From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 10:25:02 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob) Date: Wed Dec 3 10:25:02 2003 Subject: [JONAT] JONAT Press Release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C3B98F.DC0DF530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all Sector and International Coordinators : We have (actually Hudson in Orlando has to tell the truth) put together a press release that will be distributed to the media over the next few days, starting today. Please feel free to distribute this to your local media. The Executive Cttee will distribute it to the national and international media (if you have any questions whether a certain media type is national or local, please let us know). Please keep a record locally of all to whom you have sent this note in case we need it for future reference. The press release can be seen at http://jonat.org/bob/PressRelease_031203.pdf in PDF format. Any comments and/or questions would be appreciated. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C3B98F.DC0DF530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To all=20 Sector and International Coordinators :
 
We=20 have (actually Hudson in Orlando has to tell the truth) put together a = press=20 release that will be distributed to the media over the next few days, = starting=20 today.
 
Please=20 feel free to distribute this to your local media.  The Executive = Cttee will=20 distribute it to the national and international media (if you have any = questions=20 whether a certain media type is national or local, please let us = know). =20 Please keep a record locally of all to whom you have sent this note in = case we=20 need it for future reference.
 
The=20 press release can be seen at
http://jonat.org/bo= b/PressRelease_031203.pdf
in PDF=20 format.
 
Any=20 comments and/or questions would be appreciated.
 
Bob
------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C3B98F.DC0DF530-- From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 11:00:02 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk) Date: Wed Dec 3 11:00:02 2003 Subject: [JONAT] JONAT Press Release References: Message-ID: <00a501c3b9c5$e4326670$77214518@GREG> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_nIgzaQiV5smrc2ltLgddBw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bob: excellent! Gregory ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob To: JONAT MailList Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:23 AM Subject: [JONAT] JONAT Press Release To all Sector and International Coordinators : We have (actually Hudson in Orlando has to tell the truth) put together a press release that will be distributed to the media over the next few days, starting today. Please feel free to distribute this to your local media. The Executive Cttee will distribute it to the national and international media (if you have any questions whether a certain media type is national or local, please let us know). Please keep a record locally of all to whom you have sent this note in case we need it for future reference. The press release can be seen at http://jonat.org/bob/PressRelease_031203.pdf in PDF format. Any comments and/or questions would be appreciated. Bob --Boundary_(ID_nIgzaQiV5smrc2ltLgddBw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Bob: excellent!
                            Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
To: JONAT MailList
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:23 AM
Subject: [JONAT] JONAT Press Release

To all Sector and International Coordinators :
 
We have (actually Hudson in Orlando has to tell the truth) put together a press release that will be distributed to the media over the next few days, starting today.
 
Please feel free to distribute this to your local media.  The Executive Cttee will distribute it to the national and international media (if you have any questions whether a certain media type is national or local, please let us know).  Please keep a record locally of all to whom you have sent this note in case we need it for future reference.
 
The press release can be seen at
http://jonat.org/bob/PressRelease_031203.pdf
in PDF format.
 
Any comments and/or questions would be appreciated.
 
Bob
--Boundary_(ID_nIgzaQiV5smrc2ltLgddBw)-- From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 13:45:02 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk) Date: Wed Dec 3 13:45:02 2003 Subject: [JONAT] dates Message-ID: <00fa01c3b9dd$72f3d800$77214518@GREG> We are in the process of making hotel arrangements and I would really like to know , in fact need to know, the date the group is expected in Victoria. The original arrangements called for arrival on Sunday May 16. This means that participants would be in Victoria from Sunday to Friday, leaving Friday for Vancouver. This seems a bit much for all sorts of reasons, and I am hoping that a few of these days can be absorbed by earlier segments, with arrival in Victoria, say Tuesday. Can we please have some help on this ASAP? Gregory From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 14:13:01 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jamie - JONAT) Date: Wed Dec 3 14:13:01 2003 Subject: [JONAT] dates References: <00fa01c3b9dd$72f3d800$77214518@GREG> Message-ID: <031a01c3b9e1$891c0180$6501a8c0@attbi.com> I know I've got three days planned out so far and the 4th was still up in the air. I was hoping Oregon would take one as the coast is so beautiful. Jamie Jamie & Dru - Everett, WA 88 Series III V12 VdP - Roxanne 89 XJS V12 Convertible - Butch Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:38 PM Subject: [JONAT] dates > We are in the process of making hotel arrangements and I would really like > to know , in fact need to know, the date the group is expected in Victoria. > The original arrangements called for arrival on Sunday May 16. This means > that participants would be in Victoria from Sunday to Friday, leaving Friday > for Vancouver. This seems a bit much for all sorts of reasons, and I am > hoping that a few of these days can be absorbed by earlier segments, with > arrival in Victoria, say Tuesday. > Can we please have some help on this ASAP? > Gregory > > _______________________________________________ > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net > www.jonat.org > _______________________________________________ > From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 15:45:01 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob) Date: Wed Dec 3 15:45:01 2003 Subject: [JONAT] dates In-Reply-To: <031a01c3b9e1$891c0180$6501a8c0@attbi.com> Message-ID: I'll add another day to Oregon if that's all right with you Kerry. One less day in your Sector Gregory and sets Jamie's Sector back one day. Bob -----Original Message----- From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT Sent: December 3, 2003 3:04 PM To: jonat@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [JONAT] dates I know I've got three days planned out so far and the 4th was still up in the air. I was hoping Oregon would take one as the coast is so beautiful. Jamie Jamie & Dru - Everett, WA 88 Series III V12 VdP - Roxanne 89 XJS V12 Convertible - Butch Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:38 PM Subject: [JONAT] dates > We are in the process of making hotel arrangements and I would really like > to know , in fact need to know, the date the group is expected in Victoria. > The original arrangements called for arrival on Sunday May 16. This means > that participants would be in Victoria from Sunday to Friday, leaving Friday > for Vancouver. This seems a bit much for all sorts of reasons, and I am > hoping that a few of these days can be absorbed by earlier segments, with > arrival in Victoria, say Tuesday. > Can we please have some help on this ASAP? > Gregory From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 15:53:01 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob) Date: Wed Dec 3 15:53:01 2003 Subject: [JONAT] JONAT Press Release In-Reply-To: <00a501c3b9c5$e4326670$77214518@GREG> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3B9BD.A3AC9560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually all kudos go to Hudson on this one ... thanks again Hudson ! Bob -----Original Message----- From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk Sent: December 3, 2003 11:50 AM To: jonat@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [JONAT] JONAT Press Release Bob: excellent! Gregory ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob To: JONAT MailList Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:23 AM Subject: [JONAT] JONAT Press Release To all Sector and International Coordinators : We have (actually Hudson in Orlando has to tell the truth) put together a press release that will be distributed to the media over the next few days, starting today. Please feel free to distribute this to your local media. The Executive Cttee will distribute it to the national and international media (if you have any questions whether a certain media type is national or local, please let us know). Please keep a record locally of all to whom you have sent this note in case we need it for future reference. The press release can be seen at http://jonat.org/bob/PressRelease_031203.pdf in PDF format. Any comments and/or questions would be appreciated. Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3B9BD.A3AC9560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Actually all kudos go to Hudson on this one ... thanks again = Hudson=20 !
 
Bob
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = jonat-admin@autox.team.net=20 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Dr Gregory=20 Andrachuk
Sent: December 3, 2003 11:50 AM
To:=20 jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] JONAT Press=20 Release

Bob: excellent!
       =20             =    =20     Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bob
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, = 2003 9:23=20 AM
Subject: [JONAT] JONAT Press=20 Release

To=20 all Sector and International Coordinators :
 
We=20 have (actually Hudson in Orlando has to tell the truth) put together a = press=20 release that will be distributed to the media over the next few days, = starting=20 today.
 
Please feel free to distribute this to your local = media.  The=20 Executive Cttee will distribute it to the national and international = media (if=20 you have any questions whether a certain media type is national or = local,=20 please let us know).  Please keep a record locally of all to whom = you=20 have sent this note in case we need it for future=20 reference.
 
The=20 press release can be seen at
http://jonat.org/bo= b/PressRelease_031203.pdf
in=20 PDF format.
 
Any=20 comments and/or questions would be appreciated.
 
Bob
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3B9BD.A3AC9560-- From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 15:58:01 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob) Date: Wed Dec 3 15:58:01 2003 Subject: [JONAT] dates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gregory / Kerry / Jamie I have updated the itinerary with the extra day for Oregon. Gregory, the Tour now arrives in Victoria the evening of Wednesday May 19. Bob -----Original Message----- From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Bob Sent: December 3, 2003 4:43 PM To: jonat@autox.team.net Subject: RE: [JONAT] dates I'll add another day to Oregon if that's all right with you Kerry. One less day in your Sector Gregory and sets Jamie's Sector back one day. Bob -----Original Message----- From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT Sent: December 3, 2003 3:04 PM To: jonat@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [JONAT] dates I know I've got three days planned out so far and the 4th was still up in the air. I was hoping Oregon would take one as the coast is so beautiful. Jamie Jamie & Dru - Everett, WA 88 Series III V12 VdP - Roxanne 89 XJS V12 Convertible - Butch Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:38 PM Subject: [JONAT] dates > We are in the process of making hotel arrangements and I would really like > to know , in fact need to know, the date the group is expected in Victoria. > The original arrangements called for arrival on Sunday May 16. This means > that participants would be in Victoria from Sunday to Friday, leaving Friday > for Vancouver. This seems a bit much for all sorts of reasons, and I am > hoping that a few of these days can be absorbed by earlier segments, with > arrival in Victoria, say Tuesday. > Can we please have some help on this ASAP? > Gregory _______________________________________________ JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net www.jonat.org _______________________________________________ From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 17:29:02 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mike O'Brien) Date: Wed Dec 3 17:29:02 2003 Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCE7E93.7050200@jonat.org> I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to speed on registration. Are we talking about one fee for the entire tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply what amount has been set and to whom is it paid? -- Mike O'Brien Ottawa Sector Coordinator Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat) http://www.jonat.org Bob wrote: > This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free > advertising with this. Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ? > > Bob England > > -----Original Message----- > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Robert MacLeay > Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM > To: JONAT list > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI > > A thought about repairs: > > It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with > paid registration, for the duration of the tour. > > Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian > counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group? > > From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 18:05:02 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob) Date: Wed Dec 3 18:05:02 2003 Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI In-Reply-To: <3FCE7E93.7050200@jonat.org> Message-ID: Mike I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee. That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs (insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to cover maps, events, and the like. No fees have been set yet (as far as I know). Any other thoughts on this? Bob -----Original Message----- From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike O'Brien Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM To: jonat@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to speed on registration. Are we talking about one fee for the entire tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply what amount has been set and to whom is it paid? -- Mike O'Brien Ottawa Sector Coordinator Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat) http://www.jonat.org Bob wrote: > This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free > advertising with this. Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ? > > Bob England > > -----Original Message----- > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Robert MacLeay > Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM > To: JONAT list > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI > > A thought about repairs: > > It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with > paid registration, for the duration of the tour. > > Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian > counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group? > > _______________________________________________ JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net www.jonat.org _______________________________________________ From jonat@autox.team.net Wed Dec 3 20:14:01 2003 From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mike O'Brien) Date: Wed Dec 3 20:14:01 2003 Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCEA551.6040009@jonat.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000904080906090507030005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the sector. If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees? This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have their own coverage. We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors or national leadership: Insurance to cover all our liability Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors) Printing of critical information for participants and ??????? Mike -- Mike O'Brien Ottawa Sector Coordinator Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat) http://www.jonat.org Bob wrote: >Mike > >I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee. >That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs >(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to >cover maps, events, and the like. No fees have been set yet (as far as I >know). > >Any other thoughts on this? > >Bob > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On >Behalf Of Mike O'Brien >Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM >To: jonat@autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI > > >I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to >speed on registration. Are we talking about one fee for the entire >tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply >what amount has been set and to whom is it paid? > >-- >Mike O'Brien >Ottawa Sector Coordinator >Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat) >http://www.jonat.org > > >Bob wrote: > > > >>This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free >>advertising with this. Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ? >> >>Bob England >> >> -----Original Message----- >>From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On >>Behalf Of Robert MacLeay >>Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM >>To: JONAT list >>Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI >> >>A thought about repairs: >> >>It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with >>paid registration, for the duration of the tour. >> >>Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian >>counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group? >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list >REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net >www.jonat.org >_______________________________________________ > >_______________________________________________ >JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list >REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net >www.jonat.org >_______________________________________________ > > > > --------------000904080906090507030005 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the sector.

If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees?

This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have their own coverage.

We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors or national leadership:

Insurance to cover all our liability
Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
Printing of critical information for participants
and   ???????

Mike
-- 
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org

Bob wrote:
Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  
This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?


    



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


  





--------------000904080906090507030005--



From jonat@autox.team.net  Wed Dec  3 21:23:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Wed Dec  3 21:23:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] dates
References: 
Message-ID: <017e01c3ba1d$77562ca0$77214518@GREG>

Excellent. Thanks Bob. We now expect the group to arrive in Victoria on the
afternoon ferry from Port Angeles, Wednesday, May 19.
Can Jamie confirm this arrangement?
                                            Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] dates


: Gregory / Kerry / Jamie
:
: I have updated the itinerary with the extra day for Oregon.  Gregory, the
: Tour now arrives in Victoria the evening of Wednesday May 19.
:
: Bob
:
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Bob
: Sent: December 3, 2003 4:43 PM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: RE: [JONAT] dates
:
:
: I'll add another day to Oregon if that's all right with you Kerry.  One
less
: day in your Sector Gregory and sets Jamie's Sector back one day.
:
: Bob
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
: Sent: December 3, 2003 3:04 PM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] dates
:
:
: I know I've got three days planned out so far and the 4th was still up in
: the air.  I was hoping Oregon would take one as the coast is so beautiful.
:
: Jamie
:
: Jamie & Dru - Everett, WA
: 88 Series III V12 VdP - Roxanne
: 89 XJS V12 Convertible - Butch
: Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org
: April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 
: To: 
: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:38 PM
: Subject: [JONAT] dates
:
:
: > We are in the process of making hotel arrangements and I would really
like
: > to know , in fact need to know, the date the group is expected in
: Victoria.
: > The original arrangements called for arrival  on Sunday May 16. This
means
: > that participants would be in Victoria from Sunday to Friday, leaving
: Friday
: > for Vancouver. This seems a bit much for all sorts of reasons, and I am
: > hoping that a few of these days can be absorbed by earlier segments,
with
: > arrival in Victoria, say Tuesday.
: >     Can we please have some help on this ASAP?
: >                                             Gregory
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Wed Dec  3 21:29:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Wed Dec  3 21:29:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] CAA /AAA
References: 
 <3FCE7E93.7050200@jonat.org>
Message-ID: <018c01c3ba1e$196a06b0$77214518@GREG>

Can I just suggest that the fee should be optional? If we start loading too
many fees on the participants, we will reduce the numbers. Many will already
belong either to the CAA and its provincial associations (BCAA, OAA, etc),
or the AAA. If so, they already have reciprocal provileges and no fee is
necessary. Would it not be better just to suggest that each partcipant join
the AAA or the CAA? I really think that we should be leaving the onus to
prepare the cars, and to look after the cars, to the participants
themselves.
                                        Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike O'Brien" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


: I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
: speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
: tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
: what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?
:
: --
: Mike O'Brien
: Ottawa Sector Coordinator
: Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
: http://www.jonat.org
:
:
: Bob wrote:
:
: > This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
: > advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?
: >
: > Bob England
: >
: >  -----Original Message-----
: > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: > Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
: > Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
: > To: JONAT list
: > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: > A thought about repairs:
: >
: > It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
: > paid registration, for the duration of the tour.
: >
: > Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
: > counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?
: >
: >
:
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
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From jonat@autox.team.net  Wed Dec  3 21:39:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Wed Dec  3 21:39:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
 <3FCEA551.6040009@jonat.org>
Message-ID: <01b201c3ba1f$f5550c50$77214518@GREG>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Mike: I agree completely. The more complicated this becomes, the less fun it is. The more expensive we make this, the fewer will participate. There are hotel fees, meals, etc. that every participant must count on. Hotel reates will vary widely. In Victoria it will be $129 Canadian (that is about $100 US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay here.
    JONAT should be charging only the absolute minimum needed. Let the participant loook after his own car (with appropriate guidance for service etc. from sector coordinators). If we go much further along this road we will be asking for a fee for health insurance too. Come to think of it, each participant, if travelling out of his own area, should arrange for out of province or out of country health insurance; that is especially important for Canadian travelling in the US.
    So on the registration page, perhaps we should have a list of very strong recommendations: 1) proper preparation of the cars: coolant hoses, fuel hoses, etc.,  2)CAA/AAA membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra health insurance 4) what else?
                                Gregory 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mike O'Brien 
  To: jonat@autox.team.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


   It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the sector. 

  If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees?

  This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have their own coverage. 

  We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors or national leadership:

  Insurance to cover all our liability
  Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
  Printing of critical information for participants
  and   ???????

  Mike

-- 
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org 

  Bob wrote:

Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  
This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?


    



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
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REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
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Mike: I agree completely. The more complicated this 
becomes, the less fun it is. The more expensive we make this, the fewer will 
participate. There are hotel fees, meals, etc. that every participant must count 
on. Hotel reates will vary widely. In Victoria it will be $129 Canadian (that is 
about $100 US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay here.


    JONAT should be charging only 
the absolute minimum needed. Let the participant loook after his own car (with 
appropriate guidance for service etc. from sector coordinators). If we go much 
further along this road we will be asking for a fee for health insurance too. 
Come to think of it, each participant, if travelling out of his own area, should 
arrange for out of province or out of country health insurance; that is 
especially important for Canadian travelling in the US.


    So on the registration page, 
perhaps we should have a list of very strong recommendations: 1) proper 
preparation of the cars: coolant hoses, fuel hoses, etc.,  2)CAA/AAA 
membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra health insurance 4) what 
else?


        
                
        Gregory 


 



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  
  
  
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:09 
  PM

  
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

  

 It seems complicated to administer with two separate 
  fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any 
  variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may 
  run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are 
  for the sector. 

If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership 
  will it come from the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA 
  coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees?

This is a nightmare. 
  I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on and their car may 
  suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have their own coverage. 
  

We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are 
  absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors or 
  national leadership:

Insurance to cover all our 
  liability
Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
Printing of 
  critical information for participants
and   
  ???????

Mike
-- 
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org 

Bob 
  wrote:

  
Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  

    
This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?


    



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


  



--Boundary_(ID_RkDaGR2bsw1Z/zqlIUJyNg)--

From jonat@autox.team.net  Wed Dec  3 22:24:00 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jerry Mouton)
Date: Wed Dec  3 22:24:00 2003
Subject: [JONAT] CAA /AAA
References:  <3FCE7E93.7050200@jonat.org> <018c01c3ba1e$196a06b0$77214518@GREG>
Message-ID: <043901c3ba26$5f09b0a0$6501a8c0@momsthinkpad>

Yes, I like this approach, too.   We can recommend it.  Obviously
anything we can do to make it easier on participants, fine, but
I like this as a participant-driven event...

Jerry

Jerry Mouton    '64 E Type FHC    "Laissez les bons temps rouler!"
      Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org
      April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 


> Can I just suggest that the fee should be optional? If we start loading
too
> many fees on the participants, we will reduce the numbers. Many will
already
> belong either to the CAA and its provincial associations (BCAA, OAA, etc),
> or the AAA. If so, they already have reciprocal provileges and no fee is
> necessary. Would it not be better just to suggest that each partcipant
join
> the AAA or the CAA? I really think that we should be leaving the onus to
> prepare the cars, and to look after the cars, to the participants
> themselves.


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 00:10:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Brad Preiss)
Date: Thu Dec  4 00:10:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <01b201c3ba1f$f5550c50$77214518@GREG>
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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WOW - and I got lambasted for the idea of a simple conference call -
funny... isn't it?

Bob - I think the executive committee needs to have a con call - ASAP - set
a fee - and that's that.

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:35 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


  Mike: I agree completely. The more complicated this becomes, the less fun
it is. The more expensive we make this, the fewer will participate. There
are hotel fees, meals, etc. that every participant must count on. Hotel
reates will vary widely. In Victoria it will be $129 Canadian (that is about
$100 US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay here.
      JONAT should be charging only the absolute minimum needed. Let the
participant loook after his own car (with appropriate guidance for service
etc. from sector coordinators). If we go much further along this road we
will be asking for a fee for health insurance too. Come to think of it, each
participant, if travelling out of his own area, should arrange for out of
province or out of country health insurance; that is especially important
for Canadian travelling in the US.
      So on the registration page, perhaps we should have a list of very
strong recommendations: 1) proper preparation of the cars: coolant hoses,
fuel hoses, etc.,  2)CAA/AAA membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra
health insurance 4) what else?
                                  Gregory

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Mike O'Brien
    To: jonat@autox.team.net
    Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:09 PM
    Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


     It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the
sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?.
Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into
wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the
sector.

    If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from the
overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will that
mean two possible overall fees?

    This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they
have their own coverage.

    We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
or national leadership:

    Insurance to cover all our liability
    Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
    Printing of critical information for participants
    and   ???????

    Mike

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org
    Bob wrote:

Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?





_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________




------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3BA0B.4E736DA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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WOW -=20
and I got lambasted for the idea of a simple conference call - funny... =
isn't=20
it?


 


Bob -=20
I think the executive committee needs to have a con call - ASAP - set a =
fee -=20
and that's that.


 


Brad


 


-----Original =
Message-----
From:=20
jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On =
Behalf Of=20
Dr Gregory Andrachuk
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 =
11:35=20
PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: =

FYI




  
Mike: I agree completely. The more =
complicated=20
  this becomes, the less fun it is. The more expensive we make this, the =
fewer=20
  will participate. There are hotel fees, meals, etc. that every =
participant=20
  must count on. Hotel reates will vary widely. In Victoria it will be =
$129=20
  Canadian (that is about $100 US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay=20
  here.

  
    JONAT should be =
charging only=20
  the absolute minimum needed. Let the participant loook after his own =
car (with=20
  appropriate guidance for service etc. from sector coordinators). If we =
go much=20
  further along this road we will be asking for a fee for health =
insurance too.=20
  Come to think of it, each participant, if travelling out of his own =
area,=20
  should arrange for out of province or out of country health insurance; =
that is=20
  especially important for Canadian travelling in the US.

  
    So on the =
registration page,=20
  perhaps we should have a list of very strong recommendations: 1) =
proper=20
  preparation of the cars: coolant hoses, fuel hoses, etc.,  =
2)CAA/AAA=20
  membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra health insurance 4) what=20
  else?

  
        =

              =
   =20
          Gregory 

  
 

  

    
----- Original Message ----- 

    From:=20
    Mike =
O'Brien=20
    
    
    
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, =
2003 7:09=20
    PM

    
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: =
FYI

    

 It seems complicated to administer with two =
separate=20
    fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if =
any=20
    variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of =
them may=20
    run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the =
arrangements are=20
    for the sector. 

If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short =
membership=20
    will it come from the overall fee? What about those who already have =
CAA/AAA=20
    coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees?

This is a=20
    nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on =
and=20
    their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have =
their own=20
    coverage. 

We should restrict charges to participants to =
those things=20
    that are absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged =
by the=20
    sectors or national leadership:

Insurance to cover all our=20
    liability
Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
Printing =
of=20
    critical information for participants
and  =20
    ???????

Mike
--=20
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org 

Bob=20
    wrote:

    
Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration =
fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee =
to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as =
I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  

      
This would be a great =
idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?


    



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list=20
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


  



------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3BA0B.4E736DA0--


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 02:25:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Robert MacLeay)
Date: Thu Dec  4 02:25:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] CAA /AAA
In-Reply-To: <018c01c3ba1e$196a06b0$77214518@GREG>
Message-ID: 

It was my intention to negotiate a really low blanket group fee with AAA/CAA
for everyone officially participating in the tour.  My definition of
"officially participating" was that those covered had paid the participation
fee for whatever sector(s) they were driving.

It was my hope that, in order to promote their services, AAA/CAA would offer
the coverage at a nominally low or (hopefully) nonexistent fee. As an
example, I am currently paying AAA Colorado US$87 per year for their premium
service.  This works out to $1.67 per week, which we should be able to
absorb into the sector participation fee.
-- 

Robert MacLeay  -  Denver, CO
1990 VDP Majestic
Colorado Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owners North American Tour 2004  -  http://jonat.org



on 12/3/03 9:21 PM, Dr Gregory Andrachuk at v12-vdp@shaw.ca wrote:

> Can I just suggest that the fee should be optional? If we start loading too
> many fees on the participants, we will reduce the numbers. Many will already
> belong either to the CAA and its provincial associations (BCAA, OAA, etc),
> or the AAA. If so, they already have reciprocal provileges and no fee is
> necessary. Would it not be better just to suggest that each partcipant join
> the AAA or the CAA? I really think that we should be leaving the onus to
> prepare the cars, and to look after the cars, to the participants
> themselves.
>                                       Gregory
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike O'Brien" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 4:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> 
> : I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
> : speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
> : tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
> : what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?




From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 06:54:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Thu Dec  4 06:54:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <01b201c3ba1f$f5550c50$77214518@GREG>
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Gregory ... I like your last idea ... any volunteers to put together such a
list? ... I'll put it on the webpages ...

Bob England



 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
Sent: December 3, 2003 10:35 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


Mike: I agree completely. The more complicated this becomes, the less fun it
is. The more expensive we make this, the fewer will participate. There are
hotel fees, meals, etc. that every participant must count on. Hotel reates
will vary widely. In Victoria it will be $129 Canadian (that is about $100
US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay here.
    JONAT should be charging only the absolute minimum needed. Let the
participant loook after his own car (with appropriate guidance for service
etc. from sector coordinators). If we go much further along this road we
will be asking for a fee for health insurance too. Come to think of it, each
participant, if travelling out of his own area, should arrange for out of
province or out of country health insurance; that is especially important
for Canadian travelling in the US.
    So on the registration page, perhaps we should have a list of very
strong recommendations: 1) proper preparation of the cars: coolant hoses,
fuel hoses, etc.,  2)CAA/AAA membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra
health insurance 4) what else?
                                Gregory

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mike O'Brien
  To: jonat@autox.team.net
  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


   It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the sector
fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?. Someone who
drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into wildly varying
costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the sector.

  If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from the
overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will that
mean two possible overall fees?

  This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they
have their own coverage.

  We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
or national leadership:

  Insurance to cover all our liability
  Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
  Printing of critical information for participants
  and   ???????

  Mike

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org
  Bob wrote:

Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?





_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________




------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C3BA3B.A7A4FB70
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Gregory ... I like your last idea ... any volunteers to put =
together such=20
a list? ... I'll put it on the webpages ...


 




Bob=20
England


 


 -----Original=20
Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=20
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Dr Gregory=20
Andrachuk
Sent: December 3, 2003 10:35 PM
To:=20
jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE:=20
FYI



Mike: I agree completely. The more =
complicated this=20
becomes, the less fun it is. The more expensive we make this, the fewer =
will=20
participate. There are hotel fees, meals, etc. that every participant =
must count=20
on. Hotel reates will vary widely. In Victoria it will be $129 Canadian =
(that is=20
about $100 US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay here.


    JONAT should be =
charging only=20
the absolute minimum needed. Let the participant loook after his own car =
(with=20
appropriate guidance for service etc. from sector coordinators). If we =
go much=20
further along this road we will be asking for a fee for health insurance =
too.=20
Come to think of it, each participant, if travelling out of his own =
area, should=20
arrange for out of province or out of country health insurance; that is=20
especially important for Canadian travelling in the US.


    So on the =
registration page,=20
perhaps we should have a list of very strong recommendations: 1) proper=20
preparation of the cars: coolant hoses, fuel hoses, etc.,  =
2)CAA/AAA=20
membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra health insurance 4) what=20
else?


       =20
            =
   =20
        Gregory 


 



  
----- Original Message ----- 

  From:=20
  Mike =
O'Brien=20
  
  
  
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, =
2003 7:09=20
  PM

  
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: =
FYI

  

 It seems complicated to administer with two =
separate=20
  fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if =
any=20
  variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of =
them may=20
  run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the =
arrangements are=20
  for the sector. 

If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short =
membership=20
  will it come from the overall fee? What about those who already have =
CAA/AAA=20
  coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees?

This is a =
nightmare.=20
  I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on and their =
car may=20
  suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have their own =
coverage.=20
  

We should restrict charges to participants to those things =
that are=20
  absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the =
sectors or=20
  national leadership:

Insurance to cover all our=20
  liability
Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
Printing =
of=20
  critical information for participants
and  =20
  ???????

Mike
--=20
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org 

Bob=20
  wrote:

  
Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration =
fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee =
to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as =
I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  

    
This would be a great idea =
... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?


    



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list=20
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


  



------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C3BA3B.A7A4FB70--


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 06:54:13 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Thu Dec  4 06:54:13 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <3FCEA551.6040009@jonat.org>
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3BA3B.A767CB60
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	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

If I remember this thread correctly, were we not going to try to offer
CAA/AAA a sponsorship if they were to provide gratis breakdown services(?)

Regarding fees, if we have a single registration fee (an idea which I like
by the way) rather than a Sector fee, then how do we divvy up the fees for
the Sectors to cover their costs: examples would be someone who does 1
Sector vs. someone who does 7.  Do I also get the impression that the
suggestion is that Sector events would be charged not as part of the Sector
fee, but on an entrance ticket to each event type basis?  We might be able
to make this work but the question is how.

And yes, the JONAT fees should only cover the basic minimum in my opinion so
the costs can be kept down.

Bob England



 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 9:09 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


 It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the sector
fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?. Someone who
drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into wildly varying
costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the sector.

If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from the
overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will that
mean two possible overall fees?

This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed
on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have
their own coverage.

We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
or national leadership:

Insurance to cover all our liability
Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
Printing of critical information for participants
and   ???????

Mike

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org
Bob wrote:

Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?





_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________




------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3BA3B.A767CB60
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	charset="US-ASCII"
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If I=20
remember this thread correctly, were we not going to try to offer =
CAA/AAA a=20
sponsorship if they were to provide gratis breakdown=20
services(?)


 


Regarding fees, if we have a single registration fee (an idea =
which I=20
like by the way) rather than a Sector fee, then how do we divvy up the =
fees for=20
the Sectors to cover their costs: examples would be someone who does 1 =
Sector=20
vs. someone who does 7.  Do I also get the impression that the =
suggestion=20
is that Sector events would be charged not as part of the Sector fee, =
but on an=20
entrance ticket to each event type basis?  We might be able to make =
this=20
work but the question is how.


 


And=20
yes, the JONAT fees should only cover the basic minimum in my opinion so =
the=20
costs can be kept down.


 




Bob=20
England


 


 -----Original=20
Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=20
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike=20
O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 9:09 PM
To:=20
jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE:=20
FYI

 It seems complicated to administer =
with two=20
separate fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is =
little if=20
any variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of =
them may=20
run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements =
are for=20
the sector. 

If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership =
will it=20
come from the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA=20
coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees?

This is a =
nightmare. I=20
suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on and their car =
may suffer=20
a dilemma it would be prudent that they have their own coverage. =


We=20
should restrict charges to participants to those things that are =
absolutely=20
essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors or =
national=20
leadership:

Insurance to cover all our =
liability
Advertising(where it=20
will gain us sponsors)
Printing of critical information for=20
participants
and   ???????

Mike
--=20
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org 

Bob=20
wrote:


Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration =
fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee =
to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as =
I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  

  
This would be a great idea =
... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?


    



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list=20
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


  



------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3BA3B.A767CB60--


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 07:11:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob England)
Date: Thu Dec  4 07:11:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C3BA3E.0B913430
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mark ... not only the EC, but the SC's too ... I'll talk to Jamie and Fazal
about this and see if we can develop a plan ...

Bob

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Brad Preiss
Sent: December 4, 2003 1:07 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI



WOW - and I got lambasted for the idea of a simple conference call -
funny... isn't it?

Bob - I think the executive committee needs to have a con call - ASAP - set
a fee - and that's that.

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:35 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


  Mike: I agree completely. The more complicated this becomes, the less fun
it is. The more expensive we make this, the fewer will participate. There
are hotel fees, meals, etc. that every participant must count on. Hotel
reates will vary widely. In Victoria it will be $129 Canadian (that is about
$100 US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay here.
      JONAT should be charging only the absolute minimum needed. Let the
participant loook after his own car (with appropriate guidance for service
etc. from sector coordinators). If we go much further along this road we
will be asking for a fee for health insurance too. Come to think of it, each
participant, if travelling out of his own area, should arrange for out of
province or out of country health insurance; that is especially important
for Canadian travelling in the US.
      So on the registration page, perhaps we should have a list of very
strong recommendations: 1) proper preparation of the cars: coolant hoses,
fuel hoses, etc.,  2)CAA/AAA membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra
health insurance 4) what else?
                                  Gregory

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Mike O'Brien
    To: jonat@autox.team.net
    Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:09 PM
    Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


     It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the
sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?.
Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into
wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the
sector.

    If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from the
overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will that
mean two possible overall fees?

    This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they
have their own coverage.

    We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
or national leadership:

    Insurance to cover all our liability
    Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
    Printing of critical information for participants
    and   ???????

    Mike

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org
    Bob wrote:

Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  This would be a great idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?





_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________




------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C3BA3E.0B913430
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Mark=20
... not only the EC, but the SC's too ... I'll talk to Jamie and Fazal =
about=20
this and see if we can develop a plan ...


 




Bob 


 -----Original Message-----
From: =
jonat-admin@autox.team.net=20
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Brad=20
Preiss
Sent: December 4, 2003 1:07 AM
To:=20
jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE:=20
FYI



WOW -=20
and I got lambasted for the idea of a simple conference call - funny... =
isn't=20
it?


 


Bob -=20
I think the executive committee needs to have a con call - ASAP - set a =
fee -=20
and that's that.


 


Brad


 


-----Original =
Message-----
From:=20
jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On =
Behalf Of=20
Dr Gregory Andrachuk
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 =
11:35=20
PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: =

FYI




  
Mike: I agree completely. The more =
complicated=20
  this becomes, the less fun it is. The more expensive we make this, the =
fewer=20
  will participate. There are hotel fees, meals, etc. that every =
participant=20
  must count on. Hotel reates will vary widely. In Victoria it will be =
$129=20
  Canadian (that is about $100 US) - one reason I wanted a shorter stay=20
  here.

  
    JONAT should be =
charging only=20
  the absolute minimum needed. Let the participant loook after his own =
car (with=20
  appropriate guidance for service etc. from sector coordinators). If we =
go much=20
  further along this road we will be asking for a fee for health =
insurance too.=20
  Come to think of it, each participant, if travelling out of his own =
area,=20
  should arrange for out of province or out of country health insurance; =
that is=20
  especially important for Canadian travelling in the US.

  
    So on the =
registration page,=20
  perhaps we should have a list of very strong recommendations: 1) =
proper=20
  preparation of the cars: coolant hoses, fuel hoses, etc.,  =
2)CAA/AAA=20
  membership in case of breakdown, 3) extra health insurance 4) what=20
  else?

  
        =

              =
   =20
          Gregory 

  
 

  

    
----- Original Message ----- 

    From:=20
    Mike =
O'Brien=20
    
    
    
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, =
2003 7:09=20
    PM

    
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: =
FYI

    

 It seems complicated to administer with two =
separate=20
    fees.Will the sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if =
any=20
    variation?. Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of =
them may=20
    run into wildly varying costs depending on how complex the =
arrangements are=20
    for the sector. 

If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short =
membership=20
    will it come from the overall fee? What about those who already have =
CAA/AAA=20
    coverage-will that mean two possible overall fees?

This is a=20
    nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head screwed on =
and=20
    their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they have =
their own=20
    coverage. 

We should restrict charges to participants to =
those things=20
    that are absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged =
by the=20
    sectors or national leadership:

Insurance to cover all our=20
    liability
Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
Printing =
of=20
    critical information for participants
and  =20
    ???????

Mike
--=20
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org 

Bob=20
    wrote:

    
Mike

I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector registration =
fee.
That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour related costs
(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector registration fee =
to
cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet (as far as =
I
know).

Any other thoughts on this?

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I am not up to
speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for the entire
tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the above apply
what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

--
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org


Bob wrote:

  

      
This would be a great =
idea ... we might offer a small degree of free
advertising with this.  Does anyone have any contacts with AAA or CAA ?

Bob England

 -----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net=
 [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.=
net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

A thought about repairs:

It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA emergency service with
paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and their Canadian
counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?


    



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list=20
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


  



------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C3BA3E.0B913430--


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 10:53:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Thu Dec  4 10:53:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200312041752.hB4HqoGx005083@autox.team.net>

If we keep this simple, what sector costs do we have? I can only think of
two.
 
1. The cost to drive the route and case the hotels, and
2. The cost to print up route books.
 
Regarding #1, I consider that a part of the fun of being an SC. If someone
wants to reimburse me, that's fine, but I'm not expecting it. If charging
people to cover the costs means fewer people on the trip, I would prefer to
not be reimbursed.
 
Regarding route books, on our registration form, we should have checkboxes
for the sectors the participants will be driving and a couple boxes for
route books. For example:
 
Route books
 
( ) I will download and print my own
( ) I will purchase route books at the beginning of each sector for $10.00
each 

(...or whatever, making it the same for each sector for simplicity. but it
should be high enough to cover the cost of Xeroxing the largest route book
with about 50% tacked on so the SCs can afford to have a few extra copies
for the people who forget theirs.)
 
So, for #2, the SCs will be reimbursed directly by the participants and we
eliminate the hassle of divvying up funds.
 
What do we have for JONAT-wide costs?
 
I'm sure we can get additions to this by the folks at the top who are doing
yeoman's work, but at this point, the ones that are obvious to me would be 
 
1. memorabilia items (covered by the participants)
2. binder with tabs for the route maps (covered by the participants)
3. web site stuff, especially if it has been costing anyone anything out of
pocket
4. Fazal's airfare (just kidding ;->)
 
Feel free to add to the list -- it is something we should enumerate. Then,
when we have something close to a total we need to determine if we have
enough to justify a JONAT fee and all the complications it will create. If
the amount is small, could it be more easily covered by some markup on
memorabilia items? (Let me know if we need anything like that. I have a
place I deal with here for some of our local and some JCNA items.)

I'm with the K.I.S.S. group. If we can negotiate a special rate with AAA/CAA
and offer it to the participants like we are with the lodging (i.e. call and
mention JONAT and you'll receive the special rate for the special time
period) or if they will offer coverage for free then I say, "Go for it." 

Everything we consider should be viewed through the dual lenses of "will
this increase participation in JONAT" balanced with "how much more effort
will this be for the top brass and SCs." Free blanket coverage for everyone
or xAA coverage at a special rate arranged by the participant directly
through xAA might entice a handful of people to sign up who otherwise
wouldn't and it should not be a great burden to set up. 

OTOH, I think we should avoid a JONAT-wide participation fee if at all
possible. It complicates administration. Sector fees will complicate things
even more. Generally, making people pay more won't increase turnout.

Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
April 15 - July 4, 2004
Visit the Pub for route discussions 

________________________________

	From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Bob
	Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:53 AM
	To: jonat@autox.team.net
	Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
	
	
	If I remember this thread correctly, were we not going to try to
offer CAA/AAA a sponsorship if they were to provide gratis breakdown
services(?)
	 
	Regarding fees, if we have a single registration fee (an idea which
I like by the way) rather than a Sector fee, then how do we divvy up the
fees for the Sectors to cover their costs: examples would be someone who
does 1 Sector vs. someone who does 7.  Do I also get the impression that the
suggestion is that Sector events would be charged not as part of the Sector
fee, but on an entrance ticket to each event type basis?  We might be able
to make this work but the question is how.
	 
	And yes, the JONAT fees should only cover the basic minimum in my
opinion so the costs can be kept down.
	 

	Bob England
	

	 
	 -----Original Message-----
	From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
	Sent: December 3, 2003 9:09 PM
	To: jonat@autox.team.net
	Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
	
	
	 It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the
sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?.
Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into
wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the
sector. 
	
	If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from
the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will
that mean two possible overall fees?
	
	This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they
have their own coverage. 
	
	We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
or national leadership:
	
	Insurance to cover all our liability
	Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
	Printing of critical information for participants
	and   ???????
	
	Mike
	
	-- 
	Mike O'Brien
	Ottawa Sector Coordinator
	Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
	http://www.jonat.org 

	Bob wrote:
	

		Mike
		
		I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector
registration fee.
		That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour
related costs
		(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector
registration fee to
		cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet
(as far as I
		know).
		
		Any other thoughts on this?
		
		Bob
		
		
		
		-----Original Message-----
		From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
		Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
		Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
		To: jonat@autox.team.net
		Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
		
		
		I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I
am not up to
		speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for
the entire
		tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the
above apply
		what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?
		
		--
		Mike O'Brien
		Ottawa Sector Coordinator
		Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
		http://www.jonat.org
		
		
		Bob wrote:
		
		  

			This would be a great idea ... we might offer a
small degree of free
			advertising with this.  Does anyone have any
contacts with AAA or CAA ?
			
			Bob England
			
			 -----Original Message-----
			From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
			Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
			Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
			To: JONAT list
			Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
			
			A thought about repairs:
			
			It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA
emergency service with
			paid registration, for the duration of the tour.
			
			Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and
their Canadian
			counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?
			
			
			    

		
		
		
		_______________________________________________
		JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
		REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
		www.jonat.org
		_______________________________________________
		
		_______________________________________________
		JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
		REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
		www.jonat.org
		_______________________________________________
		
		
		  





From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 11:47:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Thu Dec  4 11:47:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: <200312041752.hB4HqoGx005083@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <005801c3ba95$daf86070$77214518@GREG>

Mark: well said on all points. But regarding route books: If the number of
participants is large, this could be a burden on the SC's and their personal
finances if they are expected to pre-pay. There is no budget, after all, for
the individual sectors.  CAA/AAA: their normal practice is to provide
battery assistance, or to tow the car anywhere within a 5 km radius; beyond
that it is chargeable to the car owner, I think, and they normally like to
take the car to a CAA/AAA affliated station, which may  not be, almost
certainly is not going to be a Jaguar mechanic. I really think that we
should be urging the individuals to have their own membership AND prepare
their cars properly so that most eventualities are covered. You cannot
foresee a distributor failure, but there is no need for coolant hose failure
if the car is prepared properly (I may live to regret that I said this; even
new hoses can fail).
                                        Gregory
                                        Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


: If we keep this simple, what sector costs do we have? I can only think of
: two.
:
: 1. The cost to drive the route and case the hotels, and
: 2. The cost to print up route books.
:
: Regarding #1, I consider that a part of the fun of being an SC. If someone
: wants to reimburse me, that's fine, but I'm not expecting it. If charging
: people to cover the costs means fewer people on the trip, I would prefer
to
: not be reimbursed.
:
: Regarding route books, on our registration form, we should have checkboxes
: for the sectors the participants will be driving and a couple boxes for
: route books. For example:
:
: Route books
:
: ( ) I will download and print my own
: ( ) I will purchase route books at the beginning of each sector for $10.00
: each
:
: (...or whatever, making it the same for each sector for simplicity. but it
: should be high enough to cover the cost of Xeroxing the largest route book
: with about 50% tacked on so the SCs can afford to have a few extra copies
: for the people who forget theirs.)
:
: So, for #2, the SCs will be reimbursed directly by the participants and we
: eliminate the hassle of divvying up funds.
:
: What do we have for JONAT-wide costs?
:
: I'm sure we can get additions to this by the folks at the top who are
doing
: yeoman's work, but at this point, the ones that are obvious to me would be
:
: 1. memorabilia items (covered by the participants)
: 2. binder with tabs for the route maps (covered by the participants)
: 3. web site stuff, especially if it has been costing anyone anything out
of
: pocket
: 4. Fazal's airfare (just kidding ;->)
:
: Feel free to add to the list -- it is something we should enumerate. Then,
: when we have something close to a total we need to determine if we have
: enough to justify a JONAT fee and all the complications it will create. If
: the amount is small, could it be more easily covered by some markup on
: memorabilia items? (Let me know if we need anything like that. I have a
: place I deal with here for some of our local and some JCNA items.)
:
: I'm with the K.I.S.S. group. If we can negotiate a special rate with
AAA/CAA
: and offer it to the participants like we are with the lodging (i.e. call
and
: mention JONAT and you'll receive the special rate for the special time
: period) or if they will offer coverage for free then I say, "Go for it."
:
: Everything we consider should be viewed through the dual lenses of "will
: this increase participation in JONAT" balanced with "how much more effort
: will this be for the top brass and SCs." Free blanket coverage for
everyone
: or xAA coverage at a special rate arranged by the participant directly
: through xAA might entice a handful of people to sign up who otherwise
: wouldn't and it should not be a great burden to set up.
:
: OTOH, I think we should avoid a JONAT-wide participation fee if at all
: possible. It complicates administration. Sector fees will complicate
things
: even more. Generally, making people pay more won't increase turnout.
:
: Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
: Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
: April 15 - July 4, 2004
: Visit the Pub for route discussions
:
: ________________________________
:
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]
: On Behalf Of Bob
: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:53 AM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: If I remember this thread correctly, were we not going to try to
: offer CAA/AAA a sponsorship if they were to provide gratis breakdown
: services(?)
:
: Regarding fees, if we have a single registration fee (an idea which
: I like by the way) rather than a Sector fee, then how do we divvy up the
: fees for the Sectors to cover their costs: examples would be someone who
: does 1 Sector vs. someone who does 7.  Do I also get the impression that
the
: suggestion is that Sector events would be charged not as part of the
Sector
: fee, but on an entrance ticket to each event type basis?  We might be able
: to make this work but the question is how.
:
: And yes, the JONAT fees should only cover the basic minimum in my
: opinion so the costs can be kept down.
:
:
: Bob England
:
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
: Sent: December 3, 2003 9:09 PM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the
: sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?.
: Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into
: wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the
: sector.
:
: If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from
: the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will
: that mean two possible overall fees?
:
: This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
: screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that
they
: have their own coverage.
:
: We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
: absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
: or national leadership:
:
: Insurance to cover all our liability
: Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
: Printing of critical information for participants
: and   ???????
:
: Mike
:
: --
: Mike O'Brien
: Ottawa Sector Coordinator
: Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
: http://www.jonat.org
:
: Bob wrote:
:
:
: Mike
:
: I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector
: registration fee.
: That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour
: related costs
: (insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector
: registration fee to
: cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet
: (as far as I
: know).
:
: Any other thoughts on this?
:
: Bob
:
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
: Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I
: am not up to
: speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for
: the entire
: tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the
: above apply
: what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?
:
: --
: Mike O'Brien
: Ottawa Sector Coordinator
: Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
: http://www.jonat.org
:
:
: Bob wrote:
:
:
:
: This would be a great idea ... we might offer a
: small degree of free
: advertising with this.  Does anyone have any
: contacts with AAA or CAA ?
:
: Bob England
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
: Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
: To: JONAT list
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
: A thought about repairs:
:
: It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA
: emergency service with
: paid registration, for the duration of the tour.
:
: Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and
: their Canadian
: counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 12:21:02 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Robert MacLeay)
Date: Thu Dec  4 12:21:02 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <200312041752.hB4HqoGx005083@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: 

3. Rental cost of meeting rooms for handovers/events?

Also, we need to think in terms of cash flow.  If I arrange for a catered
event, the suppliers will be asking at the least for an up-front deposit.
I'll also be paying in full in advance for the materials you've mentioned.

On the other hand, I do have some modest self-publishing capability, and can
handle limited run printing in color or black & white.  I would be willing
to do this -- for at least a few sectors -- for material costs only.
Twenty-five route books for each of twenty-nine sectors might be more than I
can handle in a short period.

Finally, do we wish to handle registration centrally, with a single bank
account and address to send money to, and someone re-mailing to the
appropriate SC's, or do it on a distributed basis, with participants mailing
in several registrations, one to each of the sectors they'll be joining?

-- 

Robert MacLeay  -  Denver, CO
1990 VDP Majestic
Colorado Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owners North American Tour 2004  -  http://jonat.org

on 12/4/03 10:52 AM, Mark Stephenson at marks@jonat.org wrote:

> If we keep this simple, what sector costs do we have? I can only think of
> two.
> 
> 1. The cost to drive the route and case the hotels, and
> 2. The cost to print up route books.



From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 15:11:02 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Thu Dec  4 15:11:02 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Robert

My thoughts on the bank account thing would be, as expressed earlier today,
to keep things simple.  No central account.  Each sector keeps its own
accounting, and the JONAT central accounting would be done in a single
location.  I'm not an accountant, be I am quite sure we would need to keep
everything 100% auditable.

Bob England
'69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
Route Coordinator
http://www.jonat.org 



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
Sent: December 4, 2003 1:17 PM
To: JONAT list
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


3. Rental cost of meeting rooms for handovers/events?

Also, we need to think in terms of cash flow.  If I arrange for a catered
event, the suppliers will be asking at the least for an up-front deposit.
I'll also be paying in full in advance for the materials you've mentioned.

On the other hand, I do have some modest self-publishing capability, and can
handle limited run printing in color or black & white.  I would be willing
to do this -- for at least a few sectors -- for material costs only.
Twenty-five route books for each of twenty-nine sectors might be more than I
can handle in a short period.

Finally, do we wish to handle registration centrally, with a single bank
account and address to send money to, and someone re-mailing to the
appropriate SC's, or do it on a distributed basis, with participants mailing
in several registrations, one to each of the sectors they'll be joining?

--

Robert MacLeay  -  Denver, CO
1990 VDP Majestic
Colorado Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owners North American Tour 2004  -  http://jonat.org

on 12/4/03 10:52 AM, Mark Stephenson at marks@jonat.org wrote:

> If we keep this simple, what sector costs do we have? I can only think of
> two.
>
> 1. The cost to drive the route and case the hotels, and
> 2. The cost to print up route books.


_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 15:11:13 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Thu Dec  4 15:11:13 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <200312041752.hB4HqoGx005083@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: 

I think if ALL Sectors could agree to no fee for participants on a Sector
basis, that would certainly simplify things.  I would assume then that any
planned events would be covered 100% by sponsorships arranged by the Sectors
themselves (?)

If we can do the same JONAT-wide, so much the better.  However, when you add
in things like insurance, someone will have to work pretty hard to work this
one through.

On the other hand, charging $0 might not attract participants either.  I
have learned over the years that people generally place value on items based
on what the have had to pay for it ( in hours, dollars, or whatever).  My
own personal thought would be to have at least a JONAT wide fee kept to a
minimum - any and all profits to charity.

Bob England
'69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
Route Coordinator
http://www.jonat.org



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
Sent: December 4, 2003 11:53 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


If we keep this simple, what sector costs do we have? I can only think of
two.

1. The cost to drive the route and case the hotels, and
2. The cost to print up route books.

Regarding #1, I consider that a part of the fun of being an SC. If someone
wants to reimburse me, that's fine, but I'm not expecting it. If charging
people to cover the costs means fewer people on the trip, I would prefer to
not be reimbursed.

Regarding route books, on our registration form, we should have checkboxes
for the sectors the participants will be driving and a couple boxes for
route books. For example:

Route books

( ) I will download and print my own
( ) I will purchase route books at the beginning of each sector for $10.00
each

(...or whatever, making it the same for each sector for simplicity. but it
should be high enough to cover the cost of Xeroxing the largest route book
with about 50% tacked on so the SCs can afford to have a few extra copies
for the people who forget theirs.)

So, for #2, the SCs will be reimbursed directly by the participants and we
eliminate the hassle of divvying up funds.

What do we have for JONAT-wide costs?

I'm sure we can get additions to this by the folks at the top who are doing
yeoman's work, but at this point, the ones that are obvious to me would be

1. memorabilia items (covered by the participants)
2. binder with tabs for the route maps (covered by the participants)
3. web site stuff, especially if it has been costing anyone anything out of
pocket
4. Fazal's airfare (just kidding ;->)

Feel free to add to the list -- it is something we should enumerate. Then,
when we have something close to a total we need to determine if we have
enough to justify a JONAT fee and all the complications it will create. If
the amount is small, could it be more easily covered by some markup on
memorabilia items? (Let me know if we need anything like that. I have a
place I deal with here for some of our local and some JCNA items.)

I'm with the K.I.S.S. group. If we can negotiate a special rate with AAA/CAA
and offer it to the participants like we are with the lodging (i.e. call and
mention JONAT and you'll receive the special rate for the special time
period) or if they will offer coverage for free then I say, "Go for it."

Everything we consider should be viewed through the dual lenses of "will
this increase participation in JONAT" balanced with "how much more effort
will this be for the top brass and SCs." Free blanket coverage for everyone
or xAA coverage at a special rate arranged by the participant directly
through xAA might entice a handful of people to sign up who otherwise
wouldn't and it should not be a great burden to set up.

OTOH, I think we should avoid a JONAT-wide participation fee if at all
possible. It complicates administration. Sector fees will complicate things
even more. Generally, making people pay more won't increase turnout.

Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
April 15 - July 4, 2004
Visit the Pub for route discussions

________________________________

	From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Bob
	Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:53 AM
	To: jonat@autox.team.net
	Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


	If I remember this thread correctly, were we not going to try to
offer CAA/AAA a sponsorship if they were to provide gratis breakdown
services(?)

	Regarding fees, if we have a single registration fee (an idea which
I like by the way) rather than a Sector fee, then how do we divvy up the
fees for the Sectors to cover their costs: examples would be someone who
does 1 Sector vs. someone who does 7.  Do I also get the impression that the
suggestion is that Sector events would be charged not as part of the Sector
fee, but on an entrance ticket to each event type basis?  We might be able
to make this work but the question is how.

	And yes, the JONAT fees should only cover the basic minimum in my
opinion so the costs can be kept down.


	Bob England



	 -----Original Message-----
	From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
	Sent: December 3, 2003 9:09 PM
	To: jonat@autox.team.net
	Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


	 It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the
sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?.
Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into
wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the
sector.

	If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from
the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will
that mean two possible overall fees?

	This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that they
have their own coverage.

	We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
or national leadership:

	Insurance to cover all our liability
	Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
	Printing of critical information for participants
	and   ???????

	Mike

	--
	Mike O'Brien
	Ottawa Sector Coordinator
	Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
	http://www.jonat.org

	Bob wrote:


		Mike

		I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector
registration fee.
		That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour
related costs
		(insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector
registration fee to
		cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet
(as far as I
		know).

		Any other thoughts on this?

		Bob



		-----Original Message-----
		From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
		Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
		Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
		To: jonat@autox.team.net
		Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


		I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I
am not up to
		speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for
the entire
		tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the
above apply
		what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?

		--
		Mike O'Brien
		Ottawa Sector Coordinator
		Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
		http://www.jonat.org


		Bob wrote:



			This would be a great idea ... we might offer a
small degree of free
			advertising with this.  Does anyone have any
contacts with AAA or CAA ?

			Bob England

			 -----Original Message-----
			From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
			Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
			Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
			To: JONAT list
			Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI

			A thought about repairs:

			It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA
emergency service with
			paid registration, for the duration of the tour.

			Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and
their Canadian
			counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?







		_______________________________________________
		JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
		REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
		www.jonat.org
		_______________________________________________

		_______________________________________________
		JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
		REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
		www.jonat.org
		_______________________________________________







_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 15:18:00 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Ian Bailey)
Date: Thu Dec  4 15:18:00 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
Message-ID: <00a701c3bab4$5c7a3ba0$857ba8c0@accesscomm.ca>

Agree
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:10 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


> I think if ALL Sectors could agree to no fee for participants on a Sector
> basis, that would certainly simplify things.  I would assume then that any
> planned events would be covered 100% by sponsorships arranged by the
Sectors
> themselves (?)
>
> If we can do the same JONAT-wide, so much the better.  However, when you
add
> in things like insurance, someone will have to work pretty hard to work
this
> one through.
>
> On the other hand, charging $0 might not attract participants either.  I
> have learned over the years that people generally place value on items
based
> on what the have had to pay for it ( in hours, dollars, or whatever).  My
> own personal thought would be to have at least a JONAT wide fee kept to a
> minimum - any and all profits to charity.
>
> Bob England
> '69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
> Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
> Route Coordinator
> http://www.jonat.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 4, 2003 11:53 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> If we keep this simple, what sector costs do we have? I can only think of
> two.
>
> 1. The cost to drive the route and case the hotels, and
> 2. The cost to print up route books.
>
> Regarding #1, I consider that a part of the fun of being an SC. If someone
> wants to reimburse me, that's fine, but I'm not expecting it. If charging
> people to cover the costs means fewer people on the trip, I would prefer
to
> not be reimbursed.
>
> Regarding route books, on our registration form, we should have checkboxes
> for the sectors the participants will be driving and a couple boxes for
> route books. For example:
>
> Route books
>
> ( ) I will download and print my own
> ( ) I will purchase route books at the beginning of each sector for $10.00
> each
>
> (...or whatever, making it the same for each sector for simplicity. but it
> should be high enough to cover the cost of Xeroxing the largest route book
> with about 50% tacked on so the SCs can afford to have a few extra copies
> for the people who forget theirs.)
>
> So, for #2, the SCs will be reimbursed directly by the participants and we
> eliminate the hassle of divvying up funds.
>
> What do we have for JONAT-wide costs?
>
> I'm sure we can get additions to this by the folks at the top who are
doing
> yeoman's work, but at this point, the ones that are obvious to me would be
>
> 1. memorabilia items (covered by the participants)
> 2. binder with tabs for the route maps (covered by the participants)
> 3. web site stuff, especially if it has been costing anyone anything out
of
> pocket
> 4. Fazal's airfare (just kidding ;->)
>
> Feel free to add to the list -- it is something we should enumerate. Then,
> when we have something close to a total we need to determine if we have
> enough to justify a JONAT fee and all the complications it will create. If
> the amount is small, could it be more easily covered by some markup on
> memorabilia items? (Let me know if we need anything like that. I have a
> place I deal with here for some of our local and some JCNA items.)
>
> I'm with the K.I.S.S. group. If we can negotiate a special rate with
AAA/CAA
> and offer it to the participants like we are with the lodging (i.e. call
and
> mention JONAT and you'll receive the special rate for the special time
> period) or if they will offer coverage for free then I say, "Go for it."
>
> Everything we consider should be viewed through the dual lenses of "will
> this increase participation in JONAT" balanced with "how much more effort
> will this be for the top brass and SCs." Free blanket coverage for
everyone
> or xAA coverage at a special rate arranged by the participant directly
> through xAA might entice a handful of people to sign up who otherwise
> wouldn't and it should not be a great burden to set up.
>
> OTOH, I think we should avoid a JONAT-wide participation fee if at all
> possible. It complicates administration. Sector fees will complicate
things
> even more. Generally, making people pay more won't increase turnout.
>
> Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
> Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
> April 15 - July 4, 2004
> Visit the Pub for route discussions
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:53 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> If I remember this thread correctly, were we not going to try to
> offer CAA/AAA a sponsorship if they were to provide gratis breakdown
> services(?)
>
> Regarding fees, if we have a single registration fee (an idea which
> I like by the way) rather than a Sector fee, then how do we divvy up the
> fees for the Sectors to cover their costs: examples would be someone who
> does 1 Sector vs. someone who does 7.  Do I also get the impression that
the
> suggestion is that Sector events would be charged not as part of the
Sector
> fee, but on an entrance ticket to each event type basis?  We might be able
> to make this work but the question is how.
>
> And yes, the JONAT fees should only cover the basic minimum in my
> opinion so the costs can be kept down.
>
>
> Bob England
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
> Sent: December 3, 2003 9:09 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the
> sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?.
> Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into
> wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the
> sector.
>
> If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from
> the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will
> that mean two possible overall fees?
>
> This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
> screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that
they
> have their own coverage.
>
> We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
> absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
> or national leadership:
>
> Insurance to cover all our liability
> Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
> Printing of critical information for participants
> and   ???????
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike O'Brien
> Ottawa Sector Coordinator
> Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
> http://www.jonat.org
>
> Bob wrote:
>
>
> Mike
>
> I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector
> registration fee.
> That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour
> related costs
> (insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector
> registration fee to
> cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet
> (as far as I
> know).
>
> Any other thoughts on this?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
> Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I
> am not up to
> speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for
> the entire
> tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the
> above apply
> what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?
>
> --
> Mike O'Brien
> Ottawa Sector Coordinator
> Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
> http://www.jonat.org
>
>
> Bob wrote:
>
>
>
> This would be a great idea ... we might offer a
> small degree of free
> advertising with this.  Does anyone have any
> contacts with AAA or CAA ?
>
> Bob England
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
> Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
> To: JONAT list
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
> A thought about repairs:
>
> It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA
> emergency service with
> paid registration, for the duration of the tour.
>
> Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and
> their Canadian
> counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 18:14:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Thu Dec  4 18:14:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
Message-ID: <010c01c3bacc$80b44b60$77214518@GREG>

Bob:
    I don't see how we can get sponsors to pay for a dinner for all the
participants; in our sectors we will have a dinner in Victoria and one in
Vancouver. Presumably you did not mean this? I am hoping that we can have a
welcome reception in each city sponsored perhaps by the dealers (they don't
know this yet!!!!). We have out hotel arrangements in both cities pretty
firm: we are counting on 25 rooms in Victoria and 30 in Vancouver (because
some Victoria people will be continuing on). Is this the sort of number we
are working with in other sectors?
                                            Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:10 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


: I think if ALL Sectors could agree to no fee for participants on a Sector
: basis, that would certainly simplify things.  I would assume then that any
: planned events would be covered 100% by sponsorships arranged by the
Sectors
: themselves (?)
:
: If we can do the same JONAT-wide, so much the better.  However, when you
add
: in things like insurance, someone will have to work pretty hard to work
this
: one through.
:
: On the other hand, charging $0 might not attract participants either.  I
: have learned over the years that people generally place value on items
based
: on what the have had to pay for it ( in hours, dollars, or whatever).  My
: own personal thought would be to have at least a JONAT wide fee kept to a
: minimum - any and all profits to charity.
:
: Bob England
: '69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
: Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
: Route Coordinator
: http://www.jonat.org
:
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
: Sent: December 4, 2003 11:53 AM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: If we keep this simple, what sector costs do we have? I can only think of
: two.
:
: 1. The cost to drive the route and case the hotels, and
: 2. The cost to print up route books.
:
: Regarding #1, I consider that a part of the fun of being an SC. If someone
: wants to reimburse me, that's fine, but I'm not expecting it. If charging
: people to cover the costs means fewer people on the trip, I would prefer
to
: not be reimbursed.
:
: Regarding route books, on our registration form, we should have checkboxes
: for the sectors the participants will be driving and a couple boxes for
: route books. For example:
:
: Route books
:
: ( ) I will download and print my own
: ( ) I will purchase route books at the beginning of each sector for $10.00
: each
:
: (...or whatever, making it the same for each sector for simplicity. but it
: should be high enough to cover the cost of Xeroxing the largest route book
: with about 50% tacked on so the SCs can afford to have a few extra copies
: for the people who forget theirs.)
:
: So, for #2, the SCs will be reimbursed directly by the participants and we
: eliminate the hassle of divvying up funds.
:
: What do we have for JONAT-wide costs?
:
: I'm sure we can get additions to this by the folks at the top who are
doing
: yeoman's work, but at this point, the ones that are obvious to me would be
:
: 1. memorabilia items (covered by the participants)
: 2. binder with tabs for the route maps (covered by the participants)
: 3. web site stuff, especially if it has been costing anyone anything out
of
: pocket
: 4. Fazal's airfare (just kidding ;->)
:
: Feel free to add to the list -- it is something we should enumerate. Then,
: when we have something close to a total we need to determine if we have
: enough to justify a JONAT fee and all the complications it will create. If
: the amount is small, could it be more easily covered by some markup on
: memorabilia items? (Let me know if we need anything like that. I have a
: place I deal with here for some of our local and some JCNA items.)
:
: I'm with the K.I.S.S. group. If we can negotiate a special rate with
AAA/CAA
: and offer it to the participants like we are with the lodging (i.e. call
and
: mention JONAT and you'll receive the special rate for the special time
: period) or if they will offer coverage for free then I say, "Go for it."
:
: Everything we consider should be viewed through the dual lenses of "will
: this increase participation in JONAT" balanced with "how much more effort
: will this be for the top brass and SCs." Free blanket coverage for
everyone
: or xAA coverage at a special rate arranged by the participant directly
: through xAA might entice a handful of people to sign up who otherwise
: wouldn't and it should not be a great burden to set up.
:
: OTOH, I think we should avoid a JONAT-wide participation fee if at all
: possible. It complicates administration. Sector fees will complicate
things
: even more. Generally, making people pay more won't increase turnout.
:
: Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
: Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
: April 15 - July 4, 2004
: Visit the Pub for route discussions
:
: ________________________________
:
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]
: On Behalf Of Bob
: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:53 AM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: If I remember this thread correctly, were we not going to try to
: offer CAA/AAA a sponsorship if they were to provide gratis breakdown
: services(?)
:
: Regarding fees, if we have a single registration fee (an idea which
: I like by the way) rather than a Sector fee, then how do we divvy up the
: fees for the Sectors to cover their costs: examples would be someone who
: does 1 Sector vs. someone who does 7.  Do I also get the impression that
the
: suggestion is that Sector events would be charged not as part of the
Sector
: fee, but on an entrance ticket to each event type basis?  We might be able
: to make this work but the question is how.
:
: And yes, the JONAT fees should only cover the basic minimum in my
: opinion so the costs can be kept down.
:
:
: Bob England
:
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
: Sent: December 3, 2003 9:09 PM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: It seems complicated to administer with two separate fees.Will the
: sector fees be rationalized so that there is little if any variation?.
: Someone who drives six or seven sectors or even all of them may run into
: wildly varying costs depending on how complex the arrangements are for the
: sector.
:
: If the CAA/AAA offer a discounted short membership will it come from
: the overall fee? What about those who already have CAA/AAA coverage-will
: that mean two possible overall fees?
:
: This is a nightmare. I suggest that if a participant has their head
: screwed on and their car may suffer a dilemma it would be prudent that
they
: have their own coverage.
:
: We should restrict charges to participants to those things that are
: absolutely essential for the group and can only be arranged by the sectors
: or national leadership:
:
: Insurance to cover all our liability
: Advertising(where it will gain us sponsors)
: Printing of critical information for participants
: and   ???????
:
: Mike
:
: --
: Mike O'Brien
: Ottawa Sector Coordinator
: Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
: http://www.jonat.org
:
: Bob wrote:
:
:
: Mike
:
: I think we will see a Tour registration fee, and a Sector
: registration fee.
: That is, a Tour registration fee to cover overall Tour
: related costs
: (insurance, perhaps grille badges, etc.) and a Sector
: registration fee to
: cover maps, events, and the like.  No fees have been set yet
: (as far as I
: know).
:
: Any other thoughts on this?
:
: Bob
:
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Mike O'Brien
: Sent: December 3, 2003 6:24 PM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: I am prepared to approach CAA headquarters in Ottawa but I
: am not up to
: speed on  registration. Are we talking about one  fee for
: the entire
: tour, one fee for each sector or what? And if any of the
: above apply
: what amount has been set and to whom is it paid?
:
: --
: Mike O'Brien
: Ottawa Sector Coordinator
: Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
: http://www.jonat.org
:
:
: Bob wrote:
:
:
:
: This would be a great idea ... we might offer a
: small degree of free
: advertising with this.  Does anyone have any
: contacts with AAA or CAA ?
:
: Bob England
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Robert MacLeay
: Sent: November 29, 2003 10:40 PM
: To: JONAT list
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
: A thought about repairs:
:
: It would be nice to be able to offer free AAA
: emergency service with
: paid registration, for the duration of the tour.
:
: Anyone care to offer to negotiate with them (and
: their Canadian
: counterpart, CAA) on behalf of the group?
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 19:11:02 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Thu Dec  4 19:11:02 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References:  <010c01c3bacc$80b44b60$77214518@GREG>
Message-ID: <001701c3bad5$01f54f00$7405fea9@CPQ16632140611>

Gregory

If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not have a sponsor,
then the participants will have to pay (am I following you correctly?).
Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and hence a Sector
fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the door - still a
form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but tougheer to
predict numbers.

I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a light for your
area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
national and international press we can get.  It's a good place to start
though.

Bob


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


> Bob:
>     I don't see how we can get sponsors to pay for a dinner for all the
> participants; in our sectors we will have a dinner in Victoria and one in
> Vancouver. Presumably you did not mean this? I am hoping that we can have
a
> welcome reception in each city sponsored perhaps by the dealers (they
don't
> know this yet!!!!). We have out hotel arrangements in both cities pretty
> firm: we are counting on 25 rooms in Victoria and 30 in Vancouver (because
> some Victoria people will be continuing on). Is this the sort of number we
> are working with in other sectors?
>                                             Gregory
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:10 PM
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> : I think if ALL Sectors could agree to no fee for participants on a
Sector
> : basis, that would certainly simplify things.  I would assume then that
any
> : planned events would be covered 100% by sponsorships arranged by the
> Sectors
> : themselves (?)
> :
> : If we can do the same JONAT-wide, so much the better.  However, when you
> add
> : in things like insurance, someone will have to work pretty hard to work
> this
> : one through.
> :
> : On the other hand, charging $0 might not attract participants either.  I
> : have learned over the years that people generally place value on items
> based
> : on what the have had to pay for it ( in hours, dollars, or whatever).
My
> : own personal thought would be to have at least a JONAT wide fee kept to
a
> : minimum - any and all profits to charity.
> :
> : Bob England



From jonat@autox.team.net  Thu Dec  4 21:22:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Thu Dec  4 21:22:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
 <010c01c3bacc$80b44b60$77214518@GREG>
 <001701c3bad5$01f54f00$7405fea9@CPQ16632140611>
Message-ID: <003401c3bae6$a921b9b0$77214518@GREG>

Bob: yes, if there is a dinner, and I thought that is what we were all
doing, then there has to be a sector fee, although I am not sure how we
collect this. If the other sectors are not having a meal, I'd like to know
very soon.
                                                Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI


: Gregory
:
: If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not have a
sponsor,
: then the participants will have to pay (am I following you correctly?).
: Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and hence a Sector
: fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the door - still
a
: form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but tougheer to
: predict numbers.
:
: I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a light for your
: area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
: national and international press we can get.  It's a good place to start
: though.
:
: Bob
:
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 
: To: 
: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:09 PM
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: > Bob:
: >     I don't see how we can get sponsors to pay for a dinner for all the
: > participants; in our sectors we will have a dinner in Victoria and one
in
: > Vancouver. Presumably you did not mean this? I am hoping that we can
have
: a
: > welcome reception in each city sponsored perhaps by the dealers (they
: don't
: > know this yet!!!!). We have out hotel arrangements in both cities pretty
: > firm: we are counting on 25 rooms in Victoria and 30 in Vancouver
(because
: > some Victoria people will be continuing on). Is this the sort of number
we
: > are working with in other sectors?
: >                                             Gregory
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Bob" 
: > To: 
: > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:10 PM
: > Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: >
: > : I think if ALL Sectors could agree to no fee for participants on a
: Sector
: > : basis, that would certainly simplify things.  I would assume then that
: any
: > : planned events would be covered 100% by sponsorships arranged by the
: > Sectors
: > : themselves (?)
: > :
: > : If we can do the same JONAT-wide, so much the better.  However, when
you
: > add
: > : in things like insurance, someone will have to work pretty hard to
work
: > this
: > : one through.
: > :
: > : On the other hand, charging $0 might not attract participants either.
I
: > : have learned over the years that people generally place value on items
: > based
: > : on what the have had to pay for it ( in hours, dollars, or whatever).
: My
: > : own personal thought would be to have at least a JONAT wide fee kept
to
: a
: > : minimum - any and all profits to charity.
: > :
: > : Bob England
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 00:28:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Fri Dec  5 00:28:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <001701c3bad5$01f54f00$7405fea9@CPQ16632140611>
Message-ID: <200312050727.hB57RNGx000516@autox.team.net>

Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, but I thought we
were doing three things:

1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.

People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I can think of
that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. They would be
on line, available for download. Since most of our communication with the
world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the participants will
hear about us. 

Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most copy places in
Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the charge at $5.00.
That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the checkboxes as I
suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how many people
will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated that they were
planning to download and print out the route book, that would leave me 10
that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for $50, and perhaps
a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a copier and will
make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would have to be
25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.

The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small part of my
costs of scouting out the route.

I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a get-together
at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be nice, we're not
running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People pay $4000+ for
those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. By comparison we
have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto Tour (BEAT).
It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday and pays for a
sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel Saturday night,
with special room rates, but entrants make their own reservations, they
choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals Sunday. The
last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.

If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would be up to the
SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance it.  In keeping
with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a scheduled event
dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet dinner on their
own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying for their dinner.
The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona Sector, and there's
a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to join us, we'd
certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support preservation of
Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you would have to,
but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to pay for a block
of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when they show up,
that's going to be up to the participant.

We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I really think we
should provide some nice mementos that people will want to buy. The most
obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that would fold back
flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed dividers for
each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if they really
enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the entire route.
Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or imprinted. They
make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think there would be
some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would love to have
their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We could date
them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave them generic.
We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for vendors who want
their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could get route-book
printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the bottom of each
page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the memorabilia.
Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two years. If we
have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, but I'd keep a
chunk for seed money for 2006.

The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set a deadline
after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The problem is that it
has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect that half of
our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in Williams Friday
night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday Morning. They will
have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they would be about
paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the run will be
organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them participating with the
rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
deterred by a second cost for half a sector.

See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the realities of
our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that fee should be
requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the people only doing
one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).

Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
April 15 - July 4, 2004

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net 
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> Gregory
> 
> If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not 
> have a sponsor,
> then the participants will have to pay (am I following you 
> correctly?).
> Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and 
> hence a Sector
> fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the 
> door - still a
> form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but 
> tougheer to
> predict numbers.
> 
> I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a 
> light for your
> area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
> national and international press we can get.  It's a good 
> place to start
> though.
> 
> Bob




From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 07:35:02 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Fri Dec  5 07:35:02 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <200312050727.hB57RNGx000516@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: 

Mark

You have some really good comments..

You are absolutely right in the three basic things we are putting together,
with specific events over and above this up to the SC's.

I think the only thing I might disagree on is zero JONAT fee for one Sector
participation - but only because I think this will encourage single sector
participants.  The key is keeping it low enough so it will not deter anyone
from participating.

I'd be very interested to hear other's thoughts on this fee thread, as $ is
what will complicate things as Mark says.

The thing that I keep wondering about is insurance.  If we sell the route
books independent of tour registration, then are we liable if someone gets
in an accident, or lost "on the wrong side of the tracks" and gets into
trouble, if they buy a book but do not register for the Tour and are
therefore not covered by Tour insurance?  Perhaps this leads into a separate
thread on insurance (any experts in insurance or law out there?) -or- is
there some way we can have a waiver signed and not have to worry about
insurance?

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
Sent: December 5, 2003 1:27 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, but I thought we
were doing three things:

1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.

People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I can think of
that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. They would be
on line, available for download. Since most of our communication with the
world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the participants will
hear about us.

Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most copy places in
Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the charge at $5.00.
That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the checkboxes as I
suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how many people
will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated that they were
planning to download and print out the route book, that would leave me 10
that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for $50, and perhaps
a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a copier and will
make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would have to be
25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.

The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small part of my
costs of scouting out the route.

I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a get-together
at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be nice, we're not
running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People pay $4000+ for
those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. By comparison we
have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto Tour (BEAT).
It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday and pays for a
sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel Saturday night,
with special room rates, but entrants make their own reservations, they
choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals Sunday. The
last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.

If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would be up to the
SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance it.  In keeping
with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a scheduled event
dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet dinner on their
own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying for their dinner.
The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona Sector, and there's
a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to join us, we'd
certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support preservation of
Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you would have to,
but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to pay for a block
of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when they show up,
that's going to be up to the participant.

We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I really think we
should provide some nice mementos that people will want to buy. The most
obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that would fold back
flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed dividers for
each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if they really
enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the entire route.
Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or imprinted. They
make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think there would be
some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would love to have
their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We could date
them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave them generic.
We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for vendors who want
their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could get route-book
printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the bottom of each
page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the memorabilia.
Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two years. If we
have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, but I'd keep a
chunk for seed money for 2006.

The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set a deadline
after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The problem is that it
has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect that half of
our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in Williams Friday
night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday Morning. They will
have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they would be about
paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the run will be
organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them participating with the
rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
deterred by a second cost for half a sector.

See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the realities of
our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that fee should be
requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the people only doing
one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).

Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
April 15 - July 4, 2004

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
> Gregory
>
> If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not
> have a sponsor,
> then the participants will have to pay (am I following you
> correctly?).
> Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and
> hence a Sector
> fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the
> door - still a
> form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but
> tougheer to
> predict numbers.
>
> I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a
> light for your
> area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
> national and international press we can get.  It's a good
> place to start
> though.
>
> Bob



_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 09:54:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Fri Dec  5 09:54:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200312051653.hB5GrtGx017425@autox.team.net>

Bob,

I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our butts covered. Not
that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would then have to
show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book. 

Mark 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net 
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:34 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> Mark
> 
> You have some really good comments..
> 
> You are absolutely right in the three basic things we are 
> putting together,
> with specific events over and above this up to the SC's.
> 
> I think the only thing I might disagree on is zero JONAT fee 
> for one Sector
> participation - but only because I think this will encourage 
> single sector
> participants.  The key is keeping it low enough so it will 
> not deter anyone
> from participating.
> 
> I'd be very interested to hear other's thoughts on this fee 
> thread, as $ is
> what will complicate things as Mark says.
> 
> The thing that I keep wondering about is insurance.  If we 
> sell the route
> books independent of tour registration, then are we liable if 
> someone gets
> in an accident, or lost "on the wrong side of the tracks" and 
> gets into
> trouble, if they buy a book but do not register for the Tour and are
> therefore not covered by Tour insurance?  Perhaps this leads 
> into a separate
> thread on insurance (any experts in insurance or law out 
> there?) -or- is
> there some way we can have a waiver signed and not have to worry about
> insurance?
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 5, 2003 1:27 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> 
> Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, 
> but I thought we
> were doing three things:
> 
> 1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
> 2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
> 3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.
> 
> People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
> themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I 
> can think of
> that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. 
> They would be
> on line, available for download. Since most of our 
> communication with the
> world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the 
> participants will
> hear about us.
> 
> Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most 
> copy places in
> Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
> participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
> website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the 
> charge at $5.00.
> That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the 
> checkboxes as I
> suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how 
> many people
> will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated 
> that they were
> planning to download and print out the route book, that would 
> leave me 10
> that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
> outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for 
> $50, and perhaps
> a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a 
> copier and will
> make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would 
> have to be
> 25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.
> 
> The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small 
> part of my
> costs of scouting out the route.
> 
> I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a 
> get-together
> at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be 
> nice, we're not
> running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People 
> pay $4000+ for
> those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
> including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. 
> By comparison we
> have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto 
> Tour (BEAT).
> It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday 
> and pays for a
> sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel 
> Saturday night,
> with special room rates, but entrants make their own 
> reservations, they
> choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals 
> Sunday. The
> last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.
> 
> If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would 
> be up to the
> SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
> sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance 
> it.  In keeping
> with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a 
> scheduled event
> dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet 
> dinner on their
> own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying 
> for their dinner.
> The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona 
> Sector, and there's
> a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to 
> join us, we'd
> certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support 
> preservation of
> Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you 
> would have to,
> but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to 
> pay for a block
> of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when 
> they show up,
> that's going to be up to the participant.
> 
> We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I 
> really think we
> should provide some nice mementos that people will want to 
> buy. The most
> obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that 
> would fold back
> flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed 
> dividers for
> each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if 
> they really
> enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the 
> entire route.
> Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or 
> imprinted. They
> make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think 
> there would be
> some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would 
> love to have
> their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We 
> could date
> them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave 
> them generic.
> We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for 
> vendors who want
> their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could 
> get route-book
> printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the 
> bottom of each
> page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the 
> memorabilia.
> Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two 
> years. If we
> have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, 
> but I'd keep a
> chunk for seed money for 2006.
> 
> The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set 
> a deadline
> after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The 
> problem is that it
> has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect 
> that half of
> our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in 
> Williams Friday
> night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday 
> Morning. They will
> have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they 
> would be about
> paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the 
> run will be
> organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them 
> participating with the
> rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
> deterred by a second cost for half a sector.
> 
> See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the 
> realities of
> our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that 
> fee should be
> requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the 
> people only doing
> one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).
> 
> Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
> Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
> April 15 - July 4, 2004
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
> > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> >
> > Gregory
> >
> > If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not
> > have a sponsor,
> > then the participants will have to pay (am I following you
> > correctly?).
> > Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and
> > hence a Sector
> > fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the
> > door - still a
> > form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but
> > tougheer to
> > predict numbers.
> >
> > I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a
> > light for your
> > area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, 
> and how much
> > national and international press we can get.  It's a good
> > place to start
> > though.
> >
> > Bob
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
> 




From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 10:12:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Fri Dec  5 10:12:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: <200312050727.hB57RNGx000516@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c3bb52$403c4570$77214518@GREG>

Mark:
    Well said on every point, and my undertsanding of this tour is
preceisely the same as the one you lay out in the first paragraph.
                                        Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 11:27 PM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


: Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, but I thought
we
: were doing three things:
:
: 1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
: 2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
: 3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.
:
: People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
: themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I can think of
: that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. They would be
: on line, available for download. Since most of our communication with the
: world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the participants will
: hear about us.
:
: Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most copy places in
: Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
: participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
: website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the charge at
$5.00.
: That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the checkboxes as
I
: suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how many people
: will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated that they
were
: planning to download and print out the route book, that would leave me 10
: that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
: outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for $50, and
perhaps
: a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a copier and will
: make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would have to be
: 25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.
:
: The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small part of my
: costs of scouting out the route.
:
: I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a get-together
: at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be nice, we're not
: running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People pay $4000+
for
: those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
: including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. By comparison
we
: have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto Tour (BEAT).
: It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday and pays for
a
: sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel Saturday night,
: with special room rates, but entrants make their own reservations, they
: choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals Sunday. The
: last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.
:
: If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would be up to the
: SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
: sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance it.  In keeping
: with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a scheduled event
: dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet dinner on their
: own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying for their
dinner.
: The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona Sector, and
there's
: a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to join us, we'd
: certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support preservation of
: Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you would have
to,
: but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to pay for a
block
: of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when they show up,
: that's going to be up to the participant.
:
: We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I really think
we
: should provide some nice mementos that people will want to buy. The most
: obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that would fold back
: flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed dividers for
: each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if they really
: enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the entire route.
: Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or imprinted. They
: make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think there would be
: some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would love to have
: their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We could date
: them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave them generic.
: We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for vendors who want
: their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could get route-book
: printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the bottom of
each
: page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the memorabilia.
: Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two years. If we
: have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, but I'd keep a
: chunk for seed money for 2006.
:
: The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set a deadline
: after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The problem is that it
: has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect that half of
: our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in Williams Friday
: night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday Morning. They will
: have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they would be
about
: paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the run will be
: organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them participating with
the
: rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
: deterred by a second cost for half a sector.
:
: See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the realities of
: our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that fee should be
: requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the people only doing
: one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).
:
: Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
: Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
: April 15 - July 4, 2004
:
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
: > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
: > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: > Gregory
: >
: > If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not
: > have a sponsor,
: > then the participants will have to pay (am I following you
: > correctly?).
: > Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and
: > hence a Sector
: > fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the
: > door - still a
: > form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but
: > tougheer to
: > predict numbers.
: >
: > I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a
: > light for your
: > area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
: > national and international press we can get.  It's a good
: > place to start
: > though.
: >
: > Bob
:
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 10:53:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jamie - JONAT)
Date: Fri Dec  5 10:53:01 2003
Subject: Waiver; was Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
Message-ID: <00b401c3bb58$48cfcd00$6501a8c0@attbi.com>

I thought we had put this issue behind us about 4 months ago.  At that time
we decided a disclaimer was to be signed by everyone "officially"
participating in JONAT.  I'm of course no lawyer but I believe if it is
worded properly we can be 97% protected from unsolicited lawsuits.  (And
that may be the best anyone could hope for).

The problem is probably still alive in our planning state as we (I?) dropped
the ball and didn't get this waiver drafted up.  I will take this as an
action item and get something in place shortly after the start of the new
year.

My memory serves me as the idea was to get participants (drivers &
passengers) to sign either upon registration or at the Sector handoff
points.  If done at a Sector handoff point, a copy can be kept by the
participant to show at the "next" Sector that it was already completed.  The
original should be mailed to JONAT "headquarters" , but more immediately it should be faxed to
there by end of day so it can be kept on file. (I can provide a fax # too).

Jamie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 6:34 AM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


> Mark
>
> You have some really good comments..
>
> You are absolutely right in the three basic things we are putting
together,
> with specific events over and above this up to the SC's.
>
> I think the only thing I might disagree on is zero JONAT fee for one
Sector
> participation - but only because I think this will encourage single sector
> participants.  The key is keeping it low enough so it will not deter
anyone
> from participating.
>
> I'd be very interested to hear other's thoughts on this fee thread, as $
is
> what will complicate things as Mark says.
>
> The thing that I keep wondering about is insurance.  If we sell the route
> books independent of tour registration, then are we liable if someone gets
> in an accident, or lost "on the wrong side of the tracks" and gets into
> trouble, if they buy a book but do not register for the Tour and are
> therefore not covered by Tour insurance?  Perhaps this leads into a
separate
> thread on insurance (any experts in insurance or law out there?) -or- is
> there some way we can have a waiver signed and not have to worry about
> insurance?
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 5, 2003 1:27 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, but I thought
we
> were doing three things:
>
> 1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
> 2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
> 3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.
>
> People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
> themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I can think of
> that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. They would be
> on line, available for download. Since most of our communication with the
> world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the participants will
> hear about us.
>
> Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most copy places in
> Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
> participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
> website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the charge at
$5.00.
> That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the checkboxes as
I
> suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how many people
> will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated that they
were
> planning to download and print out the route book, that would leave me 10
> that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
> outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for $50, and
perhaps
> a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a copier and will
> make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would have to be
> 25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.
>
> The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small part of my
> costs of scouting out the route.
>
> I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a get-together
> at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be nice, we're not
> running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People pay $4000+
for
> those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
> including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. By comparison
we
> have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto Tour (BEAT).
> It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday and pays for
a
> sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel Saturday night,
> with special room rates, but entrants make their own reservations, they
> choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals Sunday. The
> last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.
>
> If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would be up to the
> SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
> sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance it.  In keeping
> with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a scheduled event
> dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet dinner on their
> own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying for their
dinner.
> The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona Sector, and
there's
> a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to join us, we'd
> certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support preservation of
> Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you would have
to,
> but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to pay for a
block
> of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when they show up,
> that's going to be up to the participant.
>
> We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I really think
we
> should provide some nice mementos that people will want to buy. The most
> obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that would fold back
> flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed dividers for
> each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if they really
> enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the entire route.
> Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or imprinted. They
> make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think there would be
> some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would love to have
> their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We could date
> them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave them generic.
> We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for vendors who want
> their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could get route-book
> printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the bottom of
each
> page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the memorabilia.
> Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two years. If we
> have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, but I'd keep a
> chunk for seed money for 2006.
>
> The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set a deadline
> after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The problem is that it
> has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect that half of
> our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in Williams Friday
> night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday Morning. They will
> have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they would be
about
> paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the run will be
> organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them participating with
the
> rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
> deterred by a second cost for half a sector.
>
> See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the realities of
> our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that fee should be
> requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the people only doing
> one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).
>
> Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
> Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
> April 15 - July 4, 2004
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
> > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> >
> > Gregory
> >
> > If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not
> > have a sponsor,
> > then the participants will have to pay (am I following you
> > correctly?).
> > Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and
> > hence a Sector
> > fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the
> > door - still a
> > form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but
> > tougheer to
> > predict numbers.
> >
> > I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a
> > light for your
> > area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
> > national and international press we can get.  It's a good
> > place to start
> > though.
> >
> > Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>



From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 11:17:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jamie - JONAT)
Date: Fri Dec  5 11:17:01 2003
Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
Message-ID: <00f201c3bb5b$8bcb9960$6501a8c0@attbi.com>

Okay, on the fee thing ...

I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:

$25.00    -    Single Sector
$55.00    -    Two of more Sectors

The monies are to be sent to the PO Box address on the web site and held in
a JONAT account.  They will be doled out to each Sector as required to cover
(reimburse) the cost of printing up the Sector "book", Tour trophies,
decals, etc., and/or any other expenses approved by the EC.  One thing to
keep in mind with this proposal is the word "reimbursed".  As this is a
voluntary organization, the repayment will have to come in a "as time
permits" (within reason of course).  Maybe a once a month "bill paying/check
writing" activity.

Perhaps we can do something like Mark suggested and find a supplier for
JONAT binders which the Tour info can be keep in while cruising the
Sector(s).  Or actually a plain white Binder with a couple of slip-in JONAT
color printed labels would work fine, right?  The dividers sound a bit
involved for this first Tour, unless someone wishes to take on that at their
own Sector level.

Additionally we are very close to having a grill badge to offer which can be
purchased for a percentage over cost to cover shipping.

Jamie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 6:34 AM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


> Mark
>
> You have some really good comments..
>
> You are absolutely right in the three basic things we are putting
together,
> with specific events over and above this up to the SC's.
>
> I think the only thing I might disagree on is zero JONAT fee for one
Sector
> participation - but only because I think this will encourage single sector
> participants.  The key is keeping it low enough so it will not deter
anyone
> from participating.
>
> I'd be very interested to hear other's thoughts on this fee thread, as $
is
> what will complicate things as Mark says.
>
> The thing that I keep wondering about is insurance.  If we sell the route
> books independent of tour registration, then are we liable if someone gets
> in an accident, or lost "on the wrong side of the tracks" and gets into
> trouble, if they buy a book but do not register for the Tour and are
> therefore not covered by Tour insurance?  Perhaps this leads into a
separate
> thread on insurance (any experts in insurance or law out there?) -or- is
> there some way we can have a waiver signed and not have to worry about
> insurance?
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 5, 2003 1:27 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, but I thought
we
> were doing three things:
>
> 1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
> 2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
> 3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.
>
> People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
> themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I can think of
> that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. They would be
> on line, available for download. Since most of our communication with the
> world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the participants will
> hear about us.
>
> Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most copy places in
> Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
> participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
> website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the charge at
$5.00.
> That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the checkboxes as
I
> suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how many people
> will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated that they
were
> planning to download and print out the route book, that would leave me 10
> that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
> outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for $50, and
perhaps
> a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a copier and will
> make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would have to be
> 25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.
>
> The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small part of my
> costs of scouting out the route.
>
> I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a get-together
> at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be nice, we're not
> running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People pay $4000+
for
> those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
> including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. By comparison
we
> have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto Tour (BEAT).
> It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday and pays for
a
> sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel Saturday night,
> with special room rates, but entrants make their own reservations, they
> choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals Sunday. The
> last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.
>
> If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would be up to the
> SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
> sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance it.  In keeping
> with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a scheduled event
> dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet dinner on their
> own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying for their
dinner.
> The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona Sector, and
there's
> a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to join us, we'd
> certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support preservation of
> Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you would have
to,
> but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to pay for a
block
> of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when they show up,
> that's going to be up to the participant.
>
> We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I really think
we
> should provide some nice mementos that people will want to buy. The most
> obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that would fold back
> flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed dividers for
> each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if they really
> enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the entire route.
> Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or imprinted. They
> make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think there would be
> some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would love to have
> their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We could date
> them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave them generic.
> We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for vendors who want
> their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could get route-book
> printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the bottom of
each
> page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the memorabilia.
> Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two years. If we
> have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, but I'd keep a
> chunk for seed money for 2006.
>
> The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set a deadline
> after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The problem is that it
> has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect that half of
> our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in Williams Friday
> night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday Morning. They will
> have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they would be
about
> paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the run will be
> organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them participating with
the
> rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
> deterred by a second cost for half a sector.
>
> See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the realities of
> our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that fee should be
> requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the people only doing
> one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).
>
> Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
> Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
> April 15 - July 4, 2004
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
> > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> >
> > Gregory
> >
> > If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not
> > have a sponsor,
> > then the participants will have to pay (am I following you
> > correctly?).
> > Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and
> > hence a Sector
> > fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the
> > door - still a
> > form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but
> > tougheer to
> > predict numbers.
> >
> > I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a
> > light for your
> > area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
> > national and international press we can get.  It's a good
> > place to start
> > though.
> >
> > Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>



From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 11:37:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Fri Dec  5 11:37:01 2003
Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
 <00f201c3bb5b$8bcb9960$6501a8c0@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <011f01c3bb5d$adaee9e0$77214518@GREG>

OK folks, having read and digested Mark's reality check, bringing us back to
the original idea, I think here in the Victoria / Vancouver sector we will
keep this thing lean and simple, no organised dinner (who wants to eat with
the same people at a fixed price in a fixed place when there are so many
good and interesting restaurants?).
    As far as we are concerned, the participants are adults, responsible for
their own arrangements and travel, but we will provide guidance and
recommendations (hotel accomodation rates have been arranged in both
Victoria and Vancouver; the group will be met arriving from Port Angeles;
the group will be in Vancouver for the Van Dusen All Brityish Car Show, with
a special area on the field set aside).
                                        Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie - JONAT" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI


: Okay, on the fee thing ...
:
: I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:
:
: $25.00    -    Single Sector
: $55.00    -    Two of more Sectors
:
: The monies are to be sent to the PO Box address on the web site and held
in
: a JONAT account.  They will be doled out to each Sector as required to
cover
: (reimburse) the cost of printing up the Sector "book", Tour trophies,
: decals, etc., and/or any other expenses approved by the EC.  One thing to
: keep in mind with this proposal is the word "reimbursed".  As this is a
: voluntary organization, the repayment will have to come in a "as time
: permits" (within reason of course).  Maybe a once a month "bill
paying/check
: writing" activity.
:
: Perhaps we can do something like Mark suggested and find a supplier for
: JONAT binders which the Tour info can be keep in while cruising the
: Sector(s).  Or actually a plain white Binder with a couple of slip-in
JONAT
: color printed labels would work fine, right?  The dividers sound a bit
: involved for this first Tour, unless someone wishes to take on that at
their
: own Sector level.
:
: Additionally we are very close to having a grill badge to offer which can
be
: purchased for a percentage over cost to cover shipping.
:
: Jamie
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Bob" 
: To: 
: Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 6:34 AM
: Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: > Mark
: >
: > You have some really good comments..
: >
: > You are absolutely right in the three basic things we are putting
: together,
: > with specific events over and above this up to the SC's.
: >
: > I think the only thing I might disagree on is zero JONAT fee for one
: Sector
: > participation - but only because I think this will encourage single
sector
: > participants.  The key is keeping it low enough so it will not deter
: anyone
: > from participating.
: >
: > I'd be very interested to hear other's thoughts on this fee thread, as $
: is
: > what will complicate things as Mark says.
: >
: > The thing that I keep wondering about is insurance.  If we sell the
route
: > books independent of tour registration, then are we liable if someone
gets
: > in an accident, or lost "on the wrong side of the tracks" and gets into
: > trouble, if they buy a book but do not register for the Tour and are
: > therefore not covered by Tour insurance?  Perhaps this leads into a
: separate
: > thread on insurance (any experts in insurance or law out there?) -or- is
: > there some way we can have a waiver signed and not have to worry about
: > insurance?
: >
: > Bob
: >
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: > Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
: > Sent: December 5, 2003 1:27 AM
: > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: >
: > Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, but I thought
: we
: > were doing three things:
: >
: > 1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
: > 2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
: > 3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.
: >
: > People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
: > themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I can think
of
: > that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. They would
be
: > on line, available for download. Since most of our communication with
the
: > world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the participants
will
: > hear about us.
: >
: > Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most copy places
in
: > Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
: > participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
: > website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the charge at
: $5.00.
: > That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the checkboxes
as
: I
: > suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how many
people
: > will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated that they
: were
: > planning to download and print out the route book, that would leave me
10
: > that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
: > outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for $50, and
: perhaps
: > a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a copier and
will
: > make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would have to be
: > 25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.
: >
: > The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small part of my
: > costs of scouting out the route.
: >
: > I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a
get-together
: > at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be nice, we're not
: > running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People pay $4000+
: for
: > those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
: > including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. By
comparison
: we
: > have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto Tour (BEAT).
: > It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday and pays
for
: a
: > sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel Saturday
night,
: > with special room rates, but entrants make their own reservations, they
: > choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals Sunday.
The
: > last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.
: >
: > If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would be up to
the
: > SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
: > sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance it.  In
keeping
: > with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a scheduled event
: > dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet dinner on
their
: > own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying for their
: dinner.
: > The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona Sector, and
: there's
: > a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to join us, we'd
: > certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support preservation of
: > Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you would have
: to,
: > but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to pay for a
: block
: > of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when they show up,
: > that's going to be up to the participant.
: >
: > We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I really
think
: we
: > should provide some nice mementos that people will want to buy. The most
: > obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that would fold back
: > flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed dividers for
: > each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if they really
: > enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the entire route.
: > Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or imprinted. They
: > make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think there would
be
: > some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would love to
have
: > their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We could date
: > them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave them
generic.
: > We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for vendors who
want
: > their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could get
route-book
: > printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the bottom of
: each
: > page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the memorabilia.
: > Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two years. If we
: > have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, but I'd keep
a
: > chunk for seed money for 2006.
: >
: > The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set a deadline
: > after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The problem is that
it
: > has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect that half
of
: > our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in Williams
Friday
: > night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday Morning. They will
: > have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they would be
: about
: > paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the run will
be
: > organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them participating with
: the
: > rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
: > deterred by a second cost for half a sector.
: >
: > See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the realities
of
: > our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that fee should
be
: > requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the people only
doing
: > one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).
: >
: > Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
: > Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
: > April 15 - July 4, 2004
: >
: > > -----Original Message-----
: > > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: > > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
: > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
: > > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: > >
: > > Gregory
: > >
: > > If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not
: > > have a sponsor,
: > > then the participants will have to pay (am I following you
: > > correctly?).
: > > Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and
: > > hence a Sector
: > > fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the
: > > door - still a
: > > form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but
: > > tougheer to
: > > predict numbers.
: > >
: > > I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a
: > > light for your
: > > area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, and how much
: > > national and international press we can get.  It's a good
: > > place to start
: > > though.
: > >
: > > Bob
: >
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: > www.jonat.org
: > _______________________________________________
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: > www.jonat.org
: > _______________________________________________
: >
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 17:07:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Fri Dec  5 17:07:01 2003
Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: <200312051653.hB5GrtGx017425@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: 

I must be in "half empty" mode today, but who pays the legal fees if some
nutbar does decide to sue?

[optimist says the cup is half full - pessimist says the cup is half empty -
engineer says the cup is too big ...]

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
Sent: December 5, 2003 10:54 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


Bob,

I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our butts covered. Not
that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would then have to
show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book.

Mark


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 17:17:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Brad Preiss)
Date: Fri Dec  5 17:17:01 2003
Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

 Who are "they" going sue? Are we a legal entity of any sort? Do we even
have an LLC established? I don't believe so - We are not a legal
organization such as say NASCAR or the IRL. We are a group of INDIVIDUALS
traveling to the same location at the same time using the Internet to
confirm the time and place.

  Not to compare us to Harley owners but they do this sort of thing ALL the
time - no such lawsuits have arisen that I know of and they are much more
established. The local Chapters sponsor 100's of thousands of motorcycles to
enter DC on Memorial day every year - nary one lawsuit.

 Just saying - I think we need to relax just a tad here...

Brad


-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:06 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


I must be in "half empty" mode today, but who pays the legal fees if some
nutbar does decide to sue?

[optimist says the cup is half full - pessimist says the cup is half empty -
engineer says the cup is too big ...]

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
Sent: December 5, 2003 10:54 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


Bob,

I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our butts covered. Not
that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would then have to
show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book.

Mark

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec  5 19:16:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Fri Dec  5 19:16:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees
In-Reply-To: <011f01c3bb5d$adaee9e0$77214518@GREG>
Message-ID: 

To expand on Gregory's thought ... as the intent is for each Sector to be as
autonomous as possible ... we could let each Sector decide on their own if
they want to charge a fixed fee, want to charge a per event fee, or want to
charge no fee at all.  Downside would be a bit of inconsistency on the tour
if some charge $0 and others charge $150, but it does take us back to first
principles ... thoughts?

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
Sent: December 5, 2003 12:29 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI


OK folks, having read and digested Mark's reality check, bringing us back to
the original idea, I think here in the Victoria / Vancouver sector we will
keep this thing lean and simple, no organised dinner (who wants to eat with
the same people at a fixed price in a fixed place when there are so many
good and interesting restaurants?).
    As far as we are concerned, the participants are adults, responsible for
their own arrangements and travel, but we will provide guidance and
recommendations (hotel accomodation rates have been arranged in both
Victoria and Vancouver; the group will be met arriving from Port Angeles;
the group will be in Vancouver for the Van Dusen All Brityish Car Show, with
a special area on the field set aside).
                                        Gregory


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 00:27:00 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Sat Dec  6 00:27:00 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
In-Reply-To: <00f201c3bb5b$8bcb9960$6501a8c0@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <200312060726.hB67QvGx012927@autox.team.net>

While I vote against a JONAT fee, preferring instead the funds be raised
through memorabilia sales and sponsorships, if we decide to have one, I
don't think the second sector should cost the registrant who is doing only
two, more than the first one. I think it should be $25 and $49.

Here's another aspect of the JONAT fee I'm not sure was considered. I can
see some SCs coming up with extravagant plans while other SCs keep it
simple. If I'm one of the simple ones, I don't want to see all the money I
raised going to a sector on a spending spree. It would be fair to me or the
people participating in my sector. Therefore, if we are going to collect a
JONAT fee, there should be a limit to what each sector can spend. I think
that a very large percentage, in the vicinity of 75%, should be earmarked
for the sectors each entrant has signed up for. For example, if I had 25
people sign up for my sector, and five of them signed up for my sector
alone, ten of them signed up for two sectors, five signed up for four
sectors, and five signed up for the whole route, my sector would have been
responsible for generating 25($s paid)x5(# paid) + 49($s paid)/2(split among
the # of sectors)x10(# paid) + 49/4x5 + 49/29(total # of sectors)x5 =
$439.70 of revenue. If I received 75% of that, it would be $329.78.
Sponsorships generated by me from within my area should likewise be split
75/25 between the sector and JONAT Central. Sponsorships obtained from
outside the my area should be split 37.5/37.5/25 between my sector, the
sector closest to the sponsor, and HQ. That would be the budget within which
I'd have to work. 

Another aspect for this to be as even-handed as possible, sectors should be
about the same length of time. A five-day sector has a lot more to spread
out over than than a two-day one. If anyone is taking more than one sector
and two or more are very short, we should consider combining them or
adjusting the calculations based on the time of the sector. A spreadsheet
listing the entrants and sponsors for each sector could have all these
calculations embedded.

If an event was scheduled at the hand-off point it would have to be with the
mutual agreement of both SCs and the costs would be split evenly unless
otherwise agreed to by the two SCs. 

Money earmarked for each SC could be used to print the route guide, create
mementos, subsidize the cost of a dinner, pay some or all of the entrance
fees into a place of interest, etc. A full accounting of funds expended
would have to be made to JONAT Central and any unused funds or profits
earned from the the sale of items bought with JONAT funds would have to be
returned. If the SC goes over budget, it comes out of the SC's pocket. 

That's my suggestion on how things should be divided up and run, if we have
a fee, which I oppose.

Mark - AZ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net 
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:14 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> Okay, on the fee thing ...
> 
> I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:
> 
> $25.00    -    Single Sector
> $55.00    -    Two of more Sectors
> 




From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 00:38:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Sat Dec  6 00:38:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Do we really need advances?
Message-ID: <200312060737.hB67b5Gx013215@autox.team.net>

I'm still not sure why SCs need advance money to print route books. Is
anyone planning a novel, a novella, or even a long short story to cover
their sector? Does anyone have any estimates of how long their route book
will be? I'm probably the most verbose of the bunch, and with a full
explanation of the landmarks along the way, I can see more than 25-30 pages
of stuff. That's a $1.50 per book (a little extra if you don't punch the
holes yourself). 

If we are encouraging fellow travelers to download the book and print it
themselves, I would expect 80% of the participants to print their own,
especially if it costs them $5.00 per book which I think is a fair price for
those who choose not to download it.

If there are advances for books, then we get into all kinds of accounting
hassles. The SCs will have to keep track of the money. They will have to
submit receipts. They will have to return the money for the copies of the
hardcopy route books sold to JONAT (since JONAT paid for them to be
printed). And we're going through all that for what? Take a worse case
scenario -- an SC has 100 cars sign up for their sector. 75% want books. The
book is 30 pages. It costs 5¢ per page to create the book. The SC would be
out of pocket $37.50 to print up the books. So we're going to complicate
accounting, have receipts and checks flying back and forth, so SCs don't
have to front $37.50?

My suggestion is that we leave it in the hands of the SC and charge $5.00
for each sector route book. If we do that and the SC sells those 25 books at
$5 each, he's pocketed $125 -- or $87.50 extra for his time and effort
planning the route and putting the book together. There's no need to advance
money, no need to track receipts, no need to request the proceeds be
returned, and the SC is rewarded in some small measure for his efforts.

Regarding other expenses, I'd suggest that if the SCs want to get fancy,
they should seek out sponsors to cover their expenses. A JONAT entry fee is
an easy source of money. Having to seek out sponsors imposes a bit of
frugality on the SCs, unless they are really good fund-raisers. In that
case, they'll have a great sector with lots of goodies. Since the sponsors
were paying to support JONAT, if there's anything left over, it should be
returned to JONAT.

Mark - AZ


>The monies are to be sent to the PO Box address on the web site and held in
>a JONAT account.  They will be doled out to each Sector as required to
cover
>(reimburse) the cost of printing up the Sector "book", Tour trophies,
>decals, etc., and/or any other expenses approved by the EC.  One thing to
>keep in mind with this proposal is the word "reimbursed".  As this is a
>voluntary organization, the repayment will have to come in a "as time
>permits" (within reason of course).  Maybe a once a month "bill
paying/check
>writing" activity.




From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 00:48:00 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Sat Dec  6 00:48:00 2003
Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200312060747.hB67lOGx013477@autox.team.net>

Actually they'd be suing JONAT which I believe is incorporated as a
non-profit. We have no assets worth messing with, so it would be a waste of
time. They could try to sue individuals, but unless one of the defendants
was totally negligent, it would be thrown out quickly. If one of us screwed
up royally, they would be on the hook, but the plaintiff would have to prove
there was an intent to cause harm or a complete lack of diligence in
planning and execution.

JONAT could help with the legal bills of an SC, but chances are they would
be named in any suit brought against an SC, so what little money they have
would be gone quick.

Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net 
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:06 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> I must be in "half empty" mode today, but who pays the legal 
> fees if some
> nutbar does decide to sue?
> 
> [optimist says the cup is half full - pessimist says the cup 
> is half empty -
> engineer says the cup is too big ...]
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 5, 2003 10:54 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our 
> butts covered. Not
> that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would 
> then have to
> show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
> exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book.
> 
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
> 



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 00:58:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Sat Dec  6 00:58:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200312060757.hB67vNGx013682@autox.team.net>

Bob,

There's no reason we can't set a maximum for the sector fee. Given a choice,
because of the $44/$49 for the Fun Run, I won't be charging a fee and I'd
argue that if anyone does, it should be low -- no more than $20. If a fee is
charged, being a JONAT fee, I think the SC should track his expenses and any
excess should be returned to JONAT. 

Mark - AZ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net 
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:16 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: [JONAT] Fees
> 
> To expand on Gregory's thought ... as the intent is for each 
> Sector to be as
> autonomous as possible ... we could let each Sector decide on 
> their own if
> they want to charge a fixed fee, want to charge a per event 
> fee, or want to
> charge no fee at all.  Downside would be a bit of 
> inconsistency on the tour
> if some charge $0 and others charge $150, but it does take us 
> back to first
> principles ... thoughts?
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
> Sent: December 5, 2003 12:29 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> 
> OK folks, having read and digested Mark's reality check, 
> bringing us back to
> the original idea, I think here in the Victoria / Vancouver 
> sector we will
> keep this thing lean and simple, no organised dinner (who 
> wants to eat with
> the same people at a fixed price in a fixed place when there 
> are so many
> good and interesting restaurants?).
>     As far as we are concerned, the participants are adults, 
> responsible for
> their own arrangements and travel, but we will provide guidance and
> recommendations (hotel accomodation rates have been arranged in both
> Victoria and Vancouver; the group will be met arriving from 
> Port Angeles;
> the group will be in Vancouver for the Van Dusen All Brityish 
> Car Show, with
> a special area on the field set aside).
>                                         Gregory
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 07:46:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Sat Dec  6 07:46:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees
In-Reply-To: <200312060757.hB67vNGx013682@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: 

Mark

I've read your last few posts with interest as you've got me thinking (and
that hurts!), and am more and more coming around to conclusion that the more
complex we make this fees thing, the more hassles we will have figuring
things out.

How about the following for basic principles:

- each Sector to fund it's own activities and JONAT central to fund it's own
activities. - this will minimize the cross accounting which could make
things complicated.  The only cross accounting would be where individuals
sign up for the Tour on-site rather than pre-register.

- minimum registration fee per Sector is $10 (provides a free route book
with registration) with actual fee set by the Sector - theoretically then if
a person is doing 7 sectors it is only $70.  No magic in the $10, could be
$5 or $15 or whatever, but a low number would be the key.  We should also
set a maximum of say $75 (or whatever) - the difference being that the
higher value would include events (for example in your case Mark the
registration fee could include the Route 66 Tour registration - I use this
only as an example and don't mean to suggest this is what you do).

- all proceeds in excess of costs go to a charity (i.e. non profit).

The above are only my thoughts and I through them out for discussion
(comments, flames, or whatever), and my thoughts as of this hour - and are
bound to change depending upon where the discussion goes from here.

I've got to keep telling myself to keep it simple ...

Bob England


-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
Sent: December 6, 2003 1:57 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] Fees


Bob,

There's no reason we can't set a maximum for the sector fee. Given a choice,
because of the $44/$49 for the Fun Run, I won't be charging a fee and I'd
argue that if anyone does, it should be low -- no more than $20. If a fee is
charged, being a JONAT fee, I think the SC should track his expenses and any
excess should be returned to JONAT.

Mark - AZ



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 07:51:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Sat Dec  6 07:51:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: INSURANCE
In-Reply-To: <200312060747.hB67lOGx013477@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: 

Mark

We are not incorporated, and the assets worth messing with are personal
assets.  JONAT cannot help with legal bills as there would be no money to
help with - back to our personal assets.  Unless someone can say "you won't
be sued", I think we should look at some sort of insurance or 100% foolproof
disclaimer.  Note that in no way am I an expert in this field, and am only
speaking as a frightened-of-litigation lay person - in fact I hope I am
wrong but it is an avenue we need to pursue.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
Sent: December 6, 2003 1:47 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


Actually they'd be suing JONAT which I believe is incorporated as a
non-profit. We have no assets worth messing with, so it would be a waste of
time. They could try to sue individuals, but unless one of the defendants
was totally negligent, it would be thrown out quickly. If one of us screwed
up royally, they would be on the hook, but the plaintiff would have to prove
there was an intent to cause harm or a complete lack of diligence in
planning and execution.

JONAT could help with the legal bills of an SC, but chances are they would
be named in any suit brought against an SC, so what little money they have
would be gone quick.

Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:06 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
> I must be in "half empty" mode today, but who pays the legal
> fees if some
> nutbar does decide to sue?
>
> [optimist says the cup is half full - pessimist says the cup
> is half empty -
> engineer says the cup is too big ...]
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 5, 2003 10:54 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our
> butts covered. Not
> that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would
> then have to
> show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
> exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>


_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 09:12:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jagboard Administrator)
Date: Sat Dec  6 09:12:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: INSURANCE
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Certainly, there is a lawyer among our rabble who can hammer out a thorough
enough disclaimer.  If all we are providing is a "suggested course" than the
individuals hold very little over which to sue or need insurance.  JONAT as
an entity might want some basic umbrella liability policy which, given the
nature of the organization, should not be expensive at all.

Trey


On 12/6/03 8:50 AM, "Bob"  wrote:

> We are not incorporated, and the assets worth messing with are personal
> assets.  JONAT cannot help with legal bills as there would be no money to
> help with - back to our personal assets.  Unless someone can say "you won't
> be sued", I think we should look at some sort of insurance or 100% foolproof
> disclaimer.  Note that in no way am I an expert in this field, and am only
> speaking as a frightened-of-litigation lay person - in fact I hope I am
> wrong but it is an avenue we need to pursue.
> 
> Bob


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 09:24:00 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jagboard Administrator)
Date: Sat Dec  6 09:24:00 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Sorry if I am late getting into this but I was out of town on business last
week.

My thoughts on the finance issues are torn.  On the one hand, keeping things
simple is easy and cheap.  Easy is good.

On the other hand, it allows for little opportunity for we SC's to plan a
group event as events cost money.  I disagree with the premise that a "meet
and greet" will grow tiresome as the drivers will continue to see the same
folks.  After all, entrants are likely to join and/or drop out at any point
along the route leaving the possibility of meeting a new face or two at any
scheduled stop.  But this approach does complicate matters.

Finally, for the sake of making our charitable work consistent, a single
charity should be selected prior to starting public announcements.  This
makes getting free TV and news coverage much easier.

My 2 pence,

Trey

On 12/6/03 8:45 AM, "Bob"  wrote:

> I've read your last few posts with interest as you've got me thinking (and
> that hurts!), and am more and more coming around to conclusion that the more
> complex we make this fees thing, the more hassles we will have figuring
> things out.
> 
> How about the following for basic principles:
> 
> - each Sector to fund it's own activities and JONAT central to fund it's own
> activities. - this will minimize the cross accounting which could make
> things complicated.  The only cross accounting would be where individuals
> sign up for the Tour on-site rather than pre-register.
> 
> - minimum registration fee per Sector is $10 (provides a free route book
> with registration) with actual fee set by the Sector - theoretically then if
> a person is doing 7 sectors it is only $70.  No magic in the $10, could be
> $5 or $15 or whatever, but a low number would be the key.  We should also
> set a maximum of say $75 (or whatever) - the difference being that the
> higher value would include events (for example in your case Mark the
> registration fee could include the Route 66 Tour registration - I use this
> only as an example and don't mean to suggest this is what you do).
> 
> - all proceeds in excess of costs go to a charity (i.e. non profit).
> 
> The above are only my thoughts and I through them out for discussion
> (comments, flames, or whatever), and my thoughts as of this hour - and are
> bound to change depending upon where the discussion goes from here.
> 
> I've got to keep telling myself to keep it simple ...
> 
> Bob England


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 11:03:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Sat Dec  6 11:03:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
References: <200312060726.hB67QvGx012927@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <002301c3bc23$1bb638b0$77214518@GREG>

Mark:
    You clever guy! The complications of this formula underline exactlly why
there should be no fee, and why this tour should not be over-organised. The
thought of dealing with this has me ready to run for the hills (in my
fastest Jaguar).
                                            Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:26 PM
Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.


: While I vote against a JONAT fee, preferring instead the funds be raised
: through memorabilia sales and sponsorships, if we decide to have one, I
: don't think the second sector should cost the registrant who is doing only
: two, more than the first one. I think it should be $25 and $49.
:
: Here's another aspect of the JONAT fee I'm not sure was considered. I can
: see some SCs coming up with extravagant plans while other SCs keep it
: simple. If I'm one of the simple ones, I don't want to see all the money I
: raised going to a sector on a spending spree. It would be fair to me or
the
: people participating in my sector. Therefore, if we are going to collect a
: JONAT fee, there should be a limit to what each sector can spend. I think
: that a very large percentage, in the vicinity of 75%, should be earmarked
: for the sectors each entrant has signed up for. For example, if I had 25
: people sign up for my sector, and five of them signed up for my sector
: alone, ten of them signed up for two sectors, five signed up for four
: sectors, and five signed up for the whole route, my sector would have been
: responsible for generating 25($s paid)x5(# paid) + 49($s paid)/2(split
among
: the # of sectors)x10(# paid) + 49/4x5 + 49/29(total # of sectors)x5 =
: $439.70 of revenue. If I received 75% of that, it would be $329.78.
: Sponsorships generated by me from within my area should likewise be split
: 75/25 between the sector and JONAT Central. Sponsorships obtained from
: outside the my area should be split 37.5/37.5/25 between my sector, the
: sector closest to the sponsor, and HQ. That would be the budget within
which
: I'd have to work.
:
: Another aspect for this to be as even-handed as possible, sectors should
be
: about the same length of time. A five-day sector has a lot more to spread
: out over than than a two-day one. If anyone is taking more than one sector
: and two or more are very short, we should consider combining them or
: adjusting the calculations based on the time of the sector. A spreadsheet
: listing the entrants and sponsors for each sector could have all these
: calculations embedded.
:
: If an event was scheduled at the hand-off point it would have to be with
the
: mutual agreement of both SCs and the costs would be split evenly unless
: otherwise agreed to by the two SCs.
:
: Money earmarked for each SC could be used to print the route guide, create
: mementos, subsidize the cost of a dinner, pay some or all of the entrance
: fees into a place of interest, etc. A full accounting of funds expended
: would have to be made to JONAT Central and any unused funds or profits
: earned from the the sale of items bought with JONAT funds would have to be
: returned. If the SC goes over budget, it comes out of the SC's pocket.
:
: That's my suggestion on how things should be divided up and run, if we
have
: a fee, which I oppose.
:
: Mark - AZ
:
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
: > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:14 AM
: > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: > Okay, on the fee thing ...
: >
: > I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:
: >
: > $25.00    -    Single Sector
: > $55.00    -    Two of more Sectors
: >
: 
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 11:16:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Sat Dec  6 11:16:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] RE: INSURANCE
References: 
Message-ID: <003c01c3bc24$f0a0cb20$77214518@GREG>

Bob: another reason to keep it simple: a 100% disclaimer so the participant
acknowledges that he is *voluntarily* just one of a group of people using
the public roads at approximately the same time as others, and that he
accepts ALL risks associated with such an activity. Period. And no fees.
                                Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 6:50 AM
Subject: [JONAT] RE: INSURANCE


: Mark
:
: We are not incorporated, and the assets worth messing with are personal
: assets.  JONAT cannot help with legal bills as there would be no money to
: help with - back to our personal assets.  Unless someone can say "you
won't
: be sued", I think we should look at some sort of insurance or 100%
foolproof
: disclaimer.  Note that in no way am I an expert in this field, and am only
: speaking as a frightened-of-litigation lay person - in fact I hope I am
: wrong but it is an avenue we need to pursue.
:
: Bob
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
: Sent: December 6, 2003 1:47 AM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: RE: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
:
:
: Actually they'd be suing JONAT which I believe is incorporated as a
: non-profit. We have no assets worth messing with, so it would be a waste
of
: time. They could try to sue individuals, but unless one of the defendants
: was totally negligent, it would be thrown out quickly. If one of us
screwed
: up royally, they would be on the hook, but the plaintiff would have to
prove
: there was an intent to cause harm or a complete lack of diligence in
: planning and execution.
:
: JONAT could help with the legal bills of an SC, but chances are they would
: be named in any suit brought against an SC, so what little money they have
: would be gone quick.
:
: Mark
:
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
: > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:06 PM
: > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: > I must be in "half empty" mode today, but who pays the legal
: > fees if some
: > nutbar does decide to sue?
: >
: > [optimist says the cup is half full - pessimist says the cup
: > is half empty -
: > engineer says the cup is too big ...]
: >
: > Bob
: >
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: > Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
: > Sent: December 5, 2003 10:54 AM
: > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: >
: > Bob,
: >
: > I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our
: > butts covered. Not
: > that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would
: > then have to
: > show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
: > exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book.
: >
: > Mark
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: > www.jonat.org
: > _______________________________________________
: >
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec  6 17:59:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Barry La Pointe)
Date: Sat Dec  6 17:59:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
References: <200312060726.hB67QvGx012927@autox.team.net> <002301c3bc23$1bb638b0$77214518@GREG>
Message-ID: <000701c3bc5d$428070c0$5b6451cf@SEANIX4MZ1CM44>

Greg & Mark, I must be a man of simple needs, (as long as one of them is a
V12 E Type). Hasn't anyone heard of "User Pay"? I will be keeping my sector
as simple as possible and applying the policy of "User Pay". This way you
can do what you want, eat what and where you want and stay where you can
afford. In addition to laying out the main route and an alternate thru my
sector I will also be supplying names and rates of the local Hotels that
respond, with one of them being the departure point as well as restaurants
in the area. I will also be setting up pre-arranged "Wine Tasting" at a
couple of the cottage wineries on the trip from Penticton to Vernon as that
is a short 100 KM trip. The tasting is free but you will pay for any
purchases while there.I would hope that everyone insures both themselves and
their vehicles for any and all possible "illnesses". I intend to have myself
covered while in the USA. I know that we would like to cover any and all
possibilities but this talk of liability and suing is starting to rattle and
unnerve me.
----- Original Message ----- Barry La Pointe
Okanagan Sector Coordinator
Jaguar North American Tour
1972 "E Type" V12
www.jonat.org
From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.


> Mark:
>     You clever guy! The complications of this formula underline exactlly
why
> there should be no fee, and why this tour should not be over-organised.
The
> thought of dealing with this has me ready to run for the hills (in my
> fastest Jaguar).
>                                             Gregory
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Stephenson" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:26 PM
> Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
>
>
> : While I vote against a JONAT fee, preferring instead the funds be raised
> : through memorabilia sales and sponsorships, if we decide to have one, I
> : don't think the second sector should cost the registrant who is doing
only
> : two, more than the first one. I think it should be $25 and $49.
> :
> : Here's another aspect of the JONAT fee I'm not sure was considered. I
can
> : see some SCs coming up with extravagant plans while other SCs keep it
> : simple. If I'm one of the simple ones, I don't want to see all the money
I
> : raised going to a sector on a spending spree. It would be fair to me or
> the
> : people participating in my sector. Therefore, if we are going to collect
a
> : JONAT fee, there should be a limit to what each sector can spend. I
think
> : that a very large percentage, in the vicinity of 75%, should be
earmarked
> : for the sectors each entrant has signed up for. For example, if I had 25
> : people sign up for my sector, and five of them signed up for my sector
> : alone, ten of them signed up for two sectors, five signed up for four
> : sectors, and five signed up for the whole route, my sector would have
been
> : responsible for generating 25($s paid)x5(# paid) + 49($s paid)/2(split
> among
> : the # of sectors)x10(# paid) + 49/4x5 + 49/29(total # of sectors)x5 =
> : $439.70 of revenue. If I received 75% of that, it would be $329.78.
> : Sponsorships generated by me from within my area should likewise be
split
> : 75/25 between the sector and JONAT Central. Sponsorships obtained from
> : outside the my area should be split 37.5/37.5/25 between my sector, the
> : sector closest to the sponsor, and HQ. That would be the budget within
> which
> : I'd have to work.
> :
> : Another aspect for this to be as even-handed as possible, sectors should
> be
> : about the same length of time. A five-day sector has a lot more to
spread
> : out over than than a two-day one. If anyone is taking more than one
sector
> : and two or more are very short, we should consider combining them or
> : adjusting the calculations based on the time of the sector. A
spreadsheet
> : listing the entrants and sponsors for each sector could have all these
> : calculations embedded.
> :
> : If an event was scheduled at the hand-off point it would have to be with
> the
> : mutual agreement of both SCs and the costs would be split evenly unless
> : otherwise agreed to by the two SCs.
> :
> : Money earmarked for each SC could be used to print the route guide,
create
> : mementos, subsidize the cost of a dinner, pay some or all of the
entrance
> : fees into a place of interest, etc. A full accounting of funds expended
> : would have to be made to JONAT Central and any unused funds or profits
> : earned from the the sale of items bought with JONAT funds would have to
be
> : returned. If the SC goes over budget, it comes out of the SC's pocket.
> :
> : That's my suggestion on how things should be divided up and run, if we
> have
> : a fee, which I oppose.
> :
> : Mark - AZ
> :
> : > -----Original Message-----
> : > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> : > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
> : > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:14 AM
> : > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> : > Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> : >
> : > Okay, on the fee thing ...
> : >
> : > I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:
> : >
> : > $25.00    -    Single Sector
> : > $55.00    -    Two of more Sectors
> : >
> : 
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> : REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> : www.jonat.org
> : _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sun Dec  7 02:21:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Anthony W. (Tony) Parran)
Date: Sun Dec  7 02:21:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
In-Reply-To: <000701c3bc5d$428070c0$5b6451cf@SEANIX4MZ1CM44>
Message-ID: 

I'm not a smoker, but does anyone have a cigarette?  This is getting scary.

Tony



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Barry La Pointe
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 4:59 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.

Greg & Mark, I must be a man of simple needs, (as long as one of them is a
V12 E Type). Hasn't anyone heard of "User Pay"? I will be keeping my sector
as simple as possible and applying the policy of "User Pay". This way you
can do what you want, eat what and where you want and stay where you can
afford. In addition to laying out the main route and an alternate thru my
sector I will also be supplying names and rates of the local Hotels that
respond, with one of them being the departure point as well as restaurants
in the area. I will also be setting up pre-arranged "Wine Tasting" at a
couple of the cottage wineries on the trip from Penticton to Vernon as that
is a short 100 KM trip. The tasting is free but you will pay for any
purchases while there.I would hope that everyone insures both themselves and
their vehicles for any and all possible "illnesses". I intend to have myself
covered while in the USA. I know that we would like to cover any and all
possibilities but this talk of liability and suing is starting to rattle and
unnerve me.
----- Original Message ----- Barry La Pointe
Okanagan Sector Coordinator
Jaguar North American Tour
1972 "E Type" V12
www.jonat.org
From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.


> Mark:
>     You clever guy! The complications of this formula underline exactlly
why
> there should be no fee, and why this tour should not be over-organised.
The
> thought of dealing with this has me ready to run for the hills (in my
> fastest Jaguar).
>                                             Gregory
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Stephenson" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:26 PM
> Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
>
>
> : While I vote against a JONAT fee, preferring instead the funds be raised
> : through memorabilia sales and sponsorships, if we decide to have one, I
> : don't think the second sector should cost the registrant who is doing
only
> : two, more than the first one. I think it should be $25 and $49.
> :
> : Here's another aspect of the JONAT fee I'm not sure was considered. I
can
> : see some SCs coming up with extravagant plans while other SCs keep it
> : simple. If I'm one of the simple ones, I don't want to see all the money
I
> : raised going to a sector on a spending spree. It would be fair to me or
> the
> : people participating in my sector. Therefore, if we are going to collect
a
> : JONAT fee, there should be a limit to what each sector can spend. I
think
> : that a very large percentage, in the vicinity of 75%, should be
earmarked
> : for the sectors each entrant has signed up for. For example, if I had 25
> : people sign up for my sector, and five of them signed up for my sector
> : alone, ten of them signed up for two sectors, five signed up for four
> : sectors, and five signed up for the whole route, my sector would have
been
> : responsible for generating 25($s paid)x5(# paid) + 49($s paid)/2(split
> among
> : the # of sectors)x10(# paid) + 49/4x5 + 49/29(total # of sectors)x5 =
> : $439.70 of revenue. If I received 75% of that, it would be $329.78.
> : Sponsorships generated by me from within my area should likewise be
split
> : 75/25 between the sector and JONAT Central. Sponsorships obtained from
> : outside the my area should be split 37.5/37.5/25 between my sector, the
> : sector closest to the sponsor, and HQ. That would be the budget within
> which
> : I'd have to work.
> :
> : Another aspect for this to be as even-handed as possible, sectors should
> be
> : about the same length of time. A five-day sector has a lot more to
spread
> : out over than than a two-day one. If anyone is taking more than one
sector
> : and two or more are very short, we should consider combining them or
> : adjusting the calculations based on the time of the sector. A
spreadsheet
> : listing the entrants and sponsors for each sector could have all these
> : calculations embedded.
> :
> : If an event was scheduled at the hand-off point it would have to be with
> the
> : mutual agreement of both SCs and the costs would be split evenly unless
> : otherwise agreed to by the two SCs.
> :
> : Money earmarked for each SC could be used to print the route guide,
create
> : mementos, subsidize the cost of a dinner, pay some or all of the
entrance
> : fees into a place of interest, etc. A full accounting of funds expended
> : would have to be made to JONAT Central and any unused funds or profits
> : earned from the the sale of items bought with JONAT funds would have to
be
> : returned. If the SC goes over budget, it comes out of the SC's pocket.
> :
> : That's my suggestion on how things should be divided up and run, if we
> have
> : a fee, which I oppose.
> :
> : Mark - AZ
> :
> : > -----Original Message-----
> : > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> : > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
> : > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:14 AM
> : > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> : > Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> : >
> : > Okay, on the fee thing ...
> : >
> : > I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:
> : >
> : > $25.00    -    Single Sector
> : > $55.00    -    Two of more Sectors
> : >
> : 
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> : REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> : www.jonat.org
> : _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>


_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sun Dec  7 10:33:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Sun Dec  7 10:33:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
References: <200312060726.hB67QvGx012927@autox.team.net>
 <002301c3bc23$1bb638b0$77214518@GREG>
 <000701c3bc5d$428070c0$5b6451cf@SEANIX4MZ1CM44>
Message-ID: <000f01c3bce7$7c06bef0$77214518@GREG>

Barry:  We will be following this procedure as well. Participants will be
responsible for themselves in everyway, except for finding their way around,
and finding resources. We will help with those things. And I am looking
forward to the wine tastings. We may set up something like that here on the
Island as well.
                                        Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry La Pointe" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.


: Greg & Mark, I must be a man of simple needs, (as long as one of them is a
: V12 E Type). Hasn't anyone heard of "User Pay"? I will be keeping my
sector
: as simple as possible and applying the policy of "User Pay". This way you
: can do what you want, eat what and where you want and stay where you can
: afford. In addition to laying out the main route and an alternate thru my
: sector I will also be supplying names and rates of the local Hotels that
: respond, with one of them being the departure point as well as restaurants
: in the area. I will also be setting up pre-arranged "Wine Tasting" at a
: couple of the cottage wineries on the trip from Penticton to Vernon as
that
: is a short 100 KM trip. The tasting is free but you will pay for any
: purchases while there.I would hope that everyone insures both themselves
and
: their vehicles for any and all possible "illnesses". I intend to have
myself
: covered while in the USA. I know that we would like to cover any and all
: possibilities but this talk of liability and suing is starting to rattle
and
: unnerve me.
: ----- Original Message ----- Barry La Pointe
: Okanagan Sector Coordinator
: Jaguar North American Tour
: 1972 "E Type" V12
: www.jonat.org
: From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 
: To: 
: Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:02 AM
: Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
:
:
: > Mark:
: >     You clever guy! The complications of this formula underline exactlly
: why
: > there should be no fee, and why this tour should not be over-organised.
: The
: > thought of dealing with this has me ready to run for the hills (in my
: > fastest Jaguar).
: >                                             Gregory
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Mark Stephenson" 
: > To: 
: > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:26 PM
: > Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
: >
: >
: > : While I vote against a JONAT fee, preferring instead the funds be
raised
: > : through memorabilia sales and sponsorships, if we decide to have one,
I
: > : don't think the second sector should cost the registrant who is doing
: only
: > : two, more than the first one. I think it should be $25 and $49.
: > :
: > : Here's another aspect of the JONAT fee I'm not sure was considered. I
: can
: > : see some SCs coming up with extravagant plans while other SCs keep it
: > : simple. If I'm one of the simple ones, I don't want to see all the
money
: I
: > : raised going to a sector on a spending spree. It would be fair to me
or
: > the
: > : people participating in my sector. Therefore, if we are going to
collect
: a
: > : JONAT fee, there should be a limit to what each sector can spend. I
: think
: > : that a very large percentage, in the vicinity of 75%, should be
: earmarked
: > : for the sectors each entrant has signed up for. For example, if I had
25
: > : people sign up for my sector, and five of them signed up for my sector
: > : alone, ten of them signed up for two sectors, five signed up for four
: > : sectors, and five signed up for the whole route, my sector would have
: been
: > : responsible for generating 25($s paid)x5(# paid) + 49($s paid)/2(split
: > among
: > : the # of sectors)x10(# paid) + 49/4x5 + 49/29(total # of sectors)x5 =
: > : $439.70 of revenue. If I received 75% of that, it would be $329.78.
: > : Sponsorships generated by me from within my area should likewise be
: split
: > : 75/25 between the sector and JONAT Central. Sponsorships obtained from
: > : outside the my area should be split 37.5/37.5/25 between my sector,
the
: > : sector closest to the sponsor, and HQ. That would be the budget within
: > which
: > : I'd have to work.
: > :
: > : Another aspect for this to be as even-handed as possible, sectors
should
: > be
: > : about the same length of time. A five-day sector has a lot more to
: spread
: > : out over than than a two-day one. If anyone is taking more than one
: sector
: > : and two or more are very short, we should consider combining them or
: > : adjusting the calculations based on the time of the sector. A
: spreadsheet
: > : listing the entrants and sponsors for each sector could have all these
: > : calculations embedded.
: > :
: > : If an event was scheduled at the hand-off point it would have to be
with
: > the
: > : mutual agreement of both SCs and the costs would be split evenly
unless
: > : otherwise agreed to by the two SCs.
: > :
: > : Money earmarked for each SC could be used to print the route guide,
: create
: > : mementos, subsidize the cost of a dinner, pay some or all of the
: entrance
: > : fees into a place of interest, etc. A full accounting of funds
expended
: > : would have to be made to JONAT Central and any unused funds or profits
: > : earned from the the sale of items bought with JONAT funds would have
to
: be
: > : returned. If the SC goes over budget, it comes out of the SC's pocket.
: > :
: > : That's my suggestion on how things should be divided up and run, if we
: > have
: > : a fee, which I oppose.
: > :
: > : Mark - AZ
: > :
: > : > -----Original Message-----
: > : > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
: > : > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
: > : > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:14 AM
: > : > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > : > Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: > : >
: > : > Okay, on the fee thing ...
: > : >
: > : > I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:
: > : >
: > : > $25.00    -    Single Sector
: > : > $55.00    -    Two of more Sectors
: > : >
: > : 
: > :
: > :
: > : _______________________________________________
: > : JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: > : REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: > : www.jonat.org
: > : _______________________________________________
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: > www.jonat.org
: > _______________________________________________
: >
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sun Dec  7 20:59:00 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Sun Dec  7 20:59:00 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
Message-ID: 

Tony and Barry,

I wouldn't get too concerned. It's just something that you always have to take into account when in the U.S. and probably elsewhere. For example, if I had in my route book that there's a long stretch of road that you can haul a** on and that road ended up abruptly terminating blindly at the rim of the Grand Canyon and someone went airborne then bounced several thousand feet toward the bottom of the Canyon, there would be some liability there. Certainly they would come after me civilly for gross negligence and  perhaps even criminally for manslaughter. JONAT would also be a target.

By the same token, if JONAT promised something, like roadside assistance (which I know we aren't), and someone ended up stranded along the side of the road in Death Valley for hours, they might have a case against JONAT. It would be doubtful that they would have a case against the individual SC.

I like Gregory's suggestion that we just define it as a group of individuals deciding to take the same roads at the same time. There might be a few more things we could add to further define our lack of liability, but that pretty much sets the ground rules.

However, I do think we should be incorporated as a non-profit. It's not that complicated and it actually simplifies things regarding taxes, accounting, and liability. 

First and foremost, although the chances of someone taking legal action against JONAT or its SC's is negligible, there's always the chance that some sue-happy idiot will join us. An individual can name JONAT and all the SCs in a suit, which they generally do. However, with the corporate shield, it's an easy and relatively inexpensive matter to show your actions were taken as a member of the corporation not as an individual. That lets you off the hook (unless, as I said earlier, you do something so stupid that there is no way it would have been sanctioned by the corporation). Then the only entity left to sue is JONAT, which wouldn't have sufficient assets to pay for a lawyer much less pay damages. JONAT would declare bankruptcy. Considering that the chances of anyone recovering anything from any legal action are nil, that's an almost foolproof (and I use that term literally) deterrent. Unincorporated, it's our assets (house, car, bank accounts, retirement savings, etc.) on the line. That group that runs the two-day $50 event in Arizona that averaged 160 cars the last two years is incorporated.

Second, no one can really contract with JONAT if it's not a legal entity. A release of liability for participants with JONAT would be meaningless if there's no official JONAT.

Third is the tax aspect. If someone starts taking in a bunch of registration fees and running them through their personal account and they are audited, in the immortal words of Ricky Ricardo, "You are goin' to have a lot of 'splainin' to do." You'll probably resolve it, but you want to talk about complexity, you're going to have to find every JONAT receipt and justify it as a JONAT expense.

Fourth, with the corp, you'll be able to open a JONAT checking account, which will make accounting a whole lot easier. You'll know that all the JONAT checks were for JONAT expenses rather than having to figure out which ones from your own checkbook were JONAT. If you want to give a couple other high ranking people signing rights to the account, you wouldn't have accounting scattered across a bunch of personal accounts, and with checks they could buy necessities without having to spend their own money and be reimbursed. 

Setting up the corporation should be relatively painless. I'm not sure who would be considered the head honcho, but whoever it is, should be able to get a copy, or perhaps even a computer file, of their local JCNA club's incorporation papers. It should be a non-profit, which is what we would want. Your state usually has instructions on how to incorporate, the requirements for officers and meetings, and the fees which are usually only a couple hundred dollars. The club papers should make an excellent boilerplate, just requiring that you change the club references to "Jaguar Owners North America Tour" hereinafter known as "JONAT" and the names to the names of our principals. There may be come complexities about electing officers which we could simplify or change so that the SCs vote for officers, but beyond that, it should be almost cut and paste. 

Just some suggestions,

Mark - AZ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net 
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Anthony W. 
> (Tony) Parran
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 2:31 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
> 
> I'm not a smoker, but does anyone have a cigarette?  This is 
> getting scary.
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Barry La Pointe
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 4:59 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
> 
> Greg & Mark, I must be a man of simple needs, (as long as one 
> of them is a
> V12 E Type). Hasn't anyone heard of "User Pay"? I will be 
> keeping my sector
> as simple as possible and applying the policy of "User Pay". 
> This way you
> can do what you want, eat what and where you want and stay 
> where you can
> afford. In addition to laying out the main route and an 
> alternate thru my
> sector I will also be supplying names and rates of the local 
> Hotels that
> respond, with one of them being the departure point as well 
> as restaurants
> in the area. I will also be setting up pre-arranged "Wine 
> Tasting" at a
> couple of the cottage wineries on the trip from Penticton to 
> Vernon as that
> is a short 100 KM trip. The tasting is free but you will pay for any
> purchases while there.I would hope that everyone insures both 
> themselves and
> their vehicles for any and all possible "illnesses". I intend 
> to have myself
> covered while in the USA. I know that we would like to cover 
> any and all
> possibilities but this talk of liability and suing is 
> starting to rattle and
> unnerve me.
> ----- Original Message ----- Barry La Pointe
> Okanagan Sector Coordinator
> Jaguar North American Tour
> 1972 "E Type" V12
> www.jonat.org
> From: "Dr Gregory Andrachuk" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
> 
> 
> > Mark:
> >     You clever guy! The complications of this formula 
> underline exactlly
> why
> > there should be no fee, and why this tour should not be 
> over-organised.
> The
> > thought of dealing with this has me ready to run for the 
> hills (in my
> > fastest Jaguar).
> >                                             Gregory
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Stephenson" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:26 PM
> > Subject: [JONAT] Fees and splitting them up.
> >
> >
> > : While I vote against a JONAT fee, preferring instead the 
> funds be raised
> > : through memorabilia sales and sponsorships, if we decide 
> to have one, I
> > : don't think the second sector should cost the registrant 
> who is doing
> only
> > : two, more than the first one. I think it should be $25 and $49.
> > :
> > : Here's another aspect of the JONAT fee I'm not sure was 
> considered. I
> can
> > : see some SCs coming up with extravagant plans while other 
> SCs keep it
> > : simple. If I'm one of the simple ones, I don't want to 
> see all the money
> I
> > : raised going to a sector on a spending spree. It would be 
> fair to me or
> > the
> > : people participating in my sector. Therefore, if we are 
> going to collect
> a
> > : JONAT fee, there should be a limit to what each sector 
> can spend. I
> think
> > : that a very large percentage, in the vicinity of 75%, should be
> earmarked
> > : for the sectors each entrant has signed up for. For 
> example, if I had 25
> > : people sign up for my sector, and five of them signed up 
> for my sector
> > : alone, ten of them signed up for two sectors, five signed 
> up for four
> > : sectors, and five signed up for the whole route, my 
> sector would have
> been
> > : responsible for generating 25($s paid)x5(# paid) + 49($s 
> paid)/2(split
> > among
> > : the # of sectors)x10(# paid) + 49/4x5 + 49/29(total # of 
> sectors)x5 =
> > : $439.70 of revenue. If I received 75% of that, it would 
> be $329.78.
> > : Sponsorships generated by me from within my area should 
> likewise be
> split
> > : 75/25 between the sector and JONAT Central. Sponsorships 
> obtained from
> > : outside the my area should be split 37.5/37.5/25 between 
> my sector, the
> > : sector closest to the sponsor, and HQ. That would be the 
> budget within
> > which
> > : I'd have to work.
> > :
> > : Another aspect for this to be as even-handed as possible, 
> sectors should
> > be
> > : about the same length of time. A five-day sector has a lot more to
> spread
> > : out over than than a two-day one. If anyone is taking 
> more than one
> sector
> > : and two or more are very short, we should consider 
> combining them or
> > : adjusting the calculations based on the time of the sector. A
> spreadsheet
> > : listing the entrants and sponsors for each sector could 
> have all these
> > : calculations embedded.
> > :
> > : If an event was scheduled at the hand-off point it would 
> have to be with
> > the
> > : mutual agreement of both SCs and the costs would be split 
> evenly unless
> > : otherwise agreed to by the two SCs.
> > :
> > : Money earmarked for each SC could be used to print the 
> route guide,
> create
> > : mementos, subsidize the cost of a dinner, pay some or all of the
> entrance
> > : fees into a place of interest, etc. A full accounting of 
> funds expended
> > : would have to be made to JONAT Central and any unused 
> funds or profits
> > : earned from the the sale of items bought with JONAT funds 
> would have to
> be
> > : returned. If the SC goes over budget, it comes out of the 
> SC's pocket.
> > :
> > : That's my suggestion on how things should be divided up 
> and run, if we
> > have
> > : a fee, which I oppose.
> > :
> > : Mark - AZ
> > :
> > : > -----Original Message-----
> > : > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> > : > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
> > : > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:14 AM
> > : > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > : > Subject: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> > : >
> > : > Okay, on the fee thing ...
> > : >
> > : > I put forward for a vote at this point the following fees:
> > : >
> > : > $25.00    -    Single Sector
> > : > $55.00    -    Two of more Sectors
> > : >
> > : 
> > :
> > :
> > : _______________________________________________
> > : JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> > : REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> > : www.jonat.org
> > : _______________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> > www.jonat.org
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sun Dec  7 23:07:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (JONAT Webmaster)
Date: Sun Dec  7 23:07:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] 100 Users Registered
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <001d01c3bd51$3eda4b40$7701a8c0@c350735a>

We crossed the 100 mark today!
First Name: Tim
Last Name : Morris
Nick Name : Sidewinder
country   : USA
user type : Driving in the tour
user id   : 100


From jonat@autox.team.net  Mon Dec  8 05:56:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mike O'Brien)
Date: Mon Dec  8 05:56:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] incorporation
Message-ID: <3FD47402.6040100@jonat.org>

If there is wisdom in incorporating don't forget that it has to be done 
in both Canada and the USA

-- 
Mike O'Brien
Ottawa Sector Coordinator
Jaguar Owner's North America Tour (Jonat)
http://www.jonat.org 




From jonat@autox.team.net  Mon Dec  8 10:51:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Ian Bailey)
Date: Mon Dec  8 10:51:01 2003
Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
References: 
Message-ID: <002c01c3bdb3$99c499e0$857ba8c0@accesscomm.ca>

Brad is right. There is no one to sue. And there is no organization with
money to sue. And no one is going to sue anyway.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Preiss" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI


> Who are "they" going sue? Are we a legal entity of any sort? Do we even
> have an LLC established? I don't believe so - We are not a legal
> organization such as say NASCAR or the IRL. We are a group of INDIVIDUALS
> traveling to the same location at the same time using the Internet to
> confirm the time and place.
>
>   Not to compare us to Harley owners but they do this sort of thing ALL
the
> time - no such lawsuits have arisen that I know of and they are much more
> established. The local Chapters sponsor 100's of thousands of motorcycles
to
> enter DC on Memorial day every year - nary one lawsuit.
>
>  Just saying - I think we need to relax just a tad here...
>
> Brad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:06 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: INSURANCE --> was --> RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> I must be in "half empty" mode today, but who pays the legal fees if some
> nutbar does decide to sue?
>
> [optimist says the cup is half full - pessimist says the cup is half
empty -
> engineer says the cup is too big ...]
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 5, 2003 10:54 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our butts covered.
Not
> that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would then have to
> show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
> exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Mon Dec  8 10:53:33 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Ian Bailey)
Date: Mon Dec  8 10:53:33 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees
References: 
Message-ID: <003301c3bdb3$da8ee7a0$857ba8c0@accesscomm.ca>

I think each sector should figure out what they need to do. And if it is
inconsistent it won't matter that much. Each sector will have to deliver
value for the money they charge. People won't mind paying any amount if they
extract the value for it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:15 PM
Subject: [JONAT] Fees


> To expand on Gregory's thought ... as the intent is for each Sector to be
as
> autonomous as possible ... we could let each Sector decide on their own if
> they want to charge a fixed fee, want to charge a per event fee, or want
to
> charge no fee at all.  Downside would be a bit of inconsistency on the
tour
> if some charge $0 and others charge $150, but it does take us back to
first
> principles ... thoughts?
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
> Sent: December 5, 2003 12:29 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
>
>
> OK folks, having read and digested Mark's reality check, bringing us back
to
> the original idea, I think here in the Victoria / Vancouver sector we will
> keep this thing lean and simple, no organised dinner (who wants to eat
with
> the same people at a fixed price in a fixed place when there are so many
> good and interesting restaurants?).
>     As far as we are concerned, the participants are adults, responsible
for
> their own arrangements and travel, but we will provide guidance and
> recommendations (hotel accomodation rates have been arranged in both
> Victoria and Vancouver; the group will be met arriving from Port Angeles;
> the group will be in Vancouver for the Van Dusen All Brityish Car Show,
with
> a special area on the field set aside).
>                                         Gregory
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Mon Dec  8 11:19:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Dr Gregory Andrachuk)
Date: Mon Dec  8 11:19:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees
References: 
 <003301c3bdb3$da8ee7a0$857ba8c0@accesscomm.ca>
Message-ID: <007901c3bdb7$9dfaccb0$77214518@GREG>

Well said, Ian.
                            Gregory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Bailey" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees


: I think each sector should figure out what they need to do. And if it is
: inconsistent it won't matter that much. Each sector will have to deliver
: value for the money they charge. People won't mind paying any amount if
they
: extract the value for it.
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Bob" 
: To: 
: Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:15 PM
: Subject: [JONAT] Fees
:
:
: > To expand on Gregory's thought ... as the intent is for each Sector to
be
: as
: > autonomous as possible ... we could let each Sector decide on their own
if
: > they want to charge a fixed fee, want to charge a per event fee, or want
: to
: > charge no fee at all.  Downside would be a bit of inconsistency on the
: tour
: > if some charge $0 and others charge $150, but it does take us back to
: first
: > principles ... thoughts?
: >
: > Bob
: >
: >
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: > Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
: > Sent: December 5, 2003 12:29 PM
: > To: jonat@autox.team.net
: > Subject: Re: Fees; was -: [JONAT] RE: FYI
: >
: >
: > OK folks, having read and digested Mark's reality check, bringing us
back
: to
: > the original idea, I think here in the Victoria / Vancouver sector we
will
: > keep this thing lean and simple, no organised dinner (who wants to eat
: with
: > the same people at a fixed price in a fixed place when there are so many
: > good and interesting restaurants?).
: >     As far as we are concerned, the participants are adults, responsible
: for
: > their own arrangements and travel, but we will provide guidance and
: > recommendations (hotel accomodation rates have been arranged in both
: > Victoria and Vancouver; the group will be met arriving from Port
Angeles;
: > the group will be in Vancouver for the Van Dusen All Brityish Car Show,
: with
: > a special area on the field set aside).
: >                                         Gregory
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: > REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: > www.jonat.org
: > _______________________________________________
:
: _______________________________________________
: JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
: REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
: www.jonat.org
: _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Mon Dec  8 11:46:02 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Mon Dec  8 11:46:02 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Fees
In-Reply-To: <000201c3bdb7$56c4aaa0$0a00a8c0@Jaguarot.local>
Message-ID: 

I think if there are any set fees that are above and beyond food and
lodging, they should be listed in the itinerary and a link be made that
points to the event's web site (if there is one) so people aren't surprised.
If there's a sector charge, that should be listed, too.

I won't have a sector charge, but I'll have to list the Rt. 66 Fun Run and
the Grand Canyon park entrance fee.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Ian Bailey
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:16 AM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Fees

I think each sector should figure out what they need to do. And if it is
inconsistent it won't matter that much. Each sector will have to deliver
value for the money they charge. People won't mind paying any amount if they
extract the value for it.



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 13 14:31:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Sat Dec 13 14:31:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Is there any chatter that I'm missing?
Message-ID: 

I set up a Windows 2003 Server last weekend and configured Exchange to
handle all my e-mail. I am receiving test messages on marks@jonat.org
and all my other e-mail is coming through, but I have received anything
from the JONAT list since that time. Coincidence?

Mark - AZ

P.S. I think I'll have my answer if I receive this.


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 13 15:50:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (jonat@autox.team.net)
Date: Sat Dec 13 15:50:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Is there any chatter that I'm missing?
Message-ID: <538b350a51.50a51538b3@shaw.ca>

I haven't received any either, so either everyone has headed for the hills, celebrating Christams early, or they have nothing to say about not having nothing to say.

TOny

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Stephenson 
Date: Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:13 am
Subject: [JONAT] Is there any chatter that I'm missing?

> I set up a Windows 2003 Server last weekend and configured 
> Exchange to
> handle all my e-mail. I am receiving test messages on marks@jonat.org
> and all my other e-mail is coming through, but I have received 
> anythingfrom the JONAT list since that time. Coincidence?
> 
> Mark - AZ
> 
> P.S. I think I'll have my answer if I receive this.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
> 


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 13 18:14:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob England)
Date: Sat Dec 13 18:14:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Is there any chatter that I'm missing?
In-Reply-To: <538b350a51.50a51538b3@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: 

I think we were all tuckered out from the Fees and Insurance discussions of
last week.

On a slightly different topic, how many of you have sent out copies of our
press release?

Bob England
'69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
Route Coordinator
http://www.jonat.org 



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of tparran@shaw.ca
Sent: December 13, 2003 4:45 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Is there any chatter that I'm missing?


I haven't received any either, so either everyone has headed for the hills,
celebrating Christams early, or they have nothing to say about not having
nothing to say.

TOny

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Stephenson 
Date: Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:13 am
Subject: [JONAT] Is there any chatter that I'm missing?

> I set up a Windows 2003 Server last weekend and configured
> Exchange to
> handle all my e-mail. I am receiving test messages on marks@jonat.org
> and all my other e-mail is coming through, but I have received
> anythingfrom the JONAT list since that time. Coincidence?
>
> Mark - AZ
>
> P.S. I think I'll have my answer if I receive this.
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>

_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec 26 10:54:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Fri Dec 26 10:54:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
Message-ID: 

Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.

I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, but
he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having seen
Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for a few
days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it hasn't,
I'm thinking that I don't have access.

If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but
would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if it
shows up in my JONAT box.

Thanks,

Mark -- AZ


From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec 26 11:03:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jerry Mouton)
Date: Fri Dec 26 11:03:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
References: 
Message-ID: <006d01c3cbda$03ed53a0$6501a8c0@momsthinkpad>

Happy New Year, Mark and all!  

I got your post...

Jerry

Jerry Mouton    '64 E Type FHC    "Laissez les bons temps rouler!"
      Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org
      April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:54 AM
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
> 
> I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, but
> he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having seen
> Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for a few
> days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it hasn't,
> I'm thinking that I don't have access.
> 
> If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but
> would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if it
> shows up in my JONAT box.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark -- AZ
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________

From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec 26 17:52:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Ian Bailey)
Date: Fri Dec 26 17:52:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
References: 
Message-ID: <003801c3cc13$70bd3980$857ba8c0@accesscomm.ca>

received
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 11:54 AM
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
> 
> I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, but
> he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having seen
> Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for a few
> days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it hasn't,
> I'm thinking that I don't have access.
> 
> If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but
> would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if it
> shows up in my JONAT box.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark -- AZ
> 
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________

From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec 26 19:04:00 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Fri Dec 26 19:04:00 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
References: 
Message-ID: <001a01c3cc1d$76876b10$7405fea9@CPQ16632140611>

Hi Mark ... yep the list is still alive and well ... and I expect once the
holidays are over we'll see some action on the list ... maybe I shoudl start
another controversial thread or two, like insurance, or maybe fees ...

Bob England


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 11:54 AM
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
>
> I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, but
> he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having seen
> Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for a few
> days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it hasn't,
> I'm thinking that I don't have access.
>
> If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but
> would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if it
> shows up in my JONAT box.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark -- AZ



From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec 26 19:12:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Fri Dec 26 19:12:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
References:  <001a01c3cc1d$76876b10$7405fea9@CPQ16632140611>
Message-ID: <002301c3cc1e$8d4a2e40$7405fea9@CPQ16632140611>

Well ... I just found out my spell checker doesn't automatically do spell
checking ... hopefully you can decipher my message anyway ... and MERRY
CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR to all ... Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi Mark ... yep the list is still alive and well ... and I expect once the
> holidays are over we'll see some action on the list ... maybe I shoudl
start
> another controversial thread or two, like insurance, or maybe fees ...
>
> Bob England



From jonat@autox.team.net  Fri Dec 26 19:45:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Brad Preiss)
Date: Fri Dec 26 19:45:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
In-Reply-To: <001a01c3cc1d$76876b10$7405fea9@CPQ16632140611>
Message-ID: 

Or maybe we can discuss conference calls - lol!!!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone -

One thing: What software is the best for making and posting maps ( such as
the ones used on some Canada legs ) - I got some "cash" for Christmas and
thought I would invest in some decent software...

Thanks for any input....

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:02 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving
e-mail)


Hi Mark ... yep the list is still alive and well ... and I expect once the
holidays are over we'll see some action on the list ... maybe I shoudl start
another controversial thread or two, like insurance, or maybe fees ...

Bob England


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 11:54 AM
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
>
> I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, but
> he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having seen
> Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for a few
> days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it hasn't,
> I'm thinking that I don't have access.
>
> If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but
> would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if it
> shows up in my JONAT box.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark -- AZ


_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 27 06:29:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Bob)
Date: Sat Dec 27 06:29:01 2003
Subject: Maps --> was --> RE: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Brad

I'm using Microsoft Streets and Maps for the maps on the WebPages.  If you
decide to buy it, let me know and I'll e-mail you the map I have for your
sector.

Bob England
'69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
Route Coordinator
http://www.jonat.org



-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
Behalf Of Brad Preiss
Sent: December 26, 2003 8:44 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving
e-mail)


Or maybe we can discuss conference calls - lol!!!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone -

One thing: What software is the best for making and posting maps ( such as
the ones used on some Canada legs ) - I got some "cash" for Christmas and
thought I would invest in some decent software...

Thanks for any input....

Brad



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 27 09:27:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Hazel  A. Beck)
Date: Sat Dec 27 09:27:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
References: 
Message-ID: <012401c3cc96$1da4b4c0$76aea8c0@oemcomputer>

Hi, Mark...San Diego checking in...I think the holidays just overtook us
all...we'll be back on-line in a few days!

Hazel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:54 AM
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
>
> I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, but
> he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having seen
> Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for a few
> days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it hasn't,
> I'm thinking that I don't have access.
>
> If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but
> would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if it
> shows up in my JONAT box.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark -- AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 27 13:12:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jamie - JONAT)
Date: Sat Dec 27 13:12:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
References: 
Message-ID: <001001c3ccb5$08314760$6501a8c0@attbi.com>

Sorry Mark, I have been running in too many directions at once ... and
completely have forgotten to send out the notice of my inprogress move with
subsequent isolation (electronically speaking).  Heck, we just learned
yesterday that we don't even have cable TV on our new road.  If we want it,
we have to pay about $900 PLUS the regular install fees.  I'm not too sure I
will be doing that at this time.  The kids will just have to deal with it!


Anyways, this may be my last post for a couple of weeks as I'm preparing to
disconnect all our computing at the present location (old house) and move it
all to the new property (which doesn't have cable modem, satellite or DSL
capabilities as of now).  It'll take me a while to get the important things
settled in and then I can try to recall how to set up a modem on the regular
phone lines again.  Then I'll be back.

Hope everyone had a terrific Christmas!  And Dru & I wish everyone a happy,
prosperous & serene New Year!

Jamie

Jamie & Dru - Marysville, WA
88 Series III V12 VdP - Roxanne
89 XJS V12 Convertible - Butch
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org
April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:54 AM
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
>
> I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, but
> he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having seen
> Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for a few
> days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it hasn't,
> I'm thinking that I don't have access.
>
> If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but
> would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if it
> shows up in my JONAT box.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark -- AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 27 13:14:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Jamie - JONAT)
Date: Sat Dec 27 13:14:01 2003
Subject: Maps --> was --> RE: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
References: 
Message-ID: <002101c3ccb5$63c1d4a0$6501a8c0@attbi.com>

That's the program I've been using too.

Jamie

Jamie & Dru - Everett, WA
88 Series III V12 VdP - Roxanne
89 XJS V12 Convertible - Butch
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org
April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 5:27 AM
Subject: Maps --> was --> RE: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm
receiving e-mail)


> Brad
>
> I'm using Microsoft Streets and Maps for the maps on the WebPages.  If you
> decide to buy it, let me know and I'll e-mail you the map I have for your
> sector.
>
> Bob England
> '69 E-Type & '72 XJ6
> Jaguar Owner's North American Tour (JONAT)
> Route Coordinator
> http://www.jonat.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Brad Preiss
> Sent: December 26, 2003 8:44 PM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving
> e-mail)
>
>
> Or maybe we can discuss conference calls - lol!!!
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone -
>
> One thing: What software is the best for making and posting maps ( such as
> the ones used on some Canada legs ) - I got some "cash" for Christmas and
> thought I would invest in some decent software...
>
> Thanks for any input....
>
> Brad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>



From jonat@autox.team.net  Sat Dec 27 16:33:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (JONAT Webmaster)
Date: Sat Dec 27 16:33:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
In-Reply-To: <001001c3ccb5$08314760$6501a8c0@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <004001c3ccd1$a765e590$7701a8c0@c350735a>

Jamie,
Long time no talk. Congratulations on your move. I have been working
like crazy on the e-type. I don't know if I'll have it done for summer
2004, but that's my deadline so far. I have 2 rear resonators and
stainless tips for your XJ12, sitting in my trunk. I sometimes teach in
Everett, so I can come drop them off. Or maybe you want me to keep them
here for a couple months while you get everything settled in your new
house?  No problem if you do.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Jamie - JONAT
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 12:07 PM
To: jonat@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving
e-mail)


Sorry Mark, I have been running in too many directions at once ... and
completely have forgotten to send out the notice of my inprogress move
with subsequent isolation (electronically speaking).  Heck, we just
learned yesterday that we don't even have cable TV on our new road.  If
we want it, we have to pay about $900 PLUS the regular install fees.
I'm not too sure I will be doing that at this time.  The kids will just
have to deal with it! 

Anyways, this may be my last post for a couple of weeks as I'm preparing
to disconnect all our computing at the present location (old house) and
move it all to the new property (which doesn't have cable modem,
satellite or DSL capabilities as of now).  It'll take me a while to get
the important things settled in and then I can try to recall how to set
up a modem on the regular phone lines again.  Then I'll be back.

Hope everyone had a terrific Christmas!  And Dru & I wish everyone a
happy, prosperous & serene New Year!

Jamie

Jamie & Dru - Marysville, WA
88 Series III V12 VdP - Roxanne
89 XJS V12 Convertible - Butch
Jaguar Owner's North American Tour - http://jonat.org
April 15, 2004 - July 4, 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Stephenson" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:54 AM
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)


> Hi, everyone. I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.
>
> I mentioned to Bob a while ago that I might not be receiving e-mail, 
> but he said that the list traffic had dropped off. However, having 
> seen Jamie's post about moving and losing his Internet connection for 
> a few days or weeks, I figured something would show up here. Since it 
> hasn't, I'm thinking that I don't have access.
>
> If there hasn't been any activity on the list, that explains it, but 
> would someone send a confirmation of that to the list so I can see if 
> it shows up in my JONAT box.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark -- AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list
> REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
> www.jonat.org
> _______________________________________________
>


_______________________________________________
JAGUAR OWNER'S NORTH AMERICAN TOUR mailing list 
REPLY TO : JONAT@autox.team.net
www.jonat.org
_______________________________________________


From jonat@autox.team.net  Sun Dec 28 00:55:01 2003
From: jonat@autox.team.net (Mark Stephenson)
Date: Sun Dec 28 00:55:01 2003
Subject: [JONAT] Merry Christmas (I don't think I'm receiving e-mail)
Message-ID: 

OK. Good to know that I'm still in the loop. I'm planning to check out
hotels next week. Then I'll get with our hotel-negotiator person to set
up the rates if possible. I think Kingman, AZ will be a free-for-all
because of the crowds that will be there for the Fun Run, so we might
have to set up a designated meeting spot rather than a designated hotel,
but we'll see.

Mark -- AZ