[6pack] Lucas PI

Tue Sep 3 06:46:04 MDT 2019

Hi, Andrew,

Next time you’re in touch with Darryl, pass on my greetings. He probably won’t remember me but many years ago, I met him more than once at GKN Autoparts in the UK. I think he worked for the UK operation? I was Managing Director of GKN Autoparts International under Nigel Walker and Jerry Clancy, both of whom he may remember?

240brake in a TR250, huh? I hope you do a lot of work in other areas to ensure the driveline can take that power and torque, and, more importantly, the brakes are upgraded!!!!!

The TR5 isn’t terribly complex in itself but the way the PI system works is way different to Strombergs. Over the years since the fuel injected cars have gained in collector popularity, significant strides have been made in setting them up properly so they run as they should. Around 2000, when the UK moved over to only unleaded fuel, most injected car owners had to have major work done on their metering units and mainly because the unleaded additives were collapsing the original rubber fuel lines. This led to metering units being reconditioned and being reset tto original Lucas specs. However, it soon became clear the settings used by Lucas for when the cars were in production was only the start of where the adjustments needed to be made. Fitting a new reconditioned metering unit was one thing but it was soon determined each engine had differing characteristics and mainly on the vacuum settings that control the amount of back and forth movement of the shuttle within the metering spindle. It’s rather a three-dimensional exercise (and an absolute sod of a job in terms of unit access to adjust) in getting the vacuum set to suit the individual car, while also playing with the varying advance curves on the distributor and synchronising the six throttle butterflies to ensure the mixture isn’t too weak or too  rich across the whole opening spectrum. This is a detailed exercise the factory could obviously never do in production, although all the Press cars underwent a detailed check on a regular basis – and they were all real ‘flyers’. This whole fandango is best achieved on a rolling road under varying engine loads – and not too many enthusiasts have a rolling road near their back door! However, the bottom line is that once all this is set and locked and you’re running ONLY on NGK BP6ES plugs, you’ll have a car that will last a long time without further intervention. If you’re considering a TR5 from the UK or Europe, my recommendation is you get Darryl’s guys at Racetorations to do all that work before the thing is shipped over to you. The only thing to then figure out is what the effect of the higher levels of ethanol you use in US fuel will have on running. I think your gas uses far more ethanol than the European stuff and this could cause issues that will ideally need reviewing once the car is in the States.

As I may have mentioned, my own 2.5PI saloon was power enhanced to UK police spec for added performance and this meant the power went up from about 130bhp at the flywheel to around 170bhp. This involved a new camshaft, a reconditioned metering unit but when first fitted it just didn’t run as I’d hoped. Once I’d taken it to the specialist guy who reconditioned the metering unit (and in those days there were only three companies in the UK) also fitted a Bosch fuel pump (essential) we spent all day with it on the rolling road and at the end of things when I was about $500 worse off, the car went like a rocket. More importantly in the next few years it NEVER went off tune! I forgot the number of times I frightened myself while driving it but it sure was money well spent!

So, the bottom line here is if anyone desires a Lucas injected car they’ll have a ball of fun PROVIDING the final fine tuning is done by someone who fully knows the system and has the skill to get the best out of it.

However, if a US enthusiast just wants TR5 or TR6PI performance, what I said in my last message is to fit carbs, shaved head, new cam and new dizzy – and leave it at that.

Good luck

Jonmac

From: Andrew Uprichard <auprichard at uprichard.net> 
Sent: 31 August 2019 17:44
To: 'John Macartney' <John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [6pack] Lucas PI

Hey, Jonmac – thank you for your email.  The story is never simple…….

My cousin Darryl Uprichard* owns Racetorations in Gainsborough and is currently building me an EFI engine (dyno’d around 240bhp) for my TR250.  Should be here by the end of the year.  So I will have a fast-road 250 to go with my Racetorations fast-road small-mouth 3 (and my stock TR2, TR3B and TR4).  I know, it’s getting crazy……..

Given I am not a TR6 fan (actually, my wife hates the look of them – and she is incredibly supportive), the only thing I could ever want for is a TR5.  It will not be anything like as fast as the Racetorations TR250, but what a great car to own.  But I know nothing about the Lucas system – so here we are again.

I think Darryl may be sending a mechanic over to the US next year for a customer out West:  if that works out, maybe he could swing by here, help finish the 250 and maybe even help with the TR5 (if I get it).

Too much information?  Sorry !!

Andrew 

*our fathers were 2 of 5 brothers, all of whom went to war.  Half returned to N. Ireland after the war, but the others stayed in England, so I have lots of English cousins, many of whom I have never met.  The only reason I met Darryl was because I bought a TR3 and was then told “you have a cousin in England who knows a thing or so about those cars” !!

From: John Macartney [mailto:John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk] 
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 11:52 AM
To: Andrew Uprichard
Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [6pack] Lucas PI

If all you want is an injected TR performance, I’d do this. Buy a us spec car.

TR5 camshaft, still available in U.K. and a bit better too than the original. Shave the head to at least 9.5:1, fit flat top pistons, a Lucas D25 or 26 dizzy, the equivalent of the SAH 6-3-1 extractor exhaust manifold, two 1.75 SU carbs and bingo, you’re there. Ideally, if the donor car is a late model 6, email Chris Witor in the U.K. for a 215019 head. These didn’t go to the US but we’re the best heads of the lot. Chris will confirm this and he’s a Triumph performance specialist. Goes without saying you’ll need anoverdrive. J type is ok but A type better imho. You’ll then have a car that is the injected versions performance equal in every way. These things are what we do in the U.K. to all 250s and carbed 6s that find their way back here. Good luck

Jonmac

Whenever I feel the need for exercise, experience has shown me it is better to lie down until the feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL

On 30 Aug 2019, at 15:43, Andrew Uprichard <auprichard at uprichard.net <mailto:auprichard at uprichard.net> > wrote:

Thanks, Jonmac:  I don’t have the car yet – and in fact am still going back-and-forth about whether to buy it.  I’ll keep you posted !

Andrew

From: John Macartney [mailto:John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 6:50 PM
To: Andrew Uprichard
Cc: Triumphs; 6pack at autox.team.net <mailto:6pack at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [6pack] Lucas PI

Can I help? Did the Lucas Service course, thefactory service course and owned a saloon with the pi engine to full U.K. police performance spec. Doubt you’ll find too many in the US with experience of the system. PI cars were never sold in North America in the day, though a very small number have snuck in since then. A word of advice. If you’re tempted to fiddle with the PI system, put everything you’ve learned about carbed cars entirely to one side. The Lucas system is a whole different ball game with very unique rules. That said, it’s a great setup but you need to know what you’re doing before you start:)

Jonmac

Whenever I feel the need for exercise, experience has shown me it is better to lie down until the feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL

On 29 Aug 2019, at 22:20, Andrew Uprichard via 6pack <6pack at autox.team.net <mailto:6pack at autox.team.net> > wrote:

Who is the go-to guy in the US for questions on the Lucas PI system?

Andrew Uprichard

Jackson, Michigan

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