From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 17:56:27 2020
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:56:27 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>

It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a cylinder from when the spark
ignites it.  The engine designers want the peak pressure to occur at
between 5-10 ATDC.
At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.
So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, your base timing is 10 BTDC,
if  you want  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
If you look at tune up specs for non smog controlled engines, most have
base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
Now if you double the engine speed, it still take 3ms to burn, but to keep
the max pressure at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
You do eventually get to a point where no more advance will help.  That
point varies with the engine design,  cam profile, combustion chamber
design, headers etc.
Rick

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 5:55 AM Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Hello friends,
>
>    When one is a geek, one thinks of geeky things. I am a geek and this
> house-bound morning I woke up thinking about ignition timing. Here are the
> details.
>
>    We know that the charge (fuel plus air) in a cylinder doesn't burn
> instantly, despite our perception to the contrary. Rather, it takes a
> finite length of time from the occurance of the 'spark', the flame front to
> cross the combustion chamber, and to raise the MEP (Mean Effective
> Pressure) to a maximum - the point where it does the most work. But how
> much time?
>    Physics problems always start by listing the 'known' and the property
> to 'find'. So in this case,
>
> KNOWN:
>    Idle speed: 900rpm
>    Idle timing advance: 4? BTDC
>    Speed at maximum advance: 3500rpm
>    Maximum timing advance: 32? BTDC
>
> FIND:
>    Time from spark to MEP
>
>    The first thing one might know is that the goal at idle is not to
> produce maximum power. In fact, at idle 100% of the available power is used
> to overcome the friction and other forces that exist at idle speed. Stated
> another way: Idle speed is the fastest the engine can achieve given the
> available charge. That fact is evident (with carbureted engines) when one
> notices that engine speed gradually increases, even for a fixed throttle
> setting, as the engine warms and friction forces decrease. But back to the
> problem.
>
>    Because the goal at idle is smooth running and progression off of idle
> (e.g. speeding up), not maximum power, the calculated wavefront speed may
> not be correct at idle. But let's see.
>
>    At idle speed, 900rpm in this MG TD example, the XPAG engine is turning
> 900rpm or 900rpm / 60mps = 15rps (revolutions per second).
>
>    Distributor speed is 1/2 engine speed so at idle the distributor is
> turning only 7.5 revolutions per second. But timing numbers are specified
> in degrees of crank rotations so we will stick with 15rps.
>
>    We don't know how fast the flame front travels across the combustion
> chamber but we do know that maximum work occurs when the piston is half way
> down the cylinder. And we also know that work isn't an instantaneous
> parameter so it must begin before the half way point and last past that
> point. Lots of unknowns and theory doesn't always work in practice. But if
> we use the average piston position at half-way down the bore, where most
> work is most effective, and the MEP (Mean Effective Pressure), since Mean
> is average, calculations begin.
>
>    A single revolution is 360? so half-way down the power stroke is 90?.
> Add the idle spark timing of 4? BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) and we get
> 94? of crank rotation from spark to MEP at half-way down. That's 94/360 or
> about 0.26 of an engine revolution. And the engine is turning 15
> revolutions per second or 67ms (milliseconds) per revolution. So 67 x 0.26
> = 17ms from spark to MEP at half-way down the power stroke, at idle.
>
>    If we repeat the calculations for operating engine speed and at maximum
> advance, we get 3500rpm / 60mps = 58rps (revolutions per second). Maximum
> advance is 32? BTDC so 90? + 32? = 122?, spark to MEP or 122?/360? = 0.34
> of a revolution
>
>    58rps is 17ms/r so 17ms/r x 0.34r = 5.78ms from spark to MEP at
> half-way down the power stroke. This is a more representative number than
> the 17ms at idle. One might even divide the idle elapsed time minus the
> optimal time across the strike's midpoint. Doing so would mean at idle, the
> pressure at idle becomes most effective 5.6ms before half-way and for
> another 5.6ms after midpoint. Interesting that the idle pressure
> application time is about the same as the maximum pressure application
> time, or is that circular logic?
>
>    Yes everything above is ripe with assumptions and perhaps even
> apocryphal and resplendent with errors, but it is only 7am after all.
>
>    Anyone with extra house-bound time on their hands, please check my
> maths and share your corrections, including the logic of the whole
> experiment...or perhaps even why geeks think these ways!
>
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200401/585268ff/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 18:06:24 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 19:06:24 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dyrfZYsxM0Hh70uE9yddnvjXPGr_W4m6ZsohAgu2=a_mQ@mail.gmail.com>

   Perfectly logical. Thank you. My TD is set to 5? BTDC but it might
advance a little smoother at 10? BTDC. I will experiment. Smooth is the
goal.

   New parts for the TD distributor arrived today so rebuilding then
retuning the carbs tomorrow.

   Today I painted my work truck's replacement left front fender, but
another coat is needed. Yea, house-bound and a little stir crazy.

http://aubard.us/97_Nissan/20200401_135540.jpg

Rick


On Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 6:56 PM Richard Ewald <richard.ewald at gmail.com> wrote:

> It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a cylinder from when the spark
> ignites it.  The engine designers want the peak pressure to occur at
> between 5-10 ATDC.
> At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.
> So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, your base timing is 10 BTDC,
> if  you want  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
> If you look at tune up specs for non smog controlled engines, most have
> base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
> Now if you double the engine speed, it still take 3ms to burn, but to keep
> the max pressure at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
> You do eventually get to a point where no more advance will help.  That
> point varies with the engine design,  cam profile, combustion chamber
> design, headers etc.
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 5:55 AM Richard Lindsay via Mgs <
> mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello friends,
>>
>>    When one is a geek, one thinks of geeky things. I am a geek and this
>> house-bound morning I woke up thinking about ignition timing. Here are the
>> details.
>>
>>    We know that the charge (fuel plus air) in a cylinder doesn't burn
>> instantly, despite our perception to the contrary. Rather, it takes a
>> finite length of time from the occurance of the 'spark', the flame front to
>> cross the combustion chamber, and to raise the MEP (Mean Effective
>> Pressure) to a maximum - the point where it does the most work. But how
>> much time?
>>    Physics problems always start by listing the 'known' and the property
>> to 'find'. So in this case,
>>
>> KNOWN:
>>    Idle speed: 900rpm
>>    Idle timing advance: 4? BTDC
>>    Speed at maximum advance: 3500rpm
>>    Maximum timing advance: 32? BTDC
>>
>> FIND:
>>    Time from spark to MEP
>>
>>    The first thing one might know is that the goal at idle is not to
>> produce maximum power. In fact, at idle 100% of the available power is used
>> to overcome the friction and other forces that exist at idle speed. Stated
>> another way: Idle speed is the fastest the engine can achieve given the
>> available charge. That fact is evident (with carbureted engines) when one
>> notices that engine speed gradually increases, even for a fixed throttle
>> setting, as the engine warms and friction forces decrease. But back to the
>> problem.
>>
>>    Because the goal at idle is smooth running and progression off of idle
>> (e.g. speeding up), not maximum power, the calculated wavefront speed may
>> not be correct at idle. But let's see.
>>
>>    At idle speed, 900rpm in this MG TD example, the XPAG engine is
>> turning 900rpm or 900rpm / 60mps = 15rps (revolutions per second).
>>
>>    Distributor speed is 1/2 engine speed so at idle the distributor is
>> turning only 7.5 revolutions per second. But timing numbers are specified
>> in degrees of crank rotations so we will stick with 15rps.
>>
>>    We don't know how fast the flame front travels across the combustion
>> chamber but we do know that maximum work occurs when the piston is half way
>> down the cylinder. And we also know that work isn't an instantaneous
>> parameter so it must begin before the half way point and last past that
>> point. Lots of unknowns and theory doesn't always work in practice. But if
>> we use the average piston position at half-way down the bore, where most
>> work is most effective, and the MEP (Mean Effective Pressure), since Mean
>> is average, calculations begin.
>>
>>    A single revolution is 360? so half-way down the power stroke is 90?.
>> Add the idle spark timing of 4? BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) and we get
>> 94? of crank rotation from spark to MEP at half-way down. That's 94/360 or
>> about 0.26 of an engine revolution. And the engine is turning 15
>> revolutions per second or 67ms (milliseconds) per revolution. So 67 x 0.26
>> = 17ms from spark to MEP at half-way down the power stroke, at idle.
>>
>>    If we repeat the calculations for operating engine speed and at
>> maximum advance, we get 3500rpm / 60mps = 58rps (revolutions per second).
>> Maximum advance is 32? BTDC so 90? + 32? = 122?, spark to MEP or 122?/360?
>> = 0.34 of a revolution
>>
>>    58rps is 17ms/r so 17ms/r x 0.34r = 5.78ms from spark to MEP at
>> half-way down the power stroke. This is a more representative number than
>> the 17ms at idle. One might even divide the idle elapsed time minus the
>> optimal time across the strike's midpoint. Doing so would mean at idle, the
>> pressure at idle becomes most effective 5.6ms before half-way and for
>> another 5.6ms after midpoint. Interesting that the idle pressure
>> application time is about the same as the maximum pressure application
>> time, or is that circular logic?
>>
>>    Yes everything above is ripe with assumptions and perhaps even
>> apocryphal and resplendent with errors, but it is only 7am after all.
>>
>>    Anyone with extra house-bound time on their hands, please check my
>> maths and share your corrections, including the logic of the whole
>> experiment...or perhaps even why geeks think these ways!
>>
>> Rick
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200401/872e0f79/attachment.htm>

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Wed Apr  1 21:17:18 2020
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 23:17:18 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.67.1585797490.2961.mgs@autox.team.net>

Okay, let's see if anyone knows the answer to 
this one.  Why is it that "You do eventually get 
to a point where no more advance will help".  Why 
do we stop spark advance at ~32d BTDC at road 
speed, and keep the advance the same for all higher engine speeds?


At 07:56 PM 4/1/2020, Richard Ewald via Mgs wrote:
>It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a 
>cylinder from when the spark ignites it.?  The 
>engine designers? want the peak pressure to occur at between 5-10 ATDC.
>At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.? ?
>So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, 
>your base timing? is 10 BTDC, if?  you 
>want?  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
>If you look at tune up specs for non smog 
>controlled engines, most have base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
>Now if you double the engine speed, it still 
>take 3ms to burn, but to keep the max pressure 
>at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
>You do eventually? get to a point where no more 
>advance will help.?  That point varies with the 
>engine? design,?  cam profile, combustion chamber design, headers etc.?  ?
>Rick
>....


From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 17:18:53 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 18:18:53 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Simple things
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dz-ULWM=zdP0io92156BsV3__W=DvowD0vXxRddorPcYw@mail.gmail.com>

   I'm guessing I'm not alone in loving even the simple, if meticulous
parts of our grand hobby. See attached.

Rick
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/5f94d1db/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20200401_125515.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2031032 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/5f94d1db/attachment-0002.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20200402_102242.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2508127 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/5f94d1db/attachment-0003.jpg>

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Thu Apr  2 01:29:42 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:29:42 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031826.3A274A15FC@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <734CF9D429C345BC832077B8513B8D1D@paul>

'An' answer to those two:

Because eventually increasing advance will stop the piston going up, enough 
to stall the starter on low-compression engines from what I read.  On high 
compression you get massive pinking way before that.

32 degrees max may be something people with low-compression engines go by, 
but with high compression it has to be by whether it pinks at any 
combination of throttle opening revs and load.  Some MGB configurations had 
a max centrifugal of 36 degrees at 5000 rpm plus up to 24 degrees vacuum 
advance depending on throttle opening.  Others had a max centrifugal of 19 
degrees at 2200rpm plus up to 14 degrees of vacuum.  Some North American 
engines had the vacuum advance disabled if that was the only way they would 
get through the emissions tests.  Others only enabled vacuum advance in 4th 
gear.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

Okay, let's see if anyone knows the answer to
this one.  Why is it that "You do eventually get
to a point where no more advance will help".  Why
do we stop spark advance at ~32d BTDC at road
speed, and keep the advance the same for all higher engine speeds?


From rolindsay at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 03:41:19 2020
From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (rolindsay at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 04:41:19 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <20200402031822.4286BA160A@autox.team.net>
References: <58f79aed-0a27-4fd0-852b-a8eb2a95a822.ref@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <58f79aed-0a27-4fd0-852b-a8eb2a95a822@email.android.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/46374907/attachment.htm>

From rolindsay at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 03:41:19 2020
From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (rolindsay at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 04:41:19 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <20200402031822.4286BA160A@autox.team.net>
References: <58f79aed-0a27-4fd0-852b-a8eb2a95a822.ref@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <58f79aed-0a27-4fd0-852b-a8eb2a95a822@email.android.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/46374907/attachment-0001.htm>

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Apr  2 11:11:41 2020
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:11:41 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>

Well, it seems to me that if you advance the spark to a point on the compression stroke where the piston is still coming up, the expanding ignited mixture would be fighting the piston, and it would actually reduce power. I?m not sure if that is what you are talking about, though.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Apr 1, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Barney Gaylord via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Okay, let's see if anyone knows the answer to this one.  Why is it that "You do eventually get to a point where no more advance will help".  Why do we stop spark advance at ~32d BTDC at road speed, and keep the advance the same for all higher engine speeds?
> 
> 
> At 07:56 PM 4/1/2020, Richard Ewald via Mgs wrote:
>> It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a cylinder from when the spark ignites it.?  The engine designers? want the peak pressure to occur at between 5-10 ATDC.
>> At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.? ?
>> So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, your base timing? is 10 BTDC, if?  you want?  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
>> If you look at tune up specs for non smog controlled engines, most have base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
>> Now if you double the engine speed, it still take 3ms to burn, but to keep the max pressure at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
>> You do eventually? get to a point where no more advance will help.?  That point varies with the engine? design,?  cam profile, combustion chamber design, headers etc.?  ?
>> Rick
>> ....
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/0d10cf0e/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 12:24:01 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:24:01 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
 <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dzGAFvwZH_Rkk4L__baky6n52LxNhMygKPU80fxeHqbZg@mail.gmail.com>

Max that might be true if the ignition pressure from the combustion didn't
build so long after the spark...within reasonable limits.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 12:11 PM Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:

> Well, it seems to me that if you advance the spark to a point on the
> compression stroke where the piston is still coming up, the expanding
> ignited mixture would be fighting the piston, and it would actually reduce
> power. I?m not sure if that is what you are talking about, though.
>
> --
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB
>
> On Apr 1, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Barney Gaylord via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> Okay, let's see if anyone knows the answer to this one.  Why is it that
> "You do eventually get to a point where no more advance will help".  Why do
> we stop spark advance at ~32d BTDC at road speed, and keep the advance the
> same for all higher engine speeds?
>
>
> At 07:56 PM 4/1/2020, Richard Ewald via Mgs wrote:
>
> It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a cylinder from when the spark
> ignites it.?  The engine designers? want the peak pressure to occur at
> between 5-10 ATDC.
> At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.? ?
> So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, your base timing? is 10 BTDC,
> if?  you want?  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
> If you look at tune up specs for non smog controlled engines, most have
> base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
> Now if you double the engine speed, it still take 3ms to burn, but to keep
> the max pressure at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
> You do eventually? get to a point where no more advance will help.?  That
> point varies with the engine? design,?  cam profile, combustion chamber
> design, headers etc.?  ?
> Rick
> ....
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/e6cd7070/attachment.htm>

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Apr  2 12:33:38 2020
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:33:38 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dzGAFvwZH_Rkk4L__baky6n52LxNhMygKPU80fxeHqbZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
 <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
 <CAOc+-dzGAFvwZH_Rkk4L__baky6n52LxNhMygKPU80fxeHqbZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B17A1C7C-60BC-444E-9484-38F91C98AAF2@sonic.net>

Well, I mean, it would be true at some extreme ? for example, igniting the spark at the very beginning of the compression stroke. But I suspect Barney was getting at something else.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Apr 2, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Richard Lindsay <richardolindsay at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Max that might be true if the ignition pressure from the combustion didn't build so long after the spark...within reasonable limits.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 12:11 PM Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net <mailto:mvheim at sonic.net>> wrote:
> Well, it seems to me that if you advance the spark to a point on the compression stroke where the piston is still coming up, the expanding ignited mixture would be fighting the piston, and it would actually reduce power. I?m not sure if that is what you are talking about, though.
> 
> --
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB
> 
>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Barney Gaylord via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Okay, let's see if anyone knows the answer to this one.  Why is it that "You do eventually get to a point where no more advance will help".  Why do we stop spark advance at ~32d BTDC at road speed, and keep the advance the same for all higher engine speeds?
>> 
>> 
>> At 07:56 PM 4/1/2020, Richard Ewald via Mgs wrote:
>>> It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a cylinder from when the spark ignites it.?  The engine designers? want the peak pressure to occur at between 5-10 ATDC.
>>> At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.? ?
>>> So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, your base timing? is 10 BTDC, if?  you want?  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
>>> If you look at tune up specs for non smog controlled engines, most have base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
>>> Now if you double the engine speed, it still take 3ms to burn, but to keep the max pressure at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
>>> You do eventually? get to a point where no more advance will help.?  That point varies with the engine? design,?  cam profile, combustion chamber design, headers etc.?  ?
>>> Rick
>>> ....
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> 
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs <http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>> 
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net>
>> 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/6d1ce2e2/attachment.htm>

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:31:21 2020
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:31:21 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <B17A1C7C-60BC-444E-9484-38F91C98AAF2@sonic.net>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
 <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
 <CAOc+-dzGAFvwZH_Rkk4L__baky6n52LxNhMygKPU80fxeHqbZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <B17A1C7C-60BC-444E-9484-38F91C98AAF2@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CACOF-TrPycKndFF8Q5Dpnmmm=2-4yRyqgkdVCTAoCgSUiQ-o1w@mail.gmail.com>

Remember the intake valves stay open for a bit past BDC as the piston
starts up, also to get the mixture to go from flammable to flat out
explosive the charge has to be compressed.  so those factors tend to limit
how much effective timing you can have.
Going a little deeper when you are using a mechanical distributor with
weights there is only so much refinement you can get in your advance
curve.  Once you get into fully electronic ignition systems, there are
systems that have upward to 70 degrees of range from fully retard to full
advance (they may not use it in all applications, but the capability is
there in the electronics)
Rick

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:33 AM Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:

> Well, I mean, it would be true at some extreme ? for example, igniting the
> spark at the very beginning of the compression stroke. But I suspect Barney
> was getting at something else.
>
> --
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB
>
> On Apr 2, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Richard Lindsay <richardolindsay at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Max that might be true if the ignition pressure from the combustion didn't
> build so long after the spark...within reasonable limits.
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 12:11 PM Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, it seems to me that if you advance the spark to a point on the
>> compression stroke where the piston is still coming up, the expanding
>> ignited mixture would be fighting the piston, and it would actually reduce
>> power. I?m not sure if that is what you are talking about, though.
>>
>> --
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Barney Gaylord via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, let's see if anyone knows the answer to this one.  Why is it that
>> "You do eventually get to a point where no more advance will help".  Why do
>> we stop spark advance at ~32d BTDC at road speed, and keep the advance the
>> same for all higher engine speeds?
>>
>>
>> At 07:56 PM 4/1/2020, Richard Ewald via Mgs wrote:
>>
>> It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a cylinder from when the spark
>> ignites it.?  The engine designers? want the peak pressure to occur at
>> between 5-10 ATDC.
>> At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.? ?
>> So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, your base timing? is 10
>> BTDC, if?  you want?  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
>> If you look at tune up specs for non smog controlled engines, most have
>> base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
>> Now if you double the engine speed, it still take 3ms to burn, but to
>> keep the max pressure at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
>> You do eventually? get to a point where no more advance will help.?  That
>> point varies with the engine? design,?  cam profile, combustion chamber
>> design, headers etc.?  ?
>> Rick
>> ....
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/12c187b4/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:47:07 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 16:47:07 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <CACOF-TrPycKndFF8Q5Dpnmmm=2-4yRyqgkdVCTAoCgSUiQ-o1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
 <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
 <CAOc+-dzGAFvwZH_Rkk4L__baky6n52LxNhMygKPU80fxeHqbZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <B17A1C7C-60BC-444E-9484-38F91C98AAF2@sonic.net>
 <CACOF-TrPycKndFF8Q5Dpnmmm=2-4yRyqgkdVCTAoCgSUiQ-o1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dwZr8_KssgJt0em++7gUb60vNCFBo=wfzGr2j9i+88nLQ@mail.gmail.com>

As I wrote in the thread's original post, "I love dynamic systems!" Even
more fascinating when multi-dimensional.

R

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 4:31 PM Richard Ewald <richard.ewald at gmail.com> wrote:

> Remember the intake valves stay open for a bit past BDC as the piston
> starts up, also to get the mixture to go from flammable to flat out
> explosive the charge has to be compressed.  so those factors tend to limit
> how much effective timing you can have.
> Going a little deeper when you are using a mechanical distributor with
> weights there is only so much refinement you can get in your advance
> curve.  Once you get into fully electronic ignition systems, there are
> systems that have upward to 70 degrees of range from fully retard to full
> advance (they may not use it in all applications, but the capability is
> there in the electronics)
> Rick
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 11:33 AM Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, I mean, it would be true at some extreme ? for example, igniting
>> the spark at the very beginning of the compression stroke. But I suspect
>> Barney was getting at something else.
>>
>> --
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Richard Lindsay <richardolindsay at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Max that might be true if the ignition pressure from the combustion
>> didn't build so long after the spark...within reasonable limits.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 12:11 PM Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it seems to me that if you advance the spark to a point on the
>>> compression stroke where the piston is still coming up, the expanding
>>> ignited mixture would be fighting the piston, and it would actually reduce
>>> power. I?m not sure if that is what you are talking about, though.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Max Heim
>>> '66 MGB
>>>
>>> On Apr 1, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Barney Gaylord via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Okay, let's see if anyone knows the answer to this one.  Why is it that
>>> "You do eventually get to a point where no more advance will help".  Why do
>>> we stop spark advance at ~32d BTDC at road speed, and keep the advance the
>>> same for all higher engine speeds?
>>>
>>>
>>> At 07:56 PM 4/1/2020, Richard Ewald via Mgs wrote:
>>>
>>> It takes about 3ms to burn the fuel in a cylinder from when the spark
>>> ignites it.?  The engine designers? want the peak pressure to occur at
>>> between 5-10 ATDC.
>>> At idle speed 3ms is about 15 degrees.? ?
>>> So if you want your peak pressure at 5 ATDC, your base timing? is 10
>>> BTDC, if?  you want?  your peak pressure at 10 ATDC your timing is 5 BTDC.
>>> If you look at tune up specs for non smog controlled engines, most have
>>> base timing in the 5-10 BTDC range.
>>> Now if you double the engine speed, it still take 3ms to burn, but to
>>> keep the max pressure at 5-10 ATDC, you have to light the mixture sooner.
>>> You do eventually? get to a point where no more advance will help.?
>>>  That point varies with the engine? design,?  cam profile, combustion
>>> chamber design, headers etc.?  ?
>>> Rick
>>> ....
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200402/e45d4600/attachment.htm>

From dave at ranteer.com  Sat Apr  4 11:13:00 2020
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 12:13:00 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
Message-ID: <002301d60aa4$4b38b450$e1aa1cf0$@ranteer.com>

I am cleaning up this chassis (59), and I'd like to unbolt the armstrong
shock from the chassis so I can clean up and paint the chassis.  Its ok and
works fine, and I really don't want to pull the whole thing off.

 

Can I just pull off the bolts and work around it?  Any cautions? 

 

Thanks!

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200404/5f8b2ed3/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20200403_8.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 183390 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200404/5f8b2ed3/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20200403_9.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 218228 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200404/5f8b2ed3/attachment-0001.jpg>

From rrengineer.mike at att.net  Sat Apr  4 15:08:56 2020
From: rrengineer.mike at att.net (Michael MacLean)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 21:08:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
In-Reply-To: <002301d60aa4$4b38b450$e1aa1cf0$@ranteer.com>
References: <002301d60aa4$4b38b450$e1aa1cf0$@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <54039957.539445.1586034536946@mail.yahoo.com>

 Well except for the downward spring pressure on the lower A-Arm that is connected to the kingpin at the bottom.? The shock arms are connected to the top of the kingpin.? I hope you know where I am going here.? You need a workshop manual to safely take the front suspension apart to remove the shock.? Be warned, when you take the suspension apart you may find there will be more than you bargained for to put it back together when you find other bits worn or broken.? Just my 2 cents.Mike MacLean69 MGB GT60 Bugeye Sprite56 Austin Healey BN2 LeMans

    On Saturday, April 4, 2020, 10:14:26 AM PDT, dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 <!--#yiv7689130319 _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv7689130319 #yiv7689130319 p.yiv7689130319MsoNormal, #yiv7689130319 li.yiv7689130319MsoNormal, #yiv7689130319 div.yiv7689130319MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv7689130319 span.yiv7689130319EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv7689130319 .yiv7689130319MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv7689130319 div.yiv7689130319WordSection1 {}-->
I am cleaning up this chassis (59), and I?d like to unbolt the armstrong shock from the chassis so I can clean up and paint the chassis.? Its ok and works fine, and I really don?t want to pull the whole thing off.

 ?

Can I just pull off the bolts and work around it?? Any cautions? 

 ?

Thanks!
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation? $12.75

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rrengineer.mike at att.net
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200404/49b4210f/attachment.htm>

From lawrence.swift at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 16:18:16 2020
From: lawrence.swift at gmail.com (Team.net)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 18:18:16 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
In-Reply-To: <54039957.539445.1586034536946@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <002301d60aa4$4b38b450$e1aa1cf0$@ranteer.com>
 <54039957.539445.1586034536946@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4F99CA07-EAA0-4211-8DF5-CCAD0229A939@gmail.com>

Unless you are careful, very careful, it is a great way to lose some teeth.

> On Apr 4, 2020, at 5:08 PM, Michael MacLean via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Well except for the downward spring pressure on the lower A-Arm that is connected to the kingpin at the bottom.  The shock arms are connected to the top of the kingpin.  I hope you know where I am going here.  You need a workshop manual to safely take the front suspension apart to remove the shock.  Be warned, when you take the suspension apart you may find there will be more than you bargained for to put it back together when you find other bits worn or broken.  Just my 2 cents.
> Mike MacLean
> 69 MGB GT
> 60 Bugeye Sprite
> 56 Austin Healey BN2 LeMans
> 
> On Saturday, April 4, 2020, 10:14:26 AM PDT, dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I am cleaning up this chassis (59), and I?d like to unbolt the armstrong shock from the chassis so I can clean up and paint the chassis.  Its ok and works fine, and I really don?t want to pull the whole thing off.
> 
>  
> Can I just pull off the bolts and work around it?  Any cautions? 
> 
>  
> Thanks!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs? <http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs>http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rrengineer.mike at att.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rrengineer.mike at att.net>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs <http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lawrence.swift at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lawrence.swift at gmail.com>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200404/29e04e3c/attachment.htm>

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Sat Apr  4 17:29:07 2020
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric Russell)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:29:07 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1586023201.12406.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.1.1586023201.12406.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <f56ed994-86f8-cde3-5ee2-0c740699eced@mebtel.net>

Without the weight of the body & engine on the suspension - no. (not 
simply remove the bolts)

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

On 4/4/2020 2:00 PM, mgs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> I am cleaning up this chassis (59), and I'd like to unbolt the 
> armstrong shock from the chassis so I can clean up and paint the 
> chassis. Its ok and works fine, and I really don't want to pull the 
> whole thing off.
> Can I just pull off the bolts and work around it? Any cautions? 


From thgun at comporium.net  Sat Apr  4 17:31:15 2020
From: thgun at comporium.net (Thomas Gunderson)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:31:15 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] 1957 MGA STICK SHIFT
Message-ID: <55C87409-FE12-47D7-8542-6284C7438445@comporium.net>



Sent from my iPhone X

Does anyone know the threading for the stick shift knob?

Tom Gunderson
1957 MGA 1500 rst.


From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sun Apr  5 00:20:34 2020
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2020 02:20:34 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] 1957 MGA STICK SHIFT
In-Reply-To: <55C87409-FE12-47D7-8542-6284C7438445@comporium.net>
References: <55C87409-FE12-47D7-8542-6284C7438445@comporium.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.69.1586067653.2961.mgs@autox.team.net>


5/16-24-UNF


At 07:31 PM 4/4/2020, Thomas Gunderson via Mgs wrote:
>....
>Does anyone know the threading for the stick shift knob?
>
>Tom Gunderson
>1957 MGA 1500 rst.


From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Sun Apr  5 03:02:44 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 10:02:44 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
References: <002301d60aa4$4b38b450$e1aa1cf0$@ranteer.com>
 <54039957.539445.1586034536946@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2E8A335F5CB54D30A415829730B73A88@paul>

I like that, you might need more than one to prop the bottom of the king-pin up though :o)

It's really not that difficult, the manual covers it in two sentences.  To remove just the damper jack under the spring-pan until the damper arms come off the rebound rubber, then remove the upper link and unbolt the damper.  It also says to support the axle assembly to avoid straining the brake hose but that should be obvious anyway.  

If going any further than that i.e. removing the spring then you have to support the car safely on axle stands, so you can jack the spring pan down after removing the upper (or lower) link to remove all the tension from the spring.  That needs the engine and gearbox to be in the car of course to provide enough weight to compress the spring.  Without that some other means of compressing the spring will be needed.  

On springs with the shorter free height it may be possible to get away without compressing the spring as with the wheels hanging down they are nearly fully expanded anyway, and removing the bump and rebound rubber bracket will give you a bit more movement.  But you need to have released the tension some other way in the past to know that is possible, certainly don't go unbolting things just to see.

PaulH.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  You need a workshop manual to safely take the front suspension apart to remove the shock.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/fea34f3b/attachment.htm>

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Sun Apr  5 03:59:31 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 10:59:31 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
 <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <BBD111D734C54B04B4D63AB40FF12458@paul>

That's exactly what does happen, because ignition is anything from 10 degrees upwards BTDC.  It's a trade-off between how much power you lose by too much of the fuel burning while the piston is still coming up - over advanced, against how much you lose with fuel still burning far into the expansion stroke - retarded.  There is a sweet-spot, but that continually changes with rpm and  throttle opening, which is why we have centrifugal and vacuum advance.  Centrifugal increases the advance as the rpm increases and the likelihood of detonation decreases, vacuum advance backs off the timing as the throttle is opened and more mixture goes into the cylinder giving higher cylinder pressures, which increases the likelihood of detonation.

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message ----- 


  Well, it seems to me that if you advance the spark to a point on the compression stroke where the piston is still coming up, the expanding ignited mixture would be fighting the piston, and it would actually reduce power. I?m not sure if that is what you are talking about, though.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/fafe3d9c/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 05:54:21 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 06:54:21 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <BBD111D734C54B04B4D63AB40FF12458@paul>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
 <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
 <BBD111D734C54B04B4D63AB40FF12458@paul>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dwMKsj9DhS4ZVrM8THF7stnLwZYbuKSkeckgAEMzRgXbA@mail.gmail.com>

   Max, as Paul says, finding the sweet spot is the key and it's a moving
target! Take a look at the attached scan from Campbell's book on sports car
engines. Notice please the pressure curve and how it doesn't really rise
much at all until well after the spark alights the charge on fire - perhaps
only doubling cylinder pressure by TDC. So although lighting off the charge
before TDC would appear to reduce power, the negative effect is minimal
when compared to placing the six-fold pressure increase where it can do the
most work.
   Paul, *et al. *have astutely pointed out the counter-productive and even
damaging effects of pre-ignition and 'pinking', or 'pinging' as we say here
in the States. Both of these phenomena are potentially damaging to the
engine. And their occurence is a whole other topic - if somewhat allied to
timing. Here's just a teaser and stated at the limits of my knowledge.
   Pre-ignition is as the word describes, when the charge is ignited before
ignition by the spark. That can happen in high compression petrol engines
by dieseling. That is, ignition by the heat of compressing the charge
alone, or by some 'hot spot' within the combustion space. E.g. the plug's
tip or a glowing carbon buildup. Pinking is believed to be caused by the
'end gas' flash-burning all at once rather than progressing smoothly. It's
rumored to have gained its name from the sound it makes. Again, I am
paraphrasing words from Campbell, not claiming intimate knowledge.
   Suffice to say, so many poorly understood things are happening in a
running engine, it's no wonder that most parameters are set, or at least
fine tuned, by testing rather than modeling. Repeating: "Practice always
works in theory, but theory doesn't always work in practice."

   Thank you everyone for your questions and answers. Fascinating topic.

Rick

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020, 5:19 AM PaulHunt73 via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

> That's exactly what does happen, because ignition is anything from 10
> degrees upwards BTDC.  It's a trade-off between how much power you lose by
> too much of the fuel burning while the piston is still coming up - over
> advanced, against how much you lose with fuel still burning far into the
> expansion stroke - retarded.  There is a sweet-spot, but that continually
> changes with rpm and  throttle opening, which is why we have centrifugal
> and vacuum advance.  Centrifugal increases the advance as the rpm
> increases and the likelihood of detonation decreases, vacuum advance backs
> off the timing as the throttle is opened and more mixture goes into the
> cylinder giving higher cylinder pressures, which increases the likelihood
> of detonation.
>
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Well, it seems to me that if you advance the spark to a point on the
> compression stroke where the piston is still coming up, the expanding
> ignited mixture would be fighting the piston, and it would actually reduce
> power. I?m not sure if that is what you are talking about, though.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay at gmail.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/b1b2b7a9/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20200328_113435.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1001995 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/b1b2b7a9/attachment.jpg>

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sun Apr  5 07:42:36 2020
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:42:36 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
Message-ID: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>

Dear list,

 

One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that's an MOT failure.

Now it can be easily be replaced.

So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping
characters?

I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.

 

Cheers,

Hans

 

71 BGT 

 

 

 



-- 
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/31c24c03/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 08:10:45 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 09:10:45 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Engine maths...and spare time
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dwMKsj9DhS4ZVrM8THF7stnLwZYbuKSkeckgAEMzRgXbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOc+-dyyUjBTST_+G=UurmYec5HepQdd+7W+WhCDagQQci9Peg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOF-TrfrA=WB6XoMaoKKUem9uOWM1KmruGHu87paVQLj7OnMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200402031825.EF2A4A161A@autox.team.net>
 <DDB929C0-20A0-43E1-AD10-64ECA5D318A9@sonic.net>
 <BBD111D734C54B04B4D63AB40FF12458@paul>
 <CAOc+-dwMKsj9DhS4ZVrM8THF7stnLwZYbuKSkeckgAEMzRgXbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dxasGEeg6G+EFh61OkM0ktcH0VpADGaOSe9FJk1Wbtf9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hey friends,
   Over on the Triumph TR3a group, my friend Randall posted a picture of a
TR3 piston, damaged by 'knock'. I thought I would share it here. See
attached.

R

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020, 6:54 AM Richard Lindsay <richardolindsay at gmail.com>
wrote:

>    Max, as Paul says, finding the sweet spot is the key and it's a moving
> target! Take a look at the attached scan from Campbell's book on sports car
> engines. Notice please the pressure curve and how it doesn't really rise
> much at all until well after the spark alights the charge on fire - perhaps
> only doubling cylinder pressure by TDC. So although lighting off the charge
> before TDC would appear to reduce power, the negative effect is minimal
> when compared to placing the six-fold pressure increase where it can do the
> most work.
>    Paul, *et al. *have astutely pointed out the counter-productive and
> even damaging effects of pre-ignition and 'pinking', or 'pinging' as we say
> here in the States. Both of these phenomena are potentially damaging to the
> engine. And their occurence is a whole other topic - if somewhat allied to
> timing. Here's just a teaser and stated at the limits of my knowledge.
>    Pre-ignition is as the word describes, when the charge is ignited
> before ignition by the spark. That can happen in high compression petrol
> engines by dieseling. That is, ignition by the heat of compressing the
> charge alone, or by some 'hot spot' within the combustion space. E.g. the
> plug's tip or a glowing carbon buildup. Pinking is believed to be caused by
> the 'end gas' flash-burning all at once rather than progressing smoothly.
> It's rumored to have gained its name from the sound it makes. Again, I am
> paraphrasing words from Campbell, not claiming intimate knowledge.
>    Suffice to say, so many poorly understood things are happening in a
> running engine, it's no wonder that most parameters are set, or at least
> fine tuned, by testing rather than modeling. Repeating: "Practice always
> works in theory, but theory doesn't always work in practice."
>
>    Thank you everyone for your questions and answers. Fascinating topic.
>
> Rick
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/1feb5ff9/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Broken TR3 piston cropped.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 15873 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/1feb5ff9/attachment.jpe>

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Sun Apr  5 08:06:36 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:06:36 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
References: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <46EB2AAAF43F45CE9CA8332B336AE233@paul>

I've only ever replaced them singly - as long as they are replaced with the same type.  Unlike telescopics which altered the damping as they aged, and had to be (expensively!  Which is why I went back to lever-arms) replaced as a pair, in my experience the lever-arms give consistent damping - while the oil lasts.

PaulH.
   
  One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that's an MOT failure.

  Now it can be easily be replaced.

  So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping characters?

  I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/3415c056/attachment.htm>

From palte at gmx.net  Sun Apr  5 08:39:01 2020
From: palte at gmx.net (palte)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2020 16:39:01 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>

Yes, both units, definitely!Don't even consider using recon units,a waste of money.GreetingsBertVerzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> Datum: 05-04-20  15:42  (GMT+01:00) Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber Dear list,?One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that?s an MOT failure.Now it can be easily be replaced.So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping characters?I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.?Cheers,Hans?71 BGT ??? 
	
      
		Virusvrij. www.avast.com 		
	

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/585fd81c/attachment.htm>

From mgbobh at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 09:23:56 2020
From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 11:23:56 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>
References: <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <F75FF11A-3101-4B73-ACD1-C818BB895F03@gmail.com>

    My experience, with rebuilts from World Wide, Peter Caldwell, has been that all eight he has rebuilt have been excellent.  Other rebuilders do not have such a reputation.
Bob


> On Apr 5, 2020, at 10:39 AM, palte via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Yes, both units, definitely!
> 
> Don't even consider using recon units,
> a waste of money.
> 
> Greetings
> Bert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
> 
> 
> -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
> Van: Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Datum: 05-04-20 15:42 (GMT+01:00)
> Aan: mgs at autox.team.net
> Onderwerp: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
> 
> Dear list,
> 
>  
> 
> One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that?s an MOT failure.
> 
> Now it can be easily be replaced.
> 
> So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping characters?
> 
> I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Hans
> 
>  
> 
> 71 BGT
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 	Virusvrij. www.avast.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/1cca8605/attachment.htm>

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Sun Apr  5 11:01:46 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 18:01:46 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
References: <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <1B1D8EAD24724AFEBD93735DCD9F1D97@paul>

Another point on which we disagree.  I've only had one unit that failed what I would call prematurely, one car 32 years, another 28 years.
  ----- Original Message ----- 


  Yes, both units, definitely!


  Don't even consider using recon units,
  a waste of money.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/c1f534a6/attachment.htm>

From paul at ece.rochester.edu  Sun Apr  5 11:47:29 2020
From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Osborne, Paul)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 17:47:29 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <1B1D8EAD24724AFEBD93735DCD9F1D97@paul>
References: <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>
 <1B1D8EAD24724AFEBD93735DCD9F1D97@paul>
Message-ID: <B14D0EDF-7C1F-45C5-82C5-C1AB434B123E@ur.rochester.edu>

I have owned my 74 since new.  On my 3rd set of fronts and my second set of rears.  Have no problems with rebuilds ,  this only my
experience.

paul


On Apr 5, 2020, at 1:01 PM, PaulHunt73 via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:

Another point on which we disagree.  I've only had one unit that failed what I would call prematurely, one car 32 years, another 28 years.
----- Original Message -----

Yes, both units, definitely!

Don't even consider using recon units,
a waste of money.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
Donate: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_donate.html&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=mL4itCeb4oasYHNykfdg_2QG4nyVViWsfhgSd4PBM7Q&s=WEOy5C379itS6eT1Z7-RoB8iTavsK4RYkxWyAi6ufcs&e=
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

Archive: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_pipermail_mgs&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=mL4itCeb4oasYHNykfdg_2QG4nyVViWsfhgSd4PBM7Q&s=uH6jF9dwiemRXG8P81OFKTxI4XSJzEdZO8ugRS0MKpM&e=  https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_archive&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=mL4itCeb4oasYHNykfdg_2QG4nyVViWsfhgSd4PBM7Q&s=bqTiVXILhAvjZFtLmwa-ryczN4wYCP52f8EtmgnE-9c&e=

Unsubscribe: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_mailman_options_mgs_paul-40ece.rochester.edu&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=mL4itCeb4oasYHNykfdg_2QG4nyVViWsfhgSd4PBM7Q&s=S33aYBeK3YKmab3AbObbenrdQuCNmMLH1hJ0oO_76vk&e=

Paul Osborne
Department of Electrical and Computer Eng
University of Rochester
201 Hopeman Building RC
Rochester NY 14627
   585-275-5226





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/63f8f5a6/attachment.htm>

From mvheim at sonic.net  Sun Apr  5 12:22:58 2020
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 11:22:58 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <F75FF11A-3101-4B73-ACD1-C818BB895F03@gmail.com>
References: <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>
 <F75FF11A-3101-4B73-ACD1-C818BB895F03@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EC72F558-31D4-4DDD-AE31-67380AF0CDCC@sonic.net>

I agree with Robert. Peter?s units are first-rate.

Also, the Armstrong dampers are designed to be maintained and rebuilt, unlike the disposable telescopic shocks.


--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Apr 5, 2020, at 8:23 AM, Robert's New iPad via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
>     My experience, with rebuilts from World Wide, Peter Caldwell, has been that all eight he has rebuilt have been excellent.  Other rebuilders do not have such a reputation.
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Apr 5, 2020, at 10:39 AM, palte via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, both units, definitely!
>> 
>> Don't even consider using recon units,
>> a waste of money.
>> 
>> Greetings
>> Bert
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
>> Van: Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> 
>> Datum: 05-04-20 15:42 (GMT+01:00)
>> Aan: mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>
>> Onderwerp: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
>> 
>> Dear list,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that?s an MOT failure.
>> 
>> Now it can be easily be replaced.
>> 
>> So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping characters?
>> 
>> I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Hans
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 71 BGT 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virusvrij. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://1/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>_______________________________________________
>> 
>> Mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> 
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs <http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>> 
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs <http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/507d8fb7/attachment.htm>

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sun Apr  5 14:16:01 2020
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:16:01 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <46EB2AAAF43F45CE9CA8332B336AE233@paul>
References: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>
 <46EB2AAAF43F45CE9CA8332B336AE233@paul>
Message-ID: <007c01d60b87$06e6fc60$14b4f520$@planet.nl>

Thank you Paul,

 

So I've the choice of new or a refurbished one.

What would be the most economical?

As I drive not much, I'd opt for refurbished.

 

Cheers,

Hans

 

Van: PaulHunt73 [mailto:paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 april 2020 16:07
Aan: Hans Duinhoven; mgs at autox.team.net
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber

 

I've only ever replaced them singly - as long as they are replaced with the
same type.  Unlike telescopics which altered the damping as they aged, and
had to be (expensively!  Which is why I went back to lever-arms) replaced as
a pair, in my experience the lever-arms give consistent damping - while the
oil lasts.

 

PaulH.

 

One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that's an MOT failure.

Now it can be easily be replaced.

So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping
characters?

I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.



-- 
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/13936699/attachment.htm>

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sun Apr  5 14:17:05 2020
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:17:05 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>
References: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>
 <1N4hzj-1jDQyp2Wd5-011gSJ@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <008101d60b87$2cc189a0$86449ce0$@planet.nl>

Thank you for the advise Bert!

 

Regards,

Hans

 

 

Van: palte [mailto:palte at gmx.net] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 april 2020 16:39
Aan: Hans Duinhoven
CC: mgs at autox.team.net
Onderwerp: RE: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber

 

Yes, both units, definitely!

 

Don't even consider using recon units,

a waste of money.

 

Greetings

Bert

 

 

 

 

Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.

 

 

-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------

Van: Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> 

Datum: 05-04-20 15:42 (GMT+01:00) 

Aan: mgs at autox.team.net 

Onderwerp: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber 

 

Dear list,

 

One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that?s an MOT failure.

Now it can be easily be replaced.

So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping characters?

I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.

 

Cheers,

Hans

 

71 BGT 

 

 

 

 


 <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 

Virusvrij.  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avast.com 

 



-- 
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/00a6b896/attachment.htm>

From mgbobh at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 16:18:29 2020
From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 18:18:29 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <007c01d60b87$06e6fc60$14b4f520$@planet.nl>
References: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>
 <46EB2AAAF43F45CE9CA8332B336AE233@paul>
 <007c01d60b87$06e6fc60$14b4f520$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <04702685-7D4F-4EDF-83D8-61265D081818@gmail.com>

Hans,
   In USA, I would recommend rebuilt/refurbished one, from World Wide, as it will be at least as it was when new and probably as good or better than a new one made today.
  I do not know of rebuilders in the Netherlands or EU, though there must be some. 
Bob


> On Apr 5, 2020, at 4:16 PM, Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Paul,
>  
> So I?ve the choice of new or a refurbished one.
> What would be the most economical?
> As I drive not much, I?d opt for refurbished.
>  
> Cheers,
> Hans
>  
> Van: PaulHunt73 [mailto:paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com] 
> Verzonden: zondag 5 april 2020 16:07
> Aan: Hans Duinhoven; mgs at autox.team.net
> Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
>  
> I've only ever replaced them singly - as long as they are replaced with the same type.  Unlike telescopics which altered the damping as they aged, and had to be (expensively!  Which is why I went back to lever-arms) replaced as a pair, in my experience the lever-arms give consistent damping - while the oil lasts.
>  
> PaulH.
>  
> One of the rear shock absorbers is leaking, so that?s an MOT failure.
> Now it can be easily be replaced.
> So my question is, should I replace both sides because of the damping characters?
> I drive rarely, so basically it is not wearing out.
> 
> 	Virusvrij. www.avast.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200405/bcf37924/attachment.htm>

From philip.s.jones at comcast.net  Sun Apr  5 17:08:43 2020
From: philip.s.jones at comcast.net (philip s jones)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 16:08:43 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
Message-ID: <E4B48BF9-81E1-4B16-A705-00FCDC561606@comcast.net>

Serendipity!  It just so happened that I had planned to be in the garage today, replacing a front shock on my ?72 GT.  I think the issue I had noticed was actually caused by a missing bolt on the front anti-roll bar; but I?m going ahead with the shock replacement since it?s here and paid for.

I noticed, during disassembly, that the manual calls for a spring washer under the castellated nut on the pin that attaches the shock A-arm to the kingpin.  (If I have the terminology correct).  My car was missing that spring washer.

Is that a reason for concern?  Could it be effectively replaced with a flat washer?  I couldn?t identify an item number for it in the Moss catalogue  . . .

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread, especially Paul Hunt.  And thanks in advance for your responses!

Phil

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Mon Apr  6 01:30:43 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 08:30:43 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
References: <E4B48BF9-81E1-4B16-A705-00FCDC561606@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <248A7F28A2E04AB7BB08AA46CBE5E38A@paul>

That nut should be a low-profile, in order to fit the split-pin through the 
hole in the special bolt. It's possible the spring washer was left off if 
the nut was too tall to fit that pin.  If the split-pin was fitted then the 
nut wasn't going anywhere regardless of the missing spring washer.

You have to be careful with replacement kits for that special bolt, I've had 
one where they supplied a Nyloc and the end of the bolt barely passed all 
the way through the nylon section, whereas at least three threads are 
supposed to be protruding.  Fortunately I had another low-profile nut to 
hand.

For some reason Moss.com doesn't show a washer with the nut (33) in the main 
diagram https://mossmotors.com/mgb/suspension-steering/front-suspension-5, 
but they do with the repair kit 32.  Moss Europe do show it in the main 
diagram, 17.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- >
> I noticed, during disassembly, that the manual calls for a spring washer 
> under the castellated nut on the pin that attaches the shock A-arm to the 
> kingpin.  (If I have the terminology correct).  My car was missing that 
> spring washer.
>
> Is that a reason for concern?  Could it be effectively replaced with a 
> flat washer?  I couldn?t identify an item number for it in the Moss 
> catalogue  . . .


From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Mon Apr  6 01:16:52 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 08:16:52 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
References: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>
 <46EB2AAAF43F45CE9CA8332B336AE233@paul>
 <007c01d60b87$06e6fc60$14b4f520$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <293B65492AB84FADBB96856B0719FF75@paul>

Refurbished every time, regardless of mileage.

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
   
  So I've the choice of new or a refurbished one.

  What would be the most economical?

  As I drive not much, I'd opt for refurbished.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200406/1785bde9/attachment.htm>

From barrob at bell.net  Mon Apr  6 07:09:43 2020
From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 09:09:43 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] armstrong front shock
In-Reply-To: <E4B48BF9-81E1-4B16-A705-00FCDC561606@comcast.net>
References: <E4B48BF9-81E1-4B16-A705-00FCDC561606@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6f35f5bc-654b-bc86-985f-53c33ee68c05@bell.net>

Hello Phil,

Unless you /really/ know your stuff follow the manual to the bitter end !!!!

Barrie

On 4/5/2020 7:08 PM, philip s jones via Mgs wrote:
> Serendipity!  It just so happened that I had planned to be in the garage today, replacing a front shock on my ?72 GT.  I think the issue I had noticed was actually caused by a missing bolt on the front anti-roll bar; but I?m going ahead with the shock replacement since it?s here and paid for.
>
> I noticed, during disassembly, that the manual calls for a spring washer under the castellated nut on the pin that attaches the shock A-arm to the kingpin.  (If I have the terminology correct).  My car was missing that spring washer.
>
> Is that a reason for concern?  Could it be effectively replaced with a flat washer?  I couldn?t identify an item number for it in the Moss catalogue  . . .
>
> Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread, especially Paul Hunt.  And thanks in advance for your responses!
>
> Phil
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200406/fa66d7cf/attachment.htm>

From palte at gmx.net  Wed Apr  8 03:28:08 2020
From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:28:08 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <dd20c71f-107e-8613-7ab7-6a5ed64dcd70@gmx.net>
References: <dd20c71f-107e-8613-7ab7-6a5ed64dcd70@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <deea0444-f96e-96c1-f396-ceae0cfb5633@gmx.net>


Refurbished and refurbished may mean two totally different things.


At a time, I opted for two refurbished shocks, from a well established
supplier in Britain.

The tapered bore was elongated and damaged, the mounting holes were
damaged too.

It could clearly be seen that, at some time in the past, a BFH had been
released on these shocks.


I had similar experiences with refurbished alternators? (two times;
different cars).

It was clear to me that I can do a better job myself (as I did the next
time, actually).


No more refurbished components for me!


Bert

70 MGB


SA4BRL

PA0LPS





From rrengineer.mike at att.net  Wed Apr  8 14:01:47 2020
From: rrengineer.mike at att.net (Michael MacLean)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 20:01:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <deea0444-f96e-96c1-f396-ceae0cfb5633@gmx.net>
References: <dd20c71f-107e-8613-7ab7-6a5ed64dcd70@gmx.net>
 <deea0444-f96e-96c1-f396-ceae0cfb5633@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <1018863139.2735899.1586376107379@mail.yahoo.com>

 You can't do better than rebuilt shocks from Peter at WorldWide Auto in Wisconsin.? His rebuilds are superior to any refurbishment or rebuild anywhere. He guarantees them not to leak.? He sleeves the shaft and puts a better seal in the body.? You never have to "top them off" again.? All for very reasonable prices.? Peter rebuilt the shocks for my Bugeye and my Austin Healey BN2.? I can attest to these "rebuilds".? I would say you are better off than NOS shocks.? No financial interest, just a very satisfied customer.? He also sells British car parts too.
Mike MacLean69 MGB GT60 Bugeye56 Austin Healey BN2 LeMans

World Wide Auto Parts of Madison

| 
| 
|  | 
World Wide Auto Parts of Madison

New and remanufactured parts for import vehicles. New or old, foreign or domestic assembly.
 |

 |

 |



    On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 2:28:15 AM PDT, Bert Palte via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 
Refurbished and refurbished may mean two totally different things.


At a time, I opted for two refurbished shocks, from a well established
supplier in Britain.

The tapered bore was elongated and damaged, the mounting holes were
damaged too.

It could clearly be seen that, at some time in the past, a BFH had been
released on these shocks.


I had similar experiences with refurbished alternators? (two times;
different cars).

It was clear to me that I can do a better job myself (as I did the next
time, actually).


No more refurbished components for me!


Bert

70 MGB


SA4BRL

PA0LPS




_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation? $12.75

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rrengineer.mike at att.net
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200408/9db1117c/attachment.htm>

From palte at gmx.net  Mon Apr  6 01:54:44 2020
From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 09:54:44 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Rear shock absorber
In-Reply-To: <293B65492AB84FADBB96856B0719FF75@paul>
References: <001e01d60b50$11116450$33342cf0$@planet.nl>
 <46EB2AAAF43F45CE9CA8332B336AE233@paul>
 <007c01d60b87$06e6fc60$14b4f520$@planet.nl>
 <293B65492AB84FADBB96856B0719FF75@paul>
Message-ID: <dd20c71f-107e-8613-7ab7-6a5ed64dcd70@gmx.net>


Refurbished and refurbished may mean two totally different things.


At a time, I opted for two refurbished shocks, from a well established
supplier in Britain.

The tapered bore was elongated and damaged, the mounting holes were
damaged too.

It could clearly be seen that, at some time in the past, a BFH had been
released on these shocks.


I had similar experiences with refurbished alternators? (two times;
different cars).

It was clear to me that I can do a better job myself (as I did the next
time, actually).


No more refurbished components for me!


Bert

70 MGB


SA4BRL

PA0LPS





Op 6-4-2020 om 09:16 schreef PaulHunt73 via Mgs:
> Refurbished every time, regardless of mileage.
> PaulH.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>
>     So I?ve the choice of new or a refurbished one.
>
>     What would be the most economical?
>
>     As I drive not much, I?d opt for refurbished.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte at gmx.net
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200406/a7a5e4e3/attachment.htm>

From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Apr 11 07:15:04 2020
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:15:04 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
Message-ID: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>

April 11th.? As many of you know, the domain team.net was officially 
registered on April 11, 1991, by the late Bill Caloccia.? I have been 
managing the mailing lists on autox.team.net since then, actually for a 
while before that.? I took over? from Jim Muller, who took over from 
Dale Cook, and I wish I had archives of those first few years.? Actually 
I may have some in my office, on 1/4 inch tape cassettes.? Every now and 
then I consider trying to revive some of the old HP-UX boxes I have to 
see if I can still read any of those tapes.? Maybe someday.

Anyway, in the beginning I was routing everything through the servers at 
the University of Utah Computer Science Department, where I was 
employed.? When my fellow sys admins started noticing just how much 
network traffic there was on a certain box, my boss strongly suggested I 
make other arrangements.? So I went about getting a network connection 
at home.? Back then, it was not that easy, or cheap.? And as I recall, 
the first dedicated Team Net server was an HP box with one of the first 
100+ megahertz CPUs, and even with a deal through HP, who worked closely 
with the U in those days the system set me back about $2,500.? Hardware 
has improved since then.? And that money didn't all come out of my 
pocket, I initiated a fund drive among the list members and got a great 
response.? Back then it was all checks in the mail, and I mailed a thank 
you postcard to every contributor, or at least most of them, no doubt I 
missed a few.? And for some time there was an annual fund drive to cover 
the rather high cost of having sufficient bandwidth from my house.

So here it is 29 and just everybody has fast network available to 
them.?? I dropped the fund drives some years back, though folks do 
continue to contribute to the cause.? Now a few clicks in Paypal can 
take care of it, though some still prefer to send checks. Yep, things 
are different now.? And with the Covid-19 pandemic, a LOT different.? 
But the Team Net mailing lists are still chugging along, providing those 
spending more time at home a bit of distraction, entertainment or 
education as we keep our beloved vehicles rolling along the roads.

I plan to keep it going as long as I can, who knows how many years I 
have left.? April 11th is also my birthday, 66 this year, and I 
certainly won't live forever.? And I fear that when I die, Team Net will 
die.? Sigh.

But for now, enjoy and stay healthy.

mjb.



From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 07:43:56 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:43:56 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dz5ncb8F9RkM5Zqxek2bAKy4Z+Qz3HnYhpJMHmAfQN4tA@mail.gmail.com>

   Thank you Mark, for the flashback! I connected to autox.team.net almost
30 years ago so I must have been one of your earliest participants! I have
come and gone a few times since those early days, just as various cars have
come and gone.
   My portal was a Sun Microsystems UNIX box from my office at Amoco
Research. Reading that team.net was registered in 1991, that all fits. I
transferred to the rock physics laboratory at Amoco Research in 1988. By
1991, I was writing code (fortran then C) on the Sun UNIX platform. We had
a graphics package but not a GUI builder, *per se.*. All graphics had to be
painted onto the screen pallet. UNIRAS, I seem to remember it being called.
User choices were identified by cursor location detection when the mouse
was 'clicked'. State of the 1990s art!

   Again, thanks for the story and for the support!

Rick, in Houston, and heading to PayPal

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 8:16 AM Mark J Bradakis via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> April 11th.  As many of you know, the domain team.net was officially
> registered on April 11, 1991, by the late Bill Caloccia.  I have been
> managing the mailing lists on autox.team.net since then, actually for a
> while before that.  I took over  from Jim Muller, who took over from
> Dale Cook, and I wish I had archives of those first few years.  Actually
> I may have some in my office, on 1/4 inch tape cassettes.  Every now and
> then I consider trying to revive some of the old HP-UX boxes I have to
> see if I can still read any of those tapes.  Maybe someday.
>
> Anyway, in the beginning I was routing everything through the servers at
> the University of Utah Computer Science Department, where I was
> employed.  When my fellow sys admins started noticing just how much
> network traffic there was on a certain box, my boss strongly suggested I
> make other arrangements.  So I went about getting a network connection
> at home.  Back then, it was not that easy, or cheap.  And as I recall,
> the first dedicated Team Net server was an HP box with one of the first
> 100+ megahertz CPUs, and even with a deal through HP, who worked closely
> with the U in those days the system set me back about $2,500.  Hardware
> has improved since then.  And that money didn't all come out of my
> pocket, I initiated a fund drive among the list members and got a great
> response.  Back then it was all checks in the mail, and I mailed a thank
> you postcard to every contributor, or at least most of them, no doubt I
> missed a few.  And for some time there was an annual fund drive to cover
> the rather high cost of having sufficient bandwidth from my house.
>
> So here it is 29 and just everybody has fast network available to
> them.   I dropped the fund drives some years back, though folks do
> continue to contribute to the cause.  Now a few clicks in Paypal can
> take care of it, though some still prefer to send checks. Yep, things
> are different now.  And with the Covid-19 pandemic, a LOT different.
> But the Team Net mailing lists are still chugging along, providing those
> spending more time at home a bit of distraction, entertainment or
> education as we keep our beloved vehicles rolling along the roads.
>
> I plan to keep it going as long as I can, who knows how many years I
> have left.  April 11th is also my birthday, 66 this year, and I
> certainly won't live forever.  And I fear that when I die, Team Net will
> die.  Sigh.
>
> But for now, enjoy and stay healthy.
>
> mjb.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay at gmail.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200411/a214a5e6/attachment.htm>

From barrob at bell.net  Sat Apr 11 13:11:36 2020
From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:11:36 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <c51903c1-aa34-6c93-69cf-9b02983177f2@bell.net>

Hello Mark,

You sound a little like me.?? I started the Aston Martin Feltham Club 
and financed it myself.? It grew to a massive (ha ha) 152 members but 
have done a lot of work such as having N/A parts made and newsletters.? 
Despite all efforts I cannot get someone to take over and am just easing 
members to take some of the workload with a small amount of success.??? 
But, like you, succession is tough - but, hey Mark, you are only 
66.........I am 86 !!!

Cheers and all the very best to you youngster - from one of your big fans
Barrie
Chairman
Aston Martin Feltham Club
www.AMFClub.com


On 4/11/2020 9:15 AM, Mark J Bradakis via Mgs wrote:
> April 11th.? As many of you know, the domain team.net was officially 
> registered on April 11, 1991, by the late Bill Caloccia.? I have been 
> managing the mailing lists on autox.team.net since then, actually for 
> a while before that.? I took over? from Jim Muller, who took over from 
> Dale Cook, and I wish I had archives of those first few years.? 
> Actually I may have some in my office, on 1/4 inch tape cassettes.? 
> Every now and then I consider trying to revive some of the old HP-UX 
> boxes I have to see if I can still read any of those tapes.? Maybe 
> someday.
>
> Anyway, in the beginning I was routing everything through the servers 
> at the University of Utah Computer Science Department, where I was 
> employed.? When my fellow sys admins started noticing just how much 
> network traffic there was on a certain box, my boss strongly suggested 
> I make other arrangements.? So I went about getting a network 
> connection at home.? Back then, it was not that easy, or cheap.? And 
> as I recall, the first dedicated Team Net server was an HP box with 
> one of the first 100+ megahertz CPUs, and even with a deal through HP, 
> who worked closely with the U in those days the system set me back 
> about $2,500.? Hardware has improved since then.? And that money 
> didn't all come out of my pocket, I initiated a fund drive among the 
> list members and got a great response.? Back then it was all checks in 
> the mail, and I mailed a thank you postcard to every contributor, or 
> at least most of them, no doubt I missed a few.? And for some time 
> there was an annual fund drive to cover the rather high cost of having 
> sufficient bandwidth from my house.
>
> So here it is 29 and just everybody has fast network available to 
> them.?? I dropped the fund drives some years back, though folks do 
> continue to contribute to the cause.? Now a few clicks in Paypal can 
> take care of it, though some still prefer to send checks. Yep, things 
> are different now.? And with the Covid-19 pandemic, a LOT different.? 
> But the Team Net mailing lists are still chugging along, providing 
> those spending more time at home a bit of distraction, entertainment 
> or education as we keep our beloved vehicles rolling along the roads.
>
> I plan to keep it going as long as I can, who knows how many years I 
> have left.? April 11th is also my birthday, 66 this year, and I 
> certainly won't live forever.? And I fear that when I die, Team Net 
> will die.? Sigh.
>
> But for now, enjoy and stay healthy.
>
> mjb.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation? $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200411/c1f379e1/attachment.htm>

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sat Apr 11 15:27:58 2020
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 23:27:58 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>

Thank you Mark for all these years.
I tuned in in the year 1993.
I worked till mid 1991 at Digital Equipment, where there was a kind of topic pool (Vogon News), where classic cars were one of the topics.
Till 1993 I was able to keep using via a kind of backdoor.
So when that became impossible, I was advised to switch over to the mgs list.
The list gave lots of advise messages and being active with my MG I became experienced enough to give advise as well.
The list also enabled three meetings with fellow listers:
In January 2000 at the Longfellow Wayside Inn https://www.wayside.org/ 
See http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm 
Later in May 2006 we met again - http://www.ttalk.info/hans2.htm 
In February 2011 I went to Colorado Springs - no pictures on the web regrettably.
But the meeting with an MG lister and his friends was great.
We had a great tour through the Garden of the Gods https://www.gardenofgods.com/ - an amazing place to be!
So the list has been a catalyst for collecting knowledge and friends!

Hope the list may go on for a long time still!

Cheers Mark!
Hans
'71 BGT NRG w/w no o/d


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] Namens Mark J Bradakis via Mgs
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 april 2020 15:15
Aan: mgs at autox.team.net
Onderwerp: [Mgs] Birthday

April 11th.  As many of you know, the domain team.net was officially 
registered on April 11, 1991, by the late Bill Caloccia.  I have been 
managing the mailing lists on autox.team.net since then, actually for a 
while before that.  I took over  from Jim Muller, who took over from 
Dale Cook, and I wish I had archives of those first few years.  Actually 
I may have some in my office, on 1/4 inch tape cassettes.  Every now and 
then I consider trying to revive some of the old HP-UX boxes I have to 
see if I can still read any of those tapes.  Maybe someday.

Anyway, in the beginning I was routing everything through the servers at 
the University of Utah Computer Science Department, where I was 
employed.  When my fellow sys admins started noticing just how much 
network traffic there was on a certain box, my boss strongly suggested I 
make other arrangements.  So I went about getting a network connection 
at home.  Back then, it was not that easy, or cheap.  And as I recall, 
the first dedicated Team Net server was an HP box with one of the first 
100+ megahertz CPUs, and even with a deal through HP, who worked closely 
with the U in those days the system set me back about $2,500.  Hardware 
has improved since then.  And that money didn't all come out of my 
pocket, I initiated a fund drive among the list members and got a great 
response.  Back then it was all checks in the mail, and I mailed a thank 
you postcard to every contributor, or at least most of them, no doubt I 
missed a few.  And for some time there was an annual fund drive to cover 
the rather high cost of having sufficient bandwidth from my house.

So here it is 29 and just everybody has fast network available to 
them.   I dropped the fund drives some years back, though folks do 
continue to contribute to the cause.  Now a few clicks in Paypal can 
take care of it, though some still prefer to send checks. Yep, things 
are different now.  And with the Covid-19 pandemic, a LOT different.  
But the Team Net mailing lists are still chugging along, providing those 
spending more time at home a bit of distraction, entertainment or 
education as we keep our beloved vehicles rolling along the roads.

I plan to keep it going as long as I can, who knows how many years I 
have left.  April 11th is also my birthday, 66 this year, and I 
certainly won't live forever.  And I fear that when I die, Team Net will 
die.  Sigh.

But for now, enjoy and stay healthy.

mjb.


_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl


-- 
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From eyera3000 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 20:19:03 2020
From: eyera3000 at gmail.com (i erbs)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 19:19:03 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>

It has bern fun to know people for decades. Then get to meet IRL. There
have been many characters on the list and still are ;) I have been a member
of the Healey list for decades and the MG list for a couple of years.
Mark I raise a glass of beer in your honor
With great thanks
Cheers
Ira Erbs
Portland, OR
59 Austin Healey BN4
67 MGB
66 AH Sprite



On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 2:28 PM Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Thank you Mark for all these years.
> I tuned in in the year 1993.
> I worked till mid 1991 at Digital Equipment, where there was a kind of
> topic pool (Vogon News), where classic cars were one of the topics.
> Till 1993 I was able to keep using via a kind of backdoor.
> So when that became impossible, I was advised to switch over to the mgs
> list.
> The list gave lots of advise messages and being active with my MG I became
> experienced enough to give advise as well.
> The list also enabled three meetings with fellow listers:
> In January 2000 at the Longfellow Wayside Inn https://www.wayside.org/
> See http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm
> Later in May 2006 we met again - http://www.ttalk.info/hans2.htm
> In February 2011 I went to Colorado Springs - no pictures on the web
> regrettably.
> But the meeting with an MG lister and his friends was great.
> We had a great tour through the Garden of the Gods
> https://www.gardenofgods.com/ - an amazing place to be!
> So the list has been a catalyst for collecting knowledge and friends!
>
> Hope the list may go on for a long time still!
>
> Cheers Mark!
> Hans
> '71 BGT NRG w/w no o/d
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] Namens Mark J Bradakis via
> Mgs
> Verzonden: zaterdag 11 april 2020 15:15
> Aan: mgs at autox.team.net
> Onderwerp: [Mgs] Birthday
>
> April 11th.  As many of you know, the domain team.net was officially
> registered on April 11, 1991, by the late Bill Caloccia.  I have been
> managing the mailing lists on autox.team.net since then, actually for a
> while before that.  I took over  from Jim Muller, who took over from
> Dale Cook, and I wish I had archives of those first few years.  Actually
> I may have some in my office, on 1/4 inch tape cassettes.  Every now and
> then I consider trying to revive some of the old HP-UX boxes I have to
> see if I can still read any of those tapes.  Maybe someday.
>
> Anyway, in the beginning I was routing everything through the servers at
> the University of Utah Computer Science Department, where I was
> employed.  When my fellow sys admins started noticing just how much
> network traffic there was on a certain box, my boss strongly suggested I
> make other arrangements.  So I went about getting a network connection
> at home.  Back then, it was not that easy, or cheap.  And as I recall,
> the first dedicated Team Net server was an HP box with one of the first
> 100+ megahertz CPUs, and even with a deal through HP, who worked closely
> with the U in those days the system set me back about $2,500.  Hardware
> has improved since then.  And that money didn't all come out of my
> pocket, I initiated a fund drive among the list members and got a great
> response.  Back then it was all checks in the mail, and I mailed a thank
> you postcard to every contributor, or at least most of them, no doubt I
> missed a few.  And for some time there was an annual fund drive to cover
> the rather high cost of having sufficient bandwidth from my house.
>
> So here it is 29 and just everybody has fast network available to
> them.   I dropped the fund drives some years back, though folks do
> continue to contribute to the cause.  Now a few clicks in Paypal can
> take care of it, though some still prefer to send checks. Yep, things
> are different now.  And with the Covid-19 pandemic, a LOT different.
> But the Team Net mailing lists are still chugging along, providing those
> spending more time at home a bit of distraction, entertainment or
> education as we keep our beloved vehicles rolling along the roads.
>
> I plan to keep it going as long as I can, who knows how many years I
> have left.  April 11th is also my birthday, 66 this year, and I
> certainly won't live forever.  And I fear that when I die, Team Net will
> die.  Sigh.
>
> But for now, enjoy and stay healthy.
>
> mjb.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl
>
>
> --
> Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eyera3000 at gmail.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200411/0b9ac68e/attachment.htm>

From Charley38 at twc.com  Sat Apr 11 20:47:55 2020
From: Charley38 at twc.com (Charley Robinson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 21:47:55 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <cc9272a2-5a22-6c4b-8532-3678e8f235c2@twc.com>

Well happy birthday to us!? April 11th is my birthday too.? I am 82 
today.? Been a MG List member since I bought my '69 B in the 1990's.

You're 66?? Shucks, you still have quite a few years left!? Thanks for 
all you do, Mark.

CR

On 4/11/2020 8:15 AM, Mark J Bradakis via Mgs wrote:
>
> I plan to keep it going as long as I can, who knows how many years I 
> have left.? April 11th is also my birthday, 66 this year, and I 
> certainly won't live forever.? And I fear that when I die, Team Net 
> will die.? Sigh.
>
> But for now, enjoy and stay healthy.
>
> mjb.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation? $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/charley38 at twc.com


From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 05:10:50 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 06:10:50 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dy5Fw9X3t1U33_YuiGN3ApNaEZg-PUYKPgXwZrvfLnBhA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello friends,
   Reading through the posts in this thread reminded me just how old many
of us are. I'll be 70 this year. Mark is only a few years my junior and
dear Barry was built a decade or so before even me. Point is, these cars
and the commeraderie found here are great contributions to our lives.
   I don't mean to brag but yesterday,  I made a PayPal contribution to
Mark's team.net cause and I encourage you to do so also. I mean, yesterday
I was just sitting at home, house-bound, and with smartphone in hand, when
I realized how much free entertainment and collected knowledge I get from
you - all enabled by Mark. I further realized that I haven't been to a fast
food joint in over three weeks, and because of that, I have saved a bundle!
So I pressed the PayPal button and thanked Mark for almost three decades of
service. All for the price of a few trips to Dairy Queen! Thank you Mark
and thank you, MGS List members, for your friendship, advice, 'cheers' when
things have gone right, and 'commiseration' when things have gone wrong.

Rick, tweaking on his TD in house-bound Houston
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200412/48705fb6/attachment.htm>

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Sun Apr 12 11:25:14 2020
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 19:25:14 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>

I forgot some more friends of the list:

Paul Hunt, who I really met in England in 2011. 

Here we are pictured in front of the Heritage Motor Centre, wherein the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust is housed. I saw my car?s entry in the official Register! I hope the picture comes through.

 

Rick Lindsay. Although I never have met Rick in person, we daily exchange very nice emails.

 

Cheers,

Hans

71 BGT NRG; w/w; no o/d

 

Van: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] Namens i erbs via Mgs
Verzonden: zondag 12 april 2020 4:19
CC: Ahealey help; mglist
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Birthday

 

It has bern fun to know people for decades. Then get to meet IRL. There have been many characters on the list and still are ;) I have been a member of the Healey list for decades and the MG list for a couple of years. 

Mark I raise a glass of beer in your honor

With great thanks

Cheers

Ira Erbs

Portland, OR

59 Austin Healey BN4

67 MGB

66 AH Sprite

 

 

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 2:28 PM Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

Thank you Mark for all these years.
I tuned in in the year 1993.
I worked till mid 1991 at Digital Equipment, where there was a kind of topic pool (Vogon News), where classic cars were one of the topics.
Till 1993 I was able to keep using via a kind of backdoor.
So when that became impossible, I was advised to switch over to the mgs list.
The list gave lots of advise messages and being active with my MG I became experienced enough to give advise as well.
The list also enabled three meetings with fellow listers:
In January 2000 at the Longfellow Wayside Inn https://www.wayside.org/ 
See http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm 
Later in May 2006 we met again - http://www.ttalk.info/hans2.htm 
In February 2011 I went to Colorado Springs - no pictures on the web regrettably.
But the meeting with an MG lister and his friends was great.
We had a great tour through the Garden of the Gods https://www.gardenofgods.com/ - an amazing place to be!
So the list has been a catalyst for collecting knowledge and friends!

Hope the list may go on for a long time still!

Cheers Mark!
Hans
'71 BGT NRG w/w no o/d


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] Namens Mark J Bradakis via Mgs
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 april 2020 15:15
Aan: mgs at autox.team.net
Onderwerp: [Mgs] Birthday

April 11th.  As many of you know, the domain team.net was officially 
registered on April 11, 1991, by the late Bill Caloccia.  I have been 
managing the mailing lists on autox.team.net since then, actually for a 
while before that.  I took over  from Jim Muller, who took over from 
Dale Cook, and I wish I had archives of those first few years.  Actually 
I may have some in my office, on 1/4 inch tape cassettes.  Every now and 
then I consider trying to revive some of the old HP-UX boxes I have to 
see if I can still read any of those tapes.  Maybe someday.

Anyway, in the beginning I was routing everything through the servers at 
the University of Utah Computer Science Department, where I was 
employed.  When my fellow sys admins started noticing just how much 
network traffic there was on a certain box, my boss strongly suggested I 
make other arrangements.  So I went about getting a network connection 
at home.  Back then, it was not that easy, or cheap.  And as I recall, 
the first dedicated Team Net server was an HP box with one of the first 
100+ megahertz CPUs, and even with a deal through HP, who worked closely 
with the U in those days the system set me back about $2,500.  Hardware 
has improved since then.  And that money didn't all come out of my 
pocket, I initiated a fund drive among the list members and got a great 
response.  Back then it was all checks in the mail, and I mailed a thank 
you postcard to every contributor, or at least most of them, no doubt I 
missed a few.  And for some time there was an annual fund drive to cover 
the rather high cost of having sufficient bandwidth from my house.

So here it is 29 and just everybody has fast network available to 
them.   I dropped the fund drives some years back, though folks do 
continue to contribute to the cause.  Now a few clicks in Paypal can 
take care of it, though some still prefer to send checks. Yep, things 
are different now.  And with the Covid-19 pandemic, a LOT different.  
But the Team Net mailing lists are still chugging along, providing those 
spending more time at home a bit of distraction, entertainment or 
education as we keep our beloved vehicles rolling along the roads.

I plan to keep it going as long as I can, who knows how many years I 
have left.  April 11th is also my birthday, 66 this year, and I 
certainly won't live forever.  And I fear that when I die, Team Net will 
die.  Sigh.

But for now, enjoy and stay healthy.

mjb.


_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl


-- 
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eyera3000 at gmail.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200412/be7f8f14/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: IMG_3408.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 6424697 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200412/be7f8f14/attachment-0001.jpe>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 12:51:09 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:51:09 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Stirling Moss Dies.
In-Reply-To: <1.32beb9c87769374f8ce3@live-mail-7>
References: <1.32beb9c87769374f8ce3@live-mail-7>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dzGafoDE05ETg0tA_Z8ysWRJ-MCYkfzpa1bk3Wiwd=+Ag@mail.gmail.com>

   I met Sir Stirling Moss, whom I called Mr. Moss ( because I don't know
the correct protocol) twice in my life. Once in Australia where I helped
push his Birdcage Maserati out of the gravel trap, and again at The
Boavista historic races in Porto. Both times he was nothing less than a
gentleman. A knight inside of glossy armor.

Rick


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:33 AM Houston MG Car Club <
HoustonMgCarClub at wildapricot.org> wrote:

>
> Dear Richard & Nancy
>
> As club president I am sad to provide you with the following announcement.
>
>
> London (CNN) *Stirling Moss*, a British motor racing legend widely
> considered one of the greatest drivers never to win a Formula One title,
> has died aged 90, according to PA news agency and the Formula One website.
> His wife, Susie *Moss*, told PA that he "died peacefully at his London
> home following a long illness."
>
>
> Coincidentally this is on the day of Cecil Kimber's birth.
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe
> <https://houstonmgcarclub.wildapricot.org/Sys/Unsubscribe?et=XDdJh9q%2fTJSoBlp534aPEvB48WUXbbB4HeB37lBPxUZxPJj4IruAXVJQxb0t2fJcbWdtT7YBneQ20MTfcpl9o7iUSxCU0Pyxm7%2bXBrbROgCN4gzB0%2bBrvnFdi%2fiu4zsydo1T%2fBNcs0Z3lhuKKqsZ98bDHmqNViu%2fB58n3a4wYKBtb05r&up=%3fet%3dueAvQBRdJ8HyGVSLbsmAF%252bNLFW4bdA1HVUJLgzLhmtMdPyES%252fnQ1uTF2AB1JlfT8VrlG23IQRhXmz%252blGetrtrUw%252bnaUOpcZhRp3%252bSPgAzpgbR5k2teS1D%252bb7l%252bnX2cypZSmtWC%252f1WZQtLUtBQKylVx7w2qemVA15xiJhBR7fEJyfGX7y>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200412/b9e03038/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 12:56:41 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 13:56:41 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hans wrote,

> Rick Lindsay. Although I never have met Rick in person,
> we daily exchange very nice emails.

True, and this statement re-defines the word 'met'. I'll add in that Hans
is a 'friend'. The internet had defined some things in a good way too!

Rick
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200412/fc0c897a/attachment.htm>

From eric at erickson.on.net  Sun Apr 12 22:05:55 2020
From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:05:55 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>

G?day, Rick


Eric

> On 13 Apr 2020, at 4:56 am, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Hans wrote,
> 
> > Rick Lindsay. Although I never have met Rick in person,
> > we daily exchange very nice emails.
> 
> True, and this statement re-defines the word 'met'. I'll add in that Hans is a 'friend'. The internet had defined some things in a good way too!
> 
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eric at erickson.on.net


From Charley38 at twc.com  Mon Apr 13 01:58:22 2020
From: Charley38 at twc.com (Charley Robinson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 02:58:22 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Airline Pilot Comedy Sketch
In-Reply-To: <5E931240.000001.03384@DESKTOP-5R7AFGM>
References: <5E931240.000001.03384@DESKTOP-5R7AFGM>
Message-ID: <f1546a7e-8539-69e2-0185-fd2bc86c1b0a@twc.com>

Just because it was my b'day.

CR


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Airline Pilot Comedy Sketch
Date: 	Sun, 12 Apr 2020 08:06:09 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: 	nicolsns at ktc.com <nicolsns at ktc.com>
To: 	Charley38 at twc.com, Gene (Mik) Kranz <whiteflt56M at comcast.net>, Gus 
Letto <lettog at att.net>, Jane Nicolson <janenicolson20 at gmail.com>, Jim 
Myers <jmfm360 at gmail.com>, Neil Mesler <neilmesler at hotmail.com>, Robert 
Brandes <rrbrandes at buckles.com>, Stewart and Lynn Nicolson 
<slnicolson at aol.com>



*Airline Pilot Comedy Sketch*

*Yes, it has been around but a must see to lighten your day. Happy 
Easter....*

https://www.chonday.com/16786/pilotstechfu4/



	




FREE Animations for your email - by IncrediMail 
<http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621131&did=10501&ppd=2812,201301281447,9,1,2102005767886301673&rui=163811888&app_test_id=0&sd=20200412> 

Click Here! 
<http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621131&did=10501&ppd=2812,201301281447,9,1,2102005767886301673&rui=163811888&app_test_id=0&sd=20200412> 
	
? 
<http://www.incredimail.com/?id=620777&did=10501&ppd=2741,201201221253,9,1,2102005767886301673&rui=163811888&app_test_id=0&sd=20200412> 



	<http://www.incredimail.com/?id=621131&did=10501&ppd=2812,201301281447,9,1,2102005767886301673&rui=163811888&app_test_id=0&sd=20200412>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/a3fd0dff/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ape.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 34603 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/a3fd0dff/attachment.gif>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 02:58:07 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 03:58:07 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>

Speaking of friends, met and not met in person...

Hello Eric! Wonderful to hear from you. I think of you each year as the
Australian Formula 1 race weekend approaches. Did you work the support
races this year? Since the F1 race was canceled, we didn't hear about the
V8s, Sport UTEs, or any of the other weekend's events.

Still racing your MGB? I'm guessing that Australia is as locked-down as we
are here in the States? How are things down in Tasmania? Has the virus made
it to your corner of the world? If so, I hope you and yours are well.

Rick
PS: Yes Hans, Eric and I finally met face-to-face a few years ago while
both marshaling the F1 Grand Prix in Melbourne.


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:36 PM Eric via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

> G?day, Rick
>
>
> Eric
>
> > On 13 Apr 2020, at 4:56 am, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hans wrote,
> >
> > > Rick Lindsay. Although I never have met Rick in person,
> > > we daily exchange very nice emails.
> >
> > True, and this statement re-defines the word 'met'. I'll add in that
> Hans is a 'friend'. The internet had defined some things in a good way too!
> >
> > Rick
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/26f5759b/attachment.htm>

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Mon Apr 13 03:23:34 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:23:34 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Stirling Moss Dies.
References: <1.32beb9c87769374f8ce3@live-mail-7>
 <CAOc+-dzGafoDE05ETg0tA_Z8ysWRJ-MCYkfzpa1bk3Wiwd=+Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005392A1508C446F9F5DB68E4B433D4D@paul>

A gent as you say.  His era is my first memory of being interested in cars and motor racing.  The husband of a friend of my mother was really into it with memorabilia all round their house and I was desperately hoping he would take me to a GP one day.  I was gutted when they divorced!  I was at Silverstone many years ago and Sir Stirling was in the middle of a crowd signing autographs.  Couldn't get near him but I managed to perch on a short concrete pillar and get a clear view of his head and shoulders, when he looked up and smiled at me for a moment long enough to get a picture.  I like to think he was giving me the opportunity to take the picture, but maybe he was wondering if I would topple off.

He was at Gaydon for the first public showing of the MGF and the 75th anniversary of Old Number One, and after sitting in the MGF he clambered into the claustrophobic cockpit of EX181 and recounted how, the first time he got in, he hoped that he would never have to get out in a hurry.

PaulH.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/5a5c0941/attachment.htm>

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Mon Apr 13 07:34:15 2020
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:34:15 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
 <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01d61198$398f1d70$acad5850$@planet.nl>

Hi Eric,

 

If there is a chance that I go to Australia, I hope to be able to see you.

Australia is a very big country, so a meeting has to be planned.

There are many nice things to do I believe and why not meeting a lister (or more), like I did 4 times now.

When I go, I?ll be at Coffs Harbour, where my neighbor boy from the fifties ? early sixties lives.

He also is a car fanatic (drives a Peugeot SCZ noways), so lots mutual interests.

 

Cheers,

Hans

?71 BGT recovering of a leaky cooling system (hose torn). Luckily no damage to head gasket.

 

Van: Richard Lindsay [mailto:richardolindsay at gmail.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 april 2020 10:58
Aan: Eric; Hans Duinhoven
CC: MG list
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Birthday

 

Speaking of friends, met and not met in person...

 

Hello Eric! Wonderful to hear from you. I think of you each year as the Australian Formula 1 race weekend approaches. Did you work the support races this year? Since the F1 race was canceled, we didn't hear about the V8s, Sport UTEs, or any of the other weekend's events.

 

Still racing your MGB? I'm guessing that Australia is as locked-down as we are here in the States? How are things down in Tasmania? Has the virus made it to your corner of the world? If so, I hope you and yours are well.

 

Rick

PS: Yes Hans, Eric and I finally met face-to-face a few years ago while both marshaling the F1 Grand Prix in Melbourne.

 

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:36 PM Eric via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

G?day, Rick


Eric

> On 13 Apr 2020, at 4:56 am, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Hans wrote,
> 
> > Rick Lindsay. Although I never have met Rick in person,
> > we daily exchange very nice emails.
> 
> True, and this statement re-defines the word 'met'. I'll add in that Hans is a 'friend'. The internet had defined some things in a good way too!
> 
> Rick



-- 
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/56dead0e/attachment.htm>

From eric at erickson.on.net  Mon Apr 13 08:40:12 2020
From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 00:40:12 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <008c01d61198$398f1d70$acad5850$@planet.nl>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
 <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <008c01d61198$398f1d70$acad5850$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <4626F875-64C9-4BA9-94AB-866A69D2F8EB@erickson.on.net>

Hi guys? long time no? anything.

Richard, well I have a new ?B in the shed - a ?79 with a rather fast, race prepared 230KW Rover V8.  But I have had little time to get it in the track.  I have moved from Adelaide to Victoria (about an hour and a half out of Melbourne) so I have been tied up settling in the the new place and the new job (yes, still telco).

BUT the good news is that I have a killer hillclimb (Bryant Park Hillclimb) track 30 minutes away, Phillip Island race track an hour away? and also an hour away, Sandown Motorsport Park (you can google those if you wish).  This new car was built for Phillip Island.

I hope you are now able to spend lots of time working on your collection.

Fortunately, I wasn?t working at TH GP this year - because nothing much happened.  They got a bit of practice in and a couple of support races before it was shut down.

And Hans, Coffs Harbour is about a 15 hour drive away so with a bit of effort you can do it in a day with a lunch break :) 

But I have a spare room here in regional Victoria so you are welcome to stay.

Now, I am going to try to attach a picture that Richard will understand.  Pardon the sweat stains - it is still one of my favourite caps (with a genuine story behind it).  Hopefully I have reduced the size of the image enough.

Keep in touch, y?all

Eric




> On 13 Apr 2020, at 11:34 pm, Hans Duinhoven <h.duinhoven at planet.nl> wrote:
> 
> Hi Eric,
>  
> If there is a chance that I go to Australia, I hope to be able to see you.
> Australia is a very big country, so a meeting has to be planned.
> There are many nice things to do I believe and why not meeting a lister (or more), like I did 4 times now.
> When I go, I?ll be at Coffs Harbour, where my neighbor boy from the fifties ? early sixties lives.
> He also is a car fanatic (drives a Peugeot SCZ noways), so lots mutual interests.
>  
> Cheers,
> Hans
> ?71 BGT recovering of a leaky cooling system (hose torn). Luckily no damage to head gasket.
>  
> Van: Richard Lindsay [mailto:richardolindsay at gmail.com] 
> Verzonden: maandag 13 april 2020 10:58
> Aan: Eric; Hans Duinhoven
> CC: MG list
> Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Birthday
>  
> Speaking of friends, met and not met in person...
>  
> Hello Eric! Wonderful to hear from you. I think of you each year as the Australian Formula 1 race weekend approaches. Did you work the support races this year? Since the F1 race was canceled, we didn't hear about the V8s, Sport UTEs, or any of the other weekend's events.
>  
> Still racing your MGB? I'm guessing that Australia is as locked-down as we are here in the States? How are things down in Tasmania? Has the virus made it to your corner of the world? If so, I hope you and yours are well.
>  
> Rick
> PS: Yes Hans, Eric and I finally met face-to-face a few years ago while both marshaling the F1 Grand Prix in Melbourne.
>  
> 
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:36 PM Eric via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>> G?day, Rick
>> 
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> > On 13 Apr 2020, at 4:56 am, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Hans wrote,
>> > 
>> > > Rick Lindsay. Although I never have met Rick in person,
>> > > we daily exchange very nice emails.
>> > 
>> > True, and this statement re-defines the word 'met'. I'll add in that Hans is a 'friend'. The internet had defined some things in a good way too!
>> > 
>> > Rick
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virusvrij. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200414/42978ba0/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: USGP.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 229639 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200414/42978ba0/attachment.jpe>

From eric at erickson.on.net  Mon Apr 13 08:44:23 2020
From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 00:44:23 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <4626F875-64C9-4BA9-94AB-866A69D2F8EB@erickson.on.net>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
 <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <008c01d61198$398f1d70$acad5850$@planet.nl>
 <4626F875-64C9-4BA9-94AB-866A69D2F8EB@erickson.on.net>
Message-ID: <1A2184E5-993A-41EE-9CD9-9D2A0581125F@erickson.on.net>



> On 14 Apr 2020, at 12:40 am, Eric <eric at erickson.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi guys? long time no? anything.
> 
> Richard, well I have a new ?B in the shed - a ?79 with a rather fast, race prepared 230KW Rover V8.  But I have had little time to get it in the track.  I have moved from Adelaide to Victoria (about an hour and a half out of Melbourne) so I have been tied up settling in the the new place and the new job (yes, still telco).
> 


This is my rather agricultural V8 race car





Eric
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200414/34cd52a0/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: BlackB.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 504509 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200414/34cd52a0/attachment.jpe>

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Mon Apr 13 12:35:37 2020
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:35:37 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <1A2184E5-993A-41EE-9CD9-9D2A0581125F@erickson.on.net>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
 <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <008c01d61198$398f1d70$acad5850$@planet.nl>
 <4626F875-64C9-4BA9-94AB-866A69D2F8EB@erickson.on.net>
 <1A2184E5-993A-41EE-9CD9-9D2A0581125F@erickson.on.net>
Message-ID: <00ec01d611c2$5408aa70$fc19ff50$@planet.nl>

How much wind do you catch?

How is the extremely low window tightened, so it is not blown away?

I like the rims!

 

Cheers,

Hans

 

Van: Eric [mailto:eric at erickson.on.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 april 2020 16:44
Aan: Hans Duinhoven
CC: Richard Lindsay; MG list
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Birthday

 

 





On 14 Apr 2020, at 12:40 am, Eric <eric at erickson.on.net> wrote:

 

Hi guys? long time no? anything.

 

Richard, well I have a new ?B in the shed - a ?79 with a rather fast, race prepared 230KW Rover V8.  But I have had little time to get it in the track.  I have moved from Adelaide to Victoria (about an hour and a half out of Melbourne) so I have been tied up settling in the the new place and the new job (yes, still telco).

 

 

 

This is my rather agricultural V8 race car

 

 



 

 

Eric



-- 
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/a67c9b86/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 504509 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/a67c9b86/attachment.jpg>

From eric at erickson.on.net  Mon Apr 13 17:30:03 2020
From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:30:03 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <00ec01d611c2$5408aa70$fc19ff50$@planet.nl>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
 <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <008c01d61198$398f1d70$acad5850$@planet.nl>
 <4626F875-64C9-4BA9-94AB-866A69D2F8EB@erickson.on.net>
 <1A2184E5-993A-41EE-9CD9-9D2A0581125F@erickson.on.net>
 <00ec01d611c2$5408aa70$fc19ff50$@planet.nl>
Message-ID: <20BB841B-C491-477A-A456-DDC962D33C18@erickson.on.net>

Hi,

I catch a heap of wind in the face - the aeroscreen does not deflect it over my head. It is bad because it means I can?t hear the engine (which sounds fantastic at speed0.  I use shift lights for gear changes.

The windscreen/aeroscreen is mounted like the normal windscreen (the mounts are a normal windscreen just cut off).  The Plexiglas is glued in pretty well.

Thanks? I preferred the rims on my old car but they went with it when I sold them - and they weren?t 6.5? wide like these. I currently, generally, run on slicks.


Eric

> On 14 Apr 2020, at 4:35 am, Hans Duinhoven <h.duinhoven at planet.nl> wrote:
> 
> How much wind do you catch?
> How is the extremely low window tightened, so it is not blown away?
> I like the rims!
>  
> Cheers,
> Hans
>  
> Van: Eric [mailto:eric at erickson.on.net <mailto:eric at erickson.on.net>] 
> Verzonden: maandag 13 april 2020 16:44
> Aan: Hans Duinhoven
> CC: Richard Lindsay; MG list
> Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Birthday
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On 14 Apr 2020, at 12:40 am, Eric <eric at erickson.on.net <mailto:eric at erickson.on.net>> wrote:
>  
> Hi guys? long time no? anything.
>  
> Richard, well I have a new ?B in the shed - a ?79 with a rather fast, race prepared 230KW Rover V8.  But I have had little time to get it in the track.  I have moved from Adelaide to Victoria (about an hour and a half out of Melbourne) so I have been tied up settling in the the new place and the new job (yes, still telco).
>  
>  
>  
> This is my rather agricultural V8 race car
>  
>  
> <image001.jpg>
>  
>  
> Eric
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virusvrij. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200414/0b7e22dc/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 19:22:41 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:22:41 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Birthday
In-Reply-To: <20BB841B-C491-477A-A456-DDC962D33C18@erickson.on.net>
References: <356ffecc-5e60-05eb-34af-ec26c9109ce1@bradakis.com>
 <000f01d61048$124af3c0$36e0db40$@planet.nl>
 <CABXhz88yLT5o8ivo3-FC60m26mRDm13092cLZKSOb-i+Qsq_cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801d610ef$53b41fb0$fb1c5f10$@planet.nl>
 <CAOc+-dzmwO-JijGLEKwM4jECZPKWM8nHsy8wjKaZEFJbUHmT-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7986A196-6C51-4C56-894B-A541992055FE@erickson.on.net>
 <CAOc+-dxjVB=nCbRGtAuqN0UAk3DzrBXtfAb1FqKJcy_p=gNcSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <008c01d61198$398f1d70$acad5850$@planet.nl>
 <4626F875-64C9-4BA9-94AB-866A69D2F8EB@erickson.on.net>
 <1A2184E5-993A-41EE-9CD9-9D2A0581125F@erickson.on.net>
 <00ec01d611c2$5408aa70$fc19ff50$@planet.nl>
 <20BB841B-C491-477A-A456-DDC962D33C18@erickson.on.net>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dwmj2envS7W5kNDz+S89Q9bvDbsKr_zFJctmoaVAeZ3hA@mail.gmail.com>

Eric, didn't you live in or near Hobart when we first met?

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 6:30 PM Eric <eric at erickson.on.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I catch a heap of wind in the face - the aeroscreen does not deflect it
> over my head. It is bad because it means I can?t hear the engine (which
> sounds fantastic at speed0.  I use shift lights for gear changes.
>
> The windscreen/aeroscreen is mounted like the normal windscreen (the
> mounts are a normal windscreen just cut off).  The Plexiglas is glued in
> pretty well.
>
> Thanks? I preferred the rims on my old car but they went with it when I
> sold them - and they weren?t 6.5? wide like these. I currently, generally,
> run on slicks.
>
>
> Eric
>
> On 14 Apr 2020, at 4:35 am, Hans Duinhoven <h.duinhoven at planet.nl> wrote:
>
> How much wind do you catch?
> How is the extremely low window tightened, so it is not blown away?
> I like the rims!
>
> Cheers,
> Hans
>
> *Van:* Eric [mailto:eric at erickson.on.net <eric at erickson.on.net>]
> *Verzonden:* maandag 13 april 2020 16:44
> *Aan:* Hans Duinhoven
> *CC:* Richard Lindsay; MG list
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [Mgs] Birthday
>
>
>
>
> On 14 Apr 2020, at 12:40 am, Eric <eric at erickson.on.net> wrote:
>
> Hi guys? long time no? anything.
>
> Richard, well I have a new ?B in the shed - a ?79 with a rather fast, race
> prepared 230KW Rover V8.  But I have had little time to get it in the
> track.  I have moved from Adelaide to Victoria (about an hour and a half
> out of Melbourne) so I have been tied up settling in the the new place and
> the new job (yes, still telco).
>
>
>
> This is my rather agricultural V8 race car
>
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> Virusvrij. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200413/27a21666/attachment.htm>

From guinness at stclegal.com  Tue Apr 14 12:25:46 2020
From: guinness at stclegal.com (Robert J. Guinness)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 13:25:46 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Australian MG Racing
Message-ID: <4f2c2eea-501b-edaa-031f-0bc2dd70e596@stclegal.com>

Eric:

Have you had the MGB out on the Phillip Island Circuit yet?? I just 
re-watched "On the Beach" for pandemic gloom and as a distraction tried 
to ID and calculate the value of the cars they wrecked in the race 
scene.? The film was too early for the Bs, but I thought I saw a TD 
wipe-out a couple of times.

-- 
e-mail signature

Robert Guinness

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200414/2fd962fd/attachment.htm>

From eric at erickson.on.net  Tue Apr 14 17:07:19 2020
From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 09:07:19 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] [SUSPECTED SPAM]  Australian MG Racing
In-Reply-To: <4f2c2eea-501b-edaa-031f-0bc2dd70e596@stclegal.com>
References: <4f2c2eea-501b-edaa-031f-0bc2dd70e596@stclegal.com>
Message-ID: <B9887823-79FC-465C-B71B-EFE5D5A88E4D@erickson.on.net>

Gee, you sure picked a cheery movie :)

The plan was to hit Phillip Island this year (well, last year was also in the plan but that didn?t happen).

But hey, we all probably had plans to do lots of things this year that ain?t going to happen.

It will happen - and you will see video :)

Thanks,


Eric

> On 15 Apr 2020, at 4:25 am, Robert J. Guinness via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Eric:
> 
> Have you had the MGB out on the Phillip Island Circuit yet?  I just re-watched "On the Beach" for pandemic gloom and as a distraction tried to ID and calculate the value of the cars they wrecked in the race scene.  The film was too early for the Bs, but I thought I saw a TD wipe-out a couple of times.
> 
> -- 
> Robert Guinness
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs <http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eric at erickson.on.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eric at erickson.on.net>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200415/7583943f/attachment.htm>

From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Apr 17 18:02:03 2020
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:02:03 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
Message-ID: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>

1959 MGA with an MGB engine.  I am pretty sure it was once a 1500

 

We took the body apart and everything off.  Am finishing up the chassis and
looking forward (and dreading) putting it all back together

 

My question - should I build the dashboard with the gauges and switches
before mating it to the body, or put it all in after?

 

Seems to me the first choice makes more sense.  

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200417/764482ef/attachment.htm>

From mvheim at sonic.net  Fri Apr 17 18:35:56 2020
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:35:56 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <DD84FC0E-2BC2-4312-92FE-4B1BBF7B988F@sonic.net>

I?m not familiar with the MGA, but with my steel dash MGB, I installed the naked dash first.

It?s not that hard to install the switches and gauges into the dash panel, but it IS hard to hook up the wires, etc. blindly from under the dash. For example, it may be easier to hook up the tach and the dash lamps with the speedometer out, so you can reach in the big hole. And since the switches install from the back, it?s easier to hook the loose switch up to the harness, then poke it through the dash, compared to trying to hook up the blade connectors blindly, or trying to peer up while laying on the floor.


--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Apr 17, 2020, at 5:02 PM, dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 1959 MGA with an MGB engine.  I am pretty sure it was once a 1500
>  
> We took the body apart and everything off.  Am finishing up the chassis and looking forward (and dreading) putting it all back together
>  
> My question ? should I build the dashboard with the gauges and switches before mating it to the body, or put it all in after?
>  
> Seems to me the first choice makes more sense.  
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs <http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200417/2e44c02e/attachment.htm>

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Fri Apr 17 19:12:37 2020
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 21:12:37 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.85.1587172364.2961.mgs@autox.team.net>

You can build the dash complete on the workbench 
(except for the dual gauge), and even install the 
dash harness.  Then take it to the car to sit on 
the tunnel with dash face down in your lap while 
you connect the main harness.  Then present the 
dash to the car and install three top bracket 
screws with large flat washers and lockwashers 
(may need to dislodge one of the larger 
instruments for access to one of the 
screws).  Then install four bottom 
braces.  Lastly install the safety gauge, running 
the temperaure sensor bulb throiugh the dash and 
through the firewall to the engine.  Also connect 
the oil pressure sensor pipe to the dual 
gauge.  Lastly tidy up under the dash with two 
frewall clips each for the temperature sensor 
pipe and oil pressure signal pipe, and a couple 
of rubber harness ties.  Don't forget rubber 
rings behind the instruments and rubber grommets 
(or plugs) in every firewall hole.

Well, before you install the dash, do caulk and 
seal the air gap at top of the firewall.  60 
years earlier there was a felt packing strip in that gap.

Barney


At 08:02 PM 4/17/2020, dave via Mgs wrote:
>....
>1959 MGA with an MGB engine.  I am pretty sure it was once a 1500
>
>We took the body apart and everything off.  Am 
>finishing up the chassis and looking forward 
>(and dreading) putting it all back together
>
>My question ? should I build the dashboard with 
>the gauges and switches before mating it to the body, or put it all in after?
>
>Seems to me the first choice makes more sense.


From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 18 09:44:39 2020
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 15:44:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>

On Friday, April 17, 2020, 5:02:09 PM PDT, dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

> My question ? should I build the dashboard with the gauges and
> switches before mating it to the body, or put it all in after?
>?
> Seems to me the first choice makes more sense.?

That's how they did it at the factory:

http://tildebang.com/mg/images/hist-dashboard.jpg

David Breneman david_breneman at yahoo.com


From dave at ranteer.com  Sun Apr 19 10:14:18 2020
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 11:14:18 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] part needed
Message-ID: <000a01d61665$94b97b60$be2c7220$@ranteer.com>

Well, it would be nice.  The other side just has a bolt in place of this

 

Anyone have one to sell?

 

Aka part 320-468 on https://mossmotors.com/rear-suspension-2

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200419/0ca7076f/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: A5EAAFF2.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4771369 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200419/0ca7076f/attachment-0001.jpg>

From barrob at bell.net  Sat Apr 18 12:04:14 2020
From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:04:14 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
 <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>

Been there done that - Put dash altogether then install.?? Don' forget 
mounting rubber O-rings (which I sell as a hobby!!) as well as internal 
ones as they tend to morph into space age glue (also sell!!)? If you 
have the dash that has the warning lights up in a row make sure those 
are firmly housed otherwise they will pop out later

Cheers
Barrie

On 4/18/2020 11:44 AM, David Breneman via Mgs wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2020, 5:02:09 PM PDT, dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> My question ? should I build the dashboard with the gauges and
>> switches before mating it to the body, or put it all in after?
>>   
>> Seems to me the first choice makes more sense.
> That's how they did it at the factory:
>
> http://tildebang.com/mg/images/hist-dashboard.jpg
>
> David Breneman david_breneman at yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200418/33138ea2/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 06:42:36 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:42:36 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
 <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>

   Perhaps I'm the only guy who enjoys wiring and electrical systems! I
just find it rewarding to get everything connected correctly and the
harness bits aligned. Go figure!
   My TD is simplicity itself but the other LBC project takes some
thinking. It's a US specification 1975 TR6. And as we all know, the '70s
was a time of turmoil for our LBCs; None the least of which was the
electrics! Part of my goal with this car is to create a CORRECT wiring
diagram with CORRECT color codes! Nothing I have found published matches my
car, including the schematics labeled 'U.S.A. Only'.
   Still, for a guy like me who builds and restores cars rather than
driving them, this is a perfect challenge (storm?)! There are other
projects in the queue too, but they are even further OT than Triumph
talk...so I will leave Volvo, Lancia, and Jaguar words for others.

Rick, in Houston
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/4b6b8fc4/attachment.htm>

From barrob at bell.net  Tue Apr 21 08:02:40 2020
From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:02:40 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
 <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>
 <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5207bf8a-9084-a0cf-8e74-c8524027da96@bell.net>

Hello Rick and fellow bodies,

When I built my MGB GT V8 (none available in N America) I knew as a 
non-factory built car it would never be regarded as a 'real' V8.? So 
some modifications were made such as SD1 gearbox and down draft Weber 
(actually sold in NA as Edelbrock because brand Weber not well known in 
NA!). ? ? But major 'upgrade' was point to point wiring with fuses and 
solenoids as per Dan Master's design (see British V8 Newsletter May-Aug 
2001) ? Thus little fear of difficult to solve electric problems 
although it did mean more wire.?? There had never been an electrical 
problem except a high-torque starter (never buy a cheap one).?? The 
mechanic who looks after the car loves the wiring.

Cheers
Barrie

On 4/21/2020 8:42 AM, Richard Lindsay via Mgs wrote:
> ? ?Perhaps I'm the only guy who enjoys wiring and electrical systems! 
> I just find it rewarding to get everything connected correctly and the 
> harness bits aligned. Go figure!
> ? ?My TD is simplicity itself but the other LBC project takes some 
> thinking. It's a US specification 1975 TR6. And as we all know, the 
> '70s was a time of turmoil for our LBCs; None the least of which was 
> the electrics! Part of my goal with this car is to create a CORRECT 
> wiring diagram with CORRECT color codes! Nothing I have found 
> published matches my car, including the schematics labeled 'U.S.A. Only'.
> ? ?Still, for a guy like me who builds and restores cars rather than 
> driving them, this is a perfect challenge (storm?)! There are other 
> projects in the queue too, but they are even further OT than Triumph 
> talk...so I will leave Volvo, Lancia, and Jaguar words for others.
>
> Rick, in Houston
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/07656092/attachment.htm>

From dave at ranteer.com  Tue Apr 21 11:00:01 2020
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 12:00:01 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] FW:  dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
 <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>
 <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003401d617fe$4cf38c90$e6daa5b0$@ranteer.com>

In fact I very much enjoy wiring.  I have built entire wiring harnesses from scratch, carefully following the color scheme.  I will admit on one car I changed it from a 4 fuse system to a 10 fuse system.  Everything had its own fuse and everything was grounded directly.  Never an electrical problem on that car!

 

I am now restoring 2 mga?s, albeit one at a time.  I will be emulating the factory harness in every way possible, building it from scratch.  That takes a lot of research and questions, and Barney has been extremely helpful.  Get the right color through the right holes, use the connectors in the right places, all a challenge.  Fortunately the one is my reference as I do the other.

 

And, btw, I didn?t start out to restore 2.  Someone offered me a deal I couldn?t refuse on the second one, which needed a new throw out bearing.  But the paint was wrong and so awful we were going to clean it up.  and then . . . .    shipwright?s disease totally got me.  The wiring was so bad (the DPO pretty much just used red and blue wires) that I cut it out and threw it out.

 

Today I hope to make some big progress on the chassis (it is half restored, as in the back half), and I?ve got parts hanging in the side yard that I painted this morning.

 

From: Mgs <mgs-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Richard Lindsay via Mgs
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 7:43 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net List <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] dashboard install

 

   Perhaps I'm the only guy who enjoys wiring and electrical systems! I just find it rewarding to get everything connected correctly and the harness bits aligned. Go figure!

   My TD is simplicity itself but the other LBC project takes some thinking. It's a US specification 1975 TR6. And as we all know, the '70s was a time of turmoil for our LBCs; None the least of which was the electrics! Part of my goal with this car is to create a CORRECT wiring diagram with CORRECT color codes! Nothing I have found published matches my car, including the schematics labeled 'U.S.A. Only'.

   Still, for a guy like me who builds and restores cars rather than driving them, this is a perfect challenge (storm?)! There are other projects in the queue too, but they are even further OT than Triumph talk...so I will leave Volvo, Lancia, and Jaguar words for others.

 

Rick, in Houston

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/659120f7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Untitled attachment 00040.txt
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/659120f7/attachment.txt>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: before.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 279956 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/659120f7/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: after.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 226695 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/659120f7/attachment-0001.jpg>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 11:26:26 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 12:26:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] FW: dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <003401d617fe$4cf38c90$e6daa5b0$@ranteer.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
 <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>
 <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003401d617fe$4cf38c90$e6daa5b0$@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dyxXdG2Rxew0gq7XopGVgTbyMxg5Q==Q9i95y6NOMyGEA@mail.gmail.com>

   Great fun and encouraging to read this, Dave. There must be some primal
satisfaction involved. There certainly is for me, even if poorly
understood. My TD got new harnesses. See attached.

   I am now finishing a TR6 and keeping the original harness, but have
replaced most connectors and verified / improved grounds.
   Next up? My 1971 Volvo 1800E project is getting 'new' self-made dash
wiring and engine room harness. Woohoo.

Rick

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 12:09 PM dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

> In fact I very much enjoy wiring.  I have built entire wiring harnesses
> from scratch, carefully following the color scheme.  I will admit on one
> car I changed it from a 4 fuse system to a 10 fuse system.  Everything had
> its own fuse and everything was grounded directly.  Never an electrical
> problem on that car!
>
> I am now restoring 2 mga?s, albeit one at a time.  I will be emulating the
> factory harness in every way possible, building it from scratch.  That
> takes a lot of research and questions, and Barney has been extremely
> helpful.  Get the right color through the right holes, use the connectors
> in the right places, all a challenge.  Fortunately the one is my reference
> as I do the other.
>
> And, btw, I didn?t start out to restore 2.  Someone offered me a deal I
> couldn?t refuse on the second one, which needed a new throw out bearing.
> But the paint was wrong and so awful we were going to clean it up.  and
> then . . . .    shipwright?s disease totally got me.  The wiring was so bad
> (the DPO pretty much just used red and blue wires) that I cut it out and
> threw it out.
>
> Today I hope to make some big progress on the chassis (it is half
> restored, as in the back half), and I?ve got parts hanging in the side yard
> that I painted this morning.
>
> *From:* Mgs *On Behalf Of *Richard Lindsay
>
>    Perhaps I'm the only guy who enjoys wiring and electrical systems! I
> just find it rewarding to get everything connected correctly and the
> harness bits aligned. Go figure!
>
>    My TD is simplicity itself but the other LBC project takes some
> thinking. It's a US specification 1975 TR6. And as we all know, the '70s
> was a time of turmoil for our LBCs; None the least of which was the
> electrics! Part of my goal with this car is to create a CORRECT wiring
> diagram with CORRECT color codes! Nothing I have found published matches my
> car, including the schematics labeled 'U.S.A. Only'.
>
>    Still, for a guy like me who builds and restores cars rather than
> driving them, this is a perfect challenge (storm?)! There are other
> projects in the queue too, but they are even further OT than Triumph
> talk...so I will leave Volvo, Lancia, and Jaguar words for others.
>
> Rick, in Houston
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/d222da8d/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20191003_134518.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4018945 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/d222da8d/attachment-0001.jpg>

From mvheim at sonic.net  Tue Apr 21 12:16:07 2020
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 11:16:07 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] FW: dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dyxXdG2Rxew0gq7XopGVgTbyMxg5Q==Q9i95y6NOMyGEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
 <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>
 <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003401d617fe$4cf38c90$e6daa5b0$@ranteer.com>
 <CAOc+-dyxXdG2Rxew0gq7XopGVgTbyMxg5Q==Q9i95y6NOMyGEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43477726-4D74-4BF8-B7ED-154E7AC153B9@sonic.net>

I am not a huge fan of playing with electrical systems, speaking for myself.

When it came to wiring my completely stripped-to-metal MGB roadster, I re-used the original harness that I had pulled out of the ?barn find", on the theory that the copper doesn?t go bad. Since the cotton wrap had more or less completely disintegrated, I removed the remnants and rewrapped it in black plastic. This gave me an opportunity to inspect the entire run. When removing it, I had used small Avery labels to identify each connector, and had cleaned every male bullet and bought a supply of the female connectors. In the end, I had to make a few splices to reverse the polarity on the tach, hook up the alternator, and replace some brittle insulation in the engine compartment runs. To address one major flaw, I installed a headlight relay kit, out of sight under the bonnet latch platform. But I did not feel it necessary to redesign the system or install multiple extra fuses. I have a points distributor, I am not even running a radio, and certainly have no intention of adding gimmicks like power door locks or windows, heated seats, or air conditioning. The charm of the MG is its simplicity.

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB



> On Apr 21, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
>    Great fun and encouraging to read this, Dave. There must be some primal satisfaction involved. There certainly is for me, even if poorly understood. My TD got new harnesses. See attached.
> 
>    I am now finishing a TR6 and keeping the original harness, but have replaced most connectors and verified / improved grounds.
>    Next up? My 1971 Volvo 1800E project is getting 'new' self-made dash wiring and engine room harness. Woohoo.
> 
> Rick
> 
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 12:09 PM dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> In fact I very much enjoy wiring.  I have built entire wiring harnesses from scratch, carefully following the color scheme.  I will admit on one car I changed it from a 4 fuse system to a 10 fuse system.  Everything had its own fuse and everything was grounded directly.  Never an electrical problem on that car!
> 
> I am now restoring 2 mga?s, albeit one at a time.  I will be emulating the factory harness in every way possible, building it from scratch.  That takes a lot of research and questions, and Barney has been extremely helpful.  Get the right color through the right holes, use the connectors in the right places, all a challenge.  Fortunately the one is my reference as I do the other.
> 
> And, btw, I didn?t start out to restore 2.  Someone offered me a deal I couldn?t refuse on the second one, which needed a new throw out bearing.  But the paint was wrong and so awful we were going to clean it up.  and then . . . .    shipwright?s disease totally got me.  The wiring was so bad (the DPO pretty much just used red and blue wires) that I cut it out and threw it out.
> 
> Today I hope to make some big progress on the chassis (it is half restored, as in the back half), and I?ve got parts hanging in the side yard that I painted this morning.
> 
> From: Mgs On Behalf Of Richard Lindsay
> 
>    Perhaps I'm the only guy who enjoys wiring and electrical systems! I just find it rewarding to get everything connected correctly and the harness bits aligned. Go figure!
> 
>    My TD is simplicity itself but the other LBC project takes some thinking. It's a US specification 1975 TR6. And as we all know, the '70s was a time of turmoil for our LBCs; None the least of which was the electrics! Part of my goal with this car is to create a CORRECT wiring diagram with CORRECT color codes! Nothing I have found published matches my car, including the schematics labeled 'U.S.A. Only'.
> 
>    Still, for a guy like me who builds and restores cars rather than driving them, this is a perfect challenge (storm?)! There are other projects in the queue too, but they are even further OT than Triumph talk...so I will leave Volvo, Lancia, and Jaguar words for others.
> 
> Rick, in Houston
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/b57e6b5c/attachment.htm>

From lawrence.swift at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 14:25:43 2020
From: lawrence.swift at gmail.com (Team.net)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:25:43 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard install
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dyxXdG2Rxew0gq7XopGVgTbyMxg5Q==Q9i95y6NOMyGEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000c01d61514$97aa7bf0$c6ff73d0$@ranteer.com>
 <1337956619.2695390.1587224679432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d6f9f7a7-2032-cf2a-8a89-065ac38e0b3e@bell.net>
 <CAOc+-dzjbMhxsHYCJS=7qvWwbvKnBwym4NJ-LZAM_DxJ88xchQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003401d617fe$4cf38c90$e6daa5b0$@ranteer.com>
 <CAOc+-dyxXdG2Rxew0gq7XopGVgTbyMxg5Q==Q9i95y6NOMyGEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB53F9E5-E62B-4C6B-9626-E14FE48748A0@gmail.com>

Super job.

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 1:26 PM, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
>    Great fun and encouraging to read this, Dave. There must be some primal satisfaction involved. There certainly is for me, even if poorly understood. My TD got new harnesses. See attached.
> 
>    I am now finishing a TR6 and keeping the original harness, but have replaced most connectors and verified / improved grounds.
>    Next up? My 1971 Volvo 1800E project is getting 'new' self-made dash wiring and engine room harness. Woohoo.
> 
> Rick
> 
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 12:09 PM dave via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> In fact I very much enjoy wiring.  I have built entire wiring harnesses from scratch, carefully following the color scheme.  I will admit on one car I changed it from a 4 fuse system to a 10 fuse system.  Everything had its own fuse and everything was grounded directly.  Never an electrical problem on that car!
> 
> I am now restoring 2 mga?s, albeit one at a time.  I will be emulating the factory harness in every way possible, building it from scratch.  That takes a lot of research and questions, and Barney has been extremely helpful.  Get the right color through the right holes, use the connectors in the right places, all a challenge.  Fortunately the one is my reference as I do the other.
> 
> And, btw, I didn?t start out to restore 2.  Someone offered me a deal I couldn?t refuse on the second one, which needed a new throw out bearing.  But the paint was wrong and so awful we were going to clean it up.  and then . . . .    shipwright?s disease totally got me.  The wiring was so bad (the DPO pretty much just used red and blue wires) that I cut it out and threw it out.
> 
> Today I hope to make some big progress on the chassis (it is half restored, as in the back half), and I?ve got parts hanging in the side yard that I painted this morning.
> 
> From: Mgs On Behalf Of Richard Lindsay
> 
>    Perhaps I'm the only guy who enjoys wiring and electrical systems! I just find it rewarding to get everything connected correctly and the harness bits aligned. Go figure!
> 
>    My TD is simplicity itself but the other LBC project takes some thinking. It's a US specification 1975 TR6. And as we all know, the '70s was a time of turmoil for our LBCs; None the least of which was the electrics! Part of my goal with this car is to create a CORRECT wiring diagram with CORRECT color codes! Nothing I have found published matches my car, including the schematics labeled 'U.S.A. Only'.
> 
>    Still, for a guy like me who builds and restores cars rather than driving them, this is a perfect challenge (storm?)! There are other projects in the queue too, but they are even further OT than Triumph talk...so I will leave Volvo, Lancia, and Jaguar words for others.
> 
> Rick, in Houston
> 
> <20191003_134518.jpg>_______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lawrence.swift at gmail.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200421/3bb514e3/attachment.htm>

From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Apr 24 09:12:12 2020
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:12:12 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] SU Carburetters
Message-ID: <000701d61a4a$bb9c40d0$32d4c270$@ranteer.com>

I have this book which I would like to sell.  Its in very good shape; its
been read a few times but no grease stains, no ripped or missing pages or
anything like that.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Carburetters-Tuning-Tips-Techniques-Covers/dp/18552
02557/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2EM5TU5G9B7E5
<https://smile.amazon.com/Carburetters-Tuning-Tips-Techniques-Covers/dp/1855
202557/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2EM5TU5G9B7E5&dchild=1&keywords=su+carburetor+book&qi
d=1587740909&sprefix=su+carb%2Caps%2C177&sr=8-1>
&dchild=1&keywords=su+carburetor+book&qid=1587740909&sprefix=su+carb%2Caps%2
C177&sr=8-1

 

$12.50 including shipping; paypal, checks, or cash accepted

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200424/15b5c6b2/attachment.htm>

From thgun at comporium.net  Sat Apr 25 04:53:33 2020
From: thgun at comporium.net (Thomas Gunderson)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 06:53:33 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Carb cleaning
Message-ID: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>

What is a good way to clean SU carbs without removing them?

Tom Gunderson
1957 MGA 1500 rst

Sent from my iPhone X



From paul at ece.rochester.edu  Sat Apr 25 06:01:21 2020
From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Osborne, Paul)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 12:01:21 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Carb cleaning
In-Reply-To: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>
References: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>
Message-ID: <D70A931F-6811-4A1B-B07E-59A8B0643AC6@ur.rochester.edu>

Use inexpensive engine cleaner first and a brush followed with some carb cleaner in a can.




On Apr 25, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Thomas Gunderson via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:

What is a good way to clean SU carbs without removing them?

Tom Gunderson
1957 MGA 1500 rst

Sent from my iPhone X


_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
Donate: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_donate.html&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=GtMUnFrbJF3zX_te90QXgwhaZq9XupMpPTre8i19D84&s=66P57169Smq1dmYFbiJH2g3Cc7mrNBeZqfWvqga_DqU&e=
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

Archive: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_pipermail_mgs&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=GtMUnFrbJF3zX_te90QXgwhaZq9XupMpPTre8i19D84&s=4hNrRpyTJgzbYSTlAqbSS8wb4b_bV64kIh3C5_1PAxA&e=  https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_archive&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=GtMUnFrbJF3zX_te90QXgwhaZq9XupMpPTre8i19D84&s=LCkUq0Z10Gt7o7w0_NBmNl1-TMdD4jj09yO8cNopWM8&e=

Unsubscribe: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_mailman_options_mgs_paul-40ece.rochester.edu&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=GtMUnFrbJF3zX_te90QXgwhaZq9XupMpPTre8i19D84&s=7mSFd6Btu4zm2jpBdb9vN9G6Pqm-D3FYxGfxZNMdFSo&e=

Paul Osborne
Department of Electrical and Computer Eng
University of Rochester
201 Hopeman Building RC
Rochester NY 14627
   585-275-5226





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200425/02858ddc/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 06:53:42 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 07:53:42 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Carb cleaning
In-Reply-To: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>
References: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dw1fMcT4tPC7uPuqhQycTqv4=aw_HdvCMCDpUq0JwLj+g@mail.gmail.com>

Paul had some good suggestions and I agree. But Tom, I find myself
pondering over your word 'clean'. Do you mean 'shine them up' or 'remove
deposits from inside'?  Carb cleaner is good for both jobs and let me add a
word or two if cleaning inside is the quest.

I just cleaned the SUs on my TD and doing so made a world of difference.
But first of all, someone here said, "Most carburetor problems are
electrical." That's a funny turn of phrase but it's true. I tuned and tuned
my TD's SUs before putting the timing light on the TD and discovered that
the timing was jumping around. New springs in the distributor's mechanical
advance calmed the jitter making carburetor tuning a one time affair. But
back to cleaning.

I marked the covers for rotation position, removed the damper pistons, and
removed the covers, setting them aside carefully, labeled 'F' and 'R'. I
then lifted out the air pistons complete with needles, dumped out the oil,
and set them aside with their covers.

Using fresh, clean, pipe cleaners wetted with carb cleaner, I carefully ran
the pipe cleaners up and down the jets, switching to a new pipe cleaner as
the previous one became discolored. I then wiped the chokes clean with a
shop rag and carb cleaner. That finished the carb bodies.

I next cleaned the air pistons and needles with carb cleaner and shop rags
paying particular care to protect the needles. I also sprayed carb cleaner
into the damper bore, washing out any old oil. The insides of the covers
were wiped clean and the piston bores were flushed clean.

I live in a very humid climate where rust flashes quickly. I don't know
whether the air pistons and bores are stainless but I took no chances. I
applied 3-in-1 oil to the air pistons and inserted them into the bores in
the covers, coating all with light oil.

Back at the car I verified that the heights of the jets and were the same
then switched on the fuel pump. Petrol came to the top of one jet but not
to the other. I adjusted the float bowl valve until both levels were the
same.

Back in went the air pistons, the covers on and the screws tightened
gradually checking for proper piston drop as they were snugged down. BTW, I
use lockwashers on the carb bowl screws so they don't work loose but more
importantly, so they don't need to be over-tightened.

The rest is tuning. Airflow was balanced and the mixture was reset.

The part I left out was cleaning the needles but that's quite controversial
so let's leave it at, "I cleaned the needles."

And of course, this is just my story, not an authoritative treatise on SU
maintenance. Maybe it helps someone.

Rick

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:54 AM Thomas Gunderson via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> What is a good way to clean SU carbs without removing them?
>
> Tom Gunderson
> 1957 MGA 1500 rst
>
> Sent from my iPhone X
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay at gmail.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200425/9f635cb0/attachment.htm>

From paul at ece.rochester.edu  Sat Apr 25 18:25:47 2020
From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Osborne, Paul)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 00:25:47 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Carb cleaning
In-Reply-To: <CAOc+-dw1fMcT4tPC7uPuqhQycTqv4=aw_HdvCMCDpUq0JwLj+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>
 <CAOc+-dw1fMcT4tPC7uPuqhQycTqv4=aw_HdvCMCDpUq0JwLj+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47552077-5AAC-47B2-B7D5-1F9D8F194E80@ur.rochester.edu>

Rick,   Yes, I wondered what he referred to when he said Clean, thought it might be the outward looks possibly not inside and operational. Good comments below.

paul


On Apr 25, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:

Paul had some good suggestions and I agree. But Tom, I find myself pondering over your word 'clean'. Do you mean 'shine them up' or 'remove deposits from inside'?  Carb cleaner is good for both jobs and let me add a word or two if cleaning inside is the quest.

I just cleaned the SUs on my TD and doing so made a world of difference. But first of all, someone here said, "Most carburetor problems are electrical." That's a funny turn of phrase but it's true. I tuned and tuned my TD's SUs before putting the timing light on the TD and discovered that the timing was jumping around. New springs in the distributor's mechanical advance calmed the jitter making carburetor tuning a one time affair. But back to cleaning.

I marked the covers for rotation position, removed the damper pistons, and removed the covers, setting them aside carefully, labeled 'F' and 'R'. I then lifted out the air pistons complete with needles, dumped out the oil, and set them aside with their covers.

Using fresh, clean, pipe cleaners wetted with carb cleaner, I carefully ran the pipe cleaners up and down the jets, switching to a new pipe cleaner as the previous one became discolored. I then wiped the chokes clean with a shop rag and carb cleaner. That finished the carb bodies.

I next cleaned the air pistons and needles with carb cleaner and shop rags paying particular care to protect the needles. I also sprayed carb cleaner into the damper bore, washing out any old oil. The insides of the covers were wiped clean and the piston bores were flushed clean.

I live in a very humid climate where rust flashes quickly. I don't know whether the air pistons and bores are stainless but I took no chances. I applied 3-in-1 oil to the air pistons and inserted them into the bores in the covers, coating all with light oil.

Back at the car I verified that the heights of the jets and were the same then switched on the fuel pump. Petrol came to the top of one jet but not to the other. I adjusted the float bowl valve until both levels were the same.

Back in went the air pistons, the covers on and the screws tightened gradually checking for proper piston drop as they were snugged down. BTW, I use lockwashers on the carb bowl screws so they don't work loose but more importantly, so they don't need to be over-tightened.

The rest is tuning. Airflow was balanced and the mixture was reset.

The part I left out was cleaning the needles but that's quite controversial so let's leave it at, "I cleaned the needles."

And of course, this is just my story, not an authoritative treatise on SU maintenance. Maybe it helps someone.

Rick

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:54 AM Thomas Gunderson via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>> wrote:
What is a good way to clean SU carbs without removing them?

Tom Gunderson
1957 MGA 1500 rst

Sent from my iPhone X


_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_donate.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=TDsMemspzCHAKPUiK8oXsjoucwPjSkKxdALG90HybX4&e=>
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_pipermail_mgs&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=0CFlaGSdnyxzieb0DW7kDjD5C9spcRXALkW1DjTxd20&e=> http://autox.team.net/archive<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_archive&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=U1nL_5XCzSB2sukUiIuMbt6zYVHwDAEwO_Gh4XJJLvg&e=>

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay at gmail.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_mailman_options_mgs_richardolindsay-40gmail.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=s72j6IJ0gb_YTkwqMlVx2lYadn-uGjNRzOoJx8kg0cM&e=>
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net<mailto:Mgs at autox.team.net>
Donate: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_donate.html&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=TDsMemspzCHAKPUiK8oXsjoucwPjSkKxdALG90HybX4&e=
Suggested annual donation  $12.75

Archive: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_pipermail_mgs&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=0CFlaGSdnyxzieb0DW7kDjD5C9spcRXALkW1DjTxd20&e=  https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_archive&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=U1nL_5XCzSB2sukUiIuMbt6zYVHwDAEwO_Gh4XJJLvg&e=

Unsubscribe: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_mailman_options_mgs_paul-40ece.rochester.edu&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=Sm95m6yWseMeg0n1hyRfom980c44_6ewDCVhETtdoJ8&e=

Paul Osborne
Department of Electrical and Computer Eng
University of Rochester
201 Hopeman Building RC
Rochester NY 14627
   585-275-5226





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200426/ca58d55c/attachment.htm>

From richardolindsay at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 19:03:07 2020
From: richardolindsay at gmail.com (Richard Lindsay)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:03:07 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Carb cleaning
In-Reply-To: <47552077-5AAC-47B2-B7D5-1F9D8F194E80@ur.rochester.edu>
References: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>
 <CAOc+-dw1fMcT4tPC7uPuqhQycTqv4=aw_HdvCMCDpUq0JwLj+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <47552077-5AAC-47B2-B7D5-1F9D8F194E80@ur.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOc+-dzmxGgZd=mgw0d=nVCr_nzvGEECSh-dP2tJwq=5D-DWyQ@mail.gmail.com>

I love SUs. They are elegant machines that solve dynamic problems that
later will be solved by computer algorithms!

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 7:25 PM Osborne, Paul <paul at ece.rochester.edu> wrote:

> Rick,   Yes, I wondered what he referred to when he said Clean, thought it
> might be the outward looks possibly not inside and operational. Good
> comments below.
>
> paul
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Richard Lindsay via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> Paul had some good suggestions and I agree. But Tom, I find myself
> pondering over your word 'clean'. Do you mean 'shine them up' or 'remove
> deposits from inside'?  Carb cleaner is good for both jobs and let me add a
> word or two if cleaning inside is the quest.
>
> I just cleaned the SUs on my TD and doing so made a world of difference.
> But first of all, someone here said, "Most carburetor problems are
> electrical." That's a funny turn of phrase but it's true. I tuned and tuned
> my TD's SUs before putting the timing light on the TD and discovered that
> the timing was jumping around. New springs in the distributor's mechanical
> advance calmed the jitter making carburetor tuning a one time affair. But
> back to cleaning.
>
> I marked the covers for rotation position, removed the damper pistons, and
> removed the covers, setting them aside carefully, labeled 'F' and 'R'. I
> then lifted out the air pistons complete with needles, dumped out the oil,
> and set them aside with their covers.
>
> Using fresh, clean, pipe cleaners wetted with carb cleaner, I carefully
> ran the pipe cleaners up and down the jets, switching to a new pipe cleaner
> as the previous one became discolored. I then wiped the chokes clean with a
> shop rag and carb cleaner. That finished the carb bodies.
>
> I next cleaned the air pistons and needles with carb cleaner and shop rags
> paying particular care to protect the needles. I also sprayed carb cleaner
> into the damper bore, washing out any old oil. The insides of the covers
> were wiped clean and the piston bores were flushed clean.
>
> I live in a very humid climate where rust flashes quickly. I don't know
> whether the air pistons and bores are stainless but I took no chances. I
> applied 3-in-1 oil to the air pistons and inserted them into the bores in
> the covers, coating all with light oil.
>
> Back at the car I verified that the heights of the jets and were the same
> then switched on the fuel pump. Petrol came to the top of one jet but not
> to the other. I adjusted the float bowl valve until both levels were the
> same.
>
> Back in went the air pistons, the covers on and the screws tightened
> gradually checking for proper piston drop as they were snugged down. BTW, I
> use lockwashers on the carb bowl screws so they don't work loose but more
> importantly, so they don't need to be over-tightened.
>
> The rest is tuning. Airflow was balanced and the mixture was reset.
>
> The part I left out was cleaning the needles but that's quite
> controversial so let's leave it at, "I cleaned the needles."
>
> And of course, this is just my story, not an authoritative treatise on SU
> maintenance. Maybe it helps someone.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:54 AM Thomas Gunderson via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> What is a good way to clean SU carbs without removing them?
>>
>> Tom Gunderson
>> 1957 MGA 1500 rst
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone X
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_donate.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=TDsMemspzCHAKPUiK8oXsjoucwPjSkKxdALG90HybX4&e=>
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_pipermail_mgs&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=0CFlaGSdnyxzieb0DW7kDjD5C9spcRXALkW1DjTxd20&e=>
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_archive&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=U1nL_5XCzSB2sukUiIuMbt6zYVHwDAEwO_Gh4XJJLvg&e=>
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richardolindsay at gmail.com
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_mailman_options_mgs_richardolindsay-40gmail.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=s72j6IJ0gb_YTkwqMlVx2lYadn-uGjNRzOoJx8kg0cM&e=>
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_donate.html&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=TDsMemspzCHAKPUiK8oXsjoucwPjSkKxdALG90HybX4&e=
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_pipermail_mgs&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=0CFlaGSdnyxzieb0DW7kDjD5C9spcRXALkW1DjTxd20&e=
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_archive&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=U1nL_5XCzSB2sukUiIuMbt6zYVHwDAEwO_Gh4XJJLvg&e=
>
> Unsubscribe:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__autox.team.net_mailman_options_mgs_paul-40ece.rochester.edu&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=j_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&m=wgCpvTNH3M_WmxQEBLZBx8BpHo_C-Qx_WC8viTrC2QE&s=Sm95m6yWseMeg0n1hyRfom980c44_6ewDCVhETtdoJ8&e=
>
>
> Paul Osborne
> Department of Electrical and Computer Eng
> University of Rochester
> 201 Hopeman Building RC
> Rochester NY 14627
>
>    585-275-5226
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200425/4700a03f/attachment.htm>

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Sat Apr 25 09:19:56 2020
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 16:19:56 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Carb cleaning
References: <BB95C4FC-4E2B-4D41-8C94-7B924DE9089C@comporium.net>
Message-ID: <4C326D05FF8A442587C06055D4F09708@paul>

Depends how far you want to go.  Aerosol carb cleaner will blast external 
oil/grime off the bodies and linkages as it (what we get in the UK anyway) 
is more powerful than other aerosols.  But it won't shine them up, just 
leave the alloy much the same as it was before they got mucky i.e. anything 
from polished to oxidised.

If you want to go further you can take the covers off, noting which came off 
each carb, and take the pistons out - carefully - again noting which came 
from each carb.  The carb cleaner will blast black combustion residue off 
both in my experience, and from the inside of the body.  There is a slight 
risk of pushing something into the jets that shouldn't be there with that 
last part, unless you plug them with something like a toothpick perhaps.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

> What is a good way to clean SU carbs without removing them?
>


From palte at gmx.net  Sun Apr 26 04:27:33 2020
From: palte at gmx.net (palte)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 12:27:33 +0200
Subject: [Mgs] Carb cleaning
In-Reply-To: <4C326D05FF8A442587C06055D4F09708@paul>
Message-ID: <1MEm2D-1jQiZY1EXD-00GKfs@mail.gmx.com>

IIRC, when the carbs were new, they were not shiny, just dull.Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> Datum: 25-04-2020  17:19  (GMT+01:00) Aan: Thomas Gunderson <thgun at comporium.net>, mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Carb cleaning Depends how far you want to go.? Aerosol carb cleaner will blast external oil/grime off the bodies and linkages as it (what we get in the UK anyway) is more powerful than other aerosols.? But it won't shine them up, just leave the alloy much the same as it was before they got mucky i.e. anything from polished to oxidised.If you want to go further you can take the covers off, noting which came off each carb, and take the pistons out - carefully - again noting which came from each carb.? The carb cleaner will blast black combustion residue off both in my experience, and from the inside of the body.? There is a slight risk of pushing something into the jets that shouldn't be there with that last part, unless you plug them with something like a toothpick perhaps.PaulH.----- Original Message ----- > What is a good way to clean SU carbs without removing them?>_______________________________________________Mgs at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlSuggested annual donation? $12.75Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archiveUnsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte at gmx.net
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/mgs/attachments/20200426/aaf6e38f/attachment.htm>

From jimray at hartcom.net  Thu Apr 30 11:30:29 2020
From: jimray at hartcom.net (Jim Ray)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:30:29 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Rubber bumper removal
Message-ID: <11850a12-434a-2a20-b027-6b9d798adbc3@hartcom.net>

Looking for something to fill up my day since COVID-19 is keeping me at 
home. Thought I would convert my 1980 MGB from rubber to chrome bumpers. 
Have had the parts for several years just need to begin the project. 
Front seems easy to remove but don't know where the blots are for the 
rear. Can anyone help?

Thanks and everyone stay safe.

Jim