[Shotimes] Radar/Laser Detectors

Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:33:22 -0500

The "at night" follows on what I've been saying for the last few years, and
I mentioned it again in an earlier post........90% of ticket avoidance is
done with your eyes, and with instant-on and laser used at night, you can't
see them.

I have racked up many highway miles over the last 20 years with detectors. I
spent a few years doing round-trips from  Chicago-to-Detroit, then a year of
Chicago-Louisville every week, then I've been doing Detroit-Louisville since
'95. Instant-on is impossible to find in the dark. More than once a KY
trooper has been in the median on I-71 and the detector lights up before I
see him.

Cops are getting MUCH better using low-power instant-on, laser, and VASCAR.
Seems to be the younger cops that actually work on being stealthy.

I do my 79 mph in both 65 (like OH & IN) zones as well as MI 70 zones in the
daytime. At night, it ain't worth it, so I stay at 74-75 in a  65 (but stay
at 79 in a 70), UNLESS I get lucky at there's a "rabbit" about 1/4 mile
ahead that I can follow.

What took me years to learn is that it's not IF you get caught, it's WHEN
you get caught.

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of D Potter
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:41 PM
To: shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: RE: [Shotimes] Radar/Laser Detectors

Forget about it after dark, a detector is useless. Just stay 10 or less
> under the limit.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? I drive almost exclusively at night,
and get the same response from my detector as I do during the day. Plenty of
advance warning. Those that are griping are just showing their ignorance of
the limitations of detectors. Try to avoid confusing "bad performance" with
popping over a hill at 90mph and getting busted by a cop. These things can't
perform miracles.

Here's a little helpful guideline:

Hi-frequency, electrically propagated waves (like those used in police speed
detectors) will not travel far through earth or rock, so expecting to pick
up a cop over the next hill is asking to much. The waves will, however,
reflect off of heavy moisture or clouds , so you might pick up a signal on a
cloudy/rainy day from over a hill, especially if the cop is at the bottom of
the hill facing up towards you. Curves pose similar problems. Trees,
buildings, etc like to block the path of the waves.

LASER speed detectors. While laser beams are a more confined signal (beam
pattern), they offer nothing more than the ability for the officer to
pinpoint a specific target. When the beam hits something, it is scattered
and will be picked up by a detector. Your disadvantage is that, at 3am, you
may be the only car on the road. The cop's disadvantage is that laser
detectors cannot track multiple targets simultaneously, so the cop can only
verify the speed of one car at a time. With RADAR, most systems will show
the speeds of all vehicles in it's target area, one at a time, and the cop
is allowed to visually verify which car is doing what speed.

Instant on. Not a real problem except late at night. Even then, I still get
hits when they trigger the car a mile ahead.  A one-second warning is a dead
giveaway.

Use detector placement to your advantage. The higher the better. The dark
shading at the top of some windshields may reduce performance due to
metallic content. I've found no problems with it in my 95.  My detector sits
above the rear view mirror. Rear detection is limited by this placement, but
not so much that I cannot tell that a cop is coming up behind me with his
system hot.

Know your states. You can easily find out what systems each state uses. I
travel from Louisville, Ky to LP, Mi a lot and never go through Indiana
unless we have lots of time and the wife wants to hit the outlet malls along
the way.

Be smart about your driving. Doing 95 around 80 traffic is asking for
attention. The cops don't always have their radar on, sometimes they
visually clock you against markers. A cop on his way home from work will
pull you over and ticket you if you blow past him/her at a ridiculous speed.
Even with a detector you have to keep your eyes open. I still scan for
brakelights regardless of the conditions.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
To: "Timothy Tyner" <shospeed@bigplanet.com>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 4:23 PM
Subject: RE: RE: [Shotimes] Radar/Laser Detectors

> Yeah, that badge does help!!!! I've got some very good friends who are
fire
> fighters, and keeping the badge next to the license in your wallet isn't a
> bad idea!!
>
> BUT.....it won't help you if you really screw up...........110 in a 55
does
> get frowned on!!
>
> FWIW, 90% of avoiding a speeding ticket is done with your eyes. Another 8%
> or so is done with letting a "rabbit" (usually some trashed-out, rusty
car)
> speed past you and sniff out the radar/laser.
>
> Two points. A radar detector is virtually useless if you are the only one
on
> the road, and no one is in front of you. A detector will just tell you
that
> you will get a ticket from a laser or a low-power instant-on gun.
>
> Forget about it after dark, a detector is useless. Just stay 10 or less
> under the limit.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Timothy Tyner
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 3:58 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Fw: RE: [Shotimes] Radar/Laser Detectors
>
>
> Or just do like me and trust on your good looks and a big smile to get you
> out of tickets!  Or maybe it was the FD shirt I had on:D
>
>  Seriously though, I will be driving a quick car across half the country
in
> a week, and I will probably buy my first detector tonight.  Whatever I can
> get at Best Buy, as that is the only card with any credit left!:D
>
>
> Toolman
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Ron Porter
> Date: Sunday, January 12, 2003 2:45:24 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Radar/Laser Detectors
>
> Ahhhhhh, Don, this is why I call you and others "Val-1 Groupies"!! ;-)
> Someone comes up with a simple statement of their true observation, and we
> get a full marketing pitch!!
>
> Keep in mind, this is your opinion. Kirk stated a very simple observation
> based on a real incident. IMHO, you have been sucked in by the Mike
> Valentine marketing machine. I respect what you believe. What I have a
> problem with, from you and other Val-1 groupies, is that the Val-1 is the
> only way to save your ass from radar. This is false. Val-1s do well in
> tests.....tests are not true driving situations.
>
> Also, you must keep in mind that you are a rather conservative driver.
> Frankly, I don't even know why you need a radar detector, as you don't
> regularly drive more than 10 over the limit, from what I recall. As I have
> told people in the past.....if you don't drive more than 10 over the
limit,
> don't waste your money on a radar detector.
>
> I generally drive in the 79-in-a 70-limit zone, but there are many times
> when I will do 90-100 in 65-70 zones when I need to get somewhere. I
> absolutely trust my Escort detectors to save my ass.....and they HAVE
saved
> my ass for the last 20 years. With this record, spending the extra $$$ on
a
> Val-1 with those goofy arrows flashing at me could not have done any
better.
>
> Folks looking at buying radar detectors need to see the various opinions.
> Anyone can talk all they want about test results and marketing BS, but
> putting your license in the hands of an electronic device is the true test
> of faith, and my Escorts have not let me down......one qualification, my
> Passport let me down almost 10 years ago when I got nailed by a new
> technology (a Stalker gun on Ka) that it couldn't detect....but Ka
detectors
> were then just hitting the market, led by Escort.
>
> Anyone should buy what they want. If someone feels a Val-1 gives them more
> protection, go for it. Just be aware that the Val-1 is not the
> be-all-and-end-all in radar and laser protection. Those of us who have
been
> flagrant speed limit violators for MANY years do think otherwise.
>
> Ron Porter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Donald Mallinson
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 10:09 AM
> To: Kirk.doucette@verizon.net
> Cc: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Radar/Laser Detectors
>
>
> Sure, but the answer is longer than you might want, but you
> should understand why I like my V1 as much as I do.
>
> Were the two units you mention in the exact same vehicle at
> the exact same time? NO. Unless you are running the two
> units under the exact same situation, and both units are new
> or in the same condition, you can't really compare. How was
> each mounted? A lot of factors enter into the performance
> equation.
>
> I have run my Val 1 with other's Passports or other units,
> including, at the time, a brand new BEL top of the line
> unit. Same car, same location (within a couple inches,
> lined up together), and the Val 1 beat the Other units every
> time. K-40 is a good unit, and properly mounted it doesn't
> have to go through the glass, and that does make a
> difference. But where each car was located on the road
> makes a bigger difference. I have seen radar bounce off a
> sign, a bridge or anything else metal and kick off a
> detector when others in the same general area were dark.
> One example does not proof make....I go with virtually EVERY
> radar detector test in the past decade, showing that the V1
> is as good if not much better than anything available. Mike
> Valentine is just good, that is why he has built the two
> most respected units anywhere, the original Escort and now
> the V1. Both were solid units that performed WAY above the
> norm back then and now.
>
> As for size, The V1 is a tiny bit bigger, but it is WAY
> easier to use, no need for all those "Programs" when the
> thing works the way it is supposed too. One knob, one
> concentric knob. And all those others have an owners
> manual you have to memorize to use correctly. My V1 was up
> and "memorized" within 5 minutes. Also, I have NEVER had a
> Valentine detector come apart on me. Solid as a rock, and
> only an ounce heavier, and that tiny bit of size/weight is
> of ZERO concern to me. My unit fits above the inside rear
> view mirror where it is not a glaring sign to police or
> thieves, and although the dark band on the glass cuts down
> laser detection, that isn't of concern. More than instant
> on radar, laser is a true "you been had" problem, but even
> now, they aren't in use in most areas of the country, and
> almost not at all in my part.
>
> There are other factors. Sure instant on is a problem, but
> a good detector will pick it up if a car in front of, or
> behind you is painted. And with the Val 1 I know which it
> is, with any other detector you have no clue. (exception is
> the K-40 dual unit, again, a good unit) I get warnings
> sometimes a mile or more away. Running alone at night on a
> deserted highway is when I usually go my slowest!
>
> Also, my Val 1 has a tone that lets me know, better than any
> other detector I have tried or experienced, how FAR Away THE
> THREAT IS. Not with the little lights, but with the tone.
> No other detector I have tried has such a range of tone that
> gives a good indication of how far away the threat is.
> Most others have to be practically nose to nose with the
> threat before they go full alert. My Valentine will go on
> full point as soon as the threat is line of sight. How
> valuable is that?
>
> I don't use my detector as much to get out of tickets as to
> know what is going on around me. I want to know BEFORE I
> crest that hill if there is a trap on the other side before
> the jerk in front of me slams on his brakes. At least with
> the detector I can know when some of this is going to happen.
>
> I don't "depend" on the Val 1, I use it as part of my
> on-highway tools. along with the CB (still valuable if you
> know how to talk to the truckers, and I have been doing so
> for 30+ years), and the scanner, when I drive the '89.
>
> Eyes and common sense are the biggest part of the package.
>
> I mention all this about the V1 because it is simply the
> best unit I have ever seen or tried. The cost factor is NOT
> a factor, I have had $50 specials and just like the $200+
> regular detectors that is all they are, a "detector". No
> value to me at all. I want to know what direction the
> threat is coming from. I learned that was valuable with my
> original Valentine Escort. It had a superior quality needle
> meter (can't sell those now, kids want those flashy lights,
> but a meter is still WAY better when you want to evaluate a
> signal) that would let me tell if a threat was in front,
> behind or from the side... and I could tell from WHAT side!
> Can't even do that with the new V1. How?
>
> By watching the needle when it was in alert mode. Needle
> drops as you approach and go under a bridge? Threat ahead.
> Needle gains as you approach a bridge? Threat behind.
> Needle gains as you go by a big metal sign on the left?
> Threat to the right etc. Understanding how radio waves work
> and bounce, I could with almost 100% accuracy determine
> where the threat was coming from, and even with some
> accuracy, how far away. Wish the new V1 had a meter!
>
> Oh, and My original V1 was updated for about 2/3 the cost of
> a new one a couple of years ago by the factory. I could
> care less about how "snazzy" a detector looks. Most "new"
> units by BEL and Passport are less about performance than
> looks. When a unit truly peforms, and provides VALUE, it
> doesn't have to be trendy. The V1 continues to be a best
> seller, though it is virtually identical to the very first
> one sold many years ago. Updates have been to performance,
> never to style. Build quality, performance, ease of use,
> and features that pay off. That is value.
>
> So that is my Detector bible.
>
> Don Mallinson
>
>
>
> Kirk Doucette wrote:
> > Mr .M could you explain to me why my K40 picked up some radar during the
> 01
> > Convention but the Val 1 did not? Its kind of moot since it was too late
> but
> > the guy with the Val 1 got a ticket and the other guy did not with the
> K40.
> >
> >
> > Kirk J Doucette
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