[JONAT] RE: FYI

[Mark Stephenson]

Bob,

I think with a proper number of disclaimers we'd have our butts covered. Not
that that would stop anyone from suing. The plaintiff would then have to
show that we either intentionally misdirected participants or didn't
exercise due diligence in setting up the route and book. 

Mark 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net 
> [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:34 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> Mark
> 
> You have some really good comments..
> 
> You are absolutely right in the three basic things we are 
> putting together,
> with specific events over and above this up to the SC's.
> 
> I think the only thing I might disagree on is zero JONAT fee 
> for one Sector
> participation - but only because I think this will encourage 
> single sector
> participants.  The key is keeping it low enough so it will 
> not deter anyone
> from participating.
> 
> I'd be very interested to hear other's thoughts on this fee 
> thread, as $ is
> what will complicate things as Mark says.
> 
> The thing that I keep wondering about is insurance.  If we 
> sell the route
> books independent of tour registration, then are we liable if 
> someone gets
> in an accident, or lost "on the wrong side of the tracks" and 
> gets into
> trouble, if they buy a book but do not register for the Tour and are
> therefore not covered by Tour insurance?  Perhaps this leads 
> into a separate
> thread on insurance (any experts in insurance or law out 
> there?) -or- is
> there some way we can have a waiver signed and not have to worry about
> insurance?
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> Sent: December 5, 2003 1:27 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> 
> 
> Perhaps I had a misconception of JONAT from the beginning, 
> but I thought we
> were doing three things:
> 
> 1. setting up a proposed route that JONATers could take if they chose,
> 2. suggesting lodging, perhaps arranging some special rates, and,
> 3. maybe, suggesting some eating spots along the way.
> 
> People would be responsible for their own expenses, paying for things
> themselves. Operating under that assumption, the only thing I 
> can think of
> that SCs would have to front money for would be Route Books. 
> They would be
> on line, available for download. Since most of our 
> communication with the
> world has been on-line, I expect that is how most of the 
> participants will
> hear about us.
> 
> Is anyone planning a route book longer that 20 pages? Most 
> copy places in
> Arizona are 5¢/page. That would be a buck a book. I'm expecting 50
> participants. That would be $50 if no one downloaded the book from the
> website. For the people who don't download it, I'd set the 
> charge at $5.00.
> That would encourage them to download it, and if we have the 
> checkboxes as I
> suggested in my previous e-mail, we'd have a good idea of how 
> many people
> will not have their own hard copy. So, if 40 people indicated 
> that they were
> planning to download and print out the route book, that would 
> leave me 10
> that I needed to print. I'd print up another 5 just in case. My actual
> outlay would be $15, I'd sell 10 books I knew I'd sell for 
> $50, and perhaps
> a few more. If I needed extra copies, hotels always have a 
> copier and will
> make copies for you for more than a copy shop, but that would 
> have to be
> 25¢/page before I'd lose on the copying.
> 
> The few bucks I'd make on the route book would defray a small 
> part of my
> costs of scouting out the route.
> 
> I'm not sure where the whole thing about renting a room for a 
> get-together
> at each sector hand-off came from, and while it would be 
> nice, we're not
> running the Copperstate 1000 or the California Mille. People 
> pay $4000+ for
> those 4-day trips. All their accomodations are arranged for them --
> including vans to haul luggage. They attract about 60 cars. 
> By comparison we
> have a two-day trip in Arizona called the British Euro Auto 
> Tour (BEAT).
> It's $50 which covers coffee and doughnuts and lunch Saturday 
> and pays for a
> sag-wagon to follow the route. There is a designated hotel 
> Saturday night,
> with special room rates, but entrants make their own 
> reservations, they
> choose their own restaurant for dinner Saturday and all meals 
> Sunday. The
> last couple years they've averaged 160 cars.
> 
> If people want to get fancy on their sector, I think it would 
> be up to the
> SC to either front the money and be repaid by the participants, obtain
> sponsorships, or come up with some creative way to finance 
> it.  In keeping
> with the philosophy expressed all along, attendance at a 
> scheduled event
> dinner would be voluntary. Some people may prefer a quiet 
> dinner on their
> own. So it isn't a sector fee, it's the participant paying 
> for their dinner.
> The Route 66 Fun Run is the last two days of the Arizona 
> Sector, and there's
> a charge for that. It's not much, but if you are going to 
> join us, we'd
> certainly expect that you pay the Fun Run fee to support 
> preservation of
> Route 66. The roads are public, so there's no reason why you 
> would have to,
> but ethically, it's the right thing to do. I'm not going to 
> pay for a block
> of people for the Fun Run and expect to be reimbursed when 
> they show up,
> that's going to be up to the participant.
> 
> We can charge a JONAT fee if we decide it's necessary, but I 
> really think we
> should provide some nice mementos that people will want to 
> buy. The most
> obvious one, IMO, would be a binder, especially one that 
> would fold back
> flat, for the navigators. Supplied with it should be tabbed 
> dividers for
> each sector. People may only take one or two sectors, but if 
> they really
> enjoy them, some will probably download and print out the 
> entire route.
> Keyrings would also be nice. The fobs can be engraved or 
> imprinted. They
> make them with an imprintable tire pressure gauge. I think 
> there would be
> some national parts suppliers (the usual suspects) who would 
> love to have
> their company on one side and the JONAT logo on the other. We 
> could date
> them, to make them specific mementos for each year, or leave 
> them generic.
> We could use the route-book dividers as full-page ads for 
> vendors who want
> their name in front of JONATers for years to come. We could 
> get route-book
> printing paid for by reserving a small bit of ad space at the 
> bottom of each
> page. In short, we could get sponsors to pay for all of the 
> memorabilia.
> Anything we sell could be used for more lavish plans in two 
> years. If we
> have lots left over, we could donate a portion to charity, 
> but I'd keep a
> chunk for seed money for 2006.
> 
> The advantage of a JONAT fee? You lock people in. You can set 
> a deadline
> after which we keep some or all of their entry fee. The 
> problem is that it
> has to be small. In the case of the Arizona Sector, I suspect 
> that half of
> our participants will drive up from Phoenix and meet us in 
> Williams Friday
> night, then return to Phoenix from Lake Havasu Sunday 
> Morning. They will
> have the Rt. 66 Fun Run fee, so I don't know how excited they 
> would be about
> paying a JONAT fee, especially since 90% of their part of the 
> run will be
> organized by the Fun Run folks. I'd rather have them 
> participating with the
> rest of the local club and forego the JONAT fee rather than have them
> deterred by a second cost for half a sector.
> 
> See what I'm getting at? Fees complicate things. Based on the 
> realities of
> our sector, if we're going to have a JONAT fee, I think that 
> fee should be
> requested from anyone doing two or more sectors. For the 
> people only doing
> one, it's more of a club function (at least it is in my case).
> 
> Mark Stephenson, Sector Coordinator - Arizona
> Jaguar Owners North American Tour (www.jonat.org)
> April 15 - July 4, 2004
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:44 PM
> > To: jonat@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [JONAT] RE: FYI
> >
> > Gregory
> >
> > If you are having a dinner in these centres, and you do not
> > have a sponsor,
> > then the participants will have to pay (am I following you
> > correctly?).
> > Then, you will need to collect money from participants, and
> > hence a Sector
> > fee and back to where we started.  Or collecting money at the
> > door - still a
> > form of sector fee but more of a user-pay type approach but
> > tougheer to
> > predict numbers.
> >
> > I'm suspecting (or hoping?) that 25-30 people might be a
> > light for your
> > area, but it all depends upon how much PR you do locally, 
> and how much
> > national and international press we can get.  It's a good
> > place to start
> > though.
> >
> > Bob
> 
> 
> 
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