[Shotimes] RE: supercharging
Lewis
lewisweb@charter.net
Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:52:13 -0500
Why don't you just buy a 88 Iroc-Z, put a crate motor in it and beat the BMW
and the SHO. I don't know about you guys but if you start trying to
quantify how much stuff costs for how much performance you get, you are
starting with the wrong vehicles.
I mod my SHO because I like the SHO, period. A friend of mine put around
$30,000(yes, you read that right) in his Gti with a N/A VR6. It would hang
right beside his 96 vette. Now he spent a boatload on that car and got the
same performance that he already had in the vette, but that wasn't the
point. And IIRC his N/A VR6 was laying down 256hp at the wheels!!!
William Lewis
95 red mtx
91+ white
-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Nottingham
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 5:16 AM
To: SHOtimes
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
So, how much did you pay for your SHO? Did you build this yourself? Or did
you buy it from someone tired of trying to tune it? BTW, already modified
cars will always be cheaper to buy than if you bought a stock car and modded
it yourself.
If anyone wants a recipe for an E30 BMW (84-91 325) that will spank a SHO,
here goes:
Start with any 84-87 325es or 88 325 (not 325i or 325is, just 325). The
preferred starting point (less engine mods) is the 88 325. These cars come
with a 2.7L eta (economy) I6, not much hp, but have boat loads of torque.
Now, depending on what year eta you have determines what parts you will need
(the 88 eta engine is considered the best, as it is known as the SuperEta).
I will concentrate on the 88, since it is a little easier. First get the
cam, Motronic ECU, intake (complete TB, FI), valve springs, and tachometer
from a 325i. The 88 325 has the 325i head, all that is needed is to drill a
few oil passages for some of the cam bearings (the SuperEta only revs to
5200 rpm, not all cam bearings need oil passages), if you have another year
325es, you will need the 325i head also, as the Eta head has small valves
and intake and exhaust. Install all the parts and you will have a ~195hp
2.7L screamer, with a nice fat torque curve (peak around ~200 lb-ft). If
you have an es, weight should be around 2780 lbs, while the 4-door only 88
325 would tip the scales around 2760 lbs.
Next, get a T25 turbo, either have a exhaust manifold welded up, or find a
manifold from a 524td (it's a turbo diesel, but you will need to weld up new
flanges). Now, you will need a chip, pretty easy to get custom E30 chips,
since E30 tuning is still big. You should see around 275 hp, with light
boost (8 psi) and no intercooler. All in a car that weighs around 2800
pounds, AFTER the addition of the turbo.
Finally, get a 4.10 LSD from a 325is. It sure is nice paying $250 for LSD,
instead of the $1200+ for an LSD for the SHO :-)
This car could be built for less than $2500 (including the car!!). Easiest
way? Find a ragged out 88 325 that some poor schmoe can't afford to fix
(offer $300, go up to $400), get a totaled 325is parts car with good
interior ($600). Do the work yourself, and buying other parts as needed,
say you spend $1500 out of pocket (ragged 325 + totaled 325is + misc parts:
$400 + $600 + $500 = $1500), you have around $1000 to spend for
turbocharging (or if you want, a supercharger).
I don't know how this combo will work on a dragstrip, but on any road
course, it should eat up any SHO.
Ron N. - Dalton, GA
90 SHO
89 325i
"It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Tyner" <shospeed@bigplanet.com>
To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:12 PM
Subject: Fw: RE: RE: RE: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
> I was just comparing apples to apples Ron. Who turbo's a SHO? There are
a
> lot more turbo BMW's than turbo SHO's. The second I see taillights from a
> BMW that cost less than my SHO, you can have my keys.
>
> Toolman
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Ron Porter
> Date: Sunday, February 09, 2003 8:04:09 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
> Who puts a turbo on a BMW? Sorry, I'm not a turbo fan. Yeah, I would buy a
> factory turbo 911, but that's about it. Turbos on BMWs are quite rare. I
am
> familiar with mods for 911s, and for BMWs through what good friends of
mine
> do, and I won't get into that discussion here. Besides, older M3s are low
> 14-second cars, new ones are high 13s STOCK....you start from a different
> base.
>
> Dinan is a top-end aftermarket tuner. Take a SHO to Vadim, hand him the
> keys, and have him do a complete turnkey blower car.....THEN compare the
> price to Dinan.
>
> Sorry, BMWs have held resale very well wrt to used-car market. Look at the
> percentages, not absolute $$$. Even so, an '89 535i that listed for 2x the
> cost of an '89 SHO is now worth 5x the price of a used '89 SHO, and if it
> was cared for, it's tighter than the SHO ever was when new.
>
> As has been said here before.......don't confuse "best for the money" with
> "the best". A Ponderosa steak at $5.99 may be the "best for the money"
> compared to a Ruth's Cris or Morton's steak for $25-30, but it ain't "the
> best". SHOs have been BMW wannabes since the day the first SHO rolled off
> the line.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Timothy Tyner
> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 5:53 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Fw: RE: RE: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
>
> That is what I mean. Turbo kits for BMW's are not cheap. Even a Dinan SC
> is crazy expensive. If you think it is cheaper to modify an M3 than a SHO,
> I have some SHO mods to sell you. Also, unless it is an M, the resale
value
> on BMW's sucks.
>
> Toolman
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Ron Porter
> Date: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:51:30 PM
> To: Timothy Tyner; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
> No, why would I? There aren't any BMW turbos from the factory. Only one I
> can recall is a model for Europe-only back in the '80s.
>
> FWIW, I can maintain my 911 for less than a SHO. As I move into BMWs, I
have
> a few friends who are long-time BMW owners, and I can bet their
maintenance
> & performance upgrades are less costly than anything for a SHO.
>
> Plus, their cars (as well as my 911) have something that is very foreign
to
> SHO owners.......it's called "resale value".
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Timothy Tyner
> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 2:38 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Fw: RE: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
>
> Have you priced a turbo for a BMW lately?
>
> Toolman
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Ron Porter
> Date: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:28:38 PM
> To: Timothy Tyner; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
> Yes, but.....
>
> Other cars have cheaper performance mods, which also can have decent
resale
> if you pull them off.
>
> Other cars can get more bang for the buck in performance mods.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Timothy Tyner
> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:44 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Fw: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
>
> That is true of any car.
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Ian Fisher
> Date: Saturday, February 08, 2003 7:51:47 PM
> To: 'Michael Humbert'; 1badsho@mail.tnh.net
> Cc: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
> but you'll
> never get the money that you put into it back.
>
> Ian
> More mods and maintenance than you can shake a stick at and still worth
> nothing.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Michael Humbert
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 8:36 PM
> To: 1badsho@mail.tnh.net
> Cc: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: [Shotimes] RE: supercharging
>
>
> Upon consideration of all the advice given, I've determined that I may
> be acting a bit naovely. I'm thinking that I should add a Quaife, a
> better exhaust system, a larger MAF, and a higher performance clutch.
> Then, after all of that has been completed, I will begin planning out
> the installation of a supercharger, assuming I still have some money and
> the desire to mess with my car anymore. Thanks for knocking some sense
> into me!
>
> Mike Humbert
> 90 titanium w/159K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donelson Don [mailto:1badsho@mail.tnh.net]
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 9:15 AM
> To: humbem@rpi.edu
> Cc: shotimes@mail.tnh.net
> Subject: supercharging
>
> With what I know about Supercharged SHO's I dont recommend them unless
> your A) totally proficent on working on your car B) the installer is in
> your home town.
>
> A super charged show is a hoot to drive. My car was probably on the
> light end of HP as S/C SHO's go. I estimate I was about 360 HP +/-.
>
> When you mod a car to the point of S/C you will potentially face
> problems from a variety of areas. Blown clutchs, possibly blown motors
> ......... bad running motor , turned half shafts ..etc.etc.
>
> This is a very expensive propostion. I most certainly would not have the
> car as your daily driver.
>
> Bottom line ; yes they are a blast to have ... but unless your very
> proficent and plan to use this as your second car I would advise against
> it.
>
> dond
> 91 Super SHO
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