From britfan1 at epix.net Mon Jan 22 08:42:01 2024 From: britfan1 at epix.net (S.Carr) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:42:01 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MGA question Message-ID: <2062972099.3822823.1705938125510@epix.net> Anyone know the weights of an MGA 1500 engine (w/o carbs, manifolds) and an MGA gearbox? Need an estimate for shipping, and have no way of weighing here. Thanks! Sarah Carr ?71 B/GT in PA Sent from Mail for Windows -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulbhunt73 at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 09:45:30 2024 From: paulbhunt73 at gmail.com (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 16:45:30 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] MGA question In-Reply-To: <2062972099.3822823.1705938125510@epix.net> References: <2062972099.3822823.1705938125510@epix.net> Message-ID: MGA Guru site? https://mgaguru.com/ On 22/01/2024 15:42, S.Carr wrote: > > Anyone know the weights of an _MGA_1500 engine (w/o carbs, manifolds) > and an _MGA_?gearbox? ?Need an estimate for shipping, and have no way > of weighing here. > > Thanks! > > Sarah Carr > > ?71 B/GT in PA > > Sent from Mail for > Windows > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulbhunt73 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ejrussell61 at gmail.com Mon Jan 22 13:55:16 2024 From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 15:55:16 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 200, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > Anyone know the weights of an MGA 1500 engine (w/o carbs, manifolds) > and an MGA gearbox? Need an estimate for shipping, and have no way of > weighing here. > > Thanks! > > Sarah Carr Bare engine is approx 400 lbs, gearbox approx 70 lbs. EjR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stargazer1 at cox.net Fri Jan 26 13:19:14 2024 From: stargazer1 at cox.net (David Ambrose) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 12:19:14 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Books -- Free to a good home Message-ID: <42293f78-5a94-46f2-b491-a9e8cb48d785@cox.net> Hey everyone, One of the few regrets I have is selling my MGA. While getting another one would be desirable, it's also highly unlikely. I have some MGA books and magazines that should find their way to a better home. They are free, just pick up the postage. I have * Haynes MGA Workshop ManualMGA, A History and Restoration Guide * MGA Roadsters, 1955-1962 * 5 issues of MGA! from the North American MGA Register Just pay the media mail postage and they're yours. Cheers, Dave Ambrose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stargazer1 at cox.net Fri Jan 26 13:39:34 2024 From: stargazer1 at cox.net (David Ambrose) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 12:39:34 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Books -- Free to a good home In-Reply-To: <42293f78-5a94-46f2-b491-a9e8cb48d785@cox.net> References: <42293f78-5a94-46f2-b491-a9e8cb48d785@cox.net> Message-ID: <344916b6-10d7-45a5-a8ba-f28d8dbf0893@cox.net> That was quick, they are spoken for. Cheers, Dave On 1/26/2024 12:19 PM, David Ambrose wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > One of the few regrets I have is selling my MGA. While getting another > one would be desirable, it's also highly unlikely. I have some MGA > books and magazines that should find their way to a better home. They > are free, just pick up the postage. > > I have > > * Haynes MGA Workshop ManualMGA, A History and Restoration Guide > * MGA Roadsters, 1955-1962 > * 5 issues of MGA! from the North American MGA Register > > Just pay the media mail postage and they're yours. > > Cheers, > Dave Ambrose > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/stargazer1 at cox.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Sat Jan 27 02:05:42 2024 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:05:42 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MGA Books -- Free to a good home In-Reply-To: <344916b6-10d7-45a5-a8ba-f28d8dbf0893@cox.net> References: <42293f78-5a94-46f2-b491-a9e8cb48d785@cox.net> <344916b6-10d7-45a5-a8ba-f28d8dbf0893@cox.net> Message-ID: <000001da5100$01d66a90$05833fb0$@planet.nl> Thanks for all the nice posts Dave! Cheers, Hans Van: Mgs Namens David Ambrose Verzonden: vrijdag 26 januari 2024 21:40 Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] MGA Books -- Free to a good home That was quick, they are spoken for. Cheers, Dave On 1/26/2024 12:19 PM, David Ambrose wrote: Hey everyone, One of the few regrets I have is selling my MGA. While getting another one would be desirable, it's also highly unlikely. I have some MGA books and magazines that should find their way to a better home. They are free, just pick up the postage. I have * Haynes MGA Workshop ManualMGA, A History and Restoration Guide * MGA Roadsters, 1955-1962 * 5 issues of MGA! from the North American MGA Register Just pay the media mail postage and they're yours. Cheers, Dave Ambrose _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/stargazer1 at cox.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at ranteer.com Mon Jan 29 14:17:05 2024 From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 21:17:05 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car Message-ID: <0f72075bfd104e2cae152742e7817d03@ranteer.com> We have a 75 that came to us with a Rover V8 engine with a We want to lower it, and I'm wondering where that process is documented. Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulbhunt73 at gmail.com Tue Jan 30 01:59:31 2024 From: paulbhunt73 at gmail.com (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 08:59:31 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: <0f72075bfd104e2cae152742e7817d03@ranteer.com> References: <0f72075bfd104e2cae152742e7817d03@ranteer.com> Message-ID: Have you tried Googling?? I see quite a few articles including YouTubes as well as ads for kits. Basically lowered springs and bump stops at the front.? At the rear flattened springs or spacer blocks between axle and spring, CB pedestals, damper drop-links and rebound straps may also be required. PaulH On 29/01/2024 21:17, dave northrup wrote: > > We have a 75 that came to us with a Rover V8 engine with a > > We want to lower it, and I?m wondering where that process is documented. > > Thanks! > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulbhunt73 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcouncill at karamursel.org Tue Jan 30 15:20:21 2024 From: dcouncill at karamursel.org (dcouncill) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 14:20:21 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: <0f72075bfd104e2cae152742e7817d03@ranteer.com> Message-ID: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> I don't think there is much to the process for the lowering itself. Several vendors sell kits with the blocks, springs, and associated parts such as Moss:https://mossmotors.com/264-399-rubber-bumper-mgb-suspension-lowering-kitThen it's just a matter of removal and replacement.?David Councill?67 BGT, 64 B, 72B -------- Original message --------From: dave northrup Date: 1/29/24 13:39 (GMT-08:00) To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car We have a 75 that came to us with a Rover V8 engine with a ? We want to lower it, and I?m wondering where that process is documented. ? Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulbhunt73 at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 01:28:50 2024 From: paulbhunt73 at gmail.com (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 08:28:50 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> References: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com> Incidentally, watching a Richard Hammond's Workshop episode (a couple of years old) last night where they took a lowered GT up Prescott and round a hairpin there was a bang - just a demo run, not timed.? Opinion was it was something to do with the rack as when lowered the steering arms are no longer parallel to the ground.? That also causes bump steer. PaulH. On 30/01/2024 22:20, dcouncill wrote: > I don't think there is much to the process for the lowering itself. > Several vendors sell kits with the blocks, springs, and associated > parts such as Moss: > https://mossmotors.com/264-399-rubber-bumper-mgb-suspension-lowering-kit > Then it's just a matter of removal and replacement. > > David Councill > 67 BGT, 64 B, 72B > From mvheim at sonic.net Wed Jan 31 10:00:28 2024 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 09:00:28 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com> References: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com> Message-ID: I can see how using cut-down springs, for example, could change the geometry. But what I am wondering is why one couldn?t just install the entire front suspension from a CB car, including the crossmember, thereby duplicating the ride height and geometry of the original design? I don?t believe the RB cars changed the tub or the attachment points of the crossmember, did they? It?s possible that I don?t know what I?m talking about, however ? I have never had anything to do with RBs. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Jan 31, 2024, at 12:28 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > > Incidentally, watching a Richard Hammond's Workshop episode (a couple of years old) last night where they took a lowered GT up Prescott and round a hairpin there was a bang - just a demo run, not timed. Opinion was it was something to do with the rack as when lowered the steering arms are no longer parallel to the ground. That also causes bump steer. > > PaulH. > > On 30/01/2024 22:20, dcouncill wrote: >> I don't think there is much to the process for the lowering itself. Several vendors sell kits with the blocks, springs, and associated parts such as Moss: >> https://mossmotors.com/264-399-rubber-bumper-mgb-suspension-lowering-kit >> Then it's just a matter of removal and replacement. >> >> David Councill >> 67 BGT, 64 B, 72B >> > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net > From jimray at hartcom.net Wed Jan 31 10:32:05 2024 From: jimray at hartcom.net (Jim Ray) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 12:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: References: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <352014E9-1B3B-204A-B73C-041E5898D447@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimray at hartcom.net Wed Jan 31 11:48:28 2024 From: jimray at hartcom.net (jimray at hartcom.net) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 13:48:28 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: References: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003101da5476$14fed4d0$3efc7e70$@hartcom.net> Guys, I found this 2019 post from Ron Looye on the www.mgexp.com forum which may be of help in deciding which springs to use. "Choose your front springs for a lower ride height or more aggressive spring rats. Remember to match your rear springs to your front springs. We've listed approximate heights for each spring on a chrome bumper car: GT heights will be slightly lower than listed, and rubber bumper cars will be about 3/4 inch higher than listed. Springs are sold individually." Rate Height Moss # Price ea. ROAD/UPRATED 480# 14.0" 264-385 $39.95 ROAD/LOWERED 550# 13.8" 264-387 $52.95 ROAD/SPRINT #550 13.4" 264-395 $49.95 RACE #660 13.2" 264-335 $99.95 I used the #660 race springs on mine and they worked well for me. I'm 6 feet tall so getting in and out is a bit challenging but the look of the car is just what I was going for. The car drives amazingly with no over/under steering issues. Be sure to replace the bump stops with part number 266-590. See the attached photo to see if the ride height is what you are looking for. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Mgs On Behalf Of Max Heim Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 12:00 PM To: mglist Subject: Re: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car I can see how using cut-down springs, for example, could change the geometry. But what I am wondering is why one couldn?t just install the entire front suspension from a CB car, including the crossmember, thereby duplicating the ride height and geometry of the original design? I don?t believe the RB cars changed the tub or the attachment points of the crossmember, did they? It?s possible that I don?t know what I?m talking about, however ? I have never had anything to do with RBs. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Jan 31, 2024, at 12:28 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > > Incidentally, watching a Richard Hammond's Workshop episode (a couple of years old) last night where they took a lowered GT up Prescott and round a hairpin there was a bang - just a demo run, not timed. Opinion was it was something to do with the rack as when lowered the steering arms are no longer parallel to the ground. That also causes bump steer. > > PaulH. > > On 30/01/2024 22:20, dcouncill wrote: >> I don't think there is much to the process for the lowering itself. Several vendors sell kits with the blocks, springs, and associated parts such as Moss: >> https://mossmotors.com/264-399-rubber-bumper-mgb-suspension-lowering- >> kit Then it's just a matter of removal and replacement. >> >> David Councill >> 67 BGT, 64 B, 72B >> > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation > $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net > _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/jimray at hartcom.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20230807_105353.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4820967 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lrc at red4est.com Wed Jan 31 12:46:07 2024 From: lrc at red4est.com (Larry Colen) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 11:46:07 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: <352014E9-1B3B-204A-B73C-041E5898D447@hxcore.ol> References: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com> <352014E9-1B3B-204A-B73C-041E5898D447@hxcore.ol> Message-ID: <1D8FD5D6-B75A-4E3C-A473-F84595302B94@red4est.com> > On Jan 31, 2024, at 9:32 AM, Jim Ray wrote: > > Guys, I think you are over thinking this. > When I lowered my 1980 MGB I used springs and lowering blocks from Moss (264-399). The only problem was bump steer which was corrected with shortened bump stops (266-590). I have never had any issues with steering behavior. This was about 10 years ago. Interesting, you've read some different books than I have on suspension design and modification (Fred Puhn's "how to make your car handle" and Carroll Smith's "Tune etc. to win" books. My understanding is that the job of a bump stop is to smooth out the non-linearity when the suspension bottoms out. Rather than suddenly going from a lot of compliance, to zero compliance, when it touches the rubber bumpstop it gradually transitions from "soft" springs to "very stiff" springs. Bump, and roll, steer is caused by the arm from the steering rack changing angle differently than the suspension arm causing the wheel to turn as the wheel rises, or falls in relation to the chassis. Bump steer has nothing to do with the bump stops, unless you're leaned over so hard that you are on the bump stops, so that the suspension angle then changes very little. Many years ago, I had a 1980ish Corolla that I had bought for something like $400. Since it was effectively impossible for me to do more than $400 worth of damage to it, It was my track car for when I was teaching. http://www.red4est.com/lrc/racer_html/schoolpix.html I put some "take offs" from the Cortina I was racing on it and beat the snot out of it. Most of the Toyotas that I've driven have egregiously bad roll steer, and this one also had worn out springs, and well I called them shock observers, because all they seemed to do was notice that the car was bouncing up and down. My technique when driving that car was to take a very had and aggressive turndown so that the car very quickly went from softly sprung on the straights, to using the bump stops as my suspension (anybody remember formula 440?). Once it was on the bump stops, roll steer wasn't a problem because the lean angle, and thus the steering, didn't change much. -- Larry Colen lrc at red4est.com sent from ret13est From mvheim at sonic.net Wed Jan 31 14:16:01 2024 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 13:16:01 -0800 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: <003101da5476$14fed4d0$3efc7e70$@hartcom.net> References: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com> <003101da5476$14fed4d0$3efc7e70$@hartcom.net> Message-ID: Ron seems to be describing springs for lowering a car just to be lower ? either for handling or appearance ? a process that changes the spring rates as well as the height. This is a different project than trying to change the ride height of a rubber bumper MG to match that of a chrome bumper MG. Or so it seems to me. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Jan 31, 2024, at 10:48 AM, wrote: > > Guys, I found this 2019 post from Ron Looye on the www.mgexp.com forum which may be of help in deciding which springs to use. > > "Choose your front springs for a lower ride height or more aggressive spring rats. Remember to match your rear springs to your front springs. We've listed approximate heights for each spring on a chrome bumper car: GT heights will be slightly lower than listed, and rubber bumper cars will be about 3/4 inch higher than listed. Springs are sold individually." > > Rate Height Moss # Price ea. > ROAD/UPRATED 480# 14.0" 264-385 $39.95 > ROAD/LOWERED 550# 13.8" 264-387 $52.95 > ROAD/SPRINT #550 13.4" 264-395 $49.95 > RACE #660 13.2" 264-335 $99.95 > > I used the #660 race springs on mine and they worked well for me. I'm 6 feet tall so getting in and out is a bit challenging but the look of the car is just what I was going for. The car drives amazingly with no over/under steering issues. Be sure to replace the bump stops with part number 266-590. See the attached photo to see if the ride height is what you are looking for. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mgs > On Behalf Of Max Heim > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 12:00 PM > To: mglist > > Subject: Re: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car > > I can see how using cut-down springs, for example, could change the geometry. But what I am wondering is why one couldn?t just install the entire front suspension from a CB car, including the crossmember, thereby duplicating the ride height and geometry of the original design? I don?t believe the RB cars changed the tub or the attachment points of the crossmember, did they? It?s possible that I don?t know what I?m talking about, however ? I have never had anything to do with RBs. > > -- > Max Heim > '66 MGB > > >> On Jan 31, 2024, at 12:28 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: >> >> Incidentally, watching a Richard Hammond's Workshop episode (a couple of years old) last night where they took a lowered GT up Prescott and round a hairpin there was a bang - just a demo run, not timed. Opinion was it was something to do with the rack as when lowered the steering arms are no longer parallel to the ground. That also causes bump steer. >> >> PaulH. >> >> On 30/01/2024 22:20, dcouncill wrote: >>> I don't think there is much to the process for the lowering itself. Several vendors sell kits with the blocks, springs, and associated parts such as Moss: >>> https://mossmotors.com/264-399-rubber-bumper-mgb-suspension-lowering- >>> kit Then it's just a matter of removal and replacement. >>> >>> David Councill >>> 67 BGT, 64 B, 72B >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation >> $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/jimray at hartcom.net > <20230807_105353.jpg> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From charleyrob at gmail.com Wed Jan 31 15:17:06 2024 From: charleyrob at gmail.com (Charley Robinson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 17:17:06 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] lowering rubber bumper car In-Reply-To: <1D8FD5D6-B75A-4E3C-A473-F84595302B94@red4est.com> References: <65b97629.170a0220.f7c8d.3baf@mx.google.com> <1f465f8b-115b-4e5a-8c2e-91b7b606f5fe@gmail.com> <352014E9-1B3B-204A-B73C-041E5898D447@hxcore.ol> <1D8FD5D6-B75A-4E3C-A473-F84595302B94@red4est.com> Message-ID: Good insight on bump steer Larry. And thanks for the cool photos! Charley > On Jan 31, 2024, at 2:46 PM, Larry Colen wrote: > > > >> On Jan 31, 2024, at 9:32 AM, Jim Ray wrote: >> >> Guys, I think you are over thinking this. >> When I lowered my 1980 MGB I used springs and lowering blocks from Moss (264-399). The only problem was bump steer which was corrected with shortened bump stops (266-590). I have never had any issues with steering behavior. This was about 10 years ago. > > Interesting, you've read some different books than I have on suspension design and modification (Fred Puhn's "how to make your car handle" and Carroll Smith's "Tune etc. to win" books. > > My understanding is that the job of a bump stop is to smooth out the non-linearity when the suspension bottoms out. Rather than suddenly going from a lot of compliance, to zero compliance, when it touches the rubber bumpstop it gradually transitions from "soft" springs to "very stiff" springs. > > Bump, and roll, steer is caused by the arm from the steering rack changing angle differently than the suspension arm causing the wheel to turn as the wheel rises, or falls in relation to the chassis. Bump steer has nothing to do with the bump stops, unless you're leaned over so hard that you are on the bump stops, so that the suspension angle then changes very little. > > Many years ago, I had a 1980ish Corolla that I had bought for something like $400. Since it was effectively impossible for me to do more than $400 worth of damage to it, It was my track car for when I was teaching. > > http://www.red4est.com/lrc/racer_html/schoolpix.html > > I put some "take offs" from the Cortina I was racing on it and beat the snot out of it. Most of the Toyotas that I've driven have egregiously bad roll steer, and this one also had worn out springs, and well I called them shock observers, because all they seemed to do was notice that the car was bouncing up and down. My technique when driving that car was to take a very had and aggressive turndown so that the car very quickly went from softly sprung on the straights, to using the bump stops as my suspension (anybody remember formula 440?). Once it was on the bump stops, roll steer wasn't a problem because the lean angle, and thus the steering, didn't change much. > > -- > Larry Colen > lrc at red4est.com sent from ret13est > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/charleyrob at gmail.com