[Shotimes] Re: Baghdad has fallen bad america?!

[Floyd E. Vasquez]

this is my 1 and only post to the list on this subject.
-----------------------------
Steve,

    I think its fair to say that since everyone on this list is lucky enough
to be able to spend time and money on our SHOs, and have the technology and
wherewithal to participate on this list, etc., is or should be thankful for
a number of things, including being an American or living in the United
States.  Just last weekend, my wife and I had friends over and we BBQ'd some
giant Rib Eyes and corn on the cob, plenty of cold ones and so much to be
thankful for. Meanwhile, over in Iraq, moms and dads, uncles and aunts and
children were eating 10,000 made in the USA cruise missiles and wiping
mommy's brains from their faces.  Some of us may have been watching TV as
smug millionaire anchormen oooh and ahhhed over military hardware and male
reporters stood extra straight and took on military affectations while
talking with former generals.   Ted Koppel looks like he's been popping
viagra like peanuts and is speaking like the guy who does all the voice
overs on the Navy Seal programs on the Discovery channel.

    As I think most of us know, the defense industry is a for-profit
business.  Tomahawk missiles are over a million each.  Let's just say this
is going to be a good year for people who make bombs.  They all make great
money (we have lots of 'em here in NM) and you can bet they are receive
incredible benefits.  And the top level executives and campaign
contributors?  We're talking some of the wealthiest people in the U.S.  Oh
yeah, by coincidence US oil interests and companies like Halliburton will
make a killing.

And the troops?  250,000 of them are waiting six-months or more to see a
doctor.  Read all about it here:
http://www.pva.org/independentbudget/index.htm

You think the military is behind this war?  Read this:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/remembernuremburg.htm

How about Bush's connections to the middle east?    Try this:
http://tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7310

I think Americans are great people.  But many are misinformed because the
people who provide us our news are in the business of making money.  You
don't have to be an intellectual to realize that maximizing profits does not
go hand and hand with telling secrets.  Read this:
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020107&s=miller

And lastly, if anyone thinks we did this to bring democracy to Iraq.. ask
yourself why there's no democracy in Saudi Arabia, nor Jordan, nor Egypt.

God bless America, the America of Liberty and Justice for All.  People not
Profits.

okay, thats it.  no more.  please reply off list.
floyd



----- Original Message -----
From: <IdriveaSHO@aol.com>
To: <shospeed@bigplanet.com>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: [Shotimes] Re: Baghdad has fallen bad america?!


> Toolman~ You make it sound like you aren't proud to be an American(I'm
sure
> you are, hopefully I just read it wrong or something).  As far as I know
the
> only person who was ever perfect was Jesus(if you believe in him) and
since
> then nobody has been perfect. Back when indians were being killed they
were
> considered inferior by the people(bigots) that came here. The indians
didn't
> want us here and they killed americans/british and neither of them wanted
the
> indians here so they killed the indians. A mostly forgoten fact is that
the
> Indians learned to scalp from the british, who were that ruthless back
then
> to actually scalp people. Also the african slaves were considered
inferior,
> property, and "sub human" but don't forget that the african tribal leaders
> were the ones selling those slaves to anyone that would buy them(basically
> tribes capturing people of another tribe and selling them). It wasn't just
> the "horrible americans" who had blood on their hands for that. Last I
> checked though none of the people I know have had slaves or fought with
> indians and it would seem our country has learned from our mistakes as I
> don't know of anyone who wants to go kill indians(or anyone else for that
> matter) for territory or own a slave(although a robot that cooked and did
> dishes would be nice). We have a military full of white/black/red/yellow
> people all fighting for our country and for us because they love THEIR
> country and want to help keep us, our families, and the rest of the world
> free to be who we want, pray to who we want, and have the ability to say
what
> we want. To say we are something less because of a history of fighting and
> blood that our very distant ancestors had done and we had quit doing and
> learned from is dumb. We now see why being intolerant of someone because
of
> race or religion is a stupid thing, that's why we're over there helping
the
> Sunnis, Shites, Muslims etc to be free. Regan going against what alot of
> people(americans and others) and building up arms in the cold war and the
SDI
> programs is what made the Berlin wall come down and get Germany to be a
> respectable country. We also liberated France in WWII. Now both of them,
> thanks to the USA have the right and freedom to disagree with us. Also I
> don't think anyone is trying to portray us as "some peace loving, all
good,
> based on Christian values" country as you said. We started a war because
> Saddam wouldn't listen to diplomacy. Obviously Hitler and the Japanese
> Emperor were not going to listen to talking either. If you look back, this
> country has had war for most of its life, I can count 10 wars since this
> country was founded without any trouble and I know there are more. As for
> being based on Christian values, as a Christian I have to say that you'll
> find that Christian values are pretty much the same as values of most
> religions(and vice versa). Honor thy father and mother, do unto others as
you
> would have done unto you, etc etc etc. Not exactly stuff that someone
should
> be judged harshly for, those are all things you should do if you are
> religious or not. This country was founded for religious freedom, that's
why
> you have Islam, Christianity, Judism(sp?), Catholicism, Mormanism, etc
etc.
> Taking this time to compare the US to hitler or Saddam is just plain
stupid.
> Yes there has been alot of killing in the past, we had a civil war for
crying
> out loud, how can that be seen as anything but a failure of communication?
It
> did help make the country better though(unless you ask someone from South
> Carolina  j/k) but just like Rome having the last of the gladiator fights
the
> US has learned from history(ours and others) and I don't think we'd ever
try
> and oppress any race or religion, and I don't think we'd try and start any
> imoral wars either. Maybe I read to much into that email, if so feel free
to
> let me know. It just struck me wrong though. To everyone, including the
> previous sender, have a great day and be happy to be living in the
greatest
> country on the face of the planet where you have the right to say and do
> whatever you want so long as it doesn't cause a danger(physicaly or
> financially) to others(pretty much true). God Bless America -Steve Bowen
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