[6pack] won't start

Fri Jul 6 14:43:47 MDT 2018

James, 

There's no point in a compression test based on what you have outlined thus far. Even if your compression were weak, it wouldn't be the cause of intermittent starting. That's an electrical issue. 

So, let's recap: 

New plugs and leads 
New cap, rotor, points and condenser. 
OLD COIL! 

Coils can misbehave when they get cranky as a result of the insulation between the windings breaking down over time. The ramification of this is a variance in output voltage which can depend on temperature or the general mood it's in. Get a new coil. 

As for the smoke, I'm going to assume it's black (from unburned fuel) because you've messed with the mixture and didn't have any smoke before you did that. This in itself isn't abnormal; you'll probably have to lean things out a bit. TR6 engines don't typically want to be choked for very long so once it will idle, even roughly, kill the choke and let it warm up thoroughly before you adjust the mixture...which you should do about 1/4 turn of the needles at a time. As you know, the "choke" isn't technically a choke. When you pull the choke knob, you're actually adding fuel via what they call the throttle box. Make sure that at idle, the throttle box adjusters are sitting right against their stops on the carb bodies so that there's no extra fuel getting getting into the discussion. 

NOTE: If your throttle shaft bushings are worn, and they are unless you've replaced them recently, mixture adjustment will be frustrating and a bit hit and miss. Check your timing and dwell when you have it idling. Make sure all of your vacuum lines are connected properly. If you've plugged the vacuum system by inserting a piece of something into the air line that connects to the distributor (and most of us have done this, I believe), you'll have to advance the spark compared to what the manual says. I haven't checked my timing in a long time but my vacuum system (it's a retarding system, not advancing, by the way) is disabled and I think I'm at close to 8-10 deg BTDC. 

Colin 
74-1/2 

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Subject: 6pack Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4 

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Today's Topics: 

1. Re: Won?t start (James_) 
2. Re: Won?t start (James_) 

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Message: 1 
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 01:50:26 +0000 
From: James_ <jattr6 at hotmail.com> 
To: "6pack at autox.team.net" <6pack at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [6pack] Won?t start 
Message-ID: 
<MWHPR13MB12481D7A82B17D10970CAF4580400 at MWHPR13MB1248.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 

Ok, and just like that it decides to start up. But runs like crap. I can see smoke from the tailpipe now where prior to my issues I never saw any smoke. 
So is something in the cylinders messed up now? I have new plugs and wires. I even disconnected one wire and placed a spare plug just to confirm I had a spark. I do. 

Maybe the carbs are even more messed up but I thought I had them tuned well. But the engine was hot. 
The choke (even though properly measured/adjusted) seems to now make the car run horrible. So I have to push it mostly off. 
The carbs are adjusted about 1.75 turns from full rich. Idle screws are mostly loosened because I needed to while adjusting/syncing the two. 

I guess the next step is a compression test to see if I have a dead cylinder. Ugh. No... still doesn?t explain why no spark at the plugs and magically now I do. 

It?s never easy... tired of ?character building? obstacles. 

?Sent from my Atari 2600? 

> On Jul 4, 2018, at 4:46 PM, James_ via 6pack <6pack at autox.team.net> wrote: 
> 
> Ok, I?ve never since 1992 had such issue with my TR6! Latest issue while trying to tune up for emission inspection (which failed...and yes Oregon requires it 1974 and newer)... 
> Now the possessed beast won?t start at all! 
> 
> I?ve pick bugging Richard Taylor on tune up issues and now as my problems get worse... I better stop bugging him. 
> Here is what I have done/tested to trouble shoot... 
> 
> Ok. Won?t start - so I pulled plugs. 
> They were fouled due to the rich mix so I cleaned them. 
> Still won?t start. No spark to the plugs or wire when testing! And no shock is induced when I decided to hold the wire to get a better look. 
> So...why no spark when using various wires and a plug touch the engine block? 
> 
> Put in new cap, rotor, points, condenser. Nope. 
> Gap on the points has been checked and rechecked. As has the two connecting wires that need to be insulated with the plastic points sleeve. 
> 
> Tried spare condenser, and rotors (have both red and old black ones) 
> Even tried a spare coil. Nope. 
> Tested wires to make sure there wasn?t a break internally. 
> 
> Tested the coil to see if spark was achieved at the wire to the center of dist. Faint, but yes. (I used the method described in a Moss video) 
> Volt test shows battery at 12.46 and coil is 11.91. Hmm. Thought it should be the same. That test is with ignition turn to ON. 
> Maybe that is where something is wrong. Or maybe normal because of voltage drop. 
> 
> Even checked the base plate earth ground wire. All good. 
> I?ve never had such a baffle before. 
> I suppose I could have a defective part but tried spare parts one by one. 
> 
> Oh, yes. I confirmed I have gas and confirmed fuel is coming out of the pipe at the carbs. Which pointed me back to checking the spark. No spark in a dark garage and no shock is felt. 
> 
> There must be one other electrical component. 
> 
> There are only so many darn things and I am just stumped. My poor car doesn?t want to get back on the road! 
> One problem after another! My life is consumed with this car and about to roll it off a cliff! But I am too obsessed. 
> 
> 1976 TR6 
> 
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------------------------------ 

Message: 2 
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 03:55:29 +0000 
From: James_ <jattr6 at hotmail.com> 
To: John Cohen <jmcoh at comcast.net>, "6pack at autox.team.net" 
<6pack at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [6pack] Won?t start 
Message-ID: 
<MWHPR13MB1248935B6868C56306DAD14680400 at MWHPR13MB1248.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" 

Well... it started perfectly up until recently. 

then i tuned the carbs. I thought I had them balanced really well. 

Then when i came out to start the car up it barely started then ran rough. even though nothing was changed. 

So I threw in new condenser, points, rotor, cap. i think at that point i threw in new carb - intake gaskets as well. 

still ran rough. no difference at all. I think it had trouble starting at that point. 

I took a break, when i tried to start it later ... maybe next day... would not start at all. I've been battled all day long today. 

I did NOTHING between starting and not starting. Trust me... I would have hit UNDO if that was the case. 

I pulled a spark plug wire the plug and laid against the engine block to test for a spark. 

In case the spark was so tiny, I held the plug wire for a quick second while i turned the engine. Just because I was 

so frustrated and the shock wouldn't be extreme. 

Anyway, I had a spare NEW coil. Only because many years ago I was on a road trip and paranoid of things going wrong. So I had a repair kit. 

So today, after a long break...i hooked out the spare coil AGAIN... and sure enough the darn car fired! I didn't do anything else or different from when it would not start. 

So naturally I wired the other coil to see... well, that fired up the car too! 

Doesn't make sense (to me). So sure, the connectors on the coil could have been the issue, but i checked them many times and I tested the coil - and it was giving spark to the distributor cap. 

Well, now that it started it seems i have it way too rich. I turned the needle counter clockwise to 2.5 times CC and still seems too rich. whereas days ago 1.75 turns was about correct. something is just getting messed up. and the gremlins are doing weird things. 

it is way beyond comical. 
If anyone cares, I could make a list. one thing after another. 

James, 
So are you saying it was running ok before you started your tune up? 

First off, holding the high tension lead to check for a shock is generally not advised and something done only once. 

My bet would be to look closely at the coil. Are the leads running to your coil tight and on the correct polarity? Is the high tension lead to the distributor seated firmly on both ends? You say you used a spare coil. Why was it replaced? Could it be bad as well? 

Secondly bad new condensers are out there and can cause this problem. 

Good luck and don't get discouraged. 

John Cohen 
Rutland BY 
1976 TR6 

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