from = a Sawzall might have issues too. It may be that the best option is an = engine hoist (2 floor jacks?) connected to a rod sticking out on either = side of holes poked into the post. Probably clearing the dirt out from = on top of the concrete base would help. >>=20 >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> . Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Steven Trovato) >> 2. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Steven Trovato) >> 3. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Brian Kemp) >> 4. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (DArmstrong) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Steven Trovato > To: Jim Franklin > Cc: Shop-Talk > Bcc:=20 >> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:36:42 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? >> Well, in that case, the excavator is probably not an option either. >>=20 >> At 03:55 =20 >>>>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Shop-talk > Sent: October 29, 2026 1:25 PM >> To: Shop-Talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post? >>=20 >> I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The = catch is >> they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to = that side. >>=20 >>=20 >> I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which = means >> getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the = motor. >> Do-able and at the top of the list so far.=20 >>=20 >> I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the = concrete >> blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but = there may >> be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this = idea for a >> few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator.=20 >>=20 >> Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it = can be >> mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a = chop >> saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these = options.=20 >>=20 >> Angle grinder won't reach around the back. >>=20 >> Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence.=20 >>=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org >=20 --Apple-Mail=_79ABCDC7-FBE1-4CA7-8228-9BC6F647DEAB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii The plasma = cutter also suffers from being too short, but yea the fume thing is a = big impediment. The sawzall didn't make much smoke, so I'm not worried, = and it turned out to live up to its name. About 5 minutes per post, way = easier than I expected, though I ran out of extension cord and need = another 50 footer. When I sold my last house in 2020 and swore I'd never = own a house again I gave away a large box of really good ones. = :-(

Addressing another comment - I'm on good terms = with my neighbor, another reason I don't want to damage his fence. And = he only put up the fence to stop the 2-owners-ago creepy guy from = staring at his wife & kids in the = pool. 

Using a hoist to pull up the plug = of concrete would damage the fence; I'd have needed to dig a trench on = the side and slide the whole mess = out. 

That chain tailpipe = cutter...interesting tool, might have worked. I did think about a soil = stack cutter as well. But 1/8" thick pipe might blow out my forearms = before I got one done. 

Thanks for all the = ideas. 

jim

On Oct 30, 2026, at 8:53 AM, Mark Meany = <mmeany7@gmail.com> wrote:


Since this hasn't been mentioned yet, I thought I'd = point out the peril in cutting galvanized pipe. I imagine the fumes = created by a plasma cutter would be pretty dangerous and wonder whether = the dust from a Sawzall might have issues too. It may be that the best = option is an engine hoist (2 floor jacks?) connected to a rod sticking = out on either side of holes poked into the post. Probably clearing the = dirt out from on top of the concrete base would help.

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
. Re: = Cutting a chain link fence post? (Steven Trovato)
   2. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Steven = Trovato)
   3. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (Brian Kemp)
   4. Re: Cutting a chain link fence post? (DArmstrong)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Steven = Trovato <strovato@optonline.net>
To: Jim = Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Cc: Shop-Talk = <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Bcc: 
Date:=  Thu, 29 Oct 2026 16:36:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] = Cutting a chain link fence post?
Well, in that case, the excavator is = probably not an option either.

At 03:55  




-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of = Jim Franklin
Sent: October 29, 2026 1:25 PM
To: Shop-Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting a chain link fence post?

I need to cut down about 20 of these a few inches below grade. The catch = is
they are right next to my neighbor's PVC fence, so I can't get to that = side.


I can use my sawzall but I want the cut parallel to the grade which = means
getting the entire sawzall below grade and sucking schmutz into the = motor.
Do-able and at the top of the list so far.

I was going to rent an excavator (still might) to also remove the = concrete
blob but then I'd need a bunch of fill delivered (none on site but there = may
be some when they dig up the driveway to repave it, shelving this idea = for a
few weeks), hassle factor exceeds the joy of having an excavator.

Portable bandsaw seems like a useful lifetime tool, especially if it can = be
mounted vertically to use as a regular bandsaw and also mounted in a = chop
saw table. Internet isn't forthcoming on the viability of these options. =

Angle grinder won't reach around the back.

Plasma cutter is contraindicated with neighbor's fence.

= _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.tea= m.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual = donation  $12.96
Archive: = http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org
=

= --Apple-Mail=_79ABCDC7-FBE1-4CA7-8228-9BC6F647DEAB-- --===============1572415347207317344== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1572415347207317344==--