[Shotimes] FW: Still no Start ????
Steve Weinrich
stevwein@swbell.net
Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:11:32 -0500
Bingo.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron DeReus" <dereus@fbx.com>
To: "Shaun & Meggen Livermore" <smlivermore@wi.rr.com>;
<shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:47 AM
Subject: RE: [Shotimes] FW: Still no Start ????
> I think that little wire supplies power to the PCM.
>
> Ron DeReus
> 95MTX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
> [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Shaun & Meggen
> Livermore
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:57 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: [Shotimes] FW: Still no Start ????
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I was reading up on the article about the sho's not starting on the
> Shotimes website, and was wondering what you all thought. I know my
> battery is shot; I have to jump it every time I try starting it because
> the battery doesn't like to hold a charge. Also the person whom I
> bought it from had the battery out of the car and placed it back in
> before I picked it up. I just noticed today that that small wire coming
> off of the positive terminal was not connected. I didn't know what it
> was for. Also the battery connections are only half way on, yet they
> seem somewhat tight. I tried reconnecting that small wire and noticed
> that the engine seemed as if it wanted to fire now, better than it was
> before, but still would not run. Any thoughs?
>
> Shaun Livermore
> 91 SHO+ 127000 miles
> Sussex, WI
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> The PCM fires the injectors. Take the PCM fire wall connection off and
> clean and put back together. Does you check engine like come on when the
> key is on? Light looks good and strong? . .
>
>
>
> > OK,
> >
> > The car's back together but will not run. I pressed on the fuel
> > pressure valve and fuel indeed did squirt out. It will still fire
> > with starting fluid but only for a few seconds. ?????? Help!!!!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Shaun
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: van Oss [mailto:vanOss@centurytel.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 3:02 PM
> > To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore
> > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
> >
> > Okay. Put that baby back together and then get back to us. We'll be
> > very happy to talk you through the tests and checks that will pin this
>
> > down.
> >
> > Joseph
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shaun & Meggen Livermore [mailto:smlivermore@wi.rr.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 2:12 PM
> To: shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Still no Start ????
>
> OK,
>
> The car's back together but will not run. I pressed on the fuel
> pressure valve and fuel indeed did squirt out. It will still fire with
> starting fluid but only for a few seconds. ?????? Help!!!!
>
> Thanks,
> Shaun
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: van Oss [mailto:vanOss@centurytel.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 3:02 PM
> To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
>
> Okay. Put that baby back together and then get back to us. We'll be
> very happy to talk you through the tests and checks that will pin this
> down.
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun & Meggen Livermore" <smlivermore@wi.rr.com>
> To: "'van Oss'" <vanOss@centurytel.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:26 AM
> Subject: RE: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
>
>
> I think the car is wired correctly now, except for that one wire to the
> fuel pump. When I got it the lights didn't work and the keyless entry
> didn't work, etc. but now everything appears to be working, except for
> the engine not running.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: van Oss [mailto:vanOss@centurytel.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:19 AM
> To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
>
> My previous message was only trying to answer your question about the
> wire to the pump. I did not mean it as a response to the overall
> no-start problem.
>
> Before we can do more about no-start, we're going to need the car
> reassembled. Before you put the intake back on, I would pull each plug
> wire off the plug and check for any oil or water in each plug well. If
> the plug wells are clean, go ahead and put the intake back on the
> engine. There are some tests we'll need you to run, and those tests
> require an assembled car.
>
> How confident are you that the wiring has been put right?
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Even if I did that why won't the thing run. By bypassing the CCRM would
> the car not run, and if so why did it run before?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: van Oss [mailto:vanOss@centurytel.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:43 AM
> To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
>
> There is another explanation (besides the alarm) why someone installed a
> direct line for power to the fuel pump. In a stock SHO, there is a
> black box on the radiator wall, a bit left of center, called the
> Constant Control Relay Module. Inside this box is a relay that, under
> the direction of the engine computer, sends power to the fuel pump.
> When this relay fails, replacing the whole CCRM is very pricey. So a
> previous owner might have worked around a bad CCRM by wiring in his own
> line. If my guess is right, he wired it in such a way that the supply
> of power is no longer under the control of the engine computer, and is
> merely either off or constantly on. There are a couple of ways you could
> resolve this:
>
> --- You could keep the separate power line to the pump, but change it on
> the front end so that it's wired properly, with a relay. This would
> restore the engine computer's control over power to the pump.
>
> --- You could remove the added line to the pump, swap in an another CCRM
> (to make sure that's the issue), and restore your SHO to stock wiring.
>
> Joseph van Oss
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun & Meggen Livermore" <smlivermore@wi.rr.com>
> To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
> Subject: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
>
>
> Well there's more to the problem. I'll give you the long story....
>
> The car has been sitting on and off for the past 2 years. I've been
> looking at it for the past three months, and started it, and even drove
> it about a month ago. Then on the day that I was supposed to pick it up
> it wouldn't start. The owner, a friends, friend, came out to look at it
> that day to try to get it started. He replaced the fuel filter and said
> that the fuel pump was fairly new. He tried the starting fluid and it
> would run just as I tried. The car also had an alarm in it and he
> thought maybe that was the problem so he ripped it out. In doing so he
> didn't take the time to reconnect all the wires. Either way he couldn't
> get it running. The following day I had it towed over to my house so I
> could work on it. I was thinking maybe the gas had gone bad so I
> drained all of it out of the tank, running it through the fuel filter,
> and refilled it with some new gas, but that didn't do the trick. I then
> was worried about the unconnected wires so I spent all day and night
> trying to reconnect all the wires that appeared to be spiced. Then when
> I took off the back seat I became really confused. There had been a
> wire, he must have put in there, connecting the fuel pump directly to a
> 30 amp fuse in the main fuse panel upfront. I wasn't sure if this was
> for the alarm or what, so I asked him, and he said he didn't put it
> there. I tried undoing the spiced wire and reconnecting the factory
> wires, but when I do so the fuel pump does NOT run at all. When that
> spiced wire IS connected the pump runs but all the time. I then thought
> maybe it was the injectors so I took them out and they appear to be
> fine. Even though the splicing with the fuel pump is odd I don't
> understand how it can run one day and a month later it wouldn't. It sat
> since I test drove it and nobody touched it since. I don't know what to
> do. The intake is still all apart and I haven't put the injectors back
> in yet. It's a disaster. Help!!
>
> Thanks again,
> Shaun Livermore
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> Shaun,
>
> Is the intake back on the car now?
>
> You're right, when you turn the key to the RUN position, the fuel pump
> is supposed to come on for just a couple of seconds to build pressure in
> the system. Can you find the schraeder valve nestled among the intake
> runners? (Looks like a valve stem like you'd put air in a tire.) With
> key in RUN, wrap a rag around this stem and press it lightly. If a
> little fuel sprays out, you have fuel pressure.
>
> The engine computer decides when to fire the injectors. That is a ways
> down on the list of probable causes.
>
> Tell us more about the history of this car, if you know it. It has
> never been able to stay running, since you bought it? Is that why it
> was sold? What parts, especially engine sensors, have been replaced
> recently? What about the fuel filter?
>
> Joseph van Oss
> La Crosse, WI
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun & Meggen Livermore" <smlivermore@wi.rr.com>
> To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:51 AM
> Subject: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I hope one of you can help me with this problem. I have a 91' + with
> 127k miles that I just bought. The only thing is that it will not run.
> If you spray starting fluid in the throttle body it will run for a few
> seconds, so I thought maybe it was fuel related. I took off the intake
> and can hear gas running through the fuel rails and inspected the
> injectors which appear to be clean. It seems as if there might be
> something electronically wrong which is not turning the injectors on.
> Also when you turn the key to "On" the fuel pump run continuously, and
> I'm not sure if it is supposed to do that. I thought it was just
> supposed to prime the fuel injection. Anyway I was wondering if there
> is some type of fuel relay of fuse that could be blown stopping my
> injectors to fire? A wiring diagram would be excellent if any one has
> one! Please any suggestions would be of great help, as I haven't been
> able to drive it since I bought it, and I'm getting really anxious.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Shaun Livermore
>
> 1991 SHO Plus
> Sussex, WI 53089
> 262-844-1123
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