[Shotimes] Re: OT: Pontiac Fiero or is it Firero? :)

[Bill Murray]

Also the GN and the Sy/Ty were all faster compared to the same year
vettes.  Ron N. you always seem to be the fountain of knowledge when it
comes to other cars discussed on the list.  You can't possibly be
getting all this detailed info off the top of your head.  I don't mean
to flame you or anything, but it bothers me and a few others I've talked
to that you speak of these cars like you know everything about them.  If
you're going to give all this info and speak like you have first hand
knowledge of all of this, how about giving your sources.  I know some of
us might be interested in reading and learning more about some of the
cars that come up in discussion.

Bill Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Porter
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 2:36 PM
To: SHOtimes Mailing List
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Re: OT: Pontiac Fiero or is it Firero? :)

Ron, Ron, Ron.........you are spending too much time sniffing whatever
the
Fiero "conspiracy detectives" on the Fiero lists are sniffing!!!  ;-)

None of this "conspiracy" crap was ever true. Fieros weren't
selling........they cost GM too much to build.....therefore car gets
axed.....PERIOD.

Chevy never really cared whether cars were quicker than the
Vette.....the
Corvette buyers will buy the damn thing anyway. In the late '70s, the
new
Z28 was as quick, if not quicker than the same-year Corvette. And,
during
that time, the 400ci T/A Trans Am was quicker than both of them. The 455
Super Duty T/As of the mid-70s were quicker than the same-year
Corvettes,
also. The mfrs want to sell what makes money. One of the biggest secrets
in
the auto world is whether the Corvette EVER made money for GM.

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Nottingham
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:52 AM
To: SHOtimes Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Re: OT: Pontiac Fiero or is it Firero? :)


First off, no stock Fiero was ever faster/quicker/better handling than
the
same year stock Corvette.

Second, yes, Chevrolet, in a way, did kill the Fiero.  There were
several
engines that were planned to go into the Fiero, but never made it due to
the
fact that the Fiero's performance would have equaled, bettered, or come
close to the Corvette for WAY less money.  One engine that was
considered
was an all-aluminum 2.9L V6 (no relation to the 60-degree Chevy V6) with
twin turbos.  The Fiero with this powerplant was considerably faster and
handled much better than the Corvette.  Remember, this was 1984, and the
C4
was all new, Chevy couldn't have it's 30 year old sportscar nameplate
humiliated by a new upstart.  Twin turbos were canned, but even the
normally
aspirated version was just as quick as the 'Vette, and still handled
much
better.  This engine was sadly scrapped.  The next engine scheduled for
the
Fiero was the 1.8L SOHC I4 Turbo (as seen in the Sunbird GT, Olds
Firenza,
and I think Buick's iteration of the J-body).  This engine gave the
Fiero
performance very close to the Corvette, for WAY less money.  The last
engine
was the 2.8L Chevy 60-degree V6 with cast iron block and aluminum heads.
This engine made the Fiero slow enough that it wouldn't embarass the
'Vette,
and with the extra weight, it wouldn't out-handle the 'Vette either.
The
2.5L I4 "Tech-IV" or "Iron Duke" was always going to be the base engine.

Since the HO version of the 2.8L V6 wouldn't be ready for full
production
until the '85 model year, the only version of the Fiero for it's debut
year
would be the 4-cylinder.  This really did more to hurt the Fiero's sales
than anything.  Extreme sporty looks, but econocar performance.  Then
the
fire fiasco (which only affected the 4-cylinders and not the V6 models)
gave
the Fiero a bad name.  The original Fiero suspension wasn't the best
sounding on paper, and was used to get the car to market quickly and at
a
cheap price.  The Fiero used a modified Chevette front suspension up
front,
and a modified Citation X-11 in the rear.

As far as horsepower, the 85 V6 model had 135hp, where as other GM's
used a
125hp version. 86, 87 and 88 used a 140hp version of the engine, but the
most hp other GM cars got was 135hp in 88, most were still the 125hp or
130hp version.  The 5-speed wasn't available with the V6 until '87, 85
and
86 got by with 4-speeds.

By the time the 88 Fiero came around with it's much improved suspension,
GM
decided that there was not enough profit in a 30k-40k a year vehicle
(first
year sales were above 100,000, but kept getting lower every year).  Even
though "Chevy Brass" didn't kill the car after the 88 model year, they
did
have a big hand in the whole deal.  Who knows, if the Fiero would have
had
one of the original scheduled V6's or even the turbo-4 it's first year,
maybe we would still have a Fiero, or maybe it would have lasted a
little
longer than it did.  It's all speculation, though.

OK, the 350Z hasn't died...  It's sales are better than Nissan had
hoped.
Now, what killed the RX7, MR2, and 300ZX (Supra, Stealth, and 3000GT
came
later) in the 95/96 model years were several things.  One was a weak
dollar
and a strong yen.  Another was OBD-II and stronger emissions regs in 96
(the
RX7 could not meet emissions).  The 300ZX could not meet Federal side
impact
standards for the 97 model year.  The Supra stayed until '98 and the
3000GT
until '99 (I think the Stealth died around 96/97).  The redesigned
Eclipse
was supposed to be a replacement for both the turbo Eclipse and the
3000GT
(hence the V6 in the new Eclipse).  The Supra was killed by higher
prices
each year.

DOH! didn't mean to write a book :-)

Ron N. - Dalton, GA
90 SHO
89 325i
"It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile" 

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