[JONAT] Costs and revenue

Dr Gregory Andrachuk jonat@autox.team.net
Thu Feb 26 09:02:01 2004


Bob: selling of a fee for this thing will require specifics about WHICH
charity, and where it is. It isn't reasonable to expect people in Victoria
to be excited about contributing to a charity in Atlanta.
                                Gregory
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:04 AM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue


: Mark
:
: You are right on a number of counts, but I disagree on others.  Keep in
: mind, I'm an Engineer not an accountant, and forced into putting a budget
: together as no-one else would volunteer.  The budget was reviewed by
others,
: but you can blame me for it 100%.
:
: I did want to clarify one thing though.  The $5000 I mentioned in my
e-mail
: was seed money for printing the plates, not an out-of-pocket amount for
low
: participation.  Sorry if I mislead you on this - my better half would kill
: me if I dropped $5k on this event!
:
: Also, keep in mind as we move along we are refining the costs.  For
example,
: we have some legal advice (yesterday) that indicated rather than register
as
: a non-profit (not a charity) (registering as a charity is about $300 by
the
: way, this is info from late Tuesday) with participants, we're best to be
an
: association with members.  Although this is in Canada only, it still is a
: pretty darn good saving, which would mean additional $ to charity.
:
: I haven't heard anyone mention charity yet (including me), lets not forget
: this aspect.
:
: Bob England
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
: Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
: Sent: February 26, 2004 2:41 AM
: To: jonat@autox.team.net
: Subject: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
:
:
: "A good portion of our membership monies will come from participants that
: are in the local clubs - this may create a situation where we would not
: reach the break even number due to all of the "exempt" drivers in this
: scenario" - this would tick me off royally as I'm the guy who is likely
: going to have to spring the $5,000 to pay for the registration packages
: until the money starts rolling (well trickling really) in." -Bob
:
: See:
: http://jonat.org/bob/registrationform/registrationbudget.htm
: For the numbers I reference below.
:
: Bob,
:
: Oh, pullllleeeaaaaassssse! You are making it look like you are going to be
: $5000 out of pocket if we only have 100 entrants. No way!
:
: I started to write you an e-mail off list because I felt we were
: overcharging. A number of us requested that you keep the costs down, but
in
: the end, the EC came up with a cost close to where it was before we
started
: the discussion. That's fine. It's your decision. I was too irritated at
the
: time and held the e-mail until I could tone down my rhetoric. This
however,
: sends me over the top, so I'm cranking up my old-time cash register and
: pullin' the shotgun out from under the counter.
:
: First of all, you guys came up with the rule that if there aren't five
: entrants in a sector, the SC has to pay. Well, excuse me, but how are you
: going to have 90 free SCs with only 14 paid entrants. You would have at
: most, two people on a free ride. That means you'd have 102 paid
: registrations which would equal, with shipping, $4794Cdn. Given total
: expenses of $5369.28, you'd be out less than $600.
:
: Cha-ching.
:
: Let's take a look at some of the expenses. Why do we have to register as a
: charity? In two countries? We're not doing any charitable work. We might
be
: passing money through to a charity, but it doesn't mean that we have to
: register as one. All we have to do, if we want to go to the trouble right
: now, is form a non-profit corporation. In the U.S. that costs a few
hundred
: dollars. I can't believe it's much more in Canada. You don't have to do
that
: in every country just because you're driving there. Just pick one. US?
: Canada? But why be out of pocket now? Use some of the extra money after
the
: tour. There's $2000 in costs eliminated.
:
: Cha-ching.
:
: What are the registration inserts? We can get copies made down here for
: 5¢/page. If you double that for Cdn$, that's 50 pages per entrant. What
are
: we printing that's 50 pages? Someone is doing a whole lot of writing. If
: it's the JONAT info, maps, and directions, the simple solution is to have
: all that on line (as we discussed on this forum), have people download it,
: and print it out themselves. If someone who doesn't have Internet access
: knows about the tour, a friend had to have told them. The friend would
print
: out info. For those who have no way of getting the information, the SCs
can
: bring a copy of the route info to the starting point and have the
travelers
: make the copies themselves. Add another $565+Cdn.
:
: Cha-ching -- savings subtotal $2565 pops up in curly numbers. At the same
: time, we've cut the shipping costs, and reduced the amount of stuff the
SCs
: have to carry from one sector to the next.
:
: Packaging costs. You have $2.00 + tax for packaging for each entrant. That
: would be $20 for a box and filler to send 10 plates to an SC. We don't
have
: to get fancy to send things to the SC. Instead wrap the license plates in
: old newspapers -- they're free. Go to the local grocery or computer store
: and get boxes. Cut a piece of corrugated cardboard and wrap it around the
: ten plates. Tape the ends and the overlap. The plates will provide the
: rigidity. They aren't going to get bent. Packaging costs have now been
: reduced to $0. Even if you wanted to buy boxes that were close to the
: correct size, they would be at most, $5 with tax. For 100 participants,
: that's a savings of $200+Cdn or around $50 if you buy boxes.
:
: Cha-ching -- the little pointy-topped metal plates say savings subtotal
: approx. $2700.
:
: Now take a look at shipping costs. I think you are totally off base. If an
: SC has ten registrants, there is no way it is going to cost $70 to ship 10
: aluminum license plates to a SC (even if you were going to include the
ream
: of paper which doesn't appear to be necessary). I can't see it costing
more
: than $20 by UPS ground. Actually, I think something that size and weight
: anywhere within the US would be about $10US. If it's a lot more than my
: estimate to ship from Canada compared to the US, then ship one box with
all
: the plates across the border and have someone here send them out to the
SCs.
: Savings from $70 estimate to $20 estimate - at least $500 for 100
entrants.
:
: Cha-ching, cha-ching -- savings total at least $3200Cdn.
:
: OK, the big concern is what do we do with the late registrants? First off,
: don't make an excessive amount of plates in advance. I'm assuming that we
: are talking vinyl cut-outs on the aluminum plate. The most time consuming
: part is setting up the software to make your image. Once that's done, it
: doesn't cost any more to make up ten sets of letters than it does to make
: 100. Sure, you have to load the vinyl into the machine but that's a 5
minute
: job. I know because my brother did it as a sideline for a while. Next,
make
: the late registrants pay. Make it clear that if they register after a
: certain date, the plates will have already been sent to the SC, so they
will
: have to have theirs made specially and sent directly to them and there's
no
: guarantee that it will arrive in time for their sector departure. Get a
time
: frame for an order of a few plates from the vinyl cutter and post it on
the
: web site. Calculate how much it is to send one plate ground, 3rd day, 2nd
: day, and overnig!
: ht and have those shipping options available on the web site. Bump up the
: registration by an additional $20 for your time and trouble to
individually
: pack the plate. If 25 of the 100 registrants are late (and if our club is
: any indication, that's a conservative figure), you have an additional $500
: in revenue..
:
: If they don't get the plates in time, it's no big deal. I don't have a
place
: to mount it on my car and probably the majority of entrants won't either.
: Jags in states with no front plate requirement often don't have the ugly
: brackets installed. People in states that require front plates can't put
: them on. So most people are just going to be carrying them inside the car
: anyway.
:
: With the savings and revenue projections above and with only 100 entrants
: (an underestimation I'll bet) not only won't you be out of pocket, you'll
: have over $2500 for charity, to form a non-profit, and as seed money next
: time. If we eliminated the exorbitant $7.00 shipping cost and just charge
: the $40 for the people who are going to pick up their plates at the
: beginning of their sector, we'd still have nearly $2000 excess with only
100
: registrants.
:
: Keeping that in mind, here is how I'm going to approach it in my sector.
: People who want to be JONATers with the plate and everything can pay the
$40
: or whatever. By the same token, you guys are out of pocket for the website
: and the bank charges. If we had only 100 entrants, that would be
: $4.50Cdn/person. So, I'm going to get all the people who don't want or
need
: all the paraphernalia to kick in $10US for you guys and the work you've
: done. That would be about $15Cdn. I expect about 25 local cars to take at
: least part of my sector, so that's another $375 for the kitty. Keep in
mind
: that my group is already paying $44 for the Rt. 66 Fun Run. The Phoenix
: spur, the Fun Run, and the roads back are the exact same route they'd take
: if you, me, and the local club was not involved, so there's not much value
: add there. I'll push hard for the folks traveling to the Grand Canyon or
: earlier in my sector to pay the $36US, or maybe I'll see if they want to
pay
: $20 and skip the license plat!
: es and 50 pages of stuff.
:
: OK, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I'll get my route directions
to
: you, along with the hotels and eateries, just in time for the 2/29
deadline.
: :-)
:
: Mark - AZ
:
:
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