From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 03:21:34 2010 From: Mark J Bradakis To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fools and Funding No, this is not a political rant about the scoundrels on Capitol Hill. I'll rant about that elsewhere, probably the prattle forum on the Team.Net forums. For the moment, though, consider this my annual State of Team.Net speech. It is getting sent out on All Fool's Day. More on that in a bit. Back in April of 1991 the domain team.net was registered. We are 19 years old this month. Of course there were a few years before then that email was just sent to various places as the lists were in their infancy. The patriarch of the family was SOL, the Scions of Lucas, thanks to Dale Cook and Jim Muller. Now there are over 60 Team.Net email lists, and about 14,000 subscribers scattered about the planet. And 19 years old describes my age when I moved to Salt Lake City, a young lad looking for adventure in the mountains through climbing and skiing. And many an adventure was to be had. The biggest was no doubt the Weird Winter Wall trip of 1977. I really need to write that up, get a bunch of the slides digitized to share with others. The short version is that I am amazingly lucky to still be alive. It was April 1st, 1977 when the four of us, hungry and exhausted, demoralized and chilled to the bone sat on a mountainside in the Wind Rivers and watched the sun come up. Sunrises are always beautiful, but to this day those first faintly glowing streaks of red, orange and gold have never looked so welcome as on that morning. We knew we'd make it, we'd see more sunrises. It seems appropriate that we returned to civilization on April Fool's day. A winter ascent of the North Face of Mt. Hooker seems a fool's errand in hindsight. But I survived. And Team.Net has survived. There have certainly been many times over the years when I've felt the fool for putting in the effort to keep it going. Just hitting the off switch and walking away would have been so easy. But far more prominent are the occasions where a well crafted message, an unsolicited thank you or donation, a T shirt or some trinket unexpectedly showing up at my doorstep makes me realize what a treasure Team.Net has been over the years. There are untold old classics out there still on the road, thanks to you folks. Sure, you may have never turned a wrench on them, or pushed them in or out of the garage, but the technical support provided, along with the email equivalent of a friendly smile and a heartfelt pat on the back has kept folks going. They've taken that fool's errand of a hopeless restoration and brought it back from near death to see another sunrise. If you see fit, please make use of the information provided at http://www.team.net/donate.html mjb. "But look, the morn in russet mantle clad walks o'er the dew of yon high eastward hill" Hamlet, Wm. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 17:33:22 2010 From: "wsamouce" To: "'Tiger email list'" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:53:24 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/001.jpg http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/002-1.jpg Believe it or not, found this on Craigs List. From the build sheet and blueprint information I received, the seller had $4600 into this short block. I got it for less than half of that. Will not even think of installation in my Tiger before spring next year. I have many more parts to buy. I also have lots of searching to do so that install goes without a hitch. More pictures with specifics soon. Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 1 23:04:57 2010 From: Sandy Ganz To: wsamouce Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 21:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness Nice another Tiger getting a proper engine! Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: wsamouce To: Tiger email list Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 3:53:24 PM Subject: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/001.jpg http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/002-1.jpg Believe it or not, found this on Craigs List. From the build sheet and blueprint information I received, the seller had $4600 into this short block. I got it for less than half of that. Will not even think of installation in my Tiger before spring next year. I have many more parts to buy. I also have lots of searching to do so that install goes without a hitch. More pictures with specifics soon. Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sganz@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 00:48:26 2010 From: drmayf To: Sandy Ganz Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:46:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness Good Evening, Sandy.. Interesting comment you made...just what might be considered a "proper engine".... I have been thinking that that might be a 363 CID World Products Man-O- War with AFR 225 cc heads, 9.5 comp turbo of course, lol.... what are you up to these days? mayf Sandy Ganz wrote: >Nice another Tiger getting a proper engine! > >Sandy > > > >----- Original Message >---- >From: wsamouce >To: Tiger email list > >Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 3:53:24 PM >Subject: [Tigers] >A little 347 goodness >http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/001.jpg >http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/002-1.jpg > >Believe it or not, >found this on Craigs List. From the build sheet and >blueprint information I >received, the seller had $4600 into this short >block. I got it for less than >half of that. > >Will not even think of installation in my Tiger before spring >next year. I >have many more parts to buy. I also have lots of searching to >do so that >install goes without a hitch. > >More pictures with specifics soon. >Duke >B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 06:52:12 2010 From: Dave Munroe To: drmayf@mayfco.com, Sandy Ganz Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:15:02 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness Mayf; Sandy; I like your perspectives.....! ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "Sandy Ganz" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 2:46 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness > Good Evening, Sandy.. > Interesting comment you made...just what might be considered a "proper > engine".... I have been thinking that that might be a 363 CID World > Products Man-O- War with AFR 225 cc heads, 9.5 comp turbo of course, > lol.... > > what are you up to these days? > > mayf > Sandy Ganz wrote: > >>Nice another Tiger getting a proper engine! >> >>Sandy >> >> >> >>----- Original Message >>---- >>From: wsamouce >>To: Tiger email list >> >>Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 3:53:24 PM >>Subject: [Tigers] >>A little 347 goodness >>http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/001.jpg >>http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/002-1.jpg >> >>Believe it or not, >>found this on Craigs List. From the build sheet and >>blueprint information I >>received, the seller had $4600 into this short >>block. I got it for less than >>half of that. >> >>Will not even think of installation in my Tiger before spring >>next year. I >>have many more parts to buy. I also have lots of searching to >>do so that >>install goes without a hitch. >> >>More pictures with specifics soon. >>Duke >>B382002037 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dave@munroe.ca _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 08:33:13 2010 From: George Re To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 13:56:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Fwd: Color ? and side clip ? ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "George Re" To: tiger@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, April 2, 2010 9:55:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Color ? and side clip ? Hello I know this has been asked before and I save the notes BUT I can not find my notes. Does anyone have the modern paint code for the BRG color? and also what clips and be used on the side moldings? Thanks Again George _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 09:36:46 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'George Re'" , Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:58:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fwd: Color ? and side clip ? George I don't have a modern paint code for BRG; you could try contacting Dale's Shop or Doug Jennings. These are the numbers I have for BRG; one may help you: Ditzler # 43313 Lucite # 8421LH Dulux # 97191 Chrysler # 75242857 Berger code 404.2106 Side molding clips Sunbeam Specialties carries them and probably Classic Sunbeam Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Re Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 9:57 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Fwd: Color ? and side clip ? ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "George Re" To: tiger@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, April 2, 2010 9:55:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Color ? and side clip ? Hello I know this has been asked before and I save the notes BUT I can not find my notes. Does anyone have the modern paint code for the BRG color? and also what clips and be used on the side moldings? Thanks Again George _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2783 - Release Date: 04/02/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 2 18:04:29 2010 From: Rollright@aol.com To: wsamouce@kc.rr.com, tigers@Autox.Team.Net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 19:08:41 EDT Subject: [Tigers] engine Duke, What a buy and what a monster ! It'll go sideways in each gear. Lucky you! Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 01:27:27 2010 From: "A. C. Tynes" To: "'wsamouce'" , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:35:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness Duke, That's beautiful - I'd love to be there when you start it for the first time. Feel free to ignore the rest of this since you probably already know it, but just in case, here are a couple of comments. I expect that the paperwork with the engine shows how it was balanced - internally to zero or externally to 28 or 50 ounce/inches. That will determine what kind of flywheel and crankshaft balancer to use. You may want to think about converting to a serpentine belt system. The 96+ Explorer system supposedly shortens your engine by about 1.5 inches in front. This is what I am using on my Tracker and I can send you some pictures and measurements if you like. (The engine is in my garage ready to be disassembled, so it would be no trouble.) In any event, congratulations, you lucky, uhm, guy. Best regards, A. C. Tynes > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wsamouce > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 5:53 PM > To: 'Tiger email list' > Subject: [Tigers] A little 347 goodness > > http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/001.jpg > > http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/002-1.jpg > > Believe it or not, found this on Craigs List. From the build > sheet and blueprint information I received, the seller had > $4600 into this short block. I got it for less than half of that. > > Will not even think of installation in my Tiger before spring > next year. I have many more parts to buy. I also have lots > of searching to do so that install goes without a hitch. > > More pictures with specifics soon. > > Duke > B382002037 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/v8tracker@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 15:09:57 2010 From: "Clyde McLaughlin" To: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 16:21:47 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] body mldg clips Hi Listers, I tried using the VW clips, didn't work on my MK1A, got ones from SS and they worked correctly, anyone want some free VW ones, I have a hole box, Clyde _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 16:40:55 2010 From: "Mountjoy" To: , "Steve Laifman" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:03:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Hagerty Chris- See my message to Steve ! Darrell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Thompson" To: "Steve Laifman" Cc: ; "Mountjoy" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:15 PM Subject: Hagerty > Hagerty (who insures my car collection) also seems to like the Tiger - > > http://www.hagerty.com/lifestyle/hobby_article.aspx?id=64810 > > Steve Laifman wrote: >> Tigers, >> >> I just went to Hagerty's site and asked for a >> quote for "Stated Value" $50,000 for my '65 Mk I and $25,000 for my 2005 >> Thunderbird. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 17:44:39 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Clyde McLaughlin'" , Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:51:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] body mldg clips Clyde Don't be too hasty about VW clips. I know I sent you a part number about this with a disclaimer that I did not know if it was correct number or not; it was not, my apologies. VW plastic clip 113-853-585C; VW 67 - 81 Auveco list this as part #10322 is the number I sent out; it is wrong but it was the only part I found in the Auveco catalog that looked similar to SS part. The VW part number is 155-853-585. This is the number Rande sent out and a Google search gives a picture very much like the part SS sells. Part numbers are important; always check them to make sure everyone is talking about the same part. Thank you Rande for providing a better number. When in doubt buy from the Sunbeam dealers; they have the correct parts and we need to support them. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Clyde McLaughlin Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 4:22 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] body mldg clips Hi Listers, I tried using the VW clips, didn't work on my MK1A, got ones from SS and they worked correctly, anyone want some free VW ones, I have a hole box, Clyde _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2785 - Release Date: 04/02/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 18:13:25 2010 From: David T Johnson To: tigers@autox.team.net, rande@thecia.net Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 16:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Chrome H/L rims and mldg clips When I will put my side molding back on, I do what an old CAT tip recommended. Go down to the hardware store and buy small stainless machine screws whose head fits in the molding lot. Put the molding in place and slide the screws until you get to their hole. I added nuts with split ring washers and washers. I finger tightened verything until I was happy. Once happy I conched the nutts but not so hard to hurt the paint. You can get to all the nuts from inside the car. The only one that was a problem was the small strip on the front fender. I used a SS type fasteners I got at a VW dealer. New time I may use nylon machine screws. Their nuts look like they won't looser. Dave --- On Sat, 4/3/10, rande wrote: From: rande Subject: [Tigers] Chrome H/L rims and mldg clips To: tigers@autox.team.net Cc: alpines@autox.team.net Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 4:26 PM First, someone was looking for a source for Tiger side moulding fasteners. Assuming you're not looking for the very original rivets, and are drilling holes in the position the rivets were originally, one source, of course, is Rick at Sunbeam Specialties. If for some reason you can't wait for Rick's to ship, there's another local source. A very nice clip was used on most of the models of 1975 and 1976 Volkswagen Rabbits sold in the U.S. The VW part number is 155-853-585. It's identical to Ricks, with the added benefit that it has a rubber o-ring that, when pressed in, will seal against the hole that was drilled. I keep them in the same bin at home that I have Rick's. As for the individual (hanjan?), I thought their response was a little too categorical about chrome headlight rims without attribution, so I asked Brian Postle of Sunbeam Spares (and STOC). His own car, #605 (one of the Hartwell Six), has painted rims ( it was Orchid Green, now a metallic blue), but numbers 633 and 632 both have chrome headlight rims. These are, respectively, the highest and second highest I.D. number cars, near the very end of production. He said, as far as he could tell, he thought all Mark II's originally used the painted rim. Someone pointed out to me that there was just one part number in the January 1968 parts catalog covering 'first production Mark II' and the last 1,200 Alpine V's!!!!. No supercessions, no optional numbers, no 'second production Mark II'. As a side note, a seller from Quebec recently auctioned off a pair of slightly marred NOS chrome rims for $333.25. Ouch. I asked the seller, before the end of the auction, what the part number on these NOS rims was. He said they didn't come in a Rootes/Chrysler or Lucas package, but he quoted the Rootes number from the catalog. In other words, he didn't know. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/djoh797014@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 3 18:14:37 2010 From: michael king To: rande@thecia.net Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 09:37:38 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Chrome H/L rims and mldg clips > As a side note, a seller from Quebec recently auctioned off a pair of > slightly > marred NOS chrome rims for $333.25. Ouch. I asked the seller, before the > end > of the auction, what the part number on these NOS rims was. He said they > didn't > come in a Rootes/Chrysler or Lucas package, but he quoted the Rootes number > from the catalog. In other words, he didn't know. That price for the "MKII" rims was not to bad given recent prices.. as for being MKII.. we know they are the same casting but wrong finish. I have NOS chrome and painted in primer MKII rims, they both share the same part numbers on the back of the rim, that seller should have been able to give you the nu,ber off the rim. to see pics go to : http://catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=169 -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 5 15:32:21 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: David T Johnson Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 12:41:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Chrome H/L rims and mldg clips David, and Tigers (Alpines too, if this gets through to them - Maybe David can forward it) In this back-and-forth about fasteners, it awoke my memory. I purchased some stainless small screw, nuts, washers and split lock washers. I seem to recall 10-40, but check your existing holes. By careful filing, I made the head into a square, thin shape and thickness, that fit the rear most stainless slot access hole. Since these side pieces have an enlarged hole in the track back-side to install the original studs, I could insert the squared heads and then slide it into position where the fender/door holes are. I did this for every position that was accessible from the rear. The stainless nuts and washers were tightened snugly (not hard) with a small wrench or socket, from inside the car or trunk. Works great. Strips won't fall off in jarring over a rough road. Rust doesn't happen. That doesn't mean the original sheet metal won't rust, but painting the hole before installation can help. Steve David T Johnson wrote: > When I will put my side molding back on, I do what an old > CAT tip recommended. Go down to the hardware store and buy > small stainless machine screws whose head fits in the > molding lot. > > Put the molding in place and slide the screws until you > get to their hole. I added nuts with split ring washers and > washers. I finger tightened verything until I was happy. > Once happy I conched the nutts but not so hard to > hurt the paint. > > You can get to all the nuts from inside the car. The only > one that was a problem was the small strip on the front > fender. I used a SS type fasteners I got at a VW dealer. > > New time I may use nylon machine screws. Their > nuts look like they won't looser. > > Dave _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 13:06:58 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Tiger email list Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] just a test haven't seen anything in days _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 13:57:52 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: Steve Ralsten , Tiger email list Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 13:20:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] just a test Hi Steve, I read you. Agree it has been quiet... Subject: [Tigers] just a test haven't seen anything in days _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 13:59:15 2010 From: Marc James Small To: Steve Ralsten , Tiger email list Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:27:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] just a test At 01:22 PM 4/7/2010, Steve Ralsten wrote: >haven't seen anything in days Didn't we tell you that you had been purged? Ah, so much for the efficiency of Internet communications! Marc msmall@aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 14:43:05 2010 From: Drjev To: Steve Ralsten , Tiger email list Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 12:13:28 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Subject: Re: [Tigers] just a test Got it here too. Thinkin the same this morning. John -------Original Message------- From: Cullen McCann Date: 4/7/2010 11:58:25 AM To: Steve Ralsten; Tiger email list Subject: Re: [Tigers] just a test Hi Steve, I read you. Agree it has been quiet... Subject: [Tigers] just a test haven't seen anything in days _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team net/mailman/options/tigers/drjev@dccnet.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of stampa_girl_line_en.gif] _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 14:59:16 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 12:23:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] just a test >>> haven't seen anything in days<<< With the tax deadline rapidly approaching (USA) possibly our hands, brains and potentially our wallets are exhaust. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 14:59:23 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tiger's Den Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 12:29:23 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How to Build a REAL tiger! Many thanks to Mark L. (CoolVT@AOL.com) for sending a private enclosure to a great movie, which I cannot enclose to the list. It shows an artist painting images on the backs of nude models. You cannot see a view the model's front, so it could be rated PG. They then "assemble" themselves to show a great image of a Tiger head - in 3D. (3.1 MB WMV attachment). If Mark has an internet link to this movie, I am sure many Tiger Owners would like to see it. No objectionable (to some) views. However, I do have a Great Bookmark showing a Tiger head in lenticular 3D. Bought it for $5 while waiting for a prescription to be filled. AND it is GRRRRAETE! There were plenty of others, such as all our Planets in 3D. The link to the Artist/image is: http://www.magneticbookmark.com/shop/SiteSpecific/magneticbookmark/Upload/Products/16020.jpg and: http://www.magneticbookmark.com/shop/SiteSpecific/magneticbookmark/Upload/Products/16023.jpg Very Entertaining. Much better to hang on your mirror than "Fuzzy Dice" Steve _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 15:43:04 2010 From: m_dangelo@verizon.net To: s_ralsten@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 15:24:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tigers] Engine Installation Techniques. Re: just a test _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 15:58:36 2010 From: "Jim Boynton" To: "Tigers " Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 16:34:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] speed bleeders Has anyone used or installed the speed bleeders that I have seen for sale on ebay? _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 16:27:49 2010 From: Steve Sage To: Jim Boynton , tigers@Autox.Team.Net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:14:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] speed bleeders On 4/7/2010 1:34 PM, Jim Boynton wrote: > Has anyone used or installed the speed bleeders that I have seen for sale on > ebay? > Hello Jim: I haven't installed them on my brakes yet as I haven't had a need to bleed them yet. I have installed it on my clutch slave and it works great. The slave cylinder is usually difficult to get all the air out from, but the speed bleeder made it an easy job. Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14730 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 16:41:50 2010 From: "Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:20:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Motif Badge Retention Anyone have issues with the re-pop motif badges (Sunbeam V-8) not staying on? I bought the badges, motifs and little clips from SS and have lost one badge with the other two being loose. The clips seem to open up and the plastic tangs just slide out. I am considering using a soldering iron to flatten the backs of the plastic tangs once installed, although this is not what I would consider ideal. Any suggestions? Bugz _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 17:18:56 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: tigers@autox.team.net, " Mark \(GE Indust ConsInd\)Rense" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motif Badge Retention Mark- They make a glue just for holdng trim, badges etc to the car. Im not 100% but I believe there is a type that can be removed without damaging the paint if removing an item becomes necessary. Im sure it is sold by different dealers and independent retailers as well. Perhaps a member with previous experience might add more information. TtT --- On Wed, 4/7/10, Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) wrote: From: Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) Subject: [Tigers] Motif Badge Retention To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 4:20 PM Anyone have issues with the re-pop motif badges (Sunbeam V-8) not staying on? I bought the badges, motifs and little clips from SS and have lost one badge with the other two being loose. The clips seem to open up and the plastic tangs just slide out. I am considering using a soldering iron to flatten the backs of the plastic tangs once installed, although this is not what I would consider ideal. Any suggestions? Bugz _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 17:19:48 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Steve Ralsten , Tiger email list Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 17:55:46 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally On a related topic, has anyone used a motorcycle jack to remove and reinstall the cross member? I understand there is some difficulty in balancing it on a normal jack. Being two parallel flat surfaces on the motorcycle/ATV jack, it seems like it might make the job easier. Anyone? Thanks a lot! On 4/7/10 1:22 PM, "Steve Ralsten" wrote: > haven't seen anything in days > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 17:48:30 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Rense, Mark \(GE Indust, ConsInd\)'" , Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 18:08:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motif Badge Retention Bugz The re-pop motif badge holders are plastic? Are the barrel clips plastic or metal? I like to remove those badges now an then for cleaning. I might try gorilla snot first; you know that weather-strip contact cement that's hard to get off your fingers. Maybe a tight brass tube over the plastic tangs would give a better grip. Hard to say without parts in hand. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:20 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Motif Badge Retention Anyone have issues with the re-pop motif badges (Sunbeam V-8) not staying on? I bought the badges, motifs and little clips from SS and have lost one badge with the other two being loose. The clips seem to open up and the plastic tangs just slide out. I am considering using a soldering iron to flatten the backs of the plastic tangs once installed, although this is not what I would consider ideal. Any suggestions? Bugz _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2794 - Release Date: 04/07/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 18:43:27 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: MAURO D'ANGELO , Tiger email list Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:55:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Removing the engine out the top can be done, just barely, if you have stock valve covers and oil pan. If you have taller valve covers, aluminum heads, and/or a road race pan with kickouts, then the engine will not go out the top without removing the crossmember. Removing the engine out the top also requires a hoist with a more-than-average amount of reach, and you'll at some point have a 500 pound assembly dangling six or seven feet in the air, above your car. Lots of potential for damage and personal injury if anything should go even slightly wrong, and things could go from slightly wrong to very wrong in a heartbeat. To remove the engine and transmission from underneath, you need to raise the entire car off the ground. 12 to 15" jackstands will do for the rear axle, but in front you need to eventually have the car high enough that the engine assembly can go either underneath the front valence or out through the fenderwell opening (there is more clearance there). I've done mine twice out and in through the bottom. Tried out the top, once, but that failed due to the oversize oil pan. I usually support the rear of the car under the leaf spring perches on the rear axle. I jack up the front of the car and support it under the forward outside ends of the X frame under the car. I remove the front suspension with rack attached as a unit after removing the wheel. Some people do it with wheels attached but I find it more manageable without the extra mass attached. I use a 1x6 that spans across the crossmember, basically from one fulcrum pin to the other, to lower the crossmember after removing the attaching bolts, disconnecting the steering U-joint, and the brake line. With the crossmember out of the way, and the rad removed, I disconnect the exhaust and loosen the headers. Support the engine (hood removed) from above with the hoist, then remove the engine mounts and the transmission mount (support the transmission with a jack from underneath) and take off the headers. Remove the shift linkage from inside the car. Then the engine can be slid forward and up, to get the tailshaft out of the center of the X member, then lower the tail of the transmission, then everything goes back a little to get the nose of the engine clear of the radiator crossmember and you can set the engine on the floor. It's preferable to set the engine on a rolling cradle that can support its weight... a creeper isn't good enough. At this point I use the hoist to pick up the front of the car and raise it higher to reset the jackstands, and then I can get the engine out the side or front of the car. (and in the finest Haynes manual fashion:) Installation is the reverse of removal. Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO > Sent: April 7, 2010 3:56 PM > To: Steve Ralsten; Tiger email list > Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test > > Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or > information. > I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and > install > engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that > the > procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, > removing > the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then > hoisting the > engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty > doable. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 18:43:41 2010 From: michael king To: "MAURO D'ANGELO" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:57:31 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test > The workshop manual shows that the > procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, > removing > the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting > the > engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. > Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so > difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? Mauro... are you taking the pi$$? have you seen the picture n the WSM of the engine coming out the top of the car? Its like a cherry picker.. you have to life the car that high... for a point in case.. thats how you take the engine out of an alpine... use this link to see how easy that is.. http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2475513130054462410ohkwjg http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2053145830054462410TCfGoq http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2465933670054462410XKISct then think of the size difference/firewall issues with the tiger. drop the front cross member and slide the bugger out. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:16:17 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: MAURO D'ANGELO , Tiger email list Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 18:22:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test I run a chain from one crossmember bolt location (underneath the frame rail) to the corresponding crossmember bolt location on the other frame rail, and then use the hoist on the chain to pick up the car. The reason for doing this is that in the process of removing the engine from the car, it's not helpful if the car is jacked way up in the air... you end up doing about half the work from above, and the other half from below, so if the nose is 'way up there, it's just hard to do the from-the-top stuff. Cheers, Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: MAURO D'ANGELO [mailto:m_dangelo@verizon.net] > Sent: April 7, 2010 5:16 PM > To: Smit, Theo; Tiger email list > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a > test > > Theo, Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. I have two > questions. > First, where do you connect the hoist to the body to lift it? Second, > why > do you have to reset the jack stands? Thanks a lot. Mauro > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:16:29 2010 From: David Sosna To: Tigers Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:20:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] speed bleeders Hi Jim: Can't remember if I had 'em on my Tiger, but I've used 'em on my Miata and on my Toyota Pickup for both brakes and clutch. I like 'em a lot. There is a caveat--they're sold with some goop already on the threads--and a tube (or somesuch) of additional goop. Presumably the thread sealant wears off with time and use of the bleeders. So far I haven't had a problem with it. I'd highly recommend the system. Best Regards David Sosna Tigerless but still lurking Jim Boynton wrote: > Has anyone used or installed the speed bleeders that I have seen for sale on > ebay? > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:16:55 2010 From: David Sosna To: Tiger email list Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:35:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Hi Mauro: Mostly, it's that the engine and transmission together are looooong. So you need a lot of room above the car for them to dangle. And without a high-bay working area, it's easier to pull it out the bottom. If you've got a high-bay area, I don't see it as much of a problem, but my garage is only 8' high, with a gyp-board ceiling (condo above the garage), so I pulled the engine out the bottom. Best Regards David Sosna MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > Why is doing it from the top so > difficult? > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:17:01 2010 From: "Scott Hutchinson" To: , , Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 19:40:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test When I did it I took it out the bottom. Wasn't bad at all. I used a strap that I wrapped around the cowling braces and lifted the body. Take lots of pictures along the way so you know how to put it back together. I placed a board on the jack when I removed the cross member. I seem to recall I left the wheels on it and just rolled it out from under the front of the car. The car is on stands at that point. Then you jack the engine and unbolt it and the tranny and slide the whole package out through the left front wheel well. Somewhere there was a step by step list on how to do it. I think the issue with taking it out the top is vertical lift clearance. Have fun. ;). Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations NetJets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 *** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:45:09 2010 From: Rob Guerra To: MAURO D'ANGELO Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:10:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques a few years back I posted a link to an engine removal tech tip I wrote for the stoa newsletter (march 05). Here is a link to a copy of that newsletter http://tigerengineering.net/stoa/download.htm hope this helps On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:55 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. > I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install > engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the > procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing > the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the > engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. > Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so > difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I > understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both > front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that > out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the > transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not > have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the > weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to > the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of > the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where > and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands > going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and > where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back > under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the > only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't > use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 19:46:50 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: , "'Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)'" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 20:14:18 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger All Four Wheels Up? Maybe I've led a really sheltered life, but I have only ever had a car on jackstands one axle at a time (either front of the car or the rear). I think I read somewhere that you should not put both axles on stands at the same time. Is this true? Is this dangerous? Has anyone ever had a Tiger on four jackstands at the same time? Is that safe? If this is possible, what's the best way to do it? Just curious. Thanks. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 20:15:56 2010 From: "Curt" To: "MAURO D'ANGELO" , "Tiger email list" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:24:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test There are all kinds of articles written on this subject and I remember writing one in the 80s. I have done both and strongly favor the lower method. I've done the lower way about 5 times. The once I did the upper way it scared the bejeezus out of me. The from the top requires a lot of head room with the engine way up in the air to clear the car. The tranny is generally attached and it is a long piece to get up and over the body with no damage. The lower method keeps everything relatively low to the ground and can be done in a low ceiling garage. I hike up the body with a hoist attached to a chain bolted to the body with the cross member bolts (actually similar ones from a hardware store) screwed in from teh top into the same holes. I leave the wheels on the cross member and just roll out the cross member supported on a jack. A motorcycle jack would work well I assume. I have one now but have not used it. I always just used a floor jack, but I didn't have the MC jack at the time. Next time I'll try it. Curt Hoffman ----- Original Message ----- From: "MAURO D'ANGELO" To: "Steve Ralsten" ; "Tiger email list" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:55 PM Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test > Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or > information. > I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install > engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that > the > procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, > removing > the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting > the > engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. > Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so > difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I > understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or > both > front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that > out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the > transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do > not > have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the > weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all > to > the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out > of > the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where > and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack > stands > going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and > where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is > back > under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the > only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't > use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally > > On a related topic, has anyone used a motorcycle jack to remove and > reinstall the cross member? I understand there is some difficulty in > balancing it on a normal jack. Being two parallel flat surfaces on the > motorcycle/ATV jack, it seems like it might make the job easier. Anyone? > Thanks a lot! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 20:16:58 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Rob Guerra Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 20:26:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Rob, Thanks. I saved a copy of that. In the article, you mention that you would explain re-installation in a later issue. Would it be possible to have a link to that article too? Thanks! Mauro On 4/7/10 8:10 PM, "Rob Guerra" wrote: > a few years back I posted a link to an engine removal tech tip I wrote for > the stoa newsletter (march 05). Here is a link to a copy of that newsletter > > http://tigerengineering.net/stoa/download.htm > > hope this helps > > > On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:55 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > >> Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. >> I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install >> engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the >> procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing >> the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the >> engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. >> Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so >> difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I >> understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both >> front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that >> out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the >> transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not >> have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the >> weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to >> the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of >> the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where >> and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands >> going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and >> where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back >> under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the >> only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't >> use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 20:47:46 2010 From: "Baker, Kent" To: "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:54:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Sheet Metal and Sunbeam Supreme Third time trying to get this posted - I wondered what happened to the list. I apologize for asking again, but the acid dip is done, and it is time to replace the floorboards and boot floor. The current ones are not horrible, but there is enough pin hole rust down in the bottom of the foot wells to justify replacing them. I have tried many resources for new replacement floorboards, but no luck finding a pair. If anyone has a last guess who I might contact, it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, come next week, I will have to have a shop make a pair using the old ones as a templates, and that is going to be pricey but they will do it. One other option is Sunbeam Supreme in the UK. They seem to have a selection of sheet metal and other Tiger parts. Has anyone used them before? Thanks, Kent Baker '66 MKIA San Diego _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:49:16 2010 From: michael king To: "Baker, Kent" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 11:56:28 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sheet Metal and Sunbeam Supreme i think there is a guy named willet? with an email of oneoffive or somethig liek that.. he posts stuff on ebay often and is on the CAT board. He seems to have a selection of panels in stock, there maybe some connection to rob martell.. or there was (i could be wrong) but he seemed to keep a selection of parts. I know of sources in australia.. but given our AU$ is high at the moment. might not help someone in the USA.. but if you wer interested i can speak t the guy with patterns here. Another option would be Jan Sevities from the SAOCA boards.. On 8 April 2010 10:54, Baker, Kent wrote: > Third time trying to get this posted - I wondered what happened to the > list. > > I apologize for asking again, but the acid dip is done, and it is time to > replace the floorboards and boot floor. The current ones are not horrible, > but there is enough pin hole rust down in the bottom of the foot wells to > justify replacing them. I have tried many resources for new replacement > floorboards, but no luck finding a pair. If anyone has a last guess who I > might contact, it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, come next week, > I > will have to have a shop make a pair using the old ones as a templates, and > that is going to be pricey but they will do it. > > One other option is Sunbeam Supreme in the UK. They seem to have a > selection > of sheet metal and other Tiger parts. Has anyone used them before? > > Thanks, > > Kent Baker > '66 MKIA > San Diego > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:49:44 2010 From: "Arden Bedell" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:06:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sheet Metal and Sunbeam Supreme I've bought panels from them; a front valence and lower rear fender patch panels. They were good quality and the service was excellent, but shipping from the U.K. is spendy. However, in the absence of alternatives, you have to go where you have to. -- Arden _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:49:48 2010 From: "wsamouce" To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , "'Rob Guerra'" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:08:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Has anyone tried putting weight in the trunk to help with lifting the body over the engine? I would think that 300lbs would do the trick and then you would not require to lift the front. Duke B382002037 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:26 PM To: Rob Guerra Cc: Tiger email list Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Rob, Thanks. I saved a copy of that. In the article, you mention that you would explain re-installation in a later issue. Would it be possible to have a link to that article too? Thanks! Mauro On 4/7/10 8:10 PM, "Rob Guerra" wrote: > a few years back I posted a link to an engine removal tech tip I wrote for > the stoa newsletter (march 05). Here is a link to a copy of that newsletter > > http://tigerengineering.net/stoa/download.htm > > hope this helps > > > On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:55 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > >> Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. >> I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install >> engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the >> procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing >> the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the >> engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. >> Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so >> difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I >> understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both >> front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that >> out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the >> transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not >> have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the >> weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to >> the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of >> the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where >> and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands >> going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and >> where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back >> under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the >> only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't >> use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:50:41 2010 From: "Curt" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 22:12:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger All Four Wheels Up? My Tigers (I've had 3) have spent most of their lives up on stands with both front and rear on jack stands. It's the only way to go to work under cars. Can't imagine what would be any different than one axle at a time in terms of safety. Curt Hoffman ----- Original Message ----- From: "MAURO D'ANGELO" To: ; "'Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)'" ; Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:14 PM Subject: [Tigers] Tiger All Four Wheels Up? > Maybe I've led a really sheltered life, but I have only ever had a car on > jackstands one axle at a time (either front of the car or the rear). I > think I read somewhere that you should not put both axles on stands at the > same time. Is this true? Is this dangerous? Has anyone ever had a Tiger > on four jackstands at the same time? Is that safe? If this is possible, > what's the best way to do it? Just curious. Thanks. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:51:24 2010 From: gabbardalex@att.net To: MAURO D'ANGELO , Rob Guerra Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 02:17:54 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques The easy way: engine removal: 1. block up engine & trans as the car sits; use U shaped wood buck around oil pan. 2. disconnect drive shaft, trans & engine mounts, all lines, radiator hoses, exhaust-to-body couplings, etc 3. unbolt cross member 4. three strong guys lift front of car over engine, roll back done it! takes about 30 minutes engine installation: reverse of above done it! The easy way Alex Gabbard own 2 Tigers, 1 Alpine for about 40 years; parted out 1 Tiger, 1 Alpine -------------- Original message from MAURO D'ANGELO : -------------- > Rob, > > Thanks. I saved a copy of that. In the article, you mention that you would > explain re-installation in a later issue. Would it be possible to have a > link to that article too? Thanks! Mauro > > > On 4/7/10 8:10 PM, "Rob Guerra" wrote: > > > a few years back I posted a link to an engine removal tech tip I wrote for > > the stoa newsletter (march 05). Here is a link to a copy of that newsletter > > > > http://tigerengineering.net/stoa/download.htm > > > > hope this helps > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:55 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > > > >> Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. > >> I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install > >> engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the > >> procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing > >> the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the > >> engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. > >> Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so > >> difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I > >> understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both > >> front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that > >> out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the > >> transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not > >> have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the > >> weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to > >> the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of > >> the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where > >> and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands > >> going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and > >> where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back > >> under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the > >> only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't > >> use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/gabbardalex@att.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 21:52:23 2010 From: MWood24020@aol.com To: m_dangelo@verizon.net, bomber44@comcast.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 22:17:49 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Not to single out Mauro, who is asking a question all of us who've pulled the drivetrain out of our Tigers have contemplated, but isn't all of this type of stuff related to common procedures archived somewhere and (fairly) readily available? Seems that it would make sense, if it isn't being done already. btw, Mauro, putting a car on four jack stands, in and of itself is not dangerous. But, in the case of the Tiger, the balance point moves so far back after removing the engine and ancillary items that you will have a situation where you need to be careful...you literally can elevate the front end with one finger, if the rear jack stands are still under the rear axle. :-) In a message dated 4/7/2010 6:17:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, m_dangelo@verizon.net writes: Rob, Thanks. I saved a copy of that. In the article, you mention that you would explain re-installation in a later issue. Would it be possible to have a link to that article too? Thanks! Mauro On 4/7/10 8:10 PM, "Rob Guerra" wrote: > a few years back I posted a link to an engine removal tech tip I wrote for > the stoa newsletter (march 05). Here is a link to a copy of that newsletter > > http://tigerengineering.net/stoa/download.htm > > hope this helps > > > On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:55 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > >> Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. >> I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install >> engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the >> procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing >> the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the >> engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. >> Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so >> difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I >> understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both >> front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that >> out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the >> transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not >> have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the >> weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to >> the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of >> the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where >> and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands >> going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and >> where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back >> under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the >> only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't >> use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 22:19:40 2010 From: Jeffers To: m_dangelo@verizon.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 21:42:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] All Four Wheels Up? Mauro I set this email out to to 2 list members about 2 years ago. I'll resend it to you so you can see the pictures. Tom It appears there are as many different ways to remove the engine as people who have done it. I have done this twice in the last year or so and I can share some pictures. Put the car up on jack stands about 16 to 20 inches and keep it level. See pictures. I have found that a piece of plywood about 20 inches square will balance the front cross member and still allow you to remove and replace the bolts. The balance point is easier to find with the cross member out so have several people helping when you remove it the first time. Again see pictures. When I lowered the engine and transmission to the ground I put it on 2 car dollys. See picture. I had to put a block of wood on the dolly under the oilpan to keep the front of the pan off the floor. You want it as close to the floor as possible and able to swivel 90 degrees to remove it from the wheel well. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 100_1248.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 100_1249.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 100_1252.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of IMG_3536.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of IMG_3537.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of S4300129.JPG] _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 22:44:53 2010 From: "Buck Trippel" To: "wsamouce" , "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 20:04:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Duke, That's Dan Walters' standard m.o. I think 200lbs will do it. Dan removes Tiger engines by himself in a little over 2 hours. No cherry picker - just a scissors jack and his custom engine dolly. The scissor is mainly used under the X-frame. Buck ----- Original Message ----- From: "wsamouce" To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" ; "'Rob Guerra'" Cc: "'Tiger email list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques > Has anyone tried putting weight in the trunk to help with lifting the body > over the engine? I would think that 300lbs would do the trick and then > you > would not require to lift the front. > > Duke > B382002037 > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:26 PM > To: Rob Guerra > Cc: Tiger email list > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques > > Rob, > > Thanks. I saved a copy of that. In the article, you mention that you > would > explain re-installation in a later issue. Would it be possible to have a > link to that article too? Thanks! Mauro > > > On 4/7/10 8:10 PM, "Rob Guerra" wrote: > >> a few years back I posted a link to an engine removal tech tip I wrote > for >> the stoa newsletter (march 05). Here is a link to a copy of that > newsletter >> >> http://tigerengineering.net/stoa/download.htm >> >> hope this helps >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:55 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: >> >>> Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or > information. >>> I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and > install >>> engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that > the >>> procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, > removing >>> the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting > the >>> engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty >>> doable. >>> Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top > so >>> difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, > I >>> understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or > both >>> front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With > that >>> out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the >>> transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do > not >>> have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift >>> the >>> weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it >>> all > to >>> the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough >>> out > of >>> the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? >>> Where >>> and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack > stands >>> going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and >>> where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is > back >>> under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the >>> only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you >>> can't >>> use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bucktrippel@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 7 22:46:00 2010 From: "Ramon Spontelli" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 20:09:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques <> Geez people! What's wrong with the old-fashioned/Missionary Position? From above? Just leave the tranny and bell housing in the car. If you want or need the tranny out too, then it's a snap with the engine out. Ramon _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 00:17:26 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , "'Steve Ralsten'" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 00:22:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Mauro The manual shows an engine picker that you might as well call a crane and you will need about 20' of clear head room to pull it out the top. Not impossible but maybe depending on your garage. Wow, it has been a very long time since I pulled the engine/ tran out the bottom. I removed the crossmember, exhaust, carb, valve covers, radiator, fan, pulleys, water pump, generator, oil filter system and bumpers. I had a very low dolly with a wood engine cradle. I lowered the body and engine onto the dolly and disconnected the engine mounts. A friend of mine happened to stop by at this time and we picked the front of the body up, pivoting on the rear wheels, roll it back off the engine. I reversed this procedure to install the engine. Use every convenience you have on hand to make the engine removal and installation as painless as possible. Ron -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:56 PM To: Steve Ralsten; Tiger email list Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally On a related topic, has anyone used a motorcycle jack to remove and reinstall the cross member? I understand there is some difficulty in balancing it on a normal jack. Being two parallel flat surfaces on the motorcycle/ATV jack, it seems like it might make the job easier. Anyone? Thanks a lot! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 00:18:33 2010 From: michael king To: Buck Trippel Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 14:29:54 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques On 8 April 2010 13:04, Buck Trippel wrote: > Duke, > > That's Dan Walters' standard m.o. I think 200lbs will do it. > > Dan removes Tiger engines by himself in a little over 2 hours. > No cherry picker - just a scissors jack and his custom engine dolly. > The scissor is mainly used under the X-frame. > > Buck > I think there was a pictorial review of the *"down and out"* method in the CAT newsletter last year -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 00:18:52 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , "'Rense, Mark \(GE Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 00:38:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger All Four Wheels Up? Mauro It can be dangerous to have a vehicle on 2 or 4 jack stands. It totally depends on how and where you place the jack stands. You must have sufficient weight on each jack so the vehicle does not rock. You must also have good jack stands. I have 4 that are rated at 5000 lbs each. I will not even consider some of the sheet metal jack stands I have seen on the market. Yes I have had the Tiger up on 4 jack stands. You simply have to be safety conscious when you do this. I also keep my 2 3/4 ton floor jack raised to a lifting point, just in case something slips. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: MAURO D'ANGELO [mailto:m_dangelo@verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:14 PM To: rfraser@bluefrog.com; 'Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)'; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Tiger All Four Wheels Up? Maybe I've led a really sheltered life, but I have only ever had a car on jackstands one axle at a time (either front of the car or the rear). I think I read somewhere that you should not put both axles on stands at the same time. Is this true? Is this dangerous? Has anyone ever had a Tiger on four jackstands at the same time? Is that safe? If this is possible, what's the best way to do it? Just curious. Thanks. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2794 - Release Date: 04/07/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 00:45:13 2010 From: Cliff Alexander To: Jim Boynton , Tigers Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:54:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] speed bleeders I recently put one on the rear brakes, as I had the axle out to install a posi, and found that it worked great. I'm waiting to install the fronts until needed. I bought a set manufactured by Russell from Summit Racing. As you probably already know the threat size is 3/8" X 24. Cliff On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Jim Boynton wrote: > Has anyone used or installed the speed bleeders that I have seen for sale > on > ebay? > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mk1a67@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 00:46:02 2010 From: Cliff Alexander To: Tiger List Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:59:00 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fwd: Rootes Comps Department All-- I'm resending this because I didn't see it in my messages. Sorry if it's a duplicate. Cliff ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Cliff Alexander Date: Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:32 PM Subject: Rootes Comps Department To: Tiger List All-- I picked up a copy of the March 2010 Classic & Sports Car magazine and found a nice article titled The Garrads of Humber Road. It has quite a few vintage pictures and an interview with the family. Cliff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 01:15:31 2010 From: michael king To: rfraser@bluefrog.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:23:31 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger All Four Wheels Up? > Yes I have had the Tiger up on 4 jack stands. You simply have to be > safety conscious when you do this. I also keep my 2 3/4 ton floor jack > raised to a lifting point, just in case something slips. > > unless you have the cars wheels off ramps can be used.. i have had the car on all 4 with ramps.. if you have it on axel stands, wheels off.. place some old tyres on their side under the car so if it falls it might give you a chance. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 02:59:49 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 00:29:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger All Four Wheels Up? >>> Has anyone ever had a Tiger on four jackstands at the same time?<<< Six years and counting. It makes a great space to store all the parts I never have the time or money to install. FYI, I had my Turbo Coupe up on two jackstands (rearend dropped and lying on the ground) during the Northridge earthquake and its numerous aftershocks. I'm about 15 miles from the epicenter and it never toppeled. Jackstands - like real estate, location, Location, LOCATION. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 06:14:26 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Cliff Alexander , Tiger List Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 06:47:38 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Here is the Solution to Disappearing Message Content! Cliff, You may remember I was having the problem that none of my messages were showing up (to the point that some wise guy said something like he's heard of being a man a few words but I was being ridiculous). I researched the problem and HERE IS THE SOLUTION: USE ONLY PLAIN TEXT! If you are using Outlook or Entourage, go to format and remove any HTML formatting. I use Verizon and, when using web mail services, I think that defaults to HTML formatting too. In fact, I sent a message yesterday from web mail and it did not show up. I hope that helps everyone who's having this problem. It stinks when you spend a lot of time writing deep thoughts and they never show up. I suppose it could be viewed as a form of therapy, but it's still frustrating! Maybe they should update and upgrade the message server to accept HTML formatting. Until then, just do not use anything but plain text in your messages. Mauro On 4/8/10 12:59 AM, "Cliff Alexander" wrote: > All-- I'm resending this because I didn't see it in my messages. Sorry if > it's a duplicate. > Cliff > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Cliff Alexander > Date: Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:32 PM > Subject: Rootes Comps Department > To: Tiger List > > > All-- I picked up a copy of the March 2010 Classic & Sports Car magazine > and found a nice article titled The Garrads of Humber Road. It has quite a > few vintage pictures and an interview with the family. > Cliff > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 06:59:36 2010 From: "rande" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 07:26:21 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] is userlist doa, and jack stands 1/ If you thought the list was dead yesterday, what do you think this morning? 57 postings overnight for me, almost all Tiger folks.It's working. 2/ Four jack stands. For me, that's most of the time. Two just in front of the rear lower valance about four feet apart. Two in front on the flat area just behind where the wheel wells are, on each side. Drivetrain is out, crossmember, suspension/wheels and complete rear axle still on car. I only take it down when I have to reposition the car to move around stuff in front of it. For safety reasons, I'll add support from a floor jack on the end I'm working underneath if I'm hammering anything. And my stands are cast iron. I don't have a hoist, and I like the ground clearance I get from the stands when I'm trying to save time by having the stands already tested and in place. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 07:43:05 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: gabbardalex@att.net, m_dangelo@verizon.net, bomber44@comcast.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:26:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques LOL, it takes me 30 minutes to disconnect the hoses and pull my radiator out. Mark In a message dated 4/7/2010 10:51:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gabbardalex@att.net writes: The easy way: engine removal: 1. block up engine & trans as the car sits; use U shaped wood buck around oil pan. 2. disconnect drive shaft, trans & engine mounts, all lines, radiator hoses, exhaust-to-body couplings, etc 3. unbolt cross member 4. three strong guys lift front of car over engine, roll back done it! takes about 30 minutes engine installation: reverse of above done it! The easy way Alex Gabbard own 2 Tigers, 1 Alpine for about 40 years; parted out 1 Tiger, 1 Alpine -------------- Original message from MAURO D'ANGELO : -------------- > Rob, > > Thanks. I saved a copy of that. In the article, you mention that you would > explain re-installation in a later issue. Would it be possible to have a > link to that article too? Thanks! Mauro > > > On 4/7/10 8:10 PM, "Rob Guerra" wrote: > > > a few years back I posted a link to an engine removal tech tip I wrote for > > the stoa newsletter (march 05). Here is a link to a copy of that newsletter > > > > http://tigerengineering.net/stoa/download.htm > > > > hope this helps > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2010, at 2:55 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > > > >> Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. > >> I noted that lots of people say that the easiest way to remove and install > >> engines into Tigers is from the bottom. The workshop manual shows that the > >> procedure is basically putting the front of the car on jack stands, removing > >> the hood and disconnecting a bunch of ancillary parts, and then hoisting the > >> engine together with the transmission from the top. Seems pretty doable. > >> Obviously, there are things I don't know. Why is doing it from the top so > >> difficult? What are the negatives to the factory way? From the bottom, I > >> understand the car should be put up on jack stands (only the front, or both > >> front and back?), and the front cross member should be removed. With that > >> out of the way, the engine should drop onto a dolly(s) with the > >> transmission. In theory, I understand this, but there are details I do not > >> have. First, I am assuming that a hoist will still be needed to lift the > >> weight of the engine to unbolt the engine mounts and then to lower it all to > >> the dolly. Is this correct? Second, how do you lift the body enough out of > >> the way to be able to roll the engine/tranny out from under there? Where > >> and how do you connect the hoist? Or...is having the car up on jack stands > >> going to give enough clearance? How tall should the jack stands be and > >> where should they be placed, exactly? Third, when the engine/tranny is back > >> under the car (having lifted the car again to get enough clearance), the > >> only way to lift it up is with an engine hoist, right? I mean, you can't > >> use a jack to lift the engine off the dolly, can you? Finally > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/gabbardalex@att.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 07:59:50 2010 From: "Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)" To: "MAURO D'ANGELO" , "Tiger email list" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:39:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Mauro, I just removed the engine from one of my cars two weeks ago in preparation for the body shop. You really need to search all the Sunbeam sites, I amassed quite a few articles which I then compiled into a collection of wisdom. The short answer here is that I followed the bottom-out technique as per Theo's suggestions. It took me about four hours including re-installing the crossmember, I was by myself and I took my time to document. I used a 2 ton hoist and a transmission jack. The transmission jack is also very handy for crossmember removal, as you can strap it on to keep it from rotating as you unbolt it from the chassis. I set the engine down onto a low furniture moving dolly, ran a chain between the crossmember bolts, hoisted the body up and wheeled the engine/tranny straight out. Bugz -----Original Message----- From: MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:56 PM To: Steve Ralsten; Tiger email list Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 08:45:47 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:13:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] is userlist doa, and jack stands Rande The key word here is safety. Always be safety conscious when you jack up any vehicle. I know I have been in a hurry with this at times. I've had floor jacks slip and I've been under cars when I noticed that a jack stand is leaning at an angle. Time to stop and reset the jack stands. Always think safety and work safely and use heavy duty jack stands and equipment. The life or limb you save might just be your own. For the most part I'm working alone and if anything went really wrong I probably would not be found in time. I therefore work as safely as I can, use good equipment and good common sense whenever I'm under a vehicle. Safety first and always Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of rande Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 7:26 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] is userlist doa, and jack stands 1/ If you thought the list was dead yesterday, what do you think this morning? 57 postings overnight for me, almost all Tiger folks.It's working. 2/ Four jack stands. For me, that's most of the time. Two just in front of the rear lower valance about four feet apart. Two in front on the flat area just behind where the wheel wells are, on each side. Drivetrain is out, crossmember, suspension/wheels and complete rear axle still on car. I only take it down when I have to reposition the car to move around stuff in front of it. For safety reasons, I'll add support from a floor jack on the end I'm working underneath if I'm hammering anything. And my stands are cast iron. I don't have a hoist, and I like the ground clearance I get from the stands when I'm trying to save time by having the stands already tested and in place. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2796 - Release Date: 04/07/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 09:19:21 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mark.rense@ge.com, m_dangelo@verizon.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:45:56 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test With the talk of engine dollies and the like, I might suggest that you build one or more of your own. If you ever hit flea markets look for dolly wheels with grease fittings. With fittings they will normally have bearings and will have a capacity of around 500 lb . per wheel. Nail/screw 3 pcs. of 1/2" plywood together and attach wheels (good place to use up your scrap plywood). You will have a dolly that will support any engine/transmission or support the front of your Tiger when the crossmember is removed. Build it longer if you want and it can even be used to support the engine and transmission. For an engine support I used 2x6" pcs of wood measured to fit the rim of the oil pan and mounted these to 1'2" plywood and then screwed that contraption to the above mentioned dolly. When finished with the engine, I unscrewed the contraption and had the dolly for other uses. Mark L In a message dated 4/8/2010 9:00:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mark.rense@ge.com writes: Mauro, I just removed the engine from one of my cars two weeks ago in preparation for the body shop. You really need to search all the Sunbeam sites, I amassed quite a few articles which I then compiled into a collection of wisdom. The short answer here is that I followed the bottom-out technique as per Theo's suggestions. It took me about four hours including re-installing the crossmember, I was by myself and I took my time to document. I used a 2 ton hoist and a transmission jack. The transmission jack is also very handy for crossmember removal, as you can strap it on to keep it from rotating as you unbolt it from the chassis. I set the engine down onto a low furniture moving dolly, ran a chain between the crossmember bolts, hoisted the body up and wheeled the engine/tranny straight out. Bugz -----Original Message----- From: MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:56 PM To: Steve Ralsten; Tiger email list Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 10:20:14 2010 From: "Lynn Wall" To: , , , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 07:35:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test I could not agree more. I made a dolly for the crossmember. Best idea I have ever had since the center of gravity is inconveniently located in mid air. This can be made fairly high. I even added a centering "socket" for my jack. I just roll the jack in place and lift. Second best idea I had was to make a dolly for the engine. Make this one as low as possible so that you need to lift the car as little as possible. This is also a great work platform depending on what you are working on. I made mine stout enough to serve as a "run-in" stand for breaking in my motors before installing in the car. It paid for itself when I discovered the leaky rear main before I installed it in the car. The couple of hours required to make these two items will save you may more in my opinion. Good luck and keep some bandages close by. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:46 AM To: mark.rense@ge.com; m_dangelo@verizon.net; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test With the talk of engine dollies and the like, I might suggest that you build one or more of your own. If you ever hit flea markets look for dolly wheels with grease fittings. With fittings they will normally have bearings and will have a capacity of around 500 lb . per wheel. Nail/screw 3 pcs. of 1/2" plywood together and attach wheels (good place to use up your scrap plywood). You will have a dolly that will support any engine/transmission or support the front of your Tiger when the crossmember is removed. Build it longer if you want and it can even be used to support the engine and transmission. For an engine support I used 2x6" pcs of wood measured to fit the rim of the oil pan and mounted these to 1'2" plywood and then screwed that contraption to the above mentioned dolly. When finished with the engine, I unscrewed the contraption and had the dolly for other uses. Mark L In a message dated 4/8/2010 9:00:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mark.rense@ge.com writes: Mauro, I just removed the engine from one of my cars two weeks ago in preparation for the body shop. You really need to search all the Sunbeam sites, I amassed quite a few articles which I then compiled into a collection of wisdom. The short answer here is that I followed the bottom-out technique as per Theo's suggestions. It took me about four hours including re-installing the crossmember, I was by myself and I took my time to document. I used a 2 ton hoist and a transmission jack. The transmission jack is also very handy for crossmember removal, as you can strap it on to keep it from rotating as you unbolt it from the chassis. I set the engine down onto a low furniture moving dolly, ran a chain between the crossmember bolts, hoisted the body up and wheeled the engine/tranny straight out. Bugz -----Original Message----- From: MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:56 PM To: Steve Ralsten; Tiger email list Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Well, Steve, you asked for it! I am looking for advice and/or information. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/cars@wt-inc.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 10:20:26 2010 From: Carmods@aol.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:35:50 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Pulling an engine from a Tiger is like a religion. Once someone excepts and practices it a certain way, it generally becomes the only way. I am not trying to convert anyone, just explain why I do it from the top. I pretty much follow the Manual procedure except I don't remove the steering rack or washer bottle. You need the following; * The ability to jack the car up temporarily 2 feet high in the front and drop it after the tailshaft clears the tunnel. * A chain-fall with a hook that will go at least 6 ft off the ground. * A short lifting sling. * A come-a-long to level the engine once it clears the tunnel and is above the radiator support. .Here are some of the reasons why I pull from the top * I don't have to remove and reinstall the wheels. * I don't have to remove and reinstall the front crossmember. * I don't have to remove, then reinstall the steering column and realign the wheels. * I don't have to disconnect brake lines and then have to connect and bleed them. * I only need to disconnect and tie up the fuel line. * After the engine is out I can safely roll, steer and stop the car on all four of its wheels out of the way anytime I want without jacks or blocks. * I don't have to lift and roll the freshly restored body around without front wheels and risk dropping a it. This has happened in our family! * I can do the whole job by myself without help. John Logan _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 11:21:06 2010 From: Tod Brown To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:47:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Jack Stands, etc. There have been times when I have had my Tiger up on four jack stands. As someone else said, it is all about location, location, location and keeping it level. If you take a wheel off, put it under the car. Better the car lands on the wheel than your head. Just be careful. Someone on the list once suggested using two standard Sunbeam jacks to lift the end of the car. DO NOT TRY THIS! The channels into which the jacks slide can easily be rotated, causing the car to come crashing down. I once, long ago, thought this would be a clever way to get one end of the car off the ground. I don't know what I was thinking. Luckily, all it cost was some extra detergent to wash my underwear. It is always best to use a sturdy floor jack and jack stands. I have a two car garage which is oversized, so I can squeeze three cars in it (during the Maine winter, which, as everyone knows, is 9 months long) if I put the Tiger in crosswise (and the GTI longitudinally). To do that, I have acquired a set of dollies and put them under the Tiger's wheels. I can, with some effort, move the Tiger around on the dollies. It also gets the Tiger up in the air enough so I can slide under a ways without having to put it up on stands. Very convenient for doing stuff underneath during the long winter days and nights. I haven't tried it, but having the car on the dollies might make it a bit easier to take the engine and gearbox out the bottom. I have also seen various designs for home-made engine dollies, often made from 2 x 6's and plywood. They work fine. The wheels off super market carts are ideal. In Maine, you can often liberate the remains of a shopping cart from the snow bank after the plow has cleared the parking lot at WalMart or Home Depot, ;>) Tod B382002384LRXFE _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 14:16:59 2010 From: "Patrick" To: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:42:44 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Front axle Hi gang This is probably a rather unusual question that I have. A friend of mine had a accident with his tiger and needed a new front axle. Since I had one left I gave it away. Now he asked me how much I ask for it. I have no idea, that's why I'm asking you guys. How much can I ask for??? Thanks patrick _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 14:48:53 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:15:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Years ago I was at Smitty's to pick up my Tiger. He had welded a contraption that bolted to the front end of a Tiger that had the engine, trans and crossmember out. It was basically 1/2" or 3/4" square tubing with about 3" caster wheels attached. It sure looked funny, but the car moved around like it was a shopping cart. David Sosna, I think you know what I'm talking about. It sure saves the trouble of putting the crossmember back in just to move the car about. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 15:19:34 2010 From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:22:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Fw: oil pipe adapter? - correction To correct my note from Mar 23: the Tiger remote oil pipes attach to the block adapter with INVERTED FLARE fittings not BSPP. I was able to source them locally. Just needed to talk to the right person. :') Paul On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:17 AM, wrote: Hi Gents, The Tiger remote oil pipe attaches to the block adapter with BSPP (British Standard Pipe Parallel) fittings. I want to use the OEM block adapter because my old CAT headers are 1" from the block. Does anyone have a source for an adapter to change this to a NPT or dash8 which is common today? thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 15:22:23 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: MAURO D'ANGELO Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:42:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Here is the Solution to Disappearing Message Content! Mauro, There is yet another option. I use "Thunderbird" (free from Mozilla), and it allows sending in "Plain Text", "HTML", or both as an option. I usually use "Both" if I am sending a message to the List and also direct e-mail. Works fine. :-) Steve MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > Cliff, > > You may remember I was having the problem that none of my messages were > showing up (to the point that some wise guy said something like he's heard > of being a man a few words but I was being ridiculous). I researched the > problem and HERE IS THE SOLUTION: > > USE ONLY PLAIN TEXT! > > If you are using Outlook or Entourage, go to format and remove any HTML > formatting. I use Verizon and, when using web mail services, I think that > defaults to HTML formatting too. In fact, I sent a message yesterday from > web mail and it did not show up. > > I hope that helps everyone who's having this problem. It stinks when you > spend a lot of time writing deep thoughts and they never show up. I suppose > it could be viewed as a form of therapy, but it's still frustrating! Maybe > they should update and upgrade the message server to accept HTML formatting. > Until then, just do not use anything but plain text in your messages. > > Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 16:20:08 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 13:41:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front axle A few years back I got a complete set of (two each) spindles (front axle as you call it), rotor/hubs, calipers, backing plates and wheel bearings for $80. All I needed at the time was one spindle, but the "package" was all I could find. Shortly there after I found another spindle for $25. I also recall someone offering me a single spindle for $100. So, quite a broad range ($25-$100). How good of a friend is it you have??? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick" To: Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:42 AM Subject: [Tigers] Front axle > Hi gang > > This is probably a rather unusual question that I have. A friend of mine > had > a accident with his tiger and needed a new front axle. Since I had one > left > I gave it away. Now he asked me how much I ask for it. I have no idea, > that's why I'm asking you guys. > > How much can I ask for??? > > Thanks > > patrick > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@verizon.net > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2798 - Release Date: 04/08/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 16:21:01 2010 From: "Will Seay" To: "Jim Boynton" , "Tigers " Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:52:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] speed bleeders Jim, I got a set of speed bleeders from the guy on ebay. According to him, you need three flavors of bleeders: one for front, one for rear, and one for clutch. They all have the same thread on them and I'm sure Girling had only one P/N for all. The ebay guy recognizes that you only need one bleeder for the rear, so a set for the car would be 2 front, 1 rear, 1, clutch. The set that he sent me included two bleeders for the rear instead of just one. That was fortunate because I found that the bleeders he supplied for the rear worked better on the front. The front bleeders work fine in the rear, and I haven't installed a bleeder for the clutch yet. The bleeders that he supplied for front were longer than those for the rear - don't know why. The long bleeders have a clearance problem, interfereing with the hose fitting on the caliper assembly. The shorter (for rear) bleeders had less of a clearance problem. I still found that I had to use an open-end wrench for the front bleeders because there was no clearance for a normal tubing wrench. All that said, the bleeders worked great after I did my front/rear swap. I also found it useful to temporarily install a bleader on the output side of the brake servo to bleed the servo. Will Seay ____________________ wseay@embarqmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Boynton" To: "Tigers " Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 4:34 PM Subject: [Tigers] speed bleeders > Has anyone used or installed the speed bleeders that I have seen for sale > on > ebay? > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 16:47:34 2010 From: David Sosna To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 14:03:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Re: just a test Hi Tom: I do. Don't know if I have any pictures around though. Had itty-bitty wheels--Okay for rolling around the shop, but probably not so good for asphalt. A lot to go through for a one-time deal (well, maybe not so much, but then I don't know how to weld--grin), but for somebody who works on Tigers and/or Alpines a lot and has to drop the crossmember regularly, it's pretty convenient. Best Regards David Thomas Witt wrote: > Years ago I was at Smitty's to pick up my Tiger. He had welded a > contraption that bolted to the front end of a Tiger that had the > engine, trans and crossmember out. It was basically 1/2" or 3/4" > square tubing with about 3" caster wheels attached. It sure looked > funny, but the car moved around like it was a shopping cart. David > Sosna, I think you know what I'm talking about. > > It sure saves the trouble of putting the crossmember back in just to > move the car about. > > Tom _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting@cox.net > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5011 (20100408) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5011 (20100408) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 18:20:20 2010 From: michael king To: Thomas Witt Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 08:31:17 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front axle On 9 April 2010 06:41, Thomas Witt wrote: > A few years back I got a complete set of (two each) spindles (front axle as > you call it), rotor/hubs, calipers, backing plates and wheel bearings for > $80. All I needed at the time was one spindle, but the "package" was all I > could find. Shortly there after I found another spindle for $25. > > I also recall someone offering me a single spindle for $100. So, quite a > broad range ($25-$100). How good of a friend is it you have??? > Tom Depends if they are drop spindles... they are worth. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 21:22:54 2010 From: "hanjan2" To: , Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 22:22:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Way to go John ... thought I was the only one pulling from the top! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:35 AM Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques > Pulling an engine from a Tiger is like a religion. Once someone excepts > and > practices it a certain way, it generally becomes the only way. I am not > trying to convert anyone, just explain why I do it from the top. > > I pretty much follow the Manual procedure except I don't remove the > steering rack or washer bottle. > > You need the following; > * The ability to jack the car up temporarily 2 feet high in the front > and drop it after the tailshaft clears the tunnel. > * A chain-fall with a hook that will go at least 6 ft off the ground. > * A short lifting sling. > * A come-a-long to level the engine once it clears the tunnel and is > above the radiator support. > .Here are some of the reasons why I pull from the top > * I don't have to remove and reinstall the wheels. > * I don't have to remove and reinstall the front crossmember. > * I don't have to remove, then reinstall the steering column and > realign the wheels. > * I don't have to disconnect brake lines and then have to connect and > bleed them. > * I only need to disconnect and tie up the fuel line. > * After the engine is out I can safely roll, steer and stop the car > on all four of its wheels out of the way anytime I want without jacks or > blocks. > * I don't have to lift and roll the freshly restored body around > without front wheels and risk dropping a it. This has happened in our > family! > * I can do the whole job by myself without help. > John Logan > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/hanjan2@bellsouth.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 8 23:59:25 2010 From: arado7@sbcglobal.net To: "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 22:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques --- I pulled mine from the top. It was in 1986. A complete rebuild with new bore, new.40k over pistons, crank polish and inserts standard size.Original cam with new bearings. original followers. Reworked heads, replaced oil pump. Resurfaced flywheel and new clutch. New timing train as needed. Gearbox and rear end needed nothing. Put it back in car from the top. No problem. Used nothing but Mobil 1 20/50 and it's still in there and runs fine. I have a spare.. never used. Thanks john Logan. Gary, B9472283 tacted. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 01:41:29 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Beamclub Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 23:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Just out of curiosity---- has anyone pulled their engine from top or bottom while leaving one side or both headers on the engine. I have pulled more than my share of Tiger drive trains. For years from the top but I kept reading how easy out the bottom is. Well I dont think there is a lot of difference(unless my header question receives a YES response) It seems to me having the proper equipment is the secret. I would love to have a drawing of whatever invention allows the floor jack to lift the crossmember square and level. HINT< HINT< HINT. I have used an A frame on wheels with a 4 inch beam between the A legs w/ 2 trolleys with 1 ton chain falls and I use the intake plate-- the A-frame is taller than my rafters, so I have that much room to roll the engine/tranny the direction I plan plus the car can be rolled- I dont have a measurement in my head but with the intake plate, a shackle hooked to the hook on the chain fall, I have no problem rolling the car from under the pair. I do remove the wheels and jack up the car, placing GOOD jack stands in appropriate locations. Someone ask about using 4 jack stands, my rule applies to 2,4 or more. Once in place you should be able to shake the hell out of the car and have no worry about it falling. THEN, place floor jacks where they give extra protection. Most life insurance pays double in case of accidental death and a man just never knows when a female has decided to get even for that mistake you made 28 years earlier.Like elephants, they never forget- ANYTHING you did wrong. Not that I think that will ever happen but dont leave a good floor jack just setting beside a car you are in under. The same applies to tires and wheels. SAFETY FIRST _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 07:38:26 2010 From: Carmods@aol.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 09:19:28 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy About 30 years ago a supervisor in our shop killed himself when he accidentally kicked the release lever on the hydraulic jack he was using. Since then I have preached that there must always be some redundant method of keeping the car up if something fails. Hopefully after all these years, my son remembers my bitching. Besides extra jacks, I try to slide the wheel I take off under the car as just another redundancy. John Logan. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 07:38:59 2010 From: Carmods@aol.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 09:19:58 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Starters achd73@yahoo.com writes: I did have trouble once getting a starter in after headers where on- sure hope that hi torque starter last a long time. Starter removal in a Tiger with headers is greatly improved by using the small Mustang starters that are now available. John Logan _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 12:11:46 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: Tony Somebody Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:54:33 +0200 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Tony, I removed only one header when dropping the engine out the bottom. But with a good 1/4" uj and extesion it's easy enough to bolt/unbolt the headers. I used a motorcyle jack to support and lower the engine and wheel it out. No jig needed just some wood blocks. I agree about the crossmember... On 9 Apr 2010, at 08:44, Tony Somebody wrote: > Just out of curiosity---- has anyone pulled their engine from top or > bottom > while leaving one side or both headers on the engine. I have pulled > more than > my share of Tiger drive trains. For years from the top but I kept > reading how > easy out the bottom is. Well I dont think there is a lot of > difference(unless > my header question receives a YES response) It seems to me having > the proper > equipment is the secret. I would love to have a drawing of whatever > invention > allows the floor jack to lift the crossmember square and level. > HINT< HINT< > HINT. I have used an A frame on wheels with a 4 inch beam between > the A legs > w/ 2 trolleys with 1 ton chain falls and I use the intake plate-- > the A-frame > is taller than my rafters, so I have that much room to roll the > engine/tranny > the direction I plan plus the car can be rolled- I dont have a > measurement in > my head but with the intake plate, a shackle hooked to the hook on > the chain > fall, I have no problem rolling the car > from under the pair. I do remove the wheels and jack up the car, > placing GOOD > jack stands in appropriate locations. Someone ask about using 4 jack > stands, > my rule applies to 2,4 or more. Once in place you should be able to > shake the > hell out of the car and have no worry about it falling. THEN, place > floor > jacks where they give extra protection. Most life insurance pays > double in > case of accidental death and a man just never knows when a female > has decided > to get even for that mistake you made 28 years earlier.Like > elephants, they > never forget- ANYTHING you did wrong. Not that I think that will > ever happen > but dont leave a good floor jack just setting beside a car you are in > under. The same applies to tires and wheels. SAFETY FIRST > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 14:41:36 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:19:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy >>>I try to slide the wheel I take off under the car as just another >>>redundancy.<<< Another lister mentioned this as well and I fully agree. This may sound a bit odd, but whenever I go under a car that has been elevated, I always plan my escape route. Am I quick enough??? Not sure (especially as I move towards my mid-50's) but perhaps it is the difference between a crushed ankle and a crushed skull. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 15:26:43 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: atwittsend@verizon.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 17:05:42 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy The problem is can see unless I get tires wider than my 255's, the car is going to hit my belly before it hits the tire;-) In a message dated 4/9/2010 4:42:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, atwittsend@verizon.net writes: >>>I try to slide the wheel I take off under the car as just another >>>redundancy.<<< Another lister mentioned this as well and I fully agree. This may sound a bit odd, but whenever I go under a car that has been elevated, I always plan my escape route. Am I quick enough??? Not sure (especially as I move towards my mid-50's) but perhaps it is the difference between a crushed ankle and a crushed skull. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 17:44:14 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: CoolVT@aol.com, atwittsend@verizon.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 16:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy So you suffer from Dunlops disease. Thats where your belly dunlops over your belt. Me too ________________________________ From: "CoolVT@aol.com" To: atwittsend@verizon.net; tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 2:05:42 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy The problem is can see unless I get tires wider than my 255's, the car is going to hit my belly before it hits the tire;-) In a message dated 4/9/2010 4:42:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, atwittsend@verizon.net writes: >>>I try to slide the wheel I take off under the car as just another >>>redundancy.<<< Another lister mentioned this as well and I fully agree. This may sound a bit odd, but whenever I go under a car that has been elevated, I always plan my escape route. Am I quick enough??? Not sure (especially as I move towards my mid-50's) but perhaps it is the difference between a crushed ankle and a crushed skull. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 9 18:12:09 2010 From: "Mike Michels" To: "'michael king'" , "'Buck Trippel'" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 16:52:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques Tiger Tales had photos in the Jan/Feb 2009 issue. Dan helped with the remove and replace. Weight in the trunk definitely helped. He has a custom-made cradle that made things a big easier, but it's not absolutely necessary IMO. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of michael king Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 9:30 PM To: Buck Trippel Cc: email list; Tiger@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Installation Techniques On 8 April 2010 13:04, Buck Trippel wrote: > Duke, > > That's Dan Walters' standard m.o. I think 200lbs will do it. > > Dan removes Tiger engines by himself in a little over 2 hours. > No cherry picker - just a scissors jack and his custom engine dolly. > The scissor is mainly used under the X-frame. > > Buck > I think there was a pictorial review of the *"down and out"* method in the CAT newsletter last year -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mmichels@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 11:28:10 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 12:59:20 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Color FYI to all Mike Michels email on engine removal reminded me that there are color pictures of his Blue 260 engine, in the Jan/ Feb 2009 issue of Tiger Tails, which he believed to be the wrong shade of Blue. I have been looking at some pictures of the Blue paint on the Mk II 289 engines and they seem to have a similar shade of Blue. Ford changed engine color from Semi gloss Black to Blue for the 1966 model year which started in Aug 1965. This includes the last group of B19KC, 260 engines built in the fall of 1965 and all the Mk II, 289 engines. I can't say which is the correct Blue because pictures can have color shift due to lighting, age of paint or other making colors look different but I'm looking into this as I get time and chance to look at Mk II engines. I found this web site that at least has 3 Ford Blue colors compared: http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors To me even the first color chip on this site is darker than what I see on Mk II engine pictures and the color of Mike Michels' engine but it is close or similar to what I see in some pictures. I made a test sample of Plasti-Kote Ford Blue 205 and 224; 205 is the lighter blue, 224 is the dark blue. The Ford Blue 205 color on my sample looks to be between the 1st and 2nd chips on that web site. There again this is not a good way to compare the colors. It would be nice to have a collection of pictures of the original Blue painted Tiger engines somewhere on the Internet. I'm going to make some other paint samples and make better comparisons against a Mk II engine. Thanks for listening Ron Fraser _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 11:42:38 2010 From: GRMTim@aol.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 09:23:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] update on Classic Motorsports Mitty Sorry I haven't posted much lately. Been crazy busy, but have been lurking. Hope everyone has been enjoying the Tiger articles in Classic Motorsports. Don't usually like to barge lists, but as Peter Brock was so instrumental with the Shelby program, is our grand marshall and you will have plenty of face time with him at this event, I thought I should update you guys. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 239-0523 Fax: (386) 239-0723 The MITTY Returns to Road Atlanta to Celebrate its 34th Year B B B B The oldest historic car race on the East Coast returns to Road Atlanta, April 29-May 2 with the Classic Motorsports MITTY presented by Mazda. B B B B Legendary auto figure Peter Brock is the Grand Marshal of this yearbs 34th annual festivities that will feature 28 races over three days featuring a lineup of more than 250 historic cars, offering something for every racing fan. B B B B Brock is a noted designer, builder and racer having stamped his legend by designing the World Championship Shelby Daytona Cobra and giving Datsun its first C Production National and Trans-Am 2.5 championships with his BRE stable of winning cars. He will be honored at a special dinner Thursday night at the track. B B B B bIbm greatly honored to be the grand marshal of the Mitty,b Brock said. bThis is the premier event of its kind. To have the history of BRE recognized is a great tribute and truly a walk down memory lane. Ibm looking forward to meeting with my old crew, the fans and seeing some old friends.b B B B B Brock has a long and storied history of excellence in the automotive industry. He began his career as a designer for General Motors where he penned the original Stingray concept. Later, Brock moved to the West Coast to work for Carroll Shelby, starting his School of High Performance Driving, which ultimately led to designing the Cobra Daytona Coupe. The still-young Brock continued his meteoric rise by creating Brock Racing Enterprises at the end of 1965. His team of BRE Datsun race cars quickly began winning trophies and championships across the country, proving to critics that these early Japanese imports could compete with the world. The BRE Datsuns won four national championships and had an unmistakable livery that is among the most recognizable in all of racing. Many fans, in fact, created BRE btributeb cars replicating the famous livery. On Saturday Brock will judge the best btributeb cars. B B B B B bHistoric Sportscar Racing has been bringing fans fantastic racing featuring some the great names in racing for two decades,b said Ken Fengler, HSR Vice President of Race Operations. bThis yearbs Mitty promises to offer fans some of the best racing ever among a broad variety of championship-winning cars and drivers.b Lotus will be a featured marque with a 20-lap Formula 5000 race at noon Sunday, May 2. Tony Adamowicz, the 1969 F5000 champion, will be among the competitors in his Eagle Mk5. In addition, spectators will be given free track laps in the all-new Lotus Evora during the weekend. B B B B Porsche will be in the spotlight with the Klub Sport Challenge which enters its 14th year of competition for all Porsches from the 1950s, 60s and 70s for 2.0-liter and 2.5-liter Porsche 911s, 914s, 356s and CP models. Additionally, the Cayman Interseries features 2009-2010 Caymans painted in historic racing paint schemes. B B B B Mazda fans will enjoy the SCCA Pro Racing Playboy Mazda MX-5 Cup, the only professional event of the weekend, which will be run Saturday afternoon. B B B B B In addition there will be seven other classes of racing including Vintage Production, Historic Production, Open Wheel, Historic GTP/Group C/WSC/DP, Championship of Makes, Historic Stock Cars and IMSA Historic GT.B B B B B B A vintage event for motorcycles will be held for nostalgic two-wheel marquees such as Norton, Triumph, Vincent and Matchless. They will race both Saturday and Sunday. B B B B Several non-racing activities will appeal to fans as well at the infield 2010 Speedfest. The Factory Five/Cobra Corral will be center stage of the infield vendor alley with car displays and vendor booths. More than 20 car clubs, including Jaguar, Porsche, Alfa Romeo, Cobra, Lotus and Fiat-Lancia, also will be on display in the infield. The Mazda ownerbs party Friday night is open to all Mazda owners who can attend by showing their car keys. The Saturday Night Party, sponsored by Moss Motors, will offer live entertainment with music by Wes Cobb. B B B An added bonus for fans will be the Concours dbLeMons, which puts a bitter twist on traditional Concours events by celebrating unloved and underappreciated classics, automotive oddities and cars whose owners arenbt afraid of a little self-deprecation. Judges will present several awards for cars that are especially foul, such as bMost Dangerous,b bWorst in Show,b and the b Biggest Loserb for the car with the greatest level of value depreciation. B B B B Among the top drivers competing in this yearbs MITTY will be George Robinson, Bill Adam, Butch Leitzinger and Travis Engen, all winners at the HSR season-opener in Sebring, Fla., as well as Elliott Forbes-Robinson, Jack Baldwin and Chip Robinson, to name a few.B B B B B B bThe variety of race cars competing includes everything from 1950s-era production models and sports cars to former IMSA and Trans-Am racers, NASCAR stock cars and current production Porsches. Many of the 250 entrants will sport vintage livery from the past that fans will readily recognize,b Fengler added. B B B B The Mitty is the second of eight races on the HSR 2010 schedule. For more information, go to www.themitty.com or www.hsrrace.com. # # # 04.01.2010 For more information, contact: Barbara J. Burns, BurnsGroup Unlimited 404.873.0772 phone or 770.329.7134 cell burnsgroup@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 13:15:07 2010 From: drmayf To: drmayf@mayfco.com Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 11:57:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Way OFF Topic: Ford Ranger Speed Parts Hey, thanks everyone. I have enough places to start looking for now. mayf drmayf wrote: > My youngest son has a 1997 Ford Ranger Splash that has the small 3.0L > V6. I think this is the Probe motor from a few years ago. Are speed > parts available for this puppy? Cam, lifters, headers, etc? Anyone > point me to a web site which might have info? Yes, I know a zillion > small block fords have been swapped in but I do not want to go in that > direction. Turbo, maybe, lol... > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/drmayf@mayfco.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 13:32:25 2010 From: John Crawley To: LIST TIGER Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:13:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy Hi: One thing I learned as a kid was not to use cement blocks to hold a car up while you work under it. My Healy 3000 was just too heavy and the blocks crumpled. I was young and spry enough to get most of the way out from under when it went down but I was trapped for over an hour before my 75 year old neighbour heard me yelling for help. He came over with an old pumper jack and used it on the front wheel well. The jack nearly wrote the car off but I survived with remarkably little damage to me since when I took it the wheel off I had pushed it under the car! Jc _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail & Messenger. Get them on your phone now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724463 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 14:57:43 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:29:39 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] 67 Shelby Shocks List OK, off subject, but with all the knowledge out there I'm sure someone can help me. One of my friends is reassembling (restoring) a 67 GT-350 Shelby Mustang. The original front shocks (Autolite) have a disk (washer) welded just under the top rubber bushing and has four holes drilled in it (90degrees apart). He wants me to weld one of these round disks on each shock for originality. My question is, how was this used for adjustment, given the fact that you can only turn the top of the shock 180 degrees in either direction (the two bolts on top) however the disk has 4 holes in it? The pictures I've seen don't show the bottom of the shock. What went in any of those 4 holes? Thanks in advance. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 14:58:34 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: LIST TIGER , John Crawley Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy GLAD you are still with us. Back in the day, those old blocks, commonly called "cinder blocks"didnt have much concrete in them and they did crumble easily.Im sure your nieghbor was scared, at his age he was scared or not the least bit excited ! TtT --- On Sat, 4/10/10, John Crawley wrote: From: John Crawley Subject: Re: [Tigers] Car Jacking Redundancy To: "LIST TIGER" Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 2:13 PM Hi: One thing I learned as a kid was not to use cement blocks to hold a car up while you work under it. My Healy 3000 was just too heavy and the blocks crumpled. I was young and spry enough to get most of the way out from under when it went down but I was trapped for over an hour before my 75 year old neighbour heard me yelling for help. He came over with an old pumper jack and used it on the front wheel well. The jack nearly wrote the car off but I survived with remarkably little damage to me since when I took it the wheel off I had pushed it under the car! Jc _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail & Messenger. Get them on your phone now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724463 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 14:58:45 2010 From: "Mike Michels" To: , Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:41:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Color I'm not sure that the paint on my 260 was original. It seemed pretty light compared to the usual Ford Blue, but it was very aged. For what it's worth I ended up painting the new engine with Duplicolor 1606 Ford dark blue which seems to be closest to other Ford products of the era. It's pretty much a moot point for me since so little of the painted portion of the engine is visible in the engine bay. The only time I'm even aware that the engine is blue is when looking at the oil pan during an oil change! -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:59 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Engine Color FYI to all Mike Michels email on engine removal reminded me that there are color pictures of his Blue 260 engine, in the Jan/ Feb 2009 issue of Tiger Tails, which he believed to be the wrong shade of Blue. I have been looking at some pictures of the Blue paint on the Mk II 289 engines and they seem to have a similar shade of Blue. Ford changed engine color from Semi gloss Black to Blue for the 1966 model year which started in Aug 1965. This includes the last group of B19KC, 260 engines built in the fall of 1965 and all the Mk II, 289 engines. I can't say which is the correct Blue because pictures can have color shift due to lighting, age of paint or other making colors look different but I'm looking into this as I get time and chance to look at Mk II engines. I found this web site that at least has 3 Ford Blue colors compared: http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors To me even the first color chip on this site is darker than what I see on Mk II engine pictures and the color of Mike Michels' engine but it is close or similar to what I see in some pictures. I made a test sample of Plasti-Kote Ford Blue 205 and 224; 205 is the lighter blue, 224 is the dark blue. The Ford Blue 205 color on my sample looks to be between the 1st and 2nd chips on that web site. There again this is not a good way to compare the colors. It would be nice to have a collection of pictures of the original Blue painted Tiger engines somewhere on the Internet. I'm going to make some other paint samples and make better comparisons against a Mk II engine. Thanks for listening Ron Fraser _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mmichels@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 17:12:39 2010 From: motoys2001@comcast.net To: "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 22:47:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Tigers] 67 Shelby Shocks These guys should have the answer for you: http://saacforum.com/index.php _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 17:28:38 2010 From: Kenneth Perry To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:39:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger question Classic Tiger, My name is Kenny Perry and I live in Portsmouth, VA. My father in law has a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger that he is looking to sell. However, he doesn't know much about computers, so I'm in charge of getting the car sold. I have had a really tough time trying to sell it on ebay, so I found you guys' website and I was hoping you might be able to provide some advice. In your opinion, what is the best venue, or the best way, to advertise his car for sale? Do you guys know any potential buyers who might be interested in his car? Here are some specs: it's an original 1966 Tiger, which has been repainted yellow. The paint job is practically immaculate. Leather interior, manual transmission. It runs well, and has around 83,000 miles on it. I can provide more details if you're interested. Any tips or advice you could provide about how to best sell the Tiger would be MUCH appreciated. Like I've said, it's been a frustrating ordeal trying to sell the car, and my in laws need money so they want to get it sold quickly. Thanks for your help! Kenny _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 18:11:56 2010 From: Tod Brown To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:54:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dunlops Disease I have heard some Brits refer to this as "a porch over the toy store". Cheers, Tod B382002384LRXFE _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 18:57:55 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tiger's Den Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:45:01 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Wrist Watch This item is Sunbeam Tiger Mk II "289"named wristwatch. Japanese Quartz movement, chrome case and Stainless back and band, stop watch. About 6 days left at current bid $28.88. No! It is NOT a Rolex, but may satisfy a need. Or "custom graphics", or self-made graphics available http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUNBEAM-TIGER-MK-II-MARK-II-289-ENGINE-EMBLEM-ART-WATCH_W0QQitemZ280491364837QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRace_Car_Parts?hash=item414e9691e5 At this price, let them steal it! ;-) Steve _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 10 19:28:55 2010 From: David T Johnson To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Engine color In )ct, 2008, Ron Fraser did quite a bit of research out the color of our engines. The results: It all depends on the Ford Revision number when the engine was built. According Ford Microfich, Ford switched engine color from black to Corporate Dark Blue beginning with build revision 9 Engine B19KC. This was In the summer of 1965 in order to have engines for the new 1966 models. These engines were Corporate Dark Blue. DE1606. This means if your Tiger has a B19KC engine and built before the summer of 1965, its engine should be black. Accoring to the BON, the first Tiger built with a B19KC was 02/10/65 The first Tiger with B19KC Rev 9 was 08/14/65.Its engine was the new Corporate Dark Blue this mean some 1965 Tigers have black engines some blue. All Tigers with Rev 9 thru the end of the MKIA were dark blue. The MK II were the new Lighter blue introduced with the 289. Your color all depeneds on the build date of your Tiger with its Revison number This why you should keep your ID plate, Here the confusion: Say you have a 1966 Tiger but its engine is black. If your build date is 08/14/65 and your Rev nbr is before Rev 9, Black is correct. But given how the dealers titled the cars, your car may have a 1967 on its title. Say you have a 1966 Tiger you bought in 1966 and its engine is black. Your purchade date is not indictive when it was made. It could have Be made before 08/65 and then black is correct. Otherwise check the Rev nbr of the engine. All B19KC Tigers Rev 9, (first built 08/14/65) had the new dark blue. Confused. Me too. Goodnight. Dave on Aug 08, 1 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 09:47:03 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'David T Johnson'" , Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:07:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine color Dave Good synopsis and yes there is confusion here and probably always will. Ford controlled the color of the engines. All engine blocks were painted black until the 1966 Ford model year; Aug 1965. The B19KC engine group spans the 1965 and 1966 Ford model years and were divided into 2 build periods. The engine ID tag for the 1965, 260 engines will have 65 and probably revision level 5, I have no entries in my study for the early B19KC engine group. The engine ID tag for the 1966 engines will have 66 and revision level 9. The later group of B19KC, 260 engines were built in the fall of 1966 and were painted blue. I have several engine entries in my study for this later group of B19KC engines with Oct 1966 build dates. The real confusion is with the Paint. Different shades of Ford Blue are rampant on the market. Many are called Old Ford Blue or Ford Blue but do not seem even close to the Blue color on Tiger engines. I don't know if there is a difference in the shade of Blue used for the last group of 260 engines and the Mk II, 289 engines. I would not think so but I usually get into trouble when I think too much. What is needed are color photos of original Tiger engines painted blue and historical color photos for comparison. My current position on what shade of Blue; 1- if it is know that the engine should be Blue; paint it Blue; 2- paint the engine the shade of Blue that appeals to you. I intend to keep looking into this subject and I hope other will too. My Original Tiger Engine Study includes all Tigers so feel free to contact me offline to participate or to just have your Ford casting numbers and date codes deciphered. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David T Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:04 PM To: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Engine color In )ct, 2008, Ron Fraser did quite a bit of research out the color of our engines. The results: It all depends on the Ford Revision number when the engine was built. According Ford Microfich, Ford switched engine color from black to Corporate Dark Blue beginning with build revision 9 Engine B19KC. This was In the summer of 1965 in order to have engines for the new 1966 models. These engines were Corporate Dark Blue. DE1606. This means if your Tiger has a B19KC engine and built before the summer of 1965, its engine should be black. Accoring to the BON, the first Tiger built with a B19KC was 02/10/65 The first Tiger with B19KC Rev 9 was 08/14/65.Its engine was the new Corporate Dark Blue this mean some 1965 Tigers have black engines some blue. All Tigers with Rev 9 thru the end of the MKIA were dark blue. The MK II were the new Lighter blue introduced with the 289. Your color all depeneds on the build date of your Tiger with its Revison number This why you should keep your ID plate, Here the confusion: Say you have a 1966 Tiger but its engine is black. If your build date is 08/14/65 and your Rev nbr is before Rev 9, Black is correct. But given how the dealers titled the cars, your car may have a 1967 on its title. Say you have a 1966 Tiger you bought in 1966 and its engine is black. Your purchade date is not indictive when it was made. It could have Be made before 08/65 and then black is correct. Otherwise check the Rev nbr of the engine. All B19KC Tigers Rev 9, (first built 08/14/65) had the new dark blue. Confused. Me too. Goodnight. Dave on Aug 08, 1 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2802 - Release Date: 04/10/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 12:50:42 2010 From: "Clyde McLaughlin" To: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:19:14 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] CENTRAL PA BASH Anyone from the dc md area going to the pa bash on fri want to drive up together ?? Clyde 410 562 2316 or reply to e-mail _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 16:14:40 2010 From: "A. C. Tynes" To: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:44:29 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Ford four barrel manifold There is an ad for a stock four barrel manifold on the local Craigslist for $150. http://neworleans.craigslist.org/pts/1687194401.html I can go check it out if anyone is interested. Just let me know. A. C. Tynes New Orleans _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 16:32:10 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:06:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine color Mark This is one of those gray areas we may never fully understand. The Ford Industrial Division had a lot to do with organization and process of this Special Order of engines to Rootes but I don't have a clear perspective on their total role. As far as I know all the Tiger engines were built at the Cleveland Foundry. I believe the CF on the valve cover stickers means Cleveland Foundry. I'm assuming at this time that the color of the engine blocks followed the color of the rest of the engines built during this same period in accordance with Ford procedures. I also realize that with this Special Order a color variant but still a stock Ford color might have been applied to the Blue Tiger engines to make them stand out on the factory floor. It may or may not have been a nightmare for the Industrial Division to process the Tiger engine Order. My theory is that Ford built the Tiger Engines during slack times in their normal build cycles. To date the majority of Tiger engines were built between Jan through April and between Oct and Nov. Many castings were done Jan to March and also July. July, generally is a shut down period between model years. Please note that these are just the trends I see with the Engine Study; more information could change this. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: CoolVT@aol.com [mailto:CoolVT@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:17 PM To: rfraser@bluefrog.com; djoh797014@yahoo.com; Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine color Ron, If the engines are supposedly from the "industrial" division, if would be interesting to see the color of some industrial engines. I believe "New Holland" farm equipment came from that division during that period. Mark L _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 17:32:39 2010 From: Rob Guerra To: tigerlist 2 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:06:53 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Low Serial # Car's questions Hello all I am doing a research project and would like owners with cars whose serial are less than B9470250 LRXFE to contact me off the list. I have a couple of questions for you. tiger351w@comcast.net Rob _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 17:32:59 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: rfraser@bluefrog.com, Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:14:36 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine color A few years back I approached an old time New Holland dealer to see if their parts dept. could find Tiger pulleys. They said the #'s sounded familiar, but couldn't find any reference in their current books. It would be interesting if dealer had old books on hand if they could find any reference to the engine and parts that went on it. It normally takes finding an old timer who has been in the parts dept for 40 years. I found just that when I was looking for a part for a commercial carpet shampooer. I couldn't find one dealer on the internet who knew what I was talking about and when the factory parts dept didn't know, they finally put me in touch with a 45 yr. employee who knew the part # off the top of her head......and they had 3 of the parts left on their shelves....but under a new number. I'm still guessing some New Holland dealer has the old Tiger pulleys on the shelf somewhere. Mark In a message dated 4/11/2010 6:33:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rfraser@bluefrog.com writes: Mark This is one of those gray areas we may never fully understand. The Ford Industrial Division had a lot to do with organization and process of this Special Order of engines to Rootes but I don't have a clear perspective on their total role. As far as I know all the Tiger engines were built at the Cleveland Foundry. I believe the CF on the valve cover stickers means Cleveland Foundry. I'm assuming at this time that the color of the engine blocks followed the color of the rest of the engines built during this same period in accordance with Ford procedures. I also realize that with this Special Order a color variant but still a stock Ford color might have been applied to the Blue Tiger engines to make them stand out on the factory floor. It may or may not have been a nightmare for the Industrial Division to process the Tiger engine Order. My theory is that Ford built the Tiger Engines during slack times in their normal build cycles. To date the majority of Tiger engines were built between Jan through April and between Oct and Nov. Many castings were done Jan to March and also July. July, generally is a shut down period between model years. Please note that these are just the trends I see with the Engine Study; more information could change this. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: CoolVT@aol.com [mailto:CoolVT@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:17 PM To: rfraser@bluefrog.com; djoh797014@yahoo.com; Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine color Ron, If the engines are supposedly from the "industrial" division, if would be interesting to see the color of some industrial engines. I believe "New Holland" farm equipment came from that division during that period. Mark L _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 11 22:34:20 2010 From: DAVID GREEN To: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:55:16 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Midnight Blue # 58 Hello all, Anyone out there have a Tiger with color code #58 Midnight Blue?? Thanks Dave Green 2 Tigers, 14 Alpines _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 05:04:38 2010 From: "denis mercier" To: "DAVID GREEN" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 06:15:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Midnight Blue # 58 Dave. My MK1A is Midnight Blue # 58 with Azure Blue interior. Denis. B382000926LRXFE ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAVID GREEN" To: Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: [Tigers] Midnight Blue # 58 > Hello all, > > > > Anyone out there have a Tiger with color code #58 Midnight Blue?? > > Thanks > > Dave Green > > 2 Tigers, 14 Alpines > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/denismercier@telvic.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 06:35:03 2010 From: steve wick To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 05:05:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Midnight Blue # 58 Mine is code #58, but was painted Red by a previous owner. When I get around to restoring it, it will go back to blue. Steve > From: alpdavegre@msn.com > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:55:16 -0600 > Subject: [Tigers] Midnight Blue # 58 > > Hello all, > > > > Anyone out there have a Tiger with color code #58 Midnight Blue?? > > Thanks > > Dave Green > > 2 Tigers, 14 Alpines > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 06:49:41 2010 From: TIGEROOTES@aol.com To: denismercier@telvic.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:26:56 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Midnight Blue # 58 Dave, My Mk-1 is Midnight Blue. Jim _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 07:52:25 2010 From: Tod Brown To: rfraser@bluefrog.com, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:33:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint I am the original owner of my Tiger which came off the Jensen line at the end of August, 1966. I bought it in October of that year and it was registered as a 1967 in NY. The serial no. is B382002384LRXFE, making it toward the end of the run of MkIA's. Early in its life, I removed the original intake manifold and two-barrel carb and replaced them with a new intake and four-barrel. I carefully placed the original carb and manifold on a shelf in my basement, where it resided for 30 years plus. When I retired and moved to Maine, the manifold and carb came with me. The surface of the manifold has become pretty rusty over the years so it is hard to discern the exact color of its original paint, but it is clearly blue. Better yet, however, is the carb spacer (made of aluminum) that still resides in its original location on top of the manifold. The original paint is still there. My recollection, when I was looking to match the paint color when I wanted to paint the engine, is that the color is called "Old Ford Blue" and that I was able to buy some rattle cans of paint of that color which matched pretty well. I have taken a couple of pics of the carb spacer with the original paint and will be happy to send them to anyone who wants them. Also, for those who care (maybe just Ron Fraser) the original aluminum Ford tag was still on the manifold. It is stamped 260 66 9 5-K 510 - J Cheers, Tod _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 12:02:55 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:26:45 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] LAT 4 List, Well, someone stepped up to the plate and paid $999.00 for an oil pan (LAT 4) on E-Bay. I thought I paid a lot when I bought mine for $100.00 (OK it's been many many years ago).HA. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 13:13:56 2010 From: To: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:27:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] LAT 4 I was watching that. Those pans look to be brittle and no baffling in them to prevent oil sloshing around. I would consider one if the price were ~$200 and it had baffling. I will be going with a Canton on my 347. $999 is crazy money. It can go in a glass case with the MKII grill. Duke B382002037 ---- "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" wrote: > List, > > > > Well, someone stepped up to the plate and paid $999.00 for an oil pan (LAT > 4) on E-Bay. I thought I paid a lot when I bought mine for $100.00 (OK it's > been many many years ago).HA. > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 13:41:19 2010 From: m_dangelo@verizon.net To: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:55:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Hi all. I am getting ready to buy a clutch for my 289 engine. The engine is built to produce about 300HP (or just a bit less), so I am guessing I'll need a clutch rated for more than stock power. I expect to drive the car occasionally and at least 99% on the street. The flywheel is the old stock 160 tooth flywheel, which has been resurfaced, by the way. So, I am a bit clueless as to which clutch kit to buy. First, is there anything special about the Sunbeam Tiger, in that it needs a special type of clutch? I am considering the RAM Musclecar clutch and the McLeod MCL75113 diaphram clutch from Summit Racing. I seem to remember Doug Jennings recommending a diaphragm clutch to me... David Kee Toploaders as a clutch made especially for Sunbeam Tigers, whatever that means. I would like to keep the expense of a clutch at or lower than the McLeod ($235). Does anyone have any experience with choosing a clutch for a Tiger? I would really appreciate your advice and opinions of the two clutch kits mentioned above (from Summit Racing), as well as the David Kee clutch. I also have to buy a pilot bearing and don't know if that was a special bearing for the Tiger only. Any idea? Thanks very much! Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:11:01 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: wsamouce@kc.rr.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:22:00 +0200 Subject: Re: [Tigers] LAT 4 they are not so brittle. mine survived the Morocco rally with a rather inadequate guard protecting it that got torn to shreds. i've bottomed it quite hard several times with no ill affects and its heavily notched on the corners by the crossmember. i'm amazed how tough it is actually. i have a separate windage tray bolted to the bearing caps. having seen that price, i'd would have put a steel pan for rallying again though! i did want to actually but couldn't find one with a sufficiently large capacity in the UK... On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:27 PM, wrote: > I was watching that. Those pans look to be brittle and no baffling in them > to prevent oil sloshing around. I would consider one if the price were > ~$200 and it had baffling. I will be going with a Canton on my 347. > > $999 is crazy money. It can go in a glass case with the MKII grill. > > > Duke > B382002037 > > > > > ---- "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" wrote: > > List, > > > > > > > > Well, someone stepped up to the plate and paid $999.00 for an oil pan > (LAT > > 4) on E-Bay. I thought I paid a lot when I bought mine for $100.00 (OK > it's > > been many many years ago).HA. > > > > > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > > > 9473187 > > _______________________________________________ > > Tigers@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 14:14:09 2010 From: "Scott Hutchinson" To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:45:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Very happy with the Centerforce. I don't recall anything special about the throwout bearing or the pilot bearing. *** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:08:11 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:23:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Mauro The Tiger engine, clutch and transmission are all Ford parts. There is nothing special about the Tiger clutch. The difference is whether you have a 5 bolt engine or a 6 bolt engine block. The 5 bolt has a 10.5" flywheel and the 6 bolt has an 11" flywheel. Original pilot bearing - C2OA-7600-A I believe this bearing is used in all 289 engines also. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of m_dangelo@verizon.net Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:55 PM To: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Cc: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Subject: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Hi all. I am getting ready to buy a clutch for my 289 engine. The engine is built to produce about 300HP (or just a bit less), so I am guessing I'll need a clutch rated for more than stock power. I expect to drive the car occasionally and at least 99% on the street. The flywheel is the old stock 160 tooth flywheel, which has been resurfaced, by the way. So, I am a bit clueless as to which clutch kit to buy. First, is there anything special about the Sunbeam Tiger, in that it needs a special type of clutch? I am considering the RAM Musclecar clutch and the McLeod MCL75113 diaphram clutch from Summit Racing. I seem to remember Doug Jennings recommending a diaphragm clutch to me... David Kee Toploaders as a clutch made especially for Sunbeam Tigers, whatever that means. I would like to keep the expense of a clutch at or lower than the McLeod ($235). Does anyone have any experience with choosing a clutch for a Tiger? I would really appreciate your advice and opinions of the two clutch kits mentioned above (from Summit Racing), as well as the David Kee clutch. I also have to buy a pilot bearing and don't know if that was a special bearing for the Tiger only. Any idea? Thanks very much! Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/12/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 15:08:29 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: "m_dangelo@verizon.net" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:54:18 +0200 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 I'm happy with my 10" centreforce 2. Had lots of positive feedback from the list a couple of years back which is why I chose it. Very nice feel - easy and smooth - and I track the car and drive it hard with a similar amount of power. Tried the ford king cobra 10.5" and it was very stiff and I destroyed it. I used a brass pilot bushing and centreforce release bearing. All from summit and not expensive. I did use a new billet steel mcleod flywheel though as having an aluminum bellhousing I wanted a little more security. Personally I wouldn't use a stock cast flywheel without a scattershield if you drive the stones out of it. Can send part numbers if you need... On 12 Apr 2010, at 20:55, m_dangelo@verizon.net wrote: > Hi all. I am getting ready to buy a clutch for my 289 engine. The > engine is > built to produce about 300HP (or just a bit less), so I am guessing > I'll need > a clutch rated for more than stock power. I expect to drive the car > occasionally and at least 99% on the street. The flywheel is the old > stock 160 > tooth flywheel, which has been resurfaced, by the way. So, I am a bit > clueless as to which clutch kit to buy. First, is there anything > special > about the Sunbeam Tiger, in that it needs a special type of clutch? > I am > considering the RAM Musclecar clutch and the McLeod MCL75113 > diaphram clutch > from Summit Racing. I seem to remember Doug Jennings recommending a > diaphragm > clutch to me... David Kee Toploaders as a clutch made especially > for Sunbeam > Tigers, whatever that means. I would like to keep the expense of a > clutch at > or lower than the McLeod ($235). Does anyone have any experience with > choosing a clutch for a Tiger? I would really appreciate your > advice and > opinions of the two clutch kits mentioned above (from Summit > Racing), as well > as the David Kee clutch. I also have to buy a pilot bearing and > don't know if > that was a special bearing for the Tiger only. Any idea? Thanks > very much! > Mauro > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 16:12:49 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:43:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Book of Norman price poll (results) A number of weeks ago I offered to tabulate the price that was paid for the Book of Norman. I had only 14 respondents. Some were guessing on the price and others included a final price with tax and shipping, but no breakdown. Regardless, here are the results: Six people responded that they had paid $58 which I believe to be the original asking price. Three people stated they each paid $55, $60 and $70 respectively. This probably equates to the $58 plus some form of shipping, tax or a rough guess estimate. One person stated they believe they paid $25. One person said they paid $48, but they had giving information to the author and were discounted for that. On the higher end two people replied with $200 and $400 payments. Lastly, one respondent stated that the Book of Norman cost them $45,857.73. Any guesses??? So, there you have it. Not much of a poll. Well we tried. And..., no thanks I'd rather not do it twice (too much going on). Closing thoughts: Frankly I can think of no other investment I have ever made (including real estate) that on a percentage basis has appreciated more than the $310 I paid for my Book of Norman. More so, even in bad times it is still in demand and doesn't require a broker to sell. Thanks to all who participated. Regards, Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 16:42:37 2010 From: "wsamouce" To: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:54:05 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron I would like to say this happened years ago but it was this last Saturday. I have been having issues with the 7" Girling brake booster for about 2 years now. My car was missing the booster when I bought it and I bought one from a great guy (name withheld). This booster has been off my car three times and back to (the guy) for rebuild and adjustment to try to get it working correctly. It kept applying slight pressure to the brakes which is really bad for gas mileage and brake pads and shoes. The brakes started dragging again shortly after putting it back on the car, I called the guy and told him I give up and am going to buy a new Lockheed booster. He tells me he will send me a 5" Girling booster to replace the 7" booster. I say OK . I received the booster last week and installed it on Saturday. I did some other mild work replacing a brake cylinder and the line that fed it. So, the new booster is on the car and ready for pressure bleeding. I use the Motive pressure bleeder. I pumped the bleeder up to 15 psi and went to bleed the first caliper....gurgle, gurgle.the pressure bleeder just went dry..WTH? There was at least three pints of brake fluid in it too???? I figure that the new booster is bad and all of the fluid went into the "can" of the booster. I pull the "new" booster off and put on a bypass line. I then bleed the brakes with no issues. Now I need to send both boosters back. I then try to start the engine, it cranked and then locks! WTF! The engine hydrolocked, all of the brake fluid was pumped through the booster, up the vacuum line, into the manifold and then the cylinders. I am seriously pissed at this point. I then pulled all of the spark plugs so I can get the damn brake fluid out of the engine. I put lots and lots of paper towels by each hole to hopefully catch the fluid as it is expelled. I hit the starter and with nothing short of explosions, brake fluid is blown all over me, the engine, engine compartment and the front half of the car. I lose it at this point and yell bad things so loud that my son comes out of the house to check on me. Not only am I worried that the engine is damaged but now have a clock ticking of ruining just about all of the paint on my car. A emergency wash down takes place, then soap and water..install the plugs, start the engine (smokes like hell), engine sound Ok..drive directly to the car wash where I spend $10 pressure washing every part of the car. Turns out, engine is OK and I believe all of the paint is safe. Time will tell on that. I changed the oil and filter. Purchased the new Lockheed booster from SS today. Lessoned learned. 1. Disconnect the vacuum line to the manifold when bleeding the system 2. Hand crank the engine if this ever happens again. Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:10:10 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: atwittsend@verizon.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:18:09 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Book of Norman price poll (results) Tom, If you can come up with about 10 more at your $310 price, I'd like to invest. I pay the shipping. M In a message dated 4/12/2010 6:13:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, atwittsend@verizon.net writes: A number of weeks ago I offered to tabulate the price that was paid for the Book of Norman. I had only 14 respondents. Some were guessing on the price and others included a final price with tax and shipping, but no breakdown. Regardless, here are the results: Six people responded that they had paid $58 which I believe to be the original asking price. Three people stated they each paid $55, $60 and $70 respectively. This probably equates to the $58 plus some form of shipping, tax or a rough guess estimate. One person stated they believe they paid $25. One person said they paid $48, but they had giving information to the author and were discounted for that. On the higher end two people replied with $200 and $400 payments. Lastly, one respondent stated that the Book of Norman cost them $45,857.73. Any guesses??? So, there you have it. Not much of a poll. Well we tried. And..., no thanks I'd rather not do it twice (too much going on). Closing thoughts: Frankly I can think of no other investment I have ever made (including real estate) that on a percentage basis has appreciated more than the $310 I paid for my Book of Norman. More so, even in bad times it is still in demand and doesn't require a broker to sell. Thanks to all who participated. Regards, Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:14:33 2010 From: MWood24020@aol.com To: wsamouce@kc.rr.com, TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:42:36 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] LAT 4 At least MKII grills don't leak... ;-) In a message dated 4/12/2010 12:15:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, wsamouce@kc.rr.com writes: I was watching that. Those pans look to be brittle and no baffling in them to prevent oil sloshing around. I would consider one if the price were ~$200 and it had baffling. I will be going with a Canton on my 347. $999 is crazy money. It can go in a glass case with the MKII grill. Duke B382002037 ---- "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" wrote: > List, > > > > Well, someone stepped up to the plate and paid $999.00 for an oil pan (LAT > 4) on E-Bay. I thought I paid a lot when I bought mine for $100.00 (OK it's > been many many years ago).HA. > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:41:57 2010 From: Marc James Small To: "wsamouce" ,tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:52:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron At 05:54 PM 4/12/2010, wsamouce wrote: >I would like to say this happened years ago but it was this last Saturday. > >I have been having issues with the 7" Girling brake booster for about 2 >years now. My car was missing the booster when I bought it and I bought one >from a great guy (name withheld). > >This booster has been off my car three times and back to (the guy) for >rebuild and adjustment to try to get it working correctly. It kept applying >slight pressure to the brakes which is really bad for gas mileage and brake >pads and shoes. I have rebuilt a number of the Girling Boosters, in both sizes, and I think I know what the fellow was doing wrong. These things are pretty simple to overhaul and the only requirements are the proper rebuilt kit, a lot of caution, and even more attention to detail. Of the dozen or so I have rebuilt, one did maintain residual pressure -- I took it apart and found that I had not properly cleaned the can, so that the piston was snagging slightly. A complete cleaning, five minutes with some ultra-fine sandpaper, and another complete cleaning, then reassembly and it worked fine. Girling boosters are really not that hard to overhaul, sort of on the same order as a Bosch K-Jetronic fuel-injection system. Surgical cleanliness is really necessary. Beyond that, though, it is not rocket science. But, yes, I would go for the Lockheed booster today -- the Girling Boosters were last made years back, I believe, and, unless you find a NIB example, the new unit is bound to be more reliable. Marc msmall@aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 17:42:57 2010 From: "rande" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:59:57 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] clutch I'd take the advice of getting the Centerforce. I haven't used one but all the feedback I've heard is that it's the way to go with a built motor. I used a McLeod setup in my Oregon Mustang days ('65 2+2 289-4V twice pipes) but I didn't beat on it, as I took it 50 miles each way to work a few days a week. It had the 10.4" clutch disc that Tiger Mark II's and some Mark I's use (164 tooth flywheel). You might ask others with the 347 motor what they used for a clutch. By the way, Ron included the right part number for the Ford pilot bushing. Someone from Ford gave me a number for a later actual pilot bearing that he said superceeds the brass? bushing. The number is D8TZ-7600-A I have one ready to install in my Tiger 1A (the motor is a 4/67 289 C (2bbl). Has anyone used the newer pilot bearing in their cars? _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:11:45 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: , , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:21:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Mauro, You can upgrade to a more modern needle pilot bearing too. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 3:24 PM To: m_dangelo@verizon.net; TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Cc: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Mauro The Tiger engine, clutch and transmission are all Ford parts. There is nothing special about the Tiger clutch. The difference is whether you have a 5 bolt engine or a 6 bolt engine block. The 5 bolt has a 10.5" flywheel and the 6 bolt has an 11" flywheel. Original pilot bearing - C2OA-7600-A I believe this bearing is used in all 289 engines also. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of m_dangelo@verizon.net Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:55 PM To: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Cc: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Subject: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Hi all. I am getting ready to buy a clutch for my 289 engine. The engine is built to produce about 300HP (or just a bit less), so I am guessing I'll need a clutch rated for more than stock power. I expect to drive the car occasionally and at least 99% on the street. The flywheel is the old stock 160 tooth flywheel, which has been resurfaced, by the way. So, I am a bit clueless as to which clutch kit to buy. First, is there anything special about the Sunbeam Tiger, in that it needs a special type of clutch? I am considering the RAM Musclecar clutch and the McLeod MCL75113 diaphram clutch from Summit Racing. I seem to remember Doug Jennings recommending a diaphragm clutch to me... David Kee Toploaders as a clutch made especially for Sunbeam Tigers, whatever that means. I would like to keep the expense of a clutch at or lower than the McLeod ($235). Does anyone have any experience with choosing a clutch for a Tiger? I would really appreciate your advice and opinions of the two clutch kits mentioned above (from Summit Racing), as well as the David Kee clutch. I also have to buy a pilot bearing and don't know if that was a special bearing for the Tiger only. Any idea? Thanks very much! Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/12/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:15:43 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:30:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Thanks for the information. I noticed nobody talked about the McLeod or Ram clutches. Are the Centerforce clutches better than these for some reason? Thanks. Mauro B382001355LRXFE On 4/12/10 7:21 PM, "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" wrote: > Mauro, > You can upgrade to a more modern needle pilot bearing too. > > Jerry Christopherson > 9473187 > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Ron Fraser > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 3:24 PM > To: m_dangelo@verizon.net; TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Cc: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > > Mauro > The Tiger engine, clutch and transmission are all Ford parts. There > is nothing special about the Tiger clutch. > The difference is whether you have a 5 bolt engine or a 6 bolt engine block. > The 5 bolt has a 10.5" flywheel and the 6 bolt has an 11" flywheel. > > Original pilot bearing - C2OA-7600-A I believe this bearing is used in > all 289 engines also. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of m_dangelo@verizon.net > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:55 PM > To: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Cc: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Subject: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > > > Hi all. I am getting ready to buy a clutch for my 289 engine. The engine > is built to produce about 300HP (or just a bit less), so I am guessing I'll > need a clutch rated for more than stock power. I expect to drive the car > occasionally and at least 99% on the street. The flywheel is the old stock > 160 tooth flywheel, which has been resurfaced, by the way. So, I am a bit > clueless as to which clutch kit to buy. First, is there anything special > about the Sunbeam Tiger, in that it needs a special type of clutch? I am > considering the RAM Musclecar clutch and the McLeod MCL75113 diaphram clutch > from Summit Racing. I seem to remember Doug Jennings recommending a > diaphragm > clutch to me... David Kee Toploaders as a clutch made especially for > Sunbeam > Tigers, whatever that means. I would like to keep the expense of a clutch > at or lower than the McLeod ($235). Does anyone have any experience with > choosing a clutch for a Tiger? I would really appreciate your advice and > opinions of the two clutch kits mentioned above (from Summit Racing), as > well as the David Kee clutch. I also have to buy a pilot bearing and don't > know if that was a special bearing for the Tiger only. Any idea? Thanks > very much! Mauro _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/12/10 > 06:32:00 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:15:54 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:32:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] LAT 4 You are right on the baffle thing, when I installed mine I had baffles welded in before installation. I could see right away that it wouldn't work very well without them. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wsamouce@kc.rr.com Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:27 PM To: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Subject: Re: [Tigers] LAT 4 I was watching that. Those pans look to be brittle and no baffling in them to prevent oil sloshing around. I would consider one if the price were ~$200 and it had baffling. I will be going with a Canton on my 347. $999 is crazy money. It can go in a glass case with the MKII grill. Duke B382002037 ---- "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" wrote: > List, > > > > Well, someone stepped up to the plate and paid $999.00 for an oil pan (LAT > 4) on E-Bay. I thought I paid a lot when I bought mine for $100.00 (OK it's > been many many years ago).HA. > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:16:10 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:37:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just fine. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: MAURO D'ANGELO [mailto:m_dangelo@verizon.net] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 6:31 PM To: Jerry & Maureen (Mo); rfraser@bluefrog.com; TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Thanks for the information. I noticed nobody talked about the McLeod or Ram clutches. Are the Centerforce clutches better than these for some reason? Thanks. Mauro B382001355LRXFE On 4/12/10 7:21 PM, "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" wrote: > Mauro, > You can upgrade to a more modern needle pilot bearing too. > > Jerry Christopherson > 9473187 > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Ron Fraser > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 3:24 PM > To: m_dangelo@verizon.net; TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Cc: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > > Mauro > The Tiger engine, clutch and transmission are all Ford parts. There > is nothing special about the Tiger clutch. > The difference is whether you have a 5 bolt engine or a 6 bolt engine block. > The 5 bolt has a 10.5" flywheel and the 6 bolt has an 11" flywheel. > > Original pilot bearing - C2OA-7600-A I believe this bearing is used in > all 289 engines also. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of m_dangelo@verizon.net > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:55 PM > To: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Cc: TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET > Subject: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > > > Hi all. I am getting ready to buy a clutch for my 289 engine. The engine > is built to produce about 300HP (or just a bit less), so I am guessing I'll > need a clutch rated for more than stock power. I expect to drive the car > occasionally and at least 99% on the street. The flywheel is the old stock > 160 tooth flywheel, which has been resurfaced, by the way. So, I am a bit > clueless as to which clutch kit to buy. First, is there anything special > about the Sunbeam Tiger, in that it needs a special type of clutch? I am > considering the RAM Musclecar clutch and the McLeod MCL75113 diaphram clutch > from Summit Racing. I seem to remember Doug Jennings recommending a > diaphragm > clutch to me... David Kee Toploaders as a clutch made especially for > Sunbeam > Tigers, whatever that means. I would like to keep the expense of a clutch > at or lower than the McLeod ($235). Does anyone have any experience with > choosing a clutch for a Tiger? I would really appreciate your advice and > opinions of the two clutch kits mentioned above (from Summit Racing), as > well as the David Kee clutch. I also have to buy a pilot bearing and don't > know if that was a special bearing for the Tiger only. Any idea? Thanks > very much! Mauro _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/12/10 > 06:32:00 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:46:23 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: wsamouce , TIGERS@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron Thanks for the story. I certainly pull dumbshits from time to time also, usually right after the foolish thought passes through me that "I hardly ever make mistakes" At least your mistake was not related to a fatal jack stand/hydraulic jack error ________________________________ From: wsamouce To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Sent: Mon, April 12, 2010 2:54:05 PM Subject: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron I would like to say this happened years ago but it was this last Saturday. I have been having issues with the 7" Girling brake booster for about 2 years now. My car was missing the booster when I bought it and I bought one from a great guy (name withheld). This booster has been off my car three times and back to (the guy) for rebuild and adjustment to try to get it working correctly. It kept applying slight pressure to the brakes which is really bad for gas mileage and brake pads and shoes. The brakes started dragging again shortly after putting it back on the car, I called the guy and told him I give up and am going to buy a new Lockheed booster. He tells me he will send me a 5" Girling booster to replace the 7" booster. I say OK . I received the booster last week and installed it on Saturday. I did some other mild work replacing a brake cylinder and the line that fed it. So, the new booster is on the car and ready for pressure bleeding. I use the Motive pressure bleeder. I pumped the bleeder up to 15 psi and went to bleed the first caliper....gurgle, gurgle.the pressure bleeder just went dry..WTH? There was at least three pints of brake fluid in it too???? I figure that the new booster is bad and all of the fluid went into the "can" of the booster. I pull the "new" booster off and put on a bypass line. I then bleed the brakes with no issues. Now I need to send both boosters back. I then try to start the engine, it cranked and then locks! WTF! The engine hydrolocked, all of the brake fluid was pumped through the booster, up the vacuum line, into the manifold and then the cylinders. I am seriously pissed at this point. I then pulled all of the spark plugs so I can get the damn brake fluid out of the engine. I put lots and lots of paper towels by each hole to hopefully catch the fluid as it is expelled. I hit the starter and with nothing short of explosions, brake fluid is blown all over me, the engine, engine compartment and the front half of the car. I lose it at this point and yell bad things so loud that my son comes out of the house to check on me. Not only am I worried that the engine is damaged but now have a clock ticking of ruining just about all of the paint on my car. A emergency wash down takes place, then soap and water..install the plugs, start the engine (smokes like hell), engine sound Ok..drive directly to the car wash where I spend $10 pressure washing every part of the car. Turns out, engine is OK and I believe all of the paint is safe. Time will tell on that. I changed the oil and filter. Purchased the new Lockheed booster from SS today. Lessoned learned. 1. Disconnect the vacuum line to the manifold when bleeding the system 2. Hand crank the engine if this ever happens again. Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:47:45 2010 From: "Bill Rogers Motorsport Memories" To: "Tigers" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:45:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] TBON The last three copies to sell on Ebay fetched between $825 and $900. There is currently one up for auction with another day and a half to go; it is at $575 and has not yet reached the reserve. BillRo _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:49:53 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:53:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] clutch ...Speaking of which, how do I know if I should use a 10 inch or 10.5 inch clutch? Someone mentioned 11 inches, but I don't know about that. The flywheel on my engine has bolt holes spaced just over 11 inches. Does a 10.5 inch clutch have more grabbing power than a 10 inch? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Also, does anyone have a part number for the needle roller pilot bearing? Thanks! Mauro B382001355LRXFE. On 4/12/10 6:59 PM, "rande" wrote: > I'd take the advice of getting the Centerforce. I haven't used one but all the > feedback I've heard is that it's the way to go with a built motor. > > I used a McLeod setup in my Oregon Mustang days ('65 2+2 289-4V > twice pipes) but I didn't beat on it, as I took it 50 miles each way to work > a few days a week. > > It had the 10.4" clutch disc that Tiger Mark II's and some Mark I's use (164 > tooth flywheel). You might ask others with the 347 motor what they used for > a clutch. > > By the way, Ron included the right part number for the Ford pilot bushing. > Someone > from Ford gave me a number for a later actual pilot bearing that he said > superceeds > the brass? bushing. > The number is D8TZ-7600-A I have one ready to install in my Tiger 1A (the > motor is a 4/67 289 C (2bbl). Has anyone used the newer pilot bearing in their > cars? > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:50:04 2010 From: steve wick To: , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:56:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Book of Norman price poll (results) I would guess they got it with the purchase of their Tiger. Do I win anything? Steve > Lastly, one respondent stated that the Book of Norman cost them $45,857.73. > Any guesses??? > > > Regards, Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 18:52:13 2010 From: arado7@sbcglobal.net To: Marc James Small Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron Rebuilt mine in 1986. Use Dot5 silicon fluid. It's still as clean and sweet as then. Works flawlessly. gary B9472283 --- On Mon, 4/12/10, Marc James Small wrote: From: Marc James Small Subject: Re: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron To: "wsamouce" , tigers@autox.team.net Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 10:52 PM At 05:54 PM 4/12/2010, wsamouce wrote: >I would like to say this happened years ago but it was this last Saturday. > >I have been having issues with the 7" Girling brake booster for about 2 >years now. My car was missing the booster when I bought it and I bought one >from a great guy (name withheld). > >This booster has been off my car three times and back to (the guy) for >rebuild and adjustment to try to get it working correctly. It kept applying >slight pressure to the brakes which is really bad for gas mileage and brake >pads and shoes. I have rebuilt a number of the Girling Boosters, in both sizes, and I think I know what the fellow was doing wrong. These things are pretty simple to overhaul and the only requirements are the proper rebuilt kit, a lot of caution, and even more attention to detail. Of the dozen or so I have rebuilt, one did maintain residual pressure -- I took it apart and found that I had not properly cleaned the can, so that the piston was snagging slightly. A complete cleaning, five minutes with some ultra-fine sandpaper, and another complete cleaning, then reassembly and it worked fine. Girling boosters are really not that hard to overhaul, sort of on the same order as a Bosch K-Jetronic fuel-injection system. Surgical cleanliness is really necessary. Beyond that, though, it is not rocket science. But, yes, I would go for the Lockheed booster today -- the Girling Boosters were last made years back, I believe, and, unless you find a NIB example, the new unit is bound to be more reliable. Marc msmall@aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/arado7@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 19:26:35 2010 From: David Sosna To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:16:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron Duke: Whew! Reading your e-mail I had a mental image of you moving at about 90% of lightspeed to get the paint cleaned off. I'm glad there was no damage. Best Regards David Sosna wsamouce wrote: > I would like to say this happened years ago but it was this last Saturday. > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5023 (20100412) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 19:27:08 2010 From: Tom Prager To: "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:21:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Brake booster I had my original booster rebuilt by White Post Restoration as they offer a lifetime warranty. Tom 9472154 Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 19:27:16 2010 From: michael king To: "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:23:43 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 On 13 April 2010 09:37, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) wrote: > Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block > was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just > fine. Well the AC Cobras and TVR's were probably a fair bit lighter... but i think clutch life largely depends on how hard you are leaning on the car and how you take off from the lights.. if driven normally most clutches will give good service.. if driven "sportingly" i'd go for the stronger options.. as a side note.. Mauro dont fret about the $235 on the clutch.. after you have pulled your motor out through the top of the car and put it back in i am sure you will decide that a few more $ for the clucth is worth more than having to go through a Tiger engine pull sonner than need be. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 19:59:20 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: michael king , "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:58:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Thanks. I agree about other cars (TVR and Cobra) weighing less than the Tiger. I understood that Jerry was probably thinking of classic American cars that also used the SBF, like Fairlane, Galaxie, Falcon, Mustang, etc. I have not decided whether to pull the engine from the top or the bottom yet, actually. Either way, please don9t forget that my own time and effort costs me nothing (financially), so until I can afford my own Aston Martin, I plan to rule my own budget with an iron fist, but intelligently. If I can get away with $179 or $235 for a clutch that does absolutely everything I need it to do anything more would just be overkill -- then it makes no sense to spend any more (the world according to Mauro). Mind you, I9m not talking about skimping where skimping would affect the quality of the build. On the contrary. If you had any idea how much I have in the engine itself, you might be surprised. Incidentally, the reason I decided to press forward with the installation of the 289 is that the clutch on my 260 has begun to slip (takes a while to grab). I9m kind of bummed because the 260 is running fine. I think it9s due to the close ratio transmission paired with the tall rear gear. In this regard, is there any adjustment in the clutch of the Tiger? If I could shorten the rod a bit, it might help. Also, I was wondering, is there ANY way to replace a Tiger9s clutch without removing the engine? I9d do that for the time being if I could. Any ideas? Thanks. Mauro On 4/12/10 8:23 PM, "michael king" wrote: > > > On 13 April 2010 09:37, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) wrote: >> Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block >> was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just >> fine. > > Well the AC Cobras and TVR's were probably a fair bit lighter... but i think > clutch life largely depends on how hard you are leaning on the car and how you > take off from the lights.. if driven normally most clutches will give good > service.. if driven "sportingly" i'd go for the stronger options.. as a side > note.. > > Mauro dont fret about the $235 on the clutch.. after you have pulled your > motor out through the top of the car and put it back in i am sure you will > decide that a few more $ for the clucth is worth more than having to go > through a Tiger engine pull sonner than need be. > > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:01:57 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: m_dangelo@verizon.net, michael.s.king@gmail.com, Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:27:12 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Maurao, I would suggest you talk with Tom Hall _ModTiger@comcast.net_ (mailto:ModTiger@comcast.net) regarding the clutch rod length. He supplied me with a custom rod that increased my throw a little and solved my problem. mark In a message dated 4/12/2010 10:00:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, m_dangelo@verizon.net writes: Thanks. I agree about other cars (TVR and Cobra) weighing less than the Tiger. I understood that Jerry was probably thinking of classic American cars that also used the SBF, like Fairlane, Galaxie, Falcon, Mustang, etc. I have not decided whether to pull the engine from the top or the bottom yet, actually. Either way, please don9t forget that my own time and effort costs me nothing (financially), so until I can afford my own Aston Martin, I plan to rule my own budget with an iron fist, but intelligently. If I can get away with $179 or $235 for a clutch that does absolutely everything I need it to do anything more would just be overkill -- then it makes no sense to spend any more (the world according to Mauro). Mind you, I9m not talking about skimping where skimping would affect the quality of the build. On the contrary. If you had any idea how much I have in the engine itself, you might be surprised. Incidentally, the reason I decided to press forward with the installation of the 289 is that the clutch on my 260 has begun to slip (takes a while to grab). I9m kind of bummed because the 260 is running fine. I think it9s due to the close ratio transmission paired with the tall rear gear. In this regard, is there any adjustment in the clutch of the Tiger? If I could shorten the rod a bit, it might help. Also, I was wondering, is there ANY way to replace a Tiger9s clutch without removing the engine? I9d do that for the time being if I could. Any ideas? Thanks. Mauro On 4/12/10 8:23 PM, "michael king" wrote: > > > On 13 April 2010 09:37, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) wrote: >> Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block >> was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just >> fine. > > Well the AC Cobras and TVR's were probably a fair bit lighter... but i think > clutch life largely depends on how hard you are leaning on the car and how you > take off from the lights.. if driven normally most clutches will give good > service.. if driven "sportingly" i'd go for the stronger options.. as a side > note.. > > Mauro dont fret about the $235 on the clutch.. after you have pulled your > motor out through the top of the car and put it back in i am sure you will > decide that a few more $ for the clucth is worth more than having to go > through a Tiger engine pull sonner than need be. > > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 21:29:12 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'wsamouce'" , Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:47:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron Duke Nothing worse then having a bad day on the Tiger. Most of us have been there at one time or another. If you have clear coat on the paint; the brake fluid might not even touch it. I would recommend you drive the Tiger for at least 20 minuets to make sure all the brake fluid is out of the engine and exhaust system. You may have already done this; if so then kick back with a cold one. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wsamouce Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 5:54 PM To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron I would like to say this happened years ago but it was this last Saturday. I have been having issues with the 7" Girling brake booster for about 2 years now. My car was missing the booster when I bought it and I bought one from a great guy (name withheld). This booster has been off my car three times and back to (the guy) for rebuild and adjustment to try to get it working correctly. It kept applying slight pressure to the brakes which is really bad for gas mileage and brake pads and shoes. The brakes started dragging again shortly after putting it back on the car, I called the guy and told him I give up and am going to buy a new Lockheed booster. He tells me he will send me a 5" Girling booster to replace the 7" booster. I say OK . I received the booster last week and installed it on Saturday. I did some other mild work replacing a brake cylinder and the line that fed it. So, the new booster is on the car and ready for pressure bleeding. I use the Motive pressure bleeder. I pumped the bleeder up to 15 psi and went to bleed the first caliper....gurgle, gurgle.the pressure bleeder just went dry..WTH? There was at least three pints of brake fluid in it too???? I figure that the new booster is bad and all of the fluid went into the "can" of the booster. I pull the "new" booster off and put on a bypass line. I then bleed the brakes with no issues. Now I need to send both boosters back. I then try to start the engine, it cranked and then locks! WTF! The engine hydrolocked, all of the brake fluid was pumped through the booster, up the vacuum line, into the manifold and then the cylinders. I am seriously pissed at this point. I then pulled all of the spark plugs so I can get the damn brake fluid out of the engine. I put lots and lots of paper towels by each hole to hopefully catch the fluid as it is expelled. I hit the starter and with nothing short of explosions, brake fluid is blown all over me, the engine, engine compartment and the front half of the car. I lose it at this point and yell bad things so loud that my son comes out of the house to check on me. Not only am I worried that the engine is damaged but now have a clock ticking of ruining just about all of the paint on my car. A emergency wash down takes place, then soap and water..install the plugs, start the engine (smokes like hell), engine sound Ok..drive directly to the car wash where I spend $10 pressure washing every part of the car. Turns out, engine is OK and I believe all of the paint is safe. Time will tell on that. I changed the oil and filter. Purchased the new Lockheed booster from SS today. Lessoned learned. 1. Disconnect the vacuum line to the manifold when bleeding the system 2. Hand crank the engine if this ever happens again. Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/12/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 12 22:57:57 2010 From: michael king To: "Spridgets" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:20:39 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Confessions of a moron You can always look at it in a positive light.. you gave the car a good wash... you decoked the valves (though you did the heads recently) and you got some good cardio exercise -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 00:30:33 2010 From: Marc James Small To: Tom Prager , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 01:49:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Brake booster At 08:21 PM 4/12/2010, Tom Prager wrote: >I had my original booster rebuilt by White Post Restoration as they >offer a lifetime warranty. > >Tom >9472154 Great folks. Expensive but, what the hey, perfection costs money. Marc msmall@aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 01:31:40 2010 From: michael king To: Marc James Small Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:41:45 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Brake booster > Great folks. Expensive but, what the hey, perfection costs money. > > Marc > Expensive is a comparative term.. much cheaper to have to do something only once.. the pain of the price is forgoten after years of faithful service... that said i dont run boosters on either of my sunbeams. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 07:00:18 2010 From: "Greg Koss" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:20:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Yes, the clutch can be replaced without removing the engine. During my "no money " college days, I replaced the clutch in my driveway, by myself, lying on the ground. The shifter and linkage must be removed from the transmission, the trans must be separated from the bell housing. I believe I may have cut holes in tunnel to access top bolts. Boy! Toploaders are heavy lying on your back. >>> MAURO D'ANGELO 4/12/2010 8:58 PM >>> Thanks. I agree about other cars (TVR and Cobra) weighing less than the Tiger. I understood that Jerry was probably thinking of classic American cars that also used the SBF, like Fairlane, Galaxie, Falcon, Mustang, etc. I have not decided whether to pull the engine from the top or the bottom yet, actually. Either way, please don9t forget that my own time and effort costs me nothing (financially), so until I can afford my own Aston Martin, I plan to rule my own budget with an iron fist, but intelligently. If I can get away with $179 or $235 for a clutch that does absolutely everything I need it to do anything more would just be overkill -- then it makes no sense to spend any more (the world according to Mauro). Mind you, I9m not talking about skimping where skimping would affect the quality of the build. On the contrary. If you had any idea how much I have in the engine itself, you might be surprised. Incidentally, the reason I decided to press forward with the installation of the 289 is that the clutch on my 260 has begun to slip (takes a while to grab). I9m kind of bummed because the 260 is running fine. I think it9s due to the close ratio transmission paired with the tall rear gear. In this regard, is there any adjustment in the clutch of the Tiger? If I could shorten the rod a bit, it might help. Also, I was wondering, is there ANY way to replace a Tiger9s clutch without removing the engine? I9d do that for the time being if I could. Any ideas? Thanks. Mauro On 4/12/10 8:23 PM, "michael king" wrote: > > > On 13 April 2010 09:37, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) wrote: >> Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block >> was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just >> fine. > > Well the AC Cobras and TVR's were probably a fair bit lighter... but i think > clutch life largely depends on how hard you are leaning on the car and how you > take off from the lights.. if driven normally most clutches will give good > service.. if driven "sportingly" i'd go for the stronger options.. as a side > note.. > > Mauro dont fret about the $235 on the clutch.. after you have pulled your > motor out through the top of the car and put it back in i am sure you will > decide that a few more $ for the clucth is worth more than having to go > through a Tiger engine pull sonner than need be. > > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/greg.koss@trw.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 07:32:43 2010 From: "Alvin Johnson" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:54:36 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] In the Clutch The attached observation is just not so---especially if you're still stuck running those damned stupid 288 rear ends---it's like starting in second gear, and when my Tiger was a daily driver, I went through clutches regularly. I once ordered a Ford clutch & pressure plate from McLeod only to have it quickly fail. When I called to complain, their tech guy said that I should've ordered a Sunbeam Tiger clutch---there was some sort of difference in the weights on the pressure plate. They warranteed the Ford piece & the Tiger replacement worked just fine---may still be, for all I know. >> Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block >> was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just >> fine. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:06:23 2010 From: "Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)" To: "MAURO D'ANGELO" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:07:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Mauro, Here are my recommendations based on many years of building SB Fords. I prefer the Centerforce systems because they work, they last and there is considerably LESS effort at the pedal, something my gimped left hip truly appreciates. These numbers are for any Tiger with 157 tooth flywheel. Centerforce I - good up to 250HP Pressure Plate Part # CF360030 Summit Racing price = $134.95 Centerforce II - for 300+ HP Pressure Plate Part # CFT360030 Summit Racing price = $154.50 Both use the same friction plate: Disc #280490 Summit Racing price = $87.75 Always replace your throw-out bearing: N1439 Summit Racing price = $34.75 Unless you have an old transmission input shaft handy, buy the alignment tool 52010 Summit Racing price = $7.99 If your 289 is going to spin past 6500 RPM, I strongly suggest a racing flywheel, as the OEM cast units can shatter. Bugz -----Original Message----- From: MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 8:58 PM To: michael king; Jerry & Maureen (Mo) Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 I have not decided whether to pull the engine from the top or the bottom yet, actually. Either way, please don9t forget that my own time and effort costs me nothing (financially), so until I can afford my own Aston Martin, I plan to rule my own budget with an iron fist, but intelligently. If I can get away with $179 or $235 for a clutch that does absolutely everything I need it to do anything more would just be overkill -- then it makes no sense to spend any more (the world according to Mauro). Mind you, I9m not talking about skimping where skimping would affect the quality of the build. On the contrary. If you had any idea how much I have in the engine itself, you might be surprised. Incidentally, the reason I decided to press forward with the installation of the 289 is that the clutch on my 260 has begun to slip (takes a while to grab). I9m kind of bummed because the 260 is running fine. I think it9s due to the close ratio transmission paired with the tall rear gear. In this regard, is there any adjustment in the clutch of the Tiger? If I could shorten the rod a bit, it might help. Also, I was wondering, is there ANY way to replace a Tiger9s clutch without removing the engine? I9d do that for the time being if I could. Any ideas? Thanks. Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:08:58 2010 From: Carmods@aol.com To: rande@thecia.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:25:11 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Clutch Pilot Bearing rande@thecia.net writes: Has anyone used the newer pilot bearing in their cars? I have always used the ball type pilot bearing. They last much longer and are easier on the transmission input shaft. John Logan _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:09:02 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: Greg.Koss@TRW.COM, TIGERS@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:25:27 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 I think the CAT notes had an article that gave the exact locations to drill holes to get at the top bolts. M In a message dated 4/13/2010 9:00:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Greg.Koss@TRW.COM writes: Yes, the clutch can be replaced without removing the engine. During my "no money " college days, I replaced the clutch in my driveway, by myself, lying on the ground. The shifter and linkage must be removed from the transmission, the trans must be separated from the bell housing. I believe I may have cut holes in tunnel to access top bolts. Boy! Toploaders are heavy lying on your back. >>> MAURO D'ANGELO 4/12/2010 8:58 PM >>> Thanks. I agree about other cars (TVR and Cobra) weighing less than the Tiger. I understood that Jerry was probably thinking of classic American cars that also used the SBF, like Fairlane, Galaxie, Falcon, Mustang, etc. I have not decided whether to pull the engine from the top or the bottom yet, actually. Either way, please don9t forget that my own time and effort costs me nothing (financially), so until I can afford my own Aston Martin, I plan to rule my own budget with an iron fist, but intelligently. If I can get away with $179 or $235 for a clutch that does absolutely everything I need it to do anything more would just be overkill -- then it makes no sense to spend any more (the world according to Mauro). Mind you, I9m not talking about skimping where skimping would affect the quality of the build. On the contrary. If you had any idea how much I have in the engine itself, you might be surprised. Incidentally, the reason I decided to press forward with the installation of the 289 is that the clutch on my 260 has begun to slip (takes a while to grab). I9m kind of bummed because the 260 is running fine. I think it9s due to the close ratio transmission paired with the tall rear gear. In this regard, is there any adjustment in the clutch of the Tiger? If I could shorten the rod a bit, it might help. Also, I was wondering, is there ANY way to replace a Tiger9s clutch without removing the engine? I9d do that for the time being if I could. Any ideas? Thanks. Mauro On 4/12/10 8:23 PM, "michael king" wrote: > > > On 13 April 2010 09:37, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) wrote: >> Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block >> was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just >> fine. > > Well the AC Cobras and TVR's were probably a fair bit lighter... but i think > clutch life largely depends on how hard you are leaning on the car and how you > take off from the lights.. if driven normally most clutches will give good > service.. if driven "sportingly" i'd go for the stronger options.. as a side > note.. > > Mauro dont fret about the $235 on the clutch.. after you have pulled your > motor out through the top of the car and put it back in i am sure you will > decide that a few more $ for the clucth is worth more than having to go > through a Tiger engine pull sonner than need be. > > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/greg.koss@trw.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:51:23 2010 From: "=?utf-8?B?c3Bvb2swMUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA==?=" To: "=?utf-8?B?R3JlZyBLb3Nz?=" ,TIGERS@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Best_Clutch_Kit_289?= Yeah, we all did that trick. At least twice. Then we got a hoist and a lift!! Best, ray Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Greg Koss" Date: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 07:20 Subject: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 To: Yes, the clutch can be replaced without removing the engine. During my "no money " college days, I replaced the clutch in my driveway, by myself, lying on the ground. The shifter and linkage must be removed from the transmission, the trans must be separated from the bell housing. I believe I may have cut holes in tunnel to access top bolts. Boy! Toploaders are heavy lying on your back. >>> MAURO D'ANGELO 4/12/2010 8:58 PM >>> Thanks. I agree about other cars (TVR and Cobra) weighing less than the Tiger. I understood that Jerry was probably thinking of classic American cars that also used the SBF, like Fairlane, Galaxie, Falcon, Mustang, etc. I have not decided whether to pull the engine from the top or the bottom yet, actually. Either way, please don9t forget that my own time and effort costs me nothing (financially), so until I can afford my own Aston Martin, I plan to rule my own budget with an iron fist, but intelligently. If I can get away with $179 or $235 for a clutch that does absolutely everything I need it to do anything more would just be overkill -- then it makes no sense to spend any more (the world according to Mauro). Mind you, I9m not talking about skimping where skimping would affect the quality of the build. On the contrary. If you had any idea how much I have in the engine itself, you might be surprised. Incidentally, the reason I decided to press forward with the installation of the 289 is that the clutch on my 260 has begun to slip (takes a while to grab). I9m kind of bummed because the 260 is running fine. I think it9s due to the close ratio transmission paired with the tall rear gear. In this regard, is there any adjustment in the clutch of the Tiger? If I could shorten the rod a bit, it might help. Also, I was wondering, is there ANY way to replace a Tiger9s clutch without removing the engine? I9d do that for the time being if I could. Any ideas? Thanks. Mauro On 4/12/10 8:23 PM, "michael king" wrote: > > > On 13 April 2010 09:37, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) wrote: >> Seeing as the Tiger is probably the lightest vehicle that the small block >> was ever put in, just about any pressure & clutch plate would work just >> fine. > > Well the AC Cobras and TVR's were probably a fair bit lighter... but i think > clutch life largely depends on how hard you are leaning on the car and how you > take off from the lights.. if driven normally most clutches will give good > service.. if driven "sportingly" i'd go for the stronger options.. as a side > note.. > > Mauro dont fret about the $235 on the clutch.. after you have pulled your > motor out through the top of the car and put it back in i am sure you will > decide that a few more $ for the clucth is worth more than having to go > through a Tiger engine pull sonner than need be. > > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/greg.koss@trw.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 08:53:40 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: Greg Koss , "TIGERS@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:58:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Greg, Did you ever own B382002705? It had two or three big holes cut into the transmission tunnel... I welded patches back in. Not the prettiest job but it's better than the unstoppable draft from the engine compartment. Cheers, Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Koss > Sent: April 13, 2010 6:21 AM > To: TIGERS@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > > Yes, the clutch can be replaced without removing the engine. During my > "no > money " college days, I replaced the clutch in my driveway, by myself, > lying > on the ground. The shifter and linkage must be removed from the > transmission, > the trans must be separated from the bell housing. I believe I may > have cut > holes in tunnel to access top bolts. Boy! Toploaders are heavy lying > on your > back. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 09:35:23 2010 From: "Greg Koss" To: "TIGERS@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:11:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 No, still have all my tigers. >>> "Smit, Theo" 4/13/2010 9:58 AM >>> Greg, Did you ever own B382002705? It had two or three big holes cut into the transmission tunnel... I welded patches back in. Not the prettiest job but it's better than the unstoppable draft from the engine compartment. Cheers, Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Koss > Sent: April 13, 2010 6:21 AM > To: TIGERS@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > > Yes, the clutch can be replaced without removing the engine. During my > "no > money " college days, I replaced the clutch in my driveway, by myself, > lying > on the ground. The shifter and linkage must be removed from the > transmission, > the trans must be separated from the bell housing. I believe I may > have cut > holes in tunnel to access top bolts. Boy! Toploaders are heavy lying > on your > back. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 10:18:30 2010 From: To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 9:59:03 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion I check the archives and did not find a good answer (for me) on this. My 1991 347 has been balanced to 28 oz with a flexplate. The flexplate has a 1" X 2" weight welded to it with some of the material drilled out. I have a 65 6 bolt aluminum bell housing that I will have modified for my toploader. I have the following questions - 1. Is a 157 tooth flywheel correct for this application? 2. I want use a centerforce flywheel, which would be best? 3. Does the engine need to be re-balanced with a flywheel vs. the flexplate? 4. Do I use a 10.5 or 11" clutch? TIA! Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:07:08 2010 From: "Norman C. Miller" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:59:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] HONORING http://gvoqra.bay.livefilestore.com/y1px6er4wLbvfyMeHrmlZzkTwk7MuU1rARISqJHe29HKdJfrnR_tv8WQPVWWfeolmnR8Xsziq7hzY2LOfU8mua_yJEdjCPSern0/memorial.jpg Norm _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:08:28 2010 From: spmdr@juno.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:24:14 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Clutch notes One thing to keep an eye on is the thickness of the disc. If the disc is too thick (squeezable) you run out of travel with the hydraulic system and the clutch engages at the floor. And, Yes, you can change the clutch in the car without pulling the engine. Headers complicate the job, but it's doable. DW ____________________________________________________________ Bad Celebrity surgery! You don't need injections. Look younger with doctor-designed formulas. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc49af77bfe63e445m07vuc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:50:48 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "wsamouce@kc.rr.com" , "TIGERS@autox.team.net" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:39:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion If the 28 oz-in. flexplate was properly in spec (i.e. it has the right mass at the right angular offset relative to the way the crank bolt holes are drilled) then you should be able to substitute a 28 oz-in. flywheel without problems. Balancing the engine requires it to be fully disassembled, so unless you have a reason to think it might not be as specified, it's certainly more excpedient to put it together as-is and see... Then again, it's just a short block at this point, right? If you're not in a rush and want to be sure everything is up to snuff then it's not a lot of extra work to pull it apart. I used an aluminum RAM 157 tooth flywheel on my 5.0. I think that for any uprated application (and really, given the Tiger's flywheel location relative to your feet, it's a good idea for every rebuild) an SFI rated steel or aluminum flywhweel is a must... your choice as to weight. On the 157 tooth flywheel a 10.5" clutch is standard, although some might be drilled with a dual pattern so you can use an 11 inch clutch. I have the Ford Motorsports Cobra clutch on mine and it's heavier than I'd like... Theo > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/theo.smit@dynastream.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 11:51:03 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: wsamouce@kc.rr.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:40:32 +0200 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion based on my own experience (for what its worth...): yes, 157 unless you have a particularly odd bell housing. do you have the part no? no need to rebalance if you are sure its balanced well for 28"oz. not sure about centreforce, but the mcleod flyweels have removable weights for zero, 28, 50"oz balance. billet steel works well unless you really want aluminum. aluminum makes driving the car quite hard, especially with the tiger pedals and your size - better for all out race cars i think. its easier to rev match down shifts with a steel flywheel. i have a steel one and the engine still revs extremely quickly as it breaths well. use a 10" or 10.5" clutch. 10" is actually fine on the tiger but i found the mcleod flywheel was only drilled for 10.5" dowels. it had holes tapped for the 10" pressure plate though so i used it without dowels. it has no vibrations and is smooth. it's taken a good beating for a couple of years (Centreforce II) and is still fine. check the flywheel holes but 10.5" is more common. 10" is stock tiger. no sure about 11" - it might not even fit on a 157 tooth flywheel. On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:59 PM, wrote: > I check the archives and did not find a good answer (for me) on this. > > My 1991 347 has been balanced to 28 oz with a flexplate. The flexplate has > a 1" X 2" weight welded to it with some of the material drilled out. I have > a 65 6 bolt aluminum bell housing that I will have modified for my > toploader. > > I have the following questions - > > 1. Is a 157 tooth flywheel correct for this application? > 2. I want use a centerforce flywheel, which would be best? > 3. Does the engine need to be re-balanced with a flywheel vs. the > flexplate? > 4. Do I use a 10.5 or 11" clutch? > > TIA! > > Duke > B382002037 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 12:33:09 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:08:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion Duke I have never gone through the balancing process but I highly recommend it. I suggest you talk to a shop that does that kind of work. Early V8s were balanced to 28 oz; beginning in 1985 balance was changed to 50 oz. My 260 flywheel has a casting # C3OE-6380B and the ring gear is 13.25" OD, Ford P/N is C4OZ-6375-A clutch disc is 10" OD, Ford P/N is C3OZ-7550-A I don't have much information about flywheels and bellhousings; so I suggest you assemble the flywheel and bellhousing on the engine and see if the starter engages the flywheel. Actually you can do this with the flywheel, clutch cover plate and the starter. If the starter will engage the ring gear correctly your OK; if not you need a different flywheel. Hope this helps some. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wsamouce@kc.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion I check the archives and did not find a good answer (for me) on this. My 1991 347 has been balanced to 28 oz with a flexplate. The flexplate has a 1" X 2" weight welded to it with some of the material drilled out. I have a 65 6 bolt aluminum bell housing that I will have modified for my toploader. I have the following questions - 1. Is a 157 tooth flywheel correct for this application? 2. I want use a centerforce flywheel, which would be best? 3. Does the engine need to be re-balanced with a flywheel vs. the flexplate? 4. Do I use a 10.5 or 11" clutch? TIA! Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2806 - Release Date: 04/13/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:19:21 2010 From: "wsamouce" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:55:18 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion - MORE INFO Here are the two document I received with the engine. This should answer some questions. http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/Image16.jpg http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/Image17.jpg Thanks! Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 13:29:20 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:12:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] HONORING I never personally met Dick Barker. I did however have correspondence with him when I bought my Tiger. The car had been stored at Smitty's and he was familiar with it. Dick took the time to relay a rather amusing story of how this near basket case was brought to Smitty's and the PO had thought $5,000 would have restored it. Thus, when Dick found out the car had gotten into my hands he seemed to take an interest in this extensive project. I certainly appreciated his encouragement knowing the task that lay ahead. Even after he left the list as a regular I sporadically heard from him and again his words encouraged. My condolences to his family and friends who knew him well. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:13:43 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: "Norman C. Miller" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:56:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] HONORING Dick Barker Thanks to Norman for the honorarium to a great Tiger Enthusiast, Dick Barker. The his car shown is the Tiger Le Mans Mule test bed. TigersUnited.com has a great many references to Dick, which can be found with the SEARCH magnifying glass at the header bar. Just enter his name. Here is one link by Dick, amongst many: http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/barker_d/default.asp Dick, it was a genuine pleasure in knowing you. Steve Laifman Norman C. Miller wrote: > http://gvoqra.bay.livefilestore.com/y1px6er4wLbvfyMeHrmlZzkTwk7MuU1rARISqJHe29HKdJfrnR_tv8WQPVWWfeolmnR8Xsziq7hzY2LOfU8mua_yJEdjCPSern0/memorial.jpg > > > Norm _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:15:17 2010 From: George Re To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:10:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Rubber plugs? Hello has anyone come up with a list of what size holes are in the body and need to be pluged and how any of each size? Thanks George _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 14:16:04 2010 From: David Sosna To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:28:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] HONORING Norm: That was a nice thing you did. Best Regards David Sosna Norman C. Miller wrote: > http://gvoqra.bay.livefilestore.com/y1px6er4wLbvfyMeHrmlZzkTwk7MuU1rARISqJHe29HKdJfrnR_tv8WQPVWWfeolmnR8Xsziq7hzY2LOfU8mua_yJEdjCPSern0/memorial.jpg > > > Norm > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5026 (20100413) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 16:27:20 2010 From: George Re To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:40:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. Hi group I have started work on my rear springs and found some leafs broken does anyone know if there are new available or do I need to get them made? If they need to be made does anyone know of a spring shop some where around the Dutchess County,NY area. Thanks Again George _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 17:12:05 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:17:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion I also have a 1991 engine (roller blocks the only way to go); I used the stock 50oz weight. The only problem I see with yours is when it was balanced they may have drilled on the flexplate to get the balance correct (as evidenced by fresh drilling on the offset weight bar) if that is the case then installing a flywheel would upset the balance as the new wheel would not have the new "balance" as the flexplate did. As another lister suggested you might be better off to have it rebalanced with the flywheel this time. Something I had done when mine was balanced was to balance everything in the engine first without the pressure plate (clutchplate), and then balance with the pressureplate on and any differences in weight was taken off the pressureplate. That way whenever I change the clutch out it would not have as much effect on the balance of the engine. Granted a new pressureplate might be a little off, but it's been on there 10 years so far. It would be nice if the "balancers" had a way of balancing a clutchplate by itself to "0" that way you would have no problem on changing out clutchplates. Hope this helps Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wsamouce@kc.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:59 AM To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion I check the archives and did not find a good answer (for me) on this. My 1991 347 has been balanced to 28 oz with a flexplate. The flexplate has a 1" X 2" weight welded to it with some of the material drilled out. I have a 65 6 bolt aluminum bell housing that I will have modified for my toploader. I have the following questions - 1. Is a 157 tooth flywheel correct for this application? 2. I want use a centerforce flywheel, which would be best? 3. Does the engine need to be re-balanced with a flywheel vs. the flexplate? 4. Do I use a 10.5 or 11" clutch? TIA! Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 17:56:29 2010 From: michael king To: wsamouce Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:06:52 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion - MORE INFO Duke, Which scat crank and which rods? On 14 April 2010 03:55, wsamouce wrote: > Here are the two document I received with the engine. > > This should answer some questions. > > > http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/Image16.jpg > > http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/samouce/Image17.jpg > > Thanks! > > Duke > B382002037 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 18:38:48 2010 From: spook01@comcast.net To: "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:17:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion you don't need a full rebalance no matter what. only the harmonic, crank, flywheel. if you don't spot drilling use the wheel as is. you might want to call wherever the crate engine came from and ask if they did any stuff to the wheel. Energy Management is the hallmark of a professional pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" To: wsamouce@kc.rr.com, TIGERS@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:17:23 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion I also have a 1991 engine (roller blocks the only way to go); I used the stock 50oz weight. The only problem I see with yours is when it was balanced they may have drilled on the flexplate to get the balance correct (as evidenced by fresh drilling on the offset weight bar) if that is the case then installing a flywheel would upset the balance as the new wheel would not have the new "balance" as the flexplate did. As another lister suggested you might be better off to have it rebalanced with the flywheel this time. Something I had done when mine was balanced was to balance everything in the engine first without the pressure plate (clutchplate), and then balance with the pressureplate on and any differences in weight was taken off the pressureplate. B That way whenever I change the clutch out it would not have as much effect on the balance of the engine. Granted a new pressureplate might be a little off, but it's been on there 10 years so far. It would be nice if the "balancers" had a way of balancing a clutchplate by itself to "0" that way you would have no problem on changing out clutchplates. Hope this helps Jerry Christopherson 9473187 B B B B -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wsamouce@kc.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:59 AM To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion I check the archives and did not find a good answer (for me) on this. My 1991 347 has been balanced to 28 oz with a flexplate. B The flexplate has a 1" X 2" weight welded to it with some of the material drilled out. B I have a 65 6 bolt aluminum bell housing that I will have modified for my toploader. I have the following questions - 1. Is a 157 tooth flywheel correct for this application? 2. I want use a centerforce flywheel, which would be best? 3. Does the engine need to be re-balanced with a flywheel vs. the flexplate? 4. Do I use a 10.5 or 11" clutch? TIA! Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/spook01@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 18:45:29 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:57:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Long or diaphragm clutch pressure plate??? Hi all, OK, so I am getting closer to deciding on a clutch for my Tiger... Now I have just two questions left. First, is anyone running a diaphragm pressure plate? I think Doug Jennings recommended that over the stock Long one. I meant to call him today but did not have a chance. Anyone have any idea if the diaphragm is better than the stock Long type? Second question: I'm looking at the RAM Muscle Car clutch (Long) and the McLeod 75113 (diaphragm) at Summit Racing. The Ram has a 10.5 inch disc, and the McLeod a 10 inch disc. Will the 10.5 inch work with my stock 160 (157) tooth flywheel? Is there any noticeable benefit to going with the larger disc? I wish this were an easy decision! Thanks a lot for the help! Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 20:12:22 2010 From: Jim To: MAURO D'ANGELO Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:05:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Long or diaphragm clutch pressure plate??? Mauro I highly recommend the Centerforce dual friction diaphram . Less pedal pressure than the 'long' style . I've had mine for 2 Years... 1 year with stock 2.32 top Loader... 1 year with 2.95 T 5... No problem at all ! Stock flywheel with 157T ring gear and 400 hp Jim Sent from my iPhone On 2010-04-13, at 4:57 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > Hi all, > > OK, so I am getting closer to deciding on a clutch for my Tiger... > Now I > have just two questions left. First, is anyone running a diaphragm > pressure > plate? I think Doug Jennings recommended that over the stock Long > one. I > meant to call him today but did not have a chance. Anyone have any > idea if > the diaphragm is better than the stock Long type? > > Second question: I'm looking at the RAM Muscle Car clutch (Long) > and the > McLeod 75113 (diaphragm) at Summit Racing. The Ram has a 10.5 inch > disc, > and the McLeod a 10 inch disc. Will the 10.5 inch work with my > stock 160 > (157) tooth flywheel? Is there any noticeable benefit to going with > the > larger disc? I wish this were an easy decision! > > Thanks a lot for the help! > > Mauro > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 20:59:02 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:35:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Long or diaphragm clutch pressure plate??? Mauro It is my understanding that the diaphragm style applies more even pressure to the disc, works better over a larger rpm range and has a lighter clutch action. The long style has 3 arms that release the clutch disc; can be stiff to clutch at high rpm and generally has a heavier clutch action. The diaphragm style clutch is the current choice in most of today's cars. Pressure plate is generally the same diameter and the disc plate; measure your pressure plate. A larger disc has more surface area and will handle more Torque. I would go for a diaphragm style if I was replacing my clutch and most likely the Centerforce kit. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:58 PM To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Long or diaphragm clutch pressure plate??? Hi all, OK, so I am getting closer to deciding on a clutch for my Tiger... Now I have just two questions left. First, is anyone running a diaphragm pressure plate? I think Doug Jennings recommended that over the stock Long one. I meant to call him today but did not have a chance. Anyone have any idea if the diaphragm is better than the stock Long type? Second question: I'm looking at the RAM Muscle Car clutch (Long) and the McLeod 75113 (diaphragm) at Summit Racing. The Ram has a 10.5 inch disc, and the McLeod a 10 inch disc. Will the 10.5 inch work with my stock 160 (157) tooth flywheel? Is there any noticeable benefit to going with the larger disc? I wish this were an easy decision! Thanks a lot for the help! Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2806 - Release Date: 04/13/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:00:11 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'George Re'" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:37:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rubber plugs? George I believe Sunbeam Specialties sell a kit that covers just about all of the holes Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Re Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:10 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Rubber plugs? Hello has anyone come up with a list of what size holes are in the body and need to be pluged and how any of each size? Thanks George _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2806 - Release Date: 04/13/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 21:00:20 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'George Re'" , Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:42:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. George As long as the main spring is OK; any spring shop can probably help you. I believe Dale's Restoration has springs and sometimes CAT has them in stock, if you're a member. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Re Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:40 PM To: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. Hi group I have started work on my rear springs and found some leafs broken does anyone know if there are new available or do I need to get them made? If they need to be made does anyone know of a spring shop some where around the Dutchess County,NY area. Thanks Again George _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2806 - Release Date: 04/13/10 06:32:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 22:24:28 2010 From: michael king To: rfraser@bluefrog.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:13:26 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. I have dale's, he offers 2 versions of uprated spring. Tom Hall modtiger also supplies springs IIRC On 14 April 2010 11:42, Ron Fraser wrote: > George > As long as the main spring is OK; any spring shop can probably help > you. > I believe Dale's Restoration has springs and sometimes CAT has them in > stock, if you're a member. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of George Re > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:40 PM > To: Tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. > > > Hi group I have started work on my rear springs and found some leafs broken > does anyone know if there > are new available or do I need to get them made? If they need to be made > does anyone know of a spring > shop some where around the Dutchess County,NY area. > > > Thanks Again > George > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2806 - Release Date: 04/13/10 > 06:32:00 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 13 22:25:18 2010 From: AAAGLASSS@aol.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:27:43 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Fulcrum Pins Who has the best ones??? _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 06:21:24 2010 From: "Robert J. Wanty" To: "michael king" , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:18:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. I bought a pair from I believe it was Victoria British but they seem over sprung by an inch or two. Bob B382001318 -----Original Message----- From: michael king [mailto:michael.s.king@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 11:13 PM To: rfraser@bluefrog.com Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. I have dale's, he offers 2 versions of uprated spring. Tom Hall modtiger also supplies springs IIRC On 14 April 2010 11:42, Ron Fraser wrote: > George > As long as the main spring is OK; any spring shop can probably help > you. > I believe Dale's Restoration has springs and sometimes CAT has them in > stock, if you're a member. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of George Re > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:40 PM > To: Tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. > > > Hi group I have started work on my rear springs and found some leafs broken > does anyone know if there > are new available or do I need to get them made? If they need to be made > does anyone know of a spring > shop some where around the Dutchess County,NY area. > > > Thanks Again > George > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2806 - Release Date: 04/13/10 > 06:32:00 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rjw@wengco.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 06:22:10 2010 From: "Wally Menke" To: "'Alvin Johnson'" , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:27:39 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] In the Clutch The problems not the 2.88 rear end, it's the close ratio gears in the box that makes 1st hard to get off the line and go forever. For normal driving this is not real suitable. The solution is to fit the wide ratio gears like the MkII, which are easy to find. You can sell the close ratio gears to the vintage racers who will pay good $$. Wally Menke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Alvin Johnson Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2010 10:55 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] In the Clutch The attached observation is just not so---especially if you're still stuck running those damned stupid 288 rear ends---it's like starting in second gear, and when my Tiger was a daily driver, I went through clutches regularly. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5027 (20100414) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 06:22:22 2010 From: "Wally Menke" To: , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:34:49 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion Duke With a 347 go with the 164? bigger flywheel that the 11" clutch will fit to. The extra size will make a long term difference with the increase in torque you will get. You will need the bigger / later bell housing as well. It all fits into the car. Wally Menke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wsamouce@kc.rr.com Sent: Wednesday, 14 April 2010 12:59 AM To: TIGERS@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Balancing and flywheel confusion I check the archives and did not find a good answer (for me) on this. My 1991 347 has been balanced to 28 oz with a flexplate. The flexplate has a 1" X 2" weight welded to it with some of the material drilled out. I have a 65 6 bolt aluminum bell housing that I will have modified for my toploader. I have the following questions - 1. Is a 157 tooth flywheel correct for this application? 2. I want use a centerforce flywheel, which would be best? 3. Does the engine need to be re-balanced with a flywheel vs. the flexplate? 4. Do I use a 10.5 or 11" clutch? TIA! Duke B382002037 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/walmenke@bigpond.net.au __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5027 (20100414) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5027 (20100414) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 09:54:32 2010 From: Jeffrey Nichols To: mgman71@comcast.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Leaf Springs Hi, Which springs are broken? On my car it was the main leaf spring and was broken above the axel on both sides. According to people I talked to it was unusual to have broken leaf springs. I think it happened because of axel hop when accelerating. My car doesn't have traction bars. Depending on what vin you have, Alpine springs are used on the Tiger. Later vins used a different spring from the Alpine according to the parts book. My car has springs from Dale Azk.... and they work well. They are stiffer than stock and have a extra half leaf to eliminate axel hop. Victoria British sells leaf springs for the Tiger and are very well made and look very much like stock springs. Those are made in the UK by British Spring. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 10:39:08 2010 From: "Teepen, Jere" To: "rfraser@bluefrog.com" , 'George Re' Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:25:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. CAT does not have rear springs, or front springs. Only pedal springs... lots of them. Dale's Restorations has a few options on rear springs as does Tom Hall and Rob Guerra via Mod Tiger. Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:43 PM To: 'George Re'; Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. George As long as the main spring is OK; any spring shop can probably help you. I believe Dale's Restoration has springs and sometimes CAT has them in stock, if you're a member. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Re Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:40 PM To: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Looking for reas springs. Hi group I have started work on my rear springs and found some leafs broken does anyone know if there are new available or do I need to get them made? If they need to be made does anyone know of a spring shop some where around the Dutchess County,NY area. Thanks Again George _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:10:55 2010 From: Joel Martin To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] 130 Gunmetal (Metallic) Does anyone have a car painted with paint code 130 Gunmetal (Metallic) that they could share some pictures and the PPG paint code? Thanks Joel Martin _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 13:56:55 2010 From: Joel Martin To: Tiger List Serve Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again The links to the Ford Engine Colors was excellent as well as the Mustang Monthly article, thanks for that. http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/173_0308_paints_engines/index.html My motor seems to be a hybrid of sorts. 6 bolt - 1965 or 1966 block with the 3/8" rod bolts, 1964 intake, 1963 Autolite 4100 600 CFM carb. Appears to be 289 HiPo configuration, screw in studs and spring seats in the head. The transmission was a 1964 close ratio but has been changed to wide ratio 2,3,4 and counter with a new larger bearing retainer cover to fit the 8 bolt alumiumn bell housing. 4 holes will have to be drilled and tapped to accomodate the 1964 transmission case for the bell housing. My best guess at this point is the Old Ford Dark Blue - Duplicolor DE 1601 (According to BON) based on MK 1 from ~ B382000601 to end. My question is this: Do you paint based on the year of the car or the year of the motor? Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 15:24:31 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Joel Martin'" , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:38:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] 130 Gunmetal (Metallic) Joel Here are the numbers I have for this color. 130 Gunmetal metallic Ditzler # 32712 Chrysler # 75242896 Berger Code 404.3504 Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joel Martin Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:07 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] 130 Gunmetal (Metallic) Does anyone have a car painted with paint code 130 Gunmetal (Metallic) that they could share some pictures and the PPG paint code? Thanks Joel Martin _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/14/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 16:02:36 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Joel Martin'" , "'Tiger List Serve'" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:08:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Joel The color of the engines in the B19KC engine group was determined by Ford. The Original engine ID tag would indicate if it was a 65 build painted black or a 66 build painted blue. I believe your engine number puts it well into the 66 build painted blue. I have seen pictures of B19KC engines that appear to be much darker than DE-1601 and I have seen pictures that the blue looks much lighter. I do not have a clear determination of the original blue paint on the B19KC engines. It is your Tiger, paint the engine the color you like best. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joel Martin Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:28 PM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again The links to the Ford Engine Colors was excellent as well as the Mustang Monthly article, thanks for that. http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/173_0308_paints_engines/index.html My motor seems to be a hybrid of sorts. 6 bolt - 1965 or 1966 block with the 3/8" rod bolts, 1964 intake, 1963 Autolite 4100 600 CFM carb. Appears to be 289 HiPo configuration, screw in studs and spring seats in the head. The transmission was a 1964 close ratio but has been changed to wide ratio 2,3,4 and counter with a new larger bearing retainer cover to fit the 8 bolt alumiumn bell housing. 4 holes will have to be drilled and tapped to accomodate the 1964 transmission case for the bell housing. My best guess at this point is the Old Ford Dark Blue - Duplicolor DE 1601 (According to BON) based on MK 1 from ~ B382000601 to end. My question is this: Do you paint based on the year of the car or the year of the motor? Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2808 - Release Date: 04/14/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 17:31:05 2010 From: michael king To: Joel Martin Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:36:43 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] 130 Gunmetal (Metallic) Joel, I have some pics of some alpines and tigers in gunmetal.. nice colour esp with red interior! On 15 April 2010 04:07, Joel Martin wrote: > Does anyone have a car painted with paint code 130 Gunmetal (Metallic) that > they could share some pictures and the PPG paint code? > > Thanks > Joel Martin > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 21:02:53 2010 From: David T Johnson To: Tiger List Serve , Joel Martin Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 19:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Check the BON again. Old Ford Blue (corporate Ford Blue) is DE 1606. --- On Wed, 4/14/10, Joel Martin wrote: From: Joel Martin Subject: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again To: "Tiger List Serve" Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 6:28 PM The links to the Ford Engine Colors was excellent as well as the Mustang Monthly article, thanks for that. http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/173_0308_paints_engines/index.html My motor seems to be a hybrid of sorts. 6 bolt - 1965 or 1966 block with the 3/8" rod bolts, 1964 intake, 1963 Autolite 4100 600 CFM carb. Appears to be 289 HiPo configuration, screw in studs and spring seats in the head. The transmission was a 1964 close ratio but has been changed to wide ratio 2,3,4 and counter with a new larger bearing retainer cover to fit the 8 bolt alumiumn bell housing. 4 holes will have to be drilled and tapped to accomodate the 1964 transmission case for the bell housing. My best guess at this point is the Old Ford Dark Blue - Duplicolor DE 1601 (According to BON) based on MK 1 from ~ B382000601 to end. My question is this: Do you paint based on the year of the car or the year of the motor? Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/djoh797014@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 14 22:47:39 2010 From: "Bob Hokanson" To: "Tigers" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:49:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 If you're going to get serious about performance, I highly recommend a blowproof (scattershield) bellhousing. Take a look sometime at how close your right foot is to that thin piece of tin that separates you from the soft aluminum bellhousing containing that 13 in diameter cast iron buzz saw disguised as a flywheel. Remember it the next time you side step the clutch at 6500 rpm. Or, if you're the type who would rather dote on the proper hose clamp, disregard. Bob H > If your 289 is going to spin past 6500 RPM, I strongly suggest a racing > flywheel, as the OEM cast units can shatter. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 05:17:31 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Bob Hokanson , Tigers Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:24:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Hello. My 289 engine will only give me about 300 horsepower the way it is built. I really do not plan to race this car because, personally, I don't consider the Tiger chassis to be a very agile or reliable. In fact, I would likely choose one of my Porsche cars to race, if and when I ever do decide to race again. The Porsche 911 has a truly great chassis. The Porsche, unlike the Tiger, is a car that feels like it becomes "a part" of me, which makes it very intuitive to drive. Add to that that I live in a small town where there are only eight local cops who are extremely vigilant and strictly mind the low speed limits. While I have some original English hose clamps, I prefer to use modern hose clamps. In my own case, I think the risk of a fuel leak and fire is probably higher than a disintegrating flywheel! Cheers. Mauro On 4/14/10 11:49 PM, "Bob Hokanson" wrote: > If you're going to get serious about performance, I highly recommend a > blowproof (scattershield) bellhousing. > Take a look sometime at how close your right foot is to that thin piece of > tin that separates you from the soft aluminum bellhousing containing that 13 > in diameter cast iron buzz saw disguised as a flywheel. Remember it the next > time you side step the clutch at 6500 rpm. > Or, if you're the type who would rather dote on the proper hose clamp, > disregard. > > Bob H > >> If your 289 is going to spin past 6500 RPM, I strongly suggest a racing >> flywheel, as the OEM cast units can shatter. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 08:41:12 2010 From: "Robin Young" To: "'Bob Hokanson'" , "'Tigers'" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:47:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Some time before I owned my car, it had the clutch explode. The passenger side of the tunnel was badly torn and distorted to the point the false floor would not fit. The PO did a poor repair on the tunnel but installed a Lakewood scatter shield. I have since corrected the damage and take a lot of comfort in knowing the scatter shield is in place. Robin Young If you're going to get serious about performance, I highly recommend a blowproof (scattershield) bellhousing. Take a look sometime at how close your right foot is to that thin piece of tin that separates you from the soft aluminum bellhousing containing that 13 in diameter cast iron buzz saw disguised as a flywheel. Remember it the next time you side step the clutch at 6500 rpm. Or, if you're the type who would rather dote on the proper hose clamp, disregard. Bob H > If your 289 is going to spin past 6500 RPM, I strongly suggest a racing > flywheel, as the OEM cast units can shatter. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 08:41:49 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: MAURO D'ANGELO , Bob Hokanson Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:54:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 Hi Mauro, Don't forget that 300 horsepower is double what the original 260 put out. In that situation, the best place for an original cast-iron flywheel is inside the box that your new steel flywheel came in. If you've spent money on your engine (and it sounds like you have, based on a previous post) then the extra $250 to $400 for a brand-new steel or aluminum flywheel is cheap insurance against a Very Bad thing. Cheers, Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO > Sent: April 15, 2010 4:25 AM > To: Bob Hokanson; Tigers > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > > Hello. My 289 engine will only give me about 300 horsepower the way it > is > built. I really do not plan to race this car because, personally, I > don't > consider the Tiger chassis to be a very agile or reliable. In fact, I > would > likely choose one of my Porsche cars to race, if and when I ever do > decide > to race again. The Porsche 911 has a truly great chassis. The Porsche, > unlike the Tiger, is a car that feels like it becomes "a part" of me, > which > makes it very intuitive to drive. Add to that that I live in a small > town > where there are only eight local cops who are extremely vigilant and > strictly mind the low speed limits. While I have some original English > hose > clamps, I prefer to use modern hose clamps. In my own case, I think > the > risk of a fuel leak and fire is probably higher than a disintegrating > flywheel! Cheers. > > Mauro ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 09:47:47 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: Theo.Smit@dynastream.com, m_dangelo@verizon.net, tgrrr@peoplepc.com, Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:51:21 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints There has been lots of chatter on exploding flywheels, but almost nothing on failed driveshaft u-joints. Some time back a lister was explaining the dangers of the front u-joint letting go. If you look at that location you can see that a loose, rattling driveshaft will have a very good chance of tearing out the brake and fuel line. It's something I'd like to address this summer. So, what have people used for solutions? Mark _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 10:46:13 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "CoolVT@aol.com" , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:53:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints Larry Paulick , I'm sure among others, has installed a driveshaft safety loop. http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShaftLoop/pt-PaulickShaftLoop1.as p Theo From: CoolVT@aol.com [mailto:CoolVT@aol.com] Sent: April 15, 2010 8:51 AM To: Smit, Theo; m_dangelo@verizon.net; tgrrr@peoplepc.com; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints There has been lots of chatter on exploding flywheels, but almost nothing on failed driveshaft u-joints. Some time back a lister was explaining the dangers of the front u-joint letting go. If you look at that location you can see that a loose, rattling driveshaft will have a very good chance of tearing out the brake and fuel line. It's something I'd like to address this summer. So, what have people used for solutions? Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 10:46:23 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: Theo.Smit@dynastream.com, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:04:55 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints >From the picture on the first page it seems the universal could still hit the gas/brake lines in event of failure. Maybe the picture is misleading? At 1/4" it's certainly strong enough to prevent it dropping to the ground. I know of a new car that had that happen within the first few hundred miles. M In a message dated 4/15/2010 11:53:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Theo.Smit@dynastream.com writes: Larry Paulick , Ibm sure among others, has installed a driveshaft safety loop. _http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShaftLoop/pt-PaulickShaftLoop1. asp_ (http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShaftLoop/pt-PaulickShaftLoop1.a sp) Theo From: CoolVT@aol.com [mailto:CoolVT@aol.com] Sent: April 15, 2010 8:51 AM To: Smit, Theo; m_dangelo@verizon.net; tgrrr@peoplepc.com; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints There has been lots of chatter on exploding flywheels, but almost nothing on failed driveshaft u-joints. Some time back a lister was explaining the dangers of the front u-joint letting go. If you look at that location you can see that a loose, rattling driveshaft will have a very good chance of tearing out the brake and fuel line. It's something I'd like to address this summer. So, what have people used for solutions? Mark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 11:15:09 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "CoolVT@aol.com" , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:26:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints The hard part about doing a driveshaft loop is that you need to leave enough clearance around the driveshaft, so that you have some allowance for engine/trans and suspension movement. The pragmatic solution is to reroute the fuel and brake lines so theybre away from the immediate destruction zone, and then put in the loop to contain the driveshaft. Alternatively, you can put in the loop the way Larry did, and then add a secondary shield (possibly made of thinner material) right at the U-joint location to keep the lines protected. If you were to add a shield of say 1/8b plate by about 3 inches wide to extend from the top of the tunnel down to a few inches below the fuel and brake lines, then that would likely protect the lines for the amount of time it took you to come to a stop. When I re-plumbed the fuel system for 3/8b lines (feed and return) for the EFI system, I initially ran both fuel lines and the brake line through the tunnel. It turned out that the lines were just way too close to the U-jointb& even a slight amount of sideways movement of the transmission would have caused the lines to get hit by the U-joint. When I re-did the lines again, I moved the feed line so it runs about a foot inboard of the passenger rocker panel. Given the overall clearances in the tunnel for the brake line and the fuel return line I should have moved everything out there. Maybe the next time I have that part of the car substantially in pieces Ibll do that. Back on the scattershield thing, Quicktime has probably the best parts out there right now, from a Tiger perspective. They have multiple units to fit various engine/transmission combinations, and they fit closely around the clutch so that you have more header and transmission tunnel clearance. Havenbt got one myself, yet, but it looks like a very worthwhile upgrade. Theo From: CoolVT@aol.com [mailto:CoolVT@aol.com] Sent: April 15, 2010 10:05 AM To: Smit, Theo; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints >From the picture on the first page it seems the universal could still hit the gas/brake lines in event of failure. Maybe the picture is misleading? At 1/4" it's certainly strong enough to prevent it dropping to the ground. I know of a new car that had that happen within the first few hundred miles. M In a message dated 4/15/2010 11:53:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Theo.Smit@dynastream.com writes: Larry Paulick , Ibm sure among others, has installed a driveshaft safety loop. http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShaftLoop/pt-PaulickShaftLoop1.asp Theo From: CoolVT@aol.com [mailto:CoolVT@aol.com] Sent: April 15, 2010 8:51 AM To: Smit, Theo; m_dangelo@verizon.net; tgrrr@peoplepc.com; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints There has been lots of chatter on exploding flywheels, but almost nothing on failed driveshaft u-joints. Some time back a lister was explaining the dangers of the front u-joint letting go. If you look at that location you can see that a loose, rattling driveshaft will have a very good chance of tearing out the brake and fuel line. It's something I'd like to address this summer. So, what have people used for solutions? Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 11:15:42 2010 From: "Robin Young" To: , , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:35:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints Larry Paulick did some nice engineering on this subject and posted his fix on TIgersunited. RObin There has been lots of chatter on exploding flywheels, but almost nothing on failed driveshaft u-joints. Some time back a lister was explaining the dangers of the front u-joint letting go. If you look at that location you can see that a loose, rattling driveshaft will have a very good chance of tearing out the brake and fuel line. It's something I'd like to address this summer. So, what have people used for solutions? Mark _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 11:15:54 2010 From: Dave Munroe To: "Smit, Theo" , tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:37:00 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) You guys are scaring me half to death with your tales of flywheel explosions, and brought back some traumatic memories. Back in the days of my mis-spent youth, I used to drag race motorcycles. At my home strip, they would bracket-run the fastest car against the fastest bike at the end of the day. I occasionally was riding the fastest bike. One day I was bracket racing against a street rod. Typically, fast bikes back then would come out of the hole and get 3/4 of the way down the strip before the fast rods would get on the boil. Then, when the line was in sight, the bike would be nearly tapped out when the rod would go by so fast it would just about suck the rider off the seat. On this fateful day, just before the rod was about to blow by me, the flywheel let go. He had a 180 scatter shield installed, which likely saved his life, but the lower half was unprotected, and the steel shrapnel hit the pavement and flew off just behind me. I was lucky: one of the spectators hanging along the fence was not. He took a piece right in the center of his forehead, and was never the same again. If you are playing with high revs and big horsepower, you never want to see what happens when a cast wheel decides to let go. Now I have to go and ponder my decisions related to my flywheel. Thanks ( I think) for the reminder! Dave From: "Smit, Theo" To: "MAURO D'ANGELO" ; "Bob Hokanson" ; "Tigers" <> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 > Hi Mauro, > Don't forget that 300 horsepower is double what the original 260 put out. > In > that situation, the best place for an original cast-iron flywheel is > inside > the box that your new steel flywheel came in. > > If you've spent money on your engine (and it sounds like you have, based > on a > previous post) then the extra $250 to $400 for a brand-new steel or > aluminum > flywheel is cheap insurance against a Very Bad thing. > > Cheers, > Theo _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 11:45:37 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: Dave Munroe , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:49:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) I haven't seen a flywheel explode, but I've seen a couple of blown clutch pressure plates, a driveshaft pretzeled, and a brake disc failure. Seen pictures of damage done by a fan that shed blades. I don't recall what damage the pressure plate did to the car (besides leading them to DNF again and leaving a bunch of totally heat-checked shrapnel under the car), but the driveshaft failure was caused by the transmission somehow engaging two gears when the car was at about 90 or 100 MPH on the front straight at Race City. The driveshaft buckled, kicked the entire passenger floor up about four or five inches, and then locked up the rear end, which sent the car into the grass just beyond the end of the pit wall. Ten yards earlier and he would have hit the wall. The brake disc was machined beyond any reasonable thickness limit, and when it got hot and the brakes were applied, a piece let go and locked the disc to the caliper. The strut was nearly ripped right off the car (240Z). If rotating stuff is suddenly made to stop, or if it can shed pieces, it will do a lot of damage... Theo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 12:21:32 2010 From: "Brad Huff" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:45:46 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Paint color behind the grille Can anyone advise me the proper color of the front side of the radiator core support and the area behind the grille should be on a 65 Mk !A. The entire area was repainted red and I am now wishing to restore it to original. I believe it is probably supposed to be black and if so, how far forward does the black come before it returns to the body color? Thank you in advance.-Brad _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 12:22:05 2010 From: DAVID GREEN To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:49:10 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Hello from Tucson, Does anyone have the paint color formula for Midnight Blue #58 and any pictures of a car with this color so we can see what it looks like. Thanks Dave green 14 Alpines 2 Mk1 Tigers _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 12:52:21 2010 From: m_dangelo@verizon.net To: Theo.Smit@dynastream.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:03:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) Hi. This is all very interesting, but how common a problem is this in reality, statistically? I mean, how many cars are out there (Tiger/TVR/Cobra/Mustang/Fairlane/Galaxie/Falcon, etc.) that are still running their original flywheels? Are they all really in danger? If one were planning to drag race a car like these, of course it would seem to make sense to change out the flywheel, but for street cars, when was the last time anyone heard of a flywheel disintegrating? I honestly can say that I have never even heard of such an incident on a street. I think it would be interesting to understand how grave an issue this really is before spending money to buy a new flywheel. Regarding the scattershield, is this a replacement for the bell housing, or is it something like a bell housing helmet, covering it? How many of you out there have scattershields on your cars? How many of you have ever seen a scattershield? I never have, but my experience with American motors is relatively short (outside of Jeeps). Thanks. Mauro Apr 15, 2010 12:46:34 PM, Theo.Smit@dynastream.com wrote: I haven't seen a flywheel explode, but I've seen a couple of blown clutch pressure plates, a driveshaft pretzeled, and a brake disc failure. Seen pictures of damage done by a fan that shed blades. I don't recall what damage the pressure plate did to the car (besides leading them to DNF again and leaving a bunch of totally heat-checked shrapnel under the car), but the driveshaft failure was caused by the transmission somehow engaging two gears when the car was at about 90 or 100 MPH on the front straight at Race City. The driveshaft buckled, kicked the entire passenger floor up about four or five inches, and then locked up the rear end, which sent the car into the grass just beyond the end of the pit wall. Ten yards earlier and he would have hit the wall. The brake disc was machined beyond any reasonable thickness limit, and when it got hot and the brakes were applied, a piece let go and locked the disc to the caliper. The strut was nearly ripped right off the car (240Z). If rotating stuff is suddenly made to stop, or if it can shed pieces, it will do a lot of damage... Theo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 13:30:59 2010 From: Gary To: "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) To all, I suggest we distinguish between drivetrain failures that occasionally happen on the race course where the engine/drivetrain is running consistently between 4000-7000 rpms for long durations and those failures that rarely happen during the occasional spirited drive on a windy road. Some people are unnecessarily worried they're going to lose a leg picking up groceries. Gary _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:02:16 2010 From: Joseph Rebelo To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Anybody know more about the white RHD Tiger on ebay? Im hoping to verify its authenticity to some degree at least. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:31:17 2010 From: Dave Munroe To: Gary , tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:54:47 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) " Some people are unnecessarily worried they're going to lose a leg picking up groceries". Gary: That pretty much sums it up....very eloquently too I might add. Dave _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:58:33 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:06:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) That's a fair point. The probability (or eventuality) of failure goes up dramatically as you increase the RPM range that the engine is operated at, and it may be that if you never exceed, say, 4000 RPM, and some given torque loading, that the life expectancy for the flywheel is essentially infinite. My point to Mauro was that today's engines are easily capable of operating at power levels and RPM ranges that significantly exceed the design limits for the original engine, and even with a quite insignificant chance of failure, you have to weigh that against the quite severe consequences. A $500 scattershield and $400 flywheel are cheap compared to the potential bodywork required to either the car or its occupants... This is a hypothetical question: Has anyone ever calculated what the theoretical destruction speed for the flywheel is, purely based on the yield strength of cast iron? It would be interesting to know what is the safety factor for a 'perfect' flywheel. Theo PS to Mauro: A scattershield such as the McLeod, Lakewood, or Quicktime pieces, entirely replaces the bellhousing. I've previously owned, but never installed, a McLeod and a Wedge scattershield. > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gary > Sent: April 15, 2010 12:30 PM > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) > > To all, > > I suggest we distinguish between drivetrain failures that occasionally > happen > on the race course where the engine/drivetrain is running consistently > between > 4000-7000 rpms for long durations and those failures that rarely happen > during > the occasional spirited drive on a windy road. Some people are > unnecessarily > worried they're going to lose a leg picking up groceries. > > Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 14:59:08 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:21:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Best Clutch Kit 289 (etc. revisions of the original I hope everyone can understand I realize an exploding flywheel is a serious issue. That said I still appreciate the subtle humor regarding the hose clamps (it made me chuckle). So, I'll add that should one change back to English style clamps at the expense of a needed flywheel replacement - keep your old (new style) clamps. They can make an excellent tourniquet when your foot gets severed! In the end a scattershield is like fire/flood insurance. Most people will never use it, but when you do there is no discounting how important it is. Just like where you live dictates the importance of insurance, so does how you drive precludes the need for a scattershield. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 15:01:57 2010 From: m_dangelo@verizon.net To: maliburevue@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:32:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:00:33 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:25:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) Mauro The only flywheel explosions I know of happened at a race track. The stock flywheel was designed for daily street use not race application. The scattershield is a bell housing replacement made of steel. There are shrapnel blankets, for lack of a better or correct term, that are used on dragsters; A/T wrap and blower tie down come to mind. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of m_dangelo@verizon.net Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:03 PM To: Theo.Smit@dynastream.com Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) Hi. This is all very interesting, but how common a problem is this in reality, statistically? I mean, how many cars are out there (Tiger/TVR/Cobra/Mustang/Fairlane/Galaxie/Falcon, etc.) that are still running their original flywheels? Are they all really in danger? If one were planning to drag race a car like these, of course it would seem to make sense to change out the flywheel, but for street cars, when was the last time anyone heard of a flywheel disintegrating? I honestly can say that I have never even heard of such an incident on a street. I think it would be interesting to understand how grave an issue this really is before spending money to buy a new flywheel. Regarding the scattershield, is this a replacement for the bell housing, or is it something like a bell housing helmet, covering it? How many of you out there have scattershields on your cars? How many of you have ever seen a scattershield? I never have, but my experience with American motors is relatively short (outside of Jeeps). Thanks. Mauro Apr 15, 2010 12:46:34 PM, Theo.Smit@dynastream.com wrote: I haven't seen a flywheel explode, but I've seen a couple of blown clutch pressure plates, a driveshaft pretzeled, and a brake disc failure. Seen pictures of damage done by a fan that shed blades. I don't recall what damage the pressure plate did to the car (besides leading them to DNF again and leaving a bunch of totally heat-checked shrapnel under the car), but the driveshaft failure was caused by the transmission somehow engaging two gears when the car was at about 90 or 100 MPH on the front straight at Race City. The driveshaft buckled, kicked the entire passenger floor up about four or five inches, and then locked up the rear end, which sent the car into the grass just beyond the end of the pit wall. Ten yards earlier and he would have hit the wall. The brake disc was machined beyond any reasonable thickness limit, and when it got hot and the brakes were applied, a piece let go and locked the disc to the caliper. The strut was nearly ripped right off the car (240Z). If rotating stuff is suddenly made to stop, or if it can shed pieces, it will do a lot of damage... Theo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2812 - Release Date: 04/15/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:01:09 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'DAVID GREEN'" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:31:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) Dave These are the numbers I have for that color. Code #58 Midnight Blue Ditzler # 12633 DuLux enamel 97365 Chrysler # 75242838 Berger code 404.1710 ICI 2983 Maybe one of them will help you Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of DAVID GREEN Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:49 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Hello from Tucson, Does anyone have the paint color formula for Midnight Blue #58 and any pictures of a car with this color so we can see what it looks like. Thanks Dave green 14 Alpines 2 Mk1 Tigers _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2812 - Release Date: 04/15/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:30:19 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Beamclub Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fw: Re: Flywheel explosoins (was Best Clutch Kit 289) IF your pockets are deep enough you fly first class when flying to your destination- I suggest the same for your Tiger. Given the HP and the possibility you might decide to see just how big your nads might be or your brain might not be- IF your pockets are deep enough, why ever set in coach when first class in this case is excellent insurance- especially if your flywheel has a made date letter of 60 something. Poor guys gamble, guys not classified as poor are nuts for ignoring the safety factor as I'm sure if things did go bad at high rpms and or speeds in a Tiger, the odds of not getting hurt are very low.I bet we have no members who do race or have extremely high HP engines have safety around the clutch and flywheel and if they don't- maybe a tape measure would be a great gift. IMO of course. TtT _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:31:09 2010 From: "denis mercier" To: "DAVID GREEN" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:41:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) Dave. Il just send you some pictures of my Midnight Blue # 58 MK1A. For the paint color formula ask to your local car paint shop. Ask sample from different suppliers ( Sherwin Williams, Dupont........) they can be slightly different. Denis Canada B382000926LRXFE ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAVID GREEN" To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:49 PM Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) > Hello from Tucson, > > > > Does anyone have the paint color formula for Midnight Blue #58 and any > pictures of a car with this color so we can see what it looks like. > > Thanks > > Dave green > > > > 14 Alpines 2 Mk1 Tigers > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/denismercier@telvic.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:31:13 2010 From: Larry Paulick To: CoolVT@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:43:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch-Driveshaft U-joints See the article on Tigers United. Larry CoolVT@aol.com wrote: > There has been lots of chatter on exploding flywheels, but almost nothing > on failed driveshaft u-joints. Some time back a lister was explaining the > dangers of the front u-joint letting go. If you look at that location you can > see that a loose, rattling driveshaft will have a very good chance of > tearing out the brake and fuel line. It's something I'd like to address this > summer. So, what have people used for solutions? > Mark > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:31:20 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Brad Huff'" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:45:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Paint color behind the grille Brad First you need to have all the trim pieces; the upper eye brow and the lower piece. I painted black from the centerline of the lower piece and to the metal roll edge of the upper to the radiator. I believe the black should have gone a little further under the upper eye brow to cover the paint edge. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Huff Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:46 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Paint color behind the grille Can anyone advise me the proper color of the front side of the radiator core support and the area behind the grille should be on a 65 Mk !A. The entire area was repainted red and I am now wishing to restore it to original. I believe it is probably supposed to be black and if so, how far forward does the black come before it returns to the body color? Thank you in advance.-Brad _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2812 - Release Date: 04/15/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 16:31:35 2010 From: m_dangelo@verizon.net To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:53:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Flywheel explosions (was Best Clutch Kit 289) Gary, Thanks for putting it so eloquently.B That is exactly what I was driving at in a roundabout way.B I really think there is a huge difference between a race car, or a car used to race, and a car that's driven on a street, even in a very spirited manner.B My logic is simply that race engines generally get consumed very quickly, while street engines can be reliable for many years.B In the same way, components of engines, i.e. cast iron flywheels, pistons, rings, rods bearings, etc., can usually remain reliable for a very long time in a street car.B Flywheels will normally be swapped out if grooved or corroded, but not because they were reduced to shrapnel.B Am I wrong here?B Just imagine the danger to life and limb of owners of all classic cars powered by small block Ford engines.B I would think that if this were truly a problem, I would be reading about it in newspapers and magazines (even Hagerty would probably put out warnings).B Right?B Mauro Apr 15, 2010 02:31:55 PM, maliburevue@yahoo.com wrote: To all, I suggest we distinguish between drivetrain failures that occasionally happen on the race course where the engine/drivetrain is running consistently between 4000-7000 rpms for long durations and those failures that rarely happen during the occasional spirited drive on a windy road. Some people are unnecessarily worried they're going to lose a leg picking up groceries. Gary _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 18:30:31 2010 From: David T Johnson To: Joel Martin Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Joel now I'm cinfused. Ron Fraser...can you help out. My Tiger B382002668 was built is Dec 1996.. it has the 18KC engine with Rev 9. I'm about to paint it in a few weeks. I asuumed from the earlier discussion it should be DE 1606. I'm covering was is a very dark blue. Since my car is near the end of MK IA, did Sunbeam use DE1606 oer perhaps DE 1601. My question is: Is DE 1601 the lig --- On Thu, 4/15/10, Joel Martin wrote: From: Joel Martin Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again To: "David T Johnson" Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 1:42 PM David I do not see where the BON indicates the actual number. I show DE1606 is Ford Dark Blue for 1969 - 1981. Old Ford Blue for 1963 (some) - 1965 was the DE1601 and Crop Ford Blue 1966-1968 as DE1621. Still not too sure if color is based on year of engine or year of car. Joel From: David T Johnson To: Tiger List Serve ; Joel Martin Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 10:04:11 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Check the BON again. Old Ford Blue (corporate Ford Blue) is DE 1606. --- On Wed, 4/14/10, Joel Martin wrote: From: Joel Martin Subject: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again To: "Tiger List Serve" Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 6:28 PM The links to the Ford Engine Colors was excellent as well as the Mustang Monthly article, thanks for that. http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/173_0308_paints_engines/index.html My motor seems to be a hybrid of sorts. 6 bolt - 1965 or 1966 block with the 3/8" rod bolts, 1964 intake, 1963 Autolite 4100 600 CFM carb. Appears to be 289 HiPo configuration, screw in studs and spring seats in the head. The transmission was a 1964 close ratio but has been changed to wide ratio 2,3,4 and counter with a new larger bearing retainer cover to fit the 8 bolt alumiumn bell housing. 4 holes will have to be drilled and tapped to accomodate the 1964 transmission case for the bell housing. My best guess at this point is the Old Ford Dark Blue - Duplicolor DE 1601 (According to BON) based on MK 1 from ~ B382000601 to end. My question is this: Do you paint based on the year of the car or the year of the motor? Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/djoh797014@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:02:01 2010 From: David T Johnson To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fulcrum pins With all the traffic about flywheels, broken u-loints, exploding ball joints I have never heard much more about my and John Logan's tech tip about his fulcrum pin fix. It should be required for everyone. Go to TEAE.org or their website teae@aol.com. and read all about it. and then DO IT!! If your cross member is off, do it before putting it back on. Time to lease my soapbox. Dave survivor of two fulcrum pin failures. and a 5 way bypass. The pins were the scariest. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:03:56 2010 From: Jeffrey Nichols To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it was brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap while backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road driving) , now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force of a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most life and limb threating vehicles on the road. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:58:47 2010 From: "rande" To: djoh797014@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 21:06:09 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] from the wiki paint chart 'Corporate Ford Blue 1966-1968 Orig Ford PN: EP-2075-C Duplicolor DE 1621 (Old Ford Blue) PPG DAR 13358' www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors Dave, This is the info on the top of the page. If you look at the bottom info, where they mention all colors by year, they've listed 1965 289 as black block and heads and WHITE rocker covers? My first '65 was black with GOLD rocker covers and air filter housing, and the 289HP (the 'K' motor) was black with CHROME rocker covers and air filter housing. Makes me wonder about the first part of the list. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 19:59:19 2010 From: Bob Josten To: "Tiger's Den" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:06:29 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] car lift Awhile ago someone asked the list for car lift advice. If someone has too much money and not enough space maybe this 'subterranean lift' would be the solution. http://www.vasari-lifts.com/ Bob _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 20:02:02 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:21:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business You forgot to mention rivets (and screws) that make for removable I.D.. Why you can have the fraud squad haul your Tiger off in the middle of the night straight into the jaws of a crusher!!! And that devastation can occur with the car standing still. Then there is Lucas..., but that would be a whole subject for Fright Night II. But for my real "Fear Factor" I drive a '73 Pinto. 2.3 turbo and a T-5 help me cheat death as I attempt to out run the flames. :-) Tom >A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, > First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it > was > brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap > while > backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road > driving) , > now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force > of > a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone > reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most > life and limb threating vehicles on the road. > > > Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 20:03:37 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Jeffrey Nichols , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 21:22:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business As a matter of fact, I am one of those people, and I do not fully trust my car yet because of all of this talk. I really love my Tiger, but I feel so much more comfortable (and safe) in my Porsche because I know it won't try to kill or maim me. If something were to happen in that car, it would more likely be caused by human error, not mechanical failure. I strongly suggest to you all to clearly distinguish between necessary racing modifications and normal street use. I'd wager that the majority of owners never race their cars to the point that serious mods are necessary anyway. The fear problem is compounded by all the Kool-Aid that's been flowing through the list. On 4/15/10 8:26 PM, "Jeffrey Nichols" wrote: > A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, > First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it was > brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap while > backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road driving) , > now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force of > a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone > reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most > life and limb threating vehicles on the road. > > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 20:04:30 2010 From: "Ron Young" To: "Jeffrey Nichols" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:26:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business So, Jeff, does this mean that you want to sell yours cheap?!?! Ron Dana Point, CA "Lurker" that has always wanted a Tiger since they were new. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Nichols" To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business >A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, > First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it > was > brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap > while > backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road > driving) , > now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force > of > a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone > reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most > life and limb threating vehicles on the road. > > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ron.young@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 20:32:33 2010 From: "Stu Brennan" To: "'Jeffrey Nichols'" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 21:35:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Be safe, Buy a Toyota. Stu -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nichols Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:26 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it was brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap while backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road driving) , now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force of a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most life and limb threating vehicles on the road. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/stubrennan@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 20:59:26 2010 From: michael king To: "MAURO D'ANGELO" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:09:47 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business On 16 April 2010 11:22, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > As a matter of fact, I am one of those people, and I do not fully trust my > car yet because of all of this talk. I really love my Tiger, but I feel so > much more comfortable (and safe) in my Porsche because I know it won't try > to kill or maim me. > Not sure what year porsche you have but they were know as the "widow makers" especially the early 930 (911 turbo) .. though as with all cars.. genrally accidents happen due to the drivers skill base/aspirations not matching the cars potential.... and i have driven more porsches than most... -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 21:58:08 2010 From: "Robin Young" To: "'Jeffrey Nichols'" , Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:04:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Newbies get a lot of good advice here.....I was a newbie once ten years ago and over the years have appreciated my scatter shield, added the Logan/Johnson fulcrum pin fix, Dales Ackerman fix, did the Crawley cross member strengthening, added the Paulick 3" conduit to the exhaust pass throughs, used Derrick Whites dual brake master cylinder, hardened the valve seats, solved the overheating problem with 300HP, got tips on investment painting form Tim Ronack, and how to locate Martha for interior work. Thanks guys.....I really enjoy spinning the tires but don't drive over 80 MPH just in case something was overlooked. RObin -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nichols Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:26 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it was brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap while backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road driving) , now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force of a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most life and limb threating vehicles on the road. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 22:33:46 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'David T Johnson'" , "'Joel Martin'" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:55:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Dave I wish I could help here. I don't have the information needed to confirm the correct shade of Blue. Tod Brown sent me a picture of the original blue engine paint on his car and he states that DE 1606 matches. I have also seen pictures that look like medium blue and some pictures look even lighter. The problem is I do not have any original B19KC blue in hand to compare. I made a paint stick with DE 1601, the lighter shade, and DE 1621, medium shade, but it is impossible to compare my paint stick to a picture; way too many variables. http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors This is the best site I have found that at least shows the 3 shades of blue together. I have to shine a light on my paint stick to come close to the shades represented on that page. I wish I had a better answer. This is a case where Tiger owners with B19KC engines painted blue needed to check the shade of blue on their engines. It is also possible that the 289 engines in the MK II are painted a different shade of blue. I simply can not make that determination. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David T Johnson Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:40 PM To: Joel Martin Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Joel now I'm cinfused. Ron Fraser...can you help out. My Tiger B382002668 was built is Dec 1996.. it has the 18KC engine with Rev 9. I'm about to paint it in a few weeks. I asuumed from the earlier discussion it should be DE 1606. I'm covering was is a very dark blue. Since my car is near the end of MK IA, did Sunbeam use DE1606 oer perhaps DE 1601. My question is: Is DE 1601 the lig --- On Thu, 4/15/10, Joel Martin wrote: _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 15 23:02:11 2010 From: Theo Smit To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 22:17:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Mauro, you shouldn't be leery of driving your car, so long as you know everything is up to date as far as maintenance is concerned. But a Tiger is a 60's car, and it was not designed to last forever. I wonder what anyone driving a pre-1970's Porsche (or even into the 70's, so that we can include the 930) thinks about while they go down the road. I think there are a couple of reasons that there's a constant flow of vivid what-if disaster scenarios being presented. Part of it is that many of us on the list have an engineering or other technical background, and worrying about failure is an important part of our profession. Part of it is that all of our cars are 45 years old or thereabouts, and they've thereby outlasted many of the people that created them, and several generations worth of technological advances in vehicle design and component engineering. It's pretty safe to say that no one at Rootes ever suspected that their little monster would still be a going concern today, and for sure they didn't design the chassis or suspension to take anywhere near the amount of pounding that most Tigers have received at this point. And part of it is that pretty much everything we've discussed, HAS happened to people in Tigers, and mostly on the road. Fan blades have come off and gone through the hood. Fulcrum pins have sheared, in parking lots, but also on public roads. Old tires have exploded while traveling on the highway. Poor replacement components (specifically fulcrum pins and ball joints) have made people's best attempts at preventive maintenance worse than useless. Through it all, Tiger owners and the people making Tiger maintenance parts have worked to keep the cars going and to weed out the bad and unsafe stuff from the good. The reason you can get all the horror stories at the drop of a hat, is because we're generally past that, most owners are aware of the critical items in Tiger construction, and are just spreading the word. Cheers, Theo MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > As a matter of fact, I am one of those people, and I do not fully trust my > car yet because of all of this talk. I really love my Tiger, but I feel so > much more comfortable (and safe) in my Porsche because I know it won't try > to kill or maim me. If something were to happen in that car, it would more > likely be caused by human error, not mechanical failure. I strongly suggest > to you all to clearly distinguish between necessary racing modifications and > normal street use. I'd wager that the majority of owners never race their > cars to the point that serious mods are necessary anyway. The fear problem > is compounded by all the Kool-Aid that's been flowing through the list. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 00:03:41 2010 From: Tom Parker To: rfraser@bluefrog.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 01:15:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again I'm looking at the picture of the engine when I pulled it out of the car. It's a Tiger 2, #105 (very early). The block is C5AE-6015E, so it was cast in '65 as a 289. The block was Ford Black. Hard to tell from the picture, but I cleaned it off before I tore it down. It was black. However, the heads, intake manifold, timing cover, and the Toploader were "Old Ford Blue." I got what I thought was the correct color from Year One, but it was the newer, bluer "Corporate" blue. Duplicolor had the correct blue, labeled "Old Ford Blue". It was a very close match to what was on the manifold and transmission, given that paint was 40 years old at the time. Hard to tell what color was used where. All I can speak to is the engine I have; I've owned the car since '76. What happened to it before that I can't say. Tom On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Ron Fraser wrote: > Dave > I wish I could help here. I don't have the information needed to > confirm the correct shade of Blue. > Tod Brown sent me a picture of the original blue engine paint on his car > and > he states that DE 1606 matches. I have also seen pictures that look like > medium blue and some pictures look even lighter. > > The problem is I do not have any original B19KC blue in hand to > compare. I made a paint stick with DE 1601, the lighter shade, and DE > 1621, > medium shade, but it is impossible to compare my paint stick to a picture; > way too many variables. > > http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors > This is the best site I have found that at least shows the 3 shades of blue > together. I have to shine a light on my paint stick to come close to the > shades represented on that page. > > I wish I had a better answer. This is a case where Tiger owners with B19KC > engines painted blue needed to check the shade of blue on their engines. > It is also possible that the 289 engines in the MK II are painted a > different shade of blue. I simply can not make that determination. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of David T Johnson > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:40 PM > To: Joel Martin > Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again > > > Joel now I'm cinfused. > Ron Fraser...can you help out. > > My Tiger B382002668 was built is Dec 1996.. it has the 18KC engine with Rev > 9. I'm about to paint it in a few weeks. I asuumed from the earlier > discussion it should be DE 1606. I'm covering was is a very dark blue. > Since my car is near the end of MK IA, did Sunbeam use DE1606 oer perhaps > DE > 1601. My question is: Is DE 1601 the lig > > --- On Thu, 4/15/10, Joel Martin wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 00:04:50 2010 From: spook01@comcast.net To: MAURO D'ANGELO Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 05:17:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business hmmmmmmmm well, i have raced the tigger on the track, auto crossed it, used it as a daily driver, and run it at the drags, then hauled ass down the freeway on 650 mile trips. no fan blade decapatations, no pogo stick action by the little 18" driveshaft, no ball joint grenades, no broken fulcrum pins, no bombs disguised as flywheels.......in fact, the darn thing just goes like hell.B since 1974 when i got it.B through various permutations of small blocks. boy, i am gonna stop driving it and turn it into a salad bar; it is just toooooooooo dangerous!! sheesh. Energy Management is the hallmark of a professional pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "MAURO D'ANGELO" To: "Jeffrey Nichols" , tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:22:31 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business As a matter of fact, I am one of those people, and I do not fully trust my car yet because of all of this talk. B I really love my Tiger, but I feel so much more comfortable (and safe) in my Porsche because I know it won't try to kill or maim me. B If something were to happen in that car, it would more likely be caused by human error, not mechanical failure. B I strongly suggest to you all to clearly distinguish between necessary racing modifications and normal street use. B I'd wager that the majority of owners never race their cars to the point that serious mods are necessary anyway. B The fear problem is compounded by all the Kool-Aid that's been flowing through the list. On 4/15/10 8:26 PM, "Jeffrey Nichols" wrote: > A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, > First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it was > brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap while > backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road driving) , > now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the B force of > a small bomb cutting off limbs or B converting you to a gelding. B Anyone > reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most > life and limb threating vehicles on the road. > B > B B B B B B B B B > B B B B B B Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/spook01@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 02:17:18 2010 From: michael king To: Joseph Rebelo Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:23:58 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Anybody know more about the white RHD Tiger on ebay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290424115688&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en On 16 April 2010 05:02, Joseph Rebelo wrote: > Im hoping to verify its authenticity to some degree at least. > Joe, as this auction ended early.. and on the day you asked about its authenticity.. im guessing you may now own it? It looked a reasonably honest car.. there are people around the area that may know it.. you might want to check the registry for it too... question is.. where do you live? -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 04:45:36 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: michael king Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:12:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Right. As I said, if something were to happen in one of my 911s, it would be because of human error, not mechanical failure. My point was simply that all the talk of the extreme lack of confidence in the Tiger's chassis and drivetrain components is very scary and probably not at all helpful in attracting or maintaining interest in the car. On the contrary. Also, for those cars that stay off the track, all or most of that talk is irrelevant and therefore highly unproductive. Neither of my 911s is a 930 or Turbo. The 930 was called the widow maker. Also, the 930 (Turbo) was known as the car that killed the most sports stars. You may also know that the original 930 is the car that caused the coining of the term, 3turbo lag2, which was the initial quality/behavior that caused many drivers to be caught by surprise when the power all finally kicked in, to freak out, overcompensate, lose control of their cars and end up off the street. Mauro On 4/15/10 10:09 PM, "michael king" wrote: > > > On 16 April 2010 11:22, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: >> As a matter of fact, I am one of those people, and I do not fully trust my >> car yet because of all of this talk. I really love my Tiger, but I feel so >> much more comfortable (and safe) in my Porsche because I know it won't try >> to kill or maim me. > Not sure what year porsche you have but they were know as the "widow makers" > especially the early 930 (911 turbo) .. though as with all cars.. genrally > accidents happen due to the drivers skill base/aspirations not matching the > cars potential.... and i have driven more porsches than most... > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 05:41:33 2010 From: arado7@sbcglobal.net To: tigers@autox.team.net, Jeffrey Nichols Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 04:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business If the Tiger had no allusion of danger it would not be as much fun. gary B9472283 --- On Fri, 4/16/10, Jeffrey Nichols wrote: From: Jeffrey Nichols Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 12:26 AM A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it was brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap while backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road driving) , now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force of a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most life and limb threating vehicles on the road. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/arado7@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 06:20:47 2010 From: "Scott Hutchinson" To: , , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:39:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business I think the biggest risk you run in the Tiger is that of someone else hitting you. Goes for just about any car of the tigers size made in the sixties. In terms of safety equipment not much has changed since the sixties in airplanes, and for the most part what has been mandated has been required to be installed in existing equipment, but the automobile has undergone a revolution. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations NetJets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 *** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 09:21:31 2010 From: m_dangelo@verizon.net To: arado7@sbcglobal.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:21:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Gary, Believe me, I am all about adrenaline rushes and taking lots of calculated risks. I love to seek the edge of physics, to get to it without crossing the limit. That's exactly what I thrive on the most. But that adventurism, in this case, requires my complete faith in the integrity of the machine I am driving. Without that, it is quite impossible to seek the edge of physics without pulling back, even if it's just a bit, for fear that the car will betray me and cause grave harm to me and/or itself. The issue with the way many of you are portraying the Tiger, in my own humble opinion, is that there is a [false] sense that the car is prone to random, catastrophic failures, which can easily injure or kill you. The operative word here is "random". How can one calculate risks when there is a variable and random element in that calculation? It's not possible and only cause insecurity. I mean, come on. If you rev the engine at 6500 RPM, your flywheel may explode and buzz saw your feet off! Oh no!!! If you back up in a parking lot, or drive down the street, your fulcrum pin will fail, causing you to careen into a telephone pole without warning. Smash!!! Your U-joint may fail in your drive shaft, causing you to either be pole vaulted onto your head or, even better, cause you to lose your brakes and catch fire at the same time. Crash Boom!!! Your ball joints may explode; even if you thought you were doing preventive maintenance, you have pulled the pin on a hand grenade in your front suspension. Screech Kaboom!!! It's all really quite absurd. I'm truly surprised that all you engineers do not understand how damaging this is to the reputation of this car. Can you imagine what would happen to public confidence in helicopters if engineers were to explain how many of the myriad simultaneously moving components could possibly fail? What's more surprising is that no one is saying that these problems are not only tied to our cool Tigers, but to all or most classic cars of the era, to include Cobras and other highly sought muscle cars. But go to a Mustang or Cobra forum and you won't find these dire warnings of impending doom. Let's try to at least put strong caveats above our warnings. Right? Mauro Apr 16, 2010 06:42:42 AM, arado7@sbcglobal.net wrote: If the Tiger had no allusion of danger it would not be as much fun. gary B9472283 --- On Fri, 4/16/10, Jeffrey Nichols wrote: From: Jeffrey Nichols Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 12:26 AM A newbie to this list may wonder what type of nut drives a Sunbeam Tiger, First we had discussion on "exploding ball joints" a while back , then it was brought up that these cars have suspension fulcrum points ready to snap while backing out of your driveway (if you are lucky and not on the road driving) , now we have flywheels and clutch assemblies that "explode" with the force of a small bomb cutting off limbs or converting you to a gelding. Anyone reading this list has to conclude that the Tiger has to be one of the most life and limb threating vehicles on the road. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/arado7@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/m_dangelo@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 09:21:52 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear? Mike _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 10:31:58 2010 From: spmdr@juno.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:37:18 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Exploding Flywheels FYI Several years ago, one of the Cobras at the Willow open track Had the flywheel explode! He said he couldn't have been doing more than 5000 RPM! The good news is he had an iron Ford bellhousing and it contained the mess! The point is, it can happen ANY time! The NEWest original Tiger flywheel is 42 years old! Meal fatigue is cumulative! NEW steel flywheels are out there for a little over $100! www.themustangdepot.com For the cost of surfacing and mag testing, it's a "No Brainer"! DW ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Soaring 3000% Sign up for Free to find out what the next 3000% Stock Winner Is! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc88469a84ce4cc72m07vuc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 10:32:25 2010 From: Frank Simer To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:39:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks Fire yikes... I got rid of that crossover tube straight away... and have a firewall built in my trunk...when I stripped my tiger down and saw that pipe behind that 25 pound bumper I freaked.... funny it did not bother me when driving a tiger in 76-78.... it did now that I am no longer in my bullet-proof 20's... other than being eaten as some large animal's meal - fire is my next feared item of 'consumption" Frank On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 9:29 AM, mike schreiner wrote: > What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, > my fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening > from the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever > heaqrd of a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear? Mike > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/simer.frank@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 10:32:34 2010 From: "Lynn Wall" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:41:49 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fulcrum pins Tiger Gas Tanks, exploding flywheel, Oh my hell....... people get a grip!!!!! I tell you what. I am willing to take all the tigers off your hands right now. However we will need to make a slight price adjustment considering all the extreme risk I am assuming. It will be a win win for of us since I have an obvious death wish and you folks will no longer stay awake at night trying to figure out at which RPM a flywheel will explode. This way you can all get back to safe activities like walking around the back side of a horse, standing on the top level of a ladder and fly fishing with your zipper down... Sorry to vent. Lynn _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 10:35:14 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'mike schreiner'" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:45:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks Mike There have been several rear end collisions with no fire. For the most part if you see it coming your right foot can move you out of the way. You could fabricate a metal shield between the fuel tanks and the cockpit. It is possible Dale's Restoration Shop already has them for the race cars he works on. Another item to consider might be an inertia switch in the fuel pump harness to shut it off. I pulled one out of a Ford Focus and it even has a rubber weather shield over the button. I soft wired this switch into my Tiger and it worked fine. I just need to find a connector so I can hard wire it into the harness. If you grab an inertia switch from a scrap yard be sure to take the connector and length of wire too. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mike schreiner Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 10:30 AM To: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear? Mike _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2812 - Release Date: 04/16/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 10:36:16 2010 From: To: Tigers@autox.team.net, mike schreiner Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:47:41 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks OMG PEOPLE....................just sell your Tigers and walk. Then again, you might get hit by a meteor or bus. Give it a rest. Duke B382002037 (ready to kill me at any moment and I love it) ---- mike schreiner wrote: > What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear? Mike > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 10:36:23 2010 From: "Lynn Wall" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:48:33 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fulcrum pins Tiger Gas Tanks, exploding flywheel, Oh my hell....... people get a grip!!!!! I tell you what. I am willing to take all the tigers off your hands right now. However we will need to make a slight price adjustment considering all the extreme risk I am assuming. It will be a win win for of us since I have an obvious death wish and you folks will no longer stay awake at night trying to figure out at which RPM a flywheel will explode. This way you can all get back to safe activities like walking around the back side of a horse, standing on the top level of a ladder and fly fishing with your zipper down... Sorry to vent. Lynn _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 11:51:59 2010 From: spook01@comcast.net To: spmdr@juno.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:43:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Exploding Flywheels several years ago, a guy was struck by lightening as he sat in his basement. i guess you guys don't fly much.B if you knew what a dangerous environment you were in when in flight in a jet.... stuff happens.B you can't round off all the corners.B take what precautions seem sane, forget the rest...B Energy Management is the hallmark of a professional pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: spmdr@juno.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 10:37:18 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [Tigers] Exploding Flywheels FYI Several years ago, one of the Cobras at the Willow open track Had the flywheel explode! He said he couldn't have been doing more than 5000 RPM! The good news is he had an iron Ford bellhousing and it contained the mess! The point is, it can happen ANY time! The NEWest original Tiger flywheel is 42 years old! Meal fatigue is cumulative! NEW steel flywheels are out there for a little over $100! www.themustangdepot.com For the cost of surfacing and mag testing, it's a "No Brainer"! DW ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Soaring 3000% Sign up for Free to find out what the next 3000% Stock Winner Is! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc88469a84ce4cc72m07vuc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/spook01@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 11:53:41 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:59:28 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Exploding and fiery list content In retrospect (hopefully we can let this die down) I think that the message should be: Have fun with your Tiger  its why you bought it. In stock form, its no more intrinsically dangerous than any other high powered 60s British car that was engineered on a tight budget. If there are things about it that make you uneasy from a safety or reliability point of view, then get those things checked out by someone whose judgment you value. If stuff needs repair, then use the best parts and procedures you can afford, consistent with how you plan to use your car. Theo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 11:54:15 2010 From: Tom Hall To: m_dangelo@verizon.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:00:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business At 07:21 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote: >... I'm truly surprised that all you engineers do not understand how >damaging this is to the reputation of this car. > >... What's more surprising is that no one is saying that these >problems are not only tied to our cool Tigers, but to all or most >classic cars of the era, to include Cobras and other highly sought >muscle cars. But go to a Mustang or Cobra forum and you won't find >these dire warnings of impending doom. Let's try to at least put >strong caveats above our warnings. Right? > >Mauro Let me get this straight, You think it's advisable, to advance the reputation of the marque, that those of us with historic understanding of certain design limitations and or possible shortcomings, should remain silent on these subjects. I think that Toyota is currently proving that this direction is not the best alternative. Most of us "engineers" have recognized and discussed these risk situations and are advising that mitigating them requires some action on the part of owners that for the most part, request the help and advice from the list. Relative "Risk" is a very personal interpretation. If you ask for advise and I scare you with stories of component failure, and you buy my Chassis Reinforcement Kit to strengthen your frame, or you direct your restoration to replace components that have been historically subject to cyclic fatigue failures, have I helped you or hurt you? Do you smoke? Can you believe that anyone, given the state of knowledge of that risk, would ever even consider smoking? How do they even manage to sell cigarettes? As a Professional Engineer, I consider that advising fellow Tiger owners of risk factors that I have historical, direct or even peripheral and specific knowledge of, to be my social responsibility. Same goes for "authenticity". If my TAC activities keep you from buying a car that was not manufactured as a Tiger by Rootes, I'm also reducing your risk factor, even if it is simply financial. You have to judge your own level of acceptable risk. Asking other to remain silent or severely muted, is not really helpful in my opinion. Anyone driving a 40 year old car has a much different perspective on driving safety than the general public. Most of the contributors on this list are simply trying to share their enjoyment and help others enjoy their Tigers to the fullest while acknowledging certain common problems. Tom Hall ModTiger Engineering LLC www.tigerengineering.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 12:34:06 2010 From: Joel Martin To: rfraser@bluefrog.com, David T Johnson Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Dave/Ron I am leaning towards following the advice found in the Ford Engine colors guide link supplied. With a B19KC motor designation for a 1966 MK 1A, this guide indicates for 1966 - 1968 Corporate Ford Blue or Duplicolor DE 1621 (Old Ford Blue). BON just indicates 'Old Ford Dark Blue'. The guide use verbage Old Ford Blue DE1601 for 63-65, Corporate Ford Blue DE 1621 (Old Ford Blue) for 1966-1968 and Ford Blue DE 1606 (Ford Dark Blue) for 1969-1981. None of the DE descriptions uses "all" the verbage from BON of 'Old Ford Dark Blue'. Not the low road (lighter DE1601) or the high/darker road DE1606 but straight down the middle - DE1621 based on the year 1966 from the Ford Engine Colors guide and BON (Guess) that B382000601 to end is Old Ford Dark Blue - what ever that is based on Duplicolor descriptions. Joel ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Fraser To: David T Johnson ; Joel Martin Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 11:55:12 PM Subject: RE: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Dave I wish I could help here. I don't have the information needed to confirm the correct shade of Blue. Tod Brown sent me a picture of the original blue engine paint on his car and he states that DE 1606 matches. I have also seen pictures that look like medium blue and some pictures look even lighter. The problem is I do not have any original B19KC blue in hand to compare. I made a paint stick with DE 1601, the lighter shade, and DE 1621, medium shade, but it is impossible to compare my paint stick to a picture; way too many variables. http://www.fordification.com/bumpwiki/index.php?title=Ford_Engine_Colors This is the best site I have found that at least shows the 3 shades of blue together. I have to shine a light on my paint stick to come close to the shades represented on that page. I wish I had a better answer. This is a case where Tiger owners with B19KC engines painted blue needed to check the shade of blue on their engines. It is also possible that the 289 engines in the MK II are painted a different shade of blue. I simply can not make that determination. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David T Johnson Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:40 PM To: Joel Martin Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Joel now I'm cinfused. Ron Fraser...can you help out. My Tiger B382002668 was built is Dec 1996.. it has the 18KC engine with Rev 9. I'm about to paint it in a few weeks. I asuumed from the earlier discussion it should be DE 1606. I'm covering was is a very dark blue. Since my car is near the end of MK IA, did Sunbeam use DE1606 oer perhaps DE 1601. My question is: Is DE 1601 the lig --- On Thu, 4/15/10, Joel Martin wrote: _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 12:40:40 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Tigers@autox.team.net, mike schreiner , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks Wait Duke- of all the stuff mentioned, Mike brought up the most dangerous. Under the right conditions one gallon of gasoline( back when it was truely gasoline that is) is equal to more than a stick of dynamite. I was told in a safety meeting at work by the instructor that 1 gallon was equal to 8 sticks BUT Im having a hard time believing that- I have seen gasoline explode tho and the earth shook as did I afterwards- I was amazed. I agree, many good points have been covered and depending on the car, each procedure should be addressd in the order of NEVER needing a scatershield to the fulcrum pins which should be addressed immeadiately if not alredy changed out. By the way LIST. My Tiger had pin failure but Im not certain he (PO) used new and improved or used pins to replace them with. Is there any way I can tell by a visual inspection- this has been on my mind way before someone tried to get our latest newbie to sell his Tiger CHEAP. LOL and teasing of course. Cheers, TtT --- On Fri, 4/16/10, wsamouce@kc.rr.com wrote: From: wsamouce@kc.rr.com Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks To: Tigers@autox.team.net, "mike schreiner" Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 10:47 AM OMG PEOPLE....................just sell your Tigers and walk. Then again, you might get hit by a meteor or bus. Give it a rest. Duke B382002037 (ready to kill me at any moment and I love it) ---- mike schreiner wrote: > What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear? Mike > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/wsamouce@kc.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 12:40:55 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Joel Martin'" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:50:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Joel It your Tiger. We know that the original 260 engine was painted Blue so paint it the shade of Ford Blue you like best. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: Joel Martin [mailto:jmartiniii@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 1:26 PM To: rfraser@bluefrog.com; David T Johnson Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Paint Colors - again Dave/Ron I am leaning towards following the advice found in the Ford Engine colors guide link supplied. With a B19KC motor designation for a 1966 MK 1A, this guide indicates for 1966 - 1968 Corporate Ford Blue or Duplicolor DE 1621 (Old Ford Blue). BON just indicates 'Old Ford Dark Blue'. The guide use verbage Old Ford Blue DE1601 for 63-65, Corporate Ford Blue DE 1621 (Old Ford Blue) for 1966-1968 and Ford Blue DE 1606 (Ford Dark Blue) for 1969-1981. None of the DE descriptions uses "all" the verbage from BON of 'Old Ford Dark Blue'. Not the low road (lighter DE1601) or the high/darker road DE1606 but straight down the middle - DE1621 based on the year 1966 from the Ford Engine Colors guide and BON (Guess) that B382000601 to end is Old Ford Dark Blue - what ever that is based on Duplicolor descriptions. Joel _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 13:30:33 2010 From: "Lynn Wall" To: "'Smit, Theo'" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:23:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Exploding and fiery list content I agree. As things need repair fix it with the best stuff you can and get the best advice in doing so. But some of the hysterics don't add up to reality. If we knew the actual risk of things we do every day we would sit in our houses in the fetal position. Everybody knows or has heard about something happening to somebody that is really scary. Personally I think you have more risk of personal harm telling your wife your opinion of her new hair style then driving a Tiger (even aggressively). Lynn (watching his words when his wife asks "does this dress make me look fat?" yet still nailing the throttle of his tiger on every on ramp) -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Smit, Theo Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:59 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Exploding and fiery list content In retrospect (hopefully we can let this die down) I think that the message should be: Have fun with your Tiger  its why you bought it. In stock form, its no more intrinsically dangerous than any other high powered 60s British car that was engineered on a tight budget. If there are things about it that make you uneasy from a safety or reliability point of view, then get those things checked out by someone whose judgment you value. If stuff needs repair, then use the best parts and procedures you can afford, consistent with how you plan to use your car. Theo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/cars@wt-inc.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 13:30:44 2010 From: Gary To: MAURO D'ANGELO Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Once again, more car than the average driver can handle. It only takes money to buy one, not driving skills. --- On Fri, 4/16/10, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: From: MAURO D'ANGELO Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business To: "michael king" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 3:12 AM Right. As I said, if something were to happen in one of my 911s, it would be because of human error, not mechanical failure. My point was simply that all the talk of the extreme lack of confidence in the Tiger's chassis and drivetrain components is very scary and probably not at all helpful in attracting or maintaining interest in the car. On the contrary. Also, for those cars that stay off the track, all or most of that talk is irrelevant and therefore highly unproductive. Neither of my 911s is a 930 or Turbo. The 930 was called the widow maker. Also, the 930 (Turbo) was known as the car that killed the most sports stars. You may also know that the original 930 is the car that caused the coining of the term, 3turbo lag2, which was the initial quality/behavior that caused many drivers to be caught by surprise when the power all finally kicked in, to freak out, overcompensate, lose control of their cars and end up off the street. Mauro On 4/15/10 10:09 PM, "michael king" wrote: > > > On 16 April 2010 11:22, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: >> As a matter of fact, I am one of those people, and I do not fully trust my >> car yet because of all of this talk. I really love my Tiger, but I feel so >> much more comfortable (and safe) in my Porsche because I know it won't try >> to kill or maim me. > Not sure what year porsche you have but they were know as the "widow makers" > especially the early 930 (911 turbo) .. though as with all cars.. genrally > accidents happen due to the drivers skill base/aspirations not matching the > cars potential.... and i have driven more porsches than most... > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/maliburevue@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 14:06:54 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tom Hall Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:51:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Tigers, Be very, very, thankful to those with the technical expertise and experience, like Tom Hall, Dan Walters, Theo Smit, and many, many others for sharing their knowledge and experience with us. OR Wish you had after you got in trouble. Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Tom Hall wrote: > At 07:21 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote: >> ... I'm truly surprised that all you engineers do not understand how >> damaging this is to the reputation of this car. >> >> ... What's more surprising is that no one is saying that these >> problems are not only tied to our cool Tigers, but to all or most >> classic cars of the era, to include Cobras and other highly sought >> muscle cars. But go to a Mustang or Cobra forum and you won't find >> these dire warnings of impending doom. Let's try to at least put >> strong caveats above our warnings. Right? >> >> Mauro > > Let me get this straight, You think it's advisable, to advance the > reputation of the marque, that those of us with historic understanding > of certain design limitations and or possible shortcomings, should > remain silent on these subjects. I think that Toyota is currently > proving that this direction is not the best alternative. Most of us > "engineers" have recognized and discussed these risk situations and > are advising that mitigating them requires some action on the part of > owners that for the most part, request the help and advice from the list. > > Relative "Risk" is a very personal interpretation. If you ask for > advise and I scare you with stories of component failure, and you buy > my Chassis Reinforcement Kit to strengthen your frame, or you direct > your restoration to replace components that have been historically > subject to cyclic fatigue failures, have I helped you or hurt you? > > Do you smoke? Can you believe that anyone, given the state of > knowledge of that risk, would ever even consider smoking? How do they > even manage to sell cigarettes? > > As a Professional Engineer, I consider that advising fellow Tiger > owners of risk factors that I have historical, direct or even > peripheral and specific knowledge of, to be my social responsibility. > Same goes for "authenticity". If my TAC activities keep you from > buying a car that was not manufactured as a Tiger by Rootes, I'm also > reducing your risk factor, even if it is simply financial. You have > to judge your own level of acceptable risk. Asking other to remain > silent or severely muted, is not really helpful in my opinion. Anyone > driving a 40 year old car has a much different perspective on driving > safety than the general public. Most of the contributors on this list > are simply trying to share their enjoyment and help others enjoy their > Tigers to the fullest while acknowledging certain common problems. > > > Tom Hall > ModTiger Engineering LLC > www.tigerengineering.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 14:49:31 2010 From: Jeffrey Nichols To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! "What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear?" Don't drive a 1960's Mustang if fire worries you. The floor of a Mustang trunk is the top of the gas tank with only the rear seat back as a firewall. Back in the day the worker inserted the gas tank through the trunk opening. It was done that way to make it easier to install the gas tank while the car moved down the assembly line. Face it, these old cars are more dangerous to drive than todays cars. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 14:50:17 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:05:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Exploding and fiery list content Careful there was a house out in the country here that recently blew up due to a propane leak so your not safe at home either. Watching a guy drive by you on an interstate with both hands on the pizza he is stuffing into his mouth or the guy reading the newspaper on the way to work is way more scarier. I say drive your Tiger and enjoy the experience. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Wall Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:24 PM To: 'Smit, Theo'; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Exploding and fiery list content I agree. As things need repair fix it with the best stuff you can and get the best advice in doing so. But some of the hysterics don't add up to reality. If we knew the actual risk of things we do every day we would sit in our houses in the fetal position. Everybody knows or has heard about something happening to somebody that is really scary. Personally I think you have more risk of personal harm telling your wife your opinion of her new hair style then driving a Tiger (even aggressively). Lynn (watching his words when his wife asks "does this dress make me look fat?" yet still nailing the throttle of his tiger on every on ramp) -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Smit, Theo Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:59 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Exploding and fiery list content In retrospect (hopefully we can let this die down) I think that the message should be: Have fun with your Tiger  its why you bought it. In stock form, its no more intrinsically dangerous than any other high powered 60s British car that was engineered on a tight budget. If there are things about it that make you uneasy from a safety or reliability point of view, then get those things checked out by someone whose judgment you value. If stuff needs repair, then use the best parts and procedures you can afford, consistent with how you plan to use your car. Theo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/cars@wt-inc.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2812 - Release Date: 04/16/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 15:21:40 2010 From: spmdr@juno.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:14:38 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] no good deed... ...goes unpunished! DW ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc8c578b16334e038m07vuc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 15:23:03 2010 From: "Pointers" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:20:12 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you guys to come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer! Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil for changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high revs), thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, sure enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best I can describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock either. Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), quite audible. Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got varied info. Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10 miles), but thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None whatsoever. After about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the exact same noise was present again. Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and tackle the issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets to share the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil additive...that sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done soon). Engine = 302 with stock internals. Gary Pointer St. Albert, Alberta _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 15:23:41 2010 From: "Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:30:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business It's all about perspective. I used to hold an AMA National Number and raced 250GP and Superbikes in the early '80's. To me my stroker-engined Tigers are relatively safe! Bugz _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 15:24:47 2010 From: spmdr@juno.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:39:10 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Flywheels Let's take a walk in MY shoes. I see a guy wanting to save some money with his stroker kit. ...and he wants to use his Original flywheel. What do I tell him... NOT a thing? ...I'll JUST keep MY FEET out of his car..thank you very much! ...but it's hard to see the (old) flywheel from the drivers seat. My point WAS they are NOT that expensive! ...for now... And, yes, lighting season is winding down... :-( But, the BIG ONE is coming! ...I'm getting the popcorn and soda ready! :-) DW ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc8cb2fd7d594e211m07vuc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 15:25:30 2010 From: spmdr@juno.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:42:16 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] The hardest thing... The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see. Ayn Rand DW ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc8cbe55af974e23fm07vuc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 15:59:08 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Jeffrey Nichols Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:55:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! Jeff, I can get you a great deal on a slightly used Toyota. If you wait long enough, they'll pay you to get them off their lot. ;-) Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > "What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my > fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from > the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of > a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear?" > > Don't drive a 1960's Mustang if fire worries you. The floor of a Mustang > trunk is the top of the gas tank with only the rear seat back as a > firewall. Back in the day the worker inserted the gas tank through the trunk > opening. It was done that way to make it easier to install the gas tank > while the car moved down the assembly line. Face it, these old cars are more > dangerous to drive than todays cars. > > > Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:00:22 2010 From: "=?utf-8?B?c3Bvb2swMUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA==?=" To: "=?utf-8?B?SmVmZnJleSBOaWNob2xz?=" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Fire_in_the_hole=2C_=2E=2E=2Ecar!?= Run! Run for your lives! Leave the keys.... Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Jeffrey Nichols" Date: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 16:02 Subject: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! To: "What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear?" Don't drive a 1960's Mustang if fire worries you. The floor of a Mustang trunk is the top of the gas tank with only the rear seat back as a firewall. Back in the day the worker inserted the gas tank through the trunk opening. It was done that way to make it easier to install the gas tank while the car moved down the assembly line. Face it, these old cars are more dangerous to drive than todays cars. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/spook01@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:34:31 2010 From: "Paul R. Breuhan" To: Jeff Nichols , Tigers Den Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:27:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! In high school, a friend's VW Bug had its back seat catch on fire while we were driving to school one morning. Also personal experience tells me a burst remote oil filter line and header wrap are not a good thing on a Tiger. Paul > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:02:49 -0700 > From: jxnichols@sbcglobal.net > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! > > "What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my > fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from > the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of > a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear?" > > Don't drive a 1960's Mustang if fire worries you. The floor of a Mustang > trunk is the top of the gas tank with only the rear seat back as a > firewall. Back in the day the worker inserted the gas tank through the trunk > opening. It was done that way to make it easier to install the gas tank > while the car moved down the assembly line. Face it, these old cars are more > dangerous to drive than todays cars. > > > Jeff _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:34:59 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: Pointers , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:29:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT A rocker stud might have come out of adjustment (i.e. loose) or pulled from the head, and depending on some factors, the rocker is hitting the baffle in the valve cover? Do you have the aluminum LAT valve covers or the chromed steel ones? Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Pointers > Sent: April 16, 2010 2:20 PM > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT > > Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and > benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you > guys to > come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:35:08 2010 From: "John Dillman" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business I think that Laifman guy has some good points from time to time, too ;) John Dillman Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business To: Tom Hall Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Message-ID: <4BC8B1CC.3050407@socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Tigers, Be very, very, thankful to those with the technical expertise and experience, like Tom Hall, Dan Walters, Theo Smit, and many, many others for sharing their knowledge and experience with us. OR Wish you had after you got in trouble. Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:35:27 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: "Rense, Mark \(GE Indust, ConsInd\)" , Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Agent 99... But Max if you drive that Tiger in every show the flywheel could explode or the fulcrum pins could break. The gas tank might explode or even the u joint could break. You'll be alone and in great danger every moment. Max.... "and loving it" _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:36:09 2010 From: gabbardalex@att.net To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:52:50 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] drim to disc conversion Any recommendations/advice concerning converting rear drums to discs? Anybody done it? If so, what parts are needed? Also, any advice on converting the solid front disc brakes to vented rotors? Anybody done it? _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 16:36:19 2010 From: TIGEROOTES@aol.com To: mikeflbmer@yahoo.com, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:02:42 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Tanks Mike, I have five photos taken in rapid sequence of a Tiger on a California racetrack in about 1969 on fire, apparently do to a burst fuel tank. I also made an animated .gif from those photos. Not a pretty sight. The car is currently owned by Bob Ground, who will be restoring it. If there's interest from anyone here in seeing these photos, drop me a note off-list and I'll zap them to all at the same time. Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club Seattle _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:01:27 2010 From: "Mike Hokanson" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:10:48 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Flywheel Explosions/Fire/Havoc Seems were getting to the paranoid stage. Toyotas keep going... and going... and going even when you don't want them to. Worst case scenario is the high-maintenance inattentive soccer-mom wrecklessly running through every intersection in the country in her SUV with a cell phone planted in her ear. Seems to be the most dangerous situation there is. Doesn't matter what you're driving - the Sunbeam, Mustang, F150, etc. - she's still gonna hammer ya and it's gonna hurt. If we're gonna be uneasy about cruising in the Sunbeam, just think about all the poor souls who invested in the Corvair who rolled them over. Best thing to do is install a set of 6' patio doors in your dining room and roll the Tiger into the house. Safest place for it and you won't worry about the issues. Don't need to wash it anymore and it'll always be pristine as it sits under the big screen on the wall. You can sleep well knowing your sports car won't hurt you. Other option is to enjoy the car, drive the hell out of it and quit being a wuss about what may never happen. Bottom line - driving a car such as a Tiger is a risk that you should enjoy. If it all goes wrong, at least you had a big smile on your face. Mike Hokanson _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:02:00 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Tom Hall Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:23:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Tom, First of all, I would like for you to know that I was not singling you out at all. I also was not saying that those with experience should not let people know where the car's shortcomings are. I used to be the fleet manager of an airline (years ago), so I happen to be highly attuned to the notion of safety and preventive maintenance. What I am saying is quite simple: I do not think it is at all helpful to scare people with stories of getting their feet buzz sawed off by their flywheels -- unless you specify that you are talking about cars that are being raced. My point -- and I really do not think you can argue with me on it -- is that for the most part, cars being driven on the street are probably not candidates for self destruction. Thank you. Mauro On 4/16/10 1:00 PM, "Tom Hall" wrote: > At 07:21 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote: >> ... I'm truly surprised that all you engineers do not understand how >> damaging this is to the reputation of this car. >> >> ... What's more surprising is that no one is saying that these >> problems are not only tied to our cool Tigers, but to all or most >> classic cars of the era, to include Cobras and other highly sought >> muscle cars. But go to a Mustang or Cobra forum and you won't find >> these dire warnings of impending doom. Let's try to at least put >> strong caveats above our warnings. Right? >> >> Mauro > > Let me get this straight, You think it's advisable, to advance the > reputation of the marque, that those of us with historic > understanding of certain design limitations and or possible > shortcomings, should remain silent on these subjects. I think that > Toyota is currently proving that this direction is not the best > alternative. Most of us "engineers" have recognized and discussed > these risk situations and are advising that mitigating them requires > some action on the part of owners that for the most part, request the > help and advice from the list. > > Relative "Risk" is a very personal interpretation. If you ask for > advise and I scare you with stories of component failure, and you buy > my Chassis Reinforcement Kit to strengthen your frame, or you direct > your restoration to replace components that have been historically > subject to cyclic fatigue failures, have I helped you or hurt you? > > Do you smoke? Can you believe that anyone, given the state of > knowledge of that risk, would ever even consider smoking? How do > they even manage to sell cigarettes? > > As a Professional Engineer, I consider that advising fellow Tiger > owners of risk factors that I have historical, direct or even > peripheral and specific knowledge of, to be my social > responsibility. Same goes for "authenticity". If my TAC activities > keep you from buying a car that was not manufactured as a Tiger by > Rootes, I'm also reducing your risk factor, even if it is simply > financial. You have to judge your own level of acceptable > risk. Asking other to remain silent or severely muted, is not really > helpful in my opinion. Anyone driving a 40 year old car has a much > different perspective on driving safety than the general > public. Most of the contributors on this list are simply trying to > share their enjoyment and help others enjoy their Tigers to the > fullest while acknowledging certain common problems. > > > Tom Hall > ModTiger Engineering LLC > www.tigerengineering.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:03:00 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Tom Hall Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:36:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business ...at least any more than other classic cars. (further to my previous email) On 4/16/10 6:23 PM, "MAURO D'ANGELO" wrote: > Tom, > > First of all, I would like for you to know that I was not singling you out at > all. I also was not saying that those with experience should not let people > know where the car's shortcomings are. I used to be the fleet manager of an > airline (years ago), so I happen to be highly attuned to the notion of safety > and preventive maintenance. What I am saying is quite simple: I do not think > it is at all helpful to scare people with stories of getting their feet buzz > sawed off by their flywheels -- unless you specify that you are talking about > cars that are being raced. My point -- and I really do not think you can > argue with me on it -- is that for the most part, cars being driven on the > street are probably not candidates for self destruction. Thank you. Mauro > > > On 4/16/10 1:00 PM, "Tom Hall" wrote: > >> At 07:21 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote: >>> ... I'm truly surprised that all you engineers do not understand how >>> damaging this is to the reputation of this car. >>> >>> ... What's more surprising is that no one is saying that these >>> problems are not only tied to our cool Tigers, but to all or most >>> classic cars of the era, to include Cobras and other highly sought >>> muscle cars. But go to a Mustang or Cobra forum and you won't find >>> these dire warnings of impending doom. Let's try to at least put >>> strong caveats above our warnings. Right? >>> >>> Mauro >> >> Let me get this straight, You think it's advisable, to advance the >> reputation of the marque, that those of us with historic >> understanding of certain design limitations and or possible >> shortcomings, should remain silent on these subjects. I think that >> Toyota is currently proving that this direction is not the best >> alternative. Most of us "engineers" have recognized and discussed >> these risk situations and are advising that mitigating them requires >> some action on the part of owners that for the most part, request the >> help and advice from the list. >> >> Relative "Risk" is a very personal interpretation. If you ask for >> advise and I scare you with stories of component failure, and you buy >> my Chassis Reinforcement Kit to strengthen your frame, or you direct >> your restoration to replace components that have been historically >> subject to cyclic fatigue failures, have I helped you or hurt you? >> >> Do you smoke? Can you believe that anyone, given the state of >> knowledge of that risk, would ever even consider smoking? How do >> they even manage to sell cigarettes? >> >> As a Professional Engineer, I consider that advising fellow Tiger >> owners of risk factors that I have historical, direct or even >> peripheral and specific knowledge of, to be my social >> responsibility. Same goes for "authenticity". If my TAC activities >> keep you from buying a car that was not manufactured as a Tiger by >> Rootes, I'm also reducing your risk factor, even if it is simply >> financial. You have to judge your own level of acceptable >> risk. Asking other to remain silent or severely muted, is not really >> helpful in my opinion. Anyone driving a 40 year old car has a much >> different perspective on driving safety than the general >> public. Most of the contributors on this list are simply trying to >> share their enjoyment and help others enjoy their Tigers to the >> fullest while acknowledging certain common problems. >> >> >> Tom Hall >> ModTiger Engineering LLC >> www.tigerengineering.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:33:18 2010 From: Tom Parker To: Pointers Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:43:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT This'll be fun to listen to... Gary, How many miles on the engine? You could try a tune up... plugs, points, etc. and check the timing. And an oil change with good oil. I'll assume you know what a rod and main knock sound like, and what a wrist pin knock sounds like (much higher pitched...) You can probably eliminate for the moment piston slap; that normally happens when the engine is cold. Assuming that you do, what's left in the engine? Lifters, sticky valves. valve springs. Maybe spark knock if the fuel is really old or the timing's out. First suggestion, drive the car without over-reving it. Maybe an easy fifty MPH or so (around 2,000 rpm if you have close to stock tires on it... the diameter's the thing... @ 23 - 24"). See if it "ticks" at you when the engine's good and warm. If it does, try and locate the cylinder with a stethascope (or long screwdriver, but be safe!) If it doesn't, recreate the noise at higher revs and try to isolate it. If it's a lifter, any good oil additive (except STP... too darn thick!) may help. STP gas treatment, Wynns, Bardahl (I'm showing my age; are they still around?). Maybe some Marvel Mystery Oil added to the oil on the next change. The point is first you have to isolate it. Frequently that's not an easy thing to do. Good hunting. Tom On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Pointers wrote: > Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and > benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you guys to > come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer! > > Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil for > changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high revs), > thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, sure > enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best I can > describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock either. > Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), quite > audible. > Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got varied > info. > Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10 miles), but > thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None whatsoever. > After > about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the exact > same > noise was present again. > > Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and tackle the > issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets to > share > the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil > additive...that > sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done soon). > > Engine = 302 with stock internals. > > Gary Pointer > St. Albert, Alberta > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:33:38 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:48:03 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Hi all. I have been told that the dimensions of the water pump in the workshop manual are incorrect. Argh. The manual says 5.4 inches or 13.8 centimeters from the mounting surface to the face of the fan hub. So, does anyone know the correct measurement from the fan hub face (where the fan bolts on) to the mounting surface on the later type of water pump on the Mark 2's 289 engine? This information would be very helpful to me. Thanks. Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:35:33 2010 From: Tom Parker To: gabbardalex@att.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:53:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] drim to disc conversion Dale's. Both counts. (But he ain't cheap!) Tom On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 5:52 PM, wrote: > Any recommendations/advice concerning converting rear drums to discs? > Anybody done it? If so, what parts are needed? > > Also, any advice on converting the solid front disc brakes to vented > rotors? Anybody done it? > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 17:36:38 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "gabbardalex@att.net" , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:00:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] drim to disc conversion The most straightforward thing, is to talk to Dale Akuszewski at Dale's Restorations in San Diego, figure out which setup you want to go with, and give him your credit card number. There are any number of different 'other' ways it can be done, but all of them require a decent amount of research and custom part fabrication. It depends on your skill set and tool availability. I did my own, along with a dual master cylinder and balance bar setup, but by the time it was done I probably spent nearly as much money and lots more time, compared to getting Dale's setup. My work on the rear brakes: http://members.shaw.ca/tsmit/5boltwheels/wheels.html Dale's webpage: www.dalesresto.com Cheers, Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of gabbardalex@att.net > Sent: April 16, 2010 3:53 PM > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] drim to disc conversion > > Any recommendations/advice concerning converting rear drums to discs? > Anybody done it? If so, what parts are needed? > > Also, any advice on converting the solid front disc brakes to vented > rotors? Anybody done it? > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/theo.smit@dynastream.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 18:01:34 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: "Paul R. Breuhan" , Jeff Nichols Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! In high school my Cortina caught fire on the freeway. Burning smell then thick smoke from under dash I could just barely see well enought to get to the shoulder. Elec short burnt the whole wire harness. Steve ________________________________ From: Paul R. Breuhan To: Jeff Nichols ; Tigers Den Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 2:27:53 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! In high school, a friend's VW Bug had its back seat catch on fire while we were driving to school one morning. Also personal experience tells me a burst remote oil filter line and header wrap are not a good thing on a Tiger. Paul > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:02:49 -0700 > From: jxnichols@sbcglobal.net > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! > > "What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my > fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from > the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of > a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear?" > > Don't drive a 1960's Mustang if fire worries you. The floor of a Mustang > trunk is the top of the gas tank with only the rear seat back as a > firewall. Back in the day the worker inserted the gas tank through the trunk > opening. It was done that way to make it easier to install the gas tank > while the car moved down the assembly line. Face it, these old cars are more > dangerous to drive than todays cars. > > > Jeff _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 18:32:38 2010 From: michael king To: Pointers Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:50:04 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT > Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil for > changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high revs), > thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, sure > enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best I can > describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock either. > Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), quite > audible. > You say its sort of a ticking noise?.. and comes from mid block.. its hard to know without hearing.. but if enigne is running as normal.. perhaps an exhaust leak at the heads where the manifolds mount.. do you have headers? -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 18:33:02 2010 From: "Pointers" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:52:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT Appreciate the quick responses. Answers consolidated: Theo: Chromed steel covers Kirk: Yes, hydraulic lifters Tom: - # miles on the engine unknown. - No, not experienced to tune in the diff between rod & main vs wrist pin knocks. - Believe I had isolated it to either #2 or #3 cylinders, via long screw driver to ear. - Re: additives. The guy who brokered the sale of the car 15 yrs ago, swore by Rislone Engine Treatment and suggested I run it through. I bought a litre at that time. Still sitting in the garage, as it has run great until this. Maybe I'll run it through. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 19:00:18 2010 From: John Crawley To: LIST TIGER Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:19:31 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Risky Business Boy you guys think the TIGER is dangerous . . . try driving a 56 year old MGTF  suicide doors held closed with funny little cast door latches that usually only hook on the first notch, a body that is made of more wood than tin, floor boards that really are boards, no seat belts, a steering column that is solid and aimed at the centre of your chest. So little power it can not get out of the way of its own shadow and brakes that might (or might not) stop a soapbox derby car. Top all this off with a bonnet (held in place with a couple of > inch long wood screws) and then consider that if you run into a discarded marshmallow or a stray mushroom on the road the bonnet will most likely break loose and be aimed at the spot that your head and body are connected. And remember also that the windscreen is DESIGNED to fold down and in the case of a rollover the highest point in the car is a spot about 4 inches above you navel. So do we care? Na drive em all till the road wears out. :-) Jc _________________________________________________________________ Got a phone? Get Hotmail & Messenger for mobile! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9724464 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 19:29:24 2010 From: David T Johnson To: "Paul R. Breuhan" , Jeff Nichols Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! What another English car with electrical issure. The Prince rules. The VW was prone to back seat fires if you did not use a battery that had a cover over the positive post. Sit down and the seat springs would touch the positive post and voila A hot seat. I've heard of many hard hits on the Tigers rear with no gas tanks problems. Uncle Wally's hit was so hard that his rear end was hit so hard that the engine mounts broke. No leakage. Its like the fenders protect the tanks. Dave --- On Fri, 4/16/10, Steve Ralsten wrote: From: Steve Ralsten Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! To: "Paul R. Breuhan" , "Jeff Nichols" , "Tigers Den" Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 11:12 PM In high school my Cortina caught fire on the freeway. Burning smell then thick smoke from under dash I could just barely see well enought to get to the shoulder. Elec short burnt the whole wire harness. Steve ________________________________ From: Paul R. Breuhan To: Jeff Nichols ; Tigers Den Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 2:27:53 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! In high school, a friend's VW Bug had its back seat catch on fire while we were driving to school one morning. Also personal experience tells me a burst remote oil filter line and header wrap are not a good thing on a Tiger. Paul > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:02:49 -0700 > From: jxnichols@sbcglobal.net > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Fire in the hole, ...car! > > "What about the gas tanks......Located in the fenders and crossover tubes, my > fear has always been getting hit in rear with a fire...also the opening from > the trunk to the cockpit (with the top up) scares me....Anyone ever heaqrd of > a sunbeam exploding in flames when hit in rear?" > > Don't drive a 1960's Mustang if fire worries you. The floor of a Mustang > trunk is the top of the gas tank with only the rear seat back as a > firewall. Back in the day the worker inserted the gas tank through the trunk > opening. It was done that way to make it easier to install the gas tank > while the car moved down the assembly line. Face it, these old cars are more > dangerous to drive than todays cars. > > > Jeff _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/djoh797014@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 20:57:16 2010 From: Robert Dobrowski To: gpointer@telusplanet.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:06:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT Lifter isn't pumping up On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:20:12 -0500 "Pointers" writes: > Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and > benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you > guys to > come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer! > > Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil > for > changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high > revs), > thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, > sure > enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best > I can > describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock > either. > Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), > quite audible. > Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got > varied info. > Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10 > miles), but > thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None > whatsoever. After > about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the > exact same > noise was present again. > > Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and > tackle the > issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets > to share > the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil > additive...that > sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done > soon). > > Engine = 302 with stock internals. > > Gary Pointer > St. Albert, Alberta > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rsdslp@juno.com > > ____________________________________________________________ 3.44% APR - Refinance Now $200,000 Mortgage for $898/Month! No Hidden Fees. Refi & Save w/DPR! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc917c0d43c47469m07duc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 20:59:46 2010 From: Tom Parker To: "MAURO D'ANGELO" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:24:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Mauro, If you're looking to replace the water pump you might order one from Rick at SS. It says "cast iron" but it isn't. Aluminum, I think, very light compared to the old Ford pump I had on the car. It fits the 289 timing cover exactly. I measure 5 1/4" from the mounting surface to the front of the hub - pulley & fan removed. With everything installed - fan, crank pulley, alternator - the belt lines up exactly (as opposed to the Ford pump which had the flange too far forward so the belt was out of alignment). Tom On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 6:48 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: > Hi all. I have been told that the dimensions of the water pump in the > workshop manual are incorrect. Argh. The manual says 5.4 inches or 13.8 > centimeters from the mounting surface to the face of the fan hub. So, does > anyone know the correct measurement from the fan hub face (where the fan > bolts on) to the mounting surface on the later type of water pump on the > Mark 2's 289 engine? This information would be very helpful to me. > Thanks. > Mauro > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 20:59:51 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Tom Parker Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:28:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Thanks a lot. I appreciate that. Mauro On 4/16/10 10:24 PM, "Tom Parker" wrote: > Mauro, > > If you're looking to replace the water pump you might order one from Rick at > SS. It says "cast iron" but it isn't. Aluminum, I think, very light compared > to the old Ford pump I had on the car. It fits the 289 timing cover exactly. > > I measure 5 1/4" from the mounting surface to the front of the hub - pulley & > fan removed. With everything installed - fan, crank pulley, alternator - the > belt lines up exactly (as opposed to the Ford pump which had the flange too > far forward so the belt was out of alignment). > > Tom > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 6:48 PM, MAURO D'ANGELO wrote: >> Hi all. I have been told that the dimensions of the water pump in the >> workshop manual are incorrect. Argh. The manual says 5.4 inches or 13.8 >> centimeters from the mounting surface to the face of the fan hub. So, does >> anyone know the correct measurement from the fan hub face (where the fan >> bolts on) to the mounting surface on the later type of water pump on the >> Mark 2's 289 engine? This information would be very helpful to me. Thanks. >> Mauro >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 21:33:00 2010 From: "Hall Motors" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:34:06 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Rear shoes (especially driver side) stay engaged against drum (i.e. drag/lock) after engaging the brakes with the brake pedal. Even after adjusting the shoes off the drum via the square head brake adjuster bolt on the vacuum plate, engaging brakes with pedal will reintroduce the drag/lock condition. The brake system (actually the whole car) is original configuration. The car has sit for several months at a time over the last two years. I've inspected the shoes (fine) and bled the system. I'm thinking there may be some crystallized fluid (due to moisture absorption) in the wheel cylinders, but wanted to know if any of you guys have had the same problem or have other ideas before I tear into the cylinders. Thanks, Brad Hall B382000609LRXFE _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 21:34:17 2010 From: David T Johnson To: tigers@autox.team.net, spmdr@juno.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Exploding Flywheels I've got my engine on the ground and this thread has been great. Years ago I had my flywheel surfaced when I replaced the clutch. Rick McLeod had a returned special built McCloed clutch that he saold me very reasonably as it was used. McClouid had replaced every other spring with a softer spring. The 1800lb clutch became about 1400 lbs. It has lasted for 25+ years. Easier on my left foot and clutch fork. Question about exploding clutches. I don't know how such a flat speel steel plate explodes. Was it really the flywheen bolts breaking and the flywheel moving. Or did the toothed ring come loose from the flywheel?? When I resurfaced my flywheel the machinist insisted I use new bolts specifcally made for the application. He said 'Never reuse flywheel bolts. Maybe he knew something and I should thank him Dave --- On Fri, 4/16/10, spmdr@juno.com wrote: From: spmdr@juno.com Subject: [Tigers] Exploding Flywheels To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 3:37 PM FYI Several years ago, one of the Cobras at the Willow open track Had the flywheel explode! He said he couldn't have been doing more than 5000 RPM! The good news is he had an iron Ford bellhousing and it contained the mess! The point is, it can happen ANY time! The NEWest original Tiger flywheel is 42 years old! Meal fatigue is cumulative! NEW steel flywheels are out there for a little over $100! www.themustangdepot.com For the cost of surfacing and mag testing, it's a "No Brainer"! DW ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Soaring 3000% Sign up for Free to find out what the next 3000% Stock Winner Is! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc88469a84ce4cc72m07vuc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/djoh797014@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 22:01:26 2010 From: MWood24020@aol.com To: rsdslp@juno.com, gpointer@telusplanet.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 23:26:50 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT I'd guess lifter, too. In a message dated 4/16/2010 7:58:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rsdslp@juno.com writes: Lifter isn't pumping up On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:20:12 -0500 "Pointers" writes: > Listers with engine experience, pls weigh in. Have been following and > benefited tremendously from this list for a decade...now I need you > guys to > come thru in spades, or it'll be a long summer! > > Near the end of a morning outing where I was just warming up the oil > for > changing, running it up to 60 MPH on hard acceleration (not high > revs), > thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. When back home, > sure > enough, there was a tick/knock coming from the passenger bank. Best > I can > describe is not a real tick, but not a solid bottom end knock > either. > Something in-between that, mid-block (if I'm making any sense), > quite audible. > Anyhow, parked it while I sought advice and searched the net. Got > varied info. > Summer ended (Canada). Was going to trailer it to storage (`10 > miles), but > thought I'd fire it up, and low and behold, no noise! None > whatsoever. After > about 5 miles, no prob, so applied full throttle to 60 MPH, and the > exact same > noise was present again. > > Time to park the dog sled team, fetch the car from storage and > tackle the > issue. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets > to share > the bill! (My wish is for a simple remedy...engine cleaner oil > additive...that > sort of thing. Anything requiring more time + $ may not get done > soon). > > Engine = 302 with stock internals. > > Gary Pointer > St. Albert, Alberta > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rsdslp@juno.com > > ____________________________________________________________ 3.44% APR - Refinance Now $200,000 Mortgage for $898/Month! No Hidden Fees. Refi & Save w/DPR! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bc917c0d43c47469m07duc _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 22:58:31 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:16:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT I vote for a lifter. My Mazda 323, if it sits more than 48 hours gets a lifter tick. It can last for hours..., and eventually goes away. As long as I drive it within 24 hours or so (which I normally do) it never comes back. It has done this for years. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 16 23:01:09 2010 From: "Wally Menke" To: "'Stu Brennan'" , "'Jeffrey Nichols'" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:23:09 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business The boredom will send you to sleep soundly every night! Wally Menke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Stu Brennan Sent: Friday, 16 April 2010 11:35 AM To: 'Jeffrey Nichols'; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Risky Business Be safe, Buy a Toyota. Stu __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5035 (20100416) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 06:26:52 2010 From: Randy Smith To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:46:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Brad- Take my word for this one. I had the same problem and replaced everything trying to fix it. Turned out to be the one thing I didn't replace. It's the flex line between the brake line on the car and the line on the rear axle. They look perfect on the outside, but swell shut on the inside and start to act like a one-way valve. Replace it and you'll be back in business. -Randy On 4/16/2010 10:34 PM, Hall Motors wrote: > Rear shoes (especially driver side) stay engaged against drum (i.e. > drag/lock) after engaging the brakes with the brake pedal. Even after > adjusting the shoes off the drum via the square head brake adjuster bolt on > the vacuum plate, engaging brakes with pedal will reintroduce the drag/lock > condition. The brake system (actually the whole car) is original > configuration. The car has sit for several months at a time over the last > two years. I've inspected the shoes (fine) and bled the system. I'm > thinking there may be some crystallized fluid (due to moisture absorption) > in the wheel cylinders, but wanted to know if any of you guys have had the > same problem or have other ideas before I tear into the cylinders. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad Hall > > B382000609LRXFE > -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ@cs.com Tiger- B382000189 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 06:59:36 2010 From: "Hall Motors" To: "'Tony Somebody'" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:27:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Hey Tony - Thanks for the info/experience. The attempted adjustment I reference was done with the brake booster off the car (booster in/out lines are hooked together with tubing/fittings), but I didn't drive it, just spun the wheels and applied the brakes with the car off the ground. The booster is off the car due to the fact that it went out and all the fluid was sucked out of the master cylinder into the manifold (or the booster vacuum chamber) and I had no brakes (no duh). I sent the booster to CA this week for a rebuild. Maybe the booster problem caused the rear brakes to stay engaged, but if so I'm confused by the following 1) why didn't/doesn't the issue show up with the front calipers as well, and 2) why does the issue continue with the back shoes after bleeding and adjustment with the booster off the car. I'm copying the list again with this add'l info. Thanks again, Brad Hall B382000609LRXFE From: Tony Somebody [mailto:achd73@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 10:50 PM To: Hall Motors Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Brad- one thing the brake booster does is not release the brakes after using them or it sucks the brake fluid thru the vaccum hose and into the engine. You can disconnect the brake booster from the vaccum and the prolem will go away- to do it properly they sell a by pass hose. I have a S6 which hasnt been dive much since I bought it and the first thing it did was the booster started holdin the brakes on- You can kill the vaccum, so the brakes release by pumping the brakes with the engine off- so IF I have to stop, I use the e-brake and downshit OR if I have to use the brakes in addition, I kill the engine, pump like hell, restart and go again- I have used them at road speed and killed the engine- put it in neutral and pump the brakes- restart- downshift to proper gear and drive BUT the car hasnt been drivien in a long time- that needs fixed as I paid big bucks for this S5- its tha nice- orginally a Ca. car. Just have to many beams and medical problems - do good just keeping the Tiger going BUT Im going to win the lotto and my $$$ probelms will be over and someone else can fix my toys. LOL Of course if you dot have a booster than this is all moot but thats how my stuck brakes on more than one beam have reacted etc. Cheers, TonytheTiger --- On Fri, 4/16/10, Hall Motors wrote: From: Hall Motors Subject: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 9:34 PM Rear shoes (especially driver side) stay engaged against drum (i.e. drag/lock) after engaging the brakes with the brake pedal. Even after adjusting the shoes off the drum via the square head brake adjuster bolt on the vacuum plate, engaging brakes with pedal will reintroduce the drag/lock condition. The brake system (actually the whole car) is original configuration. The car has sit for several months at a time over the last two years. I've inspected the shoes (fine) and bled the system. I'm thinking there may be some crystallized fluid (due to moisture absorption) in the wheel cylinders, but wanted to know if any of you guys have had the same problem or have other ideas before I tear into the cylinders. Thanks, Brad Hall B382000609LRXFE _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 07:29:55 2010 From: "=?utf-8?B?c3Bvb2swMUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA==?=" To: "=?utf-8?B?VGhvbWFzIFdpdHQ=?=" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 06:35:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Advice_req=27d_on_engine_noise_-_URGENT?= Try s quart of rislone in the engine to free up the lifter. Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Thomas Witt" Date: Sat, Apr 17, 2010 00:16 Subject: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT To: I vote for a lifter. My Mazda 323, if it sits more than 48 hours gets a lifter tick. It can last for hours..., and eventually goes away. As long as I drive it within 24 hours or so (which I normally do) it never comes back. It has done this for years. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/spook01@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 07:30:13 2010 From: MAURO D'ANGELO To: Randy Smith , Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 08:56:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Brad, I think Randy is right that this could be the answer. I had the same symptoms, which only got worse as time passed, on the front calipers on another car. Replacing the rubber hoses cured the problem immediately. Basically, the idea is that fluid can make it through the hose to the caliper or brake cylinder because it's pressured by the master cylinder. But since the pressure is "one way", the fluid needs a clear path to return toward the master cylinder in order to release the brake. With an internally swollen hose, the pressure gets stuck at the brake. I hope that makes sense. Hoses are cheap and the job is not hard unless you have a lot of corrosion to deal with. Cheers. Mauro On 4/17/10 7:46 AM, "Randy Smith" wrote: > Brad- > > Take my word for this one. I had the same problem and replaced > everything trying to fix it. Turned out to be the one thing I didn't > replace. It's the flex line between the brake line on the car and the > line on the rear axle. They look perfect on the outside, but swell shut > on the inside and start to act like a one-way valve. Replace it and > you'll be back in business. > > -Randy > > On 4/16/2010 10:34 PM, Hall Motors wrote: >> Rear shoes (especially driver side) stay engaged against drum (i.e. >> drag/lock) after engaging the brakes with the brake pedal. Even after >> adjusting the shoes off the drum via the square head brake adjuster bolt on >> the vacuum plate, engaging brakes with pedal will reintroduce the drag/lock >> condition. The brake system (actually the whole car) is original >> configuration. The car has sit for several months at a time over the last >> two years. I've inspected the shoes (fine) and bled the system. I'm >> thinking there may be some crystallized fluid (due to moisture absorption) >> in the wheel cylinders, but wanted to know if any of you guys have had the >> same problem or have other ideas before I tear into the cylinders. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Brad Hall >> >> B382000609LRXFE _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 07:57:14 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:01:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Mauro The distance from the pump face to the hub is Tiger specific. See the Shop Manual then check your pump. Please note the numbers for this distance are NOT correct in the Manual, so check your pump. Also check that when the pump is on the engine that the fan belt is straight between all the pulleys. This is another indication that you have the original parts or at least the right distance. Distance in the Manual 260 5.15" 289 5.43" Correct Numbers 4.875" 5.1" The source of the correct numbers is "The Sunbeam Survivor" from TE/AE. I encourage everyone to check the pulley alignment on their Tiger. This tells you whether or not someone has replaced parts and knew what they were doing or if anything else might have been changed. 2nd - you know the water pump hub is in the correct position or not; you can rebuild your water pump or buy a new one and put the hub to the correct distance. See the Shop Manual about measuring the distance. Note; the water pump hub B9ME-8553-A could be a unique Tiger part. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:48 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Hi all. I have been told that the dimensions of the water pump in the workshop manual are incorrect. Argh. The manual says 5.4 inches or 13.8 centimeters from the mounting surface to the face of the fan hub. So, does anyone know the correct measurement from the fan hub face (where the fan bolts on) to the mounting surface on the later type of water pump on the Mark 2's 289 engine? This information would be very helpful to me. Thanks. Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2814 - Release Date: 04/16/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 08:26:51 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Randy Smith'" , Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:33:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Randy You make a valid point; rubber brake hoses can do this. Been there, experienced that on another car. I have the stainless steel style hoses on my Tiger now. I also had another car that I could not get the rear drum brakes to not drag after repeated attempts at adjusting them. I finally realized the problem when I pulled the drum off and the brake material fell off the backer plate. I suggest you carefully inspect everything. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randy Smith Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:47 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Brad- Take my word for this one. I had the same problem and replaced everything trying to fix it. Turned out to be the one thing I didn't replace. It's the flex line between the brake line on the car and the line on the rear axle. They look perfect on the outside, but swell shut on the inside and start to act like a one-way valve. Replace it and you'll be back in business. -Randy On 4/16/2010 10:34 PM, Hall Motors wrote: > Rear shoes (especially driver side) stay engaged against drum (i.e. > drag/lock) after engaging the brakes with the brake pedal. Even after > adjusting the shoes off the drum via the square head brake adjuster > bolt on the vacuum plate, engaging brakes with pedal will reintroduce > the drag/lock condition. The brake system (actually the whole car) is > original configuration. The car has sit for several months at a time > over the last two years. I've inspected the shoes (fine) and bled the > system. I'm thinking there may be some crystallized fluid (due to > moisture absorption) in the wheel cylinders, but wanted to know if any > of you guys have had the same problem or have other ideas before I > tear into the cylinders. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad Hall > > B382000609LRXFE > -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ@cs.com Tiger- B382000189 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2814 - Release Date: 04/17/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 08:26:56 2010 From: Carmods@aol.com To: gpointer@telusplanet.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:36:03 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT _gpointer@telusplanet.net_ (mailto:gpointer@telusplanet.net) writes: thought I heard something ticking at the stop light. All suggestions appreciated. The winning recommendation gets to share the bill! Hi Gary, Here are two "simple fix" suggestions. 1. I would vote for a lifter problem, however, since it starts quiet ,then gets noisy that would indicate low oil pressure to the lifter if it only happens at idle. If it's a high mileage engine, maybe it could be fixed with a heavier oil or higher idle speed. 2. I had a similar but opposite problem a few years ago. There was a noise that sounded like a tick or knock coming from the right side of the engine at start up but went away as it warmed up. After a lot of fretting and consternation, I found that it was coming from the exhaust header connection to the tail pipe. The problem went away by simply relocating and tightening a clamp. I hope you will be that lucky. John Logan _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 08:56:39 2010 From: "=?utf-8?B?c3Bvb2swMUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA==?=" To: "=?utf-8?B?Um9uIEZyYXNlcg==?=" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 08:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Dimensions_of_Water_pump_for_289?= As I recall, the hub is a unit from another Ford product, pressed on backwards. Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone ----- Reply message ----- From: " Ron Fraser" Date: Sat, Apr 17, 2010 09:01 Subject: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 To: "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , Mauro The distance from the pump face to the hub is Tiger specific. See the Shop Manual then check your pump. Please note the numbers for this distance are NOT correct in the Manual, so check your pump. Also check that when the pump is on the engine that the fan belt is straight between all the pulleys. This is another indication that you have the original parts or at least the right distance. Distance in the Manual 260 5.15" 289 5.43" Correct Numbers 4.875" 5.1" The source of the correct numbers is "The Sunbeam Survivor" from TE/AE. I encourage everyone to check the pulley alignment on their Tiger. This tells you whether or not someone has replaced parts and knew what they were doing or if anything else might have been changed. 2nd - you know the water pump hub is in the correct position or not; you can rebuild your water pump or buy a new one and put the hub to the correct distance. See the Shop Manual about measuring the distance. Note; the water pump hub B9ME-8553-A could be a unique Tiger part. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MAURO D'ANGELO Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:48 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Hi all. I have been told that the dimensions of the water pump in the workshop manual are incorrect. Argh. The manual says 5.4 inches or 13.8 centimeters from the mounting surface to the face of the fan hub. So, does anyone know the correct measurement from the fan hub face (where the fan bolts on) to the mounting surface on the later type of water pump on the Mark 2's 289 engine? This information would be very helpful to me. Thanks. Mauro _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2814 - Release Date: 04/16/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/spook01@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 09:24:55 2010 From: "Mark44124" To: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:32:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT I remember pulling into the garage once and hearing a very audible ticking. Thinking it was a lifter or loose rocker I pulled off the valve cover and checked all the pushrods. Everything was tight. Started up the engine and noticed the ticking was the same volume and timbre when cold. Turns out that a plug wire had worked loose enough to form a gap between the plug end and the connector. The sound was the arcing of the spark across the gap. A new set of wires cured that easily. Sometimes it is the easy stuff. If you do determine that it is a lifter and not a rocker and the Risoline does not cure it, installing a high volume (NOT high pressure) oil pump can usually cure that. Bugz --------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:52:54 -0500 From: "Pointers" Subject: Re: [Tigers] Advice req'd on engine noise - URGENT To: Cc: Theo Smit Appreciate the quick responses. Answers consolidated: Theo: Chromed steel covers Kirk: Yes, hydraulic lifters Tom: - # miles on the engine unknown. - No, not experienced to tune in the diff between rod & main vs wrist pin knocks. - Believe I had isolated it to either #2 or #3 cylinders, via long screw driver to ear. - Re: additives. The guy who brokered the sale of the car 15 yrs ago, swore by Rislone Engine Treatment and suggested I run it through. I bought a litre at that time. Still sitting in the garage, as it has run great until this. Maybe I'll run it through. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 09:25:16 2010 From: Dave Munroe To: rfraser@bluefrog.com, 'MAURO D'ANGELO' , Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:36:15 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Ron and all; Correct after-market water pumps for the Tiger, (Rick's at SS notwithstanding) are difficult to source. There are many advertised for 1964-69 289 +++ SBF, but their advertised pump mounting surface to fan mounting dimensions are all over the map. Beyond the importance of correctly aligning the pulleys, the distance from the pump mounting surface to the oversize rad I have fitted is 6". Pump suppliers do not advertise the overall dimension from the pump mounting surface to the end of the pump shaft. Many of the pumps advertised for our engines are actually longer than 6" ! So for sure they won't fit on my car. The only pump I could find that was close to the original pump dimensions was the Stewart Stage 1 #16103 which is an alloy pump w/o a rear cover. It shows the pump mounting surface to fan flange surface at 5.09", which matches with the "Sunbeam Survivor" dimensions. (5.1") The only problem is the shaft is 3/8" longer than stock. I have ordered one of these pumps with the plan of shortening the shaft to the original pump dimensions. My original pump is the one with the dreaded pressed steel impeller. Since I have my engine out now, it seemed a good time to replace it with a more modern, efficient pump. This Stewart pump has a 3/4" ball bearing, and a high flow impeller. Just what the doctor ordered. Nothing is simple with these cars. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Fraser" April 17, 2010 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 Mauro The distance from the pump face to the hub is Tiger specific. See the Shop Manual then check your pump. Please note the numbers for this distance are NOT correct in the Manual, so check your pump. Also check that when the pump is on the engine that the fan belt is straight between all the pulleys. This is another indication that you have the original parts or at least the right distance. Distance in the Manual 260 5.15" 289 5.43" Correct Numbers 4.875" 5.1" The source of the correct numbers is "The Sunbeam Survivor" from TE/AE. I encourage everyone to check the pulley alignment on their Tiger. This tells you whether or not someone has replaced parts and knew what they were doing or if anything else might have been changed. 2nd - you know the water pump hub is in the correct position or not; you can rebuild your water pump or buy a new one and put the hub to the correct distance. See the Shop Manual about measuring the distance. Note; the water pump hub B9ME-8553-A could be a unique Tiger part. Ron Fraser _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 09:54:30 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , "'MAURO D'ANGELO'" , Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:01:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 B9ME-8553-A is a 1959 Mercury part number The real question is was it modified for the Tiger; without parts in hand to compare I can't say. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: spook01@comcast.net [mailto:spook01@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:27 AM To: Ron Fraser; 'MAURO D'ANGELO'; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 As I recall, the hub is a unit from another Ford product, pressed on backwards. Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 10:28:25 2010 From: "Hall Motors" To: , "'Randy Smith'" , Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:42:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Thanks to all; I've had the drums off and inspected the shoes, etc., but hadn't considered the flexible line. All three (2 up front and 1 in back) are the stainless steel style and I don't know when they were installed (I've had the car for two years). Do the stainless style flexible lines have rubber liners; if not, are they still subject to the same constriction problem? Thanks Again, Brad Hall B382000609LRXFE -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:34 AM To: 'Randy Smith'; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Randy You make a valid point; rubber brake hoses can do this. Been there, experienced that on another car. I have the stainless steel style hoses on my Tiger now. I also had another car that I could not get the rear drum brakes to not drag after repeated attempts at adjusting them. I finally realized the problem when I pulled the drum off and the brake material fell off the backer plate. I suggest you carefully inspect everything. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randy Smith Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:47 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Brake Shoe Drag Brad- Take my word for this one. I had the same problem and replaced everything trying to fix it. Turned out to be the one thing I didn't replace. It's the flex line between the brake line on the car and the line on the rear axle. They look perfect on the outside, but swell shut on the inside and start to act like a one-way valve. Replace it and you'll be back in business. -Randy On 4/16/2010 10:34 PM, Hall Motors wrote: > Rear shoes (especially driver side) stay engaged against drum (i.e. > drag/lock) after engaging the brakes with the brake pedal. Even after > adjusting the shoes off the drum via the square head brake adjuster > bolt on the vacuum plate, engaging brakes with pedal will reintroduce > the drag/lock condition. The brake system (actually the whole car) is > original configuration. The car has sit for several months at a time > over the last two years. I've inspected the shoes (fine) and bled the > system. I'm thinking there may be some crystallized fluid (due to > moisture absorption) in the wheel cylinders, but wanted to know if any > of you guys have had the same problem or have other ideas before I > tear into the cylinders. > > > > Thanks, > > Brad Hall > > B382000609LRXFE > -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ@cs.com Tiger- B382000189 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser@bluefrog.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2814 - Release Date: 04/17/10 06:31:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/hallmotors@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 17 10:57:59 2010 From: "=?utf-8?B?c3Bvb2swMUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA==?=" To: "=?utf-8?B?RGF2ZSBNdW5yb2U=?=" , rfraser@bluefrog.com, Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:02:39 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Dimensions_of_Water_pump_for_289?= Are the dimensions different between a tiger pump for the 260, 289 and 302 engines? Are the open and closed impellor measurements the same? Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Dave Munroe" Date: Sat, Apr 17, 2010 10:36 Subject: [Tigers] Dimensions of Water pump for 289 To: , "'MAURO D'ANGELO'"