From james.f.juhas at snet.net  Thu Aug  1 08:06:04 2019
From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (Jim Juhas)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 10:06:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>

I used PEX on my kitchen remodel in 2011. Maybe I didn't know any better but I used the crimp rings on hot and cold sides, run to the icemaker, feed to dishwasher. Everything is still intact. Only downside is that PEX under the sink isn't as pretty as copper.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:35 PM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> The union in the photograph doesn?t look terrible to me.  I?ve certainly successfully worked with worse.  If only to buy you some time, it can?t hurt to wrap a couple of extra turns of teflon tape around the new fitting - or goober it up with pipe dope - and see if it works.
> 
> That isn?t to say that a re-plumb isn?t in your future. The clogged pipe looks pretty scary.  I haven?t worked much with PEX, but have watched plumbers using it and am pretty impressed.  None of the pros seem to use crimpers for their connections, and they tell me they don?t trust crimped connections.  They use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2432-22-12-Volt-Propex-Expansion/dp/B0048EJX7U/ref=sr_1_1?crid=20YNES0KKJ2KB&keywords=milwaukee+pex+expander+tool&qid=1564536668&s=hi&sprefix=Milwaukee+pex%2Ctools%2C127&sr=1-1.  There are manual versions of this for sale, but I am sure this is the way to go if you are doing a fair amount of work. 
> 
> I have also been told by professionals that Shark Bite fittings are really good.  They are expensive if you are doing a lot of work, but a good way connecting PEX to other forms of pipe.
> 
> Jim
> 
>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:01 PM, Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> 
>> So I cut out enough sheetrock to get some wrenching room, got the old pipes out without too much trouble.  I sprayed a few of the joints with WD40 a few times, maybe that helped, maybe it didn't.
>> 
>> 
>> So now the question is can I get the sealing face that rusty old union cleaned up enough to get a good seal, or am I going to have to replace it too, which might mean tearing into the wall in the next room.  Or maybe not.
>> 
>> And then, this project has got me thinking.  It might be my cue to buy a roll of PEX, a cutter and a crimper and start using it to fix this problem and the next one on my list, the washing machine.  At the moment when you select a hot water wash, the machine fills up at a rate of about a gallon a day.  Is it just the fill hose being clogged, or the valve, or the pipes feeding it?  Fun fun fun!
>> 
>> mjb.
>> 
>> 
>> <20190730_183454.jpg>_______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james.f.juhas at snet.net
> 


From patintexas at icloud.com  Thu Aug  1 08:52:24 2019
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:52:24 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
Message-ID: <63608C84-AE66-4771-85B9-9BF9B3064857@icloud.com>

My understanding is that plumbers use the expansion method of termination because it is easier, faster & cheaper. They also don?t need to stock the crimp rings. 

I plumbed my shop w/apartment (4 sinks, 1 shower, 1 tub, 1 washer, 2 toilets & 2 hose bibs)using PEX & crimp rings. It was cheap & easy. That was a year ago & I have no leaks. 

In my house I used some shark bite connectors on a copper pipe & it started leaking. 

My use is just a single point but it worked fine for me.  YMMV

peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 1, 2019, at 9:06 AM, Jim Juhas via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

I used PEX on my kitchen remodel in 2011. Maybe I didn't know any better but I used the crimp rings on hot and cold sides, run to the icemaker, feed to dishwasher. Everything is still intact. Only downside is that PEX under the sink isn't as pretty as copper.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:35 PM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> The union in the photograph doesn?t look terrible to me.  I?ve certainly successfully worked with worse.  If only to buy you some time, it can?t hurt to wrap a couple of extra turns of teflon tape around the new fitting - or goober it up with pipe dope - and see if it works.
> 
> That isn?t to say that a re-plumb isn?t in your future. The clogged pipe looks pretty scary.  I haven?t worked much with PEX, but have watched plumbers using it and am pretty impressed.  None of the pros seem to use crimpers for their connections, and they tell me they don?t trust crimped connections.  They use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2432-22-12-Volt-Propex-Expansion/dp/B0048EJX7U/ref=sr_1_1?crid=20YNES0KKJ2KB&keywords=milwaukee+pex+expander+tool&qid=1564536668&s=hi&sprefix=Milwaukee+pex%2Ctools%2C127&sr=1-1.  There are manual versions of this for sale, but I am sure this is the way to go if you are doing a fair amount of work. 
> 
> I have also been told by professionals that Shark Bite fittings are really good.  They are expensive if you are doing a lot of work, but a good way connecting PEX to other forms of pipe.
> 
> Jim
> 
>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:01 PM, Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> 
>> So I cut out enough sheetrock to get some wrenching room, got the old pipes out without too much trouble.  I sprayed a few of the joints with WD40 a few times, maybe that helped, maybe it didn't.
>> 
>> 
>> So now the question is can I get the sealing face that rusty old union cleaned up enough to get a good seal, or am I going to have to replace it too, which might mean tearing into the wall in the next room.  Or maybe not.
>> 
>> And then, this project has got me thinking.  It might be my cue to buy a roll of PEX, a cutter and a crimper and start using it to fix this problem and the next one on my list, the washing machine.  At the moment when you select a hot water wash, the machine fills up at a rate of about a gallon a day.  Is it just the fill hose being clogged, or the valve, or the pipes feeding it?  Fun fun fun!
>> 
>> mjb.
>> 
>> 
>> <20190730_183454.jpg>_______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james.f.juhas at snet.net
> 

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com



From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Thu Aug  1 11:54:50 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 17:54:50 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] PEX.....was Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>,
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB2233248ED6D5E15999AB4EAEB4DE0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

We recently changed insurance companies for home and auto. The home basically came along with the auto to get an even better discount than auto alone.

Anyway, I was told by the agent that the home insurance company would have denied us coverage if I had any pex in my house.

Has anyone heard of this? I though pex was the latest and greatest.....


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From jem at milleredp.com  Thu Aug  1 12:26:49 2019
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 11:26:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] PEX.....was Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB2233248ED6D5E15999AB4EAEB4DE0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
 <DM6PR13MB2233248ED6D5E15999AB4EAEB4DE0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <3387f338-b334-a67d-41ed-a93605516892@milleredp.com>


> Anyway, I was told by the agent that the home insurance company would 
> have denied us coverage if I had any pex in my house.
>
PEX, or the earlier plastics?

Some of the earlier stuff is a disaster waiting to happen, but my 
understanding is that PEX is pretty much accepted under UPC everywhere.

John.

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu Aug  1 14:45:54 2019
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:45:54 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd:  Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5surUyqH7JZD-BAsGq2qv1=UaNKfjb+ZsFBWtLAfbtoq-BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
 <63608C84-AE66-4771-85B9-9BF9B3064857@icloud.com>
 <CA+k5surUyqH7JZD-BAsGq2qv1=UaNKfjb+ZsFBWtLAfbtoq-BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5suqS34nm3Ch1kka6CRvKi4svNH6_RP927ANrKx8OqPy0uQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:00 AM Pat Horne via Shop-talk
<shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> My understanding is that plumbers use the expansion method of termination because it is easier, faster & cheaper. They also don?t need to stock the crimp rings.


There are other advantages, for one expansion fittings are closer to
full flow.  It also requires good quality tubing (pex-a), and not the
cheap stuff on offer at the borg. It's also possible to tell visually
inspect the joint and see that the fitting is properly installed.  The
joints also tend to get stronger over time,as the pex wants to
contract to its original diameter, so it grabs tighter on the fitting.
Expansion fittings do require an expansion ring, so they do have extra
parts to stock.


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org  Fri Aug  2 06:04:09 2019
From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (Ian McFetridge)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 08:04:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5suqS34nm3Ch1kka6CRvKi4svNH6_RP927ANrKx8OqPy0uQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
 <63608C84-AE66-4771-85B9-9BF9B3064857@icloud.com>
 <CA+k5surUyqH7JZD-BAsGq2qv1=UaNKfjb+ZsFBWtLAfbtoq-BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+k5suqS34nm3Ch1kka6CRvKi4svNH6_RP927ANrKx8OqPy0uQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFnfnRUkHsgV54nayT-m=Eu4dMoCtS6fLg-2F_UPZ02LFNVzQA@mail.gmail.com>

My house has some of these fittings that I had never seen before:
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Plumbing-Installation/Press-Tools
They're thicker than normal fittings and have an o-ring that is clamped
down on the pipe to form a seal.   I've not seen leaks at any of them, but
I wonder how that o-ring will age (hoping it is something more stable than
natural rubber!)  They're kind of like a hybrid of the pex crimping, but on
copper

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 4:46 PM David Scheidt via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:00 AM Pat Horne via Shop-talk
> <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> >
> > My understanding is that plumbers use the expansion method of
> termination because it is easier, faster & cheaper. They also don?t need to
> stock the crimp rings.
>
>
> There are other advantages, for one expansion fittings are closer to
> full flow.  It also requires good quality tubing (pex-a), and not the
> cheap stuff on offer at the borg. It's also possible to tell visually
> inspect the joint and see that the fitting is properly installed.  The
> joints also tend to get stronger over time,as the pex wants to
> contract to its original diameter, so it grabs tighter on the fitting.
> Expansion fittings do require an expansion ring, so they do have extra
> parts to stock.
>
>
> --
> David Scheidt
> dmscheidt at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>
>
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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Thu Aug  1 09:03:53 2019
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 10:03:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <63608C84-AE66-4771-85B9-9BF9B3064857@icloud.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
 <63608C84-AE66-4771-85B9-9BF9B3064857@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YAmq834ZsDusKghcDxW1GbZ43Byw+c_Q5L1Qdgc4nMZZA@mail.gmail.com>

Our home was built new in 2007 and is 100% PEX with crimp rings.  Not only
have we not had any issues with the PEX, we survived a hard freeze with no
damage and no leaks.  I have never used a shark-bite connector so can't
comment on those, but I am a big fan of PEX now.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:00 AM Pat Horne via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> My understanding is that plumbers use the expansion method of termination
> because it is easier, faster & cheaper. They also don?t need to stock the
> crimp rings.
>
> I plumbed my shop w/apartment (4 sinks, 1 shower, 1 tub, 1 washer, 2
> toilets & 2 hose bibs)using PEX & crimp rings. It was cheap & easy. That
> was a year ago & I have no leaks.
>
> In my house I used some shark bite connectors on a copper pipe & it
> started leaking.
>
> My use is just a single point but it worked fine for me.  YMMV
>
> peace,
> Pat
>
> Pat Horne
> We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2019, at 9:06 AM, Jim Juhas via Shop-talk <
> shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> I used PEX on my kitchen remodel in 2011. Maybe I didn't know any better
> but I used the crimp rings on hot and cold sides, run to the icemaker, feed
> to dishwasher. Everything is still intact. Only downside is that PEX under
> the sink isn't as pretty as copper.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:35 PM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk <
> shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> >
> > The union in the photograph doesn?t look terrible to me.  I?ve certainly
> successfully worked with worse.  If only to buy you some time, it can?t
> hurt to wrap a couple of extra turns of teflon tape around the new fitting
> - or goober it up with pipe dope - and see if it works.
> >
> > That isn?t to say that a re-plumb isn?t in your future. The clogged pipe
> looks pretty scary.  I haven?t worked much with PEX, but have watched
> plumbers using it and am pretty impressed.  None of the pros seem to use
> crimpers for their connections, and they tell me they don?t trust crimped
> connections.  They use something like this:
> https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2432-22-12-Volt-Propex-Expansion/dp/B0048EJX7U/ref=sr_1_1?crid=20YNES0KKJ2KB&keywords=milwaukee+pex+expander+tool&qid=1564536668&s=hi&sprefix=Milwaukee+pex%2Ctools%2C127&sr=1-1.
> There are manual versions of this for sale, but I am sure this is the way
> to go if you are doing a fair amount of work.
> >
> > I have also been told by professionals that Shark Bite fittings are
> really good.  They are expensive if you are doing a lot of work, but a good
> way connecting PEX to other forms of pipe.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:01 PM, Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk <
> shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> So I cut out enough sheetrock to get some wrenching room, got the old
> pipes out without too much trouble.  I sprayed a few of the joints with
> WD40 a few times, maybe that helped, maybe it didn't.
> >>
> >>
> >> So now the question is can I get the sealing face that rusty old union
> cleaned up enough to get a good seal, or am I going to have to replace it
> too, which might mean tearing into the wall in the next room.  Or maybe not.
> >>
> >> And then, this project has got me thinking.  It might be my cue to buy
> a roll of PEX, a cutter and a crimper and start using it to fix this
> problem and the next one on my list, the washing machine.  At the moment
> when you select a hot water wash, the machine fills up at a rate of about a
> gallon a day.  Is it just the fill hose being clogged, or the valve, or the
> pipes feeding it?  Fun fun fun!
> >>
> >> mjb.
> >>
> >>
> >> <20190730_183454.jpg>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james.f.juhas at snet.net
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Thu Aug  1 09:50:51 2019
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (jamesf at groupwbench.org)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 16:50:51 +0100
Subject: [Shop-talk] Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <63608C84-AE66-4771-85B9-9BF9B3064857@icloud.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>
 <63608C84-AE66-4771-85B9-9BF9B3064857@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <38915c89cfbf6144f48727ace1468c6c@groupwbench.org>

At least here in Boston, everyone is using crimp rings. No one is using 
the expansion rings anymore and they are getting increasingly difficult 
to find. I sold my expander to a guy who'd been looking all over for one 
as he had a stash of expansion rings.

I have used Sharkbite without issues, but the surface needs to be 
exceptionally smooth; hard to do if you have a solder drip or can't get 
in there with emery cloth to fully clean it up. .

jim

On 2019-08-01 15:52, Pat Horne via Shop-talk wrote:
> My understanding is that plumbers use the expansion method of
> termination because it is easier, faster & cheaper. They also don?t
> need to stock the crimp rings.
> 
> I plumbed my shop w/apartment (4 sinks, 1 shower, 1 tub, 1 washer, 2
> toilets & 2 hose bibs)using PEX & crimp rings. It was cheap & easy.
> That was a year ago & I have no leaks.
> 
> In my house I used some shark bite connectors on a copper pipe & it
> started leaking.
> 
> My use is just a single point but it worked fine for me.  YMMV
> 
> peace,
> Pat
> 
> Pat Horne
> We support Habitat for Humanity
> 
> 
> On Aug 1, 2019, at 9:06 AM, Jim Juhas via Shop-talk
> <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> I used PEX on my kitchen remodel in 2011. Maybe I didn't know any
> better but I used the crimp rings on hot and cold sides, run to the
> icemaker, feed to dishwasher. Everything is still intact. Only
> downside is that PEX under the sink isn't as pretty as copper.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:35 PM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk 
>> <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> 
>> The union in the photograph doesn?t look terrible to me.  I?ve 
>> certainly successfully worked with worse.  If only to buy you some 
>> time, it can?t hurt to wrap a couple of extra turns of teflon tape 
>> around the new fitting - or goober it up with pipe dope - and see if 
>> it works.
>> 
>> That isn?t to say that a re-plumb isn?t in your future. The clogged 
>> pipe looks pretty scary.  I haven?t worked much with PEX, but have 
>> watched plumbers using it and am pretty impressed.  None of the pros 
>> seem to use crimpers for their connections, and they tell me they 
>> don?t trust crimped connections.  They use something like this: 
>> https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2432-22-12-Volt-Propex-Expansion/dp/B0048EJX7U/ref=sr_1_1?crid=20YNES0KKJ2KB&keywords=milwaukee+pex+expander+tool&qid=1564536668&s=hi&sprefix=Milwaukee+pex%2Ctools%2C127&sr=1-1. 
>>  There are manual versions of this for sale, but I am sure this is the 
>> way to go if you are doing a fair amount of work.
>> 
>> I have also been told by professionals that Shark Bite fittings are 
>> really good.  They are expensive if you are doing a lot of work, but a 
>> good way connecting PEX to other forms of pipe.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>>> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:01 PM, Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk 
>>> <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I cut out enough sheetrock to get some wrenching room, got the old 
>>> pipes out without too much trouble.  I sprayed a few of the joints 
>>> with WD40 a few times, maybe that helped, maybe it didn't.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So now the question is can I get the sealing face that rusty old 
>>> union cleaned up enough to get a good seal, or am I going to have to 
>>> replace it too, which might mean tearing into the wall in the next 
>>> room.  Or maybe not.
>>> 
>>> And then, this project has got me thinking.  It might be my cue to 
>>> buy a roll of PEX, a cutter and a crimper and start using it to fix 
>>> this problem and the next one on my list, the washing machine.  At 
>>> the moment when you select a hot water wash, the machine fills up at 
>>> a rate of about a gallon a day.  Is it just the fill hose being 
>>> clogged, or the valve, or the pipes feeding it?  Fun fun fun!
>>> 
>>> mjb.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <20190730_183454.jpg>_______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james.f.juhas at snet.net
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org

From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Thu Aug  1 13:38:11 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 19:38:11 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] PEX.....was Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB2233248ED6D5E15999AB4EAEB4DE0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <7FAA513B-EBC6-45E0-B210-F15992A444EB@gmail.com>,
 <F839EB87-79AB-47A9-9357-693BB0E7F3C3@snet.net>,
 <DM6PR13MB2233248ED6D5E15999AB4EAEB4DE0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB2233CBD686DE2F83D848C850B4DE0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Guy definitely  asked about PEX. I think I'll call them back for clarification and a "WTF?".


________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:54 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>; Jim Juhas <james.f.juhas at snet.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] PEX.....was Plumbing fun

We recently changed insurance companies for home and auto. The home basically came along with the auto to get an even better discount than auto alone.

Anyway, I was told by the agent that the home insurance company would have denied us coverage if I had any pex in my house.

Has anyone heard of this? I though pex was the latest and greatest.....


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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sun Aug  4 17:28:49 2019
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 19:28:49 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Plumbing fun
In-Reply-To: <CAMHhs6fPRS+hBZEqZPNvYq3GQ3L6c1bXUFzLoYDAib4pQRZvug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24df8488-828c-5a56-7041-c62494bc27b0@bradakis.com>
 <fca9cc14-7fa7-4d46-06db-9679fd73a21d@bradakis.com>
 <44.C2.05532.7DBE04D5@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
 <CAMHhs6fPRS+hBZEqZPNvYq3GQ3L6c1bXUFzLoYDAib4pQRZvug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B516D7D6-FE8D-4F96-B520-E3210F84C8FD@gmail.com>

I?ve had good experience with SharkBite fittings, but one thing I don?t like about them is the fact that they allow the fitting to rotate after installation.  The first time I used them was to put shut off valves on a bathroom sink (the plumber was only responsible for the rough-in work).  They are leak-free 2 years on, but I don?t like the fact that the valves can rotate when you use them.  Since then, I?ve tried to design any other SharkBite uses such that everything is locked down when done.

> On Jul 30, 2019, at 9:47 PM, Ronnie Day via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> We did our small cabin using primarily pex and the sharkbite push to connect (PTC) connectors. Yes, individually they're expensive, but we spent way less than a good crimper would've cost, about 3 years ago when I did the plumbing lines. They also have the advantage of being more easily changed than with a crimper. Shower, bathroom and kitchen sinks all grouped together.
> 
> I would not buy rolled pex. It's NOT very flexible. The local plumbing supply had sticks in 10 and 20 foot lengths and I used a simple hand held cutter. It worked great. There are plenty of adapters and valves to connect the pex to threaded pipe and fittings. HD and Lowes started carrying more of the no traditional options since we did our place.
> 
> We're on 10 acres not far from Bryan/College Station and use rainwater collection so the water is filtered probably better than a well without extra filtering would be. The whole system has worked out very well.
> 
> RD
> 
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 8:17 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> There are screens at the inlets where the hoses connect to the back 
> of my washing machine.  When I have this problem, I always find a 
> bunch of sediment and debris clogging up the screens.  It is easy to 
> check and easy to fix.  Invest ten minutes in checking that before 
> you start a major project. These are what I'm talking 
> about: 
> www.amazon.com/Danco-80070-Washers-Screen-Black/dp/B000KKULR2/ref=sr_1_11 <http://www.amazon.com/Danco-80070-Washers-Screen-Black/dp/B000KKULR2/ref=sr_1_11>
> 
> -Steve
> 
> At 09:01 PM 7/30/2019, Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk wrote:
> 
> >And then, this project has got me thinking.  It might be my cue to 
> >buy a roll of PEX, a cutter and a crimper and start using it to fix 
> >this problem and the next one on my list, the washing machine.  At 
> >the moment when you select a hot water wash, the machine fills up at 
> >a rate of about a gallon a day.  Is it just the fill hose being 
> >clogged, or the valve, or the pipes feeding it?  Fun fun fun!
> >
> >mjb.
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com
> 

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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Mon Aug  5 10:41:08 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 16:41:08 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] modern tranny service
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB223338EC72CF5B5FDB294DF2B4DA0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Someone please correct me here since I doubt this is accurate....

I seem to remember reading, years ago, that if an automatic transmission has had regular service that it shouldn't be done if the vehicle has a lot of miles on it. Something about the new fluid can degrade the seals?

Am I totally misremembering this? or what?

thanks
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Mon Aug  5 11:02:47 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:02:47 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] modern tranny service
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB223338EC72CF5B5FDB294DF2B4DA0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB223338EC72CF5B5FDB294DF2B4DA0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB22336A9C5E4375199261A09EB4DA0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

that should have read: "hasn't had regular service".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone please correct me here since I doubt this is accurate....

I seem to remember reading, years ago, that if an automatic transmission has had regular service that it shouldn't be done if the vehicle has a lot of miles on it. Something about the new fluid can degrade the seals?

Am I totally misremembering this? or what?

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From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Aug  5 13:40:56 2019
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:40:56 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] Garden tool storage shed
Message-ID: <5e385316-1c8b-975e-f3ae-f278aa4dac6b@bradakis.com>

In my slowly ongoing efforts to bright the Fat Chance Garage back to 
life, back to a place? where once again Triumph sports cars will receive 
quality attention, I am thinking of getting one of these.? I'm willing 
to drop a few hundred on something like this 2 x 4 foot plastic shed, so 
I can move the rakes and shovels and such out of the garage, out of my way.

Does anyone have any experience with these units?

mjb.


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From gsteve at hammatt.com  Mon Aug  5 13:58:30 2019
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 12:58:30 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Garden tool storage shed
Message-ID: <85551528E2634D95AB566ADE516F5175@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>

Just purchased and assembled (actually wife did 60% of the assembly)
a Keter Artisan 7'x11' shed.  Totally awesome quality plastic shed, walls
are "webbed" and are maybe 1/2" thick.  However different sizes and
models may be different construction.  Keter is worldwide, sells different
models thru Lowes, HD and Costco, among other.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
www.leatherplates.com


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 12:40 PM
To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Garden tool storage shed

In my slowly ongoing efforts to bright the Fat Chance Garage back to
life, back to a place  where once again Triumph sports cars will receive
quality attention, I am thinking of getting one of these.  I'm willing
to drop a few hundred on something like this 2 x 4 foot plastic shed, so
I can move the rakes and shovels and such out of the garage, out of my way.

Does anyone have any experience with these units?

mjb.








_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From jem at milleredp.com  Mon Aug  5 14:11:09 2019
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:11:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] modern tranny service
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB223338EC72CF5B5FDB294DF2B4DA0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB223338EC72CF5B5FDB294DF2B4DA0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <750bae80-b91f-e366-f178-09d81e57676f@milleredp.com>

On 8/5/2019 9:41 AM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote:
> Someone please correct me here since I doubt this is accurate....
> 
> I seem to remember reading, years ago, that if an automatic transmission 
> has had regular service that it shouldn't be done if the vehicle has a 
> lot of miles on it. Something about the new fluid can degrade the seals?

I don't think it's the seals, but a friend who was once an engineer on 
the P71 Crown Vic (police) program at Ford once told me that auto trans 
life is very simple: drain and fill the transmission pan every 50K.

Don't worry about the torque converter or the filter, just drain and 
fill, then do it again the next 50K.  You can drop the pan and do the 
filter every so often, but don't obsess about how much you get out or 
how you do it, just get new fluid in there regularly.

That's kinda been my model since.

John.

From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com  Mon Aug  5 14:29:01 2019
From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:29:01 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] modern tranny service
In-Reply-To: <750bae80-b91f-e366-f178-09d81e57676f@milleredp.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB223338EC72CF5B5FDB294DF2B4DA0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>,
 <750bae80-b91f-e366-f178-09d81e57676f@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <BN7PR11MB2724DE45B53C9E8A2CE28C5B9ADA0@BN7PR11MB2724.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

I've only owned one auto-trans car, our 05 Subaru wagon. The manual will tell you that trans fluid is a lifetime fill, and ours doesn't get driven hard or abused, but 50k seems reasonable. It's not like it's hard, especially if you're already doing the oil. I've done ours twice in 144k.

One tip is to measure as accurately as possible how much fluid you drain and replace with exactly that much. Checking AT fluid levels is tricky depending on temperature (on Subarus at least) or how level your driveway is, and it's just easier to know how much to put back in so you don't over or underfill.

I've replaced the AT filter at the same time, added a magnetic drain plug and dropped the pan once, but I don't think any of that is necessary during each fill.

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of John Miller via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 4:11 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] modern tranny service

On 8/5/2019 9:41 AM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote:
> Someone please correct me here since I doubt this is accurate....
>
> I seem to remember reading, years ago, that if an automatic transmission
> has had regular service that it shouldn't be done if the vehicle has a
> lot of miles on it. Something about the new fluid can degrade the seals?

I don't think it's the seals, but a friend who was once an engineer on
the P71 Crown Vic (police) program at Ford once told me that auto trans
life is very simple: drain and fill the transmission pan every 50K.

Don't worry about the torque converter or the filter, just drain and
fill, then do it again the next 50K.  You can drop the pan and do the
filter every so often, but don't obsess about how much you get out or
how you do it, just get new fluid in there regularly.

That's kinda been my model since.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Tue Aug  6 18:33:45 2019
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 19:33:45 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Garden tool storage shed
In-Reply-To: <5e385316-1c8b-975e-f3ae-f278aa4dac6b@bradakis.com>
References: <5e385316-1c8b-975e-f3ae-f278aa4dac6b@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP_tRXxpQeRgqFkwaijwi92gcdH1C4jtC46KtVMsX9i1Xw@mail.gmail.com>

I had a similar 2' X 4' shed (Rubbermaid brand, I think). It was great, and
had slots where I could slide in some shelves.

Make sure it is on level ground (or a poured concrete slab) and it'll be
solid. Don't store any birdseed or other critter-attractive foods, they'll
chew holes in it.

-Peter

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 2:41 PM Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> In my slowly ongoing efforts to bright the Fat Chance Garage back to
> life, back to a place  where once again Triumph sports cars will receive
> quality attention, I am thinking of getting one of these.  I'm willing
> to drop a few hundred on something like this 2 x 4 foot plastic shed, so
> I can move the rakes and shovels and such out of the garage, out of my way.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with these units?
>
> mjb.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>
>
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From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 21:54:15 2019
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:54:15 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6ctCT4C7drVyVoLo=aCL3oL5jHzf+N0BKQo2iN6EOcBDA@mail.gmail.com>

We live in the country on 10 acres. Our nearest neighbors are around a mile
away. We don't bother to lock the doors unless we're going to be gone at
least overnight. Someone could bulldoze the house and no one would be
likely to hear or see it happening. Monitored home security is really a
non-starter. We're 35 miles from the nearest town that would provide that
type of service.

I just realized that I could put up small, self contained "game" type
cameras to cover the front and back doors, hopefully to help ID anyone that
breaks in, and reinforce any insurance claims. I'm talking battery powered
or at least battery back-up, motion controlled, using SD cards or some
other removable memory.

Just started research, but thought tossing it out to the group worth doing.

RD
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From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 13:49:56 2019
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 15:49:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras
In-Reply-To: <CAMHhs6ctCT4C7drVyVoLo=aCL3oL5jHzf+N0BKQo2iN6EOcBDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMHhs6ctCT4C7drVyVoLo=aCL3oL5jHzf+N0BKQo2iN6EOcBDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP-F_hFK58MgVEa6wQSHghEt3wbTVw=EY_t_Tuz3joqHdA@mail.gmail.com>

You'll want them to stream to the cloud, if possible. Otherwise, if they're
noticed, they'll be taken, and the footage will leave with them. Consider
Dropcam.

I wouldn't discount something like Simplisafe, which isn't too expensive,
and offers cameras. It'll give you notification of events at the house
(fire alarm, CO alert, water detection, etc) as well as unexpected door
opening, glass break, etc.

-Peter

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 11:58 PM Ronnie Day via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> We live in the country on 10 acres. Our nearest neighbors are around a
> mile away. We don't bother to lock the doors unless we're going to be gone
> at least overnight. Someone could bulldoze the house and no one would be
> likely to hear or see it happening. Monitored home security is really a
> non-starter. We're 35 miles from the nearest town that would provide that
> type of service.
>
> I just realized that I could put up small, self contained "game" type
> cameras to cover the front and back doors, hopefully to help ID anyone that
> breaks in, and reinforce any insurance claims. I'm talking battery powered
> or at least battery back-up, motion controlled, using SD cards or some
> other removable memory.
>
> Just started research, but thought tossing it out to the group worth doing.
>
> RD
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>
>
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From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Fri Aug  9 21:51:05 2019
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 20:51:05 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras (Ronnie Day)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1565373603.15922.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.9.1565373603.15922.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <0e5d5a24-348d-ac55-7a0a-ceeec32c6f67@threeboysfarm.com>

A very good plan.? Be sure they are inconspicuous or they will leave 
with your uninvited guest.? There are many USB powered version out there 
and they are very inexpensive.
Another option is to get something turnkey that will broadcast the info, 
like a Ring doorbell or floodlight.? They upload the video to a server 
(costs about $25 a year for the subscription for this) and you can view 
it when you want to/need to. Or real time from your phone.? If you get 
the doorbell you can talk to whoever is at the door.? Not sure about the 
light but the doorbell has internal batteries and can also be hardwired 
(either to an existing door bell circuit or with an external 
transformer) so you don't have to think about them.

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:54:15 -0500
> From: Ronnie Day<ronnie.day at gmail.com>
> To: Shop-Talk List<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAMHhs6ctCT4C7drVyVoLo=aCL3oL5jHzf+N0BKQo2iN6EOcBDA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> We live in the country on 10 acres. Our nearest neighbors are around a mile
> away. We don't bother to lock the doors unless we're going to be gone at
> least overnight. Someone could bulldoze the house and no one would be
> likely to hear or see it happening. Monitored home security is really a
> non-starter. We're 35 miles from the nearest town that would provide that
> type of service.
>
> I just realized that I could put up small, self contained "game" type
> cameras to cover the front and back doors, hopefully to help ID anyone that
> breaks in, and reinforce any insurance claims. I'm talking battery powered
> or at least battery back-up, motion controlled, using SD cards or some
> other removable memory.
>
> Just started research, but thought tossing it out to the group worth doing.
>
> RD
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From tvacc at lotusowners.com  Fri Aug  9 22:04:56 2019
From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 00:04:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras (Ronnie Day)
In-Reply-To: <0e5d5a24-348d-ac55-7a0a-ceeec32c6f67@threeboysfarm.com>
References: <mailman.9.1565373603.15922.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <0e5d5a24-348d-ac55-7a0a-ceeec32c6f67@threeboysfarm.com>
Message-ID: <018701d54f30$c5c4a100$514de300$@lotusowners.com>

I might be wrong, but I think the problem here will be the fact that he probably does not have high speed internet or maybe no wired internet at all. With miles between homes most of that "world" is just not wired.  Which is ridiculous as we have given the Verizons, Comcasts, Spectrums etc etc in the USA enough tax breaks and entitlements that every home in America should have fiber optic.

Tony V

Anthony Vaccaro
President 
Lotus Owners of New York (LOONY)
http://www.lotusowners.com
President
Lotus Ltd
http://www.lotusltd.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mark Miller via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2019 11:51 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net; ronnie.day at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras (Ronnie Day)

A very good plan.  Be sure they are inconspicuous or they will leave with your uninvited guest.  There are many USB powered version out there and they are very inexpensive.
Another option is to get something turnkey that will broadcast the info, like a Ring doorbell or floodlight.  They upload the video to a server (costs about $25 a year for the subscription for this) and you can view it when you want to/need to. Or real time from your phone.  If you get the doorbell you can talk to whoever is at the door.  Not sure about the light but the doorbell has internal batteries and can also be hardwired (either to an existing door bell circuit or with an external
transformer) so you don't have to think about them.

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:54:15 -0500
> From: Ronnie Day<ronnie.day at gmail.com>
> To: Shop-Talk List<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAMHhs6ctCT4C7drVyVoLo=aCL3oL5jHzf+N0BKQo2iN6EOcBDA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> We live in the country on 10 acres. Our nearest neighbors are around a mile
> away. We don't bother to lock the doors unless we're going to be gone at
> least overnight. Someone could bulldoze the house and no one would be
> likely to hear or see it happening. Monitored home security is really a
> non-starter. We're 35 miles from the nearest town that would provide that
> type of service.
>
> I just realized that I could put up small, self contained "game" type
> cameras to cover the front and back doors, hopefully to help ID anyone that
> breaks in, and reinforce any insurance claims. I'm talking battery powered
> or at least battery back-up, motion controlled, using SD cards or some
> other removable memory.
>
> Just started research, but thought tossing it out to the group worth doing.
>
> RD
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com



From bk13 at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 10 13:33:52 2019
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:33:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Self contained home security cameras
In-Reply-To: <CAMHhs6ctCT4C7drVyVoLo=aCL3oL5jHzf+N0BKQo2iN6EOcBDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMHhs6ctCT4C7drVyVoLo=aCL3oL5jHzf+N0BKQo2iN6EOcBDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85bff6e9-161d-19fb-9d4d-81f65a2f3a9e@earthlink.net>

I've looked into similar capability, but have not made a decision. Just 
searched for this type of product and found 
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oco-Pro-Bullet-Outdoor-Indoor-1080p-Cloud-Surveillance-and-Security-Camera-with-Remote-Viewing-4-Pack-OPHWB4-16US/300505129 
as a sample.? One of the reviews says "These are a great camera for 
people who do not want to have a DVR box or hard wired cameras. You 
still have to wire power but the wifi feature with the SD card storage 
is the way of the future. This is great for homes without cable internet 
that have a lot of cameras since DSL or wireless connections would get 
bogged down if all the clips were being uploaded like with Nest or Arlo 
etc. I have yet to find another camera like this. Hikvision is likely 
the OEM that rebrands these for Oco which is a good thing as they are 
the largest IP camera maker in the world and know how to do it. Also, 
these do not run hot like the samsung I tried before this."? I have no 
experience with this specific product and only offer it as an example.

If you can run a single network cable, you can install Power Over 
Ethernet (PoE) cameras connected to a digital video recorder (DVR) that 
records everything to a hard drive that you can watch on a monitor/TV or 
on a computer.? These solutions start at about $300. The key thing here 
is to put the central DVR in a location that a thief wouldn't find (not 
next to your computer or TV).

I've learned a good bit from https://ipcamtalk.com/

I have a neighbor that runs a system using Blue Iris software on a PC 
and says he likes it.

I've read in several places that a battery only camera isn't a good idea 
as the motion sensing will drain the battery often enough that it 
becomes problematic.

If looking at a Ring doorbell, make sure your internet connection is 
good enough.? Ring says you need at least 2MB upload if you hunt enough 
though their site.? Even after moving from DSL to cable internet to get 
2MB, the connection still is not always good enough.

On 8/8/2019 8:54 PM, Ronnie Day via Shop-talk wrote:
> We live in the country on 10 acres. Our nearest neighbors are around a 
> mile away. We don't bother to lock the doors unless we're going to be 
> gone at least overnight. Someone could bulldoze the house and no one 
> would be likely to hear or see it happening. Monitored home security 
> is really a non-starter. We're 35 miles from the nearest town that 
> would provide that type of service.
>
> I just realized that I could put up small, self contained "game" type 
> cameras to cover the front and back doors, hopefully to help ID anyone 
> that breaks in, and reinforce any insurance claims. I'm talking 
> battery powered or at least battery back-up, motion controlled, using 
> SD cards or some other removable memory.
>
> Just started research, but thought tossing it out to the group worth 
> doing.
>
> RD
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>

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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Thu Aug 15 10:57:07 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:57:07 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can help.

I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.

I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system".

I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still won't transfer.

Thoughts?

(our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get help)

Thanks
tim
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From lspector at gmail.com  Thu Aug 15 11:09:07 2019
From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:09:07 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNB6Wkipn7tGUg3JB0Amwb3VcfqvCbw=A+N-tZ=MjjYDEzmbQ@mail.gmail.com>

You're hitting the FAT32 filesystem limit of 4GB max for a single file. Try
using Winzip or 7-zip to create a split .zip file.



On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 12:58 PM Tim . via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few computer
> people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can help.
>
> I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 8GB
> flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.
>
> I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 5.27GB )
> is "too large for the destination file system".
>
> I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still
> won't transfer.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> (our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get
> help)
>
> Thanks
> tim
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lspector at gmail.com
>
>
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Thu Aug 15 11:13:00 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 17:13:00 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB22339690DDC2A5A6566F0782B4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

I wondered at the FAT32 issue. I'll try a different format.

The file name is only "EX 8 Agular edited video" and I cannot edit the video as I have to submit an exact copy to the circuit court.

Thanks for the quick replies. I'll try that diff format now.

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:57 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question

Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can help.

I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.

I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system".

I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still won't transfer.

Thoughts?

(our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get help)

Thanks
tim
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From pj_thomas at comcast.net  Thu Aug 15 11:18:22 2019
From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:18:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <216a75d5-41d4-a53b-6591-64606b3dfc76@comcast.net>

I think its the Fat32 file format on that the flash drive was 
formatted.? You hit 4GB file size limit. You need to format as NTFS or 
exFAT.

NTFS On 8/15/2019 12:57 PM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote:
> Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few 
> computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can 
> help.
>
> I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 
> 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.
>
> I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 
> 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system".
>
> I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still 
> won't transfer.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> (our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get 
> help)
>
> Thanks
> tim
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net
>

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From bk13 at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 15 11:25:41 2019
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:25:41 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB22339690DDC2A5A6566F0782B4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <DM6PR13MB22339690DDC2A5A6566F0782B4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <242f9a33-0119-0ca6-be11-7d29722375a7@earthlink.net>

You can also try burning to a CD if that is acceptable to the court and 
you have a computer than can do that.? That is how I submitted dash cam 
footage of an accident to my insurance company.

Brian

On 8/15/2019 10:13 AM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote:
> I wondered at the FAT32 issue. I'll try a different format.
>
> The file name is only "EX 8 Agular edited video" and I cannot edit the 
> video as I have to submit an exact copy to the circuit court.
>
> Thanks?for the quick replies. I'll try that diff format now.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim 
> . via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:57 AM
> *To:* Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
> Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few 
> computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can 
> help.
>
> I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 
> 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.
>
> I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 
> 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system".
>
> I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still 
> won't transfer.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> (our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get 
> help)
>
> Thanks
> tim
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>

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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Thu Aug 15 11:26:46 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 17:26:46 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <242f9a33-0119-0ca6-be11-7d29722375a7@earthlink.net>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <DM6PR13MB22339690DDC2A5A6566F0782B4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>,
 <242f9a33-0119-0ca6-be11-7d29722375a7@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB2233E0F3686133F3B5C0F6EBB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Biggest capacity disc I stock is a 4.7GB DVD so not big enough.

________________________________
From: Brian Kemp <bk13 at earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 12:25 PM
To: Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>; Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question

You can also try burning to a CD if that is acceptable to the court and you have a computer than can do that.  That is how I submitted dash cam footage of an accident to my insurance company.

Brian

On 8/15/2019 10:13 AM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote:
I wondered at the FAT32 issue. I'll try a different format.

The file name is only "EX 8 Agular edited video" and I cannot edit the video as I have to submit an exact copy to the circuit court.

Thanks for the quick replies. I'll try that diff format now.

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net><mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net><mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:57 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net><mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question

Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can help.

I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.

I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system".

I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still won't transfer.

Thoughts?

(our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get help)

Thanks
tim



_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net



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From rkg at teleport.com  Thu Aug 15 11:31:29 2019
From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:31:29 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <597e8a8b-de5d-eb1e-cb06-869e782f453c@teleport.com>

The file is too big for the chosen file system on the thumb drive - 
reformat it to exfat and it should work.

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

On 8/15/2019 9:57 AM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote:
> Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few 
> computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can 
> help.
>
> I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 
> 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.
>
> I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 
> 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system".
>
> I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still 
> won't transfer.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> (our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get 
> help)
>
> Thanks
> tim
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rkg at teleport.com
>
-- 
?People don?t know what they?re doing. And you?ve got this whole culture of people who don?t know what the hell they?re doing teaching every other idiot out there.?  Britton Clouse

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From tim at chenhoerning.com  Thu Aug 15 13:08:03 2019
From: tim at chenhoerning.com (Tim Hoerning)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 15:08:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D3C2C027-A47C-40B3-BF61-8A63F35B29AC@chenhoerning.com>

Tim,

Do you know what the formatting is?  If the flash is FAT32 the maximum size of any one file is 4GB.   You should try exFAT

Tim

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm <http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm>


> On Aug 15, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> 
> Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can help. 
> 
> I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive. 
> 
> I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system". 
> 
> I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still won't transfer. 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> (our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get help)
> 
> Thanks
> tim
> <thumbnail_image001.png><thumbnail_image002.png>_______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tim at chenhoerning.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tim at chenhoerning.com>
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Thu Aug 15 17:30:02 2019
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 23:30:02 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR13MB22339690DDC2A5A6566F0782B4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM6PR13MB2233FC334E668C3B1A649D1EB4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>,
 <DM6PR13MB22339690DDC2A5A6566F0782B4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB2233391A1A6C530542C71030B4AC0@DM6PR13MB2233.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks for all the quick replies guys. As I was dealing with this I was wondering about the format I used on the drive when I erased. Once I switched to exFAT it was all good.

Thanks again
tim

________________________________
From: Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 12:13 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>; Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Subject: Re: thumb drive question

I wondered at the FAT32 issue. I'll try a different format.

The file name is only "EX 8 Agular edited video" and I cannot edit the video as I have to submit an exact copy to the circuit court.

Thanks for the quick replies. I'll try that diff format now.

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:57 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] thumb drive question

Sorry for the off topic but I know that there are more than a few computer people who are on this list so thought I'd see if anyone can help.

I am trying to put about 6.5GB worth of hearing exhibits on first an 8GB flash drive and now a 32GB flash drive.

I keep getting an error message that says one of the videos (only 5.27GB ) is "too large for the destination file system".

I did a fresh quick format on the empty flash drive but the file still won't transfer.

Thoughts?

(our "IT" department is worthless so I am not going to even try to get help)

Thanks
tim
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From gsteve at hammatt.com  Thu Aug 15 21:31:43 2019
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 20:31:43 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] temporary connections
Message-ID: <F97D4D573830458EAD44C9349B8E9521@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>

I?m looking for something to temporarily connect a pair of 2? thick panels (3?x 6?) to form 
a right angle.  Inexpensive and easily knocked apart for quick assembly and teardown.
Panels weigh nearly 100 lbs each.  First thought was strap hinges with removable pins.
Strangely I haven?t seen anything with removable pins, they mostly say non-removable. 
Maybe something like a fitting thru a slot with a tapered wedge acting as a pin, like 
maybe in concrete form assembly.....?  But haven?t seen anything that would work.
I only need two, this is a one-time build and it will be used in the shop!
Thanks for any ideas.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
www.leatherplates.com



 
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From bk13 at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 15 22:07:14 2019
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 21:07:14 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] temporary connections
In-Reply-To: <F97D4D573830458EAD44C9349B8E9521@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>
References: <F97D4D573830458EAD44C9349B8E9521@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>
Message-ID: <0d22e6dc-6c8e-1fde-5e9f-120d61d5a498@earthlink.net>

If you are looking at strap hinges, can you use regular door hinges?? It 
wouldn't be rigid, but may work depending on the need. If you want to go 
with strap hinges, just grind off the end of the pin so it comes out and 
perhaps use the right diameter nail in place of the hinge pin.

Another option might be to saw a groove in the top of bottom of each 
panel and use something like 
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-12-Gauge-Angle-A33/100374962 
to lock the panels together.? This would require that the connecting 
edges be mitered.

My final thought is a segment of straight bar and an offset bar.? On one 
edge, you would put the offset brackets and the other panel would have 
straight brackets.? Basic graphic of the offset bracket below.

 ? |
 ? |
 ? |
--
|
|
|

Think of a smaller version of a bracket where you would drop a 2x4 
across a door to block it closed.? Hope that makes sense.

Brian

On 8/15/2019 8:31 PM, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA via Shop-talk 
wrote:
> I?m looking for something to temporarily connect a pair of 2? thick 
> panels (3?x 6?) to form
> a right angle.? Inexpensive and easily knocked apart for quick 
> assembly and teardown.
> Panels weigh nearly 100 lbs each.? First thought was strap hinges with 
> removable pins.
> Strangely I haven?t seen anything with removable pins, they mostly say 
> non-removable.
> Maybe something like a fitting thru a slot with a tapered wedge acting 
> as a pin, like
> maybe in concrete form assembly.....?? But haven?t seen anything that 
> would work.
> I only need two, this is a one-time build and it will be used in the shop!
> Thanks for any ideas.
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> www.leatherplates.com <http://www.leatherplates.com>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>

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From patintexas at icloud.com  Fri Aug 16 06:03:46 2019
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 07:03:46 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] temporary connections
In-Reply-To: <F97D4D573830458EAD44C9349B8E9521@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>
References: <F97D4D573830458EAD44C9349B8E9521@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>
Message-ID: <4D8CD6BD-5436-4C5B-A864-1602A770D7EC@icloud.com>

There are some tapered connectors used to connect side rails to head & footboards in beds (Rockler GRP343_1)

There are also cross bolts like Rockler 36073 if strength & rigidity are important. 

Peace,
Pat


Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 15, 2019, at 10:31 PM, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

I?m looking for something to temporarily connect a pair of 2? thick panels (3?x 6?) to form
a right angle.  Inexpensive and easily knocked apart for quick assembly and teardown.
Panels weigh nearly 100 lbs each.  First thought was strap hinges with removable pins.
Strangely I haven?t seen anything with removable pins, they mostly say non-removable.
Maybe something like a fitting thru a slot with a tapered wedge acting as a pin, like
maybe in concrete form assembly.....?  But haven?t seen anything that would work.
I only need two, this is a one-time build and it will be used in the shop!
Thanks for any ideas.
 
Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
www.leatherplates.com



 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

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From pnase at me.com  Fri Aug 16 09:43:47 2019
From: pnase at me.com (Philip Nase)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 11:43:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
Message-ID: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>

I?m looking into replacing a 25cc gas trimmer with a cordless electric model. I?m in a rural area with a 1 acre lot. I have a fair amount of trimming and will need it to run an hour between charges. Does anyone have any preferences or advice on which manufacturers and models to rely on. Thanks. 

Phil Nase
Applebachsville, PA

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 09:58:54 2019
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:58:54 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YBes4Uz+eOS1GeYVLE8j412oLKskcoY0OhnvK7oTGTURQ@mail.gmail.com>

Depends on how heavy the brush is you are trimming.  I have a Dewalt 60V
flex trimmer that has two settings.  On the low power setting with the
largest pack, it will run for an hour.  I have use this on all but the
toughest weeds and it did the job admirably.  On the really heavy stuff, I
had to switch it to high power.  On high the battery drain is quite a bit
faster.  I have not done the math, but the 12ah battery was VERY
expensive.  It might be more economical to by two of the 9ah batteries
instead and swap halfway through.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 10:44 AM Philip Nase via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> I?m looking into replacing a 25cc gas trimmer with a cordless electric
> model. I?m in a rural area with a 1 acre lot. I have a fair amount of
> trimming and will need it to run an hour between charges. Does anyone have
> any preferences or advice on which manufacturers and models to rely on.
> Thanks.
>
> Phil Nase
> Applebachsville, PA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From gsteve at hammatt.com  Fri Aug 16 11:10:50 2019
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:10:50 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] temporary connections...THANKS
In-Reply-To: <4D8CD6BD-5436-4C5B-A864-1602A770D7EC@icloud.com>
References: <F97D4D573830458EAD44C9349B8E9521@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>
 <4D8CD6BD-5436-4C5B-A864-1602A770D7EC@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <721E9D0A5F61463FB1531A9ABF445738@DESKTOPTOA1F5G>

Thanks everyone for great suggestions. 
I?m headed to the bed frame connections as 
seemingly the best solution for me.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
www.leatherplates.com



From: Pat Horne 
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 5:03 AM
To: Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA 
Cc: Shop Talk List 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] temporary connections
There are some tapered connectors used to connect side rails to head & footboards in beds (Rockler GRP343_1) 

There are also cross bolts like Rockler 36073 if strength & rigidity are important. 

Peace,
Pat


Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity 


On Aug 15, 2019, at 10:31 PM, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:


I?m looking for something to temporarily connect a pair of 2? thick panels (3?x 6?) to form 
a right angle.  Inexpensive and easily knocked apart for quick assembly and teardown.
Panels weigh nearly 100 lbs each.  First thought was strap hinges with removable pins.
Strangely I haven?t seen anything with removable pins, they mostly say non-removable. 
Maybe something like a fitting thru a slot with a tapered wedge acting as a pin, like 
maybe in concrete form assembly.....?  But haven?t seen anything that would work.
I only need two, this is a one-time build and it will be used in the shop!
Thanks for any ideas.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
www.leatherplates.com



 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

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From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Fri Aug 16 11:11:57 2019
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 13:11:57 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
Message-ID: <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>

I have an Ego 56V trimmer.? It uses 0.95 line and it's hard to imagine a 
situation around a home that it couldn't handle.? You might need a pair 
of 2.5Ah batteries or the 5Ah battery if you're going to run it flat-out 
for an hour. You'll find, though, that you rarely need to run it flat 
out.? A brushless motor will have enough torque even at lower speeds to 
cut through most weeds.

I also have a Stihl FS85r brushcutter (25cc, smallest of Stihl's 
blade-capable brushcutters).? The Stihl is more powerful than the Ego 
and it's what I'd use for fence rows the farm but it's overpowered for 
use around a house.? Plus it's heavier, smellier, louder (!!) and just 
plain finicky-ier than the Ego.? There's a lot to be said for being able 
to plug in a battery and being ready to go.

Ego, Greenworks 60V or 80V, Dewalt 60V (they also have a 40V lineup 
aimed at landscapers), Milwaukee, and even Ryobi's 40V brushless stuff.? 
Any of those brands are pretty well-reviewed and would do the job.? The 
benefit of the Dewalt and Milwaukee gear is their batteries will work 
with their other power tools.?? I'd stay away from brands like Worx or 
Black & Decker.



On 8/16/19 11:43 AM, Philip Nase via Shop-talk wrote:
> I?m looking into replacing a 25cc gas trimmer with a cordless electric model. I?m in a rural area with a 1 acre lot. I have a fair amount of trimming and will need it to run an hour between charges. Does anyone have any preferences or advice on which manufacturers and models to rely on. Thanks.
>
> Phil Nase
> Applebachsville, PA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org
>


From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 11:31:07 2019
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 12:31:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6cDJbag_7bw12niMF_MhV4UYDpz+oR0+nOBX1fTH0wobw@mail.gmail.com>

What ever you do make sure you get a trimmer with a removable battery, and
see if you can find a bundle that includes an extra battery. They're as
expensive, if not more, than the tools!

RD

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:12 PM Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> I have an Ego 56V trimmer.  It uses 0.95 line and it's hard to imagine a
> situation around a home that it couldn't handle.  You might need a pair
> of 2.5Ah batteries or the 5Ah battery if you're going to run it flat-out
> for an hour. You'll find, though, that you rarely need to run it flat
> out.  A brushless motor will have enough torque even at lower speeds to
> cut through most weeds.
>
> I also have a Stihl FS85r brushcutter (25cc, smallest of Stihl's
> blade-capable brushcutters).  The Stihl is more powerful than the Ego
> and it's what I'd use for fence rows the farm but it's overpowered for
> use around a house.  Plus it's heavier, smellier, louder (!!) and just
> plain finicky-ier than the Ego.  There's a lot to be said for being able
> to plug in a battery and being ready to go.
>
> Ego, Greenworks 60V or 80V, Dewalt 60V (they also have a 40V lineup
> aimed at landscapers), Milwaukee, and even Ryobi's 40V brushless stuff.
> Any of those brands are pretty well-reviewed and would do the job.  The
> benefit of the Dewalt and Milwaukee gear is their batteries will work
> with their other power tools.   I'd stay away from brands like Worx or
> Black & Decker.
>
>
>
> On 8/16/19 11:43 AM, Philip Nase via Shop-talk wrote:
> > I?m looking into replacing a 25cc gas trimmer with a cordless electric
> model. I?m in a rural area with a 1 acre lot. I have a fair amount of
> trimming and will need it to run an hour between charges. Does anyone have
> any preferences or advice on which manufacturers and models to rely on.
> Thanks.
> >
> > Phil Nase
> > Applebachsville, PA
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com
>
>
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From marka at maracing.com  Fri Aug 16 12:34:09 2019
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 14:34:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
Message-ID: <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

I have a B&D 36V battery string trimmer.  I'm not sure it'd run for an hour
of heavy trimming, but I'm not sure it wouldn't either.

Very much prefer it to gas powered setups because we use a trimmer
infrequently and this is just "plug in battery, pull trigger" vs. needing
to get the gas engine to run well.

I'm not sure where you are, but I'd sell you this one for $50 or whatever,
just to have an excuse to get a Milwaukee, since I've recently upgraded my
battery tools and would like to get them all onto the same battery
platform.  :-)

Mark

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 1:12 PM Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> I have an Ego 56V trimmer.  It uses 0.95 line and it's hard to imagine a
> situation around a home that it couldn't handle.  You might need a pair
> of 2.5Ah batteries or the 5Ah battery if you're going to run it flat-out
> for an hour. You'll find, though, that you rarely need to run it flat
> out.  A brushless motor will have enough torque even at lower speeds to
> cut through most weeds.
>
> I also have a Stihl FS85r brushcutter (25cc, smallest of Stihl's
> blade-capable brushcutters).  The Stihl is more powerful than the Ego
> and it's what I'd use for fence rows the farm but it's overpowered for
> use around a house.  Plus it's heavier, smellier, louder (!!) and just
> plain finicky-ier than the Ego.  There's a lot to be said for being able
> to plug in a battery and being ready to go.
>
> Ego, Greenworks 60V or 80V, Dewalt 60V (they also have a 40V lineup
> aimed at landscapers), Milwaukee, and even Ryobi's 40V brushless stuff.
> Any of those brands are pretty well-reviewed and would do the job.  The
> benefit of the Dewalt and Milwaukee gear is their batteries will work
> with their other power tools.   I'd stay away from brands like Worx or
> Black & Decker.
>
>
>
> On 8/16/19 11:43 AM, Philip Nase via Shop-talk wrote:
> > I?m looking into replacing a 25cc gas trimmer with a cordless electric
> model. I?m in a rural area with a 1 acre lot. I have a fair amount of
> trimming and will need it to run an hour between charges. Does anyone have
> any preferences or advice on which manufacturers and models to rely on.
> Thanks.
> >
> > Phil Nase
> > Applebachsville, PA
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com
>
>
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From jem at milleredp.com  Fri Aug 16 12:43:09 2019
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 11:43:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>

> I'm not sure where you are, but I'd sell you this one for $50 or 
> whatever, just to have an excuse to get a Milwaukee, since I've recently 
> upgraded my battery tools and would like to get them all onto the same 
> battery platform.? :-)

Yeah, that's the whole thing with battery tools, you are not buying a 
tool you're buying a battery.

I've got a 'consumer-grade' Black and Decker string trimmer and it works 
okay, the string spool isn't really big enough.  But the real bugbear is 
that everything else I've got is DeWalt (okay, same company, but 
different battery).

John.

From stearman809 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 16:26:11 2019
From: stearman809 at gmail.com (Karl Vacek)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:26:11 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>

Related topic.  I recently went through this consideration (still don't have a new string trimmer or edger) and became convinced that the EGO stuff was the best.  Based on reviews and videos - never touched one till I ordered it.

I started with their biggest blower, which came with the 5-AH battery and a charger.  It's fine, I guess, but unless you push the "Turbo" button it's not close to the power of my  50 year old Echo gas blower.  A fast clean-up after mowing, using full trigger but not any time in Turbo mode, and I'm down to half battery.  If it was leaf season I'd be taking a 1-1/2 hour break every 45 minutes.  And I swear it slows down as the battery runs down, though maybe that's just my disappointment kicking in.

It was an Amazon purchase and it's going back.  Now I'm not sure the lower hassle factor of a battery tool is worth it.  I still need a string trimmer and an edger.

Going to the Stihl dealer next, and probably resigning myself to putting up with 2-cycle engines for a while more.


From jdinnis at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 16:38:33 2019
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:38:33 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YDdRe7PmEgwrqaWfR_4XjRxA2Ygzb3=9ib5NWp5W=BZ4w@mail.gmail.com>

I have not used the EGO stuff, but if 5ah is the biggest battery they have,
I would not expect much out of them.  The smallest battery I have for my
Dewalt stuff is 6ah, and I only use that one on the drill and impact
driver.  I have a 12ah battery for my string trimmer, and on high mode it
has as much torque as my straight shaft echo SRM-2100.  I also have the
Dewalt chain saw, and I have been very impressed with it.  I used it to cut
down, limb and buck a 25' tree about 8" in diameter. WIth the 12ah battery
it did the job without any struggling and even had about 60% capacity when
done.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:26 PM Karl Vacek via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Related topic.  I recently went through this consideration (still don't
> have a new string trimmer or edger) and became convinced that the EGO stuff
> was the best.  Based on reviews and videos - never touched one till I
> ordered it.
>
> I started with their biggest blower, which came with the 5-AH battery and
> a charger.  It's fine, I guess, but unless you push the "Turbo" button it's
> not close to the power of my  50 year old Echo gas blower.  A fast clean-up
> after mowing, using full trigger but not any time in Turbo mode, and I'm
> down to half battery.  If it was leaf season I'd be taking a 1-1/2 hour
> break every 45 minutes.  And I swear it slows down as the battery runs
> down, though maybe that's just my disappointment kicking in.
>
> It was an Amazon purchase and it's going back.  Now I'm not sure the lower
> hassle factor of a battery tool is worth it.  I still need a string trimmer
> and an edger.
>
> Going to the Stihl dealer next, and probably resigning myself to putting
> up with 2-cycle engines for a while more.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Tue Aug 20 16:54:47 2019
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:54:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YDdRe7PmEgwrqaWfR_4XjRxA2Ygzb3=9ib5NWp5W=BZ4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <CANuE7YDdRe7PmEgwrqaWfR_4XjRxA2Ygzb3=9ib5NWp5W=BZ4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.56.1566341690.2434.shop-talk@autox.team.net>

> I also have the Dewalt chain saw

I?m seeing several different ones; is that the 20v 12? bar version?

-- Randall

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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 17:03:56 2019
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 18:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <20190820225513.70F30A0710@autox.team.net>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <CANuE7YDdRe7PmEgwrqaWfR_4XjRxA2Ygzb3=9ib5NWp5W=BZ4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20190820225513.70F30A0710@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YDU21nsYEu2y9mTYuuyB7GnPGJ-YSK43eUmwDjQKgY4xQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes the 12" 20v version.  I am using the 60/20 flex volt 12ah battery on
it.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 5:55 PM Randall via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> > I also have the Dewalt chain saw
>
>
>
> I?m seeing several different ones; is that the 20v 12? bar version?
>
>
>
> -- Randall
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Tue Aug 20 21:03:42 2019
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 23:03:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YDdRe7PmEgwrqaWfR_4XjRxA2Ygzb3=9ib5NWp5W=BZ4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <CANuE7YDdRe7PmEgwrqaWfR_4XjRxA2Ygzb3=9ib5NWp5W=BZ4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b1308d20-e308-570a-8214-3ff009410e80@sackheads.org>

It's probably better to compare watt-hours rather than amp-hours since 
battery voltages vary.? The Ego 5ah @ 56V battery has 280 watt-hours of 
power.? The 12ah Dewalt Flexvolt battery (12ah in 20V mode, 4ah in 60V 
mode) has 240 watt-hours of power.? So the 5ah Ego battery is a little 
bigger.? Dewalt does offer a 7.5ah battery but it's in their 40V lineup 
(300 watt-hours) that's geared towards landscapers.? It's kind of a 
shame that Dewalt had to bifurcate their batteries like that.? They 
could have just made their landscaper-pro tools use the same 60V 
Flexvolt battery...

Ego also offers a 7.5ah battery but it's heavy and expensive (cheapest 
way to buy one is to buy a mower with the battery, keep the battery and 
sell the bare mower on Ebay).? They also has a 28ah backpack kind of 
like the Stihl and Husqvarna backpacks but it's aimed at landscapers 
(and priced as such).



On 8/20/19 6:38 PM, John Innis via Shop-talk wrote:
> I have not used the EGO stuff, but if 5ah is the biggest battery they 
> have, I would not expect much out of them. The smallest battery I have 
> for my Dewalt stuff is 6ah, and I only use that one on the drill and 
> impact driver.? I have a 12ah battery for my string trimmer, and on 
> high mode it has as much torque as my straight shaft echo SRM-2100.? I 
> also have the Dewalt chain saw, and I have been very impressed with 
> it.? I used it to cut down, limb and buck a 25' tree about 8" in 
> diameter. WIth the 12ah battery it did the job without any struggling 
> and even had about 60% capacity when done.
>
> -- 
> =================================
> = Never offend people with style when you?? =
> = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown? =
> =================================
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org
>

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From bk13 at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 20 22:37:22 2019
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 21:37:22 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
Message-ID: <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>

Regarding your "lower hassle factor" comment, if you stay gas, give the 
canned fuel like Tru-Fuel a try.? My blower, string trimmer, and chain 
saw always start right up, even after months or 2 years for the chain 
saw.? Yes it costs more, but it makes it super easy not having to keep 
fresh gas, especially with the mess they have in California.

I had problems starting my Echo string trimmer and went back to the 
dealer and the first thing they wanted to blame was my gas.? I said that 
I never used anything other than Tru-Fuel and he became super helpful.? 
Turns out I shouldn't have followed the starting directions as written 
and was flooding the engine.? No problems in the 6 years since and it 
gets worked very hard 4-5 times a year.

My previous string trimmer was a Ryobi and when the engine died at 3 
years and 2 month, all the service places blamed my gas and said to just 
toss it.? Have not bought a Ryobi product since and never will.? The 
semi-pro Echo is far superior.? Especially like the easy loading string 
in the Speed-Feed head - Just take a 20' length of .095 line, stick it 
through the hole and twist the head to wind it up.? No more trying to 
wrap a spool then install it in the head. This alone is worth most of 
the price difference from a home center product to a real outdoor 
products dealer.

Also like my Sthil low noise backpack blower.? I have a corded electric 
Toro, but it seems louder and has much less power.? It too always starts 
right up on Tru-Fuel.? When I use it, I'm running it 30-45 minutes.? 
Could never expect a battery product to work for me.

Battery products may work for some, but for my situation, I don't 
consider them an option and I have zero issues with gas products since I 
stopped mixing with pump gas.

Brian


On 8/20/2019 3:26 PM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
> Related topic.  I recently went through this consideration (still don't have a new string trimmer or edger) and became convinced that the EGO stuff was the best.  Based on reviews and videos - never touched one till I ordered it.
>
> I started with their biggest blower, which came with the 5-AH battery and a charger.  It's fine, I guess, but unless you push the "Turbo" button it's not close to the power of my  50 year old Echo gas blower.  A fast clean-up after mowing, using full trigger but not any time in Turbo mode, and I'm down to half battery.  If it was leaf season I'd be taking a 1-1/2 hour break every 45 minutes.  And I swear it slows down as the battery runs down, though maybe that's just my disappointment kicking in.
>
> It was an Amazon purchase and it's going back.  Now I'm not sure the lower hassle factor of a battery tool is worth it.  I still need a string trimmer and an edger.
>
> Going to the Stihl dealer next, and probably resigning myself to putting up with 2-cycle engines for a while more.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>
>


From fishplate at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 05:21:32 2019
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 07:21:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7COTfjLDa85F+yMdZZ76=169wszxSTtshF8uBBpCEVQj+g@mail.gmail.com>

Not living in California sometimes has it's advantages.  I can get
EtOH-free gas, and mix it with Sta-Bil.  I use that in all my lawn
equipment.  I buy it 7-8 gallons at a time, and store it for up to a
year.  Every spring, my Snapper mower starts right up without any
problem.  The two stroke stuff may need a whiff of ether, or maybe not
- can't really figure it out, but it's no problem.

As always, your mileage may /literally/ vary.


Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 12:38 AM Brian Kemp via Shop-talk
<shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Regarding your "lower hassle factor" comment, if you stay gas, give the
> canned fuel like Tru-Fuel a try.  My blower, string trimmer, and chain
> saw always start right up, even after months or 2 years for the chain
> saw.  Yes it costs more, but it makes it super easy not having to keep
> fresh gas, especially with the mess they have in California.
>
> I had problems starting my Echo string trimmer and went back to the
> dealer and the first thing they wanted to blame was my gas.  I said that
> I never used anything other than Tru-Fuel and he became super helpful.
> Turns out I shouldn't have followed the starting directions as written
> and was flooding the engine.  No problems in the 6 years since and it
> gets worked very hard 4-5 times a year.
>
> My previous string trimmer was a Ryobi and when the engine died at 3
> years and 2 month, all the service places blamed my gas and said to just
> toss it.  Have not bought a Ryobi product since and never will.  The
> semi-pro Echo is far superior.  Especially like the easy loading string
> in the Speed-Feed head - Just take a 20' length of .095 line, stick it
> through the hole and twist the head to wind it up.  No more trying to
> wrap a spool then install it in the head. This alone is worth most of
> the price difference from a home center product to a real outdoor
> products dealer.
>
> Also like my Sthil low noise backpack blower.  I have a corded electric
> Toro, but it seems louder and has much less power.  It too always starts
> right up on Tru-Fuel.  When I use it, I'm running it 30-45 minutes.
> Could never expect a battery product to work for me.
>
> Battery products may work for some, but for my situation, I don't
> consider them an option and I have zero issues with gas products since I
> stopped mixing with pump gas.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On 8/20/2019 3:26 PM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
> > Related topic.  I recently went through this consideration (still don't have a new string trimmer or edger) and became convinced that the EGO stuff was the best.  Based on reviews and videos - never touched one till I ordered it.
> >
> > I started with their biggest blower, which came with the 5-AH battery and a charger.  It's fine, I guess, but unless you push the "Turbo" button it's not close to the power of my  50 year old Echo gas blower.  A fast clean-up after mowing, using full trigger but not any time in Turbo mode, and I'm down to half battery.  If it was leaf season I'd be taking a 1-1/2 hour break every 45 minutes.  And I swear it slows down as the battery runs down, though maybe that's just my disappointment kicking in.
> >
> > It was an Amazon purchase and it's going back.  Now I'm not sure the lower hassle factor of a battery tool is worth it.  I still need a string trimmer and an edger.
> >
> > Going to the Stihl dealer next, and probably resigning myself to putting up with 2-cycle engines for a while more.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>

From stearman809 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 08:20:24 2019
From: stearman809 at gmail.com (Karl Vacek)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:20:24 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>

Brian, you're right.  THANK YOU !!!  Tru-Fuel seems to be the real deal.  And I've been scoffing at canned gasoline sold for wine prices.

I've brought aviation unleaded home from the airport and added Sta-Bil for all the 4-cycle lawn equipment (lawn tractor, mower, snow blower) for a couple of years.  Runs much better, though to be honest the tractor doesn't care what gas is in it or how old.  17.5 HP Kohler, about 1999.  I don't need Tru-Fuel for the 4-cycle stuff.

I've recently been mixing that same gas with high-quality chemical lubricant for the 2-cycle stuff and it's seemed mostly OK.  For sure better than pump gas (gasohol only here).  With pump gas every new batch of fuel requires carb adjustments.  And I had a can of starting fluid sitting around for decades, unused.  Now I seem to use starting fluid every month or two.

My (1970) Echo blower hadn't run in years.  Probably a fuel issue.  That was why I tried the EGO blower.  When the EGO wasn't up to the taks, I bought a diaphragm kit for the old Echo's carb and put it in.  Filled the tank with Tru-Fuel and a couple of pulls and it runs.  That ancient Kioritz engine is still strong.  And it blows far stronger than that top-model EGO battery toy.

Little 2-cycle equipment uses so little fuel that there's nothing to save even at $6 a quart for Tru-Fuel.  It works.  No more mixing for me.

I may even buy a gas string trimmer now.  Not sure if Echo is still what it was though -- I got screwed on an Echo ES-230 vacuum/shredder/mulcher some years back because of the warning about using only 89+ octane fuel less than 90 days old.  Where is that warning?  In a paragraph on page 17 of the manual, after pages of lawyer advice about not licking the muffler while the engine is running.  Who reads that?

My "Pro" Echo dealer told me NOTHING other than to buy Echo oil - and I bought a case from him along with the ES-230.  When the engine overheated I took it back to him and he said it was fine, just use it.  It ran less than 45 minutes more and finally shot fire out of the head gasket.  Then he refused to even ask Echo to warrantee it.  Bottom line, I got a lemon from a lemon of a dealer.  I called Echo and they gave me a short block as long as I had (another) dealer install it.  And it's still running.  That huge landscaper supply dealer has a sign in his service area about the Echo fuel requirement.

I shipped the EGO electric blower back - not sure how much that experiment will cost me, but it wasn't worth it.  I'm an engine guy.

Thanks to all !!!
Karl



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Kemp [mailto:bk13 at earthlink.net] 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers

Regarding your "lower hassle factor" comment, if you stay gas, give the 
canned fuel like Tru-Fuel a try.  My blower, string trimmer, and chain 
saw always start right up, even after months or 2 years for the chain 
saw.  Yes it costs more, but it makes it super easy not having to keep 
fresh gas, especially with the mess they have in California.

I had problems starting my Echo string trimmer and went back to the 
dealer and the first thing they wanted to blame was my gas.  I said that 
I never used anything other than Tru-Fuel and he became super helpful.  
Turns out I shouldn't have followed the starting directions as written 
and was flooding the engine.  No problems in the 6 years since and it 
gets worked very hard 4-5 times a year.

My previous string trimmer was a Ryobi and when the engine died at 3 
years and 2 month, all the service places blamed my gas and said to just 
toss it.  Have not bought a Ryobi product since and never will.  The 
semi-pro Echo is far superior.  Especially like the easy loading string 
in the Speed-Feed head - Just take a 20' length of .095 line, stick it 
through the hole and twist the head to wind it up.  No more trying to 
wrap a spool then install it in the head. This alone is worth most of 
the price difference from a home center product to a real outdoor 
products dealer.

Also like my Sthil low noise backpack blower.  I have a corded electric 
Toro, but it seems louder and has much less power.  It too always starts 
right up on Tru-Fuel.  When I use it, I'm running it 30-45 minutes.  
Could never expect a battery product to work for me.

Battery products may work for some, but for my situation, I don't 
consider them an option and I have zero issues with gas products since I 
stopped mixing with pump gas.

Brian


On 8/20/2019 3:26 PM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
> Related topic.  I recently went through this consideration (still don't have a new string trimmer or edger) and became convinced that the EGO stuff was the best.  Based on reviews and videos - never touched one till I ordered it.
>
> I started with their biggest blower, which came with the 5-AH battery and a charger.  It's fine, I guess, but unless you push the "Turbo" button it's not close to the power of my  50 year old Echo gas blower.  A fast clean-up after mowing, using full trigger but not any time in Turbo mode, and I'm down to half battery.  If it was leaf season I'd be taking a 1-1/2 hour break every 45 minutes.  And I swear it slows down as the battery runs down, though maybe that's just my disappointment kicking in.
>
> It was an Amazon purchase and it's going back.  Now I'm not sure the lower hassle factor of a battery tool is worth it.  I still need a string trimmer and an edger.
>
> Going to the Stihl dealer next, and probably resigning myself to putting up with 2-cycle engines for a while more.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>
>



From bspidell at comcast.net  Mon Aug 26 08:58:52 2019
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 07:58:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
 <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
Message-ID: <c33f6a06-871b-166c-43b8-7749ca659223@comcast.net>

Well, there is no 'aviation unleaded' fuel.? Airports that support 
General Aviation--aka 'small planes'--usually offer 100LL, for 
100-octane 'Low Lead.'? 'Low Lead' is relative; it has approximately 
one-third less tetra-ethyl lead than the previous de facto standard 
110-octane avgas (I think it's 2 grams/gal for LL vs. 3grams/gal for the 
110; may be liters instead of gallons).? Put it in a clear container, it 
should be pale blue in color; the 110 I believe was red/orange-colored, 
but I never saw it anywhere in my 30 years or so of piloting and owning 
light aircraft.

Some aircraft, typically with relatively low-power (less than 200HP) 
engines, can run on automotive gas, but the aircraft MUST have Technical 
Service Bulletin ('TSB') approval from the FAA--which can cost a couple 
thousand dollars--and their owners have to follow strict fueling 
procedures. These include assuring the fuel has no contaminants--I 
believe ethanol is considered a 'contaminant'--and the Reid Vapor 
Pressure ('RVP') must fall in an acceptable range. Some airports, 
precious few I think, do offer acceptable auto gas, but for most it's 
too much trouble to support for? the small number of aircraft that can 
use it, and the liability is large.

The FAA and industry is trying to come up with an unleaded aircraft 
fuel, but it's been a years-long process and we're still a couple/few 
years out, and it may never happen.? I'm a Commercial licensed pilot, 
but haven't flown in a few years but keep up on the industry.? I think 
Shell and GAMI are the only two contenders last I checked.

I've gone all pedantic on you because, if you're getting avgas from a 
pump on the field it's likely 100LL--should say so on the truck or pump 
island--but don't be fooled; it's loaded with lead and if you're 
breathing the exhaust fumes you are harming your health.? All the 
gas-engined equipment I have save one will run fine on 87-octane; the 
4-stroke Stilh string trimmer I have requires 89-octane (didn't know 
that before I bought it).? I keep my fuel in 5-gal cans, so to avoid 
some hassle I buy 89-octane only, but you're not doing an engine that 
can run on 87 any favors by using higher octane (goes for auto engines 
as well).

Bob


On 8/26/2019 7:20 AM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
> Brian, you're right.  THANK YOU !!!  Tru-Fuel seems to be the real deal.  And I've been scoffing at canned gasoline sold for wine prices.
>
> I've brought aviation unleaded home from the airport and added Sta-Bil for all the 4-cycle lawn equipment (lawn tractor, mower, snow blower) for a couple of years.  Runs much better, though to be honest the tractor doesn't care what gas is in it or how old.  17.5 HP Kohler, about 1999.  I don't need Tru-Fuel for the 4-cycle stuff.
>
> I've recently been mixing that same gas with high-quality chemical lubricant for the 2-cycle stuff and it's seemed mostly OK.  For sure better than pump gas (gasohol only here).  With pump gas every new batch of fuel requires carb adjustments.  And I had a can of starting fluid sitting around for decades, unused.  Now I seem to use starting fluid every month or two.
>
> My (1970) Echo blower hadn't run in years.  Probably a fuel issue.  That was why I tried the EGO blower.  When the EGO wasn't up to the taks, I bought a diaphragm kit for the old Echo's carb and put it in.  Filled the tank with Tru-Fuel and a couple of pulls and it runs.  That ancient Kioritz engine is still strong.  And it blows far stronger than that top-model EGO battery toy.
>
> Little 2-cycle equipment uses so little fuel that there's nothing to save even at $6 a quart for Tru-Fuel.  It works.  No more mixing for me.
>
> I may even buy a gas string trimmer now.  Not sure if Echo is still what it was though -- I got screwed on an Echo ES-230 vacuum/shredder/mulcher some years back because of the warning about using only 89+ octane fuel less than 90 days old.  Where is that warning?  In a paragraph on page 17 of the manual, after pages of lawyer advice about not licking the muffler while the engine is running.  Who reads that?
>
> My "Pro" Echo dealer told me NOTHING other than to buy Echo oil - and I bought a case from him along with the ES-230.  When the engine overheated I took it back to him and he said it was fine, just use it.  It ran less than 45 minutes more and finally shot fire out of the head gasket.  Then he refused to even ask Echo to warrantee it.  Bottom line, I got a lemon from a lemon of a dealer.  I called Echo and they gave me a short block as long as I had (another) dealer install it.  And it's still running.  That huge landscaper supply dealer has a sign in his service area about the Echo fuel requirement.
>
> I shipped the EGO electric blower back - not sure how much that experiment will cost me, but it wasn't worth it.  I'm an engine guy.
>
> Thanks to all !!!
> Karl
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Kemp [mailto:bk13 at earthlink.net]
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
>
> Regarding your "lower hassle factor" comment, if you stay gas, give the
> canned fuel like Tru-Fuel a try.  My blower, string trimmer, and chain
> saw always start right up, even after months or 2 years for the chain
> saw.  Yes it costs more, but it makes it super easy not having to keep
> fresh gas, especially with the mess they have in California.
>
> I had problems starting my Echo string trimmer and went back to the
> dealer and the first thing they wanted to blame was my gas.  I said that
> I never used anything other than Tru-Fuel and he became super helpful.
> Turns out I shouldn't have followed the starting directions as written
> and was flooding the engine.  No problems in the 6 years since and it
> gets worked very hard 4-5 times a year.
>
> My previous string trimmer was a Ryobi and when the engine died at 3
> years and 2 month, all the service places blamed my gas and said to just
> toss it.  Have not bought a Ryobi product since and never will.  The
> semi-pro Echo is far superior.  Especially like the easy loading string
> in the Speed-Feed head - Just take a 20' length of .095 line, stick it
> through the hole and twist the head to wind it up.  No more trying to
> wrap a spool then install it in the head. This alone is worth most of
> the price difference from a home center product to a real outdoor
> products dealer.
>
> Also like my Sthil low noise backpack blower.  I have a corded electric
> Toro, but it seems louder and has much less power.  It too always starts
> right up on Tru-Fuel.  When I use it, I'm running it 30-45 minutes.
> Could never expect a battery product to work for me.
>
> Battery products may work for some, but for my situation, I don't
> consider them an option and I have zero issues with gas products since I
> stopped mixing with pump gas.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On 8/20/2019 3:26 PM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
>> Related topic.  I recently went through this consideration (still don't have a new string trimmer or edger) and became convinced that the EGO stuff was the best.  Based on reviews and videos - never touched one till I ordered it.
>>
>> I started with their biggest blower, which came with the 5-AH battery and a charger.  It's fine, I guess, but unless you push the "Turbo" button it's not close to the power of my  50 year old Echo gas blower.  A fast clean-up after mowing, using full trigger but not any time in Turbo mode, and I'm down to half battery.  If it was leaf season I'd be taking a 1-1/2 hour break every 45 minutes.  And I swear it slows down as the battery runs down, though maybe that's just my disappointment kicking in.
>>
>> It was an Amazon purchase and it's going back.  Now I'm not sure the lower hassle factor of a battery tool is worth it.  I still need a string trimmer and an edger.
>>
>> Going to the Stihl dealer next, and probably resigning myself to putting up with 2-cycle engines for a while more.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>
>


From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 09:11:15 2019
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 08:11:15 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <c33f6a06-871b-166c-43b8-7749ca659223@comcast.net>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
 <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
 <c33f6a06-871b-166c-43b8-7749ca659223@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgYOB7bwcc=Q4o8GN4e5n47L+QRBEFrQqm7+n89jcxxPEg@mail.gmail.com>

It probably already has been covered, but I am very satisfied with my Stihl
corded string trimmer, but I only have one acre.

I did run/bury 110 AC to a few locations to make it more convenient, but I
am battery-free now for yard work (blower, trimmer, hedger, even a corded
mower, but I still prefer the gas mower).

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019, 7:59 AM Bob Spidell via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Well, there is no 'aviation unleaded' fuel.  Airports that support
> General Aviation--aka 'small planes'--usually offer 100LL, for
> 100-octane 'Low Lead.'  'Low Lead' is relative; it has approximately
> one-third less tetra-ethyl lead than the previous de facto standard
> 110-octane avgas (I think it's 2 grams/gal for LL vs. 3grams/gal for the
> 110; may be liters instead of gallons).  Put it in a clear container, it
> should be pale blue in color; the 110 I believe was red/orange-colored,
> but I never saw it anywhere in my 30 years or so of piloting and owning
> light aircraft.
>
> Some aircraft, typically with relatively low-power (less than 200HP)
> engines, can run on automotive gas, but the aircraft MUST have Technical
> Service Bulletin ('TSB') approval from the FAA--which can cost a couple
> thousand dollars--and their owners have to follow strict fueling
> procedures. These include assuring the fuel has no contaminants--I
> believe ethanol is considered a 'contaminant'--and the Reid Vapor
> Pressure ('RVP') must fall in an acceptable range. Some airports,
> precious few I think, do offer acceptable auto gas, but for most it's
> too much trouble to support for  the small number of aircraft that can
> use it, and the liability is large.
>
> The FAA and industry is trying to come up with an unleaded aircraft
> fuel, but it's been a years-long process and we're still a couple/few
> years out, and it may never happen.  I'm a Commercial licensed pilot,
> but haven't flown in a few years but keep up on the industry.  I think
> Shell and GAMI are the only two contenders last I checked.
>
> I've gone all pedantic on you because, if you're getting avgas from a
> pump on the field it's likely 100LL--should say so on the truck or pump
> island--but don't be fooled; it's loaded with lead and if you're
> breathing the exhaust fumes you are harming your health.  All the
> gas-engined equipment I have save one will run fine on 87-octane; the
> 4-stroke Stilh string trimmer I have requires 89-octane (didn't know
> that before I bought it).  I keep my fuel in 5-gal cans, so to avoid
> some hassle I buy 89-octane only, but you're not doing an engine that
> can run on 87 any favors by using higher octane (goes for auto engines
> as well).
>
> Bob
>
>
> On 8/26/2019 7:20 AM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
> > Brian, you're right.  THANK YOU !!!  Tru-Fuel seems to be the real
> deal.  And I've been scoffing at canned gasoline sold for wine prices.
> >
> > I've brought aviation unleaded home from the airport and added Sta-Bil
> for all the 4-cycle lawn equipment (lawn tractor, mower, snow blower) for a
> couple of years.  Runs much better, though to be honest the tractor doesn't
> care what gas is in it or how old.  17.5 HP Kohler, about 1999.  I don't
> need Tru-Fuel for the 4-cycle stuff.
> >
> > I've recently been mixing that same gas with high-quality chemical
> lubricant for the 2-cycle stuff and it's seemed mostly OK.  For sure better
> than pump gas (gasohol only here).  With pump gas every new batch of fuel
> requires carb adjustments.  And I had a can of starting fluid sitting
> around for decades, unused.  Now I seem to use starting fluid every month
> or two.
> >
> > My (1970) Echo blower hadn't run in years.  Probably a fuel issue.  That
> was why I tried the EGO blower.  When the EGO wasn't up to the taks, I
> bought a diaphragm kit for the old Echo's carb and put it in.  Filled the
> tank with Tru-Fuel and a couple of pulls and it runs.  That ancient Kioritz
> engine is still strong.  And it blows far stronger than that top-model EGO
> battery toy.
> >
> > Little 2-cycle equipment uses so little fuel that there's nothing to
> save even at $6 a quart for Tru-Fuel.  It works.  No more mixing for me.
> >
> > I may even buy a gas string trimmer now.  Not sure if Echo is still what
> it was though -- I got screwed on an Echo ES-230 vacuum/shredder/mulcher
> some years back because of the warning about using only 89+ octane fuel
> less than 90 days old.  Where is that warning?  In a paragraph on page 17
> of the manual, after pages of lawyer advice about not licking the muffler
> while the engine is running.  Who reads that?
> >
> > My "Pro" Echo dealer told me NOTHING other than to buy Echo oil - and I
> bought a case from him along with the ES-230.  When the engine overheated I
> took it back to him and he said it was fine, just use it.  It ran less than
> 45 minutes more and finally shot fire out of the head gasket.  Then he
> refused to even ask Echo to warrantee it.  Bottom line, I got a lemon from
> a lemon of a dealer.  I called Echo and they gave me a short block as long
> as I had (another) dealer install it.  And it's still running.  That huge
> landscaper supply dealer has a sign in his service area about the Echo fuel
> requirement.
> >
> > I shipped the EGO electric blower back - not sure how much that
> experiment will cost me, but it wasn't worth it.  I'm an engine guy.
> >
> > Thanks to all !!!
> > Karl
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian Kemp [mailto:bk13 at earthlink.net]
> > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
> >
> > Regarding your "lower hassle factor" comment, if you stay gas, give the
> > canned fuel like Tru-Fuel a try.  My blower, string trimmer, and chain
> > saw always start right up, even after months or 2 years for the chain
> > saw.  Yes it costs more, but it makes it super easy not having to keep
> > fresh gas, especially with the mess they have in California.
> >
> > I had problems starting my Echo string trimmer and went back to the
> > dealer and the first thing they wanted to blame was my gas.  I said that
> > I never used anything other than Tru-Fuel and he became super helpful.
> > Turns out I shouldn't have followed the starting directions as written
> > and was flooding the engine.  No problems in the 6 years since and it
> > gets worked very hard 4-5 times a year.
> >
> > My previous string trimmer was a Ryobi and when the engine died at 3
> > years and 2 month, all the service places blamed my gas and said to just
> > toss it.  Have not bought a Ryobi product since and never will.  The
> > semi-pro Echo is far superior.  Especially like the easy loading string
> > in the Speed-Feed head - Just take a 20' length of .095 line, stick it
> > through the hole and twist the head to wind it up.  No more trying to
> > wrap a spool then install it in the head. This alone is worth most of
> > the price difference from a home center product to a real outdoor
> > products dealer.
> >
> > Also like my Sthil low noise backpack blower.  I have a corded electric
> > Toro, but it seems louder and has much less power.  It too always starts
> > right up on Tru-Fuel.  When I use it, I'm running it 30-45 minutes.
> > Could never expect a battery product to work for me.
> >
> > Battery products may work for some, but for my situation, I don't
> > consider them an option and I have zero issues with gas products since I
> > stopped mixing with pump gas.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > On 8/20/2019 3:26 PM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
> >> Related topic.  I recently went through this consideration (still don't
> have a new string trimmer or edger) and became convinced that the EGO stuff
> was the best.  Based on reviews and videos - never touched one till I
> ordered it.
> >>
> >> I started with their biggest blower, which came with the 5-AH battery
> and a charger.  It's fine, I guess, but unless you push the "Turbo" button
> it's not close to the power of my  50 year old Echo gas blower.  A fast
> clean-up after mowing, using full trigger but not any time in Turbo mode,
> and I'm down to half battery.  If it was leaf season I'd be taking a 1-1/2
> hour break every 45 minutes.  And I swear it slows down as the battery runs
> down, though maybe that's just my disappointment kicking in.
> >>
> >> It was an Amazon purchase and it's going back.  Now I'm not sure the
> lower hassle factor of a battery tool is worth it.  I still need a string
> trimmer and an edger.
> >>
> >> Going to the Stihl dealer next, and probably resigning myself to
> putting up with 2-cycle engines for a while more.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at live.com
>
>
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From jem at milleredp.com  Mon Aug 26 09:22:04 2019
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 08:22:04 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
 <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
Message-ID: <085a5a12-bf21-c3c6-76b8-5b155aea28e8@milleredp.com>

> I've brought aviation unleaded home from the airport and added
> Sta-Bil for all the 4-cycle lawn equipment (lawn tractor, mower, snow
> blower) for a couple of years.  Runs much better, though to be honest
> the tractor doesn't care what gas is in it or how old.  17.5 HP
> Kohler, about 1999.  I don't need Tru-Fuel for the 4-cycle stuff.

It was probably blue, and it was probably 100LL.  Half the lead of most 
of the earlier grades, most everyone's pretty much still standardized on 
this.

Some places and applications (warbird events?) you may find more heavily 
leaded super-sauce for your high-boost blown motors.  The reason the 
Merlin went from 800HP to 1700+HP in production was all that sweet, 
sweet American leaded 130-octane gasoline.

John.

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 09:27:44 2019
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 10:27:44 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <085a5a12-bf21-c3c6-76b8-5b155aea28e8@milleredp.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
 <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
 <085a5a12-bf21-c3c6-76b8-5b155aea28e8@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YCNLT=y_CtxXcMV-GgXgzSCzOi1zpYCFvwiqwEvcgkT=w@mail.gmail.com>

Keep in mind that Low Lead Avgas, like 100LL, still has 4x the amount of
lead that standard automotive gas contained.  The guys who run this stuff
in race cars and the like often report issues with lead deposits on valve
stems and seats.  I have personally see a valve stem so leaded up that it
stuck open.  Use at your own risk.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 10:22 AM John Miller via Shop-talk <
shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:

> > I've brought aviation unleaded home from the airport and added
> > Sta-Bil for all the 4-cycle lawn equipment (lawn tractor, mower, snow
> > blower) for a couple of years.  Runs much better, though to be honest
> > the tractor doesn't care what gas is in it or how old.  17.5 HP
> > Kohler, about 1999.  I don't need Tru-Fuel for the 4-cycle stuff.
>
> It was probably blue, and it was probably 100LL.  Half the lead of most
> of the earlier grades, most everyone's pretty much still standardized on
> this.
>
> Some places and applications (warbird events?) you may find more heavily
> leaded super-sauce for your high-boost blown motors.  The reason the
> Merlin went from 800HP to 1700+HP in production was all that sweet,
> sweet American leaded 130-octane gasoline.
>
> John.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From stearman809 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 11:22:05 2019
From: stearman809 at gmail.com (Karl Vacek)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:22:05 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YCNLT=y_CtxXcMV-GgXgzSCzOi1zpYCFvwiqwEvcgkT=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
 <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
 <085a5a12-bf21-c3c6-76b8-5b155aea28e8@milleredp.com>
 <CANuE7YCNLT=y_CtxXcMV-GgXgzSCzOi1zpYCFvwiqwEvcgkT=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01d55c32$c90cb0f0$5b2612d0$@GMail.com>

The gas I buy at the airport for my lawn equipment is indeed aviation unleaded.  In the early 1980?s the EAA ran a project to prove that low-compression aircraft engines could safely run on unleaded car gas.  Peterson Aviation in Nebraska did a similar project.  Both sell STC?s to allow use of that specific fuel in applicable aircraft.  Basically a permit to allow the use of unleaded auto fuel a specific in aircraft under specified conditions.

 

The wide marketing of gasohol soon after the STC?s became available caused issues ? the FAA permission is ONLY for straight unleaded ? no alcohol.  Here in the Peoples Republic of Illinois the corn lobby has us inundated with gasohol, and there are only a handful of places in the state where you can fill up a car or truck with ethanol-free car gas.

 

For use in those planes so certificated, many airports now carry ?aviation mogas? ? regular unleaded without alcohol.  It?s not to be sold for on-road vehicles, just planes.  And airports can legally pump it into cans for small-engine use.

 

I have plenty of the blue stuff (100 LL) in the Stearman, but haven?t ever put it in any lawn equipment.  Almost the same price, so that?s not the issue, but my lawn equipment just doesn?t need lead.  Even my 3-wheel Harley (well, it?s a 2-cycle Harley Davidson golf cart) uses unleaded just fine.

 

Used to be better to use 80 octane (red) but that?s pretty much gone today.  That was good for mowers, etc. too.  As noted, 100 LL has 4x the lead of old 80 octane, so lead fouling can be an issue in aircraft engines.  Some guys who have the auto fuel STC even run 75% auto gas and 25% 100 LL to simulate old 80 octane.  When 80 octane went away and 80 octane engines that to switch to 100 LL, many pilots experienced lead-fouling issues, and many top overhauls were done.  Sometimes guys lapped the guides with the cylinder in place too.  But that?s largely over now, as most engines have appropriate valves and guides to allow regular use of 100 LL.  Personally I?ve not had an issue with 100 LL in my engine, which has stock WWII era valves and guides, and I have indeed had occasion to pull three cylinders over the years and disassemble the valves, with no lead fouling issues present.

 

As far as purple gas being available at Warbird events, I?ve not ever seen it, but my Stearman is at the lower end of the Warbird spectrum.  We do have a Grumman TBM Avenger on the field, and Tom uses 100 LL in that ? it?s got a Wright 2600-20 (1900 HP).  And P-51?s regularly fill up with 100 LL.  Maybe the purple stuff is available sometimes, but not commonly, and as far as I know most Warbird engines run fine on 100 LL.

 

One of the things that allowed higher boost pressures during WWII was water injection.  That?s still an option.

 

Thanks !!

Karl

 

 

 

Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers

 

Keep in mind that Low Lead Avgas, like 100LL, still has 4x the amount of lead that standard automotive gas contained.  The guys who run this stuff in race cars and the like often report issues with lead deposits on valve stems and seats.  I have personally see a valve stem so leaded up that it stuck open.  Use at your own risk.

 


It was probably blue, and it was probably 100LL.  Half the lead of most 
of the earlier grades, most everyone's pretty much still standardized on 
this.

Some places and applications (warbird events?) you may find more heavily 
leaded super-sauce for your high-boost blown motors.  The reason the 
Merlin went from 800HP to 1700+HP in production was all that sweet, 
sweet American leaded 130-octane gasoline.

John

 

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From stearman809 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 11:40:27 2019
From: stearman809 at gmail.com (Karl Vacek)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:40:27 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers
References: <041656EE-650B-48B8-83F2-2A9B4805B775@me.com>
 <a1e09f60-d2ce-bbdc-c658-789685a6d38a@sackheads.org>
 <CAAoSWGOksJ1gOmvKeSWkp=mH9aEaEoUR_cDsZLGbGs+uoYfzqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2964d014-10fb-d2b2-34e2-476dafb5a837@milleredp.com>
 <004801d557a6$45fb9180$d1f2b480$@GMail.com>
 <29fb6ac3-3cf1-da2d-d0b2-1090a16c3080@earthlink.net>
 <007b01d55c19$679e8f00$36dbad00$@GMail.com>
 <085a5a12-bf21-c3c6-76b8-5b155aea28e8@milleredp.com>
 <CANuE7YCNLT=y_CtxXcMV-GgXgzSCzOi1zpYCFvwiqwEvcgkT=w@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <001401d55c35$59879ee0$0c96dca0$@GMail.com>

I should add that yes, as Bob Spidell stated, there?s no actual thing as ?aviation unleaded? but at least theoretically the fuel suppliers control RVP, etc to the ASTM specs required by the FAA-issued STC?s for aircraft use.  In fact, the refineries and distributors are supposed to maintain specific trucks only to deliver car gas for aircraft use to avoid any cross-contamination.  It carries no road tax (a huge part of car gas prices) but the cost of the separate refinery streams and distribution costs still price it well over a buck a gallon more than car gas at a nearby gas station.  Our airport sells mogas for $4.30 per gallon.  Costco had 93 octane for $3.30  the other day.

 

In my limited experience our airport?s car gas has been very consistent.  But I don?t have an auto gas STC for my present plane because 100 LL works fine for me and there?s little price difference.  And I?m sure that 100 LL is pretty consistent across the country.  Not too sure what I?d get out of a mogas pump at some unfamiliar airport.

 

As they say, YMMV

 

 

From: Karl Vacek [mailto:Stearman809 at GMail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 12:22 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers

 

The gas I buy at the airport for my lawn equipment is indeed aviation unleaded.  In the early 1980?s the EAA ran a project to prove that low-compression aircraft engines could safely run on unleaded car gas.  Peterson Aviation in Nebraska did a similar project.  Both sell STC?s to allow use of that specific fuel in applicable aircraft.  Basically a permit to allow the use of unleaded auto fuel a specific in aircraft under specified conditions.

 

The wide marketing of gasohol soon after the STC?s became available caused issues ? the FAA permission is ONLY for straight unleaded ? no alcohol.  Here in the Peoples Republic of Illinois the corn lobby has us inundated with gasohol, and there are only a handful of places in the state where you can fill up a car or truck with ethanol-free car gas.

 

For use in those planes so certificated, many airports now carry ?aviation mogas? ? regular unleaded without alcohol.  It?s not to be sold for on-road vehicles, just planes.  And airports can legally pump it into cans for small-engine use.

 

I have plenty of the blue stuff (100 LL) in the Stearman, but haven?t ever put it in any lawn equipment.  Almost the same price, so that?s not the issue, but my lawn equipment just doesn?t need lead.  Even my 3-wheel Harley (well, it?s a 2-cycle Harley Davidson golf cart) uses unleaded just fine.

 

Used to be better to use 80 octane (red) but that?s pretty much gone today.  That was good for mowers, etc. too.  As noted, 100 LL has 4x the lead of old 80 octane, so lead fouling can be an issue in aircraft engines.  Some guys who have the auto fuel STC even run 75% auto gas and 25% 100 LL to simulate old 80 octane.  When 80 octane went away and 80 octane engines that to switch to 100 LL, many pilots experienced lead-fouling issues, and many top overhauls were done.  Sometimes guys lapped the guides with the cylinder in place too.  But that?s largely over now, as most engines have appropriate valves and guides to allow regular use of 100 LL.  Personally I?ve not had an issue with 100 LL in my engine, which has stock WWII era valves and guides, and I have indeed had occasion to pull three cylinders over the years and disassemble the valves, with no lead fouling issues present.

 

As far as purple gas being available at Warbird events, I?ve not ever seen it, but my Stearman is at the lower end of the Warbird spectrum.  We do have a Grumman TBM Avenger on the field, and Tom uses 100 LL in that ? it?s got a Wright 2600-20 (1900 HP).  And P-51?s regularly fill up with 100 LL.  Maybe the purple stuff is available sometimes, but not commonly, and as far as I know most Warbird engines run fine on 100 LL.

 

One of the things that allowed higher boost pressures during WWII was water injection.  That?s still an option.

 

Thanks !!

Karl

 

 

 

Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electric String Trimmers

 

Keep in mind that Low Lead Avgas, like 100LL, still has 4x the amount of lead that standard automotive gas contained.  The guys who run this stuff in race cars and the like often report issues with lead deposits on valve stems and seats.  I have personally see a valve stem so leaded up that it stuck open.  Use at your own risk.

 


It was probably blue, and it was probably 100LL.  Half the lead of most 
of the earlier grades, most everyone's pretty much still standardized on 
this.

Some places and applications (warbird events?) you may find more heavily 
leaded super-sauce for your high-boost blown motors.  The reason the 
Merlin went from 800HP to 1700+HP in production was all that sweet, 
sweet American leaded 130-octane gasoline.

John

 

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From eric at megageek.com  Fri Aug 30 18:17:44 2019
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:17:44 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
 question) and *free beer (or coffee)
Message-ID: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>

My 2015 Explorer and me are in Phoenix, AZ* for a another month. I wanted to get an oil change prior to returning to NJ.

Here is the problem. Ford states that it uses a 'synthetic blend' oil. I don't know what the dealer used last, as all my records are still in NJ and it was under a free dealership oil change when I did the last one. (Normally I do my own.)

The place I can get the oil changed at does either full synthetic or full conventional oil.

Since I'll be putting another 500 miles on the truck out here, before I trek another 3000 miles across the country, what oil should I use? I don't know if it even makes a difference. But there is extreme heat out here (but it's cooling off now.)

I'm having the shop do this Sunday so I need to make a decision soon.

*BTW, any Phoenix shop-talkers want to get together for a beer/coffee this weekend? I'm buying!

Thanks.


Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Tech Viper
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson 
-Who is John Galt?

From stearman809 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 30 18:59:55 2019
From: stearman809 at gmail.com (Karl Vacek)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 19:59:55 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
 question) and *free beer (or coffee)
In-Reply-To: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <000f01d55f97$67f99d10$37ecd730$@GMail.com>

Since you want the protection the factory recommends as a minimum, I'd use
full synthetic. 

"Synthetic Blend" is a nebulous term for an undefined proportion of
conventional motor oil and synthetic motor oil.  Various brands use various
mixes, but all that I've ever been able to find out in terms of proportions
is that it's usually only a small proportion of synthetic oil in most,
probably not exceeding 20%.  Years ago I used Valvoline Synthetic blend, but
it was expensive.  Once I learned that their blend was no more than 20%
synthetic, I began to use 2 quarts synthetic to 3 quarts conventional at
every oil change.  It was cheaper than buying the blend, and I got twice as
much synthetic in the mix.

Since then synthetic oil prices have dropped significantly and conventional
oil prices have risen.  I've run nothing but Mobil One in all of my street
cars for years with no downside other than a little extra cost.

Karl


-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
eric--- via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 7:18 PM
To: SHOPTALK DIGEST
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
question) and *free beer (or coffee)

My 2015 Explorer and me are in Phoenix, AZ* for a another month. I wanted to
get an oil change prior to returning to NJ.

Here is the problem. Ford states that it uses a 'synthetic blend' oil. I
don't know what the dealer used last, as all my records are still in NJ and
it was under a free dealership oil change when I did the last one. (Normally
I do my own.)

The place I can get the oil changed at does either full synthetic or full
conventional oil.

Since I'll be putting another 500 miles on the truck out here, before I trek
another 3000 miles across the country, what oil should I use? I don't know
if it even makes a difference. But there is extreme heat out here (but it's
cooling off now.)

I'm having the shop do this Sunday so I need to make a decision soon.

*BTW, any Phoenix shop-talkers want to get together for a beer/coffee this
weekend? I'm buying!

Thanks.


Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Tech Viper
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo
Emerson 
-Who is John Galt?
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Fri Aug 30 22:09:12 2019
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:09:12 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
 question) and *free beer (or coffee)
In-Reply-To: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <d3747c10-2b94-ae95-0d9d-66090677e03a@comcast.net>

Ford almost always uses their 5W-20 syn blend:

*https://tinyurl.com/yyyjo6vj*

My '08 Mustang GT used it and my '19 GT do to, inc. free dealership oil 
changes 'for life.'? For a long trek, I'd use the syn.

Bob

On 8/30/2019 5:17 PM, eric--- via Shop-talk wrote:
> My 2015 Explorer and me are in Phoenix, AZ* for a another month. I wanted to get an oil change prior to returning to NJ.
>
> Here is the problem. Ford states that it uses a 'synthetic blend' oil. I don't know what the dealer used last, as all my records are still in NJ and it was under a free dealership oil change when I did the last one. (Normally I do my own.)
>
> The place I can get the oil changed at does either full synthetic or full conventional oil.
>
> Since I'll be putting another 500 miles on the truck out here, before I trek another 3000 miles across the country, what oil should I use? I don't know if it even makes a difference. But there is extreme heat out here (but it's cooling off now.)
>
> I'm having the shop do this Sunday so I need to make a decision soon.
>
> *BTW, any Phoenix shop-talkers want to get together for a beer/coffee this weekend? I'm buying!
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
> Tech Viper
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
> -Who is John Galt?
>
>

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From bspidell at comcast.net  Fri Aug 30 22:25:02 2019
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:25:02 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
 question) and *free beer (or coffee)
In-Reply-To: <d3747c10-2b94-ae95-0d9d-66090677e03a@comcast.net>
References: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
 <d3747c10-2b94-ae95-0d9d-66090677e03a@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3a4c318f-0515-962f-8405-40aa99b52111@comcast.net>

Oh, forgot to mention, full syn /might/ leak a little more than dino or 
semi-syn, so you might want to check it occasionally and carry a quart 
of whatever the oil change place put in.
Bob

On 8/30/2019 9:09 PM, Bob Spidell via Shop-talk wrote:
> Ford almost always uses their 5W-20 syn blend:
>
> *https://tinyurl.com/yyyjo6vj*
>
> My '08 Mustang GT used it and my '19 GT do to, inc. free dealership 
> oil changes 'for life.'? For a long trek, I'd use the syn.
>
> Bob
>
> On 8/30/2019 5:17 PM, eric--- via Shop-talk wrote:
>> My 2015 Explorer and me are in Phoenix, AZ* for a another month. I wanted to get an oil change prior to returning to NJ.
>>
>> Here is the problem. Ford states that it uses a 'synthetic blend' oil. I don't know what the dealer used last, as all my records are still in NJ and it was under a free dealership oil change when I did the last one. (Normally I do my own.)
>>
>> The place I can get the oil changed at does either full synthetic or full conventional oil.
>>
>> Since I'll be putting another 500 miles on the truck out here, before I trek another 3000 miles across the country, what oil should I use? I don't know if it even makes a difference. But there is extreme heat out here (but it's cooling off now.)
>>
>> I'm having the shop do this Sunday so I need to make a decision soon.
>>
>> *BTW, any Phoenix shop-talkers want to get together for a beer/coffee this weekend? I'm buying!
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
>> Tech Viper
>> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
>> -Who is John Galt?
>>
>>
>

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From bspidell at comcast.net  Fri Aug 30 22:31:36 2019
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:31:36 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
 question) and *free beer (or coffee)
In-Reply-To: <000f01d55f97$67f99d10$37ecd730$@GMail.com>
References: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
 <000f01d55f97$67f99d10$37ecd730$@GMail.com>
Message-ID: <ca1b7a31-a952-5e8a-0392-63dd534ad5f4@comcast.net>

re: '"Synthetic Blend" is a nebulous term for an undefined proportion of 
conventional motor oil and synthetic motor oil"

Not only that, but some 'pure synthetics' are really just highly-refined 
dino oil:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil


On 8/30/2019 5:59 PM, Karl Vacek via Shop-talk wrote:
> Since you want the protection the factory recommends as a minimum, I'd use
> full synthetic.
>
> "Synthetic Blend" is a nebulous term for an undefined proportion of
> conventional motor oil and synthetic motor oil.  Various brands use various
> mixes, but all that I've ever been able to find out in terms of proportions
> is that it's usually only a small proportion of synthetic oil in most,
> probably not exceeding 20%.  Years ago I used Valvoline Synthetic blend, but
> it was expensive.  Once I learned that their blend was no more than 20%
> synthetic, I began to use 2 quarts synthetic to 3 quarts conventional at
> every oil change.  It was cheaper than buying the blend, and I got twice as
> much synthetic in the mix.
>
> Since then synthetic oil prices have dropped significantly and conventional
> oil prices have risen.  I've run nothing but Mobil One in all of my street
> cars for years with no downside other than a little extra cost.
>
> Karl
>
>
>


From stanb at panix.com  Sat Aug 31 07:54:57 2019
From: stanb at panix.com (stan)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:54:57 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
 question) and *free beer (or coffee)
In-Reply-To: <3a4c318f-0515-962f-8405-40aa99b52111@comcast.net>
References: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
 <d3747c10-2b94-ae95-0d9d-66090677e03a@comcast.net>
 <3a4c318f-0515-962f-8405-40aa99b52111@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20190831135457.GA9928@panix.com>

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 09:25:02PM -0700, Shop Talk List wrote:
> Oh, forgot to mention, full syn /might/ leak a little more than dino or
> semi-syn, so you might want to check it occasionally and carry a quart of
> whatever the oil change place put in.
> Bob
> 
Might be hard to do. Most of the oil change places use oil from 55 Gal. drums, and
probably do not have quarts.

> On 8/30/2019 9:09 PM, Bob Spidell via Shop-talk wrote:
> > Ford almost always uses their 5W-20 syn blend:
> > 
> > *https://tinyurl.com/yyyjo6vj*
> > 
> > My '08 Mustang GT used it and my '19 GT do to, inc. free dealership oil
> > changes 'for life.'?? For a long trek, I'd use the syn.
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > On 8/30/2019 5:17 PM, eric--- via Shop-talk wrote:
> > > My 2015 Explorer and me are in Phoenix, AZ* for a another month. I wanted to get an oil change prior to returning to NJ.
> > > 
> > > Here is the problem. Ford states that it uses a 'synthetic blend' oil. I don't know what the dealer used last, as all my records are still in NJ and it was under a free dealership oil change when I did the last one. (Normally I do my own.)
> > > 
> > > The place I can get the oil changed at does either full synthetic or full conventional oil.
> > > 
> > > Since I'll be putting another 500 miles on the truck out here, before I trek another 3000 miles across the country, what oil should I use? I don't know if it even makes a difference. But there is extreme heat out here (but it's cooling off now.)
> > > 
> > > I'm having the shop do this Sunday so I need to make a decision soon.
> > > 
> > > *BTW, any Phoenix shop-talkers want to get together for a beer/coffee this weekend? I'm buying!
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
> > > Tech Viper
> > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > -Who is John Galt?
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
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> 


-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
						-- Benjamin Franklin

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Aug 31 10:31:56 2019
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 11:31:56 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Synth and conventional oil question (Time sensitive
 question) and *free beer (or coffee)
In-Reply-To: <20190831135457.GA9928@panix.com>
References: <OF0A7E51A9.04536A0E-ON85258467.00007480-85258467.00019FEC@mail.megageek.com>
 <d3747c10-2b94-ae95-0d9d-66090677e03a@comcast.net>
 <3a4c318f-0515-962f-8405-40aa99b52111@comcast.net>
 <20190831135457.GA9928@panix.com>
Message-ID: <AA19C92E-AF54-4B26-A6F9-DC7D73D29639@gmail.com>



> On Aug 31, 2019, at 08:54, stan via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 09:25:02PM -0700, Shop Talk List wrote:
>> Oh, forgot to mention, full syn /might/ leak a little more than dino or
>> semi-syn, so you might want to check it occasionally and carry a quart of
>> whatever the oil change place put in.
>> Bob
>> 
> Might be hard to do. Most of the oil change places use oil from 55 Gal. drums, and
> probably do not have quarts


If you stay away from bottom of the barrel places that use bulk recycled oil, the oil they get in barrels, bulk , or bag in box is the same stuff that is put in quart bottles. Even if you can?t get the same stuff, anything of the right weight and service grade will work just fine.