[Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings

Thu Sep 24 09:27:12 MDT 2020

Interesting discussion as I'm about to put my Avalanche 1500 on the market.

The 1500 Av suited my 16' enclosed trailer well, but the 24' was a bit of a
load. I've downsized the racing effort, gotten rid of the 24', am looking
for a newish 16'x7 to go with my new tow vehicle.

I don't haul big loads like I used to, so something smallish that suits a
<10,000 load and still gets ~20mpg about town, and is suitable for a long
cruise was warranted. Recently just such a vehicle appeared on the radar,
the wife needed new wheels, so we added a multi-purpose vehicle to the
fleet. And you know it tows pretty darn well. I used it to move ~6,000 lbs
of trailer and bridgeport mill after I tore out my Achilles a couple of
weeks ago and it just didn't care. I expect the FV or a Spit/GT6 in the
smaller enclosed trailer will be similar. So, as soon as I can get a
Triumph race car together, I'm hoping you all can make space in the FOT
paddock for us even if the tow vehicle is:

A Porsche. :)

2010 Cayanne with the tow package. There is nothing quite like backing up
to the trailer and hitting the 'raise' button on the suspension settings
and having the ball lift up into the receiver.

Bob

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:48 AM Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I bought an F250!  I mentioned that I had a couple of GMC 2500HD's and
> recently switched to an F250.  I may be mis-informed or possibly they have
> changed the recipe on newer models, but the GM 2500 and 3500 HD's were
> virtually identical in every way other than rear axle ratios. I opted for
> the 3.73 in the 2500 versus the 4.10 in the 3500 because the 3.73 works
> just fine with 10,000 lbs and I lived under the illusion that I would get
> better gas mileage.
>
> This time around my wife wanted the F250 so I did not research
> Fords versus GM to find out if they did it the same way, but Bill's
> question got me to thinking about it. I found this short article which
> explains the Fords and there are minor differences between the F250 and
> F350's as listed below.
>
> In my comparison of the 2500HD's to the current F250, I find the Ford is
> less harsh over bumps and wavy pavement making my aging bones happier. I
> suppose that an F350 would be harsher.
>
> F250 vs F350: Engine and Transmission
>
> Both the F250 and the F350 are available with gas or diesel engines. Most
> are equipped with the diesel because it is more economical and hauls/tows
> better. Both the F250 and F350 are also available with both an automatic,
> and manual transmission. So what’s the drivetrain difference? There isn’t
> one. *The F250 and F350 share the exact same drivetrain.*
> F250 vs F350: Axles
>
> Depending on which year you Super Duty you’re looking at, the front axle
> may be a Dana 50 or Dana 60. Older F250s and F350s use the Dana 50, which
> is an excellent axle. Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana 60 which is
> slightly beefier than the Dana 50. All years of the SRW (Single Rear Wheel)
> F250 and F350 use the Ford/Sterling 10.75. The F350 gets a slightly larger
> center section, otherwise, it’s the same as the F250’s rear axle. All years
> of the dually receive the Dana 80.
> *Basically the only difference is the SRW F350’s larger center section.*You
> can read more about this in our Dana 44 vs Dana 60
> <https://dustrunnersauto.com/dana-44-vs-dana-60/> article.
> F250 vs F350: Suspension
>
> All years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty springs and
> standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overload
> springs. The F350’s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but it’s such a
> small difference you probably wouldn’t notice on the road. The F350 has
> stiffer springs up front as standard, the F250 has those same springs as an
> option. Something that surprised me is that both of these trucks come with
> factory blocks in the rear. The F250 is equipped with a 2.5″ block, which
> lifts the rear up to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes
> factory with a 4″ rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 gives it a
> slightly higher tow rating.
>
> To put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4″ block
> compared to the F250’s 3.5″ block.
> F250 vs F350: Which One is Better?
>
> Something I didn’t mention above is the fact that some states will
> consider the F350 to be a commercial vehicle. This will make your insurance
> and registration costs go up. If you live in a state where that is not the
> case, I would say get an F350. The slightly stiffer springs will make
> towing a little bit nicer. Prices for both the F250 and F350 are nearly
> identical, so there’s really no reason not to go with the F350.
> Bob Kramer
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 7:49 PM Ponostyle via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I’d say “who buys F250”s?? The cost difference for an F350 is trivial,
>> especially if you buy one off the lot instead of ordering. I tow my
>> Airstream toy hauler with mine, it’s the second F350 I’ve owned. My first
>> one developed a serious oil leak that would have required removing the cab
>> ?!!? to fix. I gather that removing the cab is’t the worst job in to world,
>> but all this happened when I needed my truck in a week, so I traded it in
>> and got a 2018 F350. The new one came right off the lot (I was in a hurry)
>> and didn’t have all the fancy shit my previous one had. But it’s a MUCH
>> better truck, though I can’t park it for shit. It’s a twin cab with an
>> eight foot bed. So long, as in REALLY long. I think it’s 22’. Hook it up to
>> Fritz, my 34’ Airstream Peyote Hauler, and it’s a solid city block.
>>
>> But the diesel engine is so quiet that people step right in front of me
>> in parking lots—they don’t hear me coming. Weird for a Diesel. Without the
>> trailer I get 19mpg on freeways. With the trailer I get 16 if there aren’t
>> a lot of hills to climb. Keep your foot off the accelerator, or better yet,
>> put it in cruise at 65—and you’re gold.
>>
>> My next truck will be a maxed out cybertruck.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Mike Jackson via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I realize everyone has their own preferred answer.  That said:
>> I've had our 2000 Ford F350 diesel since it was new.  Heck, we've killed
>> two trailers in that time.  It'll hit 400K miles before the end of 2020 as
>> long as we dont have any more races cancelled.  It has a swaybar hitch that
>> helps but an 18 wheeler passing can still cause it to get a upset and
>> require a bit of opposite lock to keep it between the whites.
>>
>> It's been quite reliable with the exception of AC systems and
>> alternators.  I now travel with a spare alt behind the rear seat of our
>> crew cab model.
>>
>> Previous tow vehicle was a Suburban.  An uphill departure from a fuel or
>> lunch stop made a lot of noise but very little movement for a few seconds.
>> The F350 diesel is like a mule, say "go" and it does.
>>
>> And yes, it's my around town daily driver.
>>
>> I recall asking my sales guy when we ordered it from the factory if I
>> should consider a dually.  His reply was that I should only buy such a
>> thing if I liked buying rear fenders or was going to tow a 5th wheel
>> trailer.  Shortly after that I started noticing lots of duallies with
>> broken glass rear fenders from trying to turn in places just not quite wide
>> enough.
>>
>> Just my experience.
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Barr, Scott via Fot"
>> Sent: Sep 23, 2020 1:31 PM
>> To: Amici Triumphi
>> Subject: [Fot] Tow Vehicle Musings
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I’ve been towing a 24-foot toy-hauler style trailer for a few years now.
>> It’s 14 feet of “garage” space in the back and 10 feet of RV in the front
>> (toilet, shower, fridge, kitchen area).  All in, full of water, car loaded,
>> it weighs about 9,500 lbs.  I load the trailer so I have about 1,750 pounds
>> of tongue weight, which is technically a little over the payload limit of
>> the truck, but not too bad.
>>
>> I’ve been towing with a 2017 F-150, with a max tow package putting towing
>> capacity at about 12,000 lbs. V6 twin turbo EcoBoost with 375hp and 470 ft
>> lb torque.  I use a good weight-distributing hitch and a sway control
>> strut.  And I added Air Lift air suspension to help with the extra load.
>> Generally speaking, the F-150 has been doing just fine.  But when it’s
>> windy the trailer gets a little tail-happy, wagging enough sometimes to set
>> off the truck’s automatic trailer sway alarm (it’s a big baby…).
>>
>> So I’ve been trying to determine whether moving up to an F-250 super duty
>> would make an appreciable difference in the towing performance.  An F-250
>> is 1000-1500 pounds heavier than my F-150, depending on specs of both
>> trucks.  Is that enough to make a noticeable difference?  Are there other
>> factors that would make it that much better than an F-150?
>>
>> The F-150 with the twin turbo V6 and 10-speed trans makes for a nice
>> street car, with reasonable mileage (about 19 average) – and it’s what I
>> drive all winter.  The F-250 Super Duty will get considerably crappier
>> mileage and will be a less friendly daily driver (I assume).  Not to
>> mention that my F-150 is pretty close to paid off and I’d be taking on
>> another boatload of debt to move up to the F-250.  Which is all to say that
>> the towing performance improvement would need to be considerable before I
>> would make the move.
>>
>> What say you, towing brain trust?  Is it worth the move?
>>
>> Scott (B.)
>>
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