[JONAT] Costs and revenue
Richard Jones
jonat@autox.team.net
Thu Feb 26 13:34:01 2004
Different charities for each sector??
30+ charities?
How about just picking 1 (internationally accepted) charity for all?
Dick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> Regina is Multiple Sclerosis ... have you selected one for you sector ?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Dr Gregory Andrachuk
> Sent: February 26, 2004 9:55 AM
> To: jonat@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
>
>
> Bob: selling of a fee for this thing will require specifics about WHICH
> charity, and where it is. It isn't reasonable to expect people in
Victoria
> to be excited about contributing to a charity in Atlanta.
> Gregory
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" <engl@accesscomm.ca>
> To: <jonat@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:04 AM
> Subject: RE: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
>
>
> : Mark
> :
> : You are right on a number of counts, but I disagree on others. Keep
in
> : mind, I'm an Engineer not an accountant, and forced into putting a
budget
> : together as no-one else would volunteer. The budget was reviewed by
> others,
> : but you can blame me for it 100%.
> :
> : I did want to clarify one thing though. The $5000 I mentioned in my
> e-mail
> : was seed money for printing the plates, not an out-of-pocket amount
for
> low
> : participation. Sorry if I mislead you on this - my better half would
kill
> : me if I dropped $5k on this event!
> :
> : Also, keep in mind as we move along we are refining the costs. For
> example,
> : we have some legal advice (yesterday) that indicated rather than
register
> as
> : a non-profit (not a charity) (registering as a charity is about $300
by
> the
> : way, this is info from late Tuesday) with participants, we're best to
be
> an
> : association with members. Although this is in Canada only, it still
is a
> : pretty darn good saving, which would mean additional $ to charity.
> :
> : I haven't heard anyone mention charity yet (including me), lets not
forget
> : this aspect.
> :
> : Bob England
> :
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: jonat-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:jonat-admin@autox.team.net]On
> : Behalf Of Mark Stephenson
> : Sent: February 26, 2004 2:41 AM
> : To: jonat@autox.team.net
> : Subject: [JONAT] Costs and revenue
> :
> :
> : "A good portion of our membership monies will come from participants
that
> : are in the local clubs - this may create a situation where we would
not
> : reach the break even number due to all of the "exempt" drivers in this
> : scenario" - this would tick me off royally as I'm the guy who is
likely
> : going to have to spring the $5,000 to pay for the registration
packages
> : until the money starts rolling (well trickling really) in." -Bob
> :
> : See:
> : http://jonat.org/bob/registrationform/registrationbudget.htm
> : For the numbers I reference below.
> :
> : Bob,
> :
> : Oh, pullllleeeaaaaassssse! You are making it look like you are going
to be
> : $5000 out of pocket if we only have 100 entrants. No way!
> :
> : I started to write you an e-mail off list because I felt we were
> : overcharging. A number of us requested that you keep the costs down,
but
> in
> : the end, the EC came up with a cost close to where it was before we
> started
> : the discussion. That's fine. It's your decision. I was too irritated
at
> the
> : time and held the e-mail until I could tone down my rhetoric. This
> however,
> : sends me over the top, so I'm cranking up my old-time cash register
and
> : pullin' the shotgun out from under the counter.
> :
> : First of all, you guys came up with the rule that if there aren't five
> : entrants in a sector, the SC has to pay. Well, excuse me, but how are
you
> : going to have 90 free SCs with only 14 paid entrants. You would have
at
> : most, two people on a free ride. That means you'd have 102 paid
> : registrations which would equal, with shipping, $4794Cdn. Given total
> : expenses of $5369.28, you'd be out less than $600.
> :
> : Cha-ching.
> :
> : Let's take a look at some of the expenses. Why do we have to register
as a
> : charity? In two countries? We're not doing any charitable work. We
might
> be
> : passing money through to a charity, but it doesn't mean that we have
to
> : register as one. All we have to do, if we want to go to the trouble
right
> : now, is form a non-profit corporation. In the U.S. that costs a few
> hundred
> : dollars. I can't believe it's much more in Canada. You don't have to
do
> that
> : in every country just because you're driving there. Just pick one. US?
> : Canada? But why be out of pocket now? Use some of the extra money
after
> the
> : tour. There's $2000 in costs eliminated.
> :
> : Cha-ching.
> :
> : What are the registration inserts? We can get copies made down here
for
> : 5¢/page. If you double that for Cdn$, that's 50 pages per entrant.
What
> are
> : we printing that's 50 pages? Someone is doing a whole lot of writing.
If
> : it's the JONAT info, maps, and directions, the simple solution is to
have
> : all that on line (as we discussed on this forum), have people download
it,
> : and print it out themselves. If someone who doesn't have Internet
access
> : knows about the tour, a friend had to have told them. The friend would
> print
> : out info. For those who have no way of getting the information, the
SCs
> can
> : bring a copy of the route info to the starting point and have the
> travelers
> : make the copies themselves. Add another $565+Cdn.
> :
> : Cha-ching -- savings subtotal $2565 pops up in curly numbers. At the
same
> : time, we've cut the shipping costs, and reduced the amount of stuff
the
> SCs
> : have to carry from one sector to the next.
> :
> : Packaging costs. You have $2.00 + tax for packaging for each entrant.
That
> : would be $20 for a box and filler to send 10 plates to an SC. We don't
> have
> : to get fancy to send things to the SC. Instead wrap the license plates
in
> : old newspapers -- they're free. Go to the local grocery or computer
store
> : and get boxes. Cut a piece of corrugated cardboard and wrap it around
the
> : ten plates. Tape the ends and the overlap. The plates will provide the
> : rigidity. They aren't going to get bent. Packaging costs have now been
> : reduced to $0. Even if you wanted to buy boxes that were close to the
> : correct size, they would be at most, $5 with tax. For 100
participants,
> : that's a savings of $200+Cdn or around $50 if you buy boxes.
> :
> : Cha-ching -- the little pointy-topped metal plates say savings
subtotal
> : approx. $2700.
> :
> : Now take a look at shipping costs. I think you are totally off base.
If an
> : SC has ten registrants, there is no way it is going to cost $70 to
ship 10
> : aluminum license plates to a SC (even if you were going to include the
> ream
> : of paper which doesn't appear to be necessary). I can't see it costing
> more
> : than $20 by UPS ground. Actually, I think something that size and
weight
> : anywhere within the US would be about $10US. If it's a lot more than
my
> : estimate to ship from Canada compared to the US, then ship one box
with
> all
> : the plates across the border and have someone here send them out to
the
> SCs.
> : Savings from $70 estimate to $20 estimate - at least $500 for 100
> entrants.
> :
> : Cha-ching, cha-ching -- savings total at least $3200Cdn.
> :
> : OK, the big concern is what do we do with the late registrants? First
off,
> : don't make an excessive amount of plates in advance. I'm assuming that
we
> : are talking vinyl cut-outs on the aluminum plate. The most time
consuming
> : part is setting up the software to make your image. Once that's done,
it
> : doesn't cost any more to make up ten sets of letters than it does to
make
> : 100. Sure, you have to load the vinyl into the machine but that's a 5
> minute
> : job. I know because my brother did it as a sideline for a while. Next,
> make
> : the late registrants pay. Make it clear that if they register after a
> : certain date, the plates will have already been sent to the SC, so
they
> will
> : have to have theirs made specially and sent directly to them and
there's
> no
> : guarantee that it will arrive in time for their sector departure. Get
a
> time
> : frame for an order of a few plates from the vinyl cutter and post it
on
> the
> : web site. Calculate how much it is to send one plate ground, 3rd day,
2nd
> : day, and overnig!
> : ht and have those shipping options available on the web site. Bump up
the
> : registration by an additional $20 for your time and trouble to
> individually
> : pack the plate. If 25 of the 100 registrants are late (and if our club
is
> : any indication, that's a conservative figure), you have an additional
$500
> : in revenue..
> :
> : If they don't get the plates in time, it's no big deal. I don't have a
> place
> : to mount it on my car and probably the majority of entrants won't
either.
> : Jags in states with no front plate requirement often don't have the
ugly
> : brackets installed. People in states that require front plates can't
put
> : them on. So most people are just going to be carrying them inside the
car
> : anyway.
> :
> : With the savings and revenue projections above and with only 100
entrants
> : (an underestimation I'll bet) not only won't you be out of pocket,
you'll
> : have over $2500 for charity, to form a non-profit, and as seed money n
ext
> : time. If we eliminated the exorbitant $7.00 shipping cost and just
charge
> : the $40 for the people who are going to pick up their plates at the
> : beginning of their sector, we'd still have nearly $2000 excess with
only
> 100
> : registrants.
> :
> : Keeping that in mind, here is how I'm going to approach it in my
sector.
> : People who want to be JONATers with the plate and everything can pay
the
> $40
> : or whatever. By the same token, you guys are out of pocket for the
website
> : and the bank charges. If we had only 100 entrants, that would be
> : $4.50Cdn/person. So, I'm going to get all the people who don't want or
> need
> : all the paraphernalia to kick in $10US for you guys and the work
you've
> : done. That would be about $15Cdn. I expect about 25 local cars to take
at
> : least part of my sector, so that's another $375 for the kitty. Keep in
> mind
> : that my group is already paying $44 for the Rt. 66 Fun Run. The
Phoenix
> : spur, the Fun Run, and the roads back are the exact same route they'd
take
> : if you, me, and the local club was not involved, so there's not much
value
> : add there. I'll push hard for the folks traveling to the Grand Canyon
or
> : earlier in my sector to pay the $36US, or maybe I'll see if they want
to
> pay
> : $20 and skip the license plat!
> : es and 50 pages of stuff.
> :
> : OK, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I'll get my route
directions
> to
> : you, along with the hotels and eateries, just in time for the 2/29
> deadline.
> : :-)
> :
> : Mark - AZ
> :
> :
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