[Healeys] Water Pump
Michael Salter
michaelsalter at gmail.com
Fri Mar 6 15:42:53 MST 2015
With all due respect Kees,
Believe me replacing the bearing(s) and seal in a water pump of this type
is far from as simple as you "imagine"...
First the bearing ID and OD are such that no available ball bearing
(required to absorb end thrust) is available.
The original cartridge bearing uses the hardened shaft itself as the inner
bearing race to produce a bearing small enough to fit in yet provide
sufficient diameter for the pump shaft.
Obviously a needle bearing would fit in but such bearings will not
accommodate end thrust so would be useless in this application.
The original cartridge bearings actually had a hole in the outer race to
allow them to be lubricated in place but as is is so easy to inject too
much grease and by so doing dislodge the end seals of the bearings the
current practice is to make such bearings "sealed for life" such as in
modern water pumps and alternators.
Additionally the "seal" is not a typical "lip" oil seal. It is in fact a
combination bellows and carbon plate style seal the carbon of which runs on
the face of the impellor and must be capable of preventing cooling system
pressure from forcing coolant past the seal without rapidly wearing away.
As I keep saying; these components were developed over decades of trial and
error with the hundreds of thousands of examples produced serving an
exacting and rigorous "test bed". Anyone who thinks that they can do
better than the engineers of the day without a substantial investment of
both money and time is dreamin"..
Michael S
BN1 #174
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Oudesluys <coudesluijs at chello.nl> wrote:
> I would imagine that if you have access to a lathe it should not be to
> difficult to make up a shaft that will fit a sealed needle/roller bearing
> (pulley side) and a ball bearing (vane side) if both vane and pulley are in
> serviceable condition. The seal is not really difficult to replace even
> when the outside diameter is a bit smaller one can always fit a thin wall
> bush.
> You can even fit a grease nipple in the pump housing between the two
> bearings but you have to remove the bearing seals on the inside. I did so
> on a water pump of a daily driver Jensen Healey in the late 70's. The
> internal diameter of the needle bearing ring was slightly smaller than the
> internal diameter of the pulley so I had to make an extra bush to press on
> the shaft on which I could press the pulley, but it all worked well and
> lasted until the car was taken of the road about 60.000mls later.
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
>
>
> Alex schreef op 6-3-2015 om 0:00:
>
> *My original 1967 Healey 3000 had a grease nipple on the pump.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *== Alex in Maine "The Blue Mainie," 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7
> "Conkling," 1946 M.G. TC #1321 Former owner 1957 A-H 100-6, 1967 A-H
> BJ8, 1965 MG Midget ‹(•¿•)› http://ai2q.org/ <http://ai2q.org/>*
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* JOHN BAHE SR <johnbahesr at gmail.com>
> *To:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* healeys <healeys at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2015 5:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Water Pump
>
> Michael,
>
> When I purchased my 1966 BJ8 it came with an extra water pump that I was
> told was an original pump that had been rebuilt, I assume your rebuild
> kits are for an original pump but I am not sure how to tell an original
> 1966 BJ8 pump. The extra pump I have is cast iron but does not have the
> opening that shows the copper wire bearing retainer. The only number on
> the pump is by the outlet and is 170836. Any help identifying an original
> would be appreciated. Thanks for your time !!
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Michael Salter <michaelsalter at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Fred,
>> The Massey-Ferguson engine is a derivation of the TR4 wet sleeve 4
>> cylinder; or perhaps the other way around :-).
>> From memory the seal is the same as the later BJ7/8 pump but as I
>> recall although the bearing shaft is the same length and diameter and the
>> OD of the outer is the same the overall length of the outer is shorter and
>> the races are closer together. I have a box of them somewhere back in
>> Canada.
>> I think that is the bearing that has been used in the currently available
>> repro pump..
>> I would imagine that it could be used made to work in an original
>> BJ7/8 pump but it is not designed for that application and the loads on the
>> bearings would be substantially increased as a result of the races being
>> closer together.
>>
>> Michael S
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Fred Wescoe <fredwescoe at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago, a water pump builder rebuilt my BJ7 water pump and said
>>> the internals were the same as a Massey Ferguson tractor.
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:37 AM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <ynotink at msn.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand that most of the Brits of the era shared some parts
>>>> with tractors, Triumph especially. For that reason it's possible to cross
>>>> reference water pump repair kits in some instances and source them from
>>>> Tractor Supply stores. It would be interesting to know if this is true for
>>>> the Austin 4s and 6s.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lawrence
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> From: jmsdarch at sbcglobal.net
>>>> To: healeys at autox.team.net
>>>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 09:18:24 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Water Pump
>>>>
>>>> Some parts, like the impeller seal, are hard to get if you can find
>>>> them at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Adventure
>>>> Limousine
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2015 6:16 AM
>>>> *To:* Magnus Karlsson
>>>> *Cc:* Healey Lista
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Water Pump
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all of this talk about water pump quality, has anyone considered
>>>> rebuilding the original pump with new bearings and seals? Just throwing
>>>> some gas on this fire.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> *If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> John A Bahe Sr.
> Cell: (502) 599-2696
> johnbahesr at gmail.com
>
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--
*If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*
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