[Shop-talk] diesel fuel question

Fri Apr 24 17:59:23 MDT 2020

Hi Jeff:

We do commissioning and validation. Lately it is mostly for FDA-regulated facilities [pharmaceutical, biotech, medical device, etc.] – but also financial services and others.  And, Yup – a boy CAN dream!! 😊

It turns out that I am the ‘jinx’ when it comes to power failures: 

*	Supplier in Las Vegas had a battery backup system. It turns out when the power failed they had never serviced the batteries…
*	Client in Memphis had the wind storm and the transfer switch failed, no power to the building
*	Client in Minnesota lost electricity after a ~18 inch snow storm. Four (4) buildings on the campus each had individual natural-gas fired generators. One was less than 6 months old and HAD been tested as part of standing up the building. When I drove up in my Land Cruiser, the whole campus was dark! Although I had not personally been involved with validation of the building or generator, I was able to diagnose the campus-wide lack of power to a validation issue in about three minutes. I had then up and running within 10 minutes and headed back to my hotel, as the offices were closed.

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All the best,

Al Fuller

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:21 AM
To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question

Al,

You are correct - it is the engines that get exercised, not the generator, and that's an important distinction.  Do you do validation or commissioning, or both?  

Our generators  have been reliable so far in real emergencies, but live load testing with our current facility involves some challenges that have consequences we don't care to risk if we can help it.  

Our new facility, currently under construction (coming online at the end of this year, pandemic notwithstanding), has two  2MW generators (3800 gallons each) with load bank for testing.  So we will exercise the generator along with the diesel engine.  We will probably include live load testing of the entire system including transfer switch, tie breaker for redundant power systems, and redundant power supply for one building, at least semi-annually.  As this place won't be a patchwork of 50 years of continuous improvement with all that implies, I'm planning on the whole thing being seamless and trouble-free.

A boy can dream, right?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net> > wrote:

Jeff [and all]:

As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators]. 

The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when the generator set was first specified and the switch set couldn’t support the load.  It was very frustrating to have a working diesel generator, but unable to power the building!

As a validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be tested ahead of time – in the same way you would use it.

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All the best,

Al Fuller

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM
To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question

We have two 500kW generators at work.  Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we go through about 500-800 gallons per year.  I expect that, despite the fact that these generators are having their 21st birthday this year, there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that is 21 years old.  This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps working.  We did throw a jug of biocide in one year with the fresh fuel.

Having said that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just to make sure they will run when we need them.  

Do like the others have said:  check filters, check a fuel sample from the tank, and let us know what you find.

There exist people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship or tank farm and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your stored diesel fuel.  Might be a bit of overkill on the farm.

Jeff Scarbrough

Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net> > wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad? 

Here is my situation.  I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.)  The fuel in there has been there a few years. 

My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny.  At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little. 

Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do? 

Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.  Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first?  What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel? 

Thanks! 

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson 
-Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________

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