[Healeys] The Future of Healey Ownership

Mon Feb 17 20:19:17 MST 2025

Hi Mirek, first off I'm glad you responded - no worries at all. Second,
sorry we didn't get to meet when I lived in southeast lower Michigan
(Windsor, Ontario was what I saw from my office window in Detroit). If you
visit Last Vegas look me up!

I fully understand your thoughts on the Healey, and hopefully we will hear
from more folks and have well rounded discussion.

For the record, I was asking a question and not advocating a position.

Cheers,

________________
Sent from my phone
Best Regards,
Al Fuller

On Mon, Feb 17, 2025, 5:53 PM <m.g.sharp at sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Hi all, thanks for your thoughts Al; things that many (most?) of us have
> thought about.  I was with you until the last paragraph.  I have always
> been of a mind with Austin-Healeys (Healeys) that there are enough of them
> around (well, excluding a few rare models), that I have never been offended
> when somebody customizes them to suit their own tastes.  I feel differently
> with rare cars as I think there is some obligation on behalf of those
> owners to preserve some history, but I don’t feel that way about Healeys.
> I had a number of “discussions” with Rich Chrysler about this and as many
> of you know he was an uber-ardent supporter of complete originality; they
> were “interesting” discussions!
>
>
>
> However, for me, owning and driving a Healey (I am a second owner and have
> had my BT7 for 50 years in a few months) goes beyond what it looks like or
> its mediocre performance and questionable handling (mine is bog stock).
> There is an indefinable “essence of Healey” that I love.  At some point, as
> the number of modifications increase, it becomes, for me, less of a
> Healey.  I enjoy its quirks.  If I wanted a safe, reliable better
> performing hobby car, I would buy one.  If my Healey lets me down on the
> road, and it rarely has, I have confidence that because it is mechanically
> simple I can fix a lot of it roadside and carry tools and spares to do a
> lot.  Granted, most of my drives are under 100 km from home, but I have
> driven a few times through the eastern states (I am near Toronto, ON),
> done a few laps of Lime Rock in it, and driven to friends in southern
> Michigan, and frankly if I had reason, would be OK driving it anywhere in
> North America. I know I could get more accurate timing with a modified
> distributor and electronic ignition, but I enjoy occasionally setting  the
> point gap and timing; I like the “open” look of 48 spokes, so when I
> replaced the wheels, that is what I bought – painted; I don’t have a
> modified starter, or a spin-on filter; I have the original mechanical
> regulator and a generator, run original lights all around and it has the
> original radiator, bellows thermostat and original fan (and no cooling
> issues).  I feel that every one of the modifications available to us,
> although technically sound, detracts to varying degrees from it being a
> Healey.  As for an electric “Healey”, well for me that is simply no longer
> a Healey.  I can even live with owners dropping V-8s into them, at least
> that was a period conversion – it represents part of the spectrum of
> Healeys I saw as a teenager, (though I waffle on whether I can think of
> them as Healeys).  “Nasty Boys”  don’t appeal to me, but nor do they bother
> me.  I am not completely obsessed with originality.  For example I run
> modern tires of the correct size (i.e., not biased-ply) and I use modern
> lubricants.
>
>
>
> It is not about the styling, it is about it being a Healey.  However, I
> recognize and respect that we all feel differently and I am OK with that.
> I will continue to strive to maintain mine as close as I can to when it
> came out of the factory (thank you all the authors of the concours
> guidelines!), pretty much with the same conviction as Rich had, but for
> different reasons – I just enjoy driving something that old (and older – I
> have M.G.s from the 30s and 40s). I enjoy it for what it is, a beautiful,
> reliable for its time, 65 year-old English sports car.  If the younger
> generation don’t want that, then they can buy something else.  I confess I
> am lucky in that I have a 38 year-old son who is mechanically minded and
> loves the old technology.  He will get mine.
>
>
>
> This is an old argument with, in my opinion, no rights or wrongs, and I
> was going to stay silent, but heck, its late, I am tired, and probably made
> a bad decision!
>
>
>
> Cheers, Mirek
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *
> alfuller194 at gmail.com
> *Sent:* February 17, 2025 6:52 PM
> *To:* 'James Frey' <rcw414 at icloud.com>; 'Michael Salter' <
> michaelsalter at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* 'Healey List' <healeys at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Healeys] The Future of Healey Ownership
>
>
>
> Michael, Jim and All:
>
>
>
> Your comments below have me thinking about what I have valued in my
> Austin-Healeys, and by extension what others do, will, or might value in
> them – as balanced against the costs of buying, restoring, upgrading or
> maintaining the cars.
>
>
>
> The Healey was never the fastest car I owned, and it was never the
> absolute best handling (though, the last BJ-8 with a new frame and gas
> shocks does handle pretty well). Obviously the Healey never had the most
> up-to-date safety features, and its exterior and dash lighting needed LED
> upgrades to perform even adequately. The list of things the cars were not
> is endless I compared to modern cars…
>
>
>
> BUT: driving a Healey usually put a smile on my face, and it appeared to
> put smiles on a lot of other people’s faces when out and about. As you all
> know, you cannot drive one of these cars without getting smiles, waves,
> thumbs-up, casual nods, etc – all acknowledging the wonderful looks the
> Healeys have!  If you park one, you will undoubtedly find your self in a
> conversation with someone who either had one and sold it, wished he had
> bought one way back when, wished he could buy one now, had an uncle who had
> one, or a cousin, or a friend’s dad, or, or, or… - you know how it goes!
>
>
>
> As much fun as it has been to drive my Healeys all over the US and Canada,
> as well as Norway, Denmark and Sweden – I can say that maintaining the cars
> has been the sore spot for me, and I’m now at an age and physical condition
> where it’s somewhere between really-not-fun, really-not-practical and
> really-not-possible anymore. As such, this conversation hits home for me.
>
>
>
> SO – what do I think about the future of Healey ownership? I suspect there
> will always be a small cadre of serious collectors who want and value cars
> that are as original as possible (whether “concours” level, or just plain
> nice cars!). The pool of cars that survive in such condition is shrinking
> gradually, but then so is the pool of such people!
>
>
>
> I also suspect that there is a substantial and growing group who would
> love the opportunity to have a car with the classic styling of an
> Austin-Healey, but the reliability and drivability of a modern car.
> “Modern” in this context may well be a very plastic term – meaning
> different things to different generations.  For today’s purposes I ask you
> all whether the future might be electric? An Austin-Healey that has good
> acceleration and brakes, good handling, no fluid leaks (!!) and far fewer
> to no 60 year-old parts to go bad – all combined with the classic lines of
> the Healey.
>
>
>
> What do you say?
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Al Fuller
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *James
> Frey via Healeys
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 16, 2025 3:10 PM
> *To:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Healey List <healeys at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Hello
>
>
>
> The costs you cite below are inexorably linked to the “What to Do with our
> Healeys” question that was also raised.  Over the last several years, I
> have restored/built 3 cars with most of the work done by a local shop (one
> of which was a Bugeye).  I needed to have most work performed by my shop.
> Although my skills are moderate and I enjoy turning wrenches, my time
> available to do so has lessened in recent years.
>
>
>
> Given the above circumstances, I have easily spent 2-3 times market value
> on the purchase price, work performed, parts, etc.  I consider myself lucky
> to have a trusted local shop, but depending on where you live (even
> assuming you are willing to spend the money), it can be extraordinarily
> difficult to get the cars serviced, let alone have significant restoration
> work done.  I also don’t see the value of most Healeys going up much, and
> it might go down given the (arguably) shrinking market/demographics for
> these cars.
>
>
>
> So given my recent experience, as much as I might love to own a BJ8 and
> would consider myself “a trusted steward”, paying significant dollars (even
> for a beautifully restored car) in a declining market might not be the best
> idea.  As for a car that “needs work”, I’m starting to feel like I’ve been
> there and done that a little too often.  Also, there are fun (more modern)
> cars out there for similar dollars that don’t present the same financial
> risk and difficulties in selling.
>
>
>
> Lastly, I’m 61 (so not “young”) and I think those that are younger than me
> are an even tougher sell.  I have 2 adult sons that have a moderate
> interest in cars and the “old cars” they might have an interest in are
> probably from 2000-2010.
>
>
>
> The market is undeniably softer than previously, but I actually think
> current values are a sellers market, even in the US.  With the potential
> for declining demand, it’s hard for me to see an improving Healey market
> over the next 10+ years.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2025, at 2:16 PM, Michael Salter <michaelsalter at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Very good question.
>
> All the work that you describe requires an individual with significant
> skill(s). These tasks are not something that your "run of the mill" parts
> changer can undertake.  In our part of the world (Canada) those "parts
> changers", without breaking a sweat can easily pull in 6 figures which
> equates to $50/hr. $50/hr paid to the tradesman will typically be charged
> out at an hourly rate of at least $100.
>
> In my book a full restoration takes 1200 hours at least, usually a lot
> more to produce concours standards.
>
> So labour ONLY $120K.
>
> Parts and materials usually at least 50% of labour. $60K.
>
> Incidentals at least another $20K
>
> It's getting up there 😳😳
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun., Feb. 16, 2025, 1:40 p.m. warthodson--- via Healeys, <
> healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> The list has been very quiet for a long time.
>
> How about a discussion about the cost of restoring a BN1?
>
> The metal work is About 90% done. The remaining work includes final
> fitting all body panels, preparing for paint & final painting.
>
> Wiring, plumbing including rebuilding the brakes, interior, fitting the
> windscreen, convertible top, side curtains including providing all material
> where necessary.
>
> Rebuild the engine including all the machining. I have all the necessary
> components.
>
>
>
> Gary Hodson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, February 16, 2025 at 10:46:32 AM CST, Mike Sinclair via Healeys
> <healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Is it me, or is the list quiet?  I haven't seen anything for quite a while?
>
> Mik
>
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