From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 1 00:31:32 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: "tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger" , Allan Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 23:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 heads I have 2 sets of 1965 heads- my machinist, now retired and a Ford man said the 65 heads had a higher nickle content , making them stronger. he replaced the seats and valve guides- the seats for unleaded fuel, he then used Chevy valves. There is just barley room for them both to close. I haven't ported either set and actually he only built one set, another Tiger owner from the north east area sold me several of his spare parts and he had a set of 289 heads already built exactly like mine. I am running those on a 289 and yes, there is a major difference BUT now I would invest in a set of aluminum heads as opposed to paying the machinist for his time. Luckily for me, when I had the heads built, labor wasn't so expensive and as I mentioned, me machinist was a Ford person thru and thru and enjoyed helping build a go fast Ford engine. If you are going to keep your 260 or go to 289 heads you can increase the size of the valves- depending on the cc of the head. I also highly recommend porting and polishing and if you don't have the patience, the professionals don't charge a ton. I spent $100 on my S5, 1725 head and the work was wonderful BUT that's in southern IL. I'm sure things cost more on the left coast. Hope this helps some. TOO, congrats to "would you believe" for finding his loose bolt- sure did have the list working hard solving that problem. Next time I bet someone ask if everything has been rechecked for torque. Cheers, TtT _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 1 07:15:09 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Beamclub Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 06:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] what a way to start my day You basically humiliated me publically, saying I bmade the list work so hardbB . B IveB again been acused of f------- up on the list- the last time I quoted a fried. I did reply to one person I thought was a friend and another I dont know BUT heres the bottom line. I would and will never purposely say anything to disrespect , disgrace anyone, anyones religion, color, creed or opinion. On the other hand, I will stand up for myself and if necessary to to the gravel, shhot baskets, play pooll, shhoyB B marbels or just plain argue to settle any differences someone might have with me- at all cost I will try to avoid the gravel thing BUT dont think for a second I havent been there or I wont go back, I have the knife scars to prove one of my trips but I romise you, he suffered more than did I. So Mr would U believe- , I publicaly apoligise to you for wat you consider me humilitating you. As I explained, I did no such thing, the List is here to help everyone and if anything we learned- that the next time the same problem arises, ask if they have checked toruqe.If anyone had thought to ask that then everyone wouldnt have been pounding our brain, trying to figure why your clutch wouldnt work. SO, now, I have unhumiliated you. As for the 2 guys who sent emails. One that said no need to apllogise- its not accepted- I thought you a much better man and for the chump who call me an asshole- well, hopefully, one day I will get to show you just how big an asshole I am. My apologises to everyone for my rudeness but a person can only take so much bull crap and then he get extremely pissed and WYB- if you think that rmoving the rust caused the ear to brak off the exhaust manifold, you need to go back to porches. TonytheTigerB B B _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 1 08:46:50 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Allan Ballard'" , Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 10:45:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 heads Allan Generally the 289 heads have bigger intake and exhaust ports than the 260 heads. The 289 intake manifold also has bigger ports than the 260 intake manifold. If you are using the 260 intake with the 289 heads you might see some improvement but the 289 intake with 289 heads should be the better combination. If you have the complete 5 bolt 289 engine; I would rebuild that engine and leave the 260 alone. FYI: The early 260 engine rated at 164 HP is for the smaller valve heads only, built before Feb 1964; the later 260 with larger valves was never tested for HP by Ford. I would estimate that the later 260 engine should be rated at around 185 HP but I have no information to back up that statement. There are numerous combinations of part for the 260 that can improve performance but there is little more than seat of the pants information to quantify the gains. Just installing a 300 cfm carb might give a good gain but I don't have any engine pull numbers to support that. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allan Ballard Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:08 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger Subject: [Tigers] 289 heads Is there any performance advantage to 289 heads on a stock 260 Tiger motor? I need to redo my valves to be ready for current unleaded gas, and thought to rebuild 289 heads instead off a 64 1/2 5 bolt 289 motor if there is any performance advantage... If not, might as well redo the valves on the 260 heads. Thanks in avance, _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 1 08:48:06 2010 From: "Scott Hutchinson" To: , , Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 10:48:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 heads I had heard somewhere that the 260 combustion camber was actually quite good. Faced with the same dilemma that you have I went with 289 hipo valves in the 260 head. Very happy with the result, but you need to be VERY careful about piston valve interference. I had to advance my cam four degrees to make it work. This is with a comp roller cam, so the ramps are pretty steep. The cam itself is not that aggressive when compare to say a 289 hipo cam, but the roller aspect of it gets the valves open and closed fairly quickly. Amen on all the porting and polishing. Scott Hutchinson Pilot, NJI, Inc. Mobile 843.290.2805 *** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 01:35:08 2010 From: michael king To: Tiger Talk List Tiger Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 17:35:37 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] MKII production MKII tigers were produced from when in '67 to June '67? -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 02:47:07 2010 From: "Ross" To: "'michael king'" , "'Tiger Talk List Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:41:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] MKII production December 1966 until late June 1967. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of michael king Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 12:36 AM To: Tiger Talk List Tiger Subject: [Tigers] MKII production MKII tigers were produced from when in '67 to June '67? -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ross_hulse@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 02:47:50 2010 From: arado7@sbcglobal.net To: "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] my new Tiger I have my new "Tiger" It is a Crossfire SRT6 roadster in black. amazing car to drive and I don't have to restore it. Gary B9472283 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 05:47:37 2010 From: "rande" To: michael.s.king@gmail.com Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 07:44:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Mark II production According to BON, I.D.'s # 1 and 2 have the Jensen date 19/12/66, and these are thought to be pre-production assembly line cars. The Jensen dates start again on 21/12/66, according to Norm's book. The Mike Taylor books list the resumption of production as 23/12/66. Both sources list the the last Tiger Mark II's built with the date 27/6/67, and as Norm pointed, with the exception of cars #1 and #2, the I.D. numbers were NOT consecutive relative to the Jensen dates. After car #2, the numbering system jumped to #100 and rolled on from there. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 06:48:30 2010 From: "rande" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 08:46:50 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] rewrite -MK II production From: "rande" According to BON, I.D.'s # 1 and 2 have the Jensen date 19/12/66, and these are thought to be pre-production assembly line cars. The Jensen dates start again on 21/12/66, according to Norm's book. The Mike Taylor books list the resumption of production as 23/12/66. Both sources list the the last Tiger Mark II's built with the date 27/6/67, and as Norm pointed, with the exception of cars #1 and #2, the I.D. numbers system jumped to #100 and rolled on from there.In addition to this, I.D.numbers and Jensen dates don't coincide. You'll notice that Norms book lists cars sequentially by I.D., but the Jensen dates are out of sequence,i.e the next earliest date after car #2 is 21/12/66 for cars #108 and #103, and there are many other examples. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 09:03:00 2010 From: Howard gentry To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 07:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Ford 260 Cobra engine(production) The Ford 260 Engine Specs Author: Ford Information (more...) Ford 260 V-8 Engines 260 "F" 1963-65 260 "D" 1964 1/2 Engine Type 8 cylinder 90 degree, Overhead Valves (OHV) 8 cylinder 90 degree, Overhead Valves (OHV) Displacement 260 cu.inches (CID) 260 cu.inches (CID) Maximum torque 258 lbs./ft. @ 2,200 RPM (standard) 269 lbs./ft. @ 4,500 RPM (Shelby Cobra) Maximum Horsepower 164 BHP @ 4,400 RPM (standard) 260 BHP @ 5,800 RPM (Shelby Cobra) Firing Order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 (number one cylinder on right hand bank nearest radiator.) 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 (number one cylinder on right hand bank nearest radiator.) Bore & Stroke 3.80" X 2.87" (96.5 mm X 72.8 mm) 4.00" X 2.87" Compression Ratio 8.8:1 (standard) 9.21:1 (Shelby Cobra) Compression Pressure 130-170 psi 130-170 psi Oil Pressure (hot) 35 to 60 lbf/in2 Mains Carburetor Autolite 2100 (2V) automatic choke Autolite 4100 (4V) manual choke Autolite 2100 (2V) automatic choke Autolite 4100 (4V) manual choke Size of Carburetor Fuel regular gas regular gas Intake Manifold cast iron (standard) aluminum (Shelby only) cast iron (standard) aluminum (Shelby only) Valve train hydraulic lifters (standard) solid & adjustable lifters (Shelby Cobra) hydraulic lifters (standard) solid & adjustable lifters (Shelby Cobra) Intake 1.662"-1.6787" 1.662"-1.6787" Exhaust 1.442"-1.457" 1.442"-1.457" Distributor single point vacuum advance (standard) dual point mechanical advance (Shelby Cobra) single point vacuum advance (standard) dual point mechanical advance (Shelby Cobra) Spark Plugs Autolite BF-42 Autolite BF-42 Point Gap .014"-.016" .032-.036 Initial Ignition Timing 4 degrees (Manual) 8 degrees (Automatic) 8 degrees Long Block Weight in lbs. 460 460 Emission Controls RPM Rev Limiter 1962 - Used in the Shelby Cobra, the Mercury Comet and the Ford Fairlaine. 1963 - Used in the Shelby Cobra, the Mercury Comet, the Ford Fairlane, the Ford Galaxy, and the Mercury Meteor 1964 - Used in the Shelby Cobra, the Mercury Comet, the Ford Fairlane, and the Ford Falcon. 1965 - Used in the newly introduced Mustang in April 1964 and was offered only until August. As we can see here, the 260 HP 260 CI Ford engine is not a highly modified "special" by any means..It incorporates a 4 bbl carb, low 9.9/1 compression and stock heads..I believe that someone who wanted a 260 in their Tiger could make this engine or better it, due to new materials and equipment offered today. zym The Blues is the only music Original to the United States of America. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 10:22:26 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 13:20:39 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Ok guys, the mystery continues. I have sought advice here about oil pressure and we have discussed this before. But now more intelligence has been gathered. My engine was built by a well meaning but as it turns out, inexperienced Brit mechanic in 2005. Amongst more serious problems, my engine's oil pressure also was below what I have come to believe is "normal" pressure for a fresh, quality re-build.(50 to 55 psi cold, 40 to 50 psi hot with 10-30W oil). I was tired of, and concerned with, the O.P. gauge showing the needle far to far to the left of center. I had my engine removed and "blue-printed" by a knowledgeable and highly regarded local shop. They found and corrected the other, more serious problems, and when reassembled, put it on their shop dyno. During the rebuild they installed a new, standard oil pump on the recommendation of many on this list who responded to my earlier inquiries, to replace the high volume pump that I had installed in the first re-build.They also installed a large filter directly on the block for the several pulls the engine went through on the dyno. They had hooked-up a mechanical oil pressure guage and a transducer that fed into their diagnostic computer. My engine was showing 70 psi at 1500 rpm, and it rose to 75 at 5500 rpm (redline). Back in the car with the remote oil filter set-up, with new, large diameter hoses fitted, it shows 45 psi cold, and 25-30 hot at 3,000 to 4,000 rpm. I am at a loss to understand how the remote filter set-up could possibly cause this drop in indicated pressure. The only other variable is my pressure gauge, which is nothing if not consistent. I will appreciate any wisdom or suggestions as to what is going on and how to correct this low pressure problem. Thanks for your help, Dave _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 10:48:31 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: "'Dave Munroe'" , Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 11:40:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure I would think that the oil pressure gauge is the culprit, try hooking up another oil pressure gauge (one you know works) and hook it up at the end of the pressure line coming from the engine (under the dash). This way you will see what your gauge is actually seeing. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:21 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Ok guys, the mystery continues. I have sought advice here about oil pressure and we have discussed this before. But now more intelligence has been gathered. My engine was built by a well meaning but as it turns out, inexperienced Brit mechanic in 2005. Amongst more serious problems, my engine's oil pressure also was below what I have come to believe is "normal" pressure for a fresh, quality re-build.(50 to 55 psi cold, 40 to 50 psi hot with 10-30W oil). I was tired of, and concerned with, the O.P. gauge showing the needle far to far to the left of center. I had my engine removed and "blue-printed" by a knowledgeable and highly regarded local shop. They found and corrected the other, more serious problems, and when reassembled, put it on their shop dyno. During the rebuild they installed a new, standard oil pump on the recommendation of many on this list who responded to my earlier inquiries, to replace the high volume pump that I had installed in the first re-build.They also installed a large filter directly on the block for the several pulls the engine went through on the dyno. They had hooked-up a mechanical oil pressure guage and a transducer that fed into their diagnostic computer. My engine was showing 70 psi at 1500 rpm, and it rose to 75 at 5500 rpm (redline). Back in the car with the remote oil filter set-up, with new, large diameter hoses fitted, it shows 45 psi cold, and 25-30 hot at 3,000 to 4,000 rpm. I am at a loss to understand how the remote filter set-up could possibly cause this drop in indicated pressure. The only other variable is my pressure gauge, which is nothing if not consistent. I will appreciate any wisdom or suggestions as to what is going on and how to correct this low pressure problem. Thanks for your help, Dave _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 10:48:49 2010 From: Tom Parker To: Dave Munroe Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 12:45:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure >From the earlier post today we can assume oil pressure on a 260 / 289 should be between @ 30 - 60 lbs. from the factory. The remote filter shouldn't reduce the pressure unless there's a leak. (He said, not really knowing...) So... the obvious question: have you checked your gauge? You implied the shop used their gauge and a transducer. Tom On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Dave Munroe wrote: > Ok guys, the mystery continues. > > I have sought advice here about oil pressure and we have discussed this > before. But now more intelligence has been gathered. > > My engine was built by a well meaning but as it turns out, inexperienced > Brit mechanic in 2005. Amongst more serious problems, > my engine's oil pressure also was below what I have come to believe is > "normal" pressure for a fresh, quality re-build.(50 to 55 psi cold, 40 to 50 > psi hot with 10-30W oil). I was tired of, and concerned with, the O.P. gauge > showing the needle far to far to the left of center. > > I had my engine removed and "blue-printed" by a knowledgeable and highly > regarded local shop. They found and corrected the other, more serious > problems, and when reassembled, put it on their shop dyno. During the > rebuild they installed a new, standard oil pump on the recommendation of > many on this list who responded to my earlier inquiries, to replace the high > volume pump that I had installed in the first re-build.They also installed a > large filter directly on the block for the several pulls the engine went > through on the dyno. They had hooked-up a mechanical oil pressure guage and > a transducer that fed into their diagnostic computer. My engine was showing > 70 psi at 1500 rpm, and it rose to 75 at 5500 rpm (redline). > > Back in the car with the remote oil filter set-up, with new, large diameter > hoses fitted, it shows 45 psi cold, and 25-30 hot at 3,000 to 4,000 rpm. I > am at a loss to understand how the remote filter set-up could possibly cause > this drop in indicated pressure. The only other variable is my pressure > gauge, which is nothing if not consistent. > > I will appreciate any wisdom or suggestions as to what is going on and how > to correct this low pressure problem. > > Thanks for your help, > > Dave _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 11:18:17 2010 From: drmayf To: Dave Munroe Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:12:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Dave, several things come to mind. One is, of course, the in dash pressure gauge. See if you can rig up a second gauge for a direct comparison. But, there are other issues as well. If you have the stock remote oil filter setup, then the adapter at the block receives the oil and makes a hard right turn headed to the filter. It must pass the hose to adapter fitting, the solid part of the hose to "rubber" hose connecion twice and then flow though another hose fiting at the filter adaper and then make another hard turn going into the filter proper. Ther filter to engine comes straight out of the filter through a fitting, then through the similar hose, with its losses, then into the block adapter. So, there are a number of places where the flow can be reduced. reducing the flow on the down stream side reduces the pressure. Also, did the dyno shop drain the oil and you put in a different viscosity? If so, that will change the flow and pressure also. Did you use the same oil brand and weight? When they had the engine on the dyno, how big was the mechanical gauge pressure line or was it screwed directly into the engine? The dinky oil pressure line that runs to the dash gauge can cause some pressure losses. It would have been interesting if the shop had used your remote filter set up on the dyno. Why didn't they? just some things to think about... mayf Dave Munroe wrote: > Ok guys, the mystery continues. > > I have sought advice here about oil pressure and we have discussed > this before. But now more intelligence has been gathered. > > My engine was built by a well meaning but as it turns out, > inexperienced Brit mechanic in 2005. Amongst more serious problems, > my engine's oil pressure also was below what I have come to believe is > "normal" pressure for a fresh, quality re-build.(50 to 55 psi cold, 40 > to 50 psi hot with 10-30W oil). I was tired of, and concerned with, > the O.P. gauge showing the needle far to far to the left of center. > > I had my engine removed and "blue-printed" by a knowledgeable and > highly regarded local shop. They found and corrected the other, more > serious problems, and when reassembled, put it on their shop dyno. > During the rebuild they installed a new, standard oil pump on the > recommendation of many on this list who responded to my earlier > inquiries, to replace the high volume pump that I had installed in the > first re-build.They also installed a large filter directly on the > block for the several pulls the engine went through on the dyno. They > had hooked-up a mechanical oil pressure guage and a transducer that > fed into their diagnostic computer. My engine was showing 70 psi at > 1500 rpm, and it rose to 75 at 5500 rpm (redline). > > Back in the car with the remote oil filter set-up, with new, large > diameter hoses fitted, it shows 45 psi cold, and 25-30 hot at 3,000 to > 4,000 rpm. I am at a loss to understand how the remote filter set-up > could possibly cause this drop in indicated pressure. The only other > variable is my pressure gauge, which is nothing if not consistent. > > I will appreciate any wisdom or suggestions as to what is going on and > how to correct this low pressure problem. > > Thanks for your help, _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 11:52:38 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: "Tom Parker" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:52:47 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Tom; Jerry: I haven't checked the gauge, which I should have done, and will, as soon as I can get hold of a good quality gauge. I plan to hook it up at the block fitting of the remote set-up. There are a couple of ports there that have allen key plugs in them. Thanks, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Parker To: Dave Munroe Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure From the earlier post today we can assume oil pressure on a 260 / 289 should be between @ 30 - 60 lbs. from the factory. The remote filter shouldn't reduce the pressure unless there's a leak. (He said, not really knowing...) So... the obvious question: have you checked your gauge? You implied the shop used their gauge and a transducer. Tom On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Dave Munroe wrote: Ok guys, the mystery continues. I have sought advice here about oil pressure and we have discussed this before. But now more intelligence has been gathered. My engine was built by a well meaning but as it turns out, inexperienced Brit mechanic in 2005. Amongst more serious problems, my engine's oil pressure also was below what I have come to believe is "normal" pressure for a fresh, quality re-build.(50 to 55 psi cold, 40 to 50 psi hot with 10-30W oil). I was tired of, and concerned with, the O.P. gauge showing the needle far to far to the left of center. I had my engine removed and "blue-printed" by a knowledgeable and highly regarded local shop. They found and corrected the other, more serious problems, and when reassembled, put it on their shop dyno. During the rebuild they installed a new, standard oil pump on the recommendation of many on this list who responded to my earlier inquiries, to replace the high volume pump that I had installed in the first re-build.They also installed a large filter directly on the block for the several pulls the engine went through on the dyno. They had hooked-up a mechanical oil pressure guage and a transducer that fed into their diagnostic computer. My engine was showing 70 psi at 1500 rpm, and it rose to 75 at 5500 rpm (redline). Back in the car with the remote oil filter set-up, with new, large diameter hoses fitted, it shows 45 psi cold, and 25-30 hot at 3,000 to 4,000 rpm. I am at a loss to understand how the remote filter set-up could possibly cause this drop in indicated pressure. The only other variable is my pressure gauge, which is nothing if not consistent. I will appreciate any wisdom or suggestions as to what is going on and how to correct this low pressure problem. Thanks for your help, Dave _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 12:03:08 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:56:42 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Fw: Oil Pressure Buck: I am using an aftermarket one. I had different flex lines originally, but changed them to larger diameter ones after a suggestion from this list that a restriction downstream from the pump might starve the pump and lower the pressure. Thanks, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buck Trippel" To: "Dave Munroe" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure > Private: > > Are you using the stock remote oil filter or an aftermarket one? > > bt > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Munroe" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure > > >> Ok guys, the mystery continues. >> >> I have sought advice here about oil pressure and we have discussed this >> before. But now more intelligence has been gathered. >> >> My engine was built by a well meaning but as it turns out, inexperienced >> Brit mechanic in 2005. Amongst more serious problems, >> my engine's oil pressure also was below what I have come to believe is >> "normal" pressure for a fresh, quality re-build.(50 to 55 psi cold, 40 to >> 50 psi hot with 10-30W oil). I was tired of, and concerned with, the O.P. >> gauge showing the needle far to far to the left of center. >> >> I had my engine removed and "blue-printed" by a knowledgeable and highly >> regarded local shop. They found and corrected the other, more serious >> problems, and when reassembled, put it on their shop dyno. During the >> rebuild they installed a new, standard oil pump on the recommendation of >> many on this list who responded to my earlier inquiries, to replace the >> high volume pump that I had installed in the first re-build.They also >> installed a large filter directly on the block for the several pulls the >> engine went through on the dyno. They had hooked-up a mechanical oil >> pressure guage and a transducer that fed into their diagnostic computer. >> My engine was showing 70 psi at 1500 rpm, and it rose to 75 at 5500 rpm >> (redline). >> >> Back in the car with the remote oil filter set-up, with new, large >> diameter hoses fitted, it shows 45 psi cold, and 25-30 hot at 3,000 to >> 4,000 rpm. I am at a loss to understand how the remote filter set-up could >> possibly cause this drop in indicated pressure. The only other variable is >> my pressure gauge, which is nothing if not consistent. >> >> I will appreciate any wisdom or suggestions as to what is going on and how >> to correct this low pressure problem. >> >> Thanks for your help, >> >> Dave _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bucktrippel@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 12:21:18 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 15:21:39 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Dr. Mayf: You make a lot of good points. First, I will test my gauge as the next step. The remote filter does have lots of places where the various fittings and twists and turns can reduce flow and as you have explained, reduce pressure. But I wonder if other Tigers that have either the original or aftermarket remote filters fitted suffer the same pressure loss? We have asked owners to report in the past on their oil pressure, but it seems only those with 60 to 70 psi come forward with the info. perhaps there are lots of others like me who have Tigers with this level of oil pressure, but don't want to talk about it! It just seems unlikely that a stock gauge would be fitted with a gauge that reads all the way to 80 psi, with 50 in the center, if "normal" was 30 to 45 psi. As humans, we naturally like to see gauges with the needles "in the middle" of their range, or higher, but lower kind of gets the anxiety juices flowing, at least with me! I only have a little over 300 miles on the engine since re-installation, so the oil that was in the engine on the dyno is still in there. I plan to change it at 500 miles. It is 10-30 Castrol. In the engine before the re-build I tried oil viscosities up to GTX 20-50 with no change in the readings on the gauge. The dyno O.P. line was taken off at the same place as the stock line is attached. It was connected to their mechanical gauge by a flex hose, much larger in dia. than the stock line. The shop didn't use the remote line because it was easier to just screw a large filter onto the block. On the dyno in stripped configuration, the engine made 450 ft lb torque at 5,100 rpm and 317 hp at 5,500 rpm. Its a nice street engine. Thanks for your thoughtful reply Dr. MayF. Dave > Dave, several things come to mind. One is, of course, the in dash > pressure gauge. See if you can rig up a second gauge for a direct > comparison. But, there are other issues as well. If you have the stock > remote oil filter setup, then the adapter at the block receives the oil > and makes a hard right turn headed to the filter. It must pass the hose > to adapter fitting, the solid part of the hose to "rubber" hose connecion > twice and then flow though another hose fiting at the filter adaper and > then make another hard turn going into the filter proper. Ther filter to > engine comes straight out of the filter through a fitting, then through > the similar hose, with its losses, then into the block adapter. So, there > are a number of places where the flow can be reduced. reducing the flow > on the down stream side reduces the pressure. Also, did the dyno shop > drain the oil and you put in a different viscosity? If so, that will > change the flow and pressure also. Did you use the same oil brand and > weight? When they had the engine on the dyno, how big was the mechanical > gauge pressure line or was it screwed directly into the engine? The dinky > oil pressure line that runs to the dash gauge can cause some pressure > losses. It would have been interesting if the shop had used your remote > filter set up on the dyno. Why didn't they? > > just some things to think about... > > mayf _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 12:33:00 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: "Buck Trippel" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 15:25:34 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Buck: Never thought of that. My remote filter came from Summit Racing....can't remember the brand, but it was the best they had back five years ago. I'm pretty sure I never had a clogged filter. I am too anal about changing my oil and filter to have that happen. Thanks for your thoughts Buck. Dave FYI, the reason I asked about after market is that some after market oil filter brackets have a bypass channel that allows oil to still circulate in the event of a filter failure (clog). I speculate that this might cause a weird reading if you had also moved the sender's location. bt _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 12:48:38 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Dave Munroe'" , Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:43:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Dave First you need to check the oil pressure at the engine with another gage to compare readings with the gage on the dash. Until you know that you really don't know there is a pressure drop or a gage/ oil line problem. The dyno test with 70 to 75 psi seem high to me plus you never know when their gage was tested for standard. I thought the Ford oil pressure relief spring setting was about 45 psi. My oil pressure ranges from 45 to 55 psi. Jaeger gages I believe were almost universal in application so probably none of them were specifically made for any one manufacturer unless it was for a Works Team race car. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:22 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Dr. Mayf: You make a lot of good points. First, I will test my gauge as the next step. The remote filter does have lots of places where the various fittings and twists and turns can reduce flow and as you have explained, reduce pressure. But I wonder if other Tigers that have either the original or aftermarket remote filters fitted suffer the same pressure loss? We have asked owners to report in the past on their oil pressure, but it seems only those with 60 to 70 psi come forward with the info. perhaps there are lots of others like me who have Tigers with this level of oil pressure, but don't want to talk about it! It just seems unlikely that a stock gauge would be fitted with a gauge that reads all the way to 80 psi, with 50 in the center, if "normal" was 30 to 45 psi. As humans, we naturally like to see gauges with the needles "in the middle" of their range, or higher, but lower kind of gets the anxiety juices flowing, at least with me! I only have a little over 300 miles on the engine since re-installation, so the oil that was in the engine on the dyno is still in there. I plan to change it at 500 miles. It is 10-30 Castrol. In the engine before the re-build I tried oil viscosities up to GTX 20-50 with no change in the readings on the gauge. The dyno O.P. line was taken off at the same place as the stock line is attached. It was connected to their mechanical gauge by a flex hose, much larger in dia. than the stock line. The shop didn't use the remote line because it was easier to just screw a large filter onto the block. On the dyno in stripped configuration, the engine made 450 ft lb torque at 5,100 rpm and 317 hp at 5,500 rpm. Its a nice street engine. Thanks for your thoughtful reply Dr. MayF. Dave _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 14:48:40 2010 From: To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 13:43:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II I just got my Tiger back on the road after a 3 year hiatus. (ie I was too cheap to have a fender bender repaired and a repaint) I have a 260, it makes 180hp at the rear wheels. I have an aftermarket remote oil filter setup. I use a low profile block adapter that Dale A. sells The filter is mounted behind the headlight bucket in the drivers side fender well. The connection are with -8 AN fittings and SS braided hose. I have a stock oil pan Cold oil pressure is 45-50 psi Warm pressure is 35 psi. When I come to a stop, the oil pressure will drop to around 10 psi, to the point I can hear bad mechanical (ie knocking) noises. As soon as the deceleration is over, the pressure will rise back up to 20 psi or so and the bad noise stops. Any ideas on what I should do to fix this one? A separate anecdote that may shed light: A coworker has a 95 Mustang with the V6. It has over 100k on the clock. He was experiencing low oil pressure, when the engine would get good and warm. He tried higher viscosity oil. No change. He replaced the oil pump with a stock unit from the local parts house. Problem solved. Now has good oil pressure even when hot. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 15:21:45 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 17:18:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II It is very possible the oil pump has worn. Section B, pg 37 of the Shop manual is the section about the oil pump and tolerances. You might be able to clean up the pump you have or maybe a new pump is the way to go. I was able to sand the cover to the stated tolerance and I get at least 45 psi all the time. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of e.coiner@cox.net Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 4:43 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II I just got my Tiger back on the road after a 3 year hiatus. (ie I was too cheap to have a fender bender repaired and a repaint) I have a 260, it makes 180hp at the rear wheels. I have an aftermarket remote oil filter setup. I use a low profile block adapter that Dale A. sells The filter is mounted behind the headlight bucket in the drivers side fender well. The connection are with -8 AN fittings and SS braided hose. I have a stock oil pan Cold oil pressure is 45-50 psi Warm pressure is 35 psi. When I come to a stop, the oil pressure will drop to around 10 psi, to the point I can hear bad mechanical (ie knocking) noises. As soon as the deceleration is over, the pressure will rise back up to 20 psi or so and the bad noise stops. Any ideas on what I should do to fix this one? A separate anecdote that may shed light: A coworker has a 95 Mustang with the V6. It has over 100k on the clock. He was experiencing low oil pressure, when the engine would get good and warm. He tried higher viscosity oil. No change. He replaced the oil pump with a stock unit from the local parts house. Problem solved. Now has good oil pressure even when hot. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 16:33:43 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: rfraser@bluefrog.com, Tiger's Den , Erich Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:31:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II Ron and Eric, I found a great alternative that is actually built by Ford MotorSport. It was published on the TigersUnited.com site: http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/Dealer_Accessories/mp-FilterAdapter2.asp as co-edit by yours truly, Jim Boynton, and Mark L. (CoolVT) The Ford MotorSport Filter is a very good one. I would, as the article states, This Ford MotorSport aluminum SVO right angle filter adapter, M-6880-A50, is shown with the FRAM PH3600 in place. The Fram is smaller in diameter than the FL1A, which does fit as well. The design is different than the truck model, and has a large sealing surface on the mounting nut, which is not removed for filter changing. I bought it at a local Parts store for $50. Well, make that $100, as the first one bounced out of the trunk and I had to get another. While this may be difficult to obtain now, it is worth it. Notice that the edge car motor mount (on the left side of the car), was slightly rounded to prevent contact. There is a Ford Truck mount, which may be available, but isn't as nice. Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 17:37:41 2010 From: To: Tiger's Den , rfraser@bluefrog.com, Steve Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:38:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II That is a nice unit but it does not fit on my car with headers. ---- Steve Laifman wrote: > Ron and Eric, > > I found a great alternative that is actually built by Ford MotorSport. > It was published on the TigersUnited.com site: > > http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/Dealer_Accessories/mp-FilterAdapter2.asp > as co-edit by yours truly, Jim Boynton, and Mark L. (CoolVT) > > The Ford MotorSport Filter is a very good one. I would, as the article > states, > > This Ford MotorSport aluminum SVO right angle filter adapter, > M-6880-A50, is shown with the FRAM PH3600 in place. The Fram is smaller > in diameter than the FL1A, which does fit as well. The design is > different than the truck model, and has a large sealing surface on the > mounting nut, which is not removed for filter changing. I bought it at a > local Parts store for $50. Well, make that $100, as the first one > bounced out of the trunk and I had to get another. > > While this may be difficult to obtain now, it is worth it. Notice that > the edge car motor mount (on the left side of the car), was slightly > rounded to prevent contact. > > There is a Ford Truck mount, which may be available, but isn't as nice. > > Steve > > > > > Steve Laifman > > > Editor > > http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 17:46:19 2010 From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 19:42:19 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] gas tank sealer An earlier post named a gas tank sealer to use - should've written it down. :'( Can someone remember the name? (Cleaning the tank and crosspipe first with Purple Cleaner was recommended also.) thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 18:46:58 2010 From: Sandy Ganz To: Steve Laifman , rfraser@bluefrog.com, Tiger's Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 17:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II This is what I did to keep the same location but with a more modern synthetic filter from Canton-Mecca. I made the bracket that bolts to the front of head (the flat one) and the bracket around the filter is from Canton-Mecca. The line to the top of the filter will also work with a 180deg hose end to have a similar style to the top of the housing. The pics tell the story. These are with -10 lines as I recall. http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/TigerEngine.html For the block adapter I used one from here, it's thiner then the Canton external adapter one which I would use but might be too thick (you can get -12 lines on the canton). http://www.product-engr.com/Ford_oilAdapter.htm Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Laifman To: rfraser@bluefrog.com; Tiger's Den ; Erich Coiner Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 3:31:53 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II Ron and Eric, I found a great alternative that is actually built by Ford MotorSport. It was published on the TigersUnited.com site: http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/Dealer_Accessories/mp-FilterAdapter2.as p as co-edit by yours truly, Jim Boynton, and Mark L. (CoolVT) The Ford MotorSport Filter is a very good one. I would, as the article states, This Ford MotorSport aluminum SVO right angle filter adapter, M-6880-A50, is shown with the FRAM PH3600 in place. The Fram is smaller in diameter than the FL1A, which does fit as well. The design is different than the truck model, and has a large sealing surface on the mounting nut, which is not removed for filter changing. I bought it at a local Parts store for $50. Well, make that $100, as the first one bounced out of the trunk and I had to get another. While this may be difficult to obtain now, it is worth it. Notice that the edge car motor mount (on the left side of the car), was slightly rounded to prevent contact. There is a Ford Truck mount, which may be available, but isn't as nice. Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sganz@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 18:49:41 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: Dave Munroe , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 19:50:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure I haven't tried a modern oil pressure gauge on my engine, but it reads about 45-50 psi cold, 25 psi hot at idle . The pressure does come up as you rev the engine, but it rarely goes above 50 PSI on the gauge. This is a 120,000 mile 5.0 with worn bearings... Custom block adapter (similar internal orifices to the Canton and Dale's adapters), -10AN lines to a left-headlight mounted filter with a 90 degree tubing bend on each line. There is no flow through the gauge line, so there is no pressure drop across the gauge line. The only thing that is influenced by the size of the gauge line is how quickly the gauge might respond. Theo ________________________________________ From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe [dave@munroe.ca] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 12:21 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Dr. Mayf: You make a lot of good points. First, I will test my gauge as the next step. The remote filter does have lots of places where the various fittings and twists and turns can reduce flow and as you have explained, reduce pressure. But I wonder if other Tigers that have either the original or aftermarket remote filters fitted suffer the same pressure loss? We have asked owners to report in the past on their oil pressure, but it seems only those with 60 to 70 psi come forward with the info. perhaps there are lots of others like me who have Tigers with this level of oil pressure, but don't want to talk about it! It just seems unlikely that a stock gauge would be fitted with a gauge that reads all the way to 80 psi, with 50 in the center, if "normal" was 30 to 45 psi. As humans, we naturally like to see gauges with the needles "in the middle" of their range, or higher, but lower kind of gets the anxiety juices flowing, at least with me! I only have a little over 300 miles on the engine since re-installation, so the oil that was in the engine on the dyno is still in there. I plan to change it at 500 miles. It is 10-30 Castrol. In the engine before the re-build I tried oil viscosities up to GTX 20-50 with no change in the readings on the gauge. The dyno O.P. line was taken off at the same place as the stock line is attached. It was connected to their mechanical gauge by a flex hose, much larger in dia. than the stock line. The shop didn't use the remote line because it was easier to just screw a large filter onto the block. On the dyno in stripped configuration, the engine made 450 ft lb torque at 5,100 rpm and 317 hp at 5,500 rpm. Its a nice street engine. Thanks for your thoughtful reply Dr. MayF. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 19:02:29 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: , Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 21:56:29 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II This is very close to the oil pressure I am reading on my gauge. Scary situation. That is an interesting story about your friend's hi-mileage V6. But I also replaced my oil pump and the oil pressure is identical with my old pump. I suspect whatever my situation turns out to be, yours will be the same. Very Interesting. Dave From: Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Part II >I just got my Tiger back on the road after a 3 year hiatus. (ie I was too >cheap to have a fender bender repaired and a repaint) > > I have a 260, it makes 180hp at the rear wheels. > I have an aftermarket remote oil filter setup. I use a low profile block > adapter that Dale A. sells > The filter is mounted behind the headlight bucket in the drivers side > fender well. > The connection are with -8 AN fittings and SS braided hose. > I have a stock oil pan > > Cold oil pressure is 45-50 psi > Warm pressure is 35 psi. > > When I come to a stop, the oil pressure will drop to around 10 psi, to the > point I can hear bad mechanical (ie knocking) noises. As soon as the > deceleration is over, the pressure will rise back up to 20 psi or so and > the bad noise stops. > Any ideas on what I should do to fix this one? > > A separate anecdote that may shed light: A coworker has a 95 Mustang with > the V6. It has over 100k on the clock. He was experiencing low oil > pressure, when the engine would get good and warm. He tried higher > viscosity oil. No change. > He replaced the oil pump with a stock unit from the local parts house. > Problem solved. Now has good oil pressure even when hot. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 19:03:43 2010 From: "Teepen, Jere" To: Dave Munroe , Tom Parker Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 21:05:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Dave: You mention in the original message below that the hoses for the oil filter were changed to "large diameter" hoses. How large? I have no experience with altering the hose diameter in an automotive application, but I do know that a larger diameter water pipe system will reduce the overall pressure in the system. Years ago a friend of mine re-plumbed his house with 3/4" copper pipe versus 1/2" pipe. The result? Poor water pressure. Not sure this applies to oil.. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:53 AM To: Tom Parker Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Tom; Jerry: I haven't checked the gauge, which I should have done, and will, as soon as I can get hold of a good quality gauge. I plan to hook it up at the block fitting of the remote set-up. There are a couple of ports there that have allen key plugs in them. Thanks, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Parker To: Dave Munroe Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure From the earlier post today we can assume oil pressure on a 260 / 289 should be between @ 30 - 60 lbs. from the factory. The remote filter shouldn't reduce the pressure unless there's a leak. (He said, not really knowing...) So... the obvious question: have you checked your gauge? You implied the shop used their gauge and a transducer. Tom On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Dave Munroe wrote: Ok guys, the mystery continues. I have sought advice here about oil pressure and we have discussed this before. But now more intelligence has been gathered. My engine was built by a well meaning but as it turns out, inexperienced Brit mechanic in 2005. Amongst more serious problems, my engine's oil pressure also was below what I have come to believe is "normal" pressure for a fresh, quality re-build.(50 to 55 psi cold, 40 to 50 psi hot with 10-30W oil). I was tired of, and concerned with, the O.P. gauge showing the needle far to far to the left of center. I had my engine removed and "blue-printed" by a knowledgeable and highly regarded local shop. They found and corrected the other, more serious problems, and when reassembled, put it on their shop dyno. During the rebuild they installed a new, standard oil pump on the recommendation of many on this list who responded to my earlier inquiries, to replace the high volume pump that I had installed in the first re-build.They also installed a large filter directly on the block for the several pulls the engine went through on the dyno. They had hooked-up a mechanical oil pressure guage and a transducer that fed into their diagnostic computer. My engine was showing 70 psi at 1500 rpm, and it rose to 75 at 5500 rpm (redline). Back in the car with the remote oil filter set-up, with new, large diameter hoses fitted, it shows 45 psi cold, and 25-30 hot at 3,000 to 4,000 rpm. I am at a loss to understand how the remote filter set-up could possibly cause this drop in indicated pressure. The only other variable is my pressure gauge, which is nothing if not consistent. I will appreciate any wisdom or suggestions as to what is going on and how to correct this low pressure problem. Thanks for your help, Dave _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 19:05:37 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: "Clyde McLaughlin" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 22:05:58 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] oil pressure Thanks Clyde. That is what I'd like to see on my gauge. Perhaps, as many have suggested, I have a duff gauge. I know my rods and mains inserts are good, (indeed excellent) and I have had two new oil pumps inside my engine. I have seen 70 psi on the dyno gauge, so the only two variables are the remote oil filter and the gauge itself. When I get to the bottom of this, I will report back to this list. Cheers, Dave From: Clyde McLaughlin Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:44 PM Subject: oil pressure Hi Dave, I have both a remote filter and oil cooler, pressures 60-65 at cruising speed all the time, 30 at idle warm, engine is stock hipo 289 except for hydrolic cam, Clyde _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 20:22:38 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: "Smit, Theo" , Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:22:26 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Thanks Theo: You have another engine producing similar pressures to mine. However I never see 50, but I do see 25 at idle. Brand new crank, rods, inserts, and oil pump. Now just under 400 miles since refresh. I suspect these are more normal pressures than I had been led to believe. But there are many Tiger blocks out there producing some truly impressive pressure numbers. Thanks for your input. Dave From: "Smit, Theo" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:50 PM Subject: RE: [Tigers] Oil Pressure I haven't tried a modern oil pressure gauge on my engine, but it reads about 45-50 psi cold, 25 psi hot at idle . The pressure does come up as you rev the engine, but it rarely goes above 50 PSI on the gauge. This is a 120,000 mile 5.0 with worn bearings... Custom block adapter (similar internal orifices to the Canton and Dale's adapters), -10AN lines to a left-headlight mounted filter with a 90 degree tubing bend on each line. There is no flow through the gauge line, so there is no pressure drop across the gauge line. The only thing that is influenced by the size of the gauge line is how quickly the gauge might respond. Theo . _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 20:23:50 2010 From: BEAU2EVE@aol.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 22:24:11 EDT Subject: [Tigers] rack boots Where do I go to get a pair of decent fitting boots for the rack. Also I remember someone mentioned a guy who rebuilds the steering colums. Who and where is he Thanks in advance guys. Beau 9470951 the real deal _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 20:35:18 2010 From: "Kenda Sawhill" To: "Tiger list" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 19:35:58 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] New dash I agree with Tom, Randy is a great guy. I had a dash done a few years ago in fiddle-back Koa with optional glove box door. I hope the rest of the car some day comes out half as nice!!!! Mac Sawhill B9470860 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 20:38:33 2010 From: robin02@mindspring.com To: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com, tigers-bounces@autox.team.net, Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:39:04 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Por 15. ------Original Message------ From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com Sender: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Sent: Aug 2, 2010 7:42 PM An earlier post named a gas tank sealer to use - should've written it down. :'( Can someone remember the name? (Cleaning the tank and crosspipe first with Purple Cleaner was recommended also.) thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/robin02@mindspring.com Sent from my BlackBerry. smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 21:23:37 2010 From: "David H. Hall" To: robin02@mindspring.com, Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com, Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 20:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Red Kote is a highly rated product, and available at O'Reillys. David ________________________________ From: "robin02@mindspring.com" To: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com; tigers-bounces@autox.team.net; tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 10:39:04 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Por 15. ------Original Message------ From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com Sender: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Sent: Aug 2, 2010 7:42 PM An earlier post named a gas tank sealer to use - should've written it down. :'( Can someone remember the name? (Cleaning the tank and crosspipe first with Purple Cleaner was recommended also.) thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/robin02@mindspring.com Sent from my BlackBerry. smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dhhall@bellsouth.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 2 21:32:28 2010 From: "Teepen, Jere" To: "BEAU2EVE@aol.com" , "tigers@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:30:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] rack boots Rack boots are available from Sunbeam Specialties (www.rootes.com). Steering columns can be rebuilt by Doug Jennings (937) 252-3317 (Dayton, Ohio) -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BEAU2EVE@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:24 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] rack boots Where do I go to get a pair of decent fitting boots for the rack. Also I remember someone mentioned a guy who rebuilds the steering colums. Who and where is he Thanks in advance guys. Beau 9470951 the real deal _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 00:33:25 2010 From: "Buck Trippel" To: Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 23:33:43 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Monterey The 74 SCF Tiger is in the trailer waiting for the tow up to Monterey for two weekends of racing with John Morton handling the driving. Tom Sakai's yellow 65 and Chris Gruys blue Monster Tiger will join us this weekend for what's now called the Pre Reunion. We practice Saturday and Sunday mornings and race each afternoon. The following week, Steve Alcala will join us with his Sebring Alpine. We practice Thursday and Friday afternoon and then another qualifying practice on Sunday morning followed by the race Sunday afternoon. Hope to see many of you in our Paddock. As usual, feel free to stop by and hang out. Buck Trippel _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 02:51:54 2010 From: Sandy Ganz To: Buck Trippel , tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 01:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Monterey Will see you at the track! And tell Morton no tangeling with Mustangs this event ;) Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Buck Trippel To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 11:33:43 PM Subject: [Tigers] Monterey The 74 SCF Tiger is in the trailer waiting for the tow up to Monterey for two weekends of racing with John Morton handling the driving. Tom Sakai's yellow 65 and Chris Gruys blue Monster Tiger will join us this weekend for what's now called the Pre Reunion. We practice Saturday and Sunday mornings and race each afternoon. The following week, Steve Alcala will join us with his Sebring Alpine. We practice Thursday and Friday afternoon and then another qualifying practice on Sunday morning followed by the race Sunday afternoon. Hope to see many of you in our Paddock. As usual, feel free to stop by and hang out. Buck Trippel _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sganz@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 04:54:05 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: Kenda Sawhill , Tiger list Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 06:53:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] New dash Ha! I have the same problem! My dash (Randy made it) has the glove box door (which I decided to have Carroll Shelby autograph for me before it was clearcoated) is so nice that the rest of the car looks somehow worse! It's kind of like painting the kitchen, which makes the family room look worse, so you paint the family room, which makes the living room worse, so you paint the living room, and the powder room looks like crap, etc., etc., etc. My car got the new dash, then the dash pads, then the carpeting, then the seats, then the top, then the center console, then the interior panels, the top, then the top boot. I put new wheels and tires on, which made my paint look somehow needy. It's a survivor (original paint for the most part), so I'm loath to paint it (I know I will someday in the foreseeable future, though, especially since there are a few areas that are not original), but this will definitely make my chrome look less than acceptable, and we're off tot the races again! Oh well, it's become almost a profession (or obsession), so I had better get used to it! M On 8/2/10 10:35 PM, "Kenda Sawhill" wrote: > I agree with Tom, Randy is a great guy. I had a dash done a few years ago in > fiddle-back Koa with optional glove box door. I hope the rest of the car > some day comes out half as nice!!!! > > > > Mac Sawhill > > B9470860 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 07:21:02 2010 From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 09:20:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Thanks but POR-15 is for rust treatment and I'm pretty sure is not for gas tank 'interior' sealing: see: https://www.por15canada.com/can/ I was looking at Eastwood's product. It states: "Ethanol blended fuels may adversely affect this sealer. For best results, do not use with E10 - E85 fuels." I'd like to use something a little better. Paul wrote on 08/02/2010 11:22:26 PM: > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:39:04 +0000 > From: robin02@mindspring.com > Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > To: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com, tigers-bounces@autox.team.net, > tigers@autox.team.net > Message-ID: > <1445790657-1280803151-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim. > net-306023937-@bda141.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Por 15. > ------Original Message------ > From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com > Sender: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > Sent: Aug 2, 2010 7:42 PM > > An earlier post named a gas tank sealer to use - should've written it > down. :'( > Can someone remember the name? > (Cleaning the tank and crosspipe first with Purple Cleaner was recommended > also.) > > thanks, > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team. > net/mailman/options/tigers/robin02@mindspring.com > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry. smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 20:23:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: "David H. Hall" > Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > To: robin02@mindspring.com, Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com, > tigers-bounces@autox.team.net, tigers@autox.team.net > Message-ID: <296143.9659.qm@web180707.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Red Kote is a highly rated product, and available at O'Reillys. David > ________________________________ > From: "robin02@mindspring.com" > > To: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com; > tigers-bounces@autox.team.net; > tigers@autox.team.net > Sent: Mon, August 2, > 2010 10:39:04 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > > Por 15. > ------Original Message------ > From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com > Sender: > tigers-bounces@autox.team.net > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] gas > tank sealer > Sent: Aug 2, 2010 7:42 PM > > An earlier post named a gas tank sealer > to use - should've written it > down. :'( > Can someone remember the name? > (Cleaning the tank and crosspipe first with Purple Cleaner was recommended > also.) > > thanks, > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: > http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/robin02@mindspring.com > > > > Sent > from my BlackBerry. smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: > http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: > http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dhhall@bellsouth.net > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > End of Tigers Digest, Vol 4, Issue 359 > ************************************** _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 08:15:28 2010 From: To: tigers@autox.team.net, Buck Trippel Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 7:12:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Monterey My son Scott and I will be there. Driving the Tiger, man am I psyched! Erich ---- Buck Trippel wrote: > The 74 SCF Tiger is in the trailer waiting for the tow up to Monterey for two > weekends of racing with John Morton handling the driving. > > Tom Sakai's yellow 65 and Chris Gruys blue Monster Tiger will join us this > weekend for what's now called the Pre Reunion. We practice Saturday and Sunday > mornings and race each afternoon. > > The following week, Steve Alcala will join us with his Sebring Alpine. > > We practice Thursday and Friday afternoon and then another qualifying practice > on Sunday morning followed by the race Sunday afternoon. > > Hope to see many of you in our Paddock. As usual, feel free to stop by and > hang out. > > Buck Trippel > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/e.coiner@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 08:30:33 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:26:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Paul Definitely look for a sealer that is also good for ethanol blend fuels because you never know when you would have no choice but to pump some into your tank. I believe Red Kote, Bill Hirsh (sp?) and some others are ethanol rates but you have to look. POR 15 does have a tank sealer that is ethanol rated. https://www.por15canada.com/can/tanksealfuelpreserve.asp Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:21 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Thanks but POR-15 is for rust treatment and I'm pretty sure is not for gas tank 'interior' sealing: see: https://www.por15canada.com/can/ I was looking at Eastwood's product. It states: "Ethanol blended fuels may adversely affect this sealer. For best results, do not use with E10 - E85 fuels." I'd like to use something a little better. Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 08:33:36 2010 From: "Ross" To: , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 07:34:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Paul, POR15 products do include an excellent tank sealer. Follow this link: https://www.por15canada.com/can/tanksealfuelpreserve.asp Ross "Commodore Blues" Hulse Thanks but POR-15 is for rust treatment and I'm pretty sure is not for gas tank 'interior' sealing: see: https://www.por15canada.com/can/ I was looking at Eastwood's product. It states: "Ethanol blended fuels may adversely affect this sealer. For best results, do not use with E10 - E85 fuels." I'd like to use something a little better. Paul > POR 15. > > An earlier post named a gas tank sealer to use - should've written it > down. :'( > Can someone remember the name? > (Cleaning the tank and crosspipe first with Purple Cleaner was recommended > also.) > > thanks, > > Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 08:55:36 2010 From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com To: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:56:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Thanks Ron. I wonder why Eastwood would bother with that other product! Also, I guess that the sealer is only necessary when a tank is rusty (to prevent further damage). My tanks are not rusty at all so maybe I should not bother. I have been warned to clean out the OLD tank sealer as it will break down and clog the fuel lines with current gasoline. Paul " Ron Fraser" wrote on 08/03/2010 10:26:58 AM: > Paul > Definitely look for a sealer that is also good for ethanol blend > fuels because you never know when you would have no choice but to pump some > into your tank. > > I believe Red Kote, Bill Hirsh (sp?) and some others are ethanol rates but > you have to look. > > POR 15 does have a tank sealer that is ethanol rated. > https://www.por15canada.com/can/tanksealfuelpreserve.asp > > Ron Fraser > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:21 AM > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > > > Thanks but POR-15 is for rust treatment and I'm pretty sure is not for gas > tank 'interior' sealing: > see: https://www.por15canada.com/can/ > > I was looking at Eastwood's product. It states: > "Ethanol blended fuels may adversely affect this sealer. For best results, > do not use with E10 - E85 fuels." > > I'd like to use something a little better. > > Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 09:22:03 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 08:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] tank sealer I used one a few years from JC Whitney....dont use it...car is still in garage unfinished, never had gas in it...but the sealers is all peeling off....I either have to redo it or install another set of tanks (I hate pulling those out) another trick is to wad up some window screen and install into both ends of the crossover tube so if some coating comes loose it does not hit the small gas line tube and stop you on the road...mike _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 09:22:35 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:19:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Paul My Eastwood catalog does not specifically say ethanol rated; is that listed online? They should be selling an ethanol rated sealer. The biggest problem is the seam weld of the 2 tank halves; that is were a leak can start. I sealed my tanks almost 40 years ago and I see no problem with the sealer. If you have OLD sealer and it looks and feels gummy or you can roll it off with your finger then yes that sealer needs to be removed. I also put a fuel filter in before the pump just in case there is a problem. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com [mailto:Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:56 AM To: rfraser@bluefrog.com Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Thanks Ron. I wonder why Eastwood would bother with that other product! Also, I guess that the sealer is only necessary when a tank is rusty (to prevent further damage). My tanks are not rusty at all so maybe I should not bother. I have been warned to clean out the OLD tank sealer as it will break down and clog the fuel lines with current gasoline. Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 09:31:58 2010 From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com To: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:29:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Here's the Eastwood link with the ethanol note: http://www.eastwood.com/ew-gas-tank-sealer-one-pint-16-oz.html I thought all tanks had sealer in them? Someone in the group claimed "yes", in the past. Paul " Ron Fraser" wrote on 08/03/2010 11:19:54 AM: > Paul > My Eastwood catalog does not specifically say ethanol rated; is > that listed online? They should be selling an ethanol rated sealer. > > The biggest problem is the seam weld of the 2 tank halves; that is > were a leak can start. > > I sealed my tanks almost 40 years ago and I see no problem with the sealer. > > If you have OLD sealer and it looks and feels gummy or you can roll > it off with your finger then yes that sealer needs to be removed. > > I also put a fuel filter in before the pump just in case there is a problem. > > Ron Fraser > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com [mailto:Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:56 AM > To: rfraser@bluefrog.com > Cc: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > > Thanks Ron. I wonder why Eastwood would bother with that other product! > > Also, I guess that the sealer is only necessary when a tank is rusty > (to prevent further > damage). My tanks are not rusty at all so maybe I should not bother. > > I have been warned to clean out the OLD tank sealer as it will break > down and clog > the fuel lines with current gasoline. > > Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 10:15:46 2010 From: kevin beck To: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:13:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer I removed my tanks last fall and bought a sealer from KBS, but haven;t sealed the tanks yet. Kevin On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:29 AM, wrote: > Here's the Eastwood link with the ethanol note: > http://www.eastwood.com/ew-gas-tank-sealer-one-pint-16-oz.html > > I thought all tanks had sealer in them? Someone in the group claimed > "yes", in the past. > > Paul > > " Ron Fraser" wrote on 08/03/2010 11:19:54 AM: > > > Paul > > My Eastwood catalog does not specifically say ethanol rated; is > > that listed online? They should be selling an ethanol rated sealer. > > > > The biggest problem is the seam weld of the 2 tank halves; that is > > were a leak can start. > > > > I sealed my tanks almost 40 years ago and I see no problem with the > sealer. > > > > If you have OLD sealer and it looks and feels gummy or you can roll > > it off with your finger then yes that sealer needs to be removed. > > > > I also put a fuel filter in before the pump just in case there is a > problem. > > > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com [mailto:Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:56 AM > > To: rfraser@bluefrog.com > > Cc: tigers@autox.team.net > > Subject: RE: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > > > > > Thanks Ron. I wonder why Eastwood would bother with that other product! > > > > > Also, I guess that the sealer is only necessary when a tank is rusty > > (to prevent further > > damage). My tanks are not rusty at all so maybe I should not bother. > > > > I have been warned to clean out the OLD tank sealer as it will break > > down and clog > > the fuel lines with current gasoline. > > > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/kevinteresa.beck74@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 11:08:17 2010 From: "rande" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:08:24 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] eBay and restoring your car HI, I'm currently going through this with a lister, but some of the info is fine for the list as a whole. I know most of you are doing this already. You don't own a copy of that bargain book BON, and you don't live near the chairman of a concours committee, and you can't make it to the annual Uniteds? Cheer up, all is not lost. Aside from this list, which is sort of the CAT Shop Notes gone viral, some excellent photos appear on eBay, parts and full assortment of photos of complete cars. I know, some of the descriptions are a little off, like the 'Alpine Only' overdrive relay that really looked a Tiger Mark II alternator relay. If you can't download the photo, can you print it and keep it in a binder? If something looks a little dodgy, check it out with the list or someone whose knowledge you trust, And check under both Tiger and Alpine, the US site and the UK site. RB _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 11:31:12 2010 From: Tom Parker To: rande@thecia.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:27:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] eBay and restoring your car "Put it in a book"... (Rande) The book grows daily. Old pictures, new pictures, tech notes, product brochures. My life is a car (not my mother....) and my wife objects, but that's another story. The most helpful items I've found: C.A.T. Shop Notes. Why re-invent the wheel? Sunbeam Specialties Catalog. Rick's really great. If he doesn't have it you may be in for a long search. Classic Sunbeam online for some of the things Rick doesn't have. A CD of "all" the Rootes Alpine / Tiger manuals. This forum. The knowledge dispensed here is invaluable. My "guru" in New Hampshire who answers all the dumb questions I come up with, And E-Bay. Buried treasure... sometimes. Ohan Karlikian in Vancouver uses this, so I'll steal it from him with credit: "Keep The ' Beam Alive." Tom On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 1:08 PM, rande wrote: > HI, > > > > I'm currently going through this with a lister, but some of the info is > fine > for the list as a whole. I know most of you are doing this already. > > You don't own a copy of that bargain book BON, and you don't live near the > chairman > of a concours committee, and you can't make it to the annual Uniteds? Cheer > up, all is not lost. > > Aside from this list, which is sort of the CAT Shop Notes gone viral, some > excellent > photos appear on eBay, parts and full assortment of photos of complete > cars. > I know, some of the descriptions are a little off, like the 'Alpine Only' > overdrive > relay that really looked a Tiger Mark II alternator relay. > > If you can't download the photo, can you print it and keep it in a binder? > If > something looks a little dodgy, check it out with the list or someone whose > knowledge you trust, And check under both Tiger and Alpine, the US site and > the UK site. > > RB > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 11:39:28 2010 From: Joel Martin To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Radiator Overflow Tube What is the correct length, diameter and angle of the radiator overflow tube coming out the drivers' side top portion of the radiator for a 1966 MK1A? I will need to add this overflow tube when the radiator is repaired. Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 11:50:42 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com, rfraser@bluefrog.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:50:57 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer Paul, I don't think the problem with Tiger tanks is rust. It's normally the old sealant breaking loose and plugging the lines. You can remove the loose sealant, but it will continue to fall off and next year you'll have some more. When the tanks are coated professionally they either remove the old sealant or seal over it (not sure which). Mark In a message dated 8/3/2010 10:56:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com writes: Thanks Ron. I wonder why Eastwood would bother with that other product! Also, I guess that the sealer is only necessary when a tank is rusty (to prevent further damage). My tanks are not rusty at all so maybe I should not bother. I have been warned to clean out the OLD tank sealer as it will break down and clog the fuel lines with current gasoline. Paul " Ron Fraser" wrote on 08/03/2010 10:26:58 AM: > Paul > Definitely look for a sealer that is also good for ethanol blend > fuels because you never know when you would have no choice but to pump some > into your tank. > > I believe Red Kote, Bill Hirsh (sp?) and some others are ethanol rates but > you have to look. > > POR 15 does have a tank sealer that is ethanol rated. > https://www.por15canada.com/can/tanksealfuelpreserve.asp > > Ron Fraser > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Paul.Tonizzo@sybase.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:21 AM > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] gas tank sealer > > > Thanks but POR-15 is for rust treatment and I'm pretty sure is not for gas > tank 'interior' sealing: > see: https://www.por15canada.com/can/ > > I was looking at Eastwood's product. It states: > "Ethanol blended fuels may adversely affect this sealer. For best results, > do not use with E10 - E85 fuels." > > I'd like to use something a little better. > > Paul _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 12:24:43 2010 From: larryall@pacbell.net To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] MK II alternator Bracket Does anyone have a clear picture of a MK II alternator bracket or know where I can view? Also, is the MK II bracket made of steel or aluminum? TIA _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 12:30:51 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Beamclub Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fw: Re: gas tank sealer Th Harley shops also carry sealer for HD tanks as they have had the same problems as described in previous post. Cheers to all or those so deserving. TtT _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 12:31:06 2010 From: Allan Ballard To: "tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:28:49 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool The cockpit of my Tiger is quite warm. It was very hot as "found" but a new shifter boot and a patch to a small hole in the floor helped tremendously. Also I've filled two firewall holes with grommets, another big help. But still it's warmer than my Alpine, a lot warmer... Some of the heat must penetrate old grommets that have wires running through them so that the grommets are not solid. That will have to stay "as is" for a while--although spray-foam insulation might help the areas where those grommets are split to accomodate the item passing through. Any ideas where is the heat coming from... and how to stop it? Maybe it's coming through the floor! The heat might be a big plus in the cold months, but in a Georgia August.... Allan Ballard Atlanta, GA _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 12:50:13 2010 From: "Robin Young" To: "'Allan Ballard'" , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:50:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool Allen, Sometimes the butterfly valve on the heater control gets bent or for some reason does not seal well. After a while the heater core will get hot even with the water valve closed and it will "draft" heat into the cabin. I removed my heater box, cleaned and painted it. Then waxed the butterfly valve well and applied silicone to the housing where it closes. When the butterfly was closed to the silicon, a tight seal gasket was formed. When the silicone was set it trimmed up easily and really holds back the draft through the heater box upon reinstallation. I hope this helps. Congratulations on finding a car. RObin -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allan Ballard Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:29 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger Subject: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool The cockpit of my Tiger is quite warm. It was very hot as "found" but a new shifter boot and a patch to a small hole in the floor helped tremendously. Also I've filled two firewall holes with grommets, another big help. But still it's warmer than my Alpine, a lot warmer... Some of the heat must penetrate old grommets that have wires running through them so that the grommets are not solid. That will have to stay "as is" for a while--although spray-foam insulation might help the areas where those grommets are split to accomodate the item passing through. Any ideas where is the heat coming from... and how to stop it? Maybe it's coming through the floor! The heat might be a big plus in the cold months, but in a Georgia August.... Allan Ballard Atlanta, GA _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/robin02@mindspring.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 13:33:38 2010 From: mcdangerous@verizon.net To: larryall@pacbell.net Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:34:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] MK II alternator Bracket I have an original Mk2 bracket that I have not yet mounted. I decided to just use the generator for now because I did not want to make eventual troubleshooting more complicated during my engine installation. I could take a picture if you like. The bracket feel like steel, based on its weight. M Aug 3, 2010 01:25:44 PM, larryall@pacbell.net wrote: Does anyone have a clear picture of a MK II alternator bracket or know where I can view? Also, is the MK II bracket made of steel or aluminum? TIA _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 13:34:40 2010 From: Joel Martin To: Tiger List Serve Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? The TRW numbers are 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 13:37:17 2010 From: mcdangerous@verizon.net To: Robin02@mindspring.com Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:37:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool ...another benefit to sealing the firewall with new grommets is that fewer engine odors seep into the cockpit. Doug Jennings also suggested to me that I seal up the vents just in front of the windshield because heat and odors make their way in from there too. M Aug 3, 2010 01:50:55 PM, Robin02@mindspring.com wrote: Allen, Sometimes the butterfly valve on the heater control gets bent or for some reason does not seal well. After a while the heater core will get hot even with the water valve closed and it will "draft" heat into the cabin. I removed my heater box, cleaned and painted it. Then waxed the butterfly valve well and applied silicone to the housing where it closes. When the butterfly was closed to the silicon, a tight seal gasket was formed. When the silicone was set it trimmed up easily and really holds back the draft through the heater box upon reinstallation. I hope this helps. Congratulations on finding a car. RObin -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allan Ballard Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:29 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger Subject: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool The cockpit of my Tiger is quite warm. It was very hot as "found" but a new shifter boot and a patch to a small hole in the floor helped tremendously. Also I've filled two firewall holes with grommets, another big help. But still it's warmer than my Alpine, a lot warmer... Some of the heat must penetrate old grommets that have wires running through them so that the grommets are not solid. That will have to stay "as is" for a while--although spray-foam insulation might help the areas where those grommets are split to accomodate the item passing through. Any ideas where is the heat coming from... and how to stop it? Maybe it's coming through the floor! The heat might be a big plus in the cold months, but in a Georgia August.... Allan Ballard Atlanta, GA _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/robin02@mindspring.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 13:37:27 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: jmartiniii@yahoo.com, Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:37:57 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source I got some through a Mustang supplier. In a message dated 8/3/2010 3:35:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jmartiniii@yahoo.com writes: Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? The TRW numbers are 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 13:50:44 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:51:24 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Dyno numbers Listers: I owe you an apology. In an earlier post I quoted an incorrect torque rating for my engine. I said: "On the dyno in stripped configuration, the engine made 450 ft lb torque at 5,100 rpm and 317 hp at 5,500 rpm. Its a nice street engine." The correct torque rating is 349.1 ft lbs. Must have been a senior's moment....the hp quoted was, however, correct at 317.3 hp. Thanks to DW at spmdr@juno.com who picked up on the inconsistency of the torque to hp claim and pointed this out to me. My most humble apologies for this statement. Dave Who none-the-less still has a nice street engine! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 14:03:30 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mcdangerous@verizon.net, Robin02@mindspring.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:00:42 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool To really solve your problem you will have to take out the carpets and install an aluminum faced insulation on the firewall, floor and as much of the transmission tunnel as possible. In doing that I would guess that the temperature around my feet dropped by 20-30 degrees. I used the cheap stuff from JC Whitney (20 yrs ago) and it worked just fine. I believe some of the more expensive products come with one sticky side. I had to spray on an adhesive. Mark L In a message dated 8/3/2010 3:38:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mcdangerous@verizon.net writes: ...another benefit to sealing the firewall with new grommets is that fewer engine odors seep into the cockpit. Doug Jennings also suggested to me that I seal up the vents just in front of the windshield because heat and odors make their way in from there too. M Aug 3, 2010 01:50:55 PM, Robin02@mindspring.com wrote: Allen, Sometimes the butterfly valve on the heater control gets bent or for some reason does not seal well. After a while the heater core will get hot even with the water valve closed and it will "draft" heat into the cabin. I removed my heater box, cleaned and painted it. Then waxed the butterfly valve well and applied silicone to the housing where it closes. When the butterfly was closed to the silicon, a tight seal gasket was formed. When the silicone was set it trimmed up easily and really holds back the draft through the heater box upon reinstallation. I hope this helps. Congratulations on finding a car. RObin -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allan Ballard Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:29 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger Subject: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool The cockpit of my Tiger is quite warm. It was very hot as "found" but a new shifter boot and a patch to a small hole in the floor helped tremendously. Also I've filled two firewall holes with grommets, another big help. But still it's warmer than my Alpine, a lot warmer... Some of the heat must penetrate old grommets that have wires running through them so that the grommets are not solid. That will have to stay "as is" for a while--although spray-foam insulation might help the areas where those grommets are split to accomodate the item passing through. Any ideas where is the heat coming from... and how to stop it? Maybe it's coming through the floor! The heat might be a big plus in the cold months, but in a Georgia August.... Allan Ballard Atlanta, GA _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/robin02@mindspring.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 14:34:15 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: larryall@pacbell.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] MK II alternator Bracket The Alt. bracket I have was sold thru CAT if memory serves. I had it for years prior to removing the generator and going to a one wire alternator. Its made of aluminum. A peson could go to a salvage yard and use a bracket from a junk car and put the alt. on either side he wanted- depending on what else you may be considering. Cheers, TtT _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 14:35:01 2010 From: Tom Parker To: Allan Ballard Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:35:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool Allan, Through the tunnel, through the floor. Through the shifter hole. throuch every orifice. Rick sells plugs; so does British wiring. They're not expensive. Classic Motorsports used Thermo-Tec's "Cool-it"noise suppression / heat barrier; it's available from Summit. When I spoke to Tim at last year's Mitty he swore by it. so, today as luck would have it, I ordered some. If it's as good as he claimed I expect to be as cool as an old man can be. Tom On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: > The cockpit of my Tiger is quite warm. > > It was very hot as "found" but a new shifter boot and a patch to a small > hole > in > the floor helped tremendously. > > Also I've filled two firewall holes with grommets, another big help. > > But still it's warmer than my Alpine, a lot warmer... > > Some of the heat must penetrate old grommets that have wires running > through > them so that the grommets are not solid. > > That will have to stay "as is" for a while--although spray-foam insulation > might help the areas where those grommets are split to > accomodate the item passing through. > > Any ideas where is the heat coming from... and how to stop it? > > Maybe it's coming through the floor! > > The heat might be a big plus in the cold months, but in a Georgia > August.... > > Allan Ballard > Atlanta, GA > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 14:39:10 2010 From: Tom Parker To: Joel Martin Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:39:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. Tom On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: > Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? > > The TRW numbers are > 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. > Thanks > martjr > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 14:39:43 2010 From: "John Stithem" To: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:40:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Tiger? I would like to hear from anyone that has tried installing a wind diverter behind the seats in a Tiger to reduce the wind turbulence win the car when the top is off. It seems to help with the smaller roadsters like the Z4, Miata. Anyone ever tried it in a Tiger?---what were the results? Seems like it would be pretty easy to do, putting it between the seats and the roll-bar---but---why try to build a car with square wheels if we know they don't work? John _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 14:49:19 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: tkparker1941@gmail.com, jmartiniii@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:49:26 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source It's easy to find them, but harder to find some that are decent. Most are coming from China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. One set was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another set the mounting bolts were off by 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness by 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them up. Mark In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. Tom On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: > Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? > > The TRW numbers are > 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. > Thanks > martjr > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 14:50:57 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mai65tai@sonic.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:51:21 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a John, I saw one advertised somewhere for MG's. Maybe someone in that group can tell how well they work and if they can be converted for use on a Tiger. I've wondered the same thing for a few years and never acted on it. Mark In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mai65tai@sonic.net writes: I would like to hear from anyone that has tried installing a wind diverter behind the seats in a Tiger to reduce the wind turbulence win the car when the top is off. It seems to help with the smaller roadsters like the Z4, Miata. Anyone ever tried it in a Tiger?---what were the results? Seems like it would be pretty easy to do, putting it between the seats and the roll-bar---but---why try to build a car with square wheels if we know they don't work? John _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 15:04:08 2010 From: "Jim" To: , , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:00:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Hi John There are several MGBs, a TR7 and a few others in our English car club that have installed them, most have been homemade out of plexi and brackets fabricated. They ALL swear by them... I'm thinking of putting it on my to-do list for next winter. I think it would be easy to fasten it to the roll bar but all that I have seen have been installed vertical and no roll bar on the car. Jim Gislason B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT@aol.com Sent: August 3, 2010 1:51 PM To: mai65tai@sonic.net; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Tiger? John, I saw one advertised somewhere for MG's. Maybe someone in that group can tell how well they work and if they can be converted for use on a Tiger. I've wondered the same thing for a few years and never acted on it. Mark In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mai65tai@sonic.net writes: I would like to hear from anyone that has tried installing a wind diverter behind the seats in a Tiger to reduce the wind turbulence win the car when the top is off. It seems to help with the smaller roadsters like the Z4, Miata. Anyone ever tried it in a Tiger?---what were the results? Seems like it would be pretty easy to do, putting it between the seats and the roll-bar---but---why try to build a car with square wheels if we know they don't work? John _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 15:26:01 2010 From: Tom Parker To: CoolVT@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:26:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source Mark, The ones I bought from NAPA were labeled 82220 & 82221 The implication (Not the same as "fact") was they were from the same supplier TRW uses. As to the accuracy, they fit, the thickness seemed to be the same, not that I knew enough to look closely. No guarantees from me!, just my personal experience. Tom On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, wrote: > * > > > It's easy to find them, but harder to find some that are decent. Most are > coming from China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. One set > was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another set the mounting bolts were off > by 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness by > 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them up. > Mark > * > > In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: > > NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. > > Tom > > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: > > > Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? > > > > The TRW numbers are > > 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. > > Thanks > > martjr > > _______________________________________________ > > Tigers@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 15:35:50 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: tkparker1941@gmail.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:33:14 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source Mine from NAPA were labeled China. I'm pretty sure the ones I ordered from the Mustang dealer were TRW's and they were from China. I think the only good ones are cross bolted. They sell for $100+. Anything in the $20-$50 range are going to be China made and not cross bolted. I drilled an bolted mine. M In a message dated 8/3/2010 5:26:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: Mark, The ones I bought from NAPA were labeled 82220 & 82221 The implication (Not the same as "fact") was they were from the same supplier TRW uses. As to the accuracy, they fit, the thickness seemed to be the same, not that I knew enough to look closely. No guarantees from me!, just my personal experience. Tom On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, wrote: > * > > > It's easy to find them, but harder to find some that are decent. Most are > coming from China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. One set > was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another set the mounting bolts were off > by 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness by > 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them up. > Mark > * > > In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: > > NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. > > Tom > > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: > > > Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? > > > > The TRW numbers are > > 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. > > Thanks > > martjr > > _______________________________________________ > > Tigers@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 15:36:53 2010 From: dave@munroe.ca To: "Jim" , tigers-bounces@autox.team.net, CoolVT@aol.com, Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 21:37:32 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in I agree with Jim. I have a Moss Motors "screen" style diverter on my '74 MGB and it is really effective. I no longer need a budget for lost ball caps blowing off my head. But the Tiger is much less windy than my MGB, and don't feel the same need to install a wind blocker. FWIW, Dave Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: "Jim" Sender: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:00:17 To: ; ; Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Tiger? Hi John There are several MGBs, a TR7 and a few others in our English car club that have installed them, most have been homemade out of plexi and brackets fabricated. They ALL swear by them... I'm thinking of putting it on my to-do list for next winter. I think it would be easy to fasten it to the roll bar but all that I have seen have been installed vertical and no roll bar on the car. Jim Gislason B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT@aol.com Sent: August 3, 2010 1:51 PM To: mai65tai@sonic.net; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Tiger? John, I saw one advertised somewhere for MG's. Maybe someone in that group can tell how well they work and if they can be converted for use on a Tiger. I've wondered the same thing for a few years and never acted on it. Mark In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mai65tai@sonic.net writes: I would like to hear from anyone that has tried installing a wind diverter behind the seats in a Tiger to reduce the wind turbulence win the car when the top is off. It seems to help with the smaller roadsters like the Z4, Miata. Anyone ever tried it in a Tiger?---what were the results? Seems like it would be pretty easy to do, putting it between the seats and the roll-bar---but---why try to build a car with square wheels if we know they don't work? John _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dave@munroe.ca _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 15:48:29 2010 From: TERRY MORRIS To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:42:51 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Sold my Tiger today. Sold my Tiger (B382002178) today, sad to see her go but looking forward to a new project. I gave the new owner the address for this list, told him how helpful you guys are even if your a lurker. Thanks for all the good advise from the list over the years. Thanks Terry Morris _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 15:48:38 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: "CoolVT@aol.com" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:46:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source I use the ones from rick. is there a problem with them? On Tuesday, August 3, 2010, wrote: > Mine from NAPA were labeled China. I'm pretty sure the ones I ordered from > the Mustang dealer were TRW's and they were from China. I think the only > good ones are cross bolted. They sell for $100+. Anything in the $20-$50 > range are going to be China made and not cross bolted. I drilled an bolted > mine. > M > > > In a message dated 8/3/2010 5:26:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: > > Mark, > > The ones I bought from NAPA were labeled 82220 & 82221 The implication (Not > the same as "fact") was they were from the same supplier TRW uses. As to > the > accuracy, they fit, the thickness seemed to be the same, not that I knew > enough to look closely. No guarantees from me!, just my personal > experience. > > > Tom > > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, wrote: > >> * >> >> >> It's easy to find them, but harder to find some that are decent. Most are >> coming from China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. One > set >> was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another set the mounting bolts were > off >> by 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness by >> 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them up. >> Mark >> * >> >> In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: >> >> NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. >> >> Tom >> >> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: >> >> > Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? >> > >> > The TRW numbers are >> > 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. >> > Thanks >> > martjr >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Tigers@autox.team.net >> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> > Unsubscribe/Manage: >> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 16:03:25 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: , "CoolVT@aol.com" Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 18:00:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source Are you guys talking about the mounts that bolt to the engine, or the brackets that mount to the body? Thanks. M On 8/3/10 5:46 PM, "Owain Lloyd" wrote: > I use the ones from rick. is there a problem with them? > > On Tuesday, August 3, 2010, wrote: >> Mine from NAPA were labeled China. I'm pretty sure the ones I ordered from >> the Mustang dealer were TRW's and they were from China. I think the only >> good ones are cross bolted. They sell for $100+. Anything in the $20-$50 >> range are going to be China made and not cross bolted. I drilled an > bolted >> mine. >> M >> >> >> In a message dated 8/3/2010 5:26:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: >> >> Mark, >> >> The ones I bought from NAPA were labeled 82220 & 82221 The implication > (Not >> the same as "fact") was they were from the same supplier TRW uses. As to >> the >> accuracy, they fit, the thickness seemed to be the same, not that I knew >> enough to look closely. No guarantees from me!, just my personal >> experience. >> >> >> Tom >> >> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, wrote: >> >>> * >>> >>> >>> It's easy to find them, but harder to find some that are decent. Most are >>> coming from China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. One >> set >>> was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another set the mounting bolts were >> off >>> by 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness by >>> 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them up. >>> Mark >>> * >>> >>> In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: >>> >>> NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: >>> >>>> Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? >>>> >>>> The TRW numbers are >>>> 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. >>>> Thanks >>>> martjr >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tigers@autox.team.net >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tigers@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 16:03:35 2010 From: arado7@sbcglobal.net To: CoolVT@aol.com, mai65tai@sonic.net, tigers@autox.team.net, Jim Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a I use one on my Crossfire roadster and it works. I Gary B9472283 --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Jim wrote: From: Jim Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Tiger? To: CoolVT@aol.com, mai65tai@sonic.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 9:00 PM Hi John There are several MGBs, a TR7 and a few others in our English car club that have installed them, most have been homemade out of plexi and brackets fabricated. They ALL swear by them... I'm thinking of putting it on my to-do list for next winter. I think it would be easy to fasten it to the roll bar but all that I have seen have been installed vertical and no roll bar on the car. Jim Gislason B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT@aol.com Sent: August 3, 2010 1:51 PM To: mai65tai@sonic.net; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Tiger? John, I saw one advertised somewhere for MG's. Maybe someone in that group can tell how well they work and if they can be converted for use on a Tiger. I've wondered the same thing for a few years and never acted on it. Mark In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mai65tai@sonic.net writes: I would like to hear from anyone that has tried installing a wind diverter behind the seats in a Tiger to reduce the wind turbulence win the car when the top is off. It seems to help with the smaller roadsters like the Z4, Miata. Anyone ever tried it in a Tiger?---what were the results? Seems like it would be pretty easy to do, putting it between the seats and the roll-bar---but---why try to build a car with square wheels if we know they don't work? John _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/arado7@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 16:05:45 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mcdangerous@verizon.net, owain.lloyd@gmail.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:05:49 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source To the engine. In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mcdangerous@verizon.net writes: Are you guys talking about the mounts that bolt to the engine, or the brackets that mount to the body? Thanks. M On 8/3/10 5:46 PM, "Owain Lloyd" wrote: > I use the ones from rick. is there a problem with them? > > On Tuesday, August 3, 2010, wrote: >> Mine from NAPA were labeled China. I'm pretty sure the ones I ordered from >> the Mustang dealer were TRW's and they were from China. I think the only >> good ones are cross bolted. They sell for $100+. Anything in the $20-$50 >> range are going to be China made and not cross bolted. I drilled an > bolted >> mine. >> M >> >> >> In a message dated 8/3/2010 5:26:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: >> >> Mark, >> >> The ones I bought from NAPA were labeled 82220 & 82221 The implication > (Not >> the same as "fact") was they were from the same supplier TRW uses. As to >> the >> accuracy, they fit, the thickness seemed to be the same, not that I knew >> enough to look closely. No guarantees from me!, just my personal >> experience. >> >> >> Tom >> >> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, wrote: >> >>> * >>> >>> >>> It's easy to find them, but harder to find some that are decent. Most are >>> coming from China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. One >> set >>> was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another set the mounting bolts were >> off >>> by 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness by >>> 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them up. >>> Mark >>> * >>> >>> In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: >>> >>> NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: >>> >>>> Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? >>>> >>>> The TRW numbers are >>>> 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. >>>> Thanks >>>> martjr >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tigers@autox.team.net >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tigers@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 16:18:25 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: "CoolVT@aol.com" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 23:15:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source yes the rubber mounts. the brackets are to find and at least one is tiger specific I think. someone made nice non stock looking repros of them recently. On Tuesday, August 3, 2010, wrote: > > > > > > To the engine. > > > In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:03:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mcdangerous@verizon.net writes: > Are you > guys talking about the mounts that bolt to the engine, or the > brackets that > mount to the body? Thanks. M > > > On 8/3/10 5:46 PM, "Owain > Lloyd" wrote: > >> I use the ones from > rick. is there a problem with them? >> >> On Tuesday, August > 3, 2010, wrote: >>> Mine from NAPA were > labeled China. I'm pretty sure the ones I ordered from >>> the > Mustang dealer were TRW's and they were from China. I think the > only >>> good ones are cross bolted. They sell for $100+. > Anything in the $20-$50 >>> range are going to be China made and > not cross bolted. I drilled an >> bolted >>> > mine. >>> M >>> >>> >>> In a message dated > 8/3/2010 5:26:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> > tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: >>> >>> Mark, >>> > >>> The ones I bought from NAPA were labeled 82220 & 82221 > The implication >> (Not >>> the same as "fact") was they were > from the same supplier TRW uses. As to >>> the >>> > accuracy, they fit, the thickness seemed to be the same, not that I > knew >>> enough to look closely. No guarantees from me!, just my > personal >>> experience. >>> >>> >>> > Tom >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, > wrote: >>> >>>> * >>>> > >>>> >>>> It's easy to find them, but harder to > find some that are decent. Most are >>>> coming from > China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. > One >>> set >>>> was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another > set the mounting bolts were >>> off >>>> by > 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness > by >>>> 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them > up. >>>> Mark >>>> * >>>> > >>>> In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern > Daylight Time, >>>> tkparker1941@gmail.com > writes: >>>> >>>> NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. > Also NPD. >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Does > anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? >>>>> > >>>>> The TRW numbers are >>>>> 82220 for > the left and 82221 for the right. >>>>> > Thanks >>>>> martjr >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Tigers@autox.team.net >>>>> Donate: > http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> Archive: > http://www.team.net/archive >>>>> Forums: > http://www.team.net/forums >>>>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: >>>>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Tigers@autox.team.net >>>> Donate: > http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: > http://www.team.net/archive >>>> Forums: > _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 18:03:35 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 01:00:42 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] 260 pistons on uk ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220647459895 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 18:35:11 2010 From: Allan Ballard To: Tom Parker Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 20:33:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor Mount Source 1964 Falcon 260 mounts work. On Aug 3, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Tom Parker wrote: > Mark, > > The ones I bought from NAPA were labeled 82220 & 82221 The implication (Not > the same as "fact") was they were from the same supplier TRW uses. As to the > accuracy, they fit, the thickness seemed to be the same, not that I knew > enough to look closely. No guarantees from me!, just my personal experience. > > > Tom > > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:49 PM, wrote: > >> * >> >> >> It's easy to find them, but harder to find some that are decent. Most are >> coming from China. I tried a few sets including some from NAPA. One set >> was off by 1/2" in thickness. With another set the mounting bolts were off >> by 3/4'. I ended up with a set that was close....off in thickness by >> 1/16". I used a metal shim to match them up. >> Mark >> * >> >> In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:40:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: >> >> NAPA carries them. Early Mustang V8. Also NPD. >> >> Tom >> >> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Joel Martin wrote: >> >>> Does anyone have a source for the TRW motor mounts? >>> >>> The TRW numbers are >>> 82220 for the left and 82221 for the right. >>> Thanks >>> martjr >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tigers@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/allanballard@att.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 18:52:46 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 20:52:20 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Welding broken original manifold? I have a question for anyone with experience in welding or having cast iron parts welded. Some guy sold me a set of original Tiger exhaust manifolds and one of them (the right one, of course) had a crack in the flange where the stud to the down pipe goes. To make things worse, the guy also ground down the area for unknown reasons, removing about 2 to 3 mm of material, which further weakened the area. Now you could guess that the flange broke off when I tried to tighten the down pipe to the manifold -- and you'd be right. Ugh. Since I'm not at all interested in communicating further with this particular seller because he seems unreasonable to me, I've decided to focus my energies in investigating whether such a carbon-soaked part could ever be welded successfully (considering about 40 years of hard use). Does anyone have a positive experience in repairing one of these old manifolds? Does anyone know someone who'd do it (in the States)? I'd rather try to have that done than toss the thing into the trash bin and buy another one. Yeah, this was and is all a big waste of money, but it's worth a shot if only to try to prevent an original Tiger part from being trashed. Please let me know what you think. Thanks. M _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 19:37:36 2010 From: rab65tiger@aol.com To: achd73@yahoo.com, larryall@pacbell.net Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:37:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] MK II alternator Bracket http://www.reisentzrestorations.com/ Resientz restorations under there parts header has a bracket derived from the mkII bracket for sale with a picture. RB _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 20:04:38 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 20:59:43 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? List, I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had watched an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said Dennis Gage made the comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be the "next Cobra". Well, wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode was taped; it could have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out there that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable and valuable. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 20:09:51 2010 From: "Jerry & Maureen \(Mo\)" To: "'Would U. Believe'" , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 21:10:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Welding broken original manifold? To answer your question, yes, cast iron can be welded. Just ask around to see who knows HOW to do it in your area. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Would U. Believe Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:52 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Welding broken original manifold? I have a question for anyone with experience in welding or having cast iron parts welded. Some guy sold me a set of original Tiger exhaust manifolds and one of them (the right one, of course) had a crack in the flange where the stud to the down pipe goes. To make things worse, the guy also ground down the area for unknown reasons, removing about 2 to 3 mm of material, which further weakened the area. Now you could guess that the flange broke off when I tried to tighten the down pipe to the manifold -- and you'd be right. Ugh. Since I'm not at all interested in communicating further with this particular seller because he seems unreasonable to me, I've decided to focus my energies in investigating whether such a carbon-soaked part could ever be welded successfully (considering about 40 years of hard use). Does anyone have a positive experience in repairing one of these old manifolds? Does anyone know someone who'd do it (in the States)? I'd rather try to have that done than toss the thing into the trash bin and buy another one. Yeah, this was and is all a big waste of money, but it's worth a shot if only to try to prevent an original Tiger part from being trashed. Please let me know what you think. Thanks. M _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jcmc2006@suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 20:22:47 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: JCMC2006@suddenlink.net, TIGERS@AUTOX.TEAM.NET Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:14:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? And the big problem with a real Cobra is that everyone asks, "Is it real?" There are thousands upon thousands of Cobras. My guess is there are many more "Cobras" than Tigers. Would you want to pay $1M for a car and two guys down the street have fakes that look just like yours? Another reason to weed out the Algers. Tigers are scarce in Vermont and at least half the time I stop for gas, someone walks over and make comments or ask questions about the car. But, no one has ever had to ask if it's real. M List, I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had watched an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said Dennis Gage made the comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be the "next Cobra". Well, wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode was taped; it could have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out there that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable and valuable. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 20:39:14 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Would U. Believe'" , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:31:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Welding broken original manifold? M You grind a V into the crack that is the first step before you weld it with cast iron rod. I had to weld up one of the ears on my manifold due to cracks. What you have can probably be welded. You will need a brass or copper substitute threaded like the bolt that goes there. Weld does not stick to brass or copper so it will maintain the threads. I believe I found a small brass pipe that I could cut the proper thread size on and threaded it into the hole then welded the crack. Your situation sounds like you will need to clamp the ear and brass somehow, weld a little, check the position, weld some more and so on. I think you should find someone with experience welding cast iron and get a hands on opinion in this case. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Would U. Believe Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 8:52 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Welding broken original manifold? I have a question for anyone with experience in welding or having cast iron parts welded. Some guy sold me a set of original Tiger exhaust manifolds and one of them (the right one, of course) had a crack in the flange where the stud to the down pipe goes. To make things worse, the guy also ground down the area for unknown reasons, removing about 2 to 3 mm of material, which further weakened the area. Now you could guess that the flange broke off when I tried to tighten the down pipe to the manifold -- and you'd be right. Ugh. Since I'm not at all interested in communicating further with this particular seller because he seems unreasonable to me, I've decided to focus my energies in investigating whether such a carbon-soaked part could ever be welded successfully (considering about 40 years of hard use). Does anyone have a positive experience in repairing one of these old manifolds? Does anyone know someone who'd do it (in the States)? I'd rather try to have that done than toss the thing into the trash bin and buy another one. Yeah, this was and is all a big waste of money, but it's worth a shot if only to try to prevent an original Tiger part from being trashed. Please let me know what you think. Thanks. M _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 20:40:48 2010 From: Tom Parker To: "Jerry & Maureen (Mo)" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:35:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? The "Cobra" is still in production at the Shelby facility. That's not to say it's the same car as the original, but what's the original? http://www.shelbyautos.com/vehicles/Cobra.asp Present day kit cars... Factory Five comes to mind... are far superior in handling than the original Cobras, from what I've read. I have to admit I'm sore tempted to build one once the Kitty is done. So in terms of the brand, it's reasonable to claim the Tiger is much rarer than the (now mundane) Cobra. I'm not planning on selling mine any time soon. Tom On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) < JCMC2006@suddenlink.net> wrote: > List, > > > > I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had watched > an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said Dennis Gage made the > comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be the "next Cobra". Well, > wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode was taped; it > could > have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out there > that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable and valuable. > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 20:42:51 2010 From: michael king To: CoolVT@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:37:59 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? I guess with the Tiger we get "is it an MG?" or "is it a triumph"... if you are in the know.. "is it a REAL tiger?" As for next cobra.. i figure the shelby breathed on Mustangs are that.. but we all nkow how much better a Tiger is :-P On 4 August 2010 12:14, wrote: > And the big problem with a real Cobra is that everyone asks, "Is it > real?" There are thousands upon thousands of Cobras. My guess is there > are > many more "Cobras" than Tigers. Would you want to pay $1M for a car and > two > guys down the street have fakes that look just like yours? Another reason > to weed out the Algers. > > Tigers are scarce in Vermont and at least half the time I stop for gas, > someone walks over and make comments or ask questions about the car. But, > no > one has ever had to ask if it's real. > M > > > List, > > > > I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had watched > an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said Dennis Gage made the > comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be the "next Cobra". > Well, > wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode was taped; it > could > have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out there > that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable and valuable. > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 21:11:14 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 20:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Weed out ALGERS? So now you want to weed out Algers? Why because they look better or are faster or more options added than your "Tiger"? Better WEED OUT Alpines too...cant have too many runing around looking like yours........... Proud Alger Owner in Florida _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 21:58:17 2010 From: To: John Stithem , tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 20:38:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Wind Diverter behind the seats---does it work in a Yes I made one. It does do the job. on a cool day it can be quite comfortable with the side windows up. I have a roll bar I mounted it to the forward side of the bars. I used 1/4 inch thick Plexiglass. I bolted a 3/4 inch leg Al angle to the bottom edge for stiffness. The sheet is attached to the roll bar with a combination of velcro strips glued to the front of the bar and the plexi and some velcro straps. I left a gap about 4 inches between the package shelf and the bottom of the diverter. At speed you can feel air blowing through the gap. There are a couple of downsides to my set up. 1. I am 6 feet tall and I have the drivers seat all the way back. The top of the seat back rubs on the diverter and it wore a hole through the vinyl. 2. With the diverter in place, if you put the soft top up you cannot reach back to postion the soft top boot ( I have a Mk1a) Same would go for the solid doors on a Mk1. 3. The diverter is too wide to fit in the trunk so once you install it has to stay on. If I had it to do over I would make it in two pieces with a couple of hinges so it would fold up and fit in the trunk, when you want to put the top up. Erich ---- John Stithem wrote: > I would like to hear from anyone that has tried installing a wind diverter > behind the seats in a Tiger to reduce the wind turbulence win the car when > the top is off. It seems to help with the smaller roadsters like the Z4, > Miata. Anyone ever tried it in a Tiger?---what were the results? Seems like > it would be pretty easy to do, putting it between the seats and the > roll-bar---but---why try to build a car with square wheels if we know they > don't work? > > John > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/e.coiner@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 22:08:54 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: CoolVT@aol.com, michael king Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 21:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? Mike- I dont follow-why do you want to weed out Algers? Now I can understand an Alger with a Tiger VIN tag attached being pointed out to one and all as that isnt right but as long as the orginal Alpine Vin tag is on the car, I have no problems with an Alger. I rather see an Alpine w/ a Ford drive train as one with a bow tie engine stuck thru the firewall from a Tiger. Just curious. TtT --- On Tue, 8/3/10, michael king wrote: From: michael king Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? To: CoolVT@aol.com Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net, JCMC2006@suddenlink.net Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 9:37 PM I guess with the Tiger we get "is it an MG?" or "is it a triumph"... if you are in the know.. "is it a REAL tiger?" As for next cobra.. i figure the shelby breathed on Mustangs are that.. but we all nkow how much better a Tiger is :-P On 4 August 2010 12:14, wrote: > And the big problem with a real Cobra is that everyone asks, "Is it > real?" There are thousands upon thousands of Cobras. My guess is there > are > many more "Cobras" than Tigers. Would you want to pay $1M for a car and > two > guys down the street have fakes that look just like yours? Another reason > to weed out the Algers. > > Tigers are scarce in Vermont and at least half the time I stop for gas, > someone walks over and make comments or ask questions about the car. But, > no > one has ever had to ask if it's real. > M > > > List, > > > > I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had watched > an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said Dennis Gage made the > comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be the "next Cobra". > Well, > wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode was taped; it > could > have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out there > that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable and valuable. > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 22:22:20 2010 From: michael king To: mike schreiner Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:22:30 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Weed out ALGERS? Mike, I responded to this comment to tony.. not weeding out algers.. no problem with them if they are represented for what they are.. was a reference to "is it a real one" On 4 August 2010 13:01, mike schreiner wrote: > So now you want to weed out Algers? Why because they look better or are > faster or more options added than your "Tiger"? Better WEED OUT Alpines > too...cant have too many runing around looking like yours........... > Proud Alger Owner in Florida > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 22:24:03 2010 From: "A. C. Tynes" To: "'Tom Parker'" , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 23:24:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? Tom, et al, As I understand it, one of the key differences between the originals and the current Shelby "Cobras" is that there are no engines in the current crop. Shelby can modify existing automobiles, but can no longer build and sell running, driving Cobras. A. C. Tynes New Orleans > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tom Parker > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 9:35 PM > To: Jerry & Maureen (Mo) > Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? > > The "Cobra" is still in production at the Shelby facility. > That's not to say it's the same car as the original, but > what's the original? > http://www.shelbyautos.com/vehicles/Cobra.asp > > Present day kit cars... Factory Five comes to mind... are far > superior in handling than the original Cobras, from what I've > read. I have to admit I'm sore tempted to build one once the > Kitty is done. > > So in terms of the brand, it's reasonable to claim the Tiger > is much rarer than the (now mundane) Cobra. I'm not planning > on selling mine any time soon. > > Tom > > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jerry & Maureen (Mo) < > JCMC2006@suddenlink.net> wrote: > > > List, > > > > > > > > I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had > > watched an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said > Dennis Gage > > made the comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be > the "next Cobra". Well, > > wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode > was taped; it > > could > > have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out > > there that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable > and valuable. > > > > > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > > > 9473187 > > _______________________________________________ > > Tigers@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/v8tracker@gmail.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3047 - Release > Date: 08/03/10 01:35:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 22:26:54 2010 From: michael king To: Tony Somebody Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:21:20 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? Tony.. it was in refernce to people askling "is it a real one?" with cobras.. just saying we have fake tigers too.. was more tounge in cheek.. no problem with things represented for what they are. On 4 August 2010 14:01, Tony Somebody wrote: > Mike- I dont follow-why do you want to weed out Algers? Now I can > understand an Alger with a Tiger VIN tag attached being pointed out to one > and all as that isnt right but as long as the orginal Alpine Vin tag is on > the car, I have no problems with an Alger. I rather see an Alpine w/ a Ford > drive train as one with a bow tie engine stuck thru the firewall from a > Tiger. > Just curious. > TtT > > --- On *Tue, 8/3/10, michael king * wrote: > > > From: michael king > Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? > To: CoolVT@aol.com > Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net, JCMC2006@suddenlink.net > Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 9:37 PM > > I guess with the Tiger we get "is it an MG?" or "is it a triumph"... if > you > are in the know.. "is it a REAL tiger?" > > As for next cobra.. i figure the shelby breathed on Mustangs are that.. but > we all nkow how much better a Tiger is :-P > > On 4 August 2010 12:14, > > wrote: > > > And the big problem with a real Cobra is that everyone asks, "Is it > > real?" There are thousands upon thousands of Cobras. My guess is there > > are > > many more "Cobras" than Tigers. Would you want to pay $1M for a car and > > two > > guys down the street have fakes that look just like yours? Another > reason > > to weed out the Algers. > > > > Tigers are scarce in Vermont and at least half the time I stop for gas, > > someone walks over and make comments or ask questions about the car. > But, > > no > > one has ever had to ask if it's real. > > M > > > > > > List, > > > > > > > > I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had > watched > > an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said Dennis Gage made the > > comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be the "next Cobra". > > Well, > > wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode was taped; it > > could > > have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out > there > > that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable and valuable. > > > > > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > > > 9473187 > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > > > > > > -- > Regards > > Michael King > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com > > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 3 22:51:22 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: "'Would U. Believe'" , Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 21:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Welding broken original manifold? That seller was me TtT and I sanded the rust off the bottom of the manifold- I did take the corner off BUT it didn't weaken anything and since we are using american measurements on cars that do not use metric tools or bolts, why not say the amount in decimals or fractions, as I'm to dumb to understand 2 or 3 mm and the crack was not in the manifold when I shipped it- I will be in W.Va. the weekend of Oct 15- how far are you from the state line off I-64?. You started bitching I had ruined the manifold because I sanded metal off the bottom- hell the place I sanded doesn't even touch anything and its very strange you say the crack was there but you never mentioned that. You say you didn't do it when tightening a stud to tight- well I insured the hell out of the set, so either you did it or the post office did- anyone interested, I have the pics he sent me. If anyone had sent me the manifold I wouldn't have worried about the corner of the flat sanded off, but I would have returned it if it was cracked as it would have been obvious it wouldn't hold up. By the way, you weld cast with nickle rod. Low hydrogen can be used but only if nickel isn't available, it needs preheated and a REAL welder should weld it up as he will tack it, let it cool, weld a little, let it cool etc etc, So don't refer to the guy who sold it to you, refer to TonytheTiger as I have nothing to hide from. I may be a bit dumb for selling the best set I had for $50 and paying for half the shipping- that was pretty dumb. One set on epay is at almost $200 and that was last night- I believe I win the dumb ass award BUT Sandy just gave me some parts and another TE/AE guy gave me a deal on some 5.0 parts for one of these days, so I must have been in the giving mood. Now I'm in a real pissy mood and it seems to be getting worse. Does this only happen to me or does everyone experience this kind of thing? I dig thru boxes on the top shelf on an old rickety step ladder that I was afraid I was going to go crashing to the ground on,in a hot ass garage, dug out 3 sets of exhaust manifolds, found the best set- sanded the rust off, used kroil oil and a tap on the hole that didn't have a stud already installed, payed almost $4 for a roll of shipping tape, buy bags with air and gather up Styrofoam, go to UPS and get a price, then to the post office and get a cheaper price, pay for half the shipping, wait on getting paid because the guy doesn't like using paypal, so when I ask if he is going to pay the check arrives the next day- embarrassed again and then I catch hell for removing metal when I sanded the rust off and he is right, I had new glasses on, so I removed them and used safety glasses and I'm pretty blind, and I did take the corner off- I was using the 100 grit sanding disc Ive usd to sharpened the blades on my grasshopper for the last 3 years- it isn't anywhere near 100 grit now but it will still sharpen blades and remove the corner of a Tiger exhaust manifold. Again, it touches nothing and IF it bothers you, have the welder put a pass on and grind it back flat and square- he will laugh at you if you tell him its because you feel the manifold is weakened in anyway BUT he may still do it. Well I said I was done with this and I hope I am, I'm almost out of Valium. TtT _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 04:51:41 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: mike schreiner , Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 06:51:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Weed out ALGERS? Mike, I think he was just making a harmless parallel with the Cobra in that it's possible mistake a copy for the real thing. In the case of the Tiger, it's possible for inexperienced and naove buyers to pay Tiger money for modified Alpines, which can make the prospect of buying a Tiger seem risky, which can then increase the fear factor, which can potentially harm the value of the real thing. I believe risk is always offset by paying more for a service (like insurance), or less for a product. I think the solution (if one were really needed) is the TAC program. If one has a genuine Tiger, s/he should get the car authenticated and documented. There were not that many Tigers made, and even fewer have survived, so it seems feasible to me that most if not all Tigers could be documented. This would make it less likely for an unscrupulous seller to take advantage of a naove buyer by claiming an Alger is a genuine Tiger and having the buyer believe him. The TAC registry, if it were more widely known to the "masses", would remove most of the need for detailed buyer knowledge, which would remove much of the risk and fear factor. This is nothing new, though. I have a spare Porsche 911 engine that I'm considering dropping into a Porsche 914 chassis, for example. This car, no matter what, will never be a rare and expensive 914/6. It will always be a dime-a-dozen 914. Unless... If I sell it for plain-Jane upgraded 914 money to someone down the road who then flips it, claiming it to be a true 914/6... The bottom line is that I think the key to protecting values of genuine articles is always proper documentation. Porsche offers authentication documentation for owners, not too different than Norm's Tiger registry. On 8/3/10 11:01 PM, "mike schreiner" wrote: > So now you want to weed out Algers? Why because they look better or are > faster or more options added than your "Tiger"? Better WEED OUT Alpines > too...cant have too many runing around looking like yours........... > Proud Alger Owner in Florida > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 06:14:29 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: achd73@yahoo.com, michael.s.king@gmail.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:57:03 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? My definition of an Alger is a "fake" tiger. A hopped up Alpine is an Alpine. If someone is truthful in what they have, then I have no problem. M In a message dated 8/4/2010 12:01:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, achd73@yahoo.com writes: Mike- I dont follow-why do you want to weed out Algers? Now I can understand an Alger with a Tiger VIN tag attached being pointed out to one and all as that isnt right but as long as the orginal Alpine Vin tag is on the car, I have no problems with an Alger. I rather see an Alpine w/ a Ford drive train as one with a bow tie engine stuck thru the firewall from a Tiger. Just curious. TtT --- On Tue, 8/3/10, michael king wrote: From: michael king Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? To: CoolVT@aol.com Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net, JCMC2006@suddenlink.net Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 9:37 PM I guess with the Tiger we get "is it an MG?" or "is it a triumph"... if you are in the know.. "is it a REAL tiger?" As for next cobra.. i figure the shelby breathed on Mustangs are that.. but we all nkow how much better a Tiger is :-P On 4 August 2010 12:14, <_CoolVT@aol.com_ (http://us.mc304.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=CoolVT@aol.com) > wrote: > And the big problem with a real Cobra is that everyone asks, "Is it > real?" There are thousands upon thousands of Cobras. My guess is there > are > many more "Cobras" than Tigers. Would you want to pay $1M for a car and > two > guys down the street have fakes that look just like yours? Another reason > to weed out the Algers. > > Tigers are scarce in Vermont and at least half the time I stop for gas, > someone walks over and make comments or ask questions about the car. But, > no > one has ever had to ask if it's real. > M > > > List, > > > > I was just at our monthly Mustang meeting, and one of the guys had watched > an episode of My Classic Car last Sunday, he said Dennis Gage made the > comment that he thought the Tiger was going to be the "next Cobra". > Well, > wouldn't that be nice?? I don't know when that episode was taped; it > could > have been an old show. The price for original Cobras is so far out there > that he thought the Tiger would become more desirable and valuable. > > > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > _______________________________________________ > _Tigers@autox.team.net_ (http://us.mc304.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tigers@autox.team.net) > Donate: _http://www.team.net/donate.html_ (http://www.team.net/donate.html) > Archive: _http://www.team.net/archive_ (http://www.team.net/archive) > Forums: _http://www.team.net/forums_ (http://www.team.net/forums) > Unsubscribe/Manage: > _http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com_ (http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com) > _______________________________________________ > _Tigers@autox.team.net_ (http://us.mc304.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tigers@autox.team.net) > Donate: _http://www.team.net/donate.html_ (http://www.team.net/donate.html) > Archive: _http://www.team.net/archive_ (http://www.team.net/archive) > Forums: _http://www.team.net/forums_ (http://www.team.net/forums) > Unsubscribe/Manage: > _http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com_ (http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com) > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ _Tigers@autox.team.net_ (http://us.mc304.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tigers@autox.team.net) Donate: _http://www.team.net/donate.html_ (http://www.team.net/donate.html) Archive: _http://www.team.net/archive_ (http://www.team.net/archive) Forums: _http://www.team.net/forums_ (http://www.team.net/forums) Unsubscribe/Manage: _http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com_ (http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com) _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 06:14:59 2010 From: "rande" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 08:04:23 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 'the new Cobra' Hi, Frankly, Jerry, just let us know when the Cobra becomes the next Tiger, because only then will I be able to afford something I've wanted for 45 years, a leaf spring Cobra Series 2. As for someone walking up to us at a petrol station, and asking if the Tiger is a real one, that is a bit of compliment, because they would have to have learned enough about what a Tiger is, and that there are fakes. My problem with Algers is three-fold. There's the honesty(not owning up) factor, there's the 'it's not a real Tiger' factor, and finally, someone changed over a perfectly nice Alpine IV or V, which are gradually climbing in value on their own and are pretty neat cars as they stand. I feel the same way about the 'continuation' saga with Shelby and the 'found' sixties V.I.N. plates. I think the blame is one part Shelby, one part the motoring press, but to some people it managed to taint the reputation of two companies that otherwise have done good work. It's all about being completely upfront about what you have. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 07:35:32 2010 From: FHSLOTH13@aol.com To: tkparker1941@gmail.com, allanballard@att.net Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 09:13:39 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool I made the cooling modifications recommended in TE/AE's Rootes Review several years ago and had some insulating material added to the firewall and floors when I redid the interior. I also plugged several unused holes in the firewall. Engine temp went from 215 operating to 195 operating with a corresponding drop in cabin temperature. Fred Baum In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:35:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: Allan, Through the tunnel, through the floor. Through the shifter hole. throuch every orifice. Rick sells plugs; so does British wiring. They're not expensive. Classic Motorsports used Thermo-Tec's "Cool-it"noise suppression / heat barrier; it's available from Summit. When I spoke to Tim at last year's Mitty he swore by it. so, today as luck would have it, I ordered some. If it's as good as he claimed I expect to be as cool as an old man can be. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 09:20:32 2010 From: drmayf To: CoolVT@aol.com Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 08:00:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? Now that's a definition I can agree on! I don't think I have ever run across another car that has adopted terminology of using split names to identify it when modified. This is one of the reasons the salt flats race car is simply listed as a Sunbeam. I tell everyone it is a Alpine. mayf CoolVT@aol.com wrote: >My definition of an Alger is a "fake" tiger. A hopped up Alpine is an >Alpine. If someone is truthful in what they have, then I have no problem. >M > > >In a message dated 8/4/2010 12:01:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >achd73@yahoo.com writes: > >Mike- I dont follow-why do you want to weed out Algers? Now I can >understand an Alger with a Tiger VIN tag attached being pointed out to one and all >as that isnt right but as long as the orginal Alpine Vin tag is on the car, >I have no problems with an Alger. I rather see an Alpine w/ a Ford drive >train as one with a bow tie engine stuck thru the firewall from a Tiger. > Just curious. >TtT _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 09:39:00 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , , Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:12:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool There is a big furnace in front of the driver and radiant pipes under the floorboards; all contribute to the cabin temperature. The more HP you have the more heat you can generate. The biggest problem with the Tiger is getting the heat out not staying warm like many other British cars. To totally address this issue you need to look at the whole system. Insulate, insulate and insulate to reduce the heat. Spray on Lizard Skin product is one way to go; there are others that will help repel some of the heat. I added some 3/8" insulating pad under the carpet and that did a very good job of lowering the heat but the whole floor pan needs insulation to really keep the heat out of the cabin. Have you ever watch the program OVERHAULING with Chip Foose? Everyone of the vehicles has the interior lined with DynoMat or a similar product for sound deadening and heat reduction. Once you insulate the cabin then you add A/C to keep your cool like several Tiger Owners. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of FHSLOTH13@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 9:14 AM To: tkparker1941@gmail.com; allanballard@att.net Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool I made the cooling modifications recommended in TE/AE's Rootes Review several years ago and had some insulating material added to the firewall and floors when I redid the interior. I also plugged several unused holes in the firewall. Engine temp went from 215 operating to 195 operating with a corresponding drop in cabin temperature. Fred Baum In a message dated 8/3/2010 4:35:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tkparker1941@gmail.com writes: Allan, Through the tunnel, through the floor. Through the shifter hole. throuch every orifice. Rick sells plugs; so does British wiring. They're not expensive. Classic Motorsports used Thermo-Tec's "Cool-it"noise suppression / heat barrier; it's available from Summit. When I spoke to Tim at last year's Mitty he swore by it. so, today as luck would have it, I ordered some. If it's as good as he claimed I expect to be as cool as an old man can be. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 09:55:24 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: , , Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:33:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? I know you guys are just bantering...and thankfully no one is taking this too serious or getting offended. But you have stepped into my world again...proud owner of a real sunbeam Tiger, and a fake Cobra. Remember the motivation...I basically all but worshipped Shelby Cobras since I was old enough to know what they were...and that's about age....10. I dreamed of having one for 20 years and still dream about it, but now I have a replica, and I tell people that's what it is...and you can't mistake it for a real one...it handles great, doesn't get hot in the floor boards, and is a smoother ride....so you know its fake. Plus mine doesn't say "Shelby" anywhere on it....it does say cobra...but then again, I had a mustang Cobra for awhile from SVT, so there is nothing particularly sacred about that either. Remember that imitation is the finest form of flattery...that's not just a saying, it's true. I'm paying a compliment to Ole Shel and his cobras by having a fake one....I believe it with all my heart. I go to sleep at night reading about the Shelby American team drivers, the production, the development of the cars that made history and set the stage for our investments and interest today. Tigers, Daytona coupes, trans am racing....you name it, I love to know, so I'm not some kid that saw it in a mag or on TV and decided I wanted one but don't know what it is... I also have no less than 50 miniature versions in plastic and die cast sitting around my house....but I have a full scale version in the shop that makes noise. Im part of the worlds greatest fan club.... Like Mark said last I think, just represent it accurately...and you are fine in my book. I don't believe that Algers diminish the value of Tigers, I think they support the market for Tigers, making them more valuable. I don't see anywhere where replica cobras have sacrificed the value of real ones....unless you want to play "what it" and say that a real 427 big block SC would be worth 2 million instead of one million if replicas hadn't existed...and personally I don't buy it. My 2 cents on the same discussion.....again...but still fun to have. Cullen _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 10:07:45 2010 From: "Teepen, Jere" To: "Would U. Believe" , mike schreiner Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:52:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Weed out ALGERS? And there is a demand for Algers. In 2002 I sold my '67 "Tiger" for my asking price of $12,000. It had been on the market for four hours. I made a list of all of the components and where they were sourced, and made it abundantly clear the car was not a Tiger. It looked, sounded, and moved like a Tiger. The buyer also had (has) a CSX4000 Shelby Cobra and was aware of Tigers and the pitfalls of fake versus real. He appreciated the fact that the car was advertised as what it is, no pretenses. I occasionally saw the buyer for a few years after he bought the car and he once commented he enjoyed driving it as much as his Cobra. Good for him! Now back to preparations for Bonneville! -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Would U. Believe Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:52 AM To: mike schreiner; Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Weed out ALGERS? Mike, I think he was just making a harmless parallel with the Cobra in that it's possible mistake a copy for the real thing. In the case of the Tiger, it's possible for inexperienced and naove buyers to pay Tiger money for modified Alpines, which can make the prospect of buying a Tiger seem risky, which can then increase the fear factor, which can potentially harm the value of the real thing. I believe risk is always offset by paying more for a service (like insurance), or less for a product. I think the solution (if one were really needed) is the TAC program. If one has a genuine Tiger, s/he should get the car authenticated and documented. There were not that many Tigers made, and even fewer have survived, so it seems feasible to me that most if not all Tigers could be documented. This would make it less likely for an unscrupulous seller to take advantage of a naove buyer by claiming an Alger is a genuine Tiger and having the buyer believe him. The TAC registry, if it were more widely known to the "masses", would remove most of the need for detailed buyer knowledge, which would remove much of the risk and fear factor. This is nothing new, though. I have a spare Porsche 911 engine that I'm considering dropping into a Porsche 914 chassis, for example. This car, no matter what, will never be a rare and expensive 914/6. It will always be a dime-a-dozen 914. Unless... If I sell it for plain-Jane upgraded 914 money to someone down the road who then flips it, claiming it to be a true 914/6... The bottom line is that I think the key to protecting values of genuine articles is always proper documentation. Porsche offers authentication documentation for owners, not too different than Norm's Tiger registry. On 8/3/10 11:01 PM, "mike schreiner" wrote: > So now you want to weed out Algers? Why because they look better or are > faster or more options added than your "Tiger"? Better WEED OUT Alpines > too...cant have too many runing around looking like yours........... > Proud Alger Owner in Florida _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 10:08:00 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Joel Martin'" , Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:53:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Radiator Overflow Tube Joel Length = about 3.5" out of the radiator; not sure how much tube is inside the radiator; I guess at least 1/4" Diameter = 5/16" tube Angle looks a little short of 90, maybe 85 degrees @ about 1" out of the radiator The tube should be angled toward the overflow tank tube; also note that a somewhat shorter tube will give you a little more access to getting the rubber hose onto these metal tubes; a longer tube will make getting the hose on more difficult Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joel Martin Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:40 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Radiator Overflow Tube What is the correct length, diameter and angle of the radiator overflow tube coming out the drivers' side top portion of the radiator for a 1966 MK1A? I will need to add this overflow tube when the radiator is repaired. Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 10:19:06 2010 From: "Teepen, Jere" To: Cullen McCann , "CoolVT@aol.com" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:06:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? I agree with your statement: "I don't believe that Algers diminish the value of Tigers, I think they support the market for Tigers, making them more valuable." Wholeheartedly. For a business it is location, location, location. For car values it is exposure, exposure, exposure. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cullen McCann Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:33 AM To: CoolVT@aol.com; achd73@yahoo.com; michael.s.king@gmail.com Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net; JCMC2006@suddenlink.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? I know you guys are just bantering...and thankfully no one is taking this too serious or getting offended. But you have stepped into my world again...proud owner of a real sunbeam Tiger, and a fake Cobra. Remember the motivation...I basically all but worshipped Shelby Cobras since I was old enough to know what they were...and that's about age....10. I dreamed of having one for 20 years and still dream about it, but now I have a replica, and I tell people that's what it is...and you can't mistake it for a real one...it handles great, doesn't get hot in the floor boards, and is a smoother ride....so you know its fake. Plus mine doesn't say "Shelby" anywhere on it....it does say cobra...but then again, I had a mustang Cobra for awhile from SVT, so there is nothing particularly sacred about that either. Remember that imitation is the finest form of flattery...that's not just a saying, it's true. I'm paying a compliment to Ole Shel and his cobras by having a fake one....I believe it with all my heart. I go to sleep at night reading about the Shelby American team drivers, the production, the development of the cars that made history and set the stage for our investments and interest today. Tigers, Daytona coupes, trans am racing....you name it, I love to know, so I'm not some kid that saw it in a mag or on TV and decided I wanted one but don't know what it is... I also have no less than 50 miniature versions in plastic and die cast sitting around my house....but I have a full scale version in the shop that makes noise. Im part of the worlds greatest fan club.... Like Mark said last I think, just represent it accurately...and you are fine in my book. I don't believe that Algers diminish the value of Tigers, I think they support the market for Tigers, making them more valuable. I don't see anywhere where replica cobras have sacrificed the value of real ones....unless you want to play "what it" and say that a real 427 big block SC would be worth 2 million instead of one million if replicas hadn't existed...and personally I don't buy it. My 2 cents on the same discussion.....again...but still fun to have. Cullen _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 10:35:10 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: jteepen@usatoday.com, clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com, achd73@yahoo.com, Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:11:59 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? In a message dated 8/4/2010 12:06:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jteepen@usatoday.com writes: For car values it is exposure, exposure, exposure Hmm, not so sure I agree with that theory. There are millions of used Hondas out there and I haven't seen their values skyrocketing. M _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 10:51:32 2010 From: Allan Ballard To: "tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 12:28:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? The only reason I had enough nerve to buy my Tiger is that it has been TAC'd. I am living proof that people who realize that they can be easily fooled will back away from a restoration-Tiger due to fear it might be fake, and mine is a gem as such cars go. I would support introduction of a TAC type plate for Algers, uniform and consistently located, and buyer beware of V8 Sunbeams (either Tigers or Algers)not examined by those who are most knowledgeable.. Allan Ballard On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Teepen, Jere wrote: > I agree with your statement: "I don't believe that Algers diminish the value > of Tigers, I think they > support the market for Tigers, making them more valuable." Wholeheartedly. > For a business it is location, location, location. For car values it is > exposure, exposure, exposure. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Cullen McCann > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:33 AM > To: CoolVT@aol.com; achd73@yahoo.com; michael.s.king@gmail.com > Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net; JCMC2006@suddenlink.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] The Next Cobra?? > > I know you guys are just bantering...and thankfully no one is taking this > too serious or getting offended. But you have stepped into my world > again...proud owner of a real sunbeam Tiger, and a fake Cobra. Remember the > motivation...I basically all but worshipped Shelby Cobras since I was old > enough to know what they were...and that's about age....10. I dreamed of > having one for 20 years and still dream about it, but now I have a replica, > and I tell people that's what it is...and you can't mistake it for a real > one...it handles great, doesn't get hot in the floor boards, and is a > smoother ride....so you know its fake. Plus mine doesn't say "Shelby" > anywhere on it....it does say cobra...but then again, I had a mustang Cobra > for awhile from SVT, so there is nothing particularly sacred about that > either. > > Remember that imitation is the finest form of flattery...that's not just a > saying, it's true. I'm paying a compliment to Ole Shel and his cobras by > having a fake one....I believe it with all my heart. I go to sleep at night > reading about the Shelby American team drivers, the production, the > development of the cars that made history and set the stage for our > investments and interest today. Tigers, Daytona coupes, trans am > racing....you name it, I love to know, so I'm not some kid that saw it in a > mag or on TV and decided I wanted one but don't know what it is... I also > have no less than 50 miniature versions in plastic and die cast sitting > around my house....but I have a full scale version in the shop that makes > noise. Im part of the worlds greatest fan club.... > > Like Mark said last I think, just represent it accurately...and you are fine > in my book. > > I don't believe that Algers diminish the value of Tigers, I think they > support the market for Tigers, making them more valuable. I don't see > anywhere where replica cobras have sacrificed the value of real > ones....unless you want to play "what it" and say that a real 427 big block > SC would be worth 2 million instead of one million if replicas hadn't > existed...and personally I don't buy it. > > My 2 cents on the same discussion.....again...but still fun to have. > > Cullen > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/allanballard@att.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 11:22:00 2010 From: Joel Martin To: rfraser@bluefrog.com, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Radiator Overflow Tube Ron Excellent, as always thank you for the information. Joel ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Fraser To: Joel Martin ; tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Wed, August 4, 2010 11:53:17 AM Subject: RE: [Tigers] Radiator Overflow Tube Joel Length = about 3.5" out of the radiator; not sure how much tube is inside the radiator; I guess at least 1/4" Diameter = 5/16" tube Angle looks a little short of 90, maybe 85 degrees @ about 1" out of the radiator The tube should be angled toward the overflow tank tube; also note that a somewhat shorter tube will give you a little more access to getting the rubber hose onto these metal tubes; a longer tube will make getting the hose on more difficult Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joel Martin Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:40 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Radiator Overflow Tube What is the correct length, diameter and angle of the radiator overflow tube coming out the drivers' side top portion of the radiator for a 1966 MK1A? I will need to add this overflow tube when the radiator is repaired. Thanks martjr _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 20:39:20 2010 From: Mark J Bradakis To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 19:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Server woes Came home from work and found out there were issues, starting a bit after noon Utah time. Team.Net is now back on the air. I wonder how many "Is this thing on?" messages I'll have to delete over the next little while? mjb, the one who is obviously overpaid and underworked when it comes to Team.Net! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 20:39:58 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: rfraser@bluefrog.com Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:50:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool Ron, I will second and third the use of DynoMat. I have covered the door interiors on the skin backside. Significant reduction in noise, and a nice "thunk" when the door is closed. Similar covering under the floor mats, and firewall backside. These panels are 12" square, and about 1/8 " thick rubber-like, with an aluminum foil face and an adhesive back. I purchased them at an automotive paint store. They are much better than a fiberglass mat in doing the job intended, and are an insignificant weight addition, Now, I close the door and it sounds like a Cadillac, the road noise and engine heat and noise are reduced a lot. Easy to use, with "tin-snips". Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Ron Fraser wrote: > There is a big furnace in front of the driver and radiant pipes > under the floorboards; all contribute to the cabin temperature. The more > HP you have the more heat you can generate. The biggest problem with the > Tiger is getting the heat out not staying warm like many other British cars. > To totally address this issue you need to look at the whole system. > Insulate, insulate and insulate to reduce the heat. > > Spray on Lizard Skin product is one way to go; there are others that will > help repel some of the heat. > > I added some 3/8" insulating pad under the carpet and that did a > very good job of lowering the heat but the whole floor pan needs insulation > to really keep the heat out of the cabin. > > Have you ever watch the program OVERHAULING with Chip Foose? > Everyone of the vehicles has the interior lined with *DynoMat* or a similar > product for sound deadening and heat reduction. > > Once you insulate the cabin then you add A/C to keep your cool like several > Tiger Owners. > > Ron Fraser _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 20:40:06 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tiger's Den Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 15:13:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool - recommendation Ron, I will second and third the use of DynoMat. I have covered the door interiors on the door skin backside. Significant reduction in noise, and a nice "thunk" when the door is closed. Similar covering under the floor mats, and firewall backside. These panels are 12" square, and about 1/8 " thick rubber-like, with an aluminum foil face and an adhesive back. I purchased them at an automotive paint store. They are much better than a fiberglass mat in doing the job intended, and are an insignificant weight addition, Now, I close the door and it sounds like a Cadillac, the road noise and engine heat and noise are reduced a lot. Easy to use, with "tin-snips". -- Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 21:08:10 2010 From: Tom Parker To: LIST TIGER Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 15:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock This is mainly a question for Steve Laifman, I think he's addressed it before; if anyone else knows please chip in: Steve, Which clock was used in the ' 67 Tiger 2? I know the diameter is 60 mm (@ 2 3/8") and the hands are orange, but I think I read you mentioned a difference in the numbers. I can't find the original post. Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 21:41:49 2010 From: Bill Waite To: Tiger Talk List Tiger Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Towing Question Tiger Listers... Any of you guys have experience towing a Tiger a modest distance (in this case about 200 miles round trip) using a two-wheel "tow dolly" (the type you run the front wheels up on, put it in neutral and tow with rear wheels on the road)? Any notes of caution or concerns? Bill Waite Grand Rapids, MI _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 22:26:28 2010 From: michael king To: Tom Parker Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:00:57 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock The MKII used the later model clock as per sunbeam alpine SV, this has the smaller numbers with the 9 and 3 vertical. its smiths part #CE3131/01 On 5 August 2010 05:34, Tom Parker wrote: > This is mainly a question for Steve Laifman, I think he's addressed it > before; if anyone else knows please chip in: > > Steve, > > Which clock was used in the ' 67 Tiger 2? I know the diameter is 60 mm (@ 2 > 3/8") and the hands are orange, but I think I read you mentioned a > difference in the numbers. I can't find the original post. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 22:29:19 2010 From: michael king To: Bill Waite Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:07:24 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Towing Question i havent towed a car.. but i hear its better to disconnect the drive shaft.. apparently not great having it all spin along even thought the careis in neutral On 5 August 2010 07:47, Bill Waite wrote: > Tiger Listers... > > Any of you guys have experience towing a Tiger a modest > distance (in this case > about 200 miles round trip) using a two-wheel "tow > dolly" (the type you run the > front wheels up on, put it in neutral and tow > with rear wheels on the road)? > Any notes of caution or concerns? > > Bill Waite > Grand Rapids, MI > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 23:13:22 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 21:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fw: Re: Towing Question

--- On Thu, 8/5/10, michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com> wrote:

From: michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Towing Question
To: "mike schreiner" <mikeflbmer@yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 12:38 AM



On 5 August 2010 14:36, mike schreiner <mikeflbmer@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have used tow dollies with sunbeams...they tow great at 70....dont even know it is back there....but I always disconnect the driveshaft and tie it up to the car real good (so I dont loose tranny oil)  If you dont you can damage the mainshaft in the tranny as the oil is not level as the car is jacked up in the front...front tranny bearings can be starved of oil...mike

--- On Thu, 8/5/10, michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Towing Question
> To: "Bill Waite" <fordlandia@sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: "Tiger Talk List Tiger" <tigers@autox.team.net>
> Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 12:07 AM
> i havent towed a car.. but i hear its
> better to disconnect the drive shaft..
> apparently not great having it all spin along even thought
> the careis in
> neutral
>
> On 5 August 2010 07:47, Bill Waite <fordlandia@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Tiger Listers...
> >
> > Any of you guys have experience towing a Tiger a
> modest
> > distance (in this case
> > about 200 miles round trip) using a two-wheel "tow
> > dolly" (the type you run the
> > front wheels up on, put it in neutral and tow
> > with rear wheels on the road)?
> > Any notes of caution or concerns?
> >
> > Bill Waite
> > Grand Rapids, MI
> _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 4 23:38:36 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] TOW DOLLY tHEY TOW VERY NICE....HAVE TOWED AtIGER AND aLPINES...CAN RUN 70MPH + AND YOU DONT EVEN KNOW IT IS BACK THERE....bUT, i ALWAYS UNHOOK THE DRIVESHAFT AND STRAP IT UP IN THE CAR (YOU WILL LOSE TRANNY OIL IF YOU PULL IT OUT) iF YOU DONT DO THAT IT WILL SPIN THE TRANNY MAINSHAFT AND STARVE THE FRONT BEARING AS THE CAR IS NOW TILTED AND THE OIL IS NOT LEVEL....MIKE OPPS CAPS KEY ON accidently _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 07:53:24 2010 From: "rande" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:23:35 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) 'Oh Gee...How about someone saved a rusted out hulk of a car from extinction....and if it was made an Alger it is a much better car ' I think you and I differ about what a much better car is. As I wrote, I prefer that an Alpine be restored back to its Alpine origins, and if one's car started out as Tiger, to bring it back as a Tiger. And, if rationally, the Tiger body that you're starting with is so far gone from corrosion, you'll just have to make the decision whether to do the expensive metal work, sell the Tiger for parts, or sell the Tiger whole to someone who can afford to do the work and buy another one in better shape that you can afford. This is solely my opinion. For all of the concern about what people think of folks who built Algers, our primary objection is to those who aren't up front about what they have, and you're NOT part of this target group. While some of us wouldn't have made the choice you did, none the less we're not getting on your case. You and us have spent too many years in the Tiger/Alpine hobby to let this be a devisive issue. The admonition I would issue is that as more newbies learn more about Tigers and Alpines, the TAC teams,, and availability of club members to inspect prospective purchases on their behalf, folks selling cars they're not completely honest about are in for a shock. Seller beware. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 07:58:00 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:37:12 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer My BaT daily newsletter found this..pretty clean car. Comments at the bottom of the page are complimentary of Tigers in general, and suggestive of increasing value.. Wheels on it are pretty bad.sorry if it belongs to anyone on the list, but I don't like your wheel choice.rest of the car is great! Cullen http://bringatrailer.com/2010/08/05/bat-exclusive-1966-sunbeam-tiger/#more- _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 08:22:11 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: "mike schreiner" , Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:06:12 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] TOW DOLLY Not to contradict Mike's experience, but to lend a little perspective: I towed a friend's newly acquired MGC from Marblehead, Ma. to Halifax, Nova Scotia (850 miles) about 9 years back on a dolly, behind my GMC Safari van. It was a terrible experience. We drove down to Marblehead with the empty dolly loaded with 40 lb sandbags to give it some stability. On the I-95 anything over 60 mph would set the dolly into an increasing oscillation that threatened to flick us into the ditch. The only solution was to keep it around 55 mph, and when the swings started, slow down very gently. We did disconnect the driveshaft and plugged the hole in the tranny. With the car aboard, the dolly was more stable, but still resisted steady-state cruising over 60 mph. When least expected, it would start the oscillation dance. I wish we had had Mike's excellent adventure with the dolly, but alas, we won't be doing that again any time soon. BTW, it was a Budget Car and Truck Rentals dolly. Dave From: "mike schreiner" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: [Tigers] TOW DOLLY > tHEY TOW VERY NICE....HAVE TOWED AtIGER AND aLPINES...CAN RUN 70MPH + AND > YOU DONT EVEN KNOW IT IS BACK THERE....bUT, i ALWAYS UNHOOK THE DRIVESHAFT > AND STRAP IT UP IN THE CAR (YOU WILL LOSE TRANNY OIL IF YOU PULL IT OUT) > iF YOU DONT DO THAT IT WILL SPIN THE TRANNY MAINSHAFT AND STARVE THE FRONT > BEARING AS THE CAR IS NOW TILTED AND THE OIL IS NOT LEVEL....MIKE OPPS > CAPS KEY ON accidently _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 08:23:37 2010 From: Carmods@aol.com To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:10:40 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Towing Question _fordlandia@sbcglobal.net_ (mailto:fordlandia@sbcglobal.net) writes: Any of you guys have experience towing a Tiger a modest distance (in this case about 200 miles Hi Bill, I don't know about the Top Loader but I do know that theT-5 Five Speed has very limited lubrication to the roller bearings under the gears when in being towed in neutral. I would assume the Top Loader is similar. I would recommend removing the drive shaft at the differential and wiring it up to the chassis or inserting a plug on the output shaft if you are going to tow it more than 50 miles. John Logan _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 08:39:52 2010 From: Tom Parker To: rande@thecia.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:15:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) I've owned my Tiger for almost thirty-five years, and before about 2000 I had no idea what I had, much less what an Alger was. The internet has changed everything; information once mostly hidden is now easy to find. Alpines are common compared to Tigers, and they are valued accordingly. I don't agree that it would be nice if all cars were restored to their original glory. Frankly, it isn't going to happen. Ever. Americans build hot rods. We always have, and the automotive industry is better for it. Some Rootes owners choose to re-engine their cars. Drmayf is a great example here; he campaigns an Alpine at Bonneville, and it surely doesn't have a 4 cylinder engine in it. Good for him, and good for the marque. So if someone wants to make a Hot Rod out of an Alpine, in my opinion, have at it. It's a fun car to drive, and a chalenge to work on. Algers are fairly valued - typically about half the price of a "real" Tiger; the difference isn't the workmanship, by the way, it's who did it - the factory or an individual builder. Nothing more. Let the purists fret over every but, bolt, and washer. Good for them, too. For me, I'm looking forward to just being able to drive the Kitty again. When it's sold all the original parts'll go with it... in boxes. Tom On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 9:23 AM, rande wrote: > 'Oh Gee...How about someone saved a rusted out hulk of a car from > extinction....and > if it was made an Alger it is a much better car ' > > I think you and I differ about what a much better car is. As I wrote, I > prefer > that an Alpine be restored back to its Alpine origins, and if one's car > started > out as Tiger, to bring it back as a Tiger. And, if rationally, the Tiger > body > that you're starting with is so far gone from corrosion, you'll just have > to > make the decision whether to do the expensive metal work, sell the Tiger > for > parts, or sell the Tiger whole to someone who can afford to do the work and > buy another one in better shape that you can afford. This is solely my > opinion. > > > For all of the concern about what people think of folks who built Algers, > our > primary objection is to those who aren't up front about what they have, and > you're NOT part of this target group. While some of us wouldn't have made > the > choice you did, none the less we're not getting on your case. You and us > have > spent too many years in the Tiger/Alpine hobby to let this be a devisive > issue. > > > The admonition I would issue is that as more newbies learn more about > Tigers > and Alpines, the TAC teams,, and availability of club members to inspect > prospective > purchases on their behalf, folks selling cars they're not completely honest > about are in for a shock. Seller beware. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 08:57:54 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Algers So you must then dissaprove of all those millions of hot rods that are show quality.......40 fords with chevy v8s and AC and the like.....I think they are great.....When there is a Sunbeam United, they have a class for Alpine V8......and the "clone" owners go there ( I prefer that term)......Remember that Rootes made the tigers from Alpine shells. and of course the prototypes were "Algers" ,,,I have owned three factory Tigers in the past....and have two nice and original Alpines now. The reason i built the "Clone" tiger is that with no money or job (hope and change) there is no way I can afford one...mike _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 08:59:32 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Tow Dolly I did have a problem once using a tow dolly....I towed my wire wheel Alpine to a meet in Charleston from Florida years ago. I was too lazy to take the driveshaft out so I towed the car backwards with the steering wheel tied straight. That is a big mistake with a wire wheel car. I was singing along at 75mph....at night....finally get to the hotel in charleston....rolled the window down in my tow vehicle as i pulled into the hotel parking lot and heard all kinds of crunching noised from the Alpine.....Upon inspection I realized one of the front wheels was coming loose and would have fallen off if I had gone another mile or two. The bearing (what was left of it ) was now heat welded to the spindle. The knock offs are treaded differently on each side of the car...the design keeps them tight with nmomentum when you drive.....and has the opposite effect if towed backwards....The car could not be fixed until I returned home (turned it around to tow home)...so it sat there broken during the whole united. mIKE _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 09:14:17 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 07:49:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer Did anyone else notice the end of the ad? "The seller also has available a mint Book of Norman Vol. 1. for $850." I'm not sure if that is the going rate in this economy, or a good deal on a $1,500 book. My guess is that the book will probably be offered to the buyer first. But, you never know... . Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 09:43:27 2010 From: drmayf To: Tom Parker Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:14:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) Tom, yes, regards below. But, every year on the salt, I have a zillion folk wander by and want to call the car a Tiger. I politely inform them that, No, it is an old Alpine body that was on the trailer headed for the crusher when I bought it. I also tell them that I prefer to just call it a Sunbeam not referring to either Alpines or Tigers. The only badging on the car is the "SUNBEAM" on the trunk lid. I want all Sunbeam owners to be affiliated with the efforts and that is the main reason I call the car the "Spirit of Sunbeam". The front of my fire suit says "Team Beam" and on the back it says "Spirit of Sunbeam" . I wanted everyone who owns an Alpine or Tiger to be a part of the effort even though they may not be there. I am not sure what motivates folk to call thier cars Algers or anything else than what it is. A 32 ford roadster with a chevy motor in it is still a 32 ford roadster. Or a Mustang from circa 1965 with mods making it nearly identical to a Shelby GT350 is still a Mustang, just updated. As I mentioned once, I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different model of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different models. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. Tom, thanks for the mention and letting me hijack your thread, lol mayf Tom Parker wrote: >SNIP > > >Some Rootes owners choose to re-engine their cars. Drmayf is a great example >here; he campaigns an Alpine at Bonneville, and it surely doesn't have a 4 >cylinder engine in it. Good for him, and good for the marque. > >Snip _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 10:07:35 2010 From: "Terry Morton" To: "Thomas Witt" , Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:46:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer Maybe it's really an $850 Tiger with a $26,000 Book of Norman! Not a bad deal:-) Terry. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Witt Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:50 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer Did anyone else notice the end of the ad? "The seller also has available a mint Book of Norman Vol. 1. for $850." I'm not sure if that is the going rate in this economy, or a good deal on a $1,500 book. My guess is that the book will probably be offered to the buyer first. But, you never know... . Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tmorton@bma1915.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 10:10:19 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: drmayf@mayfco.com, tkparker1941@gmail.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:50:19 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) In a message dated 8/5/2010 11:44:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drmayf@mayfco.com writes: I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different model of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different models. How about Chevelle and Corvette..........Chevette. Of course it hasn't been modified or doesn't look like either;-) _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 10:23:35 2010 From: mcdangerous@verizon.net To: clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 10:54:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would make it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore them, considering what it costs to buy one, even when it needs restoration? Is this the true market value, or is it just a temporary dip thanks to the economy? That's a Mk1A, right? Shouldn't that make it a bit more attractive when compared to Mk1s? What's the outlook for values? What's the current value and outlook for Mk2s? If this is the level of Tiger values, then I don't even understand how anyone can consider putting money into an Alpine to create a Tiger clone, considering that someone said in another thread that clones are bringing 50% of Tiger values. None of this makes sense to me... Please let me know what you think re. Thanks. M Aug 5, 2010 08:58:56 AM, clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com wrote: My BaT daily newsletter found this..pretty clean car. Comments at the bottom of the page are complimentary of Tigers in general, and suggestive of increasing value.. Wheels on it are pretty bad.sorry if it belongs to anyone on the list, but I don't like your wheel choice.rest of the car is great! Cullen http://bringatrailer.com/2010/08/05/bat-exclusive-1966-sunbeam-tiger/#more- _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 10:25:55 2010 From: drmayf To: CoolVT@aol.com Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 09:07:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) CoolVT@aol.com wrote: > ** > > In a message dated 8/5/2010 11:44:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > drmayf@mayfco.com writes: > > I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) > of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different > model > of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different > models. > > ** > *How about Chevelle and Corvette..........Chevette. Of course it > hasn't been modified or doesn't look like either;-)* Sorry, doesn't qualify by the stated rule I made above. A checvelle was not made into a corvette by adding corvette junk to it. Now vice versa. Chevette was and entire new product line from the maker. Score 6 those for thinking, lol... mayf _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 10:40:12 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Tom Parker , drmayf@mayfco.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) snip> I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. wrote: From: drmayf Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) To: "Tom Parker" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 8:14 AM Tom, yes, regards below. But, every year on the salt, I have a zillion folk wander by and want to call the car a Tiger. I politely inform them that, No, it is an old Alpine body that was on the trailer headed for the crusher when I bought it. I also tell them that I prefer to just call it a Sunbeam not referring to either Alpines or Tigers. The only badging on the car is the "SUNBEAM" on the trunk lid. I want all Sunbeam owners to be affiliated with the efforts and that is the main reason I call the car the "Spirit of Sunbeam". The front of my fire suit says "Team Beam" and on the back it says "Spirit of Sunbeam" . I wanted everyone who owns an Alpine or Tiger to be a part of the effort even though they may not be there. I am not sure what motivates folk to call thier cars Algers or anything else than what it is. A 32 ford roadster with a chevy motor in it is still a 32 ford roadster. Or a Mustang from circa 1965 with mods making it nearly identical to a Shelby GT350 is still a Mustang, just updated. As I mentioned once, I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different model of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different models. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. Tom, thanks for the mention and letting me hijack your thread, lol mayf Tom Parker wrote: > SNIP > > Some Rootes owners choose to re-engine their cars. Drmayf is a great example > here; he campaigns an Alpine at Bonneville, and it surely doesn't have a 4 > cylinder engine in it. Good for him, and good for the marque. > > Snip _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 10:41:41 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: drmayf@mayfco.com, alpines@autox.team.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:14:32 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Spirit of Sunbeam Salt Flats Plans Curious Mayf, What have you calculated the h.p needs to be to get you to 200mph? In a message dated 8/5/2010 12:09:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drmayf@mayfco.com writes: Well, time for me to inform all those who follow the Spirit of Sunbeam in it's quest to be the worlds fastest Sunbeam. The current top speed for a flying mile is now at 186.192 mph. Changes have been made to the car for this years activies. Oh first, we will not be at Speed Week in August. That event has become a happening and costs have skyrocketed beyond our means. Last year, we paid 1300 bucks for one hotel room for 6 nights. Instead we are going to World of Speed in September: same hotel but costs for the entire stay is 249 dollars. Mods to the car have been few. I mentioned that I built a simulator so that the electronic engine management systems could be run in situ without running the engine. That showed that the missing rpm was not an electronic issue. The car now has a new ice water to air intercooler for the charge air coming from the turbo. The water tank for that holds about 13 or 14 gallons of a mix of ice and water. Last year at WOS, the fuel tank developed a serious leak. The tank was in front of the engine and close enough to exhaust parts to cause worry. That tank was replaced by one that now resides in the trunk. I hand built the fuel cell to fit there. It also holds about a gallon more fuel. The area where the front mounted tank was located is now where the intercooler hangs out. I also changed from a draw through mass air flow meter to a blow through. The blow through is roughly twice the flow capacity and it is the same diameter as teh new turbo to intercooler to motor duct work. The installation is much cleaner than before. After the electronics simulations told me that the electronics were not at fault for lack of rpm, I looked at the data a lot and concluded that the two chinese made waste gates were not working correctly. I borrowed a Turbonetics RaceGate and installed it in place of the two foreign made ones. Control plumbing is way simplified as well by that move. I also slowed down the steering by a factor of 1.5. A short wheel base is subect to twitchy hands on the steering wheel, lol. I also had a dyno day that was nearly disastrous. I had purchased a couple of used police cruiser V rated tires, supposedly good to 149 mph. Inspection showed them to be good. But, on teh first hard pull on the dyno, I literally destroyed one of them! At 164 mph. Enough data was gained though to show that the new mass air flow meter was pretty close. For those who may venture to Wendover, UT in Septmeber, the meet starts on the 14th and runs through the 18th. We will arrive there on the 13th just to park the trailer and get the car out. For any that do come to watch, you are all welcome in out pit, we'll have cold drinks during the day and after days work is done a beer or two. Oh, the car now has two firsts! It has become the world fastest Tweecer ( an engine tuning piece) as well as having the fastest Performance Automatic AOD transmission. Those two with a buck fifty might get me a cup of coffee, lol... Any questions, just send me an email and I will do my best to answer them. mayf Spirit of Sunbeam World's Fastest Sunbeam (wannabe) Not an Alpine, Not a Tiger, just a Sunbeam _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 11:07:36 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "mcdangerous@verizon.net" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:46:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer It's not about the money. You either need a Tiger, or you don't. Having said that (in some jest, but that IS really what it's about), here are some opinions on the points you raised: - The 'value' of Mk1's vs. Mk1A's is probably in the other direction, if you ask anyone that does have a preference. Mk1A's (and Mk2's) were built with more of an eye to production cost compared to Mk1's, which is why they don't have round corners and leaded seams. - On the surface, $26k seems like a good deal for a clean, mostly-complete, running Tiger. There are probably a few things that need doing, and for the people that want them, the missing parts are going to cost some dough. If you go out to get a proper AC air cleaner and LAT70 wheels and new tires, then you'll be in for about $3k more. - Restoration is not a money making venture, at least not for the car owner, unless they are also the body shop and can get wholesale rates for everything. Buying the best chassis you can afford is always the key. Since it costs the same to do bodywork and get trim parts for an Alpine or a Tiger, you have to love your Alpine about twice as much to justify doing it from a dollars point of view. - As has been discussed, there are two kinds of Alpine V8 conversions. Those done by people who want Tiger performance without paying the premium to get a Tiger, and those done with intent to defraud a future buyer (which may or may not involve lifting the VIN plate and selected parts from a junked Tiger chassis). In either case, the cost of doing a complete body restoration with all new interior etc. can be far greater than the cost of the vehicle to start with especially if the car is very rough; however, a lot of people don't realize this at the outset and figure they can save a lot of money by starting with a chassis that cost them a few thousand less. - Tiger values and future outlook? Cars aren't stocks. Theo. > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mcdangerous@verizon.net > Sent: August 5, 2010 9:54 AM > To: clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com > Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer > > Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would > make it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore > them, considering what it costs to buy one, even when it needs > restoration? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 11:08:50 2010 From: "Peter Laurinaitis" To: , Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer re "That would make it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore them" most cars dont make economic sense to restore yourself and recover the value, unless its a rapidly appreciating car or high dollar so the relative cost of restoration costs incl labor are a much smaller portion of the value of the car, such as ferrari dinos, shelby's, etc. thats why they always say, "buy someone else's restoration"... i will have spent probably 60k on restoration of my mark 1a (i didnt have time to wrench on it myself given work schedule) on top of the 15k purchase price, (crazy when i think about it what i have into it, and like most things, i started out thinking i could do more work myself and spend a lot less, but thats another discussion) and im under no misconceptions that unless prices rise quickly for the next 5 years, regardless of how great the quality of the restoration, i will not get back what i put into the car for a long long time... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer > Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would make > it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore them, > considering what it costs to buy one, even when it needs restoration? Is > this the true market value, or is it just a temporary dip thanks to the > economy? That's a Mk1A, right? Shouldn't that make it a bit more > attractive when compared to Mk1s? What's the outlook for values? What's > the current value and outlook for Mk2s? If this is the level of Tiger > values, then I don't even understand how anyone can consider putting money > into an Alpine to create a Tiger clone, considering that someone said in > another thread that clones are bringing 50% of Tiger values. None of this > makes sense to me... Please let me know what you think re. Thanks. M _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 11:09:01 2010 From: "Jim" To: "'Steve Ralsten'" , "'Tom Parker'" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 09:51:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) "modifying an Alpine to V6 or V8 is fine. The only argument is when they remove the Alpine script and replace with Tiger script and try to pass the car off as something different than a modified Alpine. I have always thought only those falsified cars get the Alger name distinction" Sadly ( I think ), I've seen several 'Alpine V8's' up here in Canada and every single one had 'Tiger' script displayed ... Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ralsten Sent: August 5, 2010 9:12 AM To: Tom Parker; drmayf@mayfco.com Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) snip> I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. wrote: From: drmayf Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) To: "Tom Parker" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 8:14 AM Tom, yes, regards below. But, every year on the salt, I have a zillion folk wander by and want to call the car a Tiger. I politely inform them that, No, it is an old Alpine body that was on the trailer headed for the crusher when I bought it. I also tell them that I prefer to just call it a Sunbeam not referring to either Alpines or Tigers. The only badging on the car is the "SUNBEAM" on the trunk lid. I want all Sunbeam owners to be affiliated with the efforts and that is the main reason I call the car the "Spirit of Sunbeam". The front of my fire suit says "Team Beam" and on the back it says "Spirit of Sunbeam" . I wanted everyone who owns an Alpine or Tiger to be a part of the effort even though they may not be there. I am not sure what motivates folk to call thier cars Algers or anything else than what it is. A 32 ford roadster with a chevy motor in it is still a 32 ford roadster. Or a Mustang from circa 1965 with mods making it nearly identical to a Shelby GT350 is still a Mustang, just updated. As I mentioned once, I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different model of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different models. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. Tom, thanks for the mention and letting me hijack your thread, lol mayf Tom Parker wrote: > SNIP > > Some Rootes owners choose to re-engine their cars. Drmayf is a great example > here; he campaigns an Alpine at Bonneville, and it surely doesn't have a 4 > cylinder engine in it. Good for him, and good for the marque. > > Snip _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 11:27:26 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: "'Steve Ralsten'" , "'Tom Parker'" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:04:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) Yeah..I agree, usually "Algers" is what others refer to as a fake Tiger.......but Mike Schreiner does...he has early during this conversation ..." Proud Alger Owner in Florida" and I noted it mentally and thought to myself, " that's cool"...he is doing exactly what I was saying is appropriate, IMO... I guess the first time I saw "Alger" coined was Norms site or on TBON, is that its birthplace? I mean it makes sense from a vocab standpoint... -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ralsten Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:12 AM To: Tom Parker; drmayf@mayfco.com Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) snip> I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. wrote: From: drmayf Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) To: "Tom Parker" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 8:14 AM Tom, yes, regards below. But, every year on the salt, I have a zillion folk wander by and want to call the car a Tiger. I politely inform them that, No, it is an old Alpine body that was on the trailer headed for the crusher when I bought it. I also tell them that I prefer to just call it a Sunbeam not referring to either Alpines or Tigers. The only badging on the car is the "SUNBEAM" on the trunk lid. I want all Sunbeam owners to be affiliated with the efforts and that is the main reason I call the car the "Spirit of Sunbeam". The front of my fire suit says "Team Beam" and on the back it says "Spirit of Sunbeam" . I wanted everyone who owns an Alpine or Tiger to be a part of the effort even though they may not be there. I am not sure what motivates folk to call thier cars Algers or anything else than what it is. A 32 ford roadster with a chevy motor in it is still a 32 ford roadster. Or a Mustang from circa 1965 with mods making it nearly identical to a Shelby GT350 is still a Mustang, just updated. As I mentioned once, I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different model of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different models. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. Tom, thanks for the mention and letting me hijack your thread, lol mayf Tom Parker wrote: > SNIP > > Some Rootes owners choose to re-engine their cars. Drmayf is a great example > here; he campaigns an Alpine at Bonneville, and it surely doesn't have a 4 > cylinder engine in it. Good for him, and good for the marque. > > Snip _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 11:28:10 2010 From: "Thomas Witt" To: Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 10:10:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer >>>Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would >>>make it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore >>>them, ... Please let me know what you think<<< Well..., in 2000 I paid $3,500 ("use tax" rated) for my Tiger. It did require that I buy with it the replacement front clip, the hard top and $800 of unused parts from Sunbeam Specialties for an additional $1,600 ($5,100 total). I have replaced the front clip, all the lower sheet metal (including an inner sill) and removed just about every trace of rust. I've rebuilt the front suspension and added the Logan/Crawley improvements. I also rebuilt the rearend and its suspension. When I'm all done (should that day ever come - 10 years on jackstands) I'll have about $7,500 in the whole car with virtually everything rebuilt. So, "only" $26,000 or there about would be fabulous to me. But, as I have no intention of selling it in my lifetime "value" is just a number. In 2007 my house was worth about $700,000+. Today maybe $400,000-$450,000. It's all only on paper. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer > Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would make > it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore them, > considering what it costs to buy one, even when it needs restoration? Is > this the true market value, or is it just a temporary dip thanks to the > economy? That's a Mk1A, right? Shouldn't that make it a bit more > attractive when compared to Mk1s? What's the outlook for values? What's > the current value and outlook for Mk2s? If this is the level of Tiger > values, then I don't even understand how anyone can consider putting money > into an Alpine to create a Tiger clone, considering that someone said in > another thread that clones are bringing 50% of Tiger values. None of this > makes sense to me... Please let me know what you think re. Thanks. M > > Aug 5, 2010 08:58:56 AM, clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com wrote: > > My BaT daily newsletter found this..pretty clean car. Comments at the > bottom > of the page are complimentary of Tigers in general, and suggestive of > increasing value.. > > > > Wheels on it are pretty bad.sorry if it belongs to anyone on the list, but > I > don't like your wheel choice.rest of the car is great! > > > > Cullen > > > > > > http://bringatrailer.com/2010/08/05/bat-exclusive-1966-sunbeam-tiger/#more- > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@verizon.net > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3052 - Release Date: 08/05/10 06:35:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 11:56:03 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "drmayf@mayfco.com" , Tom Parker Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:20:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) What about Clevor engines? Sprites and Midgets are generally referred to collectively as Spridgets. - Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf > Sent: August 5, 2010 9:15 AM > To: Tom Parker > Cc: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) > > it nearly identical to a Shelby GT350 is still a Mustang, just updated. > As I mentioned once, I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) > of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different model > of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different > models. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an > Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 11:56:39 2010 From: Marc James Small To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:20:38 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Hot Rodding I am a red-blooded American boy, but I have not the slightest interest in hot rods of any sort. Stock is my interest whenever possible. Not to denigrate the interests of others, but just to correct an earlier statement that "every" American loves hot rods. This American does not. Marc msmall@aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 12:11:35 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mcdangerous@verizon.net, clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:43:47 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer I don't even understand how anyone can consider putting money into an Alpine to create a Tiger clone, considering that someone said in another thread that clones are bringing 50% of Tiger values. None of this makes sense to me... Please let me know what you think re. Thanks. M It makes sense if you pass it off as a Tiger:-) _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 12:11:45 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mcdangerous@verizon.net, clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:45:50 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would make it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore them, considering what it costs to buy one, even when it needs restoration? I wouldn't restore a Tiger with the expectation of recovering all of your investment. It's much cheaper to buy one already restored. The restorer will be the one to take a financial beating. Mark _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 12:33:10 2010 From: mcdangerous@verizon.net To: Theo.Smit@dynastream.com Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:10:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) But isn't that because (after the frog-eyed Sprite) all Austin Healey Sprites and MG Midgets were essentially the same car except for different badges and trim? I had a 1959 Frog-eyed (bug-eyed) Sprite at one time. I sold it to a journalist who took it to Barbados. Cool car. M Aug 5, 2010 12:57:15 PM, Theo.Smit@dynastream.com wrote: What about Clevor engines? Sprites and Midgets are generally referred to collectively as Spridgets. - Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf > Sent: August 5, 2010 9:15 AM > To: Tom Parker > Cc: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) > > it nearly identical to a Shelby GT350 is still a Mustang, just updated. > As I mentioned once, I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) > of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different model > of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different > models. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to name their car an > Alger, but, I do not understand why. But, I really don't care either. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 12:54:44 2010 From: mcdangerous@verizon.net To: Theo.Smit@dynastream.com Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:15:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer Any item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. But I don't care what anyone tells me, everyone cares what their car is worth, or might be worth in the future, even if they have no intention of ever selling it. Aug 5, 2010 11:47:10 AM, Theo.Smit@dynastream.com wrote: It's not about the money. You either need a Tiger, or you don't. Having said that (in some jest, but that IS really what it's about), here are some opinions on the points you raised: - The 'value' of Mk1's vs. Mk1A's is probably in the other direction, if you ask anyone that does have a preference. Mk1A's (and Mk2's) were built with more of an eye to production cost compared to Mk1's, which is why they don't have round corners and leaded seams. - On the surface, $26k seems like a good deal for a clean, mostly-complete, running Tiger. There are probably a few things that need doing, and for the people that want them, the missing parts are going to cost some dough. If you go out to get a proper AC air cleaner and LAT70 wheels and new tires, then you'll be in for about $3k more. - Restoration is not a money making venture, at least not for the car owner, unless they are also the body shop and can get wholesale rates for everything. Buying the best chassis you can afford is always the key. Since it costs the same to do bodywork and get trim parts for an Alpine or a Tiger, you have to love your Alpine about twice as much to justify doing it from a dollars point of view. - As has been discussed, there are two kinds of Alpine V8 conversions. Those done by people who want Tiger performance without paying the premium to get a Tiger, and those done with intent to defraud a future buyer (which may or may not involve lifting the VIN plate and selected parts from a junked Tiger chassis). In either case, the cost of doing a complete body restoration with all new interior etc. can be far greater than the cost of the vehicle to start with especially if the car is very rough; however, a lot of people don't realize this at the outset and figure they can save a lot of money by starting with a chassis that cost them a few thousand less. - Tiger values and future outlook? Cars aren't stocks. Theo. > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mcdangerous@verizon.net > Sent: August 5, 2010 9:54 AM > To: clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com > Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer > > Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would > make it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore > them, considering what it costs to buy one, even when it needs > restoration? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 13:21:17 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: michael king Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:01:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Tom, and Michael, Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tom. Now I "have" to answer the question. Michael is correct. There were many clock faces used by Smiths for Sunbeam Alpines and Tigers (all "dealer options). Bottom line: * The Sunbeam Tiger Mk I used Smiths CE 3030/00, which is in my car. The 3 and 9 are sideways, and the bottom timing adjust and time set are on the bottom sides, and the hands are red. Smiths CE 3030/00 Smiths CE 3131/01 In summary, The MkIA and MkII used Smiths CE 3131/01. The 3 and 9 are upright, and correct number for your car. Unfortunately, due to List space restrictions, only you and Michael King will get a directly sent version that does have the pictures. As an additional piece of information, these clocks were electric wind-up, and may not be working. Never fear, a solution is possible. A good instrument shop that deals in Smiths, can replace the mechanism with a quartz VDO guts in the original shell. The VDO movement is reported to be extremely accurate. Who knows, if mine fails, I'll have to consider this. Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com michael king wrote: > The MKII used the later model clock as per sunbeam alpine SV, this has the > smaller numbers with the 9 and 3 vertical. > > its smiths part #CE3131/01 > > On 5 August 2010 05:34, Tom Parker wrote: > > >> This is mainly a question for Steve Laifman, I think he's addressed it >> before; if anyone else knows please chip in: >> >> Steve, >> >> Which clock was used in the ' 67 Tiger 2? I know the diameter is 60 mm (@ 2 >> 3/8") and the hands are orange, but I think I read you mentioned a >> difference in the numbers. I can't find the original post. >> >> Tom >> _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 13:37:00 2010 From: arado7@sbcglobal.net To: Theo.Smit@dynastream.com, mcdangerous@verizon.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer --- On Thu, 8/5/10, mcdangerous@verizon.net wrote: Aug 5, 2010 11:47:10 AM, Theo.Smit@dynastream.com wrote: - The 'value' of Mk1's vs. Mk1A's is probably in the other direction, if you ask anyone that does have a preference. Mk1A's (and Mk2's) were built with more of an eye to production cost compared to Mk1's, which is why they don't have round corners and leaded seams. - On the surface, $26k seems like a good deal for a clean, mostly-complete, running Tiger. There are probably a few things that need doing, and for the people that want them, the missing parts are going to cost some dough. If you go out to get a proper AC air cleaner and LAT70 wheels and new tires, then you'll be in for about $3k more. - Restoration is not a money making venture, at least not for the car owner, unless they are also the body shop and can get wholesale rates for everything. Buying the best chassis you can afford is always the key. Since it costs the same to do bodywork and get trim parts for an Alpine or a Tiger, you have to love your Alpine about twice as much to justify doing it from a dollars point of view. - Tiger values and future outlook? Cars aren't stocks. Theo. some are.. That is why I bought Crossfire SRT6 rdstr for 25k. They perform well on street and in money gain.Very small supply and demand is growing. Gary B9472283 > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mcdangerous@verizon.net > Sent: August 5, 2010 9:54 AM > To: clarkwgriswold2nd@gmail.com > Cc: TIGERS@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer > > Is the value of such a clean Mk1A Tiger really only $26k? That would > make it really hard to justify putting any money into Tigers to restore > them, considering what it costs to buy one, even when it needs > restoration? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/arado7@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 13:50:47 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tom Parker Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:25:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) Algers Tom, I agree that a specified "Alger" is OK, and fun. However it's value is not the same as an original Tiger, and I have seen many Tigers that are either maintained or restored. Different strokes for different folks. As a "fer instance" look at the auction selling prices for the original cars and the "Tribute" cars commonly seen at Mecum Auctions on HD Theater cable channel. The answer is obvious, original gets the bucks. However, there are many folks who want to have a "homage" car to get the fun of the performance added. Unless the car is misrepresented on sale, you get the enjoyment you seek. If it is misrepresented, a law suit is likely. "Caveat Emptor" Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Tom Parker wrote: > I've owned my Tiger for almost thirty-five years, and before about 2000 I > had no idea what I had, much less what an Alger was. The internet has > changed everything; information once mostly hidden is now easy to find. > > Alpines are common compared to Tigers, and they are valued accordingly. I > don't agree that it would be nice if all cars were restored to their > original glory. Frankly, it isn't going to happen. Ever. Americans build > hot rods. We always have, and the automotive industry is better for it. > > Some Rootes owners choose to re-engine their cars. Drmayf is a great example > here; he campaigns an Alpine at Bonneville, and it surely doesn't have a 4 > cylinder engine in it. Good for him, and good for the marque. > > So if someone wants to make a Hot Rod out of an Alpine, in my opinion, have > at it. It's a fun car to drive, and a chalenge to work on. Algers are fairly > valued - typically about half the price of a "real" Tiger; the difference > isn't the workmanship, by the way, it's who did it - the factory or an > individual builder. Nothing more. > > Let the purists fret over every but, bolt, and washer. Good for them, too. > For me, I'm looking forward to just being able to drive the Kitty again. > When it's sold all the original parts'll go with it... in boxes. > > Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 13:50:55 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Beamclub Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger marked Alpine and Tiger value I once found a Tiger in a shop close to me here in southern IL. I was waiting to talk to someone about an Alpine back against the fence row. The car had its hood up, had a Tiger VIN but had Alpine in place of Tiger on the outside, it was complete, including outside stainless. Everything I could find said it was a real Tiger. I had someone try to steal my Tiger in Cabondale, IL once (home of southern IL. university)- they had cut the wires on the ignition switch- glad they didn't know the easy way to start a Tiger or I would have had more problems than twisting some wires together to get home- I'm sure the kids that where standing around behind my date and I where the culprits but that was many years before video cameras. The Tiger marked Alpine was about 7 miles west of Carbondale and perhaps the Alpine chrome was to deter would be thieves. As for the 26 k for a Tiger, I think a Tiger in good to excellent condition can bring 30 easily. I'm curious what 1 part at a time would net a person on epay? IF you buy a rough Tiger and have Doug Jennings restore(prior to retirement) it, by the time you pay for his labor you will be knocking on over 20k and thats if the dipper didn't eat to many holes into the body/frame. Material is outrageous and paint must have gold blended into each gallon and there is still all the little things like brakes and steering, the front suspension needing rebuilt and on and on. Soon your investment is over the 26K mark and does a person ever stop finding new items to make improvements. I have a want list that goes over or close to 10K w/ me doing all the labor, except building the striker engine and I think I could do that if I had the blue prints from someone elses build card. TtT _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 14:55:37 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tiger's Den Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:28:53 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Save your poop, and fuel your car! Tigers, Just read in the LA Times that bio-scientists are using algae and e-coli bacteria to create a combined organism that creates diesel fuel. No oil required. Read it, and save your poop, and some algae from your fish tank. With a little lab work you can create your own diesel fuel !!!! Screw the Arabs oil blackmail. Read this LA Times article! http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-biofuels-20100805,0,7105447.story <;-) (But seriously, it does work at a laboratory basis now. On the other hand, BP may be hiring all the scientists!) Standard Oil has a simpler concept - hire some assassins - save money. Steve -- Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 15:28:29 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Beamclub , Tony Somebody Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger marked Alpine and Tiger value >>>I once found a Tiger in a shop close to me here in southern IL. I was waiting to talk to someone about an Alpine back against the fence row. The car had its hood up, had a Tiger VIN but had Alpine in place of Tiger on the outside, it was complete, including outside stainless. Everything I could find said it was a real Tiger. <<<< It was probably an Alpine 260. Thats what my car is. It is a real Tiger in every way but was sold in either France or Germany where Rootes was not allowed use of the Tiger name. They are badged as Alpine 260 and if proper, carry Alpine script. The VIN would read LROFE rather than LRXFE. Alpine 260 was going to be the cars proper name but it was changed to Tiger at or right before the NY Autoshow debut. Cullen McCann also owns one. Currently 53 known to exist. http://www.sunbeamtiger.co.uk/catswhiskers/CW68alpine260.htm _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 17:11:00 2010 From: Tom Parker To: Steve Laifman Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 18:33:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Thanks, Steve! I have a Mark 1 clock on the way to fill the hole in my new dash, and when I have the speedometer calibrated I'll ask Peter at Nisonger to convert it to quartz. I think he does that. There are "small number" clocks for sale in England, but the ones I saw have white hands. Maybe Peter can paint them... Again, the depth of knowledge on this site is amazing. Thanks to all. Tom On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Steve Laifman wrote: > Tom, and Michael, > > Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tom. Now I "have" to answer the > question. > > Michael is correct. > > There were many clock faces used by Smiths for Sunbeam Alpines and Tigers > (all "dealer options). Bottom line: > > - The Sunbeam Tiger Mk I used Smiths CE 3030/00, which is in my car. > The 3 and 9 are sideways, and the bottom timing adjust and time set are on > the bottom sides, and the hands are red. > > Smiths CE 3030/00 > > Smiths CE 3131/01 > > In summary, > > The MkIA and MkII used Smiths CE 3131/01. The 3 and 9 are upright, and > correct number for your car. > > Unfortunately, due to List space restrictions, only you and Michael King > will get a directly sent version that does have the pictures. > > As an additional piece of information, these clocks were electric wind-up, > and may not be working. Never fear, a solution is possible. A good > instrument shop that deals in Smiths, can replace the mechanism with a > quartz VDO guts in the original shell. The VDO movement is reported to be > extremely accurate. Who knows, if mine fails, I'll have to consider this. > > Steve Laifman > > Editor > > http://TigersUnited.com > > > michael king wrote: > > The MKII used the later model clock as per sunbeam alpine SV, this has the > smaller numbers with the 9 and 3 vertical. > > its smiths part #CE3131/01 > > On 5 August 2010 05:34, Tom Parker wrote: > > > > This is mainly a question for Steve Laifman, I think he's addressed it > before; if anyone else knows please chip in: > > Steve, > > Which clock was used in the ' 67 Tiger 2? I know the diameter is 60 mm (@ 2 > 3/8") and the hands are orange, but I think I read you mentioned a > difference in the numbers. I can't find the original post. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of CE_3030_00.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of CE_3131_01.jpg] _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 17:13:06 2010 From: "csx2282" To: Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:53:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Save your poop, and fuel your car! Or this simpler alternative http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10884539 Roland > Tigers, > > Just read in the LA Times that bio-scientists are using algae and e-coli > bacteria to create a combined organism that creates diesel fuel. No oil > required. > > Read it, and save your poop, and some algae from your fish tank. With a > little lab work you can create your own diesel fuel !!!! > > Screw the Arabs oil blackmail. Read this LA Times article! > > http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-biofuels-20100805,0,7105447.story > > <;-) > > (But seriously, it does work at a laboratory basis now. On the other > hand, BP may be hiring all the scientists!) Standard Oil has a simpler > concept - hire some assassins - save money. > > Steve > > -- > > Steve Laifman > > Editor > > http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 17:28:56 2010 From: "Mountjoy" To: Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:10:07 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Alger Anyone know of Alger owners out there with a personalized license plate "ALGER" ? Just curious. Darrell _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 17:42:15 2010 From: michael king To: mcdangerous@verizon.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:29:47 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer On 6 August 2010 01:54, wrote: > Shouldn't that make it a bit more attractive when compared to Mk1s? > What's the outlook for values? What's the current value and outlook for > Mk2s? If this is the level of Tiger values, then I don't even understand > how anyone can consider putting money into an Alpine to create a Tiger > clone, considering that someone said in another thread that clones are > bringing 50% of Tiger values. None of this makes sense to me... Please let > me know what you think re. Thanks. M > Most of us are in this for fun.. not trying to make a $... its rare you ever see the money you put into your car back unless you are very lucky. The value difference between MKI's and IA's is not much.. and its just personal preference.. for me the early MKI's with leaded seams and hood boxes are about as nice a body as you get.. the cheaper MKIA style has some practicality but is not as classy (rootes chepened the car by leaving joints exposed, softtop bag is easier to use but not as elegant and the seat design on the MKI's was better looking and nicer.. but more expensive.. so out went the seperate cusion backrest) MKII's are worth more because of the raroty.. and only MKII's earlier cars with MKII items will not be worth more than a normal MKI .. and in theory.. less than a correct MKI as the real value always lies in a car with history or that is factory stock. Speculation is generally what ruins the market for real enthusiasts.. by this attitude ALL Tigers would be gone as they were very cheap beaters 20 years ago... and alpines cost about the same to restore as a Tiger yet will not yeild 50% of a Tiger value.. or even that of a clone, so by this logic people should just walk away from them. These are not about money,,, they are about enjoyment. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 17:56:15 2010 From: michael king To: Mountjoy Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:39:10 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger I always wondered if someone would actually make an alger badge like on norms site.. would be cool. As for algers.. the guy i bought my Tiger off owns a race Tiger.. he also was in the process of building an alger after he sold me my car. He finshed it last year.. he said that after restoring the tiger he was to carefulw ith it and wasnt as much fun. He built the alger so he could modify it the way he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the "alpine" scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not trying to fool anyone. On 6 August 2010 09:10, Mountjoy wrote: > Anyone know of Alger owners out there with a personalized license plate > "ALGER" ? Just curious. > Darrell > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 18:28:18 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: michael.s.king@gmail.com, mcdangerous@verizon.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 20:03:33 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger on Bring a Trailer Would we turn money over to FFG before we have a signed agreement with them? In a message dated 8/5/2010 7:42:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, michael.s.king@gmail.com writes: On 6 August 2010 01:54, wrote: > Shouldn't that make it a bit more attractive when compared to Mk1s? > What's the outlook for values? What's the current value and outlook for > Mk2s? If this is the level of Tiger values, then I don't even understand > how anyone can consider putting money into an Alpine to create a Tiger > clone, considering that someone said in another thread that clones are > bringing 50% of Tiger values. None of this makes sense to me... Please let > me know what you think re. Thanks. M > Most of us are in this for fun.. not trying to make a $... its rare you ever see the money you put into your car back unless you are very lucky. The value difference between MKI's and IA's is not much.. and its just personal preference.. for me the early MKI's with leaded seams and hood boxes are about as nice a body as you get.. the cheaper MKIA style has some practicality but is not as classy (rootes chepened the car by leaving joints exposed, softtop bag is easier to use but not as elegant and the seat design on the MKI's was better looking and nicer.. but more expensive.. so out went the seperate cusion backrest) MKII's are worth more because of the raroty.. and only MKII's earlier cars with MKII items will not be worth more than a normal MKI .. and in theory.. less than a correct MKI as the real value always lies in a car with history or that is factory stock. Speculation is generally what ruins the market for real enthusiasts.. by this attitude ALL Tigers would be gone as they were very cheap beaters 20 years ago... and alpines cost about the same to restore as a Tiger yet will not yeild 50% of a Tiger value.. or even that of a clone, so by this logic people should just walk away from them. These are not about money,,, they are about enjoyment. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 18:42:09 2010 From: "Mountjoy" To: "michael king" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:18:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Wouldn't that be cool ? I'd love to see that badge !! I wonder how much tooling would cost ? As for the guy you got your Tiger from, good for him ! Darrell ----- Original Message ----- From: michael king To: Mountjoy Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger I always wondered if someone would actually make an alger badge like on norms site.. would be cool. As for algers.. the guy i bought my Tiger off owns a race Tiger.. he also was in the process of building an alger after he sold me my car. He finshed it last year.. he said that after restoring the tiger he was to carefulw ith it and wasnt as much fun. He built the alger so he could modify it the way he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the "alpine" scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not trying to fool anyone. On 6 August 2010 09:10, Mountjoy wrote: Anyone know of Alger owners out there with a personalized license plate "ALGER" ? Just curious. Darrell _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 18:43:27 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Mountjoy , michael king Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger From: michael king Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger To: "Mountjoy" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 4:39 PM I always wondered if someone would actually make an alger badge like on norms site.. would be cool. I'm sure Rick would get it made if anyone really wanted it. My Alpine 260 had fender badges but was missing the trunk badge. Rick got one made for me. Steve _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 18:44:29 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tony Somebody Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 17:28:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger marked Alpine and Tiger value Tony, The name "Tiger" has copyright in Germany and France, So it was re-badged and sold as as an "Alpine 260" There also were South African assembled Tigers, with the Tiger name. Norm Miller provided the details in his TBON book. Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Tony Somebody wrote: > I once found a Tiger in a shop close to me here in southern IL. I was waiting > to talk to someone about an Alpine back against the fence row. The car had its > hood up, had a Tiger VIN but had Alpine in place of Tiger on the outside, it > was complete, including outside stainless. Everything I could find said it was > a real Tiger. I had someone try to steal my Tiger in Cabondale, IL once (home > of southern IL. university)- they had cut the wires on the ignition switch- > glad they didn't know the easy way to start a Tiger or I would have had more > problems than twisting some wires together to get home- I'm sure the kids that > where standing around behind my date and I where the culprits but that was > many years before video cameras. The Tiger marked Alpine was about 7 miles > west of Carbondale and perhaps the Alpine chrome was to deter would be > thieves. As for the 26 k for a Tiger, I think a Tiger in good to excellent > condition can bring 30 easily. I'm curious what > 1 part at a time would net a person on epay? IF you buy a rough Tiger and > have Doug Jennings restore(prior to retirement) it, by the time you pay for > his labor you will be knocking on over 20k and thats if the dipper didn't eat > to many holes into the body/frame. Material is outrageous and paint must have > gold blended into each gallon and there is still all the little things like > brakes and steering, the front suspension needing rebuilt and on and on. Soon > your investment is over the 26K mark and does a person ever stop finding new > items to make improvements. I have a want list that goes over or close to 10K > w/ me doing all the labor, except building the striker engine and I think I > could do that if I had the blue prints from someone elses build card. > TtT > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/slaifman@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 19:11:24 2010 From: "Mountjoy" To: "Steve Ralsten" , "michael king" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:53:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Hmmm... I wonder if he would consider.... d. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ralsten To: Mountjoy ; michael king Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger From: michael king Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger To: "Mountjoy" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 4:39 PM I always wondered if someone would actually make an alger badge like on norms site.. would be cool. I'm sure Rick would get it made if anyone really wanted it. My Alpine 260 had fender badges but was missing the trunk badge. Rick got one made for me. Steve _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 19:25:31 2010 From: "Teepen, Jere" To: "drmayf@mayfco.com" , "CoolVT@aol.com" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:03:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) How about an AC Ace with a Ford V-8? Instant Cobra? -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:07 AM To: CoolVT@aol.com Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) CoolVT@aol.com wrote: > ** > > In a message dated 8/5/2010 11:44:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > drmayf@mayfco.com writes: > > I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) > of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different > model > of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different > models. > > ** > *How about Chevelle and Corvette..........Chevette. Of course it > hasn't been modified or doesn't look like either;-)* Sorry, doesn't qualify by the stated rule I made above. A checvelle was not made into a corvette by adding corvette junk to it. Now vice versa. Chevette was and entire new product line from the maker. Score 6 those for thinking, lol... mayf _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 20:14:40 2010 From: drmayf To: "Teepen, Jere" Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:28:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) This one might qualify. Has it been done? Has anyone taken an AC ACE and installed all the items that make a Cobra a Cobra and called their new Car an AC Cobra? While this isn't teh same thing as two different cars made by the same company and then having parts from one added to the other and calling it an Alger. Close but not yet quite the same. mayf Teepen, Jere wrote: >How about an AC Ace with a Ford V-8? Instant Cobra? > >-----Original Message----- >From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:07 AM >To: CoolVT@aol.com >Cc: tigers@autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) > >CoolVT@aol.com wrote: > > > >>** >> >>In a message dated 8/5/2010 11:44:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>drmayf@mayfco.com writes: >> >> I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) >> of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different >> model >> of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different >> models. >> >>** >>*How about Chevelle and Corvette..........Chevette. Of course it >>hasn't been modified or doesn't look like either;-)* >> >> > >Sorry, doesn't qualify by the stated rule I made above. A checvelle was >not made into a corvette by adding corvette junk to it. Now vice versa. >Chevette was and entire new product line from the maker. Score 6 those >for thinking, lol... > >mayf _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 20:17:09 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: csx2282 , Tiger's Den Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:41:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Save your poop, and fuel your car! Roland, An interesting project, but not new. During WWII, with limited access to petroleum, the French and Germans were driving their cars with a cloth bag on top of the car, filling it with feces, and driving. As heard it, it was quite a bit smelly, but I wasn't there. /*" The researchers, at South San Francisco-based biotechnology company LS9 Inc., created their biological hydrocarbon factory using genes from water-dwelling blue-green **algae that naturally make tiny amounts of the fuel. They transplanted the **genes into E. coli and, with a few more genetic tweaks, adjusted the bug's metabolism so it churned out 100 times more fuel than the algae did." */* http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-biofuels-20100805,0,7105447.story* Sounds like the e-coli bacteria is an engineered strain, and not directly from excrement. Read the referenced extract. And NO, I am not converting my TIGER! Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com csx2282 wrote: > Or this simpler alternative http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10884539 > > Roland > >> Tigers, >> >> Just read in the LA Times that bio-scientists are using algae and e-coli >> bacteria to create a combined organism that creates diesel fuel. No oil >> required. >> >> Read it, and save your poop, and some algae from your fish tank. With a >> little lab work you can create your own diesel fuel !!!! >> >> Screw the Arabs oil blackmail. Read this LA Times article! >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-biofuels-20100805,0,7105447.story >> >> >> <;-) >> >> (But seriously, it does work at a laboratory basis now. On the other >> hand, BP may be hiring all the scientists!) Standard Oil has a simpler >> concept - hire some assassins - save money. >> >> Steve >> >> -- >> >> Steve Laifman >> >> Editor >> >> http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 20:42:53 2010 From: "Teepen, Jere" To: "drmayf@mayfco.com" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:47:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) AC made the Ace and Cobras. Instead of the CSX prefix as on the Shelby Cobras, AC made COB prefix car for the European market. Closer? -----Original Message----- From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf@mayfco.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:29 PM To: Teepen, Jere Cc: CoolVT@aol.com; tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) This one might qualify. Has it been done? Has anyone taken an AC ACE and installed all the items that make a Cobra a Cobra and called their new Car an AC Cobra? While this isn't teh same thing as two different cars made by the same company and then having parts from one added to the other and calling it an Alger. Close but not yet quite the same. mayf Teepen, Jere wrote: >How about an AC Ace with a Ford V-8? Instant Cobra? > >-----Original Message----- >From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:07 AM >To: CoolVT@aol.com >Cc: tigers@autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) > >CoolVT@aol.com wrote: _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 20:43:47 2010 From: Jeffrey Nichols To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 18:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Buyer Beware For Sure "The admonition I would issue is that as more newbies learn more about Tigers and Alpines, the TAC teams,, and availability of club members to inspect prospective purchases on their behalf, folks selling cars they're not completely honest about are in for a shock. Seller beware. " I was reading an early 80's copy of "Shelby American" and there is an article concerning the restoration of a Tiger. The author bought the Tiger several years previous and decided to have a well known Alpine/Tiger restorer restore the car. Well, the restorer said the frame was too far gone to use and he just happened to have an extra frame to use in the restoration. The article doesn't say if the extra frame was Tiger or Alpine. A few months later, the car was delivered. The new owner makes a comments about using a hammer to bash out the floorboard and transmission tunnel to fit the engine. The car's VIN is listed in Norm's web site as a Tiger but not listed as being TAC'ed. I'm sure the owner believes he had a genuine Tiger even with the "replacement frame". He may have sold it to someone else with confidence that it is a real Tiger. I suppose no one will ever know if it is a real Tiger until a person with expert knowledge checks the car out. Then there may be a surprise for the owner. Jeff _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 20:56:26 2010 From: "csx2282" To: "Steve Laifman" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 19:18:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Save your poop, and fuel your car! Steve, As I said, simpler. Guess I should have added the word technology. Cow methane is also being used in a similar manner, though maybe not to power cars. I did read the Times article. I'm pretty sure I saw this featured on a local news program a few months back. I do recall a reference to "green slime". It's a local company. Roland ----- Original Message ----- To: csx2282 ; Tiger's Den Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Save your poop, and fuel your car! Roland, An interesting project, but not new. During WWII, with limited access to petroleum, the French and Germans were driving their cars with a cloth bag on top of the car, filling it with feces, and driving. As heard it, it was quite a bit smelly, but I wasn't there. " The researchers, at South San Francisco-based biotechnology company LS9 Inc., created their biological hydrocarbon factory using genes from water-dwelling blue-green algae that naturally make tiny amounts of the fuel. They transplanted the genes into E. coli and, with a few more genetic tweaks, adjusted the bug's metabolism so it churned out 100 times more fuel than the algae did." http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-biofuels-20100805,0,7105447.stor y Sounds like the e-coli bacteria is an engineered strain, and not directly from excrement. Read the referenced extract. And NO, I am not converting my TIGER! Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com csx2282 wrote: Or this simpler alternative http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10884539 Roland Tigers, Just read in the LA Times that bio-scientists are using algae and e-coli bacteria to create a combined organism that creates diesel fuel. No oil required. Read it, and save your poop, and some algae from your fish tank. With a little lab work you can create your own diesel fuel !!!! Screw the Arabs oil blackmail. Read this LA Times article! http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-biofuels-20100805,0,7105447. story <;-) (But seriously, it does work at a laboratory basis now. On the other hand, BP may be hiring all the scientists!) Standard Oil has a simpler concept - hire some assassins - save money. Steve -- Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 20:58:17 2010 From: michael king To: drmayf@mayfco.com Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:29:07 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) This has been done several times. and in several itterations. There are early aces.. with the slightly earlier style ace body than the conbra had that have had the "cobra" parts fitted. There are the correct body Aces that have had the cobra parts fitted.. thouhg the guards have not been lipped as per cobra. There are AC Acea coupes that have cobraised.. there are Ac's that were rebuilt by autocraft (AC cars in the 80's) that were converted to cobra spec... ultimately.. none of them are cobras from the original run of cars. On 6 August 2010 11:28, drmayf wrote: > This one might qualify. Has it been done? Has anyone taken an AC ACE and > installed all the items that make a Cobra a Cobra and called their new Car > an AC Cobra? While this isn't teh same thing as two different cars made by > the same company and then having parts from one added to the other and > calling it an Alger. Close but not yet quite the same. > > > mayf > > Teepen, Jere wrote: > > How about an AC Ace with a Ford V-8? Instant Cobra? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] >> On Behalf Of drmayf >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:07 AM >> To: CoolVT@aol.com >> Cc: tigers@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) >> >> CoolVT@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >>> ** >>> In a message dated 8/5/2010 11:44:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> drmayf@mayfco.com writes: >>> >>> I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) >>> of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different >>> model >>> of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different >>> models. >>> >>> ** *How about Chevelle and Corvette..........Chevette. Of course it >>> hasn't been modified or doesn't look like either;-)* >>> >>> >> >> Sorry, doesn't qualify by the stated rule I made above. A checvelle was >> not made into a corvette by adding corvette junk to it. Now vice versa. >> Chevette was and entire new product line from the maker. Score 6 those for >> thinking, lol... >> >> mayf >> > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 21:18:33 2010 From: To: Mountjoy , michael king Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 19:58:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger ---- michael king wrote: >He built the alger so he could modify it the way > he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... > > I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many > tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the "alpine" > scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not trying > to fool anyone. That is not an Alger. It is a an Alpine with an engine transplant. An Alger is an Alpine body with all the parts made to look exactly like a Tiger. When being sold it is advertized as a Tiger, Ask the owner what he has and he answers Tiger. That is an Alger and the reason they are held in low esteem by Tiger owners. The essence of Alger is intent to deceive. Rootes did us no favors with the weak VIN identification elements on Alpines and Tigers. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 22:12:20 2010 From: "Mike Michels" To: "'Tom Parker'" , "'Steve Laifman'" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 20:38:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock For those looking to plug the "rootes group" hole in the dash with a reasonable alternative to finding an original clock, CAT sells a replica with a quartz movement. I have one and it looks great and keeps perfect time. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tom Parker Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:33 PM To: Steve Laifman Cc: LIST TIGER Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Thanks, Steve! I have a Mark 1 clock on the way to fill the hole in my new dash, and when I have the speedometer calibrated I'll ask Peter at Nisonger to convert it to quartz. I think he does that. There are "small number" clocks for sale in England, but the ones I saw have white hands. Maybe Peter can paint them... Again, the depth of knowledge on this site is amazing. Thanks to all. Tom On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Steve Laifman wrote: > Tom, and Michael, > > Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tom. Now I "have" to answer the > question. > > Michael is correct. > > There were many clock faces used by Smiths for Sunbeam Alpines and Tigers > (all "dealer options). Bottom line: > > - The Sunbeam Tiger Mk I used Smiths CE 3030/00, which is in my car. > The 3 and 9 are sideways, and the bottom timing adjust and time set are on > the bottom sides, and the hands are red. > > Smiths CE 3030/00 > > Smiths CE 3131/01 > > In summary, > > The MkIA and MkII used Smiths CE 3131/01. The 3 and 9 are upright, and > correct number for your car. > > Unfortunately, due to List space restrictions, only you and Michael King > will get a directly sent version that does have the pictures. > > As an additional piece of information, these clocks were electric wind-up, > and may not be working. Never fear, a solution is possible. A good > instrument shop that deals in Smiths, can replace the mechanism with a > quartz VDO guts in the original shell. The VDO movement is reported to be > extremely accurate. Who knows, if mine fails, I'll have to consider this. > > Steve Laifman > > Editor > > http://TigersUnited.com > > > michael king wrote: > > The MKII used the later model clock as per sunbeam alpine SV, this has the > smaller numbers with the 9 and 3 vertical. > > its smiths part #CE3131/01 > > On 5 August 2010 05:34, Tom Parker wrote: > > > > This is mainly a question for Steve Laifman, I think he's addressed it > before; if anyone else knows please chip in: > > Steve, > > Which clock was used in the ' 67 Tiger 2? I know the diameter is 60 mm (@ 2 > 3/8") and the hands are orange, but I think I read you mentioned a > difference in the numbers. I can't find the original post. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of CE_3030_00.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of CE_3131_01.jpg] _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mmichels@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 22:12:40 2010 From: "Mike Michels" To: "'Allan Ballard'" , Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 20:41:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool Dynamat definitely works. Also if you need to seal all the holes and crevices on the firewall, 3M Rope Caulk, sold be Eastwood, works very well. Comes in strips, and is a bituminous black product that stays flexible and easily molded or removed if necessary later on. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allan Ballard Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:29 AM To: tigers@autox.team.net List Tiger Subject: [Tigers] Keeping cockpit cool The cockpit of my Tiger is quite warm. It was very hot as "found" but a new shifter boot and a patch to a small hole in the floor helped tremendously. Also I've filled two firewall holes with grommets, another big help. But still it's warmer than my Alpine, a lot warmer... Some of the heat must penetrate old grommets that have wires running through them so that the grommets are not solid. That will have to stay "as is" for a while--although spray-foam insulation might help the areas where those grommets are split to accomodate the item passing through. Any ideas where is the heat coming from... and how to stop it? Maybe it's coming through the floor! The heat might be a big plus in the cold months, but in a Georgia August.... Allan Ballard Atlanta, GA _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mmichels@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 22:41:26 2010 From: "Mountjoy" To: , "michael king" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:21:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Good point, Eric ! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Mountjoy" ; "michael king" Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger > > ---- michael king wrote: >>He built the alger so he could modify it the way >> he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... >> >> I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than >> many >> tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the >> "alpine" >> scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not >> trying >> to fool anyone. > > > That is not an Alger. It is a an Alpine with an engine transplant. > > An Alger is an Alpine body with all the parts made to look exactly like a > Tiger. When being sold it is advertized as a Tiger, > Ask the owner what he has and he answers Tiger. > > That is an Alger and the reason they are held in low esteem by Tiger > owners. The essence of Alger is intent to deceive. > Rootes did us no favors with the weak VIN identification elements on > Alpines and Tigers. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 22:55:40 2010 From: Sandy Ganz To: Steve Laifman , Tiger's Den Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Save your poop, and fuel your car! Sounds like the Blue Green Algae stuff that has been around for a while. Gale Banks (Mr. Diesel as I'll call him) is all about that stuff. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Laifman To: Tiger's Den Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 1:28:53 PM Subject: [Tigers] Save your poop, and fuel your car! Tigers, Just read in the LA Times that bio-scientists are using algae and e-coli bacteria to create a combined organism that creates diesel fuel. No oil required. Read it, and save your poop, and some algae from your fish tank. With a little lab work you can create your own diesel fuel !!!! Screw the Arabs oil blackmail. Read this LA Times article! http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-biofuels-20100805,0,7105447.story <;-) (But seriously, it does work at a laboratory basis now. On the other hand, BP may be hiring all the scientists!) Standard Oil has a simpler concept - hire some assassins - save money. Steve -- Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sganz@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 23:10:47 2010 From: Sandy Ganz To: drmayf@mayfco.com, CoolVT@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Spirit of Sunbeam Salt Flats Plans Isn't the answer just MORE :) 550hp under boost, you should be close to that by now. I would say if it wasn't at altitude and likely hot a nice stroker motor and a carb on pump gas can work those numbers these days ;). Low tensions rings and a vacuum pump should be the next thing you try (Hint at what I'm going to try next). Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: drmayf To: CoolVT@aol.com Cc: alpines@autox.team.net; tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 2:35:37 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Spirit of Sunbeam Salt Flats Plans About 550 hp. Been having boost issue apparently becaus erecorded boost is way low. Have been running up against aero wall with the power I have been making. Changed some of that this year so should make the power (said with fingers crossed). mayf CoolVT@aol.com wrote: > *Curious Mayf,* > *What have you calculated the h.p needs to be to get you to 200mph?* > In a message dated 8/5/2010 12:09:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >drmayf@mayfco.com writes: > > Well, time for me to inform all those who follow the Spirit of > Sunbeam > in it's quest to be the worlds fastest Sunbeam. The current top > speed > for a flying mile is now at 186.192 mph. Changes have been made > to the > car for this years activies. Oh first, we will not be at Speed > Week in > August. That event has become a happening and costs have skyrocketed > beyond our means. Last year, we paid 1300 bucks for one hotel > room for > 6 nights. Instead we are going to World of Speed in September: same > hotel but costs for the entire stay is 249 dollars. Mods to the car > have been few. I mentioned that I built a simulator so that the > el > snip _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sganz@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 23:10:59 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: e.coiner@cox.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger It isn't that it really matter but I disagree. An Alger is an Alpine with a V8 engine and has been for many years. I'm sure Norm coined the phrase but you have to recall that at one point in time it wasn't wort the investment to pay a restoration shop to fix a rusted out Tiger when a nice Alpine was available and for lots less, Doug and I'm sure Dale on the left Coast, perhaps Tiger Tom and I believe Mr.Witt- anyway, another Pa. chap who restored Tigers built some Algers BUT I can only speak about Doug as he was the only person I had give me a price to Algerize my rusty Mk1A. He refereed to the car as an Alger and I would think he is in the top 5 most knowledgeable Sunbeam people in the USA and perhaps the world. I'm sure he has restored more cars than anyone over his career. So An Alger is an Alger BUT how it is presented is what separates it from other Algers. IMO of course. regards, TtT --- On Thu, 8/5/10, e.coiner@cox.net wrote: From: e.coiner@cox.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger To: "Mountjoy" , "michael king" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 9:58 PM ---- michael king wrote: >He built the alger so he could modify it the way > he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... > > I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many > tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the "alpine" > scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not trying > to fool anyone. That is not an Alger. It is a an Alpine with an engine transplant. An Alger is an Alpine body with all the parts made to look exactly like a Tiger. When being sold it is advertized as a Tiger, Ask the owner what he has and he answers Tiger. That is an Alger and the reason they are held in low esteem by Tiger owners. The essence of Alger is intent to deceive. Rootes did us no favors with the weak VIN identification elements on Alpines and Tigers. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 23:14:30 2010 From: "Jim" To: , "'Mountjoy'" , "'michael king'" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 21:48:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Well...speaking of... an Alger came on e-Bay today... they call it a Sunbeam Tiger 'conversion' but, along with a lot of Tiger bits, it also has a Tiger VIN plate on it ! I see that VIN# ( B382000046 ) is listed in the registry... I wonder if Norm has it noted as 'junked'? ...or? So... the winner of the auction will know that it's a 'conversion' but could sure be tempted to try and re-sell it as 'real' ... Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of e.coiner@cox.net Sent: August 5, 2010 7:59 PM To: Mountjoy; michael king Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger ---- michael king wrote: >He built the alger so he could modify it the way > he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... > > I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many > tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the "alpine" > scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not trying > to fool anyone. That is not an Alger. It is a an Alpine with an engine transplant. An Alger is an Alpine body with all the parts made to look exactly like a Tiger. When being sold it is advertized as a Tiger, Ask the owner what he has and he answers Tiger. That is an Alger and the reason they are held in low esteem by Tiger owners. The essence of Alger is intent to deceive. Rootes did us no favors with the weak VIN identification elements on Alpines and Tigers. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 5 23:16:33 2010 From: drmayf To: "Teepen, Jere" Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 21:56:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) If both AC ACE and Cobras rolled out the same door from them, complete without intervention of Shelby then it would be analogous to Alpines and Tigers coming from the same maker and being sold by that maker through its dealers. Then if you purchased an ACE and decided to make it a Cobra clone using the makers parts and calling it a ACEROBA or some such then it would be very nearly the same as making a Tiger from an Alpine. mayf, and now I am headed tobed, lol... Teepen, Jere wrote: >AC made the Ace and Cobras. Instead of the CSX prefix as on the Shelby Cobras, AC made COB prefix car for the European market. Closer? > >-----Original Message----- >From: drmayf [mailto:drmayf@mayfco.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:29 PM >To: Teepen, Jere >Cc: CoolVT@aol.com; tigers@autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) > >This one might qualify. Has it been done? Has anyone taken an AC ACE >and installed all the items that make a Cobra a Cobra and called their >new Car an AC Cobra? While this isn't teh same thing as two different >cars made by the same company and then having parts from one added to >the other and calling it an Alger. Close but not yet quite the same. > > >mayf >Teepen, Jere wrote: > > > >>How about an AC Ace with a Ford V-8? Instant Cobra? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of drmayf >>Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:07 AM >>To: CoolVT@aol.com >>Cc: tigers@autox.team.net >>Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) >> >>CoolVT@aol.com wrote: _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 05:10:18 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: michael king , Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 06:51:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) ...but I don't understand. Aren't original AC Ace cars worth $250k or so in their own right? I mean, that's an expensive car to use to make a clone... Am I wrong? On 8/5/10 10:29 PM, "michael king" wrote: > This has been done several times. and in several itterations. > > There are early aces.. with the slightly earlier style ace body than the > conbra had that have had the "cobra" parts fitted. > > There are the correct body Aces that have had the cobra parts fitted.. > thouhg the guards have not been lipped as per cobra. > > There are AC Acea coupes that have cobraised.. > > there are Ac's that were rebuilt by autocraft (AC cars in the 80's) that > were converted to cobra spec... > > ultimately.. none of them are cobras from the original run of cars. > > On 6 August 2010 11:28, drmayf wrote: > >> This one might qualify. Has it been done? Has anyone taken an AC ACE and >> installed all the items that make a Cobra a Cobra and called their new Car >> an AC Cobra? While this isn't teh same thing as two different cars made by >> the same company and then having parts from one added to the other and >> calling it an Alger. Close but not yet quite the same. >> >> >> mayf >> >> Teepen, Jere wrote: >> >> How about an AC Ace with a Ford V-8? Instant Cobra? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] >>> On Behalf Of drmayf >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:07 AM >>> To: CoolVT@aol.com >>> Cc: tigers@autox.team.net >>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject) >>> >>> CoolVT@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> ** >>>> In a message dated 8/5/2010 11:44:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>>> drmayf@mayfco.com writes: >>>> >>>> I cannot recall (maybe bad old memory cells, lol) >>>> of any other car which has been modified to resemble a different >>>> model >>>> of the same manufacturer having a split name of the two different >>>> models. >>>> >>>> ** *How about Chevelle and Corvette..........Chevette. Of course it >>>> hasn't been modified or doesn't look like either;-)* >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Sorry, doesn't qualify by the stated rule I made above. A checvelle was >>> not made into a corvette by adding corvette junk to it. Now vice versa. >>> Chevette was and entire new product line from the maker. Score 6 those for >>> thinking, lol... >>> >>> mayf >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 05:27:53 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: Jim , , 'Mountjoy' Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 07:08:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger I saw that too. I have not looked it over very closely, but it looks like it could easily be a good example of a car that is OK in the hands of an honest person, but the next owner might sell it as the real deal in the near or distant future. It looks pretty darn good. Caveat emptor would apply. Does Norm Miller know about this car? Can anyone inform him of it? If I had the money, I'd be buying this car to truly drive the crap out of without fear of wrecking a "collector car". Seriously tempting...if the price is right. How much do you expect this to sell for? Would anyone like to critique this car? EBay item 110569833152. Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Sunbeam-Tiger-Conversion-/110569833152?p t=US_Cars_Trucks#ht_3740wt_1167 On 8/6/10 12:48 AM, "Jim" wrote: > Well...speaking of... an Alger came on e-Bay today... they call it a > Sunbeam Tiger 'conversion' but, along with a lot of Tiger bits, it also has > a Tiger VIN plate on it ! I see that VIN# ( B382000046 ) is listed in the > registry... I wonder if Norm has it noted as 'junked'? ...or? > So... the winner of the auction will know that it's a 'conversion' but could > sure be tempted to try and re-sell it as 'real' ... > > Jim > B382000446 > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of e.coiner@cox.net > Sent: August 5, 2010 7:59 PM > To: Mountjoy; michael king > Cc: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger > > ---- michael king wrote: >> He built the alger so he could modify it the way >> he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... >> >> I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many >> tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the > "alpine" >> scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not > trying >> to fool anyone. > > > That is not an Alger. It is a an Alpine with an engine transplant. > > An Alger is an Alpine body with all the parts made to look exactly like a > Tiger. When being sold it is advertized as a Tiger, > Ask the owner what he has and he answers Tiger. > > That is an Alger and the reason they are held in low esteem by Tiger owners. > The essence of Alger is intent to deceive. > Rootes did us no favors with the weak VIN identification elements on Alpines > and Tigers. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 05:42:26 2010 From: Allan Ballard To: "Mike Michels" Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:15:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Kienzle clocks come on ebay from time to time---right size, black with white numbers, will need to paint the hands red. Finding matching red paint is no more difficult than a trip to the local paint store... On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Mike Michels wrote: > For those looking to plug the "rootes group" hole in the dash with a > reasonable alternative to finding an original clock, CAT sells a replica > with a quartz movement. I have one and it looks great and keeps perfect > time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Tom Parker > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:33 PM > To: Steve Laifman > Cc: LIST TIGER > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock > > Thanks, Steve! I have a Mark 1 clock on the way to fill the hole in my new > dash, and when I have the speedometer calibrated I'll ask Peter at Nisonger > to convert it to quartz. I think he does that. There are "small number" > clocks for sale in England, but the ones I saw have white hands. Maybe Peter > can paint them... > > Again, the depth of knowledge on this site is amazing. Thanks to all. > > Tom > > On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Steve Laifman wrote: > >> Tom, and Michael, >> >> Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tom. Now I "have" to answer the >> question. >> >> Michael is correct. >> >> There were many clock faces used by Smiths for Sunbeam Alpines and Tigers >> (all "dealer options). Bottom line: >> >> - The Sunbeam Tiger Mk I used Smiths CE 3030/00, which is in my car. >> The 3 and 9 are sideways, and the bottom timing adjust and time set are > on >> the bottom sides, and the hands are red. >> >> Smiths CE 3030/00 >> >> Smiths CE 3131/01 >> >> In summary, >> >> The MkIA and MkII used Smiths CE 3131/01. The 3 and 9 are upright, and >> correct number for your car. >> >> Unfortunately, due to List space restrictions, only you and Michael King >> will get a directly sent version that does have the pictures. >> >> As an additional piece of information, these clocks were electric wind-up, >> and may not be working. Never fear, a solution is possible. A good >> instrument shop that deals in Smiths, can replace the mechanism with a >> quartz VDO guts in the original shell. The VDO movement is reported to be >> extremely accurate. Who knows, if mine fails, I'll have to consider this. >> >> Steve Laifman >> >> Editor >> >> http://TigersUnited.com >> >> >> michael king wrote: >> >> The MKII used the later model clock as per sunbeam alpine SV, this has the >> smaller numbers with the 9 and 3 vertical. >> >> its smiths part #CE3131/01 >> >> On 5 August 2010 05:34, Tom Parker > wrote: >> >> >> >> This is mainly a question for Steve Laifman, I think he's addressed it >> before; if anyone else knows please chip in: >> >> Steve, >> >> Which clock was used in the ' 67 Tiger 2? I know the diameter is 60 mm (@ > 2 >> 3/8") and the hands are orange, but I think I read you mentioned a >> difference in the numbers. I can't find the original post. >> >> Tom >> _______________________________________________ > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of > CE_3030_00.jpg] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of > CE_3131_01.jpg] > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mmichels@socal.rr.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/allanballard@att.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 05:42:46 2010 From: michael king To: "Would U. Believe" Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 21:15:37 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger On 6 August 2010 21:08, Would U. Believe wrote: > Does Norm Miller know about this car? > Looks like the one that stars in the Alger Alley on his website.. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 05:57:03 2010 From: Allan Ballard To: "Would U. Believe" Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:40:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Nice looking fake -- when will they learn that Rootes used Forest Green not BRG? On Aug 6, 2010, at 7:08 AM, Would U. Believe wrote: > I saw that too. I have not looked it over very closely, but it looks like > it could easily be a good example of a car that is OK in the hands of an > honest person, but the next owner might sell it as the real deal in the near > or distant future. It looks pretty darn good. Caveat emptor would apply. > Does Norm Miller know about this car? Can anyone inform him of it? If I > had the money, I'd be buying this car to truly drive the crap out of without > fear of wrecking a "collector car". Seriously tempting...if the price is > right. How much do you expect this to sell for? Would anyone like to > critique this car? EBay item 110569833152. Link: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Sunbeam-Tiger-Conversion-/110569833152?p > t=US_Cars_Trucks#ht_3740wt_1167 > > > On 8/6/10 12:48 AM, "Jim" wrote: > >> Well...speaking of... an Alger came on e-Bay today... they call it a >> Sunbeam Tiger 'conversion' but, along with a lot of Tiger bits, it also has >> a Tiger VIN plate on it ! I see that VIN# ( B382000046 ) is listed in the >> registry... I wonder if Norm has it noted as 'junked'? ...or? >> So... the winner of the auction will know that it's a 'conversion' but could >> sure be tempted to try and re-sell it as 'real' ... >> >> Jim >> B382000446 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] >> On Behalf Of e.coiner@cox.net >> Sent: August 5, 2010 7:59 PM >> To: Mountjoy; michael king >> Cc: tigers@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger >> >> ---- michael king wrote: >>> He built the alger so he could modify it the way >>> he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... >>> >>> I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many >>> tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the >> "alpine" >>> scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not >> trying >>> to fool anyone. >> >> >> That is not an Alger. It is a an Alpine with an engine transplant. >> >> An Alger is an Alpine body with all the parts made to look exactly like a >> Tiger. When being sold it is advertized as a Tiger, >> Ask the owner what he has and he answers Tiger. >> >> That is an Alger and the reason they are held in low esteem by Tiger owners. >> The essence of Alger is intent to deceive. >> Rootes did us no favors with the weak VIN identification elements on Alpines >> and Tigers. >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/allanballard@att.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 07:43:31 2010 From: "=?utf-8?B?c3Bvb2swMUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA==?=" To: "=?utf-8?B?U3RldmUgTGFpZm1hbg==?=" Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 08:25:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Tiger_marked_Alpine_and_Tiger_value?= So, guys, what is a driver alger worth? Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone ----- Reply message ----- From: "Steve Laifman" Date: Thu, Aug 5, 2010 19:28 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger marked Alpine and Tiger value To: "Tony Somebody" Cc: "Beamclub" Tony, The name "Tiger" has copyright in Germany and France, So it was re-badged and sold as as an "Alpine 260" There also were South African assembled Tigers, with the Tiger name. Norm Miller provided the details in his TBON book. Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Tony Somebody wrote: > I once found a Tiger in a shop close to me here in southern IL. I was waiting > to talk to someone about an Alpine back against the fence row. The car had its > hood up, had a Tiger VIN but had Alpine in place of Tiger on the outside, it > was complete, including outside stainless. Everything I could find said it was > a real Tiger. I had someone try to steal my Tiger in Cabondale, IL once (home > of southern IL. university)- they had cut the wires on the ignition switch- > glad they didn't know the easy way to start a Tiger or I would have had more > problems than twisting some wires together to get home- I'm sure the kids that > where standing around behind my date and I where the culprits but that was > many years before video cameras. The Tiger marked Alpine was about 7 miles > west of Carbondale and perhaps the Alpine chrome was to deter would be > thieves. As for the 26 k for a Tiger, I think a Tiger in good to excellent > condition can bring 30 easily. I'm curious what > 1 part at a time would net a person on epay? IF you buy a rough Tiger and > have Doug Jennings restore(prior to retirement) it, by the time you pay for > his labor you will be knocking on over 20k and thats if the dipper didn't eat > to many holes into the body/frame. Material is outrageous and paint must have > gold blended into each gallon and there is still all the little things like > brakes and steering, the front suspension needing rebuilt and on and on. Soon > your investment is over the 26K mark and does a person ever stop finding new > items to make improvements. I have a want list that goes over or close to 10K > w/ me doing all the labor, except building the striker engine and I think I > could do that if I had the blue prints from someone elses build card. > TtT > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/slaifman@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/spook01@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 08:57:18 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Green Alger Alan, You could probably buy this Alger for the same (or a little more) money than you paid for your Tiger....and you wouldnt have any work or expense restoring it....it would feel EXACTLY the same going down the road. I think it will sell for close to 20k as it is a nice example.....Typically an Alger is about 1/2 in selling price than an original car....this ebay listing shows that when they are sold most owners wil say what it is....I never plan to sell mine, it will pass on to my daughter and then her child one day....but I have instructed her that if it is ever sold for some reason that it is a clone and not a factory v8 car. Also I personally informed Norm with my vin as an Alger years ago when I started the project. Just because a clone car has Tiger badges and vin does not mean it will be sold frauduantly.... mike Schreiner _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 09:29:25 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Jim , e.coiner@cox.net, 'Mountjoy' Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Alger on ebay Well, whoever built that car built it to decieve. Current seller is doing the right thing and clearly revealing its status. Somehow I think down the road it will be used to decieve again. Wonder what the reserve is. It's a nice Alpine hot rod. Kind of a shame to see that aircleaner on there knowing there are several real Tiger owners that would like to have it. Current bid $1200 Value of legit Tiger parts $ priceless --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Would U. Believe wrote: From: Would U. Believe Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger To: "Jim" , e.coiner@cox.net, "'Mountjoy'" , "'michael king'" Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 4:08 AM I saw that too. I have not looked it over very closely, but it looks like it could easily be a good example of a car that is OK in the hands of an honest person, but the next owner might sell it as the real deal in the near or distant future. It looks pretty darn good. Caveat emptor would apply. Does Norm Miller know about this car? Can anyone inform him of it? If I had the money, I'd be buying this car to truly drive the crap out of without fear of wrecking a "collector car". Seriously tempting...if the price is right. How much do you expect this to sell for? Would anyone like to critique this car? EBay item 110569833152. Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Sunbeam-Tiger-Conversion-/110569833152?p t=US_Cars_Trucks#ht_3740wt_1167 On 8/6/10 12:48 AM, "Jim" wrote: > Well...speaking of... an Alger came on e-Bay today... they call it a > Sunbeam Tiger 'conversion' but, along with a lot of Tiger bits, it also has > a Tiger VIN plate on it ! I see that VIN# ( B382000046 ) is listed in the > registry... I wonder if Norm has it noted as 'junked'? ...or? > So... the winner of the auction will know that it's a 'conversion' but could > sure be tempted to try and re-sell it as 'real' ... > > Jim > B382000446 > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of e.coiner@cox.net > Sent: August 5, 2010 7:59 PM > To: Mountjoy; michael king > Cc: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger > > ---- michael king wrote: >> He built the alger so he could modify it the way >> he wanted, and drive the heck out of it... >> >> I have seen the photos of the car.. looks great.. probably nicer than many >> tigers.. and he has left the alpine VIN and JAl on it.. and has the > "alpine" >> scripts.. its a great car and would be a blast to own.. and he is not > trying >> to fool anyone. > > > That is not an Alger. It is a an Alpine with an engine transplant. > > An Alger is an Alpine body with all the parts made to look exactly like a > Tiger. When being sold it is advertized as a Tiger, > Ask the owner what he has and he answers Tiger. > > That is an Alger and the reason they are held in low esteem by Tiger owners. > The essence of Alger is intent to deceive. > Rootes did us no favors with the weak VIN identification elements on Alpines > and Tigers. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim@island.net > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 09:29:37 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: "'Allan Ballard'" , "'Would U. Believe'" Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:02:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Wow...that conversion car on eBay is pretty convincing for the novice like me....somebody went through some real effort to replicate the car. I'm amazed. I have learned through Norm and some others how to spot the correct rivets on the Tag, and those aren't it...so thankfully I would have caught that if I was an interested buyer....and hopefully I would have caught some other things...but I can tell it would have been difficult to spot...and I feel like I know them pretty well these days, having been down to the raw metal on my car... Did you guys notice the alternator bracket? Isn't that the same Mk!! Bracket discussed earlier? Now I know that I said " as long as its represented as a replica ( or conversion) I have no problem with it...." or something like that...which is still true....this one is so convincing....its making the claim that it's a Tiger if nothing is said to dispute....i mean...if you have an alpine, with the shifter in the center of the tunnel, square inner fender braces...etc...obvious stuff...but it has a sbf in it...to me, its not trying to be a Tiger, since alpine bodies and Tiger bodies are so different in other ways....now this car is taking it to the next level.... its actually impersonating the real car in careful detail....all of the sudden I find myself on the fence...because this car might actually hurt somebody who thinks he's buying a Tiger. Thankfully the current seller is honest about it...and at this point I'm sure Norm is aware...so hopefully this PARTICULAR car wont contribute to the problem...but its not usually such a concern to me because most that I have seen don't execute the effort so well. Seems clear to me that a real Tiger was sacrificed to make this car happen. I know that I have asked this before, but I still have an unanswered question, and I don't think there is a right answer, but that question is, how much is "too much" to desclassify the original car? (any car for that matter) I mean, in this case, if we assume an Alpine V was stripped, and the critical and visually obvious pieces of a Tiger were cut out of an old Tiger body and welded into this one, then its clearly a fake. On the other side of the issue, I don't know anyone who would say that a Tiger is not a Tiger because it had a qtr panel replaced due to an accident ( and the qtr came off an Alpine)...lets say it had new floor boards installed, and you buy reproductions that fit either car.... catch my drift? There have been Severely rusty tigers on eBay before, where the rockers were non-existent...floor pans nonexistent, let's say you fixed all of that, new front sheet metal, new qtrs, new pans....i have seen Tigers on Dale's website where the sheet metal was taken down to that level....i mean it looked like a pan with a firewall and that's it....and I haven't heard anyone say that his Tiger restorations produce fake Tigers...then again, I don't know if he is putting real "donor" Tiger exterior sheet metal back on his projects.. How much metal has to be replaced on a Tiger body to take away its legitimacy? It may not matter, but I don't think the issue will ever be black and white. And you cant answer with..." well we define it as whether or not the original body rolled off the Tiger Jensen assembly line..." that doesn't answer my question....but in all honesty, I doubt anyone can. The only true answer I can think of, would be 51% of its sheet metal mass....if you replace or change 51% you have made it less Tiger than whatever you replaced it with....but I'll say this, 51% of a raw body tub of a Tiger would fit easily in the back of my pickup...lol Cullen 1452 LROFE "one of 53 known to exist" ( Thanks Steve) _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 09:29:47 2010 From: "rande" To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:05:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Algers, etc ...and I thought I just stepped on ONE Tiger paw. Whew, looks like a small herd, judging by the postings. Erich and Darrell M. get bonus points. It's not the deed, it's the deception. Mike S., again, there's no target on your back. At least if I were buying a car from you, you'd let me know what you were selling. As for the comparison of prototypes( and I suppose you could include certain race cars) to Algers, no, I'm not going to land on Darrell's or Bill Carroll's front doorstep to decry what someone did to two perfectly good Alpines. As for hotrods, I can admire the imagination and technical ability, while not wanting one in my garage. The comparison of the Ace and Cobra in the Alger discussion is hilarious and a bit spooky. I was thinking about that yesterday afternoon. Let's see, carve up one pristine $250,000 AC ACE to fabricate a dodgy recirculating ball steering $450,000 Cobra. I suppose that's in the realm of possibility, it's just not likely. While we're armchair racing on the Cobra theme, what about the AC 289 Sport. This a circa 1968 model that mates the bulbous Cobra 427 body and coil spring chassis with a 289 powertrain. It was marketed along with the Frua-designed AC428 in the UK when new Cobra's could no longer be sold in the States. Is that a real Cobra? As for the eBay car purported to be a recreated Tiger, let's see what it sells for. The interesting thing is that there's another Tiger on the site today. Compare eventual selling prices. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 09:30:21 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Tigers@autox.team.net, mike schreiner Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger But the simple act of putting Tiger badges on is fraudulant. Why not drive what it is ? A very nice Alpine hot rod. I'd be proud to own a nice Alpine hot rod. Steve --- On Fri, 8/6/10, mike schreiner wrote: From: mike schreiner Subject: [Tigers] Green Alger To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 7:30 AM Alan, You could probably buy this Alger for the same (or a little more) money than you paid for your Tiger....and you wouldnt have any work or expense restoring it....it would feel EXACTLY the same going down the road. I think it will sell for close to 20k as it is a nice example.....Typically an Alger is about 1/2 in selling price than an original car....this ebay listing shows that when they are sold most owners wil say what it is....I never plan to sell mine, it will pass on to my daughter and then her child one day....but I have instructed her that if it is ever sold for some reason that it is a clone and not a factory v8 car. Also I personally informed Norm with my vin as an Alger years ago when I started the project. Just because a clone car has Tiger badges and vin does not mean it will be sold frauduantly.... mike Schreiner _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 09:30:24 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mikeflbmer@yahoo.com, Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:11:10 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger On the Ebay Alger....if someone is not intending to fool anyone, why would they swap the vin's and put a Tiger vin on an Alpine? The swapping could lead to problems in some jurisdictions.......and not just rejecting the registration. M In a message dated 8/6/2010 10:57:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mikeflbmer@yahoo.com writes: Alan, You could probably buy this Alger for the same (or a little more) money than you paid for your Tiger....and you wouldnt have any work or expense restoring it....it would feel EXACTLY the same going down the road. I think it will sell for close to 20k as it is a nice example.....Typically an Alger is about 1/2 in selling price than an original car....this ebay listing shows that when they are sold most owners wil say what it is....I never plan to sell mine, it will pass on to my daughter and then her child one day....but I have instructed her that if it is ever sold for some reason that it is a clone and not a factory v8 car. Also I personally informed Norm with my vin as an Alger years ago when I started the project. Just because a clone car has Tiger badges and vin does not mean it will be sold frauduantly.... mike Schreiner _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 09:31:37 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Tigers@autox.team.net, mike schreiner Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger Very true- An Alger is much like a female, each and everyone must b cahecked out in a different manner as thei VINs arent always balanced or they show one thing and become another. Then their is the ones who look rough and turn out to bee the bet of them all BUT that seldom happens. Chees, TtT --- On Fri, 8/6/10, mike schreiner wrote: From: mike schreiner Subject: [Tigers] Green Alger To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 9:30 AM Alan, You could probably buy this Alger for the same (or a little more) money than you paid for your Tiger....and you wouldnt have any work or expense restoring it....it would feel EXACTLY the same going down the road. I think it will sell for close to 20k as it is a nice example.....Typically an Alger is about 1/2 in selling price than an original car....this ebay listing shows that when they are sold most owners wil say what it is....I never plan to sell mine, it will pass on to my daughter and then her child one day....but I have instructed her that if it is ever sold for some reason that it is a clone and not a factory v8 car. Also I personally informed Norm with my vin as an Alger years ago when I started the project. Just because a clone car has Tiger badges and vin does not mean it will be sold frauduantly.... mike Schreiner _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 10:44:20 2010 From: Tod Brown To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:09:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger I agree with Mark. There are things done to this car that can only be understood as an attempt to deceive, such as the badging. It cannot be seen in the pictures, but one place that would be very revealing to me would be the area under the rear shelf where the fuel pump resides on a Tiger. In an Alpine, that area is boxed in and holds the battery. If the boxing is cut away and an effort made to make it look identical to a Tiger, it seems to me that the only reason would be to deceive, since it would take more than a cursory examination to see the change. IMHO, an honest builder should and would leave certain clues to the car's origins that would be evident to a knowledgeable buyer. The present seller is a dealer and probably could be held legally responsible for passing it off as a "real" Tiger. As several on here have said, the next owner may not be as ethical. It would be interesting to see what someone could get for the pieces if it were to be parted out. Tod B382002384LRXFE Don't forget to register for United 2010 in Rockland, Maine in October. Go to teae.org for more info. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 11:13:01 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] ALger It is a common practice on many cars brought back from the dead....Knowing and proving is two differen things....only the builder was there when restoration was done and body parts were exchanged _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 11:13:35 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Alger It is not fraudulant (maybe in your eyes only)...are you saying all replica cobras are fraudulant? And the Ferarris made from Tooyotta MR2 or the little pontiac? or T bird convtable replicas? MGA replicas...the list goes on _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 11:13:50 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] ALGER Why worry about what some dreamed up next owner MIGHT do? The seller now is doing the right thing....and maybe the Battery box is cut out so when the cops pull you over you can easilly dump your beer (or whatever) under the car before the office walks up. (not that i would ever do such a THING)! _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 11:26:55 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] alger Original rivits dont mean much in my book as there are plenty of factory tigers out there with the rivits changed by some paint and body shop (how many vin plates have been lost at paint and body shops over the years)....Besides, you can remove original rivits off an old air vent box from a later car and insert them into the vin badge for that original look (now how would I know that?) mike _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 11:27:16 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] ALGER on ebay You have no evidence that anyone wanted to decieve.....that is just your opinion...maybee the builder just wanted thecar to look proper (like cobra kit builders do)....you sould be praising him for saving a car and doing such an outstanding job instead of accusing him of fraud when you never even met him. (no it wasnt me) mike S _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 11:57:57 2010 From: mcdangerous@verizon.net To: todbrown@roadrunner.com Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:45:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger I don't really know about that. I mean, there are people out there that are really picky about getting a "tribute" absolutely right. I'm very big into vintage guitars, particularly Beatles-related instruments. There are some that only one or two were ever made, like George's Rickenbacker 360/12. The Japanese are really, really into these things. Rickenbacker made a reissue of George's almost unique guitar (only one other exists). It was not absolutely perfect. The fanatics out there did forensic analysis of photographs of the real deal, down to the screw heads, scratches, etc., and made their own perfect copy. Of course, this was to feed their own need to feel close to an original when an original is unattainable. They would (or could) never try to sell the guitars as originals. The Tiger thing could be similar. To recreate what for the owner is a perfect knock-off, with no intention to sell it to anyone. Who really knows? I kind of understand it, in a weird way. I mean, if the donor cars were really cheap and the artiste wanted the real thing but could not afford it, why not? The only problem here is the VIN and JAL tags, because to tamper with them (at least the VIN) is illegal. I have no problem with the Tiger badging, really. Just my own opinion, which I can guarantee may change in a few minutes. Yes, I'm finicky. :-) Aug 6, 2010 11:44:57 AM, todbrown@roadrunner.com wrote: I agree with Mark. There are things done to this car that can only be understood as an attempt to deceive, such as the badging. It cannot be seen in the pictures, but one place that would be very revealing to me would be the area under the rear shelf where the fuel pump resides on a Tiger. In an Alpine, that area is boxed in and holds the battery. If the boxing is cut away and an effort made to make it look identical to a Tiger, it seems to me that the only reason would be to deceive, since it would take more than a cursory examination to see the change. IMHO, an honest builder should and would leave certain clues to the car's origins that would be evident to a knowledgeable buyer. The present seller is a dealer and probably could be held legally responsible for passing it off as a "real" Tiger. As several on here have said, the next owner may not be as ethical. It would be interesting to see what someone could get for the pieces if it were to be parted out. Tod B382002384LRXFE Don't forget to register for United 2010 in Rockland, Maine in October. Go to teae.org for more info. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 12:40:41 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Tigers@autox.team.net, mike schreiner Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Yes I am. If you identify it as something its not then its fraudulant. It may not be damaging to anyone, but its less than honest. You want people in gas stations or parking lots or roads to say "Nice Tiger" or some variation on that, but its not a Tiger. Similar to buying a 1963 cadillac and telling people it used to be Elvis' car when it wasn't. Maybe theres no $ damage done but that doesn't make it honest. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, mike schreiner wrote: From: mike schreiner Subject: [Tigers] Alger To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 9:54 AM It is not fraudulant (maybe in your eyes only)...are you saying all replica cobras are fraudulant? And the Ferarris made from Tooyotta MR2 or the little pontiac? or T bird convtable replicas? MGA replicas...the list goes on _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 12:41:18 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: "mcdangerous@verizon.net" , Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 13:13:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger So you're saying this guy created a perfect "tribute" to B382000046, right down to taking its actual VIN and JAL plates and screwing them down to the "tribute" car? Seems to me that going that far crosses a few boundaries. In your guitar analogy, that would be like creating a tribute to a particular guitar by taking its Fender badge (or whatever passes for serialization on guitars), the strings, and the bridge, screwing those down onto a reproduction, and then claiming you had a 'tribute'. Tributes don't generally involve the destruction and subsequent impersonation of the original. Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mcdangerous@verizon.net > Sent: August 6, 2010 11:46 AM > To: todbrown@roadrunner.com > Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger > > I don't really know about that. I mean, there are people out there > that are > really picky about getting a "tribute" absolutely right. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 13:08:14 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Tigers@autox.team.net, Tod Brown Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger Maybe he removed the box to access the fuel pump. That or so there was room for the fuel pump. I think that is why the Tiger orginally had the box removed, as the pump would have been into the box. As long as the orginal VIN tag is still on the Alger it makes no difference what he does to the outside. Its his car, he can do with it as he pleases. When he tries to sell it as a Tiger and uses an Alpine title, then he has found one not very smart rich guy or female wanting a present for her boyfriend while her husband is out of town. Tt From: Tod Brown Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 11:09 AM I agree with Mark. There are things done to this car that can only be understood as an attempt to deceive, such as the badging. It cannot be seen in the _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 13:09:56 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Alger Maybe yoiu should just close your eyes whenever you come across a car like that... We'l be able to regognize you....you'll be the one blinking alot at car shows _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 13:27:35 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Alger Yes, But if you had two junked cars there and made one good car out of the two...I say it is the builders choice as to which vin to use....just my opinion _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 13:27:57 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] ALger Of course if i really wanted to upset you purists I would inform you that I printed out copies of a TAC sticker and glued it under the dash of my ALGER and both of my Alpines.......as a joke of course...wanna see a picture? _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 13:44:04 2010 From: Steve Ralsten To: Tigers@autox.team.net, mike schreiner Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Obviously you're not going to change based on my opinion. But, you brought it up so I give you my honest opinion, otherwise I'd be dishonest. Steve --- On Fri, 8/6/10, mike schreiner wrote: From: mike schreiner Subject: [Tigers] Alger To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 11:38 AM Maybe yoiu should just close your eyes whenever you come across a car like that... We'l be able to regognize you....you'll be the one blinking alot at car shows _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/s_ralsten@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 14:31:20 2010 From: Allan Ballard To: mike schreiner Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:01:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger Good information Mike, thanks. I don't want to get into this debate, there are good people on all sides, but do feel that Algers should be marked with some sort of permanent tag as an Alpine with a V8. Personally if I owned one I'd remove the Tiger badge, and badge it an Alpine V8. Folks who collect US cents might draw an analogy to the rarest US cent - 1799. Second in fun to selling rare worn examples at high prices is displaying extraordinary counterfeits made through the last 2 centuries that can fool all but the experts... Similar to a Tiger getting TAC'd, a 1799 also can get authenticated...and a counterfeit also can get "authenticated." Just my 0.02$ worth... Allan On Aug 6, 2010, at 10:30 AM, mike schreiner wrote: > Alan, You could probably buy this Alger for the same (or a little more) money than you paid for your Tiger....and you wouldnt have any work or expense restoring it....it would feel EXACTLY the same going down the road. I think it will sell for close to 20k as it is a nice example.....Typically an Alger is about 1/2 in selling price than an original car....this ebay listing shows that when they are sold most owners wil say what it is....I never plan to sell mine, it will pass on to my daughter and then her child one day....but I have instructed her that if it is ever sold for some reason that it is a clone and not a factory v8 car. Also I personally informed Norm with my vin as an Alger years ago when I started the project. Just because a clone car has Tiger badges and vin does not mean it will be sold frauduantly.... mike Schreiner > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/allanballard@att.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 14:59:28 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: "'Steve Ralsten'" , , Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:21:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Alright you two...meet at the bike racks at 3:00....we'll settle this..... _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 15:01:06 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: "spook01@comcast.net" Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:27:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger marked Alpine and Tiger value Spook, Whatever someone that knows it was, originally, an Alpine with a V-8 inserted at some later date, and NOT a Tiger. Doubt if auction houses would list it as described, but value is set by a willing seller and a willing buyer with non of the facts concealed. "I reckon that's one good looking pig, if you'd remove the lipstick!" "Hey man, that's no pig, that's my sister your talkin' about" Caveat Emptor Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com spook01@comcast.net wrote: > So, guys, what is a driver alger worth? > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Steve Laifman" > Date: Thu, Aug 5, 2010 19:28 > Subject: [Tigers] Tiger marked Alpine and Tiger value > To: "Tony Somebody" > Cc: "Beamclub" > > > Tony, > > The name "Tiger" has copyright in Germany and France, So it was > re-badged and sold as as an "Alpine 260" > There also were South African assembled Tigers, with the Tiger name. > > Norm Miller provided the details in his TBON book. <===== snip =====> > _ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 16:21:06 2010 From: To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:34:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger I'll be real blunt. If you have no intent for fraud, you would not put the transfer the Tiger VIN plate onto the Alpine. You would leave the Alpine VIN intact. ---- mike schreiner wrote: > Alan, You could probably buy this Alger for the same (or a little more) money than you paid for your Tiger....and you wouldnt have any work or expense restoring it....it would feel EXACTLY the same going down the road. I think it will sell for close to 20k as it is a nice example.....Typically an Alger is about 1/2 in selling price than an original car....this ebay listing shows that when they are sold most owners wil say what it is....I never plan to sell mine, it will pass on to my daughter and then her child one day....but I have instructed her that if it is ever sold for some reason that it is a clone and not a factory v8 car. Also I personally informed Norm with my vin as an Alger years ago when I started the project. Just because a clone car has Tiger badges and vin does not mean it will be sold frauduantly.... mike Schreiner > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/e.coiner@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 16:50:28 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: "'A. C. Tynes'" , Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:23:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Well, Mike is a good friend of mine, and I don't want to change that. He has gone out of his way to assist me on things, and contributes greatly to the sunbeam community for tech, research, parts etc. So I'm carefull sharing my opinion..but it's just my opinion.........but..... I have to say that I agree...transplanting VINs from one car to another...I believe....is not good. I actually think that if we had an extremely "Tiger correct" looking alpine....cloned into a Tiger in every way cosmetically...call it a tribute or replica, conversion...whatever...ALGER.....I think I would still be ok with it personally as long as it had its correct original VIN for the Alpine. Ultimately that is the label that specifies just what ever car in the world actually is. I think that is the threshold for me where Algers become ....misleading for what they are. The looks doesn't bother me...just the registered, legal ident plate...winding up on the wrong car. In the wrong hands, thats dangerous. I wouldn't want to buy a Shelby mustang, or a yenko camaro, or anything else that had the wrong plate on it under the assumption I was getting the one of a kind collectible, only to find out later it wasn't the right car at all. That would severely ruin my day. C Subject: RE: [Tigers] Alger Cullen and group, To me, the question is whether or not the original VIN plate is on the car. This one clearly isn't, which to me, clearly makes it a fraud and illegal to sell in every state of which I am aware. A. C. Tynes New Orleans _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 17:16:45 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: e.coiner@cox.net, Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:29:44 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger I know an owner who bought a rusted out Tiger with the intent of restoring it. When he got into it, he got really discouraged, swapped all the Tiger parts into one of his Alpines and junked the Tiger. He sold the Alger telling the buyer that it was an Alpine, but then gave him the Tiger VIN to do with whatever he wanted. Not sure why, but my guess it was to add a little sugar to the deal. Who knows what will happen in the future with that car, but Norm now has the VIN number so much of the community will be made aware if someone tries to pass it off. In a message dated 8/6/2010 6:21:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, e.coiner@cox.net writes: I'll be real blunt. If you have no intent for fraud, you would not put the transfer the Tiger VIN plate onto the Alpine. You would leave the Alpine VIN intact. ---- mike schreiner wrote: > Alan, You could probably buy this Alger for the same (or a little more) money than you paid for your Tiger....and you wouldnt have any work or expense restoring it....it would feel EXACTLY the same going down the road. I think it will sell for close to 20k as it is a nice example.....Typically an Alger is about 1/2 in selling price than an original car....this ebay listing shows that when they are sold most owners wil say what it is....I never plan to sell mine, it will pass on to my daughter and then her child one day....but I have instructed her that if it is ever sold for some reason that it is a clone and not a factory v8 car. Also I personally informed Norm with my vin as an Alger years ago when I started the project. Just because a clone car has Tiger badges and vin does not mean it will be sold frauduantly.... mike Schreiner > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/e.coiner@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 17:45:11 2010 From: "Mike Hokanson" To: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:50:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. Lots of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned here is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. When you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a Tiger, Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly modified Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. My '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of losing a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. I'm curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice, clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. But the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car it's from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have an interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of us will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a motor transplant. Just my .02. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 18:01:18 2010 From: "Pointers" To: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:23:30 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Ran fine last outing. Now it will start, but barely runs; very rough. Unable to increase rpm at all. All comes to an end in <15 seconds, often with a backfire. Hint: Last time out, it got very hot. Got caught in road construction a mile away. Approx 220F+ when I parked it. I suppose the fuel likely boiled in the bowls. Do not have a spacer or heat shield. Ran the electric fan, with hood up, for 20 min after parking. I didn't check to see how hot the temp crept up after I parked it. What I have done or checked today: -The fuel pump was real slow to pressure up this year, so replaced that with a new one from SS. Pumps up fine now. -Replaced the fuel filter and blew out the fuel line while the pump was out. -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. After the above work was completed, identical result. Squeezed the throttle, with the engine off, and the carb appears to be delivering plenty of fuel. Holly 1850, rebuilt 1000 miles ago. Engine = internally stock 302. Mods=Offy 360 manifold; Mallory dual point ignition; Accel Super Stock coil. I need the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? Thank you, Gary Pointer _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 18:44:59 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: hokey@oasisol.com, Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 20:09:18 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems to be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish enough to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped? In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hokey@oasisol.com writes: It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. Lots of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned here is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. When you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a Tiger, Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly modified Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. My '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of losing a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. I'm curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice, clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. But the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car it's from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have an interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of us will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a motor transplant. Just my .02. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 18:48:02 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: gpointer@telusplanet.net, tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 20:20:03 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? After finding black flakes before, my guess is that you have more and are due for a tank cleaning/coating. My car was apparently shedding large flakes. It might run fine for 3 or 4 weeks and then run crappy. It was apparently a large flake blocking the inlet to the line. Would be there and float away later. Redid the tanks and problem solved. mark In a message dated 8/6/2010 8:02:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gpointer@telusplanet.net writes: Ran fine last outing. Now it will start, but barely runs; very rough. Unable to increase rpm at all. All comes to an end in <15 seconds, often with a backfire. Hint: Last time out, it got very hot. Got caught in road construction a mile away. Approx 220F+ when I parked it. I suppose the fuel likely boiled in the bowls. Do not have a spacer or heat shield. Ran the electric fan, with hood up, for 20 min after parking. I didn't check to see how hot the temp crept up after I parked it. What I have done or checked today: -The fuel pump was real slow to pressure up this year, so replaced that with a new one from SS. Pumps up fine now. -Replaced the fuel filter and blew out the fuel line while the pump was out. -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. After the above work was completed, identical result. Squeezed the throttle, with the engine off, and the carb appears to be delivering plenty of fuel. Holly 1850, rebuilt 1000 miles ago. Engine = internally stock 302. Mods=Offy 360 manifold; Mallory dual point ignition; Accel Super Stock coil. I need the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? Thank you, Gary Pointer _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:17:24 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: "Smit, Theo" , "todbrown@roadrunner.com" Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:40:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger I agree, Theo. Remember, I did say clearly that I think the VIN and JAL tags are off limits. All I meant was that there are people who just want to feel that the clone they're making is right in every way. I meant only that it is a way to fill a need in themselves and not to be dishonest. My analogy used a new reissue guitar that is tweaked with "correct" 1960s hardware, etc., but zero monkey business with serial numbers or brands. I used a Rickenbacker 1964 360/12 reissue as an example of the kind of guitar some Japanese and other collectors and Beatles fans would tweak to be just like George's guitar. Since only two of those were made in 1964 -- one is in George's estate and the other is owned by the family of the original owner -- it is not at all possible to even consider claiming a tweaked reissue is vintage guitar. So you see, there is no dishonesty or greed involved in this analogy, which I think might also be applicable to Algers (sometimes). Look at Mike S., for instance. He is not at all dishonest about his cars, but I'm sure he could be meticulous about them being as close to the real thing as possible...for him and himself alone, though. I hope that makes some sense. M On 8/6/10 2:13 PM, "Smit, Theo" wrote: > So you're saying this guy created a perfect "tribute" to B382000046, right > down to taking its actual VIN and JAL plates and screwing them down to the > "tribute" car? Seems to me that going that far crosses a few boundaries. > > In your guitar analogy, that would be like creating a tribute to a particular > guitar by taking its Fender badge (or whatever passes for serialization on > guitars), the strings, and the bridge, screwing those down onto a > reproduction, and then claiming you had a 'tribute'. > > Tributes don't generally involve the destruction and subsequent impersonation > of the original. > > Theo > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- >> bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mcdangerous@verizon.net >> Sent: August 6, 2010 11:46 AM >> To: todbrown@roadrunner.com >> Cc: Tigers@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green Alger >> >> I don't really know about that. I mean, there are people out there >> that are >> really picky about getting a "tribute" absolutely right. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please > be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or > any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:45:04 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: , , Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:52:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer It seems clear that he does, or should. He's looking for $30k plus for the car. Here's what he told me: "We sold a 3real2 Tiger about 60 days ago for north of $60k while that market might have eroded some, not to the point where a car that is a real one should go for half that. If that is where you thought process is as it relates to pricing on this particular car, no further conversation is necessary. We are well aware of the fact that this car has in its past been represented as a 3real2 Tiger, hence our being ultra-clear (or so we thought, if there is still a question in your mind) with calling it for what it is---a conversion. It has been meticulously put together and is an excellent value." On 8/6/10 8:09 PM, "CoolVT@aol.com" wrote: > Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems to > be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish enough > to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped? > > > In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > hokey@oasisol.com writes: > > It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. > Lots > of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned > here > is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. > When > you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are > stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart > practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a > Tiger, > Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly > modified > Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. > My > '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the > right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative > things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and > end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of > losing > a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. > I'm > curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice, > clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. > But > the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car > it's > from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have > an > interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting > confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of > us > will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it > becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here > earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there > wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a > motor > transplant. Just my .02. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:45:34 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Swapping Vin You don't know for sure as you werent there when the car was put together...Last year I did a courtesy car inspection on a white Tiger that was being purchased on ebay here in Jupiter. The winning bidder asked me to inspect the car.....It was a couple of miles from my house.....I jacked it up and spent an hour crawling all over it and under it....It was a bondo car theat had two halfves welded together right at the firewall area...the back half was tiger for sure....but the front half I suspected was from an Alpine...and the car was full of bondo, door edges and hood trunk did not line up correctly....long story short the winning bidder backed out of the purchase...but my point is this car had Tiger badges, vin and title....it was made from half a tiger and half an Alpine.....is it an Alger or a repaired tiger....???? _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:46:00 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Vin The fact is I naver had a vin or title on that Alpine ( the alpine stripped shell was from a Junkyard (called Old Gold....great place) that was used to save a rusty Tiger....made two cars from one and used the only vin I had _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:46:03 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Mike Hokanson Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 18:02:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer Mike, Deception is a primary tool for forgers. As soon as something is wanted, someone is willing to counterfeit. This goes for postage stamps, valuable coins, "found on treasure ship" and paintings/photos when they are more valuable than it costs to forge them. Now a lot of counterfeit silver jewelry on eBay. (todays CBS TV report). I have absolutely no bad feelings about modifying an Alpine to have the performance features of a Tiger. They can allow those who like the Tiger, but can't afford one, to get very close, if not better. No harm here. However, when the cars have deliberately changed VIN plates to one that did not come with the car would then be an attempt to deceive. There is no performance advantage to cosmetic changes, and the intent of the seller is in doubt. Now, this is not meant to discourage true hot-rodder, just the ones who build with the intent to deceive. I can see no other reason to alter the registration. This is done with stolen cars as well, and the law deals strongly with stolen car being altered. I can see no other reason to change the VIN, other than an intent to deceive. More power to those want want to openly modify their Alpine. Anybody want a postage stamp with the airplane shown upside-down? Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Mike Hokanson wrote: > It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. Lots > of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned here > is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. When > you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are > stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart > practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a Tiger, > Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly modified > Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. My > '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the > right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative > things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and > end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of losing > a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. I'm > curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice, > clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. But > the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car it's > from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have an > interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting > confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of us > will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it > becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here > earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there > wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a motor > transplant. Just my .02. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:46:14 2010 From: mike schreiner To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Alger Badges Allan had a good idea...I would put Alpine V8 badges on my car (if i had some) Didnt the very early or prototype cars have that badge? Opps someone might accuse me of fraud by making one I can try to sell as one of those mike _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:47:28 2010 From: "Pointers" To: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:10:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Scott Hutchinson was first to reply, that I should check the timing, and he was bang on! To my surprise, the distributor was loose. That heat-up must have expanded/contracted the hold down, then when I hit the ignition, it rotated. (Or so I figure). Anyhow, calling off the dogs on that. But now for some reason, my new fuel pump is no longer delivering fuel. Disconnected it at the carb, and no throughput. Delivered fine after install. No action at all presently. Back to the garage... Scott, kudos! Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:23 PM Subject: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Ran fine last outing. Now it will start, but barely runs; very rough. Unable to increase rpm at all. All comes to an end in <15 seconds, often with a backfire. Hint: Last time out, it got very hot. Got caught in road construction a mile away. Approx 220F+ when I parked it. I suppose the fuel likely boiled in the bowls. Do not have a spacer or heat shield. Ran the electric fan, with hood up, for 20 min after parking. I didn't check to see how hot the temp crept up after I parked it. What I have done or checked today: -The fuel pump was real slow to pressure up this year, so replaced that with a new one from SS. Pumps up fine now. -Replaced the fuel filter and blew out the fuel line while the pump was out. -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. After the above work was completed, identical result. Squeezed the throttle, with the engine off, and the carb appears to be delivering plenty of fuel. Holly 1850, rebuilt 1000 miles ago. Engine = internally stock 302. Mods=Offy 360 manifold; Mallory dual point ignition; Accel Super Stock coil. I need the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? Thank you, Gary Pointer _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:47:31 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: mcdangerous@verizon.net, hokey@oasisol.com, Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 21:12:30 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer Wonder what he's going to say if the car is sold and confiscated by some DMV for the swapped VIN? In a message dated 8/6/2010 8:52:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mcdangerous@verizon.net writes: It seems clear that he does, or should. He's looking for $30k plus for the car. Here's what he told me: "We sold a B3realB2 Tiger about 60 days ago for north of $60kE while that market might have eroded some, not to the point where a car that is a real one should go for half that. If that is where you thought process is as it relates to pricing on this particular car, no further conversation is necessary. We are well aware of the fact that this car has in its past been represented as a B3realB2 Tiger, hence our being ultra-clear (or so we thought, if there is still a question in your mind) with calling it for what it is---a conversion. It has been meticulously put together and is an excellent value." On 8/6/10 8:09 PM, "CoolVT@aol.com" wrote: > Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems to > be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish enough > to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped? > > > In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > hokey@oasisol.com writes: > > It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. > Lots > of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue c oncerned > here > is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. > When > you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are > stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart > practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a > Tiger, > Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly > modified > Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. > My > '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's the > right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do creative > things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal and > end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of > losing > a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. > I'm > curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a nice, > clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. > But > the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car > it's > from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have > an > interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting > confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of > us > will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it > becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here > earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there > wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a > motor > transplant. Just my .02. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 19:48:47 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: , , Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 21:17:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer I asked him the same question...no answer. On 8/6/10 9:12 PM, "CoolVT@aol.com" wrote: > Wonder what he's going to say if the car is sold and confiscated by some DMV > for the swapped VIN? > > In a message dated 8/6/2010 8:52:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mcdangerous@verizon.net writes: >> It seems clear that he does, or should. He's looking for $30k plus for the >> car. Here's what he told me: >> >> "We sold a B3realB2 Tiger about 60 days ago for north of $60kE while that >> market might have eroded some, not to the point where a car that is a real >> one should go for half that. If that is where you thought process is as it >> relates to pricing on this particular car, no further conversation is >> necessary. >> >> We are well aware of the fact that this car has in its past been represented >> as a B3realB2 Tiger, hence our being ultra-clear (or so we thought, if there >> is still a question in your mind) with calling it for what it is---a >> conversion. It has been meticulously put together and is an excellent >> value." >> >> >> >> On 8/6/10 8:09 PM, "CoolVT@aol.com" wrote: >> >>> Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been switched. He seems to >>> be covering his butt by saying it's an Alpine. Would he be foolish enough >>> to show the vin if he knew it has been swapped? >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> hokey@oasisol.com writes: >>> >>> It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of discussion. >>> Lots >>> of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main issue concerned >>> here >>> is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another vehicle. >>> When >>> you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN plates that are >>> stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is not a smart >>> practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was done on a >>> Tiger, >>> Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly >>> modified >>> Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and enjoy the car. >>> My >>> '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such because that's >>> the >>> right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components and do >>> creative >>> things involving the installation of today's tech in the old sheetmetal >>> and >>> end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed without fear of >>> losing >>> a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on her phone. >>> I'm >>> curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly because it's a >>> nice, >>> clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into creating. >>> But >>> the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless of what car >>> it's >>> from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as well that have >>> an >>> interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the car getting >>> confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility that none of >>> us >>> will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being pulled if it >>> becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone said it here >>> earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been retained and there >>> wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an Alpine with a >>> motor >>> transplant. Just my .02. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tigers@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tigers@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 20:18:18 2010 From: michael king To: Tiger Talk List Tiger Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 11:29:50 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Green alger history I mentioend that this car has been on Norm's site for some time but since most people seem to have ignored norms site: http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/tac/clone-page01.htm This gives you some backgorund... and th fact that originaly it was passed off as a Tiger before the nature of its origins was discovered. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 20:21:47 2010 From: "Pointers" To: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:44:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Connected the contacts to the old fuel pump, and the old one works, so not a circuit issue. Took off the new fuel filter (it said not for pumps > 10 psi. Not sure what the SS pump pressures to). Still no fuel. Pulling the pump out. Sheesh. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Scott Hutchinson was first to reply, that I should check the timing, and he was bang on! To my surprise, the distributor was loose. That heat-up must have expanded/contracted the hold down, then when I hit the ignition, it rotated. (Or so I figure). Anyhow, calling off the dogs on that. But now for some reason, my new fuel pump is no longer delivering fuel. Disconnected it at the carb, and no throughput. Delivered fine after install. No action at all presently. Back to the garage... Scott, kudos! Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:23 PM Subject: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Ran fine last outing. Now it will start, but barely runs; very rough. Unable to increase rpm at all. All comes to an end in <15 seconds, often with a backfire. Hint: Last time out, it got very hot. Got caught in road construction a mile away. Approx 220F+ when I parked it. I suppose the fuel likely boiled in the bowls. Do not have a spacer or heat shield. Ran the electric fan, with hood up, for 20 min after parking. I didn't check to see how hot the temp crept up after I parked it. What I have done or checked today: -The fuel pump was real slow to pressure up this year, so replaced that with a new one from SS. Pumps up fine now. -Replaced the fuel filter and blew out the fuel line while the pump was out. -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. After the above work was completed, identical result. Squeezed the throttle, with the engine off, and the carb appears to be delivering plenty of fuel. Holly 1850, rebuilt 1000 miles ago. Engine = internally stock 302. Mods=Offy 360 manifold; Mallory dual point ignition; Accel Super Stock coil. I need the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? Thank you, Gary Pointer _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 21:50:57 2010 From: "Pointers" To: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 21:20:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Couple of loving taps and the fuel new pump came to life. As Mayf had said in a message to me, the loose distrib nut was probably a lark. I cranked it while fully loosened and it didn't rotate. Something else is amiss. I slowly moved the dist around while I cranked and it only came to life near full lock right, but ran poor. Spoke to Tony. Will try some things. Probably after the weekend. This cat's staying home from the party. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Connected the contacts to the old fuel pump, and the old one works, so not a circuit issue. Took off the new fuel filter (it said not for pumps > 10 psi. Not sure what the SS pump pressures to). Still no fuel. Pulling the pump out. Sheesh. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Scott Hutchinson was first to reply, that I should check the timing, and he was bang on! To my surprise, the distributor was loose. That heat-up must have expanded/contracted the hold down, then when I hit the ignition, it rotated. (Or so I figure). Anyhow, calling off the dogs on that. But now for some reason, my new fuel pump is no longer delivering fuel. Disconnected it at the carb, and no throughput. Delivered fine after install. No action at all presently. Back to the garage... Scott, kudos! Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:23 PM Subject: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Ran fine last outing. Now it will start, but barely runs; very rough. Unable to increase rpm at all. All comes to an end in <15 seconds, often with a backfire. Hint: Last time out, it got very hot. Got caught in road construction a mile away. Approx 220F+ when I parked it. I suppose the fuel likely boiled in the bowls. Do not have a spacer or heat shield. Ran the electric fan, with hood up, for 20 min after parking. I didn't check to see how hot the temp crept up after I parked it. What I have done or checked today: -The fuel pump was real slow to pressure up this year, so replaced that with a new one from SS. Pumps up fine now. -Replaced the fuel filter and blew out the fuel line while the pump was out. -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. After the above work was completed, identical result. Squeezed the throttle, with the engine off, and the carb appears to be delivering plenty of fuel. Holly 1850, rebuilt 1000 miles ago. Engine = internally stock 302. Mods=Offy 360 manifold; Mallory dual point ignition; Accel Super Stock coil. I need the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? Thank you, Gary Pointer _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 22:48:41 2010 From: Sandy Ganz To: Pointers , tigers@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 21:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? I have had to 'coerce' the fuel pump with a hammer when my Tiger sits for a long time. Seems to part of the Heritage :) Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Fri, August 6, 2010 8:20:51 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Couple of loving taps and the fuel new pump came to life. As Mayf had said in a message to me, the loose distrib nut was probably a lark. I cranked it while fully loosened and it didn't rotate. Something else is amiss. I slowly moved the dist around while I cranked and it only came to life near full lock right, but ran poor. Spoke to Tony. Will try some things. Probably after the weekend. This cat's staying home from the party. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Connected the contacts to the old fuel pump, and the old one works, so not a circuit issue. Took off the new fuel filter (it said not for pumps > 10 psi. Not sure what the SS pump pressures to). Still no fuel. Pulling the pump out. Sheesh. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Scott Hutchinson was first to reply, that I should check the timing, and he was bang on! To my surprise, the distributor was loose. That heat-up must have expanded/contracted the hold down, then when I hit the ignition, it rotated. (Or so I figure). Anyhow, calling off the dogs on that. But now for some reason, my new fuel pump is no longer delivering fuel. Disconnected it at the carb, and no throughput. Delivered fine after install. No action at all presently. Back to the garage... Scott, kudos! Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: Pointers To: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:23 PM Subject: Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Ran fine last outing. Now it will start, but barely runs; very rough. Unable to increase rpm at all. All comes to an end in <15 seconds, often with a backfire. Hint: Last time out, it got very hot. Got caught in road construction a mile away. Approx 220F+ when I parked it. I suppose the fuel likely boiled in the bowls. Do not have a spacer or heat shield. Ran the electric fan, with hood up, for 20 min after parking. I didn't check to see how hot the temp crept up after I parked it. What I have done or checked today: -The fuel pump was real slow to pressure up this year, so replaced that with a new one from SS. Pumps up fine now. -Replaced the fuel filter and blew out the fuel line while the pump was out. -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. After the above work was completed, identical result. Squeezed the throttle, with the engine off, and the carb appears to be delivering plenty of fuel. Holly 1850, rebuilt 1000 miles ago. Engine = internally stock 302. Mods=Offy 360 manifold; Mallory dual point ignition; Accel Super Stock coil. I need the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? Thank you, Gary Pointer _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sganz@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 6 23:32:02 2010 From: "A. C. Tynes" To: , Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 23:50:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer Yes, according to his e-mail to me, the dealer is fully aware that the VIN has been switched and excuses it by saying, "The rules as they relate to older cars no doubt gets a bit murky." He also say the has been sold several times and titled with the switched VIN being on the title. A. C. Tynes New Orleans > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT@aol.com > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:09 PM > To: hokey@oasisol.com; Tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger VIN Transfer > > Wonder if the selling dealer knows the vin has been > switched. He seems to be covering his butt by saying it's an > Alpine. Would he be foolish enough to show the vin if he > knew it has been swapped? > > > In a message dated 8/6/2010 7:45:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > hokey@oasisol.com writes: > > It seems the nice green Alpine has been quite a subject of > discussion. > Lots > of views/opinions here. But in reality, I think the main > issue concerned > here > is the fact a VIN plate was altered/changed and is on another > vehicle. > When > you do something like this, it's a no-no. Utilizing VIN > plates that are > stashed in desk drawers and utilized at their discretion is > not a smart > practice. Bottom line - it shouldn't matter whether it was > done on a > Tiger, > Alpine, Pinto, Honda or any other car. I personally think a highly > modified > Alpine is a great way to go if you really want to drive and > enjoy the car. > My > '67 Alpine has the correct numbers and is titled as such > because that's the > right thing to do. I can cut, modify, rearrange components > and do creative > things involving the installation of today's tech in the old > sheetmetal and > end up with a very custom sportscar that can be enjoyed > without fear of > losing > a Tiger shell at the intersection due to some kid texting on > her phone. > I'm > curious at the price the car sells for on Ebay, mainly > because it's a nice, > clean sportscar that someone put a lot of time and money into > creating. > But > the VIN has been knowingly altered on the car, irregardless > of what car > it's > from. That's a red flag to me, and should be to others as > well that have > an > interest in buying the car. Imagine the possibility of the > car getting > confiscated due to unlawful activity? There's a possibility > that none of > us > will see the final selling numbers due to the listing being > pulled if it > becomes apparent that there may be a lawful issue. Someone > said it here > earlier - the original Alpine numbers should have been > retained and there > wouldn't be any mistake as to what the car really is - an > Alpine with a > motor > transplant. Just my .02. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/v8tracker@gmail.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3047 - Release > Date: 08/03/10 01:35:00 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 00:02:34 2010 From: "Steven L. Finberg" To: Sandy Ganz Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 01:24:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? > -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. > I need >the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? The death throws of your gas tanks... The black flakes will eventually clog the exit point of the tanks.. where the fuel line leaves the pipe between the left and right tank. Blowing out the line will only clear it for a short time.. The exit point is the low spot and the flakes flow right back to it.. Once it got bad, blowing out the line would last less than 5 miles... First noticed this in my Alpines 20 years ago.. The only fix that held up was recoating the tank interor. It was really hard to get all the old paint out.. It was well attached and was sort of time release flaking...:-) Good luck Steve F ******************************************************************************* Steve Finberg W1GSL w1gsl@mit.edu PO Box 397082 MIT Br Cambridge MA 02139-7082 617 258 3754 ******************************************************************************* _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 01:00:58 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: "Steven L. Finberg" Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 23:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Ratchet strap the tanks to a concrete mixer, fill it with a good cutting media, from small rocks, pieces of glass, shotgun pellets etc etc etc. plus or cap the openings and turn on the mixer, it will cut all the stuff loose or use a chemical strip. I'm sure some sulfuric acid, cut down from pure(I would have to ask a friend who works with it often) to a % that would remove the old lining, then nutralize the acid and coat with one of the products reccomended by a person who has already installed the product and has positive feedback. I think most members have had an easy time of removing the old coating. IF it wantd to stay, perhaps the coated over it?????? Cheers, TtT --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Steven L. Finberg wrote: From: Steven L. Finberg Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? To: "Sandy Ganz" Cc: "Pointers" , tigers@autox.team.net Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 12:24 AM > -There were many black flakes in old pump. I suppose this is tank coating. I presume the inline fuel filter trapped any of this prior to reaching the carb. Took the (paper type) filter apart and there was a bit of the stuff. > I need >the car for an event tomorrow. What am I dealing with here?? The death throws of your gas tanks... The black flakes will eventually clog the exit point of the tanks.. where the fuel line leaves the pipe between the left and right tank. Blowing out the line will only clear it for a short time.. The exit point is the low spot and the flakes flow right back to it.. Once it got bad, blowing out the line would last less than 5 miles... First noticed this in my Alpines 20 years ago.. The only fix that held up was recoating the tank interor. It was really hard to get all the old paint out.. It was well attached and was sort of time release flaking...:-) Good luck Steve F ***************************************************************************** ** Steve Finberg W1GSL w1gsl@mit.edu PO Box 397082 MIT Br Cambridge MA 02139-7082 617 258 3754 ***************************************************************************** ** _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 05:45:03 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: achd73@yahoo.com, w1gsl@MIT.EDU Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 07:22:55 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Tony, The cement mixed idea is one I never heard of. Pretty ingenious. At least that's something that some of us might have access to. Mark _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 07:53:27 2010 From: michael king To: mike schreiner Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:30:55 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger Badges Mike the European cars had ALPINE 260 sheilds. On 07/08/2010, mike schreiner wrote: > Allan had a good idea...I would put Alpine V8 badges on my car (if i had > some) Didnt the very early or prototype cars have that badge? Opps someone > might accuse me of fraud by making one I can try to sell as one of those > mike > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com > > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 08:18:43 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Pointers'" , Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 09:38:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Moving the distributor to full lock right may indicate that the distributor gear is worn or your timing chain is worn. One of them probably jumped a tooth. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Pointers Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 11:21 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Couple of loving taps and the fuel new pump came to life. As Mayf had said in a message to me, the loose distrib nut was probably a lark. I cranked it while fully loosened and it didn't rotate. Something else is amiss. I slowly moved the dist around while I cranked and it only came to life near full lock right, but ran poor. Spoke to Tony. Will try some things. Probably after the weekend. This cat's staying home from the party. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 08:19:15 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: "'michael king'" , "'Tiger Talk List Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 08:40:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Green alger history Your right Michael, I didn't check Norm's site when the discussion started and forgot it was there, or didn't realize it was the same car...so the "cat was out of the bag" (pun inteneded) on this one a long time ago....well...good talk anyway about the concept of it all and where people stand on the issue. I mentioend that this car has been on Norm's site for some time but since most people seem to have ignored norms site: http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/tac/clone-page01.htm This gives you some backgorund... and th fact that originaly it was passed off as a Tiger before the nature of its origins was discovered. -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 08:53:08 2010 From: CoolVT@aol.com To: rfraser@bluefrog.com, gpointer@telusplanet.net, Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:23:02 EDT Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Could be an ignition-timing problem, but if the car ran okay when it was put away and then wouldn't run right when restarted it doesn't sound like ignition....unless there is more than one problem. M In a message dated 8/7/2010 10:19:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rfraser@bluefrog.com writes: Moving the distributor to full lock right may indicate that the distributor gear is worn or your timing chain is worn. One of them probably jumped a tooth. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Pointers Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 11:21 PM To: tigers@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? Couple of loving taps and the fuel new pump came to life. As Mayf had said in a message to me, the loose distrib nut was probably a lark. I cranked it while fully loosened and it didn't rotate. Something else is amiss. I slowly moved the dist around while I cranked and it only came to life near full lock right, but ran poor. Spoke to Tony. Will try some things. Probably after the weekend. This cat's staying home from the party. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt@aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 09:18:57 2010 From: Owain Lloyd To: "rfraser@bluefrog.com" Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 15:52:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? sound like timing still On Saturday, August 7, 2010, Ron Fraser wrote: > Moving the distributor to full lock right may indicate that the > distributor gear is worn or your timing chain is worn. One of them > probably jumped a tooth. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Pointers > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 11:21 PM > To: tigers@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? > > > Couple of loving taps and the fuel new pump came to life. > As Mayf had said in a message to me, the loose distrib nut was probably a > lark. I cranked it while fully loosened and it didn't rotate. Something else > is amiss. I slowly moved the dist around while I cranked and it only came to > life near full lock right, but ran poor. Spoke to Tony. Will try some > things. Probably after the weekend. This cat's staying home from the party. > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 17:34:58 2010 From: jliny5@cox.net To: "Tom Parker" , Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 22:59:17 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Steve A second thanks. The Smiths clock I have in my Mk1 is exactly as you described except it has white hands. I heard that "some" of the Smiths clocks that came in the Mk1s had the white hands. Does that sound right? Since mine is has also not working I also will also be looking to Nisonger to convert it to quartz. Jim Lindner Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Tom Parker Sender: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 18:33:02 To: Steve Laifman Cc: LIST TIGER Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Thanks, Steve! I have a Mark 1 clock on the way to fill the hole in my new dash, and when I have the speedometer calibrated I'll ask Peter at Nisonger to convert it to quartz. I think he does that. There are "small number" clocks for sale in England, but the ones I saw have white hands. Maybe Peter can paint them... Again, the depth of knowledge on this site is amazing. Thanks to all. Tom On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Steve Laifman wrote: > Tom, and Michael, > > Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tom. Now I "have" to answer the > question. > > Michael is correct. > > There were many clock faces used by Smiths for Sunbeam Alpines and Tigers > (all "dealer options). Bottom line: > > - The Sunbeam Tiger Mk I used Smiths CE 3030/00, which is in my car. > The 3 and 9 are sideways, and the bottom timing adjust and time set are on > the bottom sides, and the hands are red. > > Smiths CE 3030/00 > > Smiths CE 3131/01 > > In summary, > > The MkIA and MkII used Smiths CE 3131/01. The 3 and 9 are upright, and > correct number for your car. > > Unfortunately, due to List space restrictions, only you and Michael King > will get a directly sent version that does have the pictures. > > As an additional piece of information, these clocks were electric wind-up, > and may not be working. Never fear, a solution is possible. A good > instrument shop that deals in Smiths, can replace the mechanism with a > quartz VDO guts in the original shell. The VDO movement is reported to be > extremely accurate. Who knows, if mine fails, I'll have to consider this. > > Steve Laifman > > Editor > > http://TigersUnited.com > > > michael king wrote: > > The MKII used the later model clock as per sunbeam alpine SV, this has the > smaller numbers with the 9 and 3 vertical. > > its smiths part #CE3131/01 > > On 5 August 2010 05:34, Tom Parker wrote: > > > > This is mainly a question for Steve Laifman, I think he's addressed it > before; if anyone else knows please chip in: > > Steve, > > Which clock was used in the ' 67 Tiger 2? I know the diameter is 60 mm (@ 2 > 3/8") and the hands are orange, but I think I read you mentioned a > difference in the numbers. I can't find the original post. > > Tom > _______________________________________________ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of CE_3030_00.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of CE_3131_01.jpg] _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jliny5@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 19:47:34 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:05:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Mk2 Eyebrow Hi all. I am interested in buying a Mk2 eyebrow (grille surround) for my Tiger. I understand these are a bit wider than the Mk1 style. Does anyone have one or know of one I could buy? Please email me privately. Thanks in advance. M _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 19:49:23 2010 From: michael king To: jliny5@cox.net Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 11:10:06 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock On 08/08/2010, jliny5@cox.net wrote: > Steve > > A second thanks. The Smiths clock I have in my Mk1 is exactly as you > described except it has white hands. I heard that "some" of the Smiths > clocks that came in the Mk1s had the white hands. Does that sound right? >> Jim Lindner > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > I dont think the clock should have white hands.. the only cars that should have possibly a clock with white hands and the rest of the gauges red needled is a early S3 alpine when they corssed over from the white to red neddle instruments (S2 to S3). The red hand clocks were standard fittment for over 1 year by the time the tiger came out. That said.. it doesnt mean a delaer didnt fit a clock they happen to have in stock.. but to be corrcet it should have the red hands. Are the numbers on it correct for a Tiger clock (as in the CE numbers)? -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 21:47:37 2010 From: jliny5@cox.net To: "michael king" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 03:14:55 +0000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Oops...2194/09. The search begins. Jim ------Original Message------ From: michael king To: jliny5@cox.net Cc: Tom Parker Cc: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Cc: Steve Laifman Cc: LIST TIGER Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Sent: Aug 7, 2010 9:10 PM On 08/08/2010, jliny5@cox.net wrote: > Steve > > A second thanks. The Smiths clock I have in my Mk1 is exactly as you > described except it has white hands. I heard that "some" of the Smiths > clocks that came in the Mk1s had the white hands. Does that sound right? >> Jim Lindner > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > I dont think the clock should have white hands.. the only cars that should have possibly a clock with white hands and the rest of the gauges red needled is a early S3 alpine when they corssed over from the white to red neddle instruments (S2 to S3). The red hand clocks were standard fittment for over 1 year by the time the tiger came out. That said.. it doesnt mean a delaer didnt fit a clock they happen to have in stock.. but to be corrcet it should have the red hands. Are the numbers on it correct for a Tiger clock (as in the CE numbers)? -- Regards Michael King Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 7 22:48:07 2010 From: michael king To: jliny5@cox.net Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:19:22 +1000 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock Jim, Indeed. The MKI clock is a very rare item.. here are the smiths clocks used in Sunbeams: *Smiths Part No. * * Rootes Part No*. *Series or MK * *Remarks * CE.2194/08 5220274 SI + Gnd / White / 3&9 Sideways / Adj. top CE.2194/09 5220381 SI, SII + Gnd / White / 3&9 Sideways / Adj. bottom CE.2194/14 5220673 S3, SIV + Gnd / Red / 3&9 Sideways / Adj. bottom CE.3030/00 1228949 MKI only - Gnd / Red / 3&9 Sideways / Adj. bottom CE.3131/01 1235815 SV, MKIa, MKII - Gnd / Red / 3&9 Upright / Adj. bottom pictures can be seen at: http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?categoryid=82&p2_articleid=7 On 8 August 2010 13:14, wrote: > Oops...2194/09. > > The search begins. > > Jim > ------Original Message------ > From: michael king > To: jliny5@cox.net > Cc: Tom Parker > Cc: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net > Cc: Steve Laifman > Cc: LIST TIGER > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Clock > Sent: Aug 7, 2010 9:10 PM > > On 08/08/2010, jliny5@cox.net wrote: > > Steve > > > > A second thanks. The Smiths clock I have in my Mk1 is exactly as you > > described except it has white hands. I heard that "some" of the Smiths > > clocks that came in the Mk1s had the white hands. Does that sound right? > >> Jim Lindner > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > I dont think the clock should have white hands.. the only cars that > should have possibly a clock with white hands and the rest of the > gauges red needled is a early S3 alpine when they corssed over from > the white to red neddle instruments (S2 to S3). > > The red hand clocks were standard fittment for over 1 year by the time > the tiger came out. That said.. it doesnt mean a delaer didnt fit a > clock they happen to have in stock.. but to be corrcet it should have > the red hands. Are the numbers on it correct for a Tiger clock (as in > the CE numbers)? > > -- > Regards > > Michael King > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 06:50:39 2010 From: "denis mercier" To: "Would U. Believe" , Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 08:17:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Mk2 Eyebrow M. I have a MKII survivor for sale, car has severe rust but can be restored. Car is original and have all the specific MKII parts. Denis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Would U. Believe" To: Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: [Tigers] Mk2 Eyebrow > Hi all. I am interested in buying a Mk2 eyebrow (grille surround) for my > Tiger. I understand these are a bit wider than the Mk1 style. Does > anyone > have one or know of one I could buy? Please email me privately. Thanks > in > advance. M > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/denismercier@telvic.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 10:05:59 2010 From: George Re To: tigers@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 15:42:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Door Stops Hi: I am looking for a set of tiger doors stops does anyone have any for sale or know where i can get them. Thanks again George Re 65 Tiger _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 12:55:28 2010 From: "rande" To: michael.s.king@gmail.com Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:12:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger clocks I checked my clock face information,needle color, and adjustment location, and sure enough, it matches your list for Tiger 1A's (car# 48)(read carefully, NOT #46). The Alpine section of the parts catalogue lists your Rootes part number for the clock, the section for the Tiger and Alpine 260 and V8 shows Rootes number 1229322, and is also listed in BON, but I think Rootes might have confused this number with that for the cigarette lighter kit. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 16:34:29 2010 From: "Bob Hokanson" To: "Tigers" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:49:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Door Stops > Hi: I am looking for a set of tiger doors stops Would a Tiger door stop be the stock 260 engine or am I thinking of a Tiger boat anchor? Ooh! I love talking trash :-) _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 16:49:49 2010 From: Tom Parker To: LIST TIGER Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 18:24:49 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Rims and Tires So I want to put bigger feet on the Kitty. Lots of reasons, but the basic plan is to someday upgrade the brakes, either to Dale's front / rear disk setup or the Wilwood setup Tim Suddard mentioned recently in Classic Motorsports and Wilwood confirmed is in the works. My personal experience tells me stopping is good. Almost as good as going fast, and maybe better. The car is on jack stands, so measuring for tires should be easy. Well... maybe. I built a jig that fits on the front hub since turning seems to be the main problem. The idea is to get the car a bit higher off the ground, so I figured a nominal 24" diameter tire would do the job and maybe get me a bit better mileage in the process. I set the jig up with a positive offset of @ 26mm (1 inch) because I'd read somewhere that was what needed to be on the front. A good starting point. It didn't work. Assuming 24" diameter and 8" tire body width the tire contacted the back outside edge of the valence. Fine if I wanted to go straight, but sooner or later I'm gonna have to turn. Obviously I'm missing something. So I measured a stock 4 1/2" x 13" rim. The stock offset is about a positive 1 1/2 inches. (that is, the mating surface to the hub is about an inch and a half closer to the front edge than the center line. so the tire sits further into the wheel well.) I measured this way: Lay the rim face down on the floor and measure edge to edge. Distance is 5 9/16 inches. Measure to inside lug hole is 1 3/8" with a builder's square Center line is 2.78" less hub distance of 1.375 is 1.405" positive offset (@ 35mm). Whew! Got long winded there. Here's the question: When looking at Minilite, Panasport, or Superlite wheels is their offset in addition to the factory offset of @ 35mm or in place of it? Logic tells me it has to be in addition to the stock offset, but I don't KNOW that. DrMayf? Steve? Tom? Anybody? Tom ' 67 Mark 2 _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 19:38:09 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Tiger's Den Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:13:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Removal of VIN number To add some light, not fire, to the VIN issue. I am sure these thing vary by state, like some don't use the VIN at all for registration./ In California, however: 10.7.51 of the CA. motor vehicle code: It is illegal to remove or alter the vin # of a motor vehicle.....Should an altered vin # be encountered (which includes method of attachment) at best the tag is seized, and a state tag will be placed on the vehicle in place of the original (that'll really help if you ever go to sell the car). Should the vehicle not have a secondary #, to authenticate its identity, the vehicle will be crushed. / These guys mean business. Chop shops, and other fraudulent identifications, are of concern. Here are some discussions about the removal, or alteration, of a VIN number is illegal, without specific CHP (California Highway Patrol) inspection and permission. They mean business, and serious charges can be filed. /* http://www.classictiger.com/vinopin.html */ Thanks to ClassicTiger.com article, the contributor's and a "fair and balanced" reporting. And specially to Mark Olson for the site and the content providers, and Norman Miler for his TAC efforts. Steve -- Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 21:22:58 2010 From: "Steven L. Finberg" To: "Pointers" Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 23:01:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? < Yes, I'll have to get it done. < I think it's a very slow release thing. Don't think I'm deluged with < crud. The filter didn't have much. < The only line I blew out was the output line, from the carb back. Now is the time.. The bits of crud in the filter are a side show. The real problem causing you to stop are much larger flakes completley blocking the tank exit. You can blow them back into the tank but it is very short lived.. I couldn't find any chemical I would be willing to put in the tank that would attack the chips. MEK didn't touch it... Roots used a good coating.. But it's bond to the metal is slowly failing.. I finally used quit a bit of mechanical abrasion inside the tank to get most out.. Good luck Steve F ******************************************************************************* Steve Finberg W1GSL w1gsl@mit.edu PO Box 397082 MIT Br Cambridge MA 02139-7082 617 258 3754 ******************************************************************************* _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 22:50:08 2010 From: David T Johnson To: "Steven L. Finberg" , Pointers Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 21:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? CAT newsletter tech tip had a 2 part series on cleaning and coating your tanks. Part 2 was printed in Feb 2004. Dave ________________________________ From: Steven L. Finberg To: Pointers Cc: tigers@autox.team.net Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 11:01:51 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Barely running - suddenly - input pls? < Yes, I'll have to get it done. < I think it's a very slow release thing. Don't think I'm deluged with < crud. The filter didn't have much. < The only line I blew out was the output line, from the carb back. Now is the time.. The bits of crud in the filter are a side show. The real problem causing you to stop are much larger flakes completley blocking the tank exit. You can blow them back into the tank but it is very short lived.. I couldn't find any chemical I would be willing to put in the tank that would attack the chips. MEK didn't touch it... Roots used a good coating.. But it's bond to the metal is slowly failing.. I finally used quit a bit of mechanical abrasion inside the tank to get most out.. Good luck Steve F ***************************************************************************** ** Steve Finberg W1GSL w1gsl@mit.edu PO Box 397082 MIT Br Cambridge MA 02139-7082 617 258 3754 ***************************************************************************** ** _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/djoh797014@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 8 23:47:13 2010 From: michael king To: Tiger Talk List Tiger Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:23:08 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] GT5 Tigers and sunbeams While i havent played computer games in a while.. this might tempt me to buy a playstation 3.. GT5 has come out an in the huge list of cars: SUNBEAM Sunbeam Alpine '61 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop '66 Sunbeam Imp Sport '66 Sunbeam Imp Sport Mk. II '67 Sunbeam Imp Sport Mk. III '68 Sunbeam Stiletto '67 SUNBEAMTALBOT SunbeamTalbot Rapier H120 ' SunbeamTalbot Tiger 289 ' For those who have played previous GT series.. you know that you will be able to modify them and make them into racers.. i wonder if they will have HSC55 F74 sehlby, works rally Tigers? and perhaps Lemans alpines? Is there gogin to be a LM Tiger? I note the MKII Tiger has been listed as Sunbeam Talbot 289 One would assuem the imps will be modfied to Fraser/Hartwell/Robson spec... -- Regards Michael King _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 01:23:24 2010 From: "Buck Trippel" To: Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 23:53:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Pre Reunion Just got home from Monterey for a couple day breather before heading back. All the Tigers survived the Pre Reunion racing weekend in good shape. John Morton was the quickest of the three Tiger drivers and finished 7th in one race and 11th in the other. (To be fair to John, I sent him out in today's race (11th finish) on the most worn tires I brought. I did this to save the new tires for next weekend. And his 7th place finish yesterday was quite a climb up from his 24th starting position - the race committee had tried experimenting with a unique but bizarre way to set the grid that I doubt they'll ever try again. ) We had about 45 entrants in our class but I only saw about 35 on the grid. Tom Sakai managed a personal best getting his Tiger into "the forties" for lap time (1:49.xxx). Tom Hall stopped by today. Peter Thompson from Sydney and Peter McDonald from B.C. were able to hang out for most of the day. It was great to visit with all of them. (Peter just completed a Tiger drive to Alaska and back.) Yesterday, Doug Lyle, who owns the Boskoff/Shelby prototype came by for a couple hours. We were able to hook him up with some of the very knowledgeable Cobra owners who helped him with his search for a "correct" replacement engine for the prototype. We wish him well in his effort to care for this crucial part of the history of this marque. Buck Trippel _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 04:47:26 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: drmayf , , Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 06:21:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Disaster strikes! Sir, the data you have lost is certainly all recoverable! Please do not create any new files, which would then overwrite the space where the old files were, decreasing your chances of recovering the old files. Please ask for expert help locally. You will be happy you did. M On 8/8/10 9:14 PM, "drmayf" wrote: > Here of late, I have been experiencing some serious computer issues. So > today, I decided to see if I could find the cause. I ran a program to > check for malicious software hiding in cookies and such. None found. The > I ran a Norton Internet Security system scan (900,000 files, ouch!) > with no issues. So then after heming and hawing I decided to do a disk > cleanup. So I open the program files and went to accessories. I > selected disk cleanup. I let it run though the C drive and it found > that it coul dclean around 237 MB of dsk space up. So I looked over it > carefully (but not carefully enough) and I cehcked a box that said Win > ME/Installation files.. Gulped and hit the button. Near instant > disaster. after a second or two, the screen blinked and everything that > was not native XP disappeared! Literally. That included all of my excel > files I developed for the web site I have, all of the speciality > programs for various folk, all WOrd files are gone, all files under the > my douments are gone: all the pdf files I have collected for the last 10 > years... Even at that as the screen blinked, I had hit cancel hoping it > would reverse the file catastrophe that had happened. Unfortunately now. > The blasted thing also did nto creat a system restore point before doing > the dastardly deed either. Oh, my email client also disappeared which > had my 10 years of collected tiger, alpine, and race car stuff on it. > If I didn't live on a ground floor I would jump out the window. > > I am going to continue to recover this, how, I do not know yet, but if > any of you do, please shoot me a note and tell me how. Also, since my > address book and everything else went out with teh email client, then > how about those of you who have coresponde with me ove the years, drop > me a short email so I can add you back into a addy book. Anybody I was > working with, please send my your addy for sure! > > Dan NIcoson, send me your two email addy's? Dave Adin? > > What a mess, lol... > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mcdangerous@verizon.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 08:11:23 2010 From: Cullen McCann To: "'michael king'" , "'Tiger Talk List Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 08:42:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] GT5 Tigers and sunbeams That's actually quite cool IMO...i too haven't played in years, but I used too. Also, like discussed on another thread about what helps the market on our cars value and what doesn't....i would guess that seeing Tigers and Alpines in popular video games would be great for increased market exposure and eventually collector value increases for the cars.... I'm actually quite flattered that they would include them.... GT5 has come out an in the huge list of cars: SUNBEAM Sunbeam Alpine '61 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop '66 Sunbeam Imp Sport '66 Sunbeam Imp Sport Mk. II '67 Sunbeam Imp Sport Mk. III '68 Sunbeam Stiletto '67 SUNBEAMTALBOT SunbeamTalbot Rapier H120 ' SunbeamTalbot Tiger 289 ' For those who have played previous GT series.. you know that you will be able to modify them and make them into racers.. i wonder if they will have HSC55 F74 sehlby, works rally Tigers? and perhaps Lemans alpines? Is there gogin to be a LM Tiger? I note the MKII Tiger has been listed as Sunbeam Talbot 289 One would assuem the imps will be modfied to Fraser/Hartwell/Robson spec... _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 08:56:02 2010 From: "Smit, Theo" To: Tom Parker , LIST TIGER Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:29:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rims and Tires Many tires, even though they are listed with the same nominal 205mm section width, vary widely in the shoulder profile. It's tough to figure out where the shoulders of the tires are going to be without having an actual tire mounted on a rim of the correct width. If you're going to a larger diameter and push the section width on the tires then you'll very likely have to trim or roll the front fender lip and the rear edge of the front valence. I'm running 205/45-16 tires on 7" Mustang rims (39 mm offset, IIRC) with a 7/16" spacer and then the 1/4" brake hat. So that effectively takes out about 18mm of the offset. I had to trim the valence to make that work... The offset specified for the Panasport wheels is a stand-alone measurement - not added to the OEM value. Theo > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tom Parker > Sent: August 8, 2010 4:25 PM > To: LIST TIGER > Subject: [Tigers] Rims and Tires > > So I want to put bigger feet on the Kitty. Lots of reasons, but the > basic > plan is to someday upgrade the brakes, either to Dale's front / rear > disk > setup or the Wilwood setup Tim Suddard mentioned recently in Classic > Motorsports and Wilwood confirmed is in the works. My personal > experience > tells me stopping is good. Almost as good as going fast, and maybe > better. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 09:55:38 2010 From: Tom Parker To: "Smit, Theo" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 11:39:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rims and Tires Theo, Thanks. Just what I needed. Looking at the Superlite site I figured out (finally) that "Offset" is in the eye of the describer, but "Backspace" is the important measurement. Their's is @ 4" fo the 6" wide x 15" rim (offset 24mm if I remember correctly). The stock 4 1/2" rims have about the same backspace. So no danger of interference on the back side, but the front side sticks out a bit further. Backspace, BTW is measured differently than offset. Offset is to the tire lip (inside of the rim, backspace is to the outside of the rim. Or I think that's how it works. So when I set the jig up for 4" backspace (implies 3" "front space on a 6" rim because we're measuring outside edge to outside edge) a 24" diameter tire is too close (but not interfering), and a 23 1/2" diameter tire looks like it'll work. I hope. Hard to tell because even with the engine in the car I don't get much spring compression. It looks like a 195/55 R15 will work at 23.4" diameter, but I'll test it on the front before I install tires on the rear. I'd really like a bit less footprint on the front for easier steering. Tom On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Smit, Theo wrote: > Many tires, even though they are listed with the same nominal 205mm section > width, vary widely in the shoulder profile. > It's tough to figure out where the shoulders of the tires are going to be > without having an actual tire mounted on a rim of the correct width. > > If you're going to a larger diameter and push the section width on the > tires then you'll very likely have to trim or roll the front fender lip and > the rear edge of the front valence. > > I'm running 205/45-16 tires on 7" Mustang rims (39 mm offset, IIRC) with a > 7/16" spacer and then the 1/4" brake hat. So that effectively takes out > about 18mm of the offset. I had to trim the valence to make that work... > > The offset specified for the Panasport wheels is a stand-alone measurement > - not added to the OEM value. > Theo > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers- > > bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tom Parker > > Sent: August 8, 2010 4:25 PM > > To: LIST TIGER > > Subject: [Tigers] Rims and Tires > > > > So I want to put bigger feet on the Kitty. Lots of reasons, but the > > basic > > plan is to someday upgrade the brakes, either to Dale's front / rear > > disk > > setup or the Wilwood setup Tim Suddard mentioned recently in Classic > > Motorsports and Wilwood confirmed is in the works. My personal > > experience > > tells me stopping is good. Almost as good as going fast, and maybe > > better. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the > sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, > please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this > e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > Thank you for your cooperation. _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 11:52:49 2010 From: "Dave Munroe" To: "Tom Parker" , "Smit, Theo" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:35:30 -0300 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rims and Tires Tom: You are shooting for my set-up. I have 15 X 5 1/2" rims on the front; 15 X 6" on the rear. I Just changed my front tires to 185/55 R15 (Yokohama S-Drive's), and have 205/50R15 86V A539 Yokohama's on the rear. I also have Wilwood's on the front. Some observations: this front wheel/tire size does not interfere with the fender lips. It also provides good clearance for the Wilwood's. I had previously fitted 190/60 R15's on the front, but wore out the front edges in 8,000 miles of mostly touring-type driving. The rears still have more than 60% of the tread left). The diagnosis was too much camber. I was running 1/8" of toe-out. The stock specs may be fine for the original skinny 13" wheels, but these wider tires need less camber and toe. (but not much!) We cut it in half and are watching tire wear closely. I have found that these tire sizes stiffen/harden the ride considerably from the stock tire sizes. They also vastly improve cornering and accel. braking/traction. For the kind of driving my wife and I do (mostly touring with some fooling around on twisty roads and the odd burn-out when called for). They are too stiff for us. When this set wears out we are going to experiment with taller, narrower tires to try and get a bit more comfort in the ride. I hope this helps with some perspective. Depending on where you live and the condition of the roads, tire stiffness may not be an issue. Dave > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rims and Tires > Theo, > > Thanks. Just what I needed. > > Looking at the Superlite site I figured out (finally) that "Offset" is in > the eye of the describer, but "Backspace" is the important measurement. > Their's is @ 4" fo the 6" wide x 15" rim (offset 24mm if I remember > correctly). The stock 4 1/2" rims have about the same backspace. So no > danger of interference on the back side, but the front side sticks out a > bit > further. > > Backspace, BTW is measured differently than offset. Offset is to the tire > lip (inside of the rim, backspace is to the outside of the rim. Or I think > that's how it works. > > So when I set the jig up for 4" backspace (implies 3" "front space on a 6" > rim because we're measuring outside edge to outside edge) a 24" diameter > tire is too close (but not interfering), and a 23 1/2" diameter tire looks > like it'll work. I hope. > > Hard to tell because even with the engine in the car I don't get much > spring > compression. It looks like a 195/55 R15 will work at 23.4" diameter, but > I'll test it on the front before I install tires on the rear. I'd really > like a bit less footprint on the front for easier steering. > > Tom _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 14:38:11 2010 From: Steve Laifman To: Cullen McCann Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:11:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] GT5 Tigers and sunbeams Cullen, Thanks for the GT5 info. I've broken more cars than I care to disclose on the previous GT's. However, it is not stated if the Tiger has been thru TAC. < 9> ) Steve Steve Laifman Editor http://TigersUnited.com Cullen McCann wrote: > That's actually quite cool IMO...i too haven't played in years, but I used > too. Also, like discussed on another thread about what helps the market on > our cars value and what doesn't....i would guess that seeing Tigers and > Alpines in popular video games would be great for increased market exposure > and eventually collector value increases for the cars.... > > I'm actually quite flattered that they would include them.... > > > > > > GT5 has come out an in the huge list of cars: > > SUNBEAM > Sunbeam Alpine '61 > Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop '66 > Sunbeam Imp Sport '66 > Sunbeam Imp Sport Mk. II '67 > Sunbeam Imp Sport Mk. III '68 > Sunbeam Stiletto '67 > > SUNBEAMTALBOT > SunbeamTalbot Rapier H120 ' > SunbeamTalbot Tiger 289 ' > > > For those who have played previous GT series.. you know that you will be > able to modify them and make them into racers.. i wonder if they will > have HSC55 F74 sehlby, works rally Tigers? and perhaps Lemans alpines? > > Is there gogin to be a LM Tiger? > I note the MKII Tiger has been listed as Sunbeam Talbot 289 > One would assuem the imps will be modfied to Fraser/Hartwell/Robson spec... > ____ _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 20:39:10 2010 From: DAVID GREEN To: Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 20:19:32 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] LAT 9 Center cap project ready to go Okay all you Sunbeam Tiger owners. I am just about ready to produce a limited run of center caps for the LAT 9 wheels. They will be raw aluminum machined on a CNC machine with the cut out center tigers head. The max outside diameter will be 2 1/4" that has the taper to the top. The height will be 3/4". I believe Tiger Tom did these in the 80's or 90's?? I think this is one of his examples that we are using for the template. As of now I will be doing about 30 caps.The cost per cap will be $30 without shipping. If I can get a run of 50 I can drop this to $25 each. I will be needing a firm commitment from all interested. Within the next 2 week I should be getting a sample of the finished cap. I have not seen any mention of my project in any of the Sunbeam Clubs publications. I wish that would have happened so Sunbeam Tiger owners that are not computer literate can benefit from this. If you need to see a picture of the sample we are using contact me and I will e-mail a jpg out. If you know of anyone who may be interested please give my information to them. My history with Sunbeams, I am a member with TEAE, CAT,& STOA. For quite a few years. Been on the Tiger list for near 10 years. Been to SUNI 3, 4, & 5 Owned Sunbeams Since 1982 and Tigers since 1998. Contact; Dave Green 2113 S. Avenida Planeta Tucson, Az. 85710 520-747-2901 message _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 20:39:46 2010 From: "Clyde McLaughlin" To: Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:23:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] social event Hi Listers, A reminder of a social event in Annapolis, MD, at the Fleet Researve Club, Saturday the 14th at 7:00 pm...This is not a car event, dinner, refreshment, stories and lies, spouces and friends included, let me know for a head count, thanks, Clyde _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 21:38:02 2010 From: jliny5@cox.net To: Tigers@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 03:29:30 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] First crisis Hello Listers I have now been the proud owner of a 1965 Tiger Mk1 (B9470033) for all of a few days. It was fully restored about 7 years ago and has about 7000 miles since then. It is pretty much stock but it does have electronic ignition. I drove the 175 miles home to Alexandriaan VA on Sat. It was a beautiful drive. On Sunday eve I took it for a short spin and it ran perfectly. I turned off the car to go into the house. I came back out a few minutes later to pull the car into the garage. When I tried to start it the engine would not turnover, but I did hear a whirring/grinding noise. At this point I let it sit for the night. This morning I tried and it started first try. This afternoon it started again after sitting all day. I stalled it backing out and when I went to restart I again got the whirring/ grinding noise that sounds like the starter trying to engage. I checked the charge on the battery...it's fine. I have not been able to check starter very well due to its location. I will be the first to admit I am not a master mechanic but it sure sounds like the starter, but why does the car start after sitting for sevrral hours. I apologize for the long email. Any thoughts or recommended courses of action. Thanks. Jim Lindner Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 22:08:11 2010 From: To: Tigers@autox.team.net, jliny5@cox.net Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 20:57:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [Tigers] First crisis In a word, heat. If I get stuck in a line of stop and go for 15 or 20 minutes, line to get into Laguna Seca, Driving in a parade, etc. my starter will not spin at all if I stall the car. It acts just like a dead battery. Let it sit for 15 or 20 minutes and it will start like normal. On my car the headers put a lot of heat into the starter, something changes size and locks up my starter. Replace the starter and it will probably solve your problem. ---- jliny5@cox.net wrote: > Hello Listers > > I have now been the proud owner of a 1965 Tiger Mk1 (B9470033) for all of a few days. It was fully restored about 7 years ago and has about 7000 miles since then. It is pretty much stock but it does have electronic ignition. > > I drove the 175 miles home to Alexandriaan VA on Sat. It was a beautiful drive. On Sunday eve I took it for a short spin and it ran perfectly. I turned off the car to go into the house. I came back out a few minutes later to pull the car into the garage. When I tried to start it the engine would not turnover, but I did hear a whirring/grinding noise. > > At this point I let it sit for the night. This morning I tried and it started first try. This afternoon it started again after sitting all day. I stalled it backing out and when I went to restart I again got the whirring/ grinding noise that sounds like the starter trying to engage. > > I checked the charge on the battery...it's fine. I have not been able to check starter very well due to its location. > > I will be the first to admit I am not a master mechanic but it sure sounds like the starter, but why does the car start after sitting for sevrral hours. > > I apologize for the long email. Any thoughts or recommended courses of action. > > Thanks. > > Jim Lindner > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/e.coiner@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 9 22:35:51 2010 From: Tony Somebody To: Tigers@autox.team.net, jliny5@cox.net, e.coiner@cox.net Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 21:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Tigers] First crisis So why not make a heat shield so the heat from the headers is reflected away from the starter. I have one of those mini starter and my Tiger has never had that problem from the headers BUT either I have a messed up gauge, sending unit or the coolest running engine Ive ever owned and I even changed thermostats incase it was stickig- turned ot to be the same degrre that I bought- it was a real Ford stat and expensive, I bought a 190 for this winter as it gets so cold that last winter I had to put cardboard in front of the radiator at Thanksgiving returing from Wva to southern IL. It was snowing by the time I pulled in for gas at the Evansville exit, so it had been above freezing up till then or it had not rained ir snowed at least. I think I will invest in one of those inside outside thermomaters for what driving I do this winter- no snow driving, this Tiger goes around in cicles very easily, my 66 1A was great o snow, I drove like a crazy man- prhaps I was BUT I had to be at work in time to make coffe for the superintendent- they shipped my crane out and I bumpd the tool room man- he made less and hour but got an hour overtime for making coffe befor starting time and blowing the start siren- couldnt be late, so the Tiger passed everone, just as it did on dry roads. I love driving a Sunbeam Tiger. TtT --- On Mon, 8/9/10, e.coiner@cox.net wrote: From: e.coiner@cox.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] First crisis To: Tigers@autox.team.net, jliny5@cox.net Date: Monday, August 9, 2010, 10:57 PM In a word, heat. If I get stuck in a line of stop and go for 15 or 20 minutes, line to get into Laguna Seca, Driving in a parade, etc. my starter will not spin at all if I stall the car. It acts just like a dead battery. Let it sit for 15 or 20 minutes and it will start like normal. On my car the headers put a lot of heat into the starter, something changes size and locks up my starter. Replace the starter and it will probably solve your problem. ---- jliny5@cox.net wrote: > Hello Listers > > I have now been the proud owner of a 1965 Tiger Mk1 (B9470033) for all of a few days. It was fully restored about 7 years ago and has about 7000 miles since then. It is pretty much stock but it does have electronic ignition. > > I drove the 175 miles home to Alexandriaan VA on Sat. It was a beautiful drive. On Sunday eve I took it for a short spin and it ran perfectly. I turned off the car to go into the house. I came back out a few minutes later to pull the car into the garage. When I tried to start it the engine would not turnover, but I did hear a whirring/grinding noise. > > At this point I let it sit for the night. This morning I tried and it started first try. This afternoon it started again after sitting all day. I stalled it backing out and when I went to restart I again got the whirring/ grinding noise that sounds like the starter trying to engage. > > I checked the charge on the battery...it's fine. I have not been able to check starter very well due to its location. > > I will be the first to admit I am not a master mechanic but it sure sounds like the starter, but why does the car start after sitting for sevrral hours. > > I apologize for the long email. Any thoughts or recommended courses of action. > > Thanks. > > Jim Lindner > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > Tigers@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/e.coiner@cox.net _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 10 04:37:08 2010 From: " Ron Fraser" To: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 06:37:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] First crisis Jim Heat is causing the starter to not engage properly; whether a rebuild is required is difficult to say. Original Ford starter motor # is C2OZ-11002-A I don't recommend you exchange this starter for a new one, if you think it needs to be replaced, until the new one is in place and works. I have talked to a few Tiger owners who exchanged their starter, the new starter did not fit and the original starter was now gone. I prefer to keep any Tiger part because it is your only clue to what might be a special configuration made specifically for the Tiger engine. I recommend finding someone who will rebuild your starter. It is very possible it only needs to be cleaned and lubed to get it to engage. I never had that problem on my Tiger but I had my starter rebuilt after it started to turn slower on cold and hot start. Never had a problem since then and never a hot start problem. New bushings and brushes can do wonders for a tired starter. A heat shield for the starter can't hurt either, it depends on your headers and the heat generated. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jliny5@cox.net Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:30 PM To: Tigers@autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] First crisis Hello Listers I have now been the proud owner of a 1965 Tiger Mk1 (B9470033) for all of a few days. It was fully restored about 7 years ago and has about 7000 miles since then. It is pretty much stock but it does have electronic ignition. I drove the 175 miles home to Alexandriaan VA on Sat. It was a beautiful drive. On Sunday eve I took it for a short spin and it ran perfectly. I turned off the car to go into the house. I came back out a few minutes later to pull the car into the garage. When I tried to start it the engine would not turnover, but I did hear a whirring/grinding noise. At this point I let it sit for the night. This morning I tried and it started first try. This afternoon it started again after sitting all day. I stalled it backing out and when I went to restart I again got the whirring/ grinding noise that sounds like the starter trying to engage. I checked the charge on the battery...it's fine. I have not been able to check starter very well due to its location. I will be the first to admit I am not a master mechanic but it sure sounds like the starter, but why does the car start after sitting for sevrral hours. I apologize for the long email. Any thoughts or recommended courses of action. Thanks. Jim Lindner _______________________________________________ Tigers@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums From tigers-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 10 05:21:58 2010 From: "Would U. Believe" To: , Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:09:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [Tigers] First crisis Jim, Greetings from Northern Virginia (oh yes, that's where you are too!). To me, this sounds like a classic Porsche story. When the heat builds up, the starter solenoid can get stuck. A quick couple of non-violent whacks with a wrench or small hammer is the old trick to get the plunger un-stuck. The right-hand exhaust downpipe or header runs very close to the starter, which makes it possible, if not probable, that this is your problem. You