From eric at megageek.com Thu Jan 4 15:08:34 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 17:08:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) Message-ID: Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out some info. After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost a month, nothing. Then I posted here and others expressed their dissatisfaction with SK as well. I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my claim. They stated that they did not have it. I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again. Again, they said they didn't have it. Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that meant.) But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a replacement, since the kit wasn't available. So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.) About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email. Nothing. Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about 4 days later. I pay it within an hour of getting it. About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and will be shipping out the replacement. Now, this was about mid Dec. So I hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays. Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it. Since the place is only about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it. So I now have my new SK breaker bar. Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. In the end, I am not at all happy. American tool companies used to be worth the extra price. However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a new one. The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS. Really? If they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping one way at least! I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop in the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools. And to have me without a tool for over 3 months! I mean if I was making my living with their tools, I would have been starving. I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. I hope they are happy. If any of them break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. Moose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 17:27:14 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 16:27:14 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am very sorry to hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer for over 50 years. I have a very larage collection of tools from them. I know that they were purchased in 2021 by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial, a Chinese conglomerate. I believe that some/most of the manufacturing is still done here, but it is no longer an American company. For new purchases I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made and owned, but things changs. I bought a Backyard Buddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was wonderful. It was made by Steel Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last month, but now it is owned by Advantage Lifts which sells imported lifts as well. Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. I truly hate to see this degradation of quality happen to really good American tool companies. I guess I am just glad that I have most of the tools now that I will ever need. best, doug On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16?PM wrote: > Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. > I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out > some info. > > After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost > a month, nothing. Then I posted here and others expressed their > dissatisfaction with SK as well. > > I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my > claim. They stated that they did not have it. > > I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again. Again, they said they > didn't have it. > > Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but > they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that > meant.) > > But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a > replacement, since the kit wasn't available. > > So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.) > > About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email. > Nothing. > > Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about > 4 days later. I pay it within an hour of getting it. > > About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and > will be shipping out the replacement. Now, this was about mid Dec. So I > hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays. > > Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it. Since the place is only > about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it. So I now > have my new SK breaker bar. > > Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and > how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to > use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. > > In the end, I am not at all happy. American tool companies used to be > worth the extra price. However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot > Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a > new one. > > The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS. Really? If > they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping > one way at least! I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop in > the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools. And to > have me without a tool for over 3 months! I mean if I was making my living > with their tools, I would have been starving. > > I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. I hope they are happy. If any of them > break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house > brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) > > Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. > > Moose _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 5 07:51:37 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (Moose) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 09:51:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Message-ID: I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.) Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a pain to clean it out. In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or specs The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil. OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better. Thanks! Moose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 06:28:04 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 05:28:04 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Moose, Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I have not experienced that when changing my oil. I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me that I have not changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to look for oil. I saw this Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound like compressor oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I never could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon in a compressor which I have to believe runs at a much lower temperature than a compressor, but that is their statement), but also: - Heat absorption: Air compressor oil absorbs the heat produced from compressed air, thereby keeping the compressor at a cooler temperature. - Oxidation resistance: Air compressor oil contains additives that delay the oxidation process and acid formation. - Longer life span: The additives in air compressor oil also increase the lubricant?s lifetime, protect machine components when on standby and make the lubricant compatible with a wide variety of conditions. - Viscosity in cold temperatures: Although some oils fail to do their job once the temperature drops, air compressor oil maintains its viscosity even when it?s cold. - Demulsification: Air compressor oil also contains additives designed to improve water separation, which will protect the compressor from water and oil emulsions. This makes it easier for the oleophilic bags to capture the oil later on. - Anti-foaming abilities: When big air bubbles rise to the oil?s surface, foam is produced. This increases oxidation because it exposes more of the oil?s surface to oxygen. Without anti-foaming additives, the oil separators would be saturated by the foam and the air compressor?s life span would decrease. This is because saturated oil separators create a pressure drop, which leads to more energy consumption. Another article I read recommends these three: 1. Dewalt Synthetic Air Compressor Oil 2. Royal Purple 01513 Synthetic Air Compressor Oil 3. Campbell Hausfeld MP12 Standard Compressor Lubricant The Dewalt is 20wt and better for start-ups in colder climates. Royal Purple is 30wt and better for warmer climates. The author said for hard working compressors, this is his first choice. The CH is his recommendation for older pumps with more blow-by. It also says change the oil every 800 hours, or minimally once a year. Unless I am in a major project, I probably do not get 800 hours of runtime a year, but an annual change will be on the calendar from now on. Thank you again, Moose for your post; best post of the day for me. I will be changing my oil this week, will be using Royal Purple, and will put a recurring reminder on my Outlook calendar to change it yearly, at least. Best, doug On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 12:19?AM Moose wrote: > I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got > it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, > right away.) > > Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but > when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. > > I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a > pain to clean it out. > In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand > that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or > specs > > The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill > out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then > pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) > > Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find > out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little > easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on > Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds > me to change the oil. > > OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? > > Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is > easier to get and or better. > > Thanks! > > Moose_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Jan 6 07:59:42 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 06:59:42 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, synthetic is often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1 I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not dealing with combustion byproducts. Bob On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote: > I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I > got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, > free, right away.) > > Anyway. ?I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but > when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. > > I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. ?It > was a pain to clean it out. > In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can > understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. ?No > alternatives or specs > > The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to > fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days > later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) > > Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to > find out if ?can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a > little easier to deal with. ?Ideally, I would love to find the correct > oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months > so it reminds me to change the oil. > > OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? > > Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is > easier to get and or better. > > Thanks! > > Moose > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 09:38:09 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 08:38:09 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi Bob, Wow, that sounds like good oil, US-made, and the price is great. Thank you. best, doug On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25?AM Bob Spidell wrote: > My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or more > years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He probably changed the > oil a couple times but not in the last 10 years or so that I know of. The > motor cooked a while back--after a large painting job--and I installed a > new one with a new belt, and changed out the oil. I did a lot of > 'shopping,' but was mostly considering price. These days, synthetic is > often the same price or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better > oil (the old tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get > Valvoline 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 > semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this: > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1 > > I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see any > evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since you're not > dealing with combustion byproducts. > > Bob > > On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote: > > I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got > it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, > right away.) > > Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but > when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. > > I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a > pain to clean it out. > In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand > that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or > specs > > The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill > out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then > pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) > > Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find > out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little > easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on > Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds > me to change the oil. > > OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? > > Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is > easier to get and or better. > > Thanks! > > Moose > > _______________________________________________ > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alfuller194 at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 10:20:08 2024 From: alfuller194 at gmail.com (alfuller194 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 09:20:08 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <254c01da40c4$99881150$cc9833f0$@gmail.com> Yes, it IS sad to see well respected brands decline in quality! Re: ?Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. ? I have to assume the domestic companies ARE getting what they are ordering from the foreign suppliers, raising the question of why are they either [1] specifying lower quality, or [2] specifying higher quality but accepting lesser goods? ----------------------------------- All the best, Al Fuller From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of old dirtbeard Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:27 PM To: eric at megageek.com Cc: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) I am very sorry to hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer for over 50 years. I have a very larage collection of tools from them. I know that they were purchased in 2021 by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial, a Chinese conglomerate. I believe that some/most of the manufacturing is still done here, but it is no longer an American company. For new purchases I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made and owned, but things changs. I bought a Backyard Buddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was wonderful. It was made by Steel Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last month, but now it is owned by Advantage Lifts which sells imported lifts as well. Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported parts are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. I truly hate to see this degradation of quality happen to really good American tool companies. I guess I am just glad that I have most of the tools now that I will ever need. best, doug On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16?PM > wrote: Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out some info. After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost a month, nothing. Then I posted here and others expressed their dissatisfaction with SK as well. I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my claim. They stated that they did not have it. I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again. Again, they said they didn't have it. Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that meant.) But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a replacement, since the kit wasn't available. So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.) About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email. Nothing. Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about 4 days later. I pay it within an hour of getting it. About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and will be shipping out the replacement. Now, this was about mid Dec. So I hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays. Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it. Since the place is only about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it. So I now have my new SK breaker bar. Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. In the end, I am not at all happy. American tool companies used to be worth the extra price. However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a new one. The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS. Really? If they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping one way at least! I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop in the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools. And to have me without a tool for over 3 months! I mean if I was making my living with their tools, I would have been starving. I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. I hope they are happy. If any of them break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. Moose _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Jan 6 11:17:18 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:17:18 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> Message-ID: You're quite welcome. I didn't even catch the 'made in USA;' I assumed it was German, what with 'Kompressor.' I needed a little less than a half-gallon. Since I don't know what was in the pump, and I didn't drain/clean it all that well I figure I'll run for a year or so, then change it out one more time then never again. bs On 1/6/2024 8:38 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Wow, that sounds like good oil, US-made, and the price is great. > > Thank you. > > best, > > doug > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 8:25?AM Bob Spidell wrote: > > My late father had a 5HP, 60gal DeVilbiss he bought probably 30 or > more years ago; it gets light/medium duty on our ranch. He > probably changed the oil a couple times but not in the last 10 > years or so that I know of. The motor cooked a while back--after a > large painting job--and I installed a new one with a new belt, and > changed out the oil. I did a lot of 'shopping,' but was mostly > considering price. These days, synthetic is often the same price > or even cheaper and I think by-and-large it's better oil (the old > tractors still get cheap mineral 10W-40, the Healeys get Valvoline > 20W-50 Racing and the Mustang gets Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20 > semi-syn; free from the dealer). I settled on this: > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094S6FKF4/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&th=1 > > > I pumped the old oil out the top with a vacuum unit and didn't see > any evidence of sludge and, actually I wouldn't expect any since > you're not dealing with combustion byproducts. > > Bob > > On 1/5/2024 6:51 AM, Moose wrote: >> I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless >> since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they >> replaced it, free, right away.) >> >> Anyway.? I maybe let the oil go a little too long between >> changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was >> filled with sludge. >> >> I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever.? >> It was a pain to clean it out. >> In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can >> understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil.? >> No alternatives or specs >> >> The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you >> have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a >> few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) >> >> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I >> wanted to find out if ?can get the same (or better) oil from a >> place that is a little easier to deal with. ?Ideally, I would >> love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring >> delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil. >> >> OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to >> change? >> >> Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that >> is easier to get and or better. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Moose > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 11:31:43 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 10:31:43 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) In-Reply-To: <254c01da40c4$99881150$cc9833f0$@gmail.com> References: <254c01da40c4$99881150$cc9833f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: My guess is that they look to fill the specs (e.g., caster wheel rated at X lbs.) and procure based upon price. I wrote a lengthy, factual assessment comparing the previous "made in USA lift" to the current "assembled in USA lift" detailing where the newer one fell short. I did like the ramp and wheel chock design on the newer one better, and I told them that as well. We will see if they respond. On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 9:20?AM wrote: > Yes, it IS sad to see well respected brands decline in quality! > > > > Re: ?Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US > steel, many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says > "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported parts > are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. ? > > > > I have to assume the domestic companies ARE getting what they are ordering > from the foreign suppliers, raising the question of why are they either [1] > specifying lower quality, or [2] specifying higher quality but accepting > lesser goods? > > > > ----------------------------------- > > All the best, > > > > Al Fuller > > > > *From:* Shop-talk *On Behalf Of *old > dirtbeard > *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:27 PM > *To:* eric at megageek.com > *Cc:* Shop-talk at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] SK breaker bar Saga (the final update) > > > > I am very sorry to hear this, Moose. I too have been a loyal SK customer > for over 50 years. I have a very larage collection of tools from them. > > > > I know that they were purchased in 2021 by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial, > a Chinese conglomerate. I believe that some/most of the manufacturing is > still done here, but it is no longer an American company. > > > > For new purchases I believe Proto and Wright still are US-made and owned, > but things changs. > > > > I bought a Backyard Buddy 4-post automotive lift in 2019 that was > wonderful. It was made by Steel Valley Lifts. I ordered another one last > month, but now it is owned by Advantage Lifts which sells imported lifts as > well. > > > > Although the core Backyard Buddy lift is still made in the US of US steel, > many of the ancillary components now are imported and it only says > "assembled in USA" instead of "made in USA." The substituted imported parts > are not up to the quality of the Backyard sold by Steel City. > > > > I truly hate to see this degradation of quality happen to really good > American tool companies. I guess I am just glad that I have most of the > tools now that I will ever need. > > > > best, > > > > doug > > > > On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:16?PM wrote: > > Well, in Oct, my SK breaker bar broke. > I couldn't find any phone numbers or anything, just a website to fill out > some info. > > After putting in a claim for the "breaker bar repair kit", I waited almost > a month, nothing. Then I posted here and others expressed their > dissatisfaction with SK as well. > > I finally found an email and sent them one asking if they received my > claim. They stated that they did not have it. > > I resubmitted it, waited 2 days and emailed again. Again, they said they > didn't have it. > > Then about a day later, they sent me an email stated they DID have it, but > they didn't see it because the email address (I have no idea what that > meant.) > > But they also said that I would have to send them the broken tool in for a > replacement, since the kit wasn't available. > > So I spend about $12 sending it in (with all the postal tracking and such.) > > About 2 weeks AFTER I confirmed they received it, I sent another email. > Nothing. > > Then, I get an invoice for the shipping of the new tool to me for $8 about > 4 days later. I pay it within an hour of getting it. > > About a week later, I get a message saying they received my payment and > will be shipping out the replacement. Now, this was about mid Dec. So I > hoped they would get it in the mail sooner before the holidays. > > Nope, they waited until the new year to ship it. Since the place is only > about 4 hours away from me in PA, it only took 2 days to get it. So I now > have my new SK breaker bar. > > Note, in all my emails to them I expressed how much I loved SK tools, and > how I relied on my breaker bar and how I would have to buy a cheap one to > use in the meantime if it was going to take a while to replace. > > In the end, I am not at all happy. American tool companies used to be > worth the extra price. However, I know that if I had a cheap Home Depot > Rigid one and walked into a store with it broken, I would walk out with a > new one. > > The other thing is that I had to pay the shipping BOTH WAYS. Really? If > they didn't like the photos I sent, they could have paid for the shipping > one way at least! I mean, $20 isn't going to break me, but it is a drop in > the bucket for a company that charges a MAJOR premium for tools. And to > have me without a tool for over 3 months! I mean if I was making my living > with their tools, I would have been starving. > > I will NO LONGER buy SK tools. I hope they are happy. If any of them > break, I'm headed to a local Lowes and replacing them with their house > brands (they used to do that in the past at least.) > > Anyway, just wanted to let all of you know what happened with the bar. > > Moose _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JIBrooks at live.com Sat Jan 6 11:47:02 2024 From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 18:47:02 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Moose, Uh-Oh, I've been using Mobil 1 full synthetic automotive oil in my typically lightly used 5HP compressor for about 20 years, changing it very irregularly. I did run the compressor with the tank valve wide open for a few hours with mineral oil for break-in first, before draining and switching to the synthetic (a typical automotive practice). I'm more concerned about the tank rusting through than I am the compressor's life. Sludge buildup is a surprise to me. Is it possible your sludge issue is not related to the type of oil, but perhaps a condensation issue? Jack From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Moose Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 6:52 AM To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.) Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a pain to clean it out. In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or specs The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil. OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better. Thanks! Moose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Sat Jan 6 13:31:42 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (Moose) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:31:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jack, yes my issue could have been with some sort of condensation. My compressor is in an unheated concrete garage next to my heated shop, so there is moisture in there. Not sure what I could do to combat the sludge, except to change the oil more often (which is what I'm going to do.) Moose From: Jack Brooks To: "Shop-talk at autox.team.net" Date: 01/06/2024 15:24 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil Sent by: "Shop-talk" Moose, Uh-Oh, I?ve been using Mobil 1 full synthetic automotive oil in my typically lightly used 5HP compressor for about 20 years, changing it very irregularly. I did run the compressor with the tank valve wide open for a few hours with mineral oil for break-in first, before draining and switching to the synthetic (a typical automotive practice). I?m more concerned about the tank rusting through than I am the compressor?s life. Sludge buildup is a surprise to me. Is it possible your sludge issue is not related to the type of oil, but perhaps a condensation issue? Jack From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Moose Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 6:52 AM To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.) Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a pain to clean it out. In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or specs The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil. OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better. Thanks! Moose_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Sat Jan 6 14:21:50 2024 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 16:21:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] More air compressor talk Message-ID: <1fddec25-0616-4bfb-8794-b45ae00fb98c@sackheads.org> The recent thread about air compressor oil has reminded me about some behavior I'm seeing with my 25gal Craftsman Professional compressor. As I recall, there were two variants of this compressor...mine is the horizontal version with separate motor and pump. Motor is wired for 120V. For years, I used the guy on a 15A circuit. Maybe 10 years ago, I installed a 120/20A circuit for some woodworking tools and I started plugging the compressor into that. Last fall, I tried to run the compressor on the old 15A circuit with about 100psi in the tank and it wouldn't turn over -- tripped the breaker. Removed the belt and the motor started fine. So I figured the start capacitor is probably going bad and the 20A circuit can still push enough power through the start windings to get things spinning. Neither of my multimeters can measure capacitance that high so I couldn't test test them. Caps are cheap low-hanging fruit so I replaced both last weekend. The compressor now starts on the 15A circuit but it grunts for a second or two before it comes up to speed. So it's an improvement but definitely not the behavior I remember from years ago. Maybe the unloader valve is also going bad? It hisses when the compressor shuts off but maybe it's not fully relieving the pressure? Is there a way to test this? Any other ideas? J From dhlocker at protonmail.com Sat Jan 6 16:37:52 2024 From: dhlocker at protonmail.com (Donald H Locker) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 23:37:52 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The purpose of detergent in automotive oils is to keep particles suspended so that they can be removed when the oil is pumped through the filter. If there is no filter, the particles remain suspended in the oil that is circulated/splashed about; those particles can abrade surfaces if not removed from the oil. Non-detergent oils allow the particles to settle to the bottom of the sump, which happens when the compressor stops or is idle. Donald. On 2024-01-06 08:28, old dirtbeard wrote: > HI Moose, > > Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I have not experienced that when changing my oil. > > I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me that I have not changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to look for oil. > > I saw this Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound like compressor oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I never could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon in a compressor which I have to believe runs at a much lower temperature than a compressor, but that is their statement), but also: > > - Heat absorption: Air compressor oil absorbs the heat produced from compressed air, thereby keeping the compressor at a cooler temperature. > - Oxidation resistance: Air compressor oil contains additives that delay the oxidation process and acid formation. > - Longer life span: The additives in air compressor oil also increase the lubricant?s lifetime, protect machine components when on standby and make the lubricant compatible with a wide variety of conditions. > - Viscosity in cold temperatures: Although some oils fail to do their job once the temperature drops, air compressor oil maintains its viscosity even when it?s cold. > - Demulsification: Air compressor oil also contains additives designed to improve water separation, which will protect the compressor from water and oil emulsions. This makes it easier for the oleophilic bags to capture the oil later on. > - Anti-foaming abilities: When big air bubbles rise to the oil?s surface, foam is produced. This increases oxidation because it exposes more of the oil?s surface to oxygen. Without anti-foaming additives, the oil separators would be saturated by the foam and the air compressor?s life span would decrease. This is because saturated oil separators create a pressure drop, which leads to more energy consumption. > > Another article I read recommends these three: > [1. Dewalt Synthetic Air Compressor Oil](https://www.tooltally.com/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#1_Dewalt_Synthetic_Air_Compressor_Oil) > [2. Royal Purple 01513 Synthetic Air Compressor Oil](https://www.tooltally.com/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#2_Royal_Purple_01513_Synthetic_Air_Compressor_Oil) > [3. Campbell Hausfeld MP12 Standard Compressor Lubricant](https://www.tooltally.com/best-oil-for-air-compressor/#3_Campbell_Hausfeld_MP12_Standard_Compressor_Lubricant) > > The Dewalt is 20wt and better for start-ups in colder climates. Royal Purple is 30wt and better for warmer climates. The author said for hard working compressors, this is his first choice. The CH is his recommendation for older pumps with more blow-by. > > It also says change the oil every 800 hours, or minimally once a year. Unless I am in a major project, I probably do not get 800 hours of runtime a year, but an annual change will be on the calendar from now on. > > Thank you again, Moose for your post; best post of the day for me. I will be changing my oil this week, will be using Royal Purple, and will put a recurring reminder on my Outlook calendar to change it yearly, at least. > > Best, > > doug > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2024 at 12:19?AM Moose wrote: > >> I have a nice Eaton compressor (7.5HP) that has been flawless since I got it (not, the first one I got had a bad weld, but they replaced it, free, right away.) >> >> Anyway. I maybe let the oil go a little too long between changes, but when I went to change it this time, the oil was filled with sludge. >> >> I use the Eaton oil, and the compressor is not overworked ever. It was a pain to clean it out. >> In the manual, it says I can't use automotive oil (and I can understand that.) but it just has a Eaton part # for their oil. No alternatives or specs >> >> The problem is that ordering the oil from them is a pain (you have to fill out a form. Then wait for them to send an invoice a few days later, then pay the invoice and wait for them to ship it.) >> >> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a great company, but I wanted to find out if can get the same (or better) oil from a place that is a little easier to deal with. Ideally, I would love to find the correct oil on Amazon and set up a 'reoccurring delivery' for every 6 months so it reminds me to change the oil. >> >> OR, is their an oil that doesn't turn to sludge and is easy to change? >> >> Again, overall, I am not looking for a cheaper oil, just one that is easier to get and or better. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Moose_______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jan 6 17:15:58 2024 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 17:15:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor Oil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <369A3B9B-B2D6-428C-A8E7-EC4776C9D834@gmail.com> > On Jan 6, 2024, at 09:00, old dirtbeard wrote: > > ? > HI Moose, > > Surprised to hear that there was sludge in the oil when you drained it; I have not experienced that when changing my oil. > > I also thank you for posting this message as it reminded me that I have not changed the oil in my compressor for a long time and need to look for oil. > > I saw this Quincy article on compressor oil options, but it does sound like compressor oil mainly needs to be non-detergent to eliminate carbon build-up (I never could understand why automotive engine oil would create carbon in a compressor which I have to believe runs at a much lower temperature than a compressor, but that is their statement), but also: Detergent oil keeps debris is suspension so it can be removed by the filter. If you don?t have a filter (and compressors don?t), you want a non detergent oil, so the debris can settle into the crank. I strongly suspect moose?s sludge is a by product of condensation and short run time that doesn?t get the oil hot enough to drive it out. Frankly, compressors are low load, and modern oils so good, any compressor oil is good enough. If the manufacturer makes it hard to buy from them, I take that as a sign they don?t want my money, and spend it elsewhere. It?s the third decade of the 21st century, if they don?t have a way to buy with a credit card, well, they clearly aren?t interested in selling anything. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sun Jan 7 08:50:23 2024 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:50:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? Message-ID: 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-) Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I don't have any washers . thanks, jim From dirtbeard at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 09:24:34 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 08:24:34 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I bought a couple of these collections in metal boxes years ago and am truly glad that I did. One is a machine screw, nut, washer set, the other was a general maintenance set. McMaster-Carr On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 8:13?AM Jim Franklin wrote: > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year > collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-) Other than asking > the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection > quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and > today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short > screws and I don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjzwissler at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 10:32:34 2024 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Benjamin Zwissler) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 12:32:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook marketplace feed. Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and sometimes just someone's home collection, old coffee cans and cigar boxes included. I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so often around me anymore. Ben On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13?AM Jim Franklin wrote: > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year > collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-) Other than asking > the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection > quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and > today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short > screws and I don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sun Jan 7 11:06:12 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:06:12 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b09e643-cfb6-40cf-83ec-ff076383f8bd@comcast.net> I've got a whole stack of 'assortments' I've bought at Harbor Freight and big box stores, including screws, grommets, cotters, O-rings, connectors, zerks, you name it. Quality may be suspect--even 'name' brands are often sourced from you-know-where anyway--but, in a pinch, they'll save you from an unnecessary trip to the hardware store. The one thing I try to avoid, except in trivial applications, is electrical connectors; the best ones, I've found, are at boating supply houses. https://www.harborfreight.com/57-piece-stainless-steel-machine-screw-kit-67675.html On 1/7/2024 9:32 AM, Benjamin Zwissler wrote: > I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook > marketplace feed.? ?Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and > sometimes just someone's home collection,? old coffee cans and cigar > boxes included. > > I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so > often around me anymore. > > Ben > > On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13?AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 > year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-)? > ?Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts > on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for > M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old > washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I > don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sun Jan 7 11:07:25 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 10:07:25 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0539d739-b74c-45c0-9152-b1ded3e666cd@comcast.net> ps. Before buying off a FB link, do a search on the product; you'll usually find them MUCH cheaper elsewhere. On 1/7/2024 9:32 AM, Benjamin Zwissler wrote: > I see collections like that come up pretty regularly on my Facebook > marketplace feed.? ?Sometimes it's the hardware style bins and > sometimes just someone's home collection,? old coffee cans and cigar > boxes included. > > I also used to see stuff at estate auctions but those don't happen so > often around me anymore. > > Ben > > On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 11:13?AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 > year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-)? > ?Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts > on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for > M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old > washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I > don't have any washers . > > thanks, > jim > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Sun Jan 7 14:22:01 2024 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2024 16:22:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick start fasdtener collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <197363f1-c795-463e-8576-9c5d515129ed@sackheads.org> On 1/7/24 10:50, Jim Franklin wrote: > 2 years ago I sold my house and moved overseas, giving away my 25 year collection of assorted fateners. Now I need it back :-) Other than asking the local classifieds/freecycle, any thoughts on how to amass a collection quickly? Yesterday I paid $1 each for M8 pan head screws to mount a TV and today I discovered the old washers are permanently affixed to the old short screws and I don't have any washers . I usually buy assortments from Amazon.? Stainless bolts/nuts, nylock nuts, washers, automotive clips, O-rings... It's a quick way to build up a decent collection to have on hand.? I'd use McMaster for something that needs to be high-strength but for normal use cases, Amazon seems fine.? I replaced all the bolts and screws on my snowblower housing with stainless versions from these assortments 6-7 years ago and they're still in good shape. J From dreinsch at swbell.net Tue Jan 9 21:03:24 2024 From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:03:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.? Had the radio and inside lights on.? When she finished and came out, car would not start.? Completely dead.? Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question:? In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.? This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.? Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.? Would not start with good set of booster cables.? Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.? So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?? (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks,Dwade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave1massey at cs.com Wed Jan 10 05:25:10 2024 From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 12:25:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1212861862.11186471.1704889510406@mail.yahoo.com> Depends on the failure mode.? Most batteries loose plate area and can produce less current than when new and that is when the cranking slows down.? These modern cars start so quickly that one may not notice that the cranking speed is slower than normal.? That happened to me on my Fiesta.? One day it seemed fine, the next it cranked over quite slowly and the next day it wouldn't start.? Load testing will give ample warning as the guys who changed my oil a few months before warned me my battery capacity was low. On the other hand, it an internal link between the cells breaks loose the failure will be instantaneous and there is no way to predict those.? If your battery won't recharge it may be because of this failure.? Dave On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 12:35:42 AM CST, Dwade Reinsch wrote: This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.? Had the radio and inside lights on.? When she finished and came out, car would not start.? Completely dead.? Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question:? In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.? This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.? Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.? Would not start with good set of booster cables.? Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.? So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?? (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks,Dwade_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation? $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 05:47:15 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:47:15 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The newer cars are highly dependent upon sensor reads for the various computers and can/will act differently than the older analogue cars with dying batteries. It sounds like your battery may have shorted plates, perhaps due to sulfation or other mechanical causes, for such an abrupt failure to occur. I am curious, though, as to why your car would not start when jumped from a running vehicle. If you have a voltmeter on the dash it would be interesting to see what it shows with the key on, and then when you had the jump going. If you do not have a dash voltmeter, an OBDII reader may be able to show it for you. Good luck today with the battery replacement and you might wish to compare the voltage reading pre and post battery swaps. best, doug On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 10:39?PM Dwade Reinsch wrote: > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for > granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front > seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, > car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back > to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by > cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly > and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to > help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start > with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in > the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, > and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before > being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > Thanks, > Dwade > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronnie.day at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 06:19:05 2024 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:19:05 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that we bought used about 4 years ago and I just had to replace the battery in it for the second time. This time I went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought because that was pretty much all that was available in the small town where we were at the time it quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get occasional sub freezing weather, The old battery didn't give much indication that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the battery location it's not easy to use a load tester to check it. As you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to the radio without the motor running. Been there...! As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too maintenance critical much beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a larger 24F battery in it instead of the smaller batteries we had in our Accords. It draws a LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a computer with wheels and a motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maintenance on that motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recommendation, there's a very real risk of lunching the motor due to a broken belt. The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primarily to get that V-6 through the required emissions period from new, is known to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines much past the 105K unless it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new spark plugs! I also feel the vehicle is relatively hard on tires, even though I religiously have the tires rotated every 5K and keep a close eye on the air pressure. We bought the Odyssey instead of a CR-V for a couple reasons, but we haven't really needed the extra seats as often as we did when our grandkids were younger. Next summer we're planning to buy a used Civic (manual trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's just the two of us. I don't like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either car gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the Odyssey, and this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably. This info may not help other than to let you know your experience isn't unusual. RD On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54?AM Dwade Reinsch wrote: > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for > granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front > seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, > car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back > to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by > cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly > and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to > help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start > with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in > the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, > and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before > being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > Thanks, > Dwade > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Wed Jan 10 06:37:38 2024 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:37:38 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5BDAE3C3-9D8C-4288-8516-903170F8FD7C@icloud.com> Dwade, only times I?ve had similar problems was when the temperature dropped to near freezing for the first time going into winter. I?ve only had it happen when the car has been sitting cold for the night. Without remembering to take the vehicle to get the battery checked when cold weather is coming, it?s just hit & miss. One other thought though. My 2017 Camry draws a lot of power when the key is on but the engine off. There is even a warning in the manual to have the engine running while programming the car from the LCD display. I disregarded that warning for a 5 minute programming & the car barely started. Battery is good & I?ve had no problem since. That was over a year ago. Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2024, at 12:55?AM, Dwade Reinsch wrote: ? This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks, Dwade _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Jan 10 09:46:50 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 08:46:50 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <84555058-c96c-4560-a45a-1c0298b22ce4@comcast.net> I have 4 cars and a truck, two old tractors, a quad, a Gator and a riding lawnmower; I spend quite a bit of time dealing with batteries and electrical systems. Modern batteries, say, those built in the last 20 years or so, aren't generally built to last. Most of them are made by only a couple of companies, Johnson Controls being the largest, and most are now constructed in Mexico (I use a shop owned by a Hispanic man to rebuild my Britcar batteries and starters, and he told me Mexican batteries are 'crap;' he used to recommend Optima, but they were bought by JC (I think) and he quit recommending them). My '08 Mustang GT had two batteries die, with no warning, at almost exactly 3 years; both were 'Motorcraft' brand, but if you look close you could see 'Johnson Controls.' Besides failing with no warning, which I attribute to internal shorting as someone suggested, I have lots of issues with leaking, causing the terminals to corrode and a mess in your engine compartment. I think the poor quality is due to thinner lead plates--a rule-of-thumb I use is the heavier the battery the better the battery--and cases are flimsier and they just don't bother to get good seals around the terminals. I shudder to think of what the Mexican battery factories look like. The one battery brand that makes consistently good batteries is Deka, built by East Penn manufacturing in Pennsylvania (NFI). They source some of the common brands, like Duracell I think, and they seem to last. But, be careful, Napa, for instance, claims to get theirs from East Penn, but I bought one for my '19 Mustang the other day--yep, the OEM 'Motorcraft' leaked at 4 years, and I had to pull the whole box to clean it up--and the Napa had a 'Made in Korea' sticker on it; I'm not sure what to think (there is a Deka dealer on the far side of town; next time I make the drive). For the non-autos, I bought deep-cycle and starting batteries--both SLA--off Amazon with the brand 'Weizen;' they were among the cheapest but both have performed well and held up. I bought an 'X2 Power' AGM for one of the Healeys and it's been nails for over 6 years. Some of my vehicles have to sit for long periods; if so, I put them on a 'smart' charger (I like BatteryMinder, I've heard good things about BatteryTender). These will not only keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodically, which I believe involves pulsing the battery with a higher voltage (I got one specifically for AGMs for the Healey battery; at $300+ I want it to last and not fail in the middle of nowhere). To answer OPs question, most dealers and shops these days use a battery tester in lieu of a load tester; they give a lot more info. I bought an even cheaper version of this one, but this one looks to have good quality clamps: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z67MMGC/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3EMYY4GBP2W2D&psc=1 Bob On 1/10/2024 5:19 AM, Ronnie Day wrote: > We have a '15 Odyssey EX-L that?we bought used about 4 years ago and I > just had to replace the battery in it for the second time. This time I > went with a Duracell AGM ($150, IIRC) from Sam's, The previous battery > was an old style lead acid from Wally World, bought because that was > pretty much all that was available in the small?town where we were at > the time it?quit on us. We live about 35 miles NW of Bryan/College > Station in Central Texas and have only just begun to get > occasional?sub freezing?weather, The old battery didn't give much > indication that it was on the way out before it quit, and due to the > battery location it's not easy to use a load tester to check it. As > you discovered it's risky to sit and listen to the radio without the > motor running. Been there...! > > As nice a vehicle as the Odyssey is, IMO it's too maintenance?critical > much beyond 100K. At least Honda uses a larger 24F battery in it > instead of the smaller batteries we had in our Accords.? It draws a > LOT of power. The vehicle is basically a computer with wheels and a > motor, seriously! And you have to be careful with maintenance on that > motor. If you go past the 105K timing belt replacement recommendation, > there's a very real risk of lunching?the motor due to a broken belt. > The cylinder deactivation setup, designed and included primarily to > get that V-6 through?the required?emissions?period from new, is known > to probably cause excessive oil consumption on engines much past the > 105K unless it's deactivated. Honda dealers get around $2500 to do the > timing belt service, and then get another $500 to swap in new spark > plugs! I also feel the vehicle?is relatively hard on tires, even > though I religiously have the tires rotated?every 5K and keep a close > eye on the air pressure. > > We bought the Odyssey instead of a?CR-V for a?couple reasons, but we > haven't really needed?the?extra seats as often as we did?when our > grandkids were younger. Next summer we're planning?to buy a used Civic > (manual trans) or a Mazda 3 (manual or A/T) for use when it's?just the > two of us. I don't like CVTs, Mazda doesn't use them at all. Either > car gets far better mileage than the low/mid 20s we get with the > Odyssey, and this will extend the useful life of the Odyssey considerably. > > This info may not help other?than to let you know your > experience?isn't unusual. > > RD > > > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 12:54?AM Dwade Reinsch > wrote: > > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting > for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep > in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on.? When she > finished and came out, car would not start.? Completely dead. > Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question:? In the old days a weak battery would give > notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.? This is the car > I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.? Luckily, I could call > son-in-law and he came to help.? Would not start with good set of > booster cables.? Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on > cables before attempting to start.? So in the morning I'll take > pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the > van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery > before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > Thanks, > Dwade > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Wed Jan 10 09:50:07 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:50:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <5BDAE3C3-9D8C-4288-8516-903170F8FD7C@icloud.com> References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <5BDAE3C3-9D8C-4288-8516-903170F8FD7C@icloud.com> Message-ID: Dwade, I had a problem this summer with a modern car (and one of the reason I think I'm keeping all my current cars for the rest of my life.) It was a 2017 FIAT 500. We drove about 4 hours and stopped for a bite to eat. About 30 mins later, car wouldn't start, key turned normally to the 'on' position, but wouldn't turn to the start position, AND we couldn't remove it. All idiot lights were lit on the dash. So now we have a car we can't start, can't remove the key, and no idea what is the problem. Car had not given any prior warnings. I called a local tow shop and it was one of my buddies that told me over the phone, it's a dead battery. I couldn't believe it. The car was just running, so the battery should be charged as best as it could be. Well, he shows up (with a new battery that I asked him to get on his way.) 5 mins to replace the battery and all was well. I would NEVER have guessed a dead battery, but these modern cars are so full of sensors and circuits, that weird things can, AND WILL, happen. Moose From: Pat Horne To: Dwade Reinsch Cc: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Date: 01/10/2024 09:52 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Sent by: "Shop-talk" Dwade, only times I?ve had similar problems was when the temperature dropped to near freezing for the first time going into winter. I?ve only had it happen when the car has been sitting cold for the night. Without remembering to take the vehicle to get the battery checked when cold weather is coming, it?s just hit & miss. One other thought though. My 2017 Camry draws a lot of power when the key is on but the engine off. There is even a warning in the manual to have the engine running while programming the car from the LCD display. I disregarded that warning for a 5 minute programming & the car barely started. Battery is good & I?ve had no problem since. That was over a year ago. Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2024, at 12:55?AM, Dwade Reinsch wrote: ? This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks, Dwade _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 10:17:13 2024 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:17:13 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> > On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: > > ? > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > If used properly, the conductance testers work well. Not cheap, but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible. Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer. (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.) Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. Without that, the car won?t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars). The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn?t move. This fall, I drove my wife?s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start. Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bk13 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 10 13:44:58 2024 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 20:44:58 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Message-ID: <1b0bb406-6632-6580-089b-0570be55d3d7@earthlink.net> My daughter's 2022 Honda HRV battery died while she was listening to music waiting for a friend. She said every light on the dash came on. Tough situation trying to help a teenager in college on the other side of the country. The service rep at her local Honda diagnosed the problem as most likely the battery over the phone as did Honda Care service. Honda Care said they couldn't get to her for about 3 hours so she had a friend with a jump starter get her going and went to the dealer where they confirmed the battery had failed at the 18 month point and replaced it under warranty. >From multiple forums, it turns out that the HRV batteries are likely marginal at the start to save money and weight. She now has her own jump box and learned how to use it for when this happens the next time. I had a 2004 then a 2012 Odyssey and both had batteries fail with almost no warning. Many current batteries are a case of they don't make them like they used to. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Dwade Reinsch Sent: Jan 9, 2024 10:42 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) Thanks, Dwade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 1789alpine at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 14:10:50 2024 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:10:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: While not a direct answer to your question, I do want to share two observations about Hondas and batteries. First, while my five Hondas have all been mechanically bulletproof, I can?t say the same thing for their recent OEM batteries. My 2017 Ridgeline went though 3 Honda batteries in its first three years. Then, shortly after the warranty expired, the dealer told me the third was going bad and should be replaced - this time at my expense. I replaced it with an Interstate battery that has now considerably outlasted the 3 Honda ones. I don?t know who has been making Honda?s batteries, but the three I got between 2017 and 2020 all sucked. Second, I think your 2016 Odyssey is the same platform as my 2017 Ridgeline (Gen 2 for Ridgelines) and uses a Start button rather than a key. If so, I have noticed that the ACC ?position? (hitting the Start button twice without putting your foot on the brake) turns on a lot more than just the radio, including the HVAC system. But one day I absent mindedly shut off the car with the transmission in neutral; the radio stayed on but everything else shut off. I now do that if I want to listen to the radio in the car, leaving it in neutral and setting the parking brake. It seems to work fine and presumably won?t tax the battery like the ACC position would. Jim > On Jan 9, 2024, at 11:03 PM, Dwade Reinsch wrote: > > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) > > Thanks, > Dwade > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 15:10:45 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:10:45 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50 years. ? Best, Doug mobile ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of David Scheidt Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM To: Dwade Reinsch Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: ? This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) If used properly, the conductance testers work well. Not cheap, but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible. Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer. (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.) Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. Without that, the car won?t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars). The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn?t move. This fall, I drove my wife?s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start. Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Wed Jan 10 16:39:05 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (Moose) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 18:39:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses Message-ID: OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jniolon at att.net Thu Jan 11 04:44:01 2024 From: jniolon at att.net (john) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:44:01 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Fuses References: <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw.ref@johns-desktop> Message-ID: <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw@johns-desktop> ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: Moose Sent: 1/11/2024 5:43:29 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses you can do it with a meter but especially go buy a circuit breaker of the proper amperage, instead of more fuses keep backing up until you find your short put all your fuses back in the proper slots when you finish ! ----- Original Message ----- From: Moose To: Sent: 1/10/2024 5:39:05 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave1massey at cs.com Thu Jan 11 05:59:23 2024 From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:59:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> The trick I learned is to replace the fuse with a headlight.? The short will cause the headlight to glow full bright.? Once the short is cleared the other lights will illuminate dimmly as will your fuse replacement and now it is safe to reinstall the fuse. Dave On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose wrote: OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here,but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blowsa fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuitand try again. ?Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuitand try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things,blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to dothis without having to blow fuses? ?I'm guessing a meter should show0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a opencircuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go througha hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation? $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 06:20:33 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 05:20:33 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Fuses In-Reply-To: <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw@johns-desktop> References: <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw.ref@johns-desktop> <1UhOVKl6Pr.KFaMfb0uLRw@johns-desktop> Message-ID: Another option is to disconnect the positive terminal of the battery and then connect a 12VDC battery charger to the positive lead and to ground. The charger should not be enough to blow the fuses and it also generally will not damage your harness. Most battery chargers have circuit breakers and will pop if shorted. I am wiring lighting for my Lotus Eleven right now and am using an old 10 amp battery charger and my Simpson 260 meter to chase down the circuits and find the shorts. The multi-wire cables from the chassis to the clams have rotted and been chafed by the tires, shorting internally. best, doug On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 4:21?AM john wrote: > > > > *----- Original Message -----* > *From:* john > *To:* Moose > *Sent:* 1/11/2024 5:43:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses > ------------------------------ > you can do it with a meter but especially go buy a circuit breaker of the > proper amperage, instead of more fuses > keep backing up until you find your short > > put all your fuses back in the proper slots when you finish ! > > > *----- Original Message -----* > *From:* Moose > *To:* > *Sent:* 1/10/2024 5:39:05 PM > *Subject:* [Shop-talk] Fuses > ------------------------------ > OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. > > My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. > > So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. > > I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. > > Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. > > I found the short, fixed it and all is well. > > My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? > I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, > but I was not getting a open circuit. > > Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? > > Thanks. > > Moose > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Thu Jan 11 06:26:27 2024 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:26:27 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Moose, for headlights & other high power circuits, replace the fuse with a headlight bulb. If there is a short it will light to full brightness. For lower current circuits, use a lamp that is lower draw than the fuse. You could have used a smaller bulb on your headlight diagnosis if you disconnected the headlights. Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2024, at 10:21?PM, Moose wrote: ?OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Jan 11 09:08:15 2024 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:08:15 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:17?PM Moose wrote: > > OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. > > My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. > > S replace the fuse with a circuit breaker. you can get circuit breakers that fit in most fuse holders. I've also soldered wires to the terminals of the blown fuse to attach a circuit breaker holder to. In addition to being cheaper to reset, you can fiddle with the value of the breaker to see if it's a dead short, or overload. as for finding them with a meter, my experience is most automotive shorts are both intermittent (only happen when a wire moves to the right place to rub the bare wire on something) and not really dead shorts and have lots of resistance. this makes finding them more fun! okay, not really. but good technique is important. Access to a good diagram helps a lot, because shorts usually happen where there's a junction, where the wires pass through the body or frame, or at a load. being able to divide the system in parts, and test them indiviudually is key to finding them. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 12 04:21:56 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (Moose) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 06:21:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dave, This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) But is this safe? Couldn't it melt wires if there is a short? This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing! Best tip of the year! Moose From: DAVID MASSEY To: "shop-talk at autox.team.net" , Moose Date: 01/11/2024 07:59 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses The trick I learned is to replace the fuse with a headlight. The short will cause the headlight to glow full bright. Once the short is cleared the other lights will illuminate dimmly as will your fuse replacement and now it is safe to reinstall the fuse. Dave On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose wrote: OK, I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses? I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is still a short, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave1massey at cs.com Fri Jan 12 06:51:50 2024 From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 13:51:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <374960492.745655.1705067510704@mail.yahoo.com> A 50W headlamp will limit current to 5 amps or so.? Just about any wire used in a British car harness will carry that easily enough.? If you are concerned about the wire size you can place two headlamps in series to limit current to 2.5A.? A short to ground will just look like a ground connection to the headlamp. Dave On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 05:22:00 AM CST, Moose wrote: Dave, This is brilliant (figuratively ANDliterally) 8>) But is this safe? ?Couldn't itmelt wires if there is a short? This is a really great idea I neverhear of, so thanks for sharing! Best tip of the year! Moose From: ? ? ??DAVID MASSEY To: ? ? ??"shop-talk at autox.team.net", Moose Date: ? ? ??01/11/2024 07:59 Subject: ? ?? ?Re: [Shop-talk]Fuses The trick I learned is to replace the fusewith a headlight. ?The short will cause the headlight to glow fullbright. ?Once the short is cleared the other lights will illuminatedimmly as will your fuse replacement and now it is safe to reinstall thefuse. Dave On Wednesday, January 10, 2024at 10:11:39 PM CST, Moose wrote: OK, I'm sure I'm missingsomething here, but I figured I'd ask. My Jeep had a short circuit and blows a fuse if I turn on the lights. So I remove all bulbs on the circuit and try again. ?Blown fuse. I take some other items off the circuit and try again, blown fuse. Moving around and trying different things, blowing fuses all around. I found the short, fixed it and all is well. My question is, is there a way to do this without having to blow fuses??I'm guessing a meter should show 0ohm resistance if there is stilla short, but I was not getting a open circuit. Any ideas so I don't have to go through a hand full of fuses next time? Thanks. Moose _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation ?$12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talkhttp://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jblair1948 at cox.net Fri Jan 12 07:59:41 2024 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (JohnT Blair) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:59:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <920202111.2853997.1705071581046@myemail.cox.net> On 01/12/2024 6:21 AM EST Moose wrote: >This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) But is this safe? Couldn't it melt wires if there >is a short? Moose, Yes it's safe if you do it correctly. You want to use a good socket, if it's not plastic wrap it with electrical tape. We use this for finding a short in a piece of electronic equipment. Put a 60W light bulb in a box in series with the outlet that you plug the equipment into. This will limit the current to 1/2 amp. I also suggest (someone else mentioned this) that you make some sort of adapter to plug into the fuse socket. For the old glass cylindrical fuses, solder a piece of insulated wire on each end so you can connect clip leads to the wire to connect to the light bulb or to the circuit breaker. For the spade type, take a couple of spades and solder insulated wire to the spades. The secret is to use something to use limit the current to less that the original fuse, ie. if the circuit that has the problem has a 10A fuse, limit the current to 5A. How? Use ohms and Watts law, Ohms law: E = I * R E - Voltage, I - Current, R - Resistance. Watts law: P = I * E P - power (watts) So for a 10 A circuit in a 12 V system, R = E / I, you'll need R = 12V / 10A = about 1 ohm of resistance. You also need to account for the power: P = I * E or P = 10A * 12V or 120 W. This is why you use light bulbs. But they should be closely matched to the power used by the circuit being worked on. If you go too low of wattage, the light bulb will burn out, If you go to high, then the light bulb won't limit the current enough to protect the circuit. >This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing! Yes, I use it for electronics. But you need incandescent bulbs. https://www.instructables.com/Light-Bulb-Current-Limiter/ For automotive I prefer to have different size circuit breakers, 1, 5, 10, 20, 30A breakers and clip leads. JohnT, John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 & 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo P1800 Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org/ If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Fri Jan 12 08:07:51 2024 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:07:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 1/12/24 06:21, Moose wrote: > Dave, > > This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) > > But is this safe? ?Couldn't it melt wires if there is a short? As long as your wire won't melt when powering the bulb directly from a power source, it'll be fine. A light-bulb current-limiter is a technique that techs and hobbyists sometimes use when repairing old audio amplifiers. When the bulb's filament is cold, it has a pretty low resistance so it doesn't usually affect the circuit.? A 100W light bulb, for instance, has a cold resistance of about 10 ohm.? When plugged into a working circuit that doesn't normally carry a lot of current, the bulb's filament conducts but not enough to glow.? If there's a short circuit somewhere, much more current flows and it all gets dumped through the bulb and it gets bright.? Since the bulb is part of the circuit, it sets an upper bound on the amount of current that can flow so by choosing your bulb carefully, you can protect your fuses and the rest of the circuit while you troubleshoot. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eugene.abbondelo at gmail.com Fri Jan 12 08:19:19 2024 From: eugene.abbondelo at gmail.com (Gene Abbondelo) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:19:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air drill trigger sticking Message-ID: I have an old Ingersoll Rand 1/4 chuck air drill that runs well but now won't shut off after releasing the trigger. I've disassembled it to clean it out and hope that that will fix the problem, Anyone have luck with doing this or is this problem unrepairable? I suspect parts are unobtainable and the model number is obliterated on the handle label. Also, on reassembly, do the ball bearings get greased or just oiled with air tool oil? I'm very attached to this drill and would like to keep it going. Thanks, Gene -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 12 09:34:48 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:34:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: <920202111.2853997.1705071581046@myemail.cox.net> References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> <920202111.2853997.1705071581046@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: Thanks so much for this information. I can't believe that I might actually be looking forward to my next short circuit! 8>) Everyone, have a great day and thanks for all the help! Moose From: JohnT Blair To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Date: 01/12/2024 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuses Sent by: "Shop-talk" On 01/12/2024 6:21 AM EST Moose wrote: >This is brilliant (figuratively AND literally) 8>) But is this safe? Couldn't it melt wires if there >is a short? Moose, Yes it's safe if you do it correctly. You want to use a good socket, if it's not plastic wrap it with electrical tape. We use this for finding a short in a piece of electronic equipment. Put a 60W light bulb in a box in series with the outlet that you plug the equipment into. This will limit the current to 1/2 amp. I also suggest (someone else mentioned this) that you make some sort of adapter to plug into the fuse socket. For the old glass cylindrical fuses, solder a piece of insulated wire on each end so you can connect clip leads to the wire to connect to the light bulb or to the circuit breaker. For the spade type, take a couple of spades and solder insulated wire to the spades. The secret is to use something to use limit the current to less that the original fuse, ie. if the circuit that has the problem has a 10A fuse, limit the current to 5A. How? Use ohms and Watts law, Ohms law: E = I * R E - Voltage, I - Current, R - Resistance. Watts law: P = I * E P - power (watts) So for a 10 A circuit in a 12 V system, R = E / I, you'll need R = 12V / 10A = about 1 ohm of resistance. You also need to account for the power: P = I * E or P = 10A * 12V or 120 W. This is why you use light bulbs. But they should be closely matched to the power used by the circuit being worked on. If you go too low of wattage, the light bulb will burn out, If you go to high, then the light bulb won't limit the current enough to protect the circuit. >This is a really great idea I never hear of, so thanks for sharing! Yes, I use it for electronics. But you need incandescent bulbs. https://www.instructables.com/Light-Bulb-Current-Limiter/ For automotive I prefer to have different size circuit breakers, 1, 5, 10, 20, 30A breakers and clip leads. JohnT, John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 & 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo P1800 Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jan 12 12:44:17 2024 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 14:44:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuses In-Reply-To: References: <1370429843.203224.1704977963889@mail.yahoo.com> <920202111.2853997.1705071581046@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: <6578B6BD03780E90@altprdrgo01.altice.prod.msg.synchronoss.net> (added by postmaster@optonline.net) Before we close out this subject, have any of you ever tried one of these "fuse buddy" devices? Looks interesting. https://www.esitest.com/C/17/FuseBuddy -Steve T. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com From dreinsch at swbell.net Fri Jan 12 21:06:41 2024 From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:06:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> Message-ID: <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and batteries. I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and continues to run perfectly.? I guess I'll just have to have battery tested after about three years of use. Thanks again!! Dwade On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard wrote: Hi David,? Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50 years. ? Best, DougmobileFrom: Shop-talk on behalf of David Scheidt Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM To: Dwade Reinsch Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.? On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: ?This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat.? Had the radio and inside lights on.? When she finished and came out, car would not start.? Completely dead.? Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question:? In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing.? This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning.? Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.? Would not start with good set of booster cables.? Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start.? So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?? (Battery is about 4 years old.) If used properly, the conductance testers work well. ?Not cheap, but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible. ?Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer. ?(OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.) Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. ?Without that, the car won?t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars). ?The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn?t move.? This fall, I drove my wife?s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. ?Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start. ?Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Sat Jan 13 02:54:18 2024 From: eric at megageek.com (Moose) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:54:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One more note of stupidity on this topic. Modern Range Rover requires their computer to change a battery! That's right, you need to tell their computer there is a new battery. I'm not sure if other makes are going this way, but it is one item on the long list of reasons I'll never own another RR! Moose From: Dwade Reinsch To: David Scheidt , old dirtbeard Cc: "shop-talk at autox.team.net" Date: 01/12/2024 23:12 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. Sent by: "Shop-talk" Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and batteries. I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and continues to run perfectly. I guess I'll just have to have battery tested after about three years of use. Thanks again!! Dwade On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard wrote: Hi David, Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50 years. ? Best, Doug mobile From: Shop-talk on behalf of David Scheidt Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM To: Dwade Reinsch Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: ? This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Had the radio and inside lights on. When she finished and came out, car would not start. Completely dead. Electric seat would not come back to driving position, etc. Here's the question: In the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NO warning. Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. Would not start with good set of booster cables. Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before being stranded? (Battery is about 4 years old.) If used properly, the conductance testers work well. Not cheap, but every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is accessible. Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by the computer. (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.) Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. Without that, the car won?t do anything (the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars). The various computers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn?t move. This fall, I drove my wife?s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start. Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave1massey at cs.com Sat Jan 13 07:03:43 2024 From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 14:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <750332025.1171982.1705154623226@mail.yahoo.com> Ford, for one, does this.? They have a current sensor in the negative cable and the computer integrates the current in and out and computes the net battery charge.? When using an external charger it is important to connect the negative to the engine block so as not to bypass the current sensor so the computer can monitor the charge current and reflect the charger's current in the battery charge calculations. I expect there are others that do the same. Dave On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 04:39:57 AM CST, Moose wrote: One more note of stupidity on this topic.?Modern Range Rover requires their computer to change a battery! That's right, you need to tell theircomputer there is a new battery. I'm not sure if other makes are goingthis way, but it is one item on the long list of reasons I'll never ownanother RR! Moose From: ? ? ??Dwade Reinsch To: ? ? ??David Scheidt ,old dirtbeard Cc: ? ? ??"shop-talk at autox.team.net" Date: ? ? ??01/12/2024 23:12 Subject: ? ?? ?Re: [Shop-talk]Stranded by a bad car battery. Sent by: ? ?? ?"Shop-talk" Thanks to all who added to my knowledge basefor modern cars and batteries. I replaced the old battery the next morning,started right up, and continues to run perfectly. ?I guess I'll justhave to have battery tested after about three years of use. Thanks again!! Dwade On Wednesday, January 10, 2024at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard wrote: Hi David, Yes, I do understand aboutthe lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50 years.? Best, Doug mobile From: Shop-talk on behalf of David Scheidt Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM To: Dwade Reinsch Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. ? On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48,Dwade Reinsch wrote: ? This afternoon I was sittingin the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to finish a theateractivity and I went to sleep in the front seat. ?Had the radio andinside lights on. ?When she finished and came out, car would not start.?Completely dead. ?Electric seat would not come back to drivingposition, etc. Here's the question: ?Inthe old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking slowly, etc.,before failing. ?This is the car I drive regularly and it gave NOwarning. ?Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help. ?Wouldnot start with good set of booster cables. ?Would not start with 15minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. ?So in themorning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a replacement,and move the van home. Does anyone have a suggestionfor identifying a failing battery before being stranded? ?(Batteryis about 4 years old.) If used properly, the conductancetesters work well. ?Not cheap, but every auto parts store will testfor you, assuming your battery is accessible. ?Many cars, startingjust a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and battery performanceinformation tracked by the computer. ?(OnStar sent me email tellingme the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame ata campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace the batteryfor a couple months before I actually had it replaced.) Modern cars have much higherloads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good voltageto turn the computer on. ?Without that, the car won?t do anything(the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars). ?The variouscomputers also control all the other parts, which is why the seat couldn?tmove. This fall, I drove my wife?sfusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a couple timesto get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to start it,battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slowcranking. ?Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger handy.10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest settinglet it start. ?Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough voltageto turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of thegarage, it was 4 or 5 years old.) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation ?$12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talkhttp://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation? $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Jan 13 08:30:20 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 07:30:20 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: References: <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <6E660B9F-228C-4E54-9B59-975B7DD07E40@gmail.com> <293333551.1114819.1705118801621@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68b84e6f-d969-468a-954d-2af4185558b5@comcast.net> Other makes do this as well. Modern cars have a 'battery management system' or similar because so much is now run on electricity--steering, for instance--that you have to have assured power at all times. I learnt of all this when I asked a simple (I thought) question on a Mustang forum about using a 12V source in parallel so I wouldn't lose all my settings--drive mode, satellite, etc.--when I needed to swap a leaker. F150s, for example, have a pretty elaborate process to even charge a battery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A After a lengthy, er, discussion I said 'F-it' and just swapped batteries like I always have; I lost my custom drive mode but was none the worse off for wear. But, I recommend you read your owners' manual before doing anything on the electrical system of a car built in the last 10 years or so. Bob On 1/13/2024 1:54 AM, Moose wrote: > One more note of stupidity on this topic. ?Modern Range Rover requires > their computer to change a battery! > > That's right, you need to tell their computer there is a new battery. > > I'm not sure if other makes are going this way, but it is one item on > the long list of reasons I'll never own another RR! > > Moose > > > > From: Dwade Reinsch > To: David Scheidt , old dirtbeard > > Cc: "shop-talk at autox.team.net" > Date: 01/12/2024 23:12 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. > Sent by: "Shop-talk" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and > batteries. > > I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and > continues to run perfectly. ?I guess I'll just have to have battery > tested after about three years of use. > > Thanks again!! > > Dwade > > > > On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard > wrote: > > > Hi David, > > Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated > many over the last 50 years. ? > > Best, > > Doug > mobile > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of > David Scheidt * > Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM* > To:* Dwade Reinsch * > Cc:* shop-talk at autox.team.net * > Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. > > > > On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch wrote: > > ? > This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for > granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the > front seat. ?Had the radio and inside lights on. ?When she finished > and came out, car would not start. ?Completely dead. ?Electric seat > would not come back to driving position, etc. > > Here's the question: ?In the old days a weak battery would give notice > by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. ?This is the car I drive > regularly and it gave NO warning. ?Luckily, I could call son-in-law > and he came to help. ?Would not start with good set of booster cables. > ?Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before > attempting to start. ?So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and > pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before > being stranded? ?(Battery is about 4 years old.) > > > If used properly, the conductance testers work well. ?Not cheap, but > every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is > accessible. ?Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy, > have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by > the computer. ?(OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low > when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also > get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple > months before I actually had it replaced.) > > Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them > require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. ?Without > that, the car won?t do anything (the computer controls the starter > solenoid on most cars). ?The various computers also control all the > other parts, which is why the seat couldn?t move. > > This fall, I drove my wife?s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I > turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot. > The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds > earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. ?Since I was in > the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something > like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start. ?Plenty > of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on. > (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4 > or 5 years old.) > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation ?$12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pethier7 at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 09:27:55 2024 From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:27:55 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: <84555058-c96c-4560-a45a-1c0298b22ce4@comcast.net> References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <84555058-c96c-4560-a45a-1c0298b22ce4@comcast.net> Message-ID: > keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodically Sidebar: If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not use a charger with a 'desulfation' cycle'. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Tue Jan 16 09:49:18 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:49:18 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. In-Reply-To: References: <273712f9-789c-4dea-9798-490a481d1442@comcast.net> <2061225123.11096260.1704859404855@mail.yahoo.com> <84555058-c96c-4560-a45a-1c0298b22ce4@comcast.net> Message-ID: Yes, that mode will damage Li-Ion batteries. Best, Doug mobile ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Philip Ethier Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 8:27:55 AM To: Bob Spidell Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery. > keep your battery topped-up without overcharging, but claim to perform a 'desulfation' cycle periodically Sidebar: If you happen to have any lithium batteries in anything, do not use a charger with a 'desulfation' cycle'. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Wed Jan 24 06:10:35 2024 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:10:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Message-ID: https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ From bbubeck01 at gmail.com Wed Jan 24 06:42:00 2024 From: bbubeck01 at gmail.com (Bruce Bubeck) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 08:42:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Jim, Whil;e we're at it here's another. Damn mice.. https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/of-mice-and-machines-porsche-fuses-death-traps-and-imagination-gone-awry/ On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:15?AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bbubeck01 at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Wed Jan 24 07:00:44 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 06:00:44 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Laguna Seca is a treasure. It is like the folks who build a home next to a dairy farm and then try to shut down the farm's operations because they do not like the odor. Shame on them... On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 5:27?AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Wed Jan 24 07:42:07 2024 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:42:07 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Wed Jan 24 09:30:23 2024 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:30:23 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is tongue in cheek. ? Best, Doug mobile ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Wed Jan 24 09:55:44 2024 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:55:44 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8085A206-1917-47B4-A0D3-8EAEC2EFEE9F@icloud.com> A friend of mine lived by the Austin Tx airport years ago & some new neighbors came by asking him to sign a petition to have the airport moved. It had been there for about 60 years! Some people! Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:51?AM, old dirtbeard wrote: ? It is tongue in cheek. ? Best, Doug mobile From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neiljsherry at talktalk.net Wed Jan 24 10:14:35 2024 From: neiljsherry at talktalk.net (neiljsherry at talktalk.net) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:14:35 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: <8085A206-1917-47B4-A0D3-8EAEC2EFEE9F@icloud.com> References: <8085A206-1917-47B4-A0D3-8EAEC2EFEE9F@icloud.com> Message-ID: <21ED9498-1413-4291-83FE-34943BCAB3EE@talktalk.net> ...and our local race track (Mallory Park, UK) had exactly this type of complaint a few years ago. People also move in next to churches and complain about the bells being rung. On 24 January 2024 16:55:44 GMT, Pat Horne wrote: >A friend of mine lived by the Austin Tx airport years ago & some new neighbors came by asking him to sign a petition to have the airport moved. It had been there for about 60 years! >Some people! > >Pat Horne >We support Habitat for Humanity > > >On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:51?AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > >? >It is tongue in cheek. ? > >Best, > >Doug >mobile >From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM >To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > >Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > >From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM >To: Shop Talk >Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > >https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com > >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Jan 24 10:14:35 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 09:14:35 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93ddd989-5492-4226-939e-5c438c1700b0@comcast.net> I think the lawsuit might be real, but Hagerty is torching the people behind it. Same shit happens near airports; most notably Reid-Hillview in the Bay Area. The mayor of Chicago at the time--I think he had Mafia connections--had Meigs Field torn up overnight, illegally, but was never held accountable. I'm waiting for someone in Daly City to file a lawsuit to shut down SFO. On 1/24/2024 6:42 AM, Tim . wrote: > Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:*?Shop-talk on behalf of Jim > Franklin > *Sent:*?Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM > *To:*?Shop Talk > *Subject:*?[Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Wed Jan 24 12:54:00 2024 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:54:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I Googled the lawsuit and it looks to be real.? The gist seems to be the homeowners are complaining that the track has begun scheduling events much more frequently than they have historically. On 1/24/24 09:42, Tim . wrote: > Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:*?Shop-talk on behalf of Jim > Franklin > *Sent:*?Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM > *To:*?Shop Talk > *Subject:*?[Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation? $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjcora at icloud.com Wed Jan 24 13:11:09 2024 From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:11:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The article is tongue in cheek, the lawsuit is real. ? Tom Coradeschi tjcora at icloud.com > On 24 Jan 2024, at 11:30 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > > It is tongue in cheek. ? > > Best, > > Doug > mobile > From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 6:42:07 AM > To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > > Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > > From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM > To: Shop Talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > > https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com > From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Wed Jan 24 13:55:57 2024 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 20:55:57 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I seem to vaguely remember that as housing built up around the Sacramento airport many decades ago that this same thing happened. I guess my sarcasm detector was not working when I read the article. People tend to suck. ffs ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 8:42 AM To: Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Jan 24 16:35:16 2024 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:35:16 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: <93ddd989-5492-4226-939e-5c438c1700b0@comcast.net> References: <93ddd989-5492-4226-939e-5c438c1700b0@comcast.net> Message-ID: > On Jan 24, 2024, at 11:46, Bob Spidell wrote: > > ? I think the lawsuit might be real, but Hagerty is torching the people behind it. Same shit happens near airports; most notably Reid-Hillview in the Bay Area. The mayor of Chicago at the time--I think he had Mafia connections--had Meigs Field torn up overnight, illegally, but was never held accountable. I'm waiting for someone in Daly City to file a lawsuit to shut down SFO. > > The city was fined for not filling the appropriate notice to airmen. Beyond that, there wasn?t anything criminal about it. The city owns the property, and can do what it likes with it. Worst case someone had some civil claims against the city for violating a lease or other contract, but again that?s not criminal. I am no fan of Daley, but he was right on that. Meigs was ugly, loud, and not used by Chicagoans. It was a subsidized private airport, used exclusively by private planes. The current use as a park and concert venue is much better, and enjoyed by vastly more people. From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Jan 24 17:49:30 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:49:30 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: <93ddd989-5492-4226-939e-5c438c1700b0@comcast.net> Message-ID: If true--I still recall some shenanigans, but have no source--then I stand corrected. The City of San Jose--memory vague--took substantial funds from the FAA to keep RHV open as a reliever/emergency strip then turned around and tried to shut it down (well, the developers who had a hard-on for the land did). People buy/build homes near raceways, airports etc. at reduced prices fully intending to start filing lawsuits as soon as they move in. If you're a big fan of Zoe Lofgren, still in Congress AFAIK, she made her name crusading against RHV; fortunately, she went on to bigger and better things. Sounds like you're not a pilot; pilots take airport closures--any of them--personal. bs On 1/24/2024 3:35 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > >> On Jan 24, 2024, at 11:46, Bob Spidell wrote: >> >> ? I think the lawsuit might be real, but Hagerty is torching the people behind it. Same shit happens near airports; most notably Reid-Hillview in the Bay Area. The mayor of Chicago at the time--I think he had Mafia connections--had Meigs Field torn up overnight, illegally, but was never held accountable. I'm waiting for someone in Daly City to file a lawsuit to shut down SFO. >> >> > The city was fined for not filling the appropriate notice to airmen. Beyond that, there wasn?t anything criminal about it. The city owns the property, and can do what it likes with it. Worst case someone had some civil claims against the city for violating a lease or other contract, but again that?s not criminal. I am no fan of Daley, but he was right on that. > > Meigs was ugly, loud, and not used by Chicagoans. It was a subsidized private airport, used exclusively by private planes. The current use as a park and concert venue is much better, and enjoyed by vastly more people. > > From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Jan 24 17:55:24 2024 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:55:24 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c5a3b53-8aba-4121-9e04-1b1119994dc3@comcast.net> Probably Sac Executive. Sac Metro is still out in the industrial area/boonies, but will be surrounded by housing developments in a decade or two. On 1/24/2024 12:55 PM, Tim . wrote: > I seem to vaguely remember that as housing built up around the > Sacramento airport many decades ago that this same thing happened. > > I guess my sarcasm detector was not working when I read the article. > > People tend to suck. ffs > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:*?Shop-talk on behalf of Tim > . > *Sent:*?Wednesday, January 24, 2024 8:42 AM > *To:*?Jim Franklin ; Shop Talk > > *Subject:*?Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day > Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave1massey at cs.com Wed Jan 24 18:27:33 2024 From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 01:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077164041.616392.1706146053751@mail.yahoo.com> What, since COVID?? Go figure. Dave On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 03:44:53 PM CST, Jimmie Mayfield wrote: I Googled the lawsuit and it looks to be real.? The gist seems to be the homeowners are complaining that the track has begun scheduling events much more frequently than they have historically. On 1/24/24 09:42, Tim . wrote: Is this actually real? This reads like something from The Onion.? From:?Shop-talk on behalf of Jim Franklin Sent:?Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:10 AM To:?Shop Talk Subject:?[Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day ? https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/laguna-seca-lawsuit-homeowners-perplexed-as-iconic-race-track-materializes-overnight/ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation? $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com _______________________________________________Shop-talk at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlSuggested annual donation $12.96Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archiveUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation? $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JIBrooks at live.com Thu Jan 25 12:40:06 2024 From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 19:40:06 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day In-Reply-To: References: <93ddd989-5492-4226-939e-5c438c1700b0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Exactly the point I was going to make Bob. Here in WA, Pacific Raceways has the same issue. It was built years ago and the houses built nearby were of lower price due to the racing activities, so the new owners lobby to close down the track. It's gotten some time limitations on it, but so far so good. I have the same problem with people lobbying for sound walls along roadways. You bought your home at a discount due to proximity to a major roadway, don't ask the rest of us to subsidize making it quieter. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Bob Spidell Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:50 PM To: David Scheidt ; shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Some entertainment for a winter's day If true--I still recall some shenanigans, but have no source--then I stand corrected. The City of San Jose--memory vague--took substantial funds from the FAA to keep RHV open as a reliever/emergency strip then turned around and tried to shut it down (well, the developers who had a hard-on for the land did). People buy/build homes near raceways, airports etc. at reduced prices fully intending to start filing lawsuits as soon as they move in. If you're a big fan of Zoe Lofgren, still in Congress AFAIK, she made her name crusading against RHV; fortunately, she went on to bigger and better things. Sounds like you're not a pilot; pilots take airport closures--any of them--personal. bs On 1/24/2024 3:35 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > >> On Jan 24, 2024, at 11:46, Bob Spidell wrote: >> >> ? I think the lawsuit might be real, but Hagerty is torching the people behind it. Same shit happens near airports; most notably Reid-Hillview in the Bay Area. The mayor of Chicago at the time--I think he had Mafia connections--had Meigs Field torn up overnight, illegally, but was never held accountable. I'm waiting for someone in Daly City to file a lawsuit to shut down SFO. >> >> > The city was fined for not filling the appropriate notice to airmen. Beyond that, there wasn?t anything criminal about it. The city owns the property, and can do what it likes with it. Worst case someone had some civil claims against the city for violating a lease or other contract, but again that?s not criminal. I am no fan of Daley, but he was right on that. > > Meigs was ugly, loud, and not used by Chicagoans. It was a subsidized private airport, used exclusively by private planes. The current use as a park and concert venue is much better, and enjoyed by vastly more people. > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks at live.com