[Healeys] FW: Radiator flush

Tue Apr 9 00:29:51 MDT 2019

Call it what you will, distilled water eats steel. In steam heating plants the steel condensate handling piping often needs to be inspected and replaced because the condensate water will wear longitudinal grooves in the bottom portions of the pipe where it runs. In plants that have been in service over long periods without proper levels of corrosion inhibitor injected into the condensate stream the piping will often wear through and begin to leak along the bottom of the pipes due to this effect.

Distilled water is theoretically neutral with a Ph of 7, but exposure to air causes it to combine with CO2 turning it into a mild carbonic acid with a Ph of about 5.8. That will dissolve limestone and cause ferric metals to rust. (oxidize?)

Bill Lawrence
BN1 #554
________________________________
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 1:48 AM
To: healeys at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] FW: Radiator flush

To be totally a-retentive, water is called the 'Universal Solvent' because it will dissolve many inorganic compounds--esp. 'salts'--as they are polar compounds (one side of the molecule is positive, and one side is negative, and the H+/OH- ions in water will 'pull' the salt apart into its constituent ions and dissolve it).  Water is a particularly lousy solvent of organic (non-polar) compounds; try mixing vegetable or motor oil with it sometime.

Water is not an oxidizing agent--it is the product of an oxidation/reduction reaction itself between hydrogen and oxygen--but when it has polar salts dissolved in it it does conduct current, which facilitates oxidation-reduction reactions (e.g. 'rust').  Distilled water will dissolve more salts than (most) tap water, as the tap water is already further along in saturation.  I've heard people say distilled water is 'ion hungry,' which, for the life of me I don't understand (unless they mean it will dissolve a bigger pile of salt than really hard water, which is true).

bs

On 4/8/2019 3:32 PM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE wrote:
I have to agree with the theory that grounding can affect an alloy radiator. If you have a problem with corrosion despite using corrosion inhibitors then the problem is not the fluid component of the system it is more likely electrolytic corrosion. Maybe the problem isn't engine to chassis grounding, but radiator to chassis grounding. It sounds like some effort needs to be made to isolate the radiator (electrically) from the chassis. or to neutralize the electrolytic forces in the system.

Either keeping the radiator out of the electrical loop or assuring it is on the cathode side seems to be a good idea since aluminum is much lower on the noble scale than iron. In a positive ground system the chassis is the anode and if the radiator is grounded to the chassis it will also be an anode and will thus be subject to electrolytic corrosion. (The anode, positive pole, in any circuit gives up electrons which carry the electrical current. Loss of large numbers of electrons weakens the atomic structure of anode material and causes it to break down or corrode.)

I don't think that distilled water is necessary and as a matter of fact distilled water should be considered more corrosive than tap water. Water has the propensity to oxidize most other types of materials (universal solvent and all that) and distilled water has more of that propensity than harder water because in that case it has been partially saturated by dissolved minerals. The argument for distilled water is that it carries no calcium or other minerals into the cooling system which might eventually foul the heat exchange surfaces. That is a minor danger and would only be a problem if you were adding large volumes of water on a regular basis. If your cooling system is tight it should never be a problem.

Bill Lawrence
BN1 #554
________________________________
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net><mailto:healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Michael Salter <michael.salter at gmail.com><mailto:michael.salter at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 5:34 PM
To: Robert Begani
Cc: healeys at autox.team.net<mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] FW: Radiator flush

Much and all as that sounds like a good theory I am having difficulty with the logic.
A starter won't work if an engine isn't adequately grounded and a ground of sufficient size to operate a starter will definitely be big enough to eliminate any EMF difference between the engine and the chassis.
I've had an aluminum radiator corrode to worthlessness after only 3 years, with corrosion inhibitors in the coolant, and have yet to hear a realistic explanation for why it happened.

M

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 11:56 AM Robert Begani, <rfbegani at gmail.com<mailto:rfbegani at gmail.com>> wrote:

Back to the matter of using Distilled Water.  I discussed this comment with my German/American friend who was installing a aluminum radiator in his Lagonda Drop Head Coup.  He has owned various European Vehicles with aluminum radiators, and classic cars with aluminum radiators.  He cannot understand the need for distilled water if you are using antifreeze which includes anti-corrosion additives or using such additive separately.  Furthermore, the biggest problem with alloy radiators is the matter of a good grounded engine.  His experience the failure of the alloy radiator is a poorly grounded engine which causes the electric current to run to ground via the water in coolant system  hence destroy the aluminum being dissimilar metal.   So check the soundness of the ground.

Bob Begani

BJ8 67

From: Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:healeys-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Michael Salter
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 5:51 PM
To: David Nock BCS <healeydoc at sbcglobal.net<mailto:healeydoc at sbcglobal.net>>
Cc: Ahealey help <healeys at autox.team.net<mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>>; i erbs <eyera3000 at gmail.com<mailto:eyera3000 at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Radiator flush

" If you are installing a alloy radiator be sure and use Distilled water"

Those are definitely the words of someone who "has suffered the consequences" ...

M

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 5:47 PM David Nock BCS <healeydoc at sbcglobal.net<mailto:healeydoc at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:

If you are installing a alloy radiator be sure and use Distilled water.

The water flows thru the radiator top to bottom. It flows thru the heater from the lower hose thru the heater returning to the head.

Water will not flow backwards thru the heater valve.

David Nock
British Car Specialists
209-948-8767
www.britishcarspecialists.com<http://www.britishcarspecialists.com>

From: i erbs<mailto:eyera3000 at gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2019 11:10 AM

To: Ahealey help<mailto:healeys at autox.team.net>

Subject: [Healeys] Radiator flush

Hello all,

Preparing to install my alum radiator. Thought I would flush the cooling system.

Which diretion direction does water flow? From block though
Shut off vavle into heater core, or through pipe and back into block through the shut off valve?

Is my valve in open ir closed position? Heater controls not reinstalled yet. Unit get hot so Ill asume open, but want to confirm. Removed thermostat to help water flush ststem easier. Im going to add extra hose and splice in a water hose bib. That way I can remove it and put system back in place.

Im off this week, but the rain gods are laughing at me. So I'm just getting everything ready for the sweet spot of having time and sunshine so I can back the car out of the garage and flush the system. I plan to drain the anti freeze and fill with flush chemicals and water when I'm ready to flush. Bought new anti freeze for my new radiator.

Driving season is fast approaching.

Happy roads and saftey fast

Ira Erbs
Portland, OR
typos and artifacts are the fault of my phone

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