[Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT

Sat Dec 16 10:40:58 MST 2023

Hi Jean,

I'm really glad to hear the Registry will continue. As you point out it
serves a valuable service and has helped ferret out some bogus cars.

Happy Healeydays,
Rick Neville

On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 12:25 PM Jean Caron <
vintage_roadster_restoration at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Rick,
> No doubt that individuals were able to identify an "M" before and they
> will continue to do so in the future. What the Worldwide 100M Registry is
> doing is provide a potential buyer, the means to identify with a high
> degree of certainty that a given car is a genuine 100M or one that has been
> dealer optioned or modified later one. The Registry has also been able to,
> in some cases, prevent a possible purchaser to be defrauded by an
> unscrupulous seller claiming that the car on offer was a genuine 100M.
> Given the level of interest to factory 100M offered for sale from time to
> time on Bring-a-Trailer, I would definitely say that the genuine factory
> still command a very high level of interest and so far, command an extra
> premium over a regular 100.
> As far as the Worldwide 100M Registry is concerned, it will be continued,
> an announcement will be forthcoming soon.
>
> Jean
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of HealeyRick <
> healeyrik at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* December 16, 2023 9:29 AM
> *To:* Healeys <healeys at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> I know Bill Meade was trying to include the Registry along with the sale
> of his M., but the new owner wasn't interested. IMHO, more of an ass ache
> than an asset. Getting someone to take it on might be a problem, but people
> were able to identify factory Ms before the registry and will be able to do
> so in the future if the registry fades away
>
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>
>
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>
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 5:16 PM Michael Salter <michaelsalter at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that
> much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
> If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications,
> say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I would
> consider them be very special.
> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprised
> to see the "Registry" fade away.
> Just my opinion.
>
> M
>
> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <
> healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> What makes a 100M?
> Very good question and not easy to answer.
>
> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 100,
> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a
> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me
> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more
> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
>
> Josef Eckert
> Germany
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>
> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>
> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell at comcast.net>
>
> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik at gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be
> what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with
> aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>
> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be
> somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and
> parts on a BN1 (a BN2, *maybe*). The main problem I see is an earnest
> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but
> an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently
> forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock
> bands).
>
>
> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>
> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that caveat.
> Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it needed a new
> frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over to a
> solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M
> Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit
> surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have been
> registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So
> is the BaT car still an M?  Some pretty valuable race cars have been
> crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auction.
>
> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its
> original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M.
> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam
> Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's
> got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger
> anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and
> distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M
> motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put
> a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M cam
> in the lump!
>
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Excellent report, thank you.
>
> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I
> have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point
> out obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far
> as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat
> disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting some
> major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have
> the hand scribing like my car).
>
> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes,
> it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value *should*
> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the
> previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you
> present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial
> asterisk alongside the page title.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>
> If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations
> interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determine
> if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>
> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1
> front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as
> the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no
> evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount
> shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the
> BN2 mount.
>
> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays
> mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to
> just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two
> relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area with
> my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those
> 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes
> seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a BN2 would have the
> single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into
> welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws were
> used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.
>
> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping.
> Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end
> result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared
> identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear
> original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine,
> because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone
> who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in
> power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.
>
> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off
> another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some
> previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any
> evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will
> say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
> prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for
> someone else to decide.
>
> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply don't
> have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's
> original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>
> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try
> and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis.
> Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes
> where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person
> didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they
> were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?
>
> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly.
> The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps
> look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all
> around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his
> belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the
> restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were
> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some
> trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.
>
> The Millers
>
> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test
> drive."
>
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