[Shotimes] Another loss for Ford.

[Ron Nottingham]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Tatro" <stevetatro_shotimes@att.net>


> You complain that the Focus SVT is "too small..." yet you praise GM for
> still offering a Z24?  You can't be serious!?

I should have made it more clear: too small for me.  The Cavalier is too
small in that regards.  This coming from a guy that spent 2 months with an
E30 M3 :-) but at least it was rear drive.


> Is there really any reason to be excited about a Grand Am, even if it
> does have Ram Air?  What's that add, about 5 hp?
>
> If Ford offered a Taurus with a special "Ram Air" system that didn't
> really even "ram" any "air", would that be better?  No, it would be
> stupid.

I give points for trying.

> The CTS is "good" even though it (performance wise) is *almost* equal to
> the SHO from 14 years ago?  Whatever!  Or should it be praised because
> it has a snazzy (albeit cheap) interior?

It is rear drive, and it is the right size, something that Ford does not
have.  I wouldn't buy one though.

> Oh, and you knock the LS saying it's "more lux than sport" yet you seem
> to think it's dandy that GM offers a s/c Buick?!  Is the s/c Regal, or
> GTP, or any other GM plasticar available with a manual?  Hmm.

Price an LS lately?  I can think of few sedans that outperform the LS for
allot less.  My point was GM, even Chrysler, is getting the point about
mid-size performance sedans.  Seriously, what does Ford offer below $30k in
a performance sedan?  Infiniti raised the bar with the G35, it isn't
perfect, but neither is the SHO.  I do give points for trying, even though
GM's "plastic cars" aren't perfect.  Even the non-performance GM sedans
(Impala) feel better than the current Taurus, have a better (not by much)
sport "feel" to them.  Outside of the one Chevy I bought in 89, I have
always had Fords, half of my clothes say "Ford" or are "Ford" related.  I
didn't buy a SHO because it was just a fast 4-door, most of that decision
was based on the fact that it had a Blue Oval planted on it.  The new V6
Accord is nice and sporty, but yet I don't want one, for the simple fact
that I do not care for Hondas.  I do give Honda credit, though, for
producing a "sport" sedan.

> Now, I'm not saying I'm happy with what Ford is currently offering.  I
> want a Taurus, with a brand new Yamaha engine, with good cams.  And not
> the current Taurus body, something that looks good and doesn't appear to
> be a water vessel.  But none of this makes it okay to pretend that GM or
> DC offer anything worth buying!

At least GM is offering "something" with performance in the mid-size arena.
Nissan almost went belly-up when it abandoned it's core market (sporty), and
went with sedans only (the Max SE couldn't carry the performance torch).
When Nissan got it together, realized the marketing they have done for past
few decades, and started producing vehicles that suited their marketing
strategy, did things turn around and get back into the black.

Ford needs to do the same.  They need to put the "First On Race Day" back
into their vocabulary.  "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" only goes so far,
and when you don't have anything that public wants to buy, you can't do any
"selling on monday".  If Ford wants to get my money, they need to produce a
nice sports sedan, a little larger than the Contour but smaller than the
current Taurus (hey, that sounds like the original Taurus), enough hp and
torque to be in the current league (currently 250+hp), a manual, and under
$30k.  It doesn't have to have a Yamaha engine (although, they are SWEET).
Rear drive would be nice, but Honda has proved that a good FWD setup can
handle pretty good.

As bad (or good, depending upon your opinion) as the GM sedans may be, they
still offer something that Ford does not: performance.  GM is upping the
ante in the next couple of years, like a V8 Grand Prix (still front drive,
though) with around 300hp.  Does Ford have anything in the pipeline to
compete?  Ford's front drive transaxles aren't the best in the biz, and GM
does have experience with the Caddy Northstar.

I guess I'm being a little too honest about Ford, but take off the rose
colored glasses and look around.

Ron N. - Dalton, GA
90 SHO

> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
>
>
> > Getting Bondurant's business is a great marketing coup. Plus, they may
> even
> > be building decontented Z06s for Bondurant to get the price down,
> > since
> they
> > modify their cars a bit anyway.
> >
> > Ford really isn't doing too badly on the performance front, they just
> aren't
> > producing the kind of car that we want (MTX sport sedan). The current
> > list isn't bad:
> >
> > Mustang GT
> > Cobra
>
> Both the above SHOULD have performance...
>
> > Lightning
>
> yawn, can't the whole family in one.
>
> > SVT Focus
>
> too small...
>
> > Marauder
>
> nice, but it is pricey, and a bit heavy...
>
> > LS
>
> more lux than sport...
>
> > Then the GT40 will be showing up one of these days.
>
> Can you afford one?
>
> > You say that "Ford has lost the performance edge it once had over the
> other
> > domestic makes"? Other than the Viper and Corvette, there isn't a lot
> > out there. Yes, new models are being promised (new GTO, V8 CTS, hipo
> > Neon),
> but
> > other than the s/c Pontiacs, the cupboard is pretty bare.
> >
>
> At least GM is offering a performance sedan.  The s/c Pontiacs are nice,
> even the Ram Air Grand Am is OK, the CTS (even though it is ugly in my
> eyes) is good, Buick even has some s/c sedans (or did a year ago), and
> Cavalier Z24's offered good punch for the money.  The new Stratus coupe
> and sedan are very nice, and offer more sport than Ford offers
> currently.  Outside of anything SVT, what does Ford have (and Mustangs
> don't count, since they should have performance anyway)?  LS and
> Marauder?  bah.  60-year old men are driving Marauders around here.
> Both of these are more luxury oriented than sport.  If I don't want a
> Focus, a Mustang, a pickup truck, or spending more than $30k, what
> choice do I have from Ford?  Let's look in Ford's mid-size cabinet:
> hmmm, pretty bare, oh wait, there's the new Mazda 6, but not really my
> cup of tea, as it doesn't have the Blue Oval.
>
> I'm not looking for a 300hp mid-size for under $30k (ok, if I were, I
> know of several that approach that 300hp mark and cost under $30k), but
> if Ford offered one, I would buy it.  But they don't.
>
> Ford's lost it.  I hope they get it back, but if they don't, there are a
> ton of fine cars out there that has the potential to get my money.
>
> Ron N. - Dalton, GA
> 90 SHO
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Nottingham
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:01 AM
> > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Another loss for Ford.
> >
> >
> > Maybe so, but I don't see GM giving too much discount on the Z06.
> > Around here, Z06's don't stay on the lot for only a couple days.
> >
> > Just goes to show that Ford has lost the performance edge it once had
> > over the other domestic makes.  Aside from the Cobra, Jags, and A-M, I
>
> > view
> Ford
> > as maker of stodgy cars now, something akin to Toyota, but without the
> high
> > quality :-)  Ford used to have a multitude of go fast cars outside of
> > Mustangs, including the Turbo/SC T-Birds, XR4Ti's, SHO's, Escort GT's
> (with
> > the Mazda engine), just to name a few.  Now, what does Ford have?
> > T-Birds with more lux than sport, Focus ZX3's that are nowhere near as
>
> > quick as competitors (well, even the Civic Si has fallen in
> > performance), and what
> do
> > they have in a roomy, go fast, 4-door?  The MazdaSpeed Protege is
> > nice,
> even
> > though Ford owns controlling stake in Mazda, it still doesn't have the
> Blue
> > Oval.
> >
> > I think my SHO will be the last Ford in my stable, unless I get a
> > Mustang. I may do just as Bonderant has done... sigh...
> >
> > Ron N. - Dalton, GA
> > 90 SHO
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
> >
> >
> > > He may have put it out for bid, and GM offered the better deal.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > >
> > > Ford must have really p!ssed off Bonderant, as he has always been an
> avid
> > > Ford supporter.  Wonder why he didn't get the new Cobras?  Almost
> > > half
> > price
> > > of the Z06, and power to match.  Well, it is couple tenths slower
> > > than
> the
> > > Z06...
> > >
> > > I can see the CTS deal, as they are rear drive, and seat four, Ford
> > > currently has nothing to compare with it.  I don't think the LS
> > > comes
> > close
> > > to the CTS.
> > >
> > > As for the SHO's, I think he already got rid of those.
> > >
> > > Ron N. - Dalton, GA
> > > 90 SHO
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Frank Costa" <fcosta@comcast.net>
> > >
> > >
> > > > Does the bondurant school have any shos, currently?
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dave Kegel" <d.kegel@attbi.com>
> > > >
> > > > > Just read in the latest Autoweek that Bondurant has signed a
> > > > > four
> year
> > > > > deal with GM to be the official supplier of cars for the school.
>
> > > > > 26 CTSs, 16 Vettes, and four Z06s.