[Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
Mark Kelley
mkelley1@gt.rr.com
Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:03:16 -0500
Actually it isn't an issue at all. It just some fun "what if" speculation.
You seem to get bent all out shape when these kinds of topics come up. Why
don't you lighten up a little. Maybe you wouldn't be "pissing off the
SHOtimes masses" (again!!).
Mark
PS: I bought MY SHO new and very soon my spending range for a new car will
be in the $30K range. Someone will be getting my money!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Porter [mailto:ronporter@prodigy.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 9:45 PM
> To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
>
>
> It isn't an engine issue. Who would buy one? Relying on the enthusiast
> market is a loser, unless you can sell a LOT of cars, or sell
> less and price
> them high. I see Ford doing neither.
>
> At the risk of (again!!) pissing off the SHOtimes masses....when these
> topics come up, I ask the simple questions about (1) how many
> people on this
> list bought their SHOs new, and (2) how many people would buy a car like
> this new?......and not "in 5 years when I win the Lotto".......but within
> the next few months if it were available.
>
> This is the point, Talk is cheap, dollars need to be put on the table. I
> don't see Ford spending any time worrying about building/importing another
> high-performance sedan They are all over the news here in Detroit about
> their cost-cutting efforts. They will only be worrying about building
> vehicles that they can sell hundreds of thousands of.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Mark Kelley
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 5:17 PM
> To: Ron Porter; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
>
>
> Here's a direct quote from Car and Driver:
>
> "Just one engine is available in the Aviator, a retuned version of the
> aluminum 4.6-liter DOHC 32-valve V-8 that's sold in the Mustang Mach 1"
>
> What am I getting at? The question was whether Ford could use an existing
> engine (such as the Lightning or Cobra engine) if they imported the Falcon
> instead of the Aussie 5.4. My point is there are plenty of available V8s
> comparable to the Aussie 5.4 that would only need re-certification for
> Falcon (i.e. what GM did with the GTO/LS1). Ford has the same V8
> in use in
> several platforms so re-certification obviously isn't that big of a deal.
> Whether it would be a cheap RWD sedan, I can't answer that. The
> Falcon XR8
> sells for the equivalent of $30K USD. To me, that sounds like a
> bargain but
> I don't know what the cost would be to import it.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:56 AM
> > To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> >
> >
> > IIRC, the Mach 1 is the standard GT motor with about 5 more
> > HP......not the
> > 302 HP DOHC motor.
> >
> > Anyway, Ford doesn't have anything else to put the DOHC 302 HP
> 4.6 in to.
> > Not really sure what you are getting at. There is not a platform
> > for a cheap
> > RWD sports sedan in Ford's stable. They have the LS, S-type, etc
> > for the GT
> > category with the nice 4.0 V8.
> >
> > Ron Porter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Kelley [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:49 PM
> > To: SHOtimes (Team.net); Ron Porter
> > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> >
> >
> > OK, Ron...how about the LS1? It's been used in the Camaro,
> Firebird, and
> > the GTO. How about the 302HP 4.6L 32V V8 in the Mustang Mach
> I, Marauder,
> > and Lincoln Aviator? It's been done before...it can be done again.
> >
> > As for the GT 5.4 engine...it's interesting how the specs of 500HP and
> > 500LB/FT of torque match up so well with the specs for the next gen
> > Lightning 5.4...coincidence?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:28 PM
> > > To: Mark Kelley; SHOtimes (Team.net)
> > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > >
> > >
> > > ???? What else is the LS6 certified for? Unless you are
> talking the new
> > > CTS-V. No big deal for cars like that, costing $50K+ for the
> > Z06, probably
> > > an easy $55-60K for the CTS-V.
> > >
> > > Haven't followed the GT engine development, but I'll bet the only
> > > things in
> > > common with the lightning motor are the 5.4 liters and the
> > Eaton. I'm sure
> > > that tuning is way different, which a much wider power band.
> > >
> > > Ron Porter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark Kelley [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:27 PM
> > > To: SHOtimes (Team.net); Ron Porter
> > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, it is. There's a big write up in the current issue of Car
> > and Driver
> > > about how much of the design work for the GT version of
> engine was doing
> > > through virtual reality. There's big beautiful Eaton SC sitting
> > > on top that
> > > baby!
> > >
> > > It seems to me if GM can re-certify the Corvette LS6 for different
> > > applications in a cost effective manner, Ford should be able
> to do it as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:31 PM
> > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Essentially the same" doesn't mean much. Each application must
> > > certified,
> > > > and for $100K+ fro the GTG, it could very well be certified
> > > just for that
> > > > package.
> > > >
> > > > IIRC, the GT motor isn't supercharged.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mkelley1@gt.rr.com [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56 PM
> > > > To: ronporter@prodigy.net; mkelley1@gt.rr.com;
> shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They're putting essentially the same engine into the Ford GT
> > so it must
> > > > also be federalized for passenger vehicles as well.
> > > >
> > > > Original Message:
> > > > -----------------
> > > > From: Ron Porter ronporter@prodigy.net
> > > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:52:04 -0400
> > > > To: mkelley1@gt.rr.com, shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > IIRC, it's federalized for lower emissions in the pickup truck.
> > > > Plus, it is
> > > > a TALL engine with the blower on it. I don't see it fitting into any
> > > > passenger car with out a serious hood scoop.
> > > >
> > > > It's also set up as a torque monster. I prefer engines with
> > > more flexible
> > > > rpm ranges.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mkelley1@gt.rr.com [mailto:mkelley1@gt.rr.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 4:34 PM
> > > > To: ronporter@prodigy.net; dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com;
> > > > shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is an alternative: put in the Lightning engine. It
> > makes more HP
> > > > and is already federalized.
> > > >
> > > > Of course you still have the price issue. I agree with you
> > on that one.
> > > > If I had $60K to blow, I'm not sure I'd do it on a Falcon.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > Original Message:
> > > > -----------------
> > > > From: Ron Porter ronporter@prodigy.net
> > > > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:35:27 -0400
> > > > To: dmckinnon@asttechlabs.com, shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can't really tell from the pix, as the hoodline may be taller on
> > > > the Falcon
> > > > than the CV/GM. I have read that the 5.4 will not fit the CV/GM,
> > > > or even the
> > > > Town Car, for that matter.
> > > >
> > > > Bring the Falcon here????? Well, I guess it's time for me to
> > put on my
> > > > "Voice Of Doom" t-shirt (a very nice Carhart shirt that Dave
> > > > Garber had made
> > > > up, BTW!!) that I got after being on the V8 list for too long.
> > > > The car/motor
> > > > does not meet EPA emissions/mileage/crash regs. The motor is
> > > close to the
> > > > 320 HP Cobra motor (yeah, some more torque from the 5.4,
> though), and
> > > > Federalizing it will drop it to at least 320 HP. Plus, the car
> > > > weighs almost
> > > > 4,000 lbs.....damn close to Marauder weight.
> > > >
> > > > The direct conversion from Australian $$$ to US $$$ prices it
> > > at $50,130.
> > > > Add in the EPA and other Federalized stuff, and that's a $60K+
> > > car. Sorry,
> > > > there are other cars on the market for that kinda $$$ that would be
> > > > preferable........and not named a Falcon!!
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Don
> McKinnon (AST)
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:42 PM
> > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I pretty sure that it can fit! The Australian Ford Falcon XR8
> > > > gets the DOHC
> > > > 5.4l motor, It's deck is not bigger than the Marauder/CV, see a
> > > > good pix of
> > > > the car here
> > > > http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/2003_ford_ba_falcon_xr8.html
> > > > (why is
> > > > it every time I see a pix of this car I drool!)
> > > >
> > > > A 6sp tranny would help with the EPA just like it does/did on the
> > > > New Cobra,
> > > > and C5, CST-V and F-body GM cars.
> > > >
> > > > Don McKinnon
> > > > 95 MTX - White/Mocha 91k miles
> > > > Stage 1 Power Package with Stage 1cams
> > > > Canyon Carver Road/Race Suspension
> > > > Quaife & HiRevs Competition Clutch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:34 PM
> > > > To: BJamesjr@aol.com; shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Would have been nice, except I'm sure it does not fit. Even a
> > > stock 5.4 is
> > > > very tall, and IIRC the stock 5.4 won't fit in the CV/GM body.
> > > >
> > > > Besides, doesn't the Lightning motor qualify under easier
> > > > emissions/mileage
> > > > stds than regular passenger engines?
> > > >
> > > > Ron Porter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of BJamesjr@aol.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:23 AM
> > > > To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] (OT) Marauder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The S/C Cobra motor in the Marauder would have
> > > > > sold every one that they could build.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, or even the motor out of the Lightning pickup.
> > > > _______________________________________________
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