From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Tue Jul  1 14:33:54 2025
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2025 16:33:54 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding a Battery Pack vs Buying New Generic
In-Reply-To: <CAMHhs6ex7ACR5ax8JcwNL3d+T-27dPP=hhpPBzNLtLKJR4CgkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C1B3B120-D305-4727-8921-EC0B8BADD7C0@gmail.com>
 <114219685.2328749.1750852096833@mail.yahoo.com>
 <F0818D30-552D-4CCE-9D8F-0B66F988D6E5@gmail.com>
 <ffab0fdc-263b-47d2-b65c-bfebcc7b23bb@snet.net>
 <CAMHhs6ex7ACR5ax8JcwNL3d+T-27dPP=hhpPBzNLtLKJR4CgkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77E1D7CE-45EE-4A29-A78A-826046F49761@gmail.com>

Thanks, Ronnie. I?ve watched Project Farm videos before, but never spent time reviewing everything he has to offer.  I could (and undoubtedly will) kill a lot of time there!  I watched a few of the knockoff battery reviews and they were very informative.  Still, I am not sure what my options are here, since there is no longer an OEM version available.  The one I bought (not one of the brands he reviewed, I am afraid) should be here shortly and I will post my review - absent the extensive testing - when I have some experience with it.

> On Jun 27, 2025, at 8:16?AM, Ronnie Day <ronnie.day at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> For third party replacement battery packs check out the various tests on the Project Farm YouTube channel. He does very extensive testing and evaluations.
> 
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 9:52?PM Jim Juhas <james.f.juhas at snet.net <mailto:james.f.juhas at snet.net>> wrote:
>> Jim,
>> 
>> For what it's worth, in case you decide to rebuild, I have rebuilt battery packs for my obsolete Craftsman 12 volt drill,
>> and the battery packs for my old Sunpak high voltage camera flash units. All of these originals were made with NiCd batteries and I've used NiMH with great success. I source the batteries from ONLYBATTERIES.COM <http://onlybatteries.com/>. The great advantage to the rebuild route is I get to select higher capacity batteries than the originals. They take longer to charge with the original chargers but last enough longer in the devices to make it worthwhile. This has been an incredible advantage in using the camera flash unit. The Sunpak packs uses low voltage sub c or AA sizes, depending on when they were made, to operate an oscillator circuit to generate a 510 volt equivalent for the flash.
>> 
>> In my case, the original types are not available anywhere so rebuilding was my only choice.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> <MGA_311_LRP_2.JPG>
>> On 6/26/2025 8:13 PM, Jim Stone wrote:
>>> Thanks, David.  The Amazon listing indicates compatibility with the original charger and several reviews say they had no trouble doing so.  It is a $40-$50 gamble either way and I have too many projects at the moment to add rebuilding a battery pack to the mix.  I will give the Amazon pack a try and report back.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> p.s. I switched to Milwaukee battery tools, as well.  I started with the M12 set and then added M18?s as well.  I especially like the fact that one charger will charge both the 12v and 18v batteries.  I still have some of my old tools and have bought a couple of adaptors to be able to continue using a few of them with the M18 batteries.  They are reasonably inexpensive and work very well.  I wish I could do that with the Bosch saw, but no one make one and, while I could probably rig something using the old pack, I don't want to risk burning out the motor running it at only 18 volts.
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 25, 2025, at 7:48?AM, DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> <mailto:dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I used to have an old Makita drill that came with Ni-Cad a battery that eventually stopped being usable.  I bought a pair of lithium-based replacement batteries.  On the surface they looked like a much better option with double the capacity and they worked with existing drill and charger.  But (there's always a but, isn't there?) to make Lithium batteries work in a Ni-Cad environment required a electronic circuit and this circuit was always on and drew enough power to deplete the battery overnight.  I could charge them up in the evening and the next morning they would be close to dead.
>>>> 
>>>> But I see these are Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries.  Ni-MH batteries have characteristics more similar to Lithium - at least with regards to the charging regime (I've designed a battery charger for Ni-MH so I am familiar with this) but are less susceptible to abuse.  I also see the bullet point about no self-discharge - which was my problem.  This is a $45 gamble (as it is with most no-name stuff from the Pacific rim) but YMMV.  This might be a good one.  Let us know.
>>>> 
>>>> BTW I bought a pair of Milwaukee 12V tools and never looked back.  I pitched all my Ni-Cad drills and recycled the batteries.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, June 24, 2025 at 01:36:47 PM CDT, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> <mailto:1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I have an old Bosch 24v miter saw that I would like to be able to continue using for quick, non critical cuts.  The only problem is that the NiCad batteries won?t hold a charge long enough to be useful. And, I don?t think there is a way to utilize other, e.g. Milwaukee M18, batteries in a 24v system.  Besides, there don?t appear to be any adaptors available.
>>>> 
>>>> So, that leaves me with two choices: rebuild my current batteries or buy new ones on Amazon.  I?ve taken one of the battery packs apart and can see that it just uses standard Sub C 1.2v batteries - 20 of them!  I?ve never rebuilt battery packs but it looks pretty straight forward; just time consuming.  20 Sub C batteries would run me about $40-50.  (Having it done professionally looks to cost at least twice that.)  Or, I could just buy a Chinese-made replacement pack for just a few bucks more.  (https://www.amazon.com/Exmate-Replacement-Battery-Compatible-BH-2424/dp/B073Z9QHXS/ref=sr_1_17).  
>>>> 
>>>> I?m sure the replacement batteries are also made in China, but is there any reason to assume that rebuilding the packs myself will result in a better, longer lasting battery?  Any advice from those who have done this before will be much appreciated.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>> 
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james.f.juhas at snet.net
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
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> 

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From fishplate at gmail.com  Wed Jul  2 12:31:37 2025
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:31:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a puzzle...

 tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or
is there something else I should try?

The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as
simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple
machine.

My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled
up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a
short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.

I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried
ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the
plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and
grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.

Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not
get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it
pushed against my finger with some force.

Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.

Put it all back together, and nothing.

Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.

So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under
cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one
was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine
indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.

In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.
But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.

So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil,
or is there something else I should try?
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From maynerdfamily at msn.com  Wed Jul  2 13:31:10 2025
From: maynerdfamily at msn.com (Brian and Wendy Warrick)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 19:31:10 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SA1PR84MB3895E2E2718C3E0D155A56ADBB40A@SA1PR84MB3895.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I would try a plug first. If it was wet, it may be fouled out and not sparking under compression.

Brian
Nampa, ID
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2025 12:31 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?

I've got a puzzle...

 tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?

The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machine.

My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.

I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.

Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it pushed against my finger with some force.

Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.

Put it all back together, and nothing.

Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.

So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.

In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.  But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.

So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?

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From bborgstede at charter.net  Wed Jul  2 13:32:19 2025
From: bborgstede at charter.net (Brian Borgstede)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:32:19 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D17420C-A615-4741-840F-4B7087CEE7D9@charter.net>

If it were an ordinary push mower, I would say flywheel key. Fairly common if you hit something and stop the engine suddenly. It might have a spark, but the timing would be off. Just a thought.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2025, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I've got a puzzle...
> 
>  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?
> 
> The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machine.
> 
> My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
> 
> I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.  
> 
> Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it pushed against my finger with some force.
> 
> Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.
> 
> Put it all back together, and nothing.  
> 
> Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.
> 
> So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.
> 
> In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.  But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.
> 
> So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bborgstede at charter.net
> 


From patintexas at icloud.com  Wed Jul  2 13:50:01 2025
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:50:01 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC4A5FD4-2A77-4CDA-AAB9-66C8DAAE24BD@icloud.com>

I?ve had similar in the past, check the flywheel key, mine had sheared & the ignition timing was off just enough. Cheap fix!

Peace, Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Jul 2, 2025, at 2:07?PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

?
I've got a puzzle...

 tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?

The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple machine.

My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.

I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.  

Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it pushed against my finger with some force.

Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.

Put it all back together, and nothing.  

Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.

So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.

In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.  But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.

So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or is there something else I should try?

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From parkanzky at gmail.com  Wed Jul  2 13:54:40 2025
From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 15:54:40 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <SA1PR84MB3895E2E2718C3E0D155A56ADBB40A@SA1PR84MB3895.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <SA1PR84MB3895E2E2718C3E0D155A56ADBB40A@SA1PR84MB3895.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAOEriimOLs4H80hL0BesVDh04YNkr3YeAMUuv2cM2NQNUwL3JQ@mail.gmail.com>

This could be timing. If the engine was stopped suddenly the key that holds
the flywheel position may have sheared and the magneto isn't firing at the
right time. So you see spark when you turn the motor but it might not be
when the air/fuel/compression are there.

-Paul

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 3:46?PM Brian and Wendy Warrick <
maynerdfamily at msn.com> wrote:

> I would try a plug first. If it was wet, it may be fouled out and not
> sparking under compression.
>
> Brian
> Nampa, ID
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jeff
> Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 2, 2025 12:31 PM
> *To:* shop-talk at autox.team.net <Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
>
> I've got a puzzle...
>
>  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or
> is there something else I should try?
>
> The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as
> simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple
> machine.
>
> My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled
> up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a
> short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
>
> I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried
> ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the
> plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and
> grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.
>
> Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not
> get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it
> pushed against my finger with some force.
>
> Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.
>
> Put it all back together, and nothing.
>
> Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.
>
> So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under
> cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one
> was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine
> indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.
>
> In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.
> But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.
>
> So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil,
> or is there something else I should try?
>
>
>
>
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Wed Jul  2 15:06:29 2025
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 17:06:29 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7COfR_F06nA1rKP_DefukQj5aYFpALoYzPBrQDtKAcTdQA@mail.gmail.com>

The flywheel key!  I didn't think of that - will check tomorrow.  Tehn new
plug, then coil.

You guys are the best!

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 2:31?PM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've got a puzzle...
>
>  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or
> is there something else I should try?
>
> The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as
> simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple
> machine.
>
> My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled
> up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a
> short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
>
> I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried
> ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the
> plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and
> grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.
>
> Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not
> get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it
> pushed against my finger with some force.
>
> Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.
>
> Put it all back together, and nothing.
>
> Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.
>
> So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under
> cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one
> was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine
> indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.
>
> In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.
> But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.
>
> So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil,
> or is there something else I should try?
>
>
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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Wed Jul  2 15:57:51 2025
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (Douglas Shook)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:57:51 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <3D17420C-A615-4741-840F-4B7087CEE7D9@charter.net>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <3D17420C-A615-4741-840F-4B7087CEE7D9@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgZEjET23bav3KZe2ishh9M0XyXmML82s7+qWf+5YVNhYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I second Brian's prognosis. Whenever something stops working suddenly, the
first place to look would be what has happened to it most recently. The
fence in the blade may have sheared the pin, but it should not have shorted
the coil or fouled the plug. The fact that the plug is wet, there is spark,
but it will not start all would indicate the timing is off from a
sheared pin, assuming that it has a pin. Some engines may not have one.

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 12:54?PM Brian Borgstede <bborgstede at charter.net>
wrote:

> If it were an ordinary push mower, I would say flywheel key. Fairly common
> if you hit something and stop the engine suddenly. It might have a spark,
> but the timing would be off. Just a thought.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 2, 2025, at 1:55 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > I've got a puzzle...
> >
> >  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil,
> or is there something else I should try?
> >
> > The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as
> simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple
> machine.
> >
> > My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute
> tangled up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.
> After a short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
> >
> > I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried
> ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the
> plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and
> grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.
> >
> > Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could
> not get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it
> pushed against my finger with some force.
> >
> > Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.
> >
> > Put it all back together, and nothing.
> >
> > Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.
> >
> > So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under
> cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one
> was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine
> indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.
> >
> > In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no
> qualms.  But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.
> >
> > So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the
> coil, or is there something else I should try?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bborgstede at charter.net
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
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From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Wed Jul  2 16:11:02 2025
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2025 18:11:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7COfR_F06nA1rKP_DefukQj5aYFpALoYzPBrQDtKAcTdQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7COfR_F06nA1rKP_DefukQj5aYFpALoYzPBrQDtKAcTdQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E25AB9B1-B231-4F1D-81E3-CA6BFD674849@groupwbench.org>



> On Jul 2, 2025, at 5:06 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The flywheel key!  I didn't think of that - will check tomorrow.  Tehn new plug, then coil. 
> 
> You guys are the best!  


Maybe wait until you find out if we were right :-)

jim

From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Fri Jul  4 20:52:11 2025
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (Douglas Shook)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2025 19:52:11 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Air couplings not releasing
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgYn2b_wamiTiJtsUc-pLvEzKRanviYD4QRATbXmjNS+Fg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I have been using 3/8" Tru-Flate (automotive) quick connects for all the
air hoses in my shop for decades.

I have a bunch of old brass female sleeve lock couplings that require you
to move the outer sleeve to connect and disconnect the plug. They are
working fine after decades of use.

I also have a bunch of newer plated steel Tru-flate ones that are
push-to-connect that are supposed to be more convenient, but they are
getting increasingly difficult to disconnect. I have one that I have to
remove all air pressure before it will release the plug.

I have purchased all of these from McMaster-Carr, they are genuine
Tru-Flate products.
I have tried lubricating them, but it does not seem to help.

I also have tried to find new Tru-Flate connectors without the
push-to-connect feature, but cannot locate them for 1/4" pipe and 3/8"
coupling.

Do any of you have experience with this problem? It is quite annoying when
you want to change a tool, as you might imagine.

I have seen some universal sleeve lock couplings that are supposed to work
with Tru-Flate plugs, but I have not seen them with 1/4" pipe and 3/8"
couplings.

I am attaching a link from McMaster:

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/couplings/tru-flate-quick-disconnect-hose-couplings-for-air/

Thank you in advance for any help or information you may have.

Best,

Doug
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From dirtbeard at live.com  Fri Jul  4 21:05:55 2025
From: dirtbeard at live.com (Old Dirtbeard)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2025 03:05:55 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Air couplings will not release
Message-ID: <DM4PR12MB5118619B1A6E03C65E8994D7D84DA@DM4PR12MB5118.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Hi guys,

I have been using 3/8" Tru-Flate (automotive) quick connects for all the air hoses in my shop for decades.

I have a bunch of old brass female sleeve lock couplings that require you to move the outer sleeve to connect and disconnect the plug. They are working fine after decades of use.

I also have a bunch of newer plated steel Tru-flate ones that are push-to-connect that are supposed to be more convenient, but they are getting increasingly difficult to disconnect. I have one that I have to remove all air pressure before it will release the plug.

I have purchased all of these from McMaster-Carr, they are genuine Tru-Flate products.
I have tried lubricating them, but it does not seem to help.

I also have tried to find new Tru-Flate connectors without the push-to-connect feature, but cannot locate them for 1/4" pipe and 3/8" coupling.

Do any of you have experience with this problem? It is quite annoying when you want to change a tool, as you might imagine.

I have seen some universal sleeve lock couplings that are supposed to work with Tru-Flate plugs, but I have not seen them with 1/4" pipe and 3/8" couplings.

I am attaching a link from McMaster:

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/couplings/tru-flate-quick-disconnect-hose-couplings-for-air/

Thank you in advance for any help or information you may have.

Best,

Doug

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From bspidell at comcast.net  Sat Jul  5 07:28:41 2025
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2025 06:28:41 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Air couplings not releasing
In-Reply-To: <CAG1pxgYn2b_wamiTiJtsUc-pLvEzKRanviYD4QRATbXmjNS+Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG1pxgYn2b_wamiTiJtsUc-pLvEzKRanviYD4QRATbXmjNS+Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8910a7cc-744f-4bdc-9d81-60cb9e3bdcb7@comcast.net>

I think these issues are universal. I have a bunch of these in 1/4" and 
3/8" pipe size; most are brass from Harbor Freight--automotive style are 
getting harder to find--but some are steel from various brands and all 
do the same thing to some extent. I think it's partly due to wear but 
might be due to just plain shitty manufacturing and specs. If I 
remember, I try to make/break connections before I turn the air from the 
compressor on; it's easier. Maybe the 'industrial' type work better?

FWIW, I have a couple tractors with similar type of quick connects for 
hydraulic lines, except larger pipe size and are designed to break away 
if you start moving before disconnecting. I bought some cheap 
sockets--made in you-know-where--and one of them is now failing to hold 
connection (though the lines are shot and I need to try new before I 
totally blame the connector).

Bob

On 7/4/2025 7:52 PM, Douglas Shook wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I have been using 3/8" Tru-Flate?(automotive) quick connects for all 
> the air hoses in my shop for?decades.
>
> I have a bunch of old brass female sleeve lock couplings that require 
> you to move the outer sleeve to connect and disconnect the plug. They 
> are working fine after decades of use.
>
> I also have a bunch of newer plated steel Tru-flate ones that are 
> push-to-connect that are supposed to be more convenient, but they are 
> getting increasingly difficult to disconnect. I have one that I have 
> to remove all air pressure before it will release the plug.
>
> I have purchased all of these from McMaster-Carr, they are genuine 
> Tru-Flate products.
> I have tried lubricating them, but it does not seem to help.
>
> I also have tried to find new Tru-Flate connectors without the 
> push-to-connect feature, but cannot locate them for 1/4" pipe and 3/8" 
> coupling.
>
> Do any of you have experience with this problem? It is quite annoying 
> when you want to change a tool, as you might imagine.
>
> I have seen some universal sleeve lock couplings that are supposed to 
> work with Tru-Flate plugs, but I have not seen them with 1/4" pipe and 
> 3/8" couplings.
>
> I am attaching a link from McMaster:
>
> https://www.mcmaster.com/products/couplings/tru-flate-quick-disconnect-hose-couplings-for-air/
>
> Thank you in advance for any help or information you may have.
>
> Best,
>
> Doug
>
>
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Sun Jul  6 04:59:39 2025
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 06:59:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] It's A Simple Machine, Right?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CO28uMFK_qVdDwZ-OBk=87gcF1_c=qreESced_OnJtt5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPJEZQ4sFtZZr8w0mTnp4GZMTkQ6ap2tSyPvDO5U8HtuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Update:  On Thursday, we tried a new plug - no start.  Pulled the flywheel
bolt and inspected the key - perfect alignment (did not remove the flywheel
to visually inspect the key itself).

New coil on the way - interestingly, direct from Briggs & Stratton was
cheaper than buying a B&S-labeled part from Amazon, and presumably has a
far better chance of being both the correct part and not counterfeit.


The saga continues...

On Wed, Jul 2, 2025, 14:31 Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've got a puzzle...
>
>  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil, or
> is there something else I should try?
>
> The patient is a Snapper rear-engine riding mower, a machine that's as
> simple as can be.  Powered by a B&S Intek 12.5 HP engine, another simple
> machine.
>
> My friend was cutting his grass and managed to get the grass chute tangled
> up in some old fencing.  He got it loose, and continued to mow.  After a
> short distance, the mower quit running and would not restart.
>
> I brought it into my shop and we started troubleshooting. I first tried
> ether - it seemed like it tried for a second, and then nothing.  Pulled the
> plug and it looked wet.  Turned the engine over with the plug connected and
> grounded, and observed a spark.  Not a magnificent spark, but a spark.
>
> Verified compression, but due to the position of the muffler, I could not
> get *any* of my compression testers to seal in the hole well.  But it
> pushed against my finger with some force.
>
> Moved to the carb.  Pulled and inspected.  Float working, jet clear.
>
> Put it all back together, and nothing.
>
> Pulled the ground wire off the magneto coil and no change.
>
> So, I'm thinking weak coil.  Not completely dead, but not working under
> cylinder pressure.  Something else I read suggested a bad plug - this one
> was installed a month ago and has been working.  Date code on the engine
> indicates it was built on April Fools Day, 2008.
>
> In the era of $15 lawn mower coils, I would throw one on with no qualms.
> But at $40 or $50, I hesitate.
>
> So,  tl;dr - should I try the plug first, skip ahead and replace the coil,
> or is there something else I should try?
>
>
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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Sun Jul  6 06:43:47 2025
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (Douglas Shook)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 05:43:47 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Air couplings not releasing
In-Reply-To: <8910a7cc-744f-4bdc-9d81-60cb9e3bdcb7@comcast.net>
References: <CAG1pxgYn2b_wamiTiJtsUc-pLvEzKRanviYD4QRATbXmjNS+Fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <8910a7cc-744f-4bdc-9d81-60cb9e3bdcb7@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgbmdjhDK8xfYB0uD7RchmhfHEqpZL4E7-UyzHuOJ1Q=2w@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Bob.

For these I believe the problem may have been the combination of tight
tolerances and oxidation on the plugs. After putting the plugs on the wire
wheel and "shining them up" they seem to be working OK again (I also had
lubed the sockets previously but that did not seem to make a difference).
We will see if the "solution" lasts for a while.

At least now I can disconnect them and change tools without blowing all of
the pressure out of the lines first, which is a great improvement to say
the least. ;-)

On Sat, Jul 5, 2025 at 6:36?PM Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

> I think these issues are universal. I have a bunch of these in 1/4" and
> 3/8" pipe size; most are brass from Harbor Freight--automotive style are
> getting harder to find--but some are steel from various brands and all do
> the same thing to some extent. I think it's partly due to wear but might be
> due to just plain shitty manufacturing and specs. If I remember, I try to
> make/break connections before I turn the air from the compressor on; it's
> easier. Maybe the 'industrial' type work better?
>
> FWIW, I have a couple tractors with similar type of quick connects for
> hydraulic lines, except larger pipe size and are designed to break away if
> you start moving before disconnecting. I bought some cheap sockets--made in
> you-know-where--and one of them is now failing to hold connection (though
> the lines are shot and I need to try new before I totally blame the
> connector).
>
> Bob
>
> On 7/4/2025 7:52 PM, Douglas Shook wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I have been using 3/8" Tru-Flate (automotive) quick connects for all the
> air hoses in my shop for decades.
>
> I have a bunch of old brass female sleeve lock couplings that require you
> to move the outer sleeve to connect and disconnect the plug. They are
> working fine after decades of use.
>
> I also have a bunch of newer plated steel Tru-flate ones that are
> push-to-connect that are supposed to be more convenient, but they are
> getting increasingly difficult to disconnect. I have one that I have to
> remove all air pressure before it will release the plug.
>
> I have purchased all of these from McMaster-Carr, they are genuine
> Tru-Flate products.
> I have tried lubricating them, but it does not seem to help.
>
> I also have tried to find new Tru-Flate connectors without the
> push-to-connect feature, but cannot locate them for 1/4" pipe and 3/8"
> coupling.
>
> Do any of you have experience with this problem? It is quite annoying when
> you want to change a tool, as you might imagine.
>
> I have seen some universal sleeve lock couplings that are supposed to work
> with Tru-Flate plugs, but I have not seen them with 1/4" pipe and 3/8"
> couplings.
>
> I am attaching a link from McMaster:
>
>
> https://www.mcmaster.com/products/couplings/tru-flate-quick-disconnect-hose-couplings-for-air/
>
> Thank you in advance for any help or information you may have.
>
> Best,
>
> Doug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
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