[Shotimes] Which MAF is best?

Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:33:36 -0500

'89s respond well, also. I suspect it's because the BOS with the LPM was
developed on Vadim's '89 (only one EEC box was used in '89). Problems seem
to be in the middle years, when EEC calibrations were bouncing around a bit.

OTOH, Mallinson's '89 never responded to any chip or LPM, but his EEC box
was replaced, and it was the new box that didn't like chips.

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of James White
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:17 PM
To: Timothy Tyner; shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Re: [Shotimes] Which MAF is best?

I guess that it just must be the '94-5's that respond to the LPM plus the
Ford 80mm MAF.

Don McKinnon and myself both have run the same set-up and when I compared my
20-70  second gear times to Don's they were similar.

I had to take the LPM and 80mm MAF out to pass our tight emissions test and
after passing, my "but dyno" was disapointed with the stock 55mm MAF, so I
went back to the 80 and LPM.

I am guessing, but after seeing a lot of conversation on these lists, and
talking to a number of SHO owners, I think that the best combination would
be:

A) 3.2L block
B) 3.0L heads
C) 3.0L cams (or maybe stage I cams)
D) big bore intake - extrude honed
E) matched intake and exhaust ports
F) 80mm MAF (either Ford or another)
G) a custom programmed chip (LPM or another?)
I) Hi flow "Y" pipe (PP or SHO Shop?)
J) What else?

Should be good for 300-320 motor HP?

But how long would this combination be good for before something like the
rod bearings go to lunch?  20k? 50k? 100k?

Jim White - greensho@crown.net
Valparaiso, Indiana
'93  5 SPEED   275k few mods
'95  5 SPEED   226k lots of mods
"double clutch"  it's good for both you and your SHO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Tyner" <shospeed@bigplanet.com>
To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 6:59 PM
Subject: Fw: Re: [Shotimes] Which MAF is best?

> Well then, here is the challenge I lay down to all SHO owners since it
seems
> I am the only one confident in the FORD 80mm and the LPM.  Show me a
> timeslip from a car with a 55mm or any ProFlow unit and no LPM with a much
> better 1/4 than a 14.5 and I will retract all I say about the LPM and 80mm
> MAF (on a full weight NA car of course).  I find it hard to believe that
my
> car is the ONLY one having success with an LPM and FORD 80mm.
>
> Toolman
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Darin Lind
> Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 6:36:52 PM
> To: Shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Which MAF is best?
>
> I agree with ya there Ian. I ran an LPM program specifically for my
nitrous
> (less timing, more fuel) on my 90 SHO and what happened, but 4 melted
plugs
> due to pre-ignition on the first run. Went back to stock computer and
things
> were
> better. It's a crap shoot just like you said.
>
> And regarding MAFs and bolt-on mods, LPMs are pretty much a waste too
> for WOT power, you only risk losing power. The SHO is already optimally
> tuned
> @WOT from the factory - fuel, timing, etc. Vadim @ SHO Shop has even said
> this.
> Several years ago they made a posting where they took a stock 5-spd SHO,
an
> expensive
> MOTEC and a dyno for tuning, and the best they could muster was 1 measly
HP
> over stock,
> by actually LEANING out the fuel curve. And there is no need for an LPM
> with any bolt-on
> mods, that's what the MAF is for. It detects the additional airflow and
you
> get more fuel from the
> factory program accordingly.
>
> I once brought my SHO to Don Mallinson's old dynojet, and we got the
> following:
>
> stock 55mm = 197hp
> ford 80mm + LPM = 195hp
> ford 80mm + stock program = 200hp
> Don's Pro-M 77mm + stock program = 201-202hp.
>
> The 80mm has a different voltage curve, so the air/fuel ratio should not
be
> optimal,
> yet with the 'required' LPM 'correction' it ran slower. That is pretty
> sorry. I tried another
> LPM program with the same result. I've heard similar results from 80mm MAF
> owners.
> So I think it's a bad idea to get a MAF that relies on an LPM, get one of
> the Pro-M models...
> unless you want to spend some bucks to custom tune it - to probably get
back
> to the same
> power levels as you would get with the Pro-M + stock computer.
>
> Darin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ianf@eden.rutgers.edu>
> To: "Timothy Tyner" <shospeed@bigplanet.com>
> Cc: <Shotimes@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:43 PM
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Which MAF is best?
>
>
> > I am not sure which turbo SHO that you are referring to. There is one
> > that is well known (Jeremy Prine's) and then there are a few other
> > project cars out there as well. If I recall correctly, Jeremy has been
> > trough a lot of LPM reburns, dyno time and at least one engine. Quarter
> > mile times have nothing to do with safe A/F mixtures, reliabilty via
> > tuning and other factors such as drivability, etc. I believe this all
> > started because I stated that there might be a connection between poor
> > LPM tuning and spun rod bearings due to detonation. I still maintain my
> > views that LPM programming is too much of a crap shoot for the average
> > SHO owner who is looking for a plug and play answer to unleash hidden
> > horsepower.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> >
> > > When turbo'd SHO's are running 13.1's with only an LPM for tuning (for
> > > years), and when my NA 95 runs 14.5's with only an LPM for tuning
> > (for three
> > > years and 50k miles, first and only burn), I can not see the need for
> > the
> > > Apexi (which is much more than $300 last I checked). Not saying one
> > is not
> > > in my future, just that the LPM can do wonders if the guy knows what
> > he is
> > > doing. I am surely not going to remove an LPM to replace it with an
> > Apexi,
> > > but if I was starting from ground up, I would consider one.
> > >
> > > Toolman
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