From jniolon at att.net  Sun Sep  8 20:04:06 2024
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2024 21:04:06 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>

I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m windshield 
adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to get them out of 
the c channel they are glued into... 
What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..

any suggestions...
thanks
john
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From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun Sep  8 20:55:49 2024
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2024 22:55:49 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9Vk=P1h9PXUqdmeH7VFp9xzyCEjiBT_1JO1XeSd3erXAA@mail.gmail.com>

Xylene is good at dissolving contact cement and other types of
pressure-sensitive adhesive, especially the stuff on masking tape, duct
tape, etc.

But modern windshield adhesive may be polyurethane, and I have never heard
of anything that would dissolve that.

Doug

On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 10:13?PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m
> windshield adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to
> get them out of the c channel they are glued into...
> What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried
> goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..
>
> any suggestions...
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug at dougbraun.com
>
>
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From bk13 at earthlink.net  Sun Sep  8 22:44:44 2024
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2024 21:44:44 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <80ac2e10-f9e4-4ff8-8f96-22f0996ca414@earthlink.net>

John - I had some sort of black adhesive or caulk that was used to 
bandage a worn windshield rubber seal on my GT6.? I cleaned it all off 
with WD40.? I first used a trim tool like the one on the left in the 
picture at 
https://www.harborfreight.com/trim-and-molding-tool-set-5-piece-64126.html 
to remove most of it.? I then used the WD40 with blue paper towel style 
shop towels to further clean away the remainder of the gunk.

The stuff I had to remove probably wasn't as good or difficult as your 
3M adhesive, but it wouldn't hurt to try WD40.? I was very happy to get 
the gunk off the paint without damage.

Brian

On 9/8/2024 7:04 PM, john niolon wrote:
> I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m 
> windshield adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and 
> need to get them out of the c channel they are glued into...
> What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... 
> tried goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..
>
> any suggestions...
> thanks
> john
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 04:07:19 2024
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 06:07:19 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPCWo5hT8gQFYWnrTxR_uvXrRXZNT6cFSUuL=k2aw5ygQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can you use a razor blade or wire to mechanically separate the glass from
the channel?  That's how windshields are removed from the frame of modern
cars.  Easy to clean the residue once they are apart.

On Sun, Sep 8, 2024, 22:14 john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m
> windshield adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to
> get them out of the c channel they are glued into...
> What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried
> goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..
>
> any suggestions...
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Mon Sep  9 06:52:33 2024
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 12:52:33 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <MN6PR14MB7197022528D918A0872C1835B4992@MN6PR14MB7197.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

In the early months of my retirement, I have taken a ? job (splitting a part time job with another retired guy) delivering whole sale body shop supplies to the various body shops around the Madison area.

I deliver this product to many of them. They go through a lot of it.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070712/
[https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1066869J/3m-general-purpose-adhesive-cleaner-08984-1-quart-us.jpg]<https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070712/>
3M? General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner<https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070712/>
3M? General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner removes adhesive residue with ease. Its special formula is tough on adhesive residue but gentle on paint, vinyl and fabric when used as directed. This adhesive cleaner is available as a spray-on aerosol or in a 1-quart can for convenience.
www.3m.com
Good luck
tim
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2024 9:04 PM
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive

I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m windshield adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to get them out of the c channel they are glued into...
What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..

any suggestions...
thanks
john
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Mon Sep  9 08:47:21 2024
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 07:47:21 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <MN6PR14MB7197022528D918A0872C1835B4992@MN6PR14MB7197.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
 <MN6PR14MB7197022528D918A0872C1835B4992@MN6PR14MB7197.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <08f2c7ca-4d9b-4421-984c-2d1b2362a59f@comcast.net>

I was going to recommend this. It's my go-to. I haven't used it on 
windshield adhesive, but it's worked on every other kind I've tried.

It's banned in California (tells you how good it is). Last time I could 
get it, online, I stocked-up.

On 9/9/2024 5:52 AM, Tim . wrote:
> In the early months of my retirement, I have taken a???job (splitting 
> a part time job with another retired guy) delivering whole sale body 
> shop supplies to the various body shops around the Madison area.
>
> I deliver this product to many of them. They go through a lot of it.
>
> https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070712/
> <https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070712/>
> 	
> 3M? General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner 
> <https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070712/>
> 3M? General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner removes adhesive residue with 
> ease. Its special formula is tough on adhesive residue but gentle on 
> paint, vinyl and fabric when used as directed. This adhesive cleaner 
> is available as a spray-on aerosol or in a 1-quart can for convenience.
> www.3m.com
>
> Good luck
> tim
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 09:29:07 2024
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 10:29:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <B767F6D2-1223-4A64-9119-7475AFA879BA@gmail.com>



> On Sep 8, 2024, at 21:15, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m windshield adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to get them out of the c channel they are glued into...
> What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..

Have you asked 3m?  They have pretty good product support, who should know the answer.  I expect the answer is a knife and scraper, because all the windshield adhesives I?ve seen in the last couple decades are urethane, and pretty solvent resistant. 

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From bbubeck01 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 10:34:12 2024
From: bbubeck01 at gmail.com (Bruce Bubeck)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 12:34:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <B767F6D2-1223-4A64-9119-7475AFA879BA@gmail.com>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
 <B767F6D2-1223-4A64-9119-7475AFA879BA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFz8fzA=jz=cbZE0--4Y9hsYB8pwiBkCDJaGQyzK0keqniSi_w@mail.gmail.com>

3M does make an adhesive remover. Sounds like some pretty strong stuff.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070703/

On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 12:15?PM David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sep 8, 2024, at 21:15, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>
> ?
> I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m
> windshield adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to
> get them out of the c channel they are glued into...
> What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried
> goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..
>
>
> Have you asked 3m?  They have pretty good product support, who should know
> the answer.  I expect the answer is a knife and scraper, because all the
> windshield adhesives I?ve seen in the last couple decades are urethane, and
> pretty solvent resistant.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bbubeck01 at gmail.com
>
>
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From alfuller194 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 12:46:10 2024
From: alfuller194 at gmail.com (alfuller194 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 11:46:10 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <26d101db02e8$8a6589a0$9f309ce0$@gmail.com>

Following is the composition of the super weatherstrip and gasket adhesive from the 3M site at: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000087446/

 

If this is the same product you have you can see the ingredient list is mainly naphtha, Hexane and MEK.  Interesting that the stuff when cured does look and feel like a polyurethane. My chemistry is rusty enuogh to prohibit me from commenting on whether this qualifies.

 

I?m not sure what would be a solvent for this combination and they don?t say in that data sheet.   As others have said 3M does have good support folks, and they sell an adhesive remover

 

SECTION 3: Composition/information on ingredients

Ingredient C.A.S. No. % by Wt

Naphtha (petroleum), solvent-refined light 64741-84-0 15 - 40 Trade Secret *

HEXANE 110-54-3 7 - 30 Trade Secret *

Methyl Ethyl Ketone 78-93-3 10 - 30 Trade Secret *

Toluene 108-88-3 < 10 Trade Secret *

Carbon Black 1333-86-4 < 1 Trade Secret *

Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 < 1 Trade Secret *

Methyl isobutyl ketone 108-10-1 < 1 Trade Secret *

STYRENATED PHENOL 61788-44-1 < 0.5 Trade Secret *

Any remaining components do not contribute to the hazards of this material.

*The specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of this composition has been withheld as a trade

secret.

-----------------------------------

All the best,

 

Al Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of john niolon
Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2024 7:04 PM
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive

 

I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m windshield adhesive...I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to get them out of the c channel they are glued into... 

What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..

any suggestions...
thanks
john

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From jniolon at att.net  Mon Sep  9 14:53:14 2024
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 15:53:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <CAFz8fzA=jz=cbZE0--4Y9hsYB8pwiBkCDJaGQyzK0keqniSi_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
 <B767F6D2-1223-4A64-9119-7475AFA879BA@gmail.com>
 <CAFz8fzA=jz=cbZE0--4Y9hsYB8pwiBkCDJaGQyzK0keqniSi_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1UhcYUrCIP.3EdOdOakYIU@johns-desktop>

yea Bruce... the suggested Acetone and wished me good luck

 

 

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Bubeck <bbubeck01 at gmail.com>
To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
Cc: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>, shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 9/9/2024 11:34:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive



3M does make an adhesive remover. Sounds like some pretty strong stuff.  


https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070703/



On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 12:15?PM David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:





On Sep 8, 2024, at 21:15, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:


? 
I have some truck windows set in a power window unit with the 3m windshield 
adhesive..I have to move the windows to a new unit and need to get them out of 
the c channel they are glued into... 
What will desolve this adhesive...don't want to break the glass... tried goo-gone...no help... gonna try acetone next..



Have you asked 3m?  They have pretty good product support, who should know the answer.  I expect the answer is a knife and scraper, because all the windshield adhesives I?ve seen in the last couple decades are urethane, and pretty solvent resistant.  


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bbubeck01 at gmail.com
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From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Sep  9 16:51:09 2024
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 18:51:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <CAFz8fzA=jz=cbZE0--4Y9hsYB8pwiBkCDJaGQyzK0keqniSi_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
 <B767F6D2-1223-4A64-9119-7475AFA879BA@gmail.com>
 <CAFz8fzA=jz=cbZE0--4Y9hsYB8pwiBkCDJaGQyzK0keqniSi_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9U75kocB2EaxJRgwSTB4fBFV7yiTCRXMoo76tXC24NKKA@mail.gmail.com>

The MSDS says the main ingredients are Xylene, Acetone, and Naphtha, so you
can probably cook up your own version.
(Those happen to be the three solvents I always have cans of...)

Doug

On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 2:09?PM Bruce Bubeck <bbubeck01 at gmail.com> wrote:

> 3M does make an adhesive remover. Sounds like some pretty strong stuff.
>
> https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070703/
>
>
>
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From jniolon at att.net  Tue Sep 10 15:04:39 2024
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 16:04:39 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive
In-Reply-To: <CAOtbU9U75kocB2EaxJRgwSTB4fBFV7yiTCRXMoo76tXC24NKKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1UhcXSuSch.2St0NSVBQQW@johns-desktop>
 <B767F6D2-1223-4A64-9119-7475AFA879BA@gmail.com>
 <CAFz8fzA=jz=cbZE0--4Y9hsYB8pwiBkCDJaGQyzK0keqniSi_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOtbU9U75kocB2EaxJRgwSTB4fBFV7yiTCRXMoo76tXC24NKKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1UhcZasbJx.5YHDZRV6wTR@johns-desktop>

done and done... using a utility knife (thin blade) and some 3m adhesive 
cleaner and also prying the track apart gently I got them done
Goo-gone did nothing... acetone was a little better but track fit was so tight 
it was hard to get the liquid down in it.  After widening the track it all went 
quicker and windows out in one piece


thanks for all the suggestions


john

 

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com>
To: Bruce Bubeck <bbubeck01 at gmail.com>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
Sent: 9/9/2024 5:51:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] removing 3m Super Windshield and Gasket Adhesive



The MSDS says the main ingredients are Xylene, Acetone, and Naphtha, so you can 
probably cook up your own version.
(Those happen to be the three solvents I always have cans of...) 



Doug



On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 2:09?PM Bruce Bubeck <bbubeck01 at gmail.com> wrote:

3M does make an adhesive remover. Sounds like some pretty strong stuff.  


https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070703/
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From pethier7 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 16 11:46:59 2024
From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 12:46:59 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Frozen sway-bar slider
Message-ID: <CAE16_w0epzmj-D6+7bF9t8E2ExL4zHp5iF6Ltq+YToeNOsvUjA@mail.gmail.com>

Saturday I ran a small-lot autocross at a dragstrip near Rock Falls
Wisconsin.  My Caterham was pushing a bit and I had trouble staying in the
power band in second gear.

Also, there is a light clicky sound when I drive over bumps on the street.

The click is probably the rear sway-bar moving sideways and hitting the
hose clamps that locate it in its aluminum-block brackets.  First shot at
quieting it is to put in a couple of cable ties between the clamps and the
blocks.  If that does not do it I will slit some PEX.

Next, adjust the rear bar stiffer.  Problem:  I have removed all the
fasteners and the blocks will not move.  The Heim joints pulled out OK.  I
swung the bar down.  It moves very easily.  I shot the blocks with Kroil,
smacked them with a wrench and stopped for lunch. At least if I need to use
heat, the part is far from anything to damage.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier/54000198064
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From tjcora at icloud.com  Mon Sep 16 17:28:17 2024
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 23:28:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Frozen sway-bar slider
In-Reply-To: <CAE16_w0epzmj-D6+7bF9t8E2ExL4zHp5iF6Ltq+YToeNOsvUjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE16_w0epzmj-D6+7bF9t8E2ExL4zHp5iF6Ltq+YToeNOsvUjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f53352d7-eb1b-426a-93a1-6b0e3b499546@me.com>

I think heat is gunna be your friend. On Sep 16, 2024, at 2:02 PM, Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote: Saturday I ran a small-lot autocross at a dragstrip near Rock Falls Wisconsin. My Caterham was pushing a bit and I had trouble staying in the power band in second gear. Also, there is a light clicky sound when I drive over bumps on the street. The click is probably the rear sway-bar moving sideways and hitting the hose clamps that locate it in its aluminum-block brackets. First shot at quieting it is to put in a couple of cable ties between the clamps and the blocks. If that does not do it I will slit some PEX. Next, adjust the rear bar stiffer. Problem: I have removed all the fasteners and the blocks will not move. The Heim joints pulled out OK. I swung the bar down. It moves very easily. I shot the blocks with Kroil, smacked them with a wrench and stopped for lunch. At least if I need to use heat, the part is far from anything to damage. https://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier/54000198064 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
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From pethier7 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 16 22:23:00 2024
From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 23:23:00 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Frozen sway-bar slider
In-Reply-To: <f53352d7-eb1b-426a-93a1-6b0e3b499546@me.com>
References: <CAE16_w0epzmj-D6+7bF9t8E2ExL4zHp5iF6Ltq+YToeNOsvUjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <f53352d7-eb1b-426a-93a1-6b0e3b499546@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAE16_w3XV_voT=q0R9OcRuBSnOSnohZ5is+-qxC9X3VV+rQOQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 6:36?PM Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:

> I think heat is gunna be your friend.
>

I didn't have to resort to the blue flame.  The slider block finally came
loose with liberal application of Kroil and 1100-degree-F air from a heat
gun followed by a twist with a pair of vise-grips.  Ran a half-inch reamer
through the block. Polished all the corrosion off the sway bar with a
sandpaper strip and eery cloth.  Block is 20mm long.  Used one block to put
saw marks 20mm apart on each bar arm on both the inside and outside to
serve as guides to settings.  I set the bar two notches up (40mm plus saw
kerfs). Cat is much-more neutral now.  Front tires are sharing with each
other better with car rolling less.  Plate-style LSD is preventing
wheelspin.  This has transformed the handling, There is much more overall
grip.  I can provoke both understeer and oversteer now.  May try one more
notch at next weekend's autocrosses.  I did have to put a little more bend
in the endlinks to allow one more notch.   They are factory-bent to clear
the DeDion tube.

Took out the lateral drift on the brackets with slit PEX pieces held in
place with hose clamps. Clicky noise is gone.
Phil Ethier
1991 Caterham 1700 Super Sprint



>
> On Sep 16, 2024, at 2:02 PM, Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Saturday I ran a small-lot autocross at a dragstrip near Rock Falls
> Wisconsin.  My Caterham was pushing a bit and I had trouble staying in the
> power band in second gear.
>
> Also, there is a light clicky sound when I drive over bumps on the street.
>
> The click is probably the rear sway-bar moving sideways and hitting the
> hose clamps that locate it in its aluminum-block brackets.  First shot at
> quieting it is to put in a couple of cable ties between the clamps and the
> blocks.  If that does not do it I will slit some PEX.
>
> Next, adjust the rear bar stiffer.  Problem:  I have removed all the
> fasteners and the blocks will not move.  The Heim joints pulled out OK.  I
> swung the bar down.  It moves very easily.  I shot the blocks with Kroil,
> smacked them with a wrench and stopped for lunch. At least if I need to use
> heat, the part is far from anything to damage.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier/54000198064
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Tue Sep 17 07:12:36 2024
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2024 06:12:36 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Frozen sway-bar slider
In-Reply-To: <CAE16_w3XV_voT=q0R9OcRuBSnOSnohZ5is+-qxC9X3VV+rQOQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE16_w0epzmj-D6+7bF9t8E2ExL4zHp5iF6Ltq+YToeNOsvUjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <f53352d7-eb1b-426a-93a1-6b0e3b499546@me.com>
 <CAE16_w3XV_voT=q0R9OcRuBSnOSnohZ5is+-qxC9X3VV+rQOQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgY+wh1YUKwR8h735bSatcNvqYACHut4Pa4YG_myrmE-ww@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Phil,

Your Cat 1700 sounds like a wonderful car. I think they were about 135HP if
I recollect correctly. Do you think the LSD helps traction significantly?

I always thought that with under 150 BHP an LSD probably was not much of an
advantage, just additional maintenance, but it sounds like you think it is
beneficial.

I just rebuilt the rear axle and pumpkin on my '56 Lotus Eleven and decided
against an LSD at the time and you have me wondering whether I missed an
opportunity. I have a Climax FWE at only 110 BHP and the car only
weighs 950 lbs, so it is significantly less powerful and probably lighter
than your Seven. Just curious if you had yours with an open diff before
going LSD.

I'm not racing it currently, just doing the canyons here in SoCal with
"exuberance."
[image: PXL_20240915_220640034.jpg][image: PXL_20240915_215013737.jpg]

On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 9:30?PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 6:36?PM Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think heat is gunna be your friend.
>>
>
> I didn't have to resort to the blue flame.  The slider block finally came
> loose with liberal application of Kroil and 1100-degree-F air from a heat
> gun followed by a twist with a pair of vise-grips.  Ran a half-inch reamer
> through the block. Polished all the corrosion off the sway bar with a
> sandpaper strip and eery cloth.  Block is 20mm long.  Used one block to put
> saw marks 20mm apart on each bar arm on both the inside and outside to
> serve as guides to settings.  I set the bar two notches up (40mm plus saw
> kerfs). Cat is much-more neutral now.  Front tires are sharing with each
> other better with car rolling less.  Plate-style LSD is preventing
> wheelspin.  This has transformed the handling, There is much more overall
> grip.  I can provoke both understeer and oversteer now.  May try one more
> notch at next weekend's autocrosses.  I did have to put a little more bend
> in the endlinks to allow one more notch.   They are factory-bent to clear
> the DeDion tube.
>
> Took out the lateral drift on the brackets with slit PEX pieces held in
> place with hose clamps. Clicky noise is gone.
> Phil Ethier
> 1991 Caterham 1700 Super Sprint
>
>
>
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2024, at 2:02 PM, Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Saturday I ran a small-lot autocross at a dragstrip near Rock Falls
>> Wisconsin.  My Caterham was pushing a bit and I had trouble staying in the
>> power band in second gear.
>>
>> Also, there is a light clicky sound when I drive over bumps on the street.
>>
>> The click is probably the rear sway-bar moving sideways and hitting the
>> hose clamps that locate it in its aluminum-block brackets.  First shot at
>> quieting it is to put in a couple of cable ties between the clamps and the
>> blocks.  If that does not do it I will slit some PEX.
>>
>> Next, adjust the rear bar stiffer.  Problem:  I have removed all the
>> fasteners and the blocks will not move.  The Heim joints pulled out OK.  I
>> swung the bar down.  It moves very easily.  I shot the blocks with Kroil,
>> smacked them with a wrench and stopped for lunch. At least if I need to use
>> heat, the part is far from anything to damage.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier/54000198064
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
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From pethier7 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 17 09:49:39 2024
From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2024 10:49:39 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Frozen sway-bar slider
In-Reply-To: <CAG1pxgY+wh1YUKwR8h735bSatcNvqYACHut4Pa4YG_myrmE-ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE16_w0epzmj-D6+7bF9t8E2ExL4zHp5iF6Ltq+YToeNOsvUjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <f53352d7-eb1b-426a-93a1-6b0e3b499546@me.com>
 <CAE16_w3XV_voT=q0R9OcRuBSnOSnohZ5is+-qxC9X3VV+rQOQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1pxgY+wh1YUKwR8h735bSatcNvqYACHut4Pa4YG_myrmE-ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE16_w3V3ZGyrVsvDokd9Tys9oNQ+Sodnc29sA2nohforJ00aQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 8:12?AM old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Phil,
>
> Your Cat 1700 sounds like a wonderful car. I think they were about 135HP
> if I recollect correctly.
>

You are correct, sir!

Had it on the scales last Thursday.  1340 pounds.  My previous Caterham was
1275.  I could not figure out why, but I think it is largely due to the
rollbar.  This one has a REAL rollbar, and I think the other one was a joke.

Do you think the LSD helps traction significantly?
>

Dunno.  Never drove this car without it.

>
> I always thought that with under 150 BHP an LSD probably was not much of
> an advantage, just additional maintenance, but it sounds like you think it
> is beneficial.
>
> I just rebuilt the rear axle and pumpkin on my '56 Lotus Eleven and
> decided against an LSD at the time and you have me wondering whether I
> missed an opportunity. I have a Climax FWE at only 110 BHP and the car only
> weighs 950 lbs, so it is significantly less powerful and probably lighter
> than your Seven. Just curious if you had yours with an open diff before
> going LSD.
>

There was an open diff on my first Caterham and I did get wheelspin on
corner exits. Then I went overboard and put in 4.11 gears and a Quaiff
"TorSen".  That worked out fine.

Now that I have stiffened the rear swaybar, the LSD is more-important than
before, since by-definition a sway bar works by trying to pick up the
inside wheel.  This adds roll stiffness to the entire car and makes the
front stick better.  I had an adjustable serious rear sway bar on my MG
Midget.  I was always under there tinkering with it, walking a tightrope
between understeer and wheelspin since that car had an open diff.

I suspect that on a racetrack or canyon-carving, this Cat would not get
much added value with LSD, but in autocross corners, I am pretty sure the
LSD helps.  I always wished I had the TorSen in my Elise.  I had one in my
Miata, and I am sure that it helped.

I have no idea why the original owner specified LSD, but I am glad he did.
On the other hand, I cursed whomever put a plate-type LSD in my Europa, as
it made the car push terribly in autocrosses where the traction was not
first-rate.  I put in a bottle of Slick-50 Man Tran and that reduced the
breakaway torque from 90 to 20, which helped a lot.  Since there is more
weight on the front wheels of the Cat than on a Europa, I don't expect that
I will be wishing I had a TorSen.

>
>
> I'm not racing it currently, just doing the canyons here in SoCal with
> "exuberance."
> [image: PXL_20240915_220640034.jpg][image: PXL_20240915_215013737.jpg]
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 9:30?PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 6:36?PM Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think heat is gunna be your friend.
>>>
>>
>> I didn't have to resort to the blue flame.  The slider block finally came
>> loose with liberal application of Kroil and 1100-degree-F air from a heat
>> gun followed by a twist with a pair of vise-grips.  Ran a half-inch reamer
>> through the block. Polished all the corrosion off the sway bar with a
>> sandpaper strip and eery cloth.  Block is 20mm long.  Used one block to put
>> saw marks 20mm apart on each bar arm on both the inside and outside to
>> serve as guides to settings.  I set the bar two notches up (40mm plus saw
>> kerfs). Cat is much-more neutral now.  Front tires are sharing with each
>> other better with car rolling less.  Plate-style LSD is preventing
>> wheelspin.  This has transformed the handling, There is much more overall
>> grip.  I can provoke both understeer and oversteer now.  May try one more
>> notch at next weekend's autocrosses.  I did have to put a little more bend
>> in the endlinks to allow one more notch.   They are factory-bent to clear
>> the DeDion tube.
>>
>> Took out the lateral drift on the brackets with slit PEX pieces held in
>> place with hose clamps. Clicky noise is gone.
>> Phil Ethier
>> 1991 Caterham 1700 Super Sprint
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 16, 2024, at 2:02 PM, Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Saturday I ran a small-lot autocross at a dragstrip near Rock Falls
>>> Wisconsin.  My Caterham was pushing a bit and I had trouble staying in the
>>> power band in second gear.
>>>
>>> Also, there is a light clicky sound when I drive over bumps on the
>>> street.
>>>
>>> The click is probably the rear sway-bar moving sideways and hitting the
>>> hose clamps that locate it in its aluminum-block brackets.  First shot at
>>> quieting it is to put in a couple of cable ties between the clamps and the
>>> blocks.  If that does not do it I will slit some PEX.
>>>
>>> Next, adjust the rear bar stiffer.  Problem:  I have removed all the
>>> fasteners and the blocks will not move.  The Heim joints pulled out OK.  I
>>> swung the bar down.  It moves very easily.  I shot the blocks with Kroil,
>>> smacked them with a wrench and stopped for lunch. At least if I need to use
>>> heat, the part is far from anything to damage.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier/54000198064
>>>
>>>
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From phoenix722 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 30 17:33:17 2024
From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 16:33:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Air
Message-ID: <fe50e651-d07e-43c8-b29a-75b6d04bc294@comcast.net>

I have a very old small air compressor that compresses ok, but I no 
longer can get it to send air to the outlet.? There is a hand valve 
between the gages that turns ok, but doesn't open the valve.? It doesn't 
close it very well, either.? The knob turns fine, and bottoms out in 
both directions, but nothing happens.? Is it possible to buy a 
replacement?? I'm hoping it's just a simple remove and replace.

Sears Model 916-176311.

Mike
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