[Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long

[Ron DeReus]

Ok all - flushed with new ATE fluid, just over a liter, starting by sucking
out as much from the master cylinder as possible and refilling with ATE.
Bled (the lame way) starting with RR, then LF, then LR, finally RF, per
Chilton's and an old Don D. post.  Fluid looked amber the whole time, so not
real sure if it got all flushed - don't know what the PO had in for fluid,
but looked the same.  Didn't seem to be any air in the lines.  Car was not
up on stands, so the bias valve should be ok - not real sure what to look
for, other than you couldn't really move it with the suspension compressed.

Went for a test drive, and not sure if it's better.  2 panic stops from
60mph on pavement resulted in decent stopping distances I think, but no ABS
or lockup action.  Went out on gravel and did 2 panic stops- ABS worked
perfectly.  Went back to pavement, first of 3 panic stops the ABS kicked in;
the last 2 acted as before.  I gave up and parked it for the night.

The pedal does not go to the floor - once the pedal travels the 1/2 inch or
so until it starts braking, the pedal stiffens up, like no power assist, and
has done this the whole time since changing the pads.

Thoughts? TIA

Ron DeReus
95MTX

-----Original Message-----
From: Epperly [mailto:epperly1@optonline.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 4:34 PM
To: Ron DeReus
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long


Spongy brakes = air or moisture.
bleed them again.
Lee



Rebleed them and check the back bias valve to see if its stuck in the open
position.

Kirk J Doucette



I have a vacuum bleeder (that works off my compressor) ha I won at the 2000
SHO Convention. I have since bough a pressure bleeder that works better
IMHO:

http://www.motiveproducts.com/

It doesn't flush the ABS, only the high $$$ dealer setup can do that. I just
go out to the dirt road that leads into my sub to get the abs going.

Frankly, for a basic brake job (new pads & rotors) I have not have the "ABS
Function" help me at all when I re-bled the brakes after engaging the ABS.
Maybe if it has been 2+ years since you flushed the fluid it would help, but
I flush the fluid once a year or sooner, and the ABS flush has never made a
difference.

Ron Porter



The only way to get air in the abs system you would need to remove one of
its parts. The dealers use a breakout box which lets them run the pump in
the abs system for a minute to fully pressurize it. Then you first start the
car it runs the abs pump for 10 seconds to charge the abs system. That
charge does not go past the solenoid valves. I do not think the abs is the
problem but more likely there is air in the normal system.
            Ken


> Do parts stores loan out he vacuum and pressure bleeders?  I bet they
would
> help get any air out of the ABS controller, too.  The Chilton's mentioned
> some special code reader or something that would activate the parts of the
> ABS controller to flush out the air as you bled each wheel.
>
> I know some of you mentioned having this done at dealerships in the past
> with their special equipment - but neither one near me, nor Midas, seemed
to
> know about anything special to be done on ABS equipped vehicles.
>
> Ron D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Ron Porter
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 4:02 PM
> To: 'Ron DeReus'; 'Shotimes'
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
>
>
> It sounds like you need to bleed the brakes again. If you had the ABS kick
> in, you have had the new fluid run though the system.
>
> How are you bleeding the brakes? The "having a friend push the pedal"
method
> is the lamest way to go. A vacuum or pressure bleeder does the best job.
> The type of brake pad also matters, although the PFCM pads will give you a
> firm pedal (unlike cheap pads like Albanys)
>
> Ron Porter



The only resetting done by the abs system is after a problem is fixed (a
code) driving at a speed above 20 mph will reset the computer. from the
Helms.
        Ken



>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Ron DeReus
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 3:33 PM
> To: Shotimes
> Subject: [Shotimes] brakes funny after new pads - kinda long
>
>
> Ok, I got new PFCM pads installed on all 4 corners this week - 6014's
front
> and 6104's rear; found a couple frozen sliders I fixed, too.  Surfaced all
> the rotors; none needed replaced, I'm guessing they're factory still.
Never
> cracked a bleeder - when compressing the caliper pistons, just let it go
> back to the master cylinder.
>
> Took it out for a drive, and it acts like I have no power assist now-
spongy
> until it the brakes start to work, but then I can stand on them for all
I'm
> worth and not get them to lock up OR get the ABS to kick in.  I thought
> maybe they needed bedded in, so I did about four 60-0 stops until I
started
> to smell them, drove several miles back home to allow them to cool, and
> parked it for the night.  But 3 days of normal driving later, they still
> don't seem right.  I had some other guys at work drive it, and one of them
> did get the brakes to lockup, and he thinks the ABS computer needs reset,
> like a Bronco or something he used to have.  How do I do this?  I did try
to
> dump the normal computer while doing the brakes (battery out, pressed on
the
> brake pedal for a minute or so to dump the memory.)
>
> I have ATE brake fluid on the way from Raceshopper, so we will be flushing
> and bleeding the system this week if this is all I need.
>
> TIA
>
> Ron DeReus
> 95MTX