[Fot] 89MM piston question

Tue Sep 4 15:07:47 MDT 2018

I’m being a bit facetious, I understand what people mean (sort of)  but I’ve heard “Horsepower wins sales, torque wins races.” and the equivalent spoken or written sagely, with solemn nods all around, too many times not to comment. One is a functional equivalent of the other, both in a mathematical and practical sense. The relationship is linear. Torque is force. Horsepower includes a circular distance component to express work. 

As you say, the numbers for the power and torque curves should equate at every point (adjusted by the function). The fact that they often don’t is ridiculous—horsepower measured by a dyno is calculated from torque and RPM, not directly measured. The shorthand bullshit detector for dyno curves expressed in Imperial units of ft-lbs and horsepower is to see if the curves cross at 5252 RPM. Many don’t, including those published in car magazines. 

Sheesh. 

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Larry Young via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> P = T*R/5252 
> When people talk about a torquey engine, they usually mean it makes its power a low revs. 
> 
> I once ran an engine on two different rolling road dynos (a Dynojet and a Mustang Dyno. The guys at the dyno shop said the second one would give less hp because they used a brake in their setup. I said, "you didn't calibrate for that"? They backpedaled and gave me a line of BS. Then the power and torque curves they produced did not agree with the equation. To get an explanation, I worked my way up the chain and eventually talked to the dyno companies head "technical" guy. He said he thought it must be the calibration! I said, "it is basic physics, like saying F = ma". Since then, I have never trusted dyno numbers. Good for comparative tuning runs only and of course, bench racing.
>  - Larry
> 
> On 9/2/2018 10:46 PM, Bill via Fot wrote:
>> It always puzzles me when people say that. Horsepower is torque times RPM (and a conversion factor). Torque is horsepower/RPM. So how can one count more than the other? 
>> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Mordy Dunst via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Its the torque that counts.  So, I suspect the motor enhancements took the benefit of the tractor stroke.  If the motor is  able  to produce  that power at 6k rpm with shift at 6500.    
>>> I shift at @ 6200 - my motor produces  max power @5800 on the dyno. I use a kastner designed cam for which  I have the masters. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> MDunst Headgasket.com <http://headgasket.com/> 626.358.1616 <tel:626.358.1616> 
>>> Fax 626.628.3777 <tel:626.628.3777> 
>>> Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 <tel:626.201.9471> 
>>> T FFL 6,7 SOT 2
>>> 
>>> On Sunday, September 2, 2018, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What kind of modifications were done to the engine to extract over 200 HP from a tractor engine?  Nitrous shot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 3:05 PM Thomas Boyd <tom at trenterprises.com <mailto:tom at trenterprises.com>> wrote:
>>> All of our FIA race cars are running legal 87mm engines.
>>> Just rolling roaded the latest SLR build at well north of 200bhp
>>> 
>>> Thomas Boyd
>>> Director
>>> TR Enterprises
>>> 01623 793807 (ext 302) <tel:01623%20793807;302>
>>> www.trenterprises.com <http://www.trenterprises.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 17:02, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you really had serious compliance with most group's rules, I would guess half the TR cars would not pass muster.  Let's have fun together.   
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 9:40 AM Terry Stetler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>>> Indeed there are Glen.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of fubog1 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 7:34:26 AM
>>> To: rkramer56 at gmail.com <mailto:rkramer56 at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] 89MM piston question
>>>  
>>> everybody else seems to be using 89.
>>> HaHa not everybody, rules say 87mm, there are still a few guys running them (and winning)...
>>> Glen 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
>>> To: van.mulders.marcel <van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be <mailto:van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be>>
>>> Cc: fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 31, 2018 11:26 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] 89MM piston question
>>> 
>>> I've always used 87 MM due to the rules but everybody else seems to be using 89. The procedures are the same so It'll be the same. I blew a head gasket last time out, compression into the cooling system and blew off the bottom hose. I guess it wasn't tight enough, and scuffed two pistons before I could shut it down. 
>>> 
>>> Bob Kramer
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 12:43 PM, <van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be <mailto:van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be>> wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>> It is definitely necessary to make that modification to the liners. The relieve should correspond to the shape of the combustion chambers : about 4 mm wide on a 89mm engine.
>>> Marcel
>>> 
>>> Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
>>> Cc: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
>>> Verzonden: Donderdag 30 augustus 2018 00:05:43
>>> Onderwerp: [Fot] 89MM piston question
>>> 
>>> Do the guys running the 89MM pistons and liners need to relieve the liners to clear the intake valve, or does the extra MM make the difference?
>>> 
>>> Bob Kramer
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 
>>> 
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