[Shotimes] Still no Start ????

Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:57:01 -0500

Shawn:
 I think this points to a ground and/or power problem. Check any small wires
coming off the negative or positive battery terminals. Also be aware that
corrosion can creep back down the length of a wire where it's not visible.
George F. has pointed out that a dim check engine light can be a bad ground
to the PCM. Double check that.
Let us know what you find.
.
.
.

> The check engine light comes on but isn't extremely bright.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin & Cheryl Airth [mailto:clubairth@peoplepc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:35 PM
> To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore; shotimes@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Still no Start ????
>
> The PCM fires the injectors. Take the PCM fire wall connection off and
> clean
> and put back together. Does you check engine like come on when the key
> is
> on? Light looks good and strong?
> .
> .
>
>
>
> > OK,
> >
> > The car's back together but will not run.  I pressed on the fuel
> > pressure valve and fuel indeed did squirt out.  It will still fire
> with
> > starting fluid but only for a few seconds.  ??????  Help!!!!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Shaun
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: van Oss [mailto:vanOss@centurytel.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 3:02 PM
> > To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore
> > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
> >
> > Okay.  Put that baby back together and then get back to us.  We'll be
> > very happy to talk you through the tests and checks that will pin this
> > down.
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shaun & Meggen Livermore" <smlivermore@wi.rr.com>
> > To: "'van Oss'" <vanOss@centurytel.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:26 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
> >
> >
> > I think the car is wired correctly now, except for that one wire to
> the
> > fuel pump.  When I got it the lights didn't work and the keyless entry
> > didn't work, etc.  but now everything appears to be working, except
> for
> > the engine not running.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: van Oss [mailto:vanOss@centurytel.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:19 AM
> > To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore
> > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
> >
> > My previous message was only trying to answer your question about the
> > wire to the pump.  I did not mean it as a response to the overall
> > no-start problem.
> >
> > Before we can do more about no-start, we're going to need the car
> > reassembled.  Before you put the intake back on, I would pull each
> plug
> > wire off the plug and check for any oil or water in each plug well.
> If
> > the plug wells are clean, go ahead and put the intake back on the
> > engine.  There are some tests we'll need you to run, and those tests
> > require an assembled car.
> >
> > How confident are you that the wiring has been put right?
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Even if I did that why won't the thing run.  By bypassing the CCRM
> would
> > the car not run, and if so why did it run before?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: van Oss [mailto:vanOss@centurytel.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:43 AM
> > To: Shaun & Meggen Livermore; shotimes@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
> >
> > There is another explanation (besides the alarm) why someone installed
> a
> > direct line for power to the fuel pump.  In a stock SHO, there is a
> > black box on the radiator wall, a bit left of center, called the
> > Constant Control Relay Module.  Inside this box is a relay that, under
> > the direction of the engine computer, sends power to the fuel pump.
> > When this relay fails, replacing the whole CCRM is very pricey.  So a
> > previous owner might have worked around a bad CCRM by wiring in his
> own
> > line.  If my guess is right, he wired it in such a way that the supply
> > of power is no longer under the control of the engine computer, and is
> > merely either off or constantly on. There are a couple of ways you
> could
> > resolve this:
> >
> > --- You could keep the separate power line to the pump, but change it
> on
> > the front end so that it's wired properly, with a relay.  This would
> > restore the engine computer's control over power to the pump.
> >
> > --- You could remove the added line to the pump, swap in an another
> CCRM
> > (to make sure that's the issue), and restore your SHO to stock wiring.
> >
> > Joseph van Oss
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shaun & Meggen Livermore" <smlivermore@wi.rr.com>
> > To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
> > Subject: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
> >
> >
> > Well there's more to the problem.  I'll give you the long story....
> >
> > The car has been sitting on and off for the past 2 years.  I've been
> > looking at it for the past three months, and started it, and even
> drove
> > it about a month ago.  Then on the day that I was supposed to pick it
> up
> > it wouldn't start.  The owner, a friends, friend, came out to look at
> it
> > that day to try to get it started.  He replaced the fuel filter and
> said
> > that the fuel pump was fairly new.  He tried the starting fluid and it
> > would run just as I tried.  The car also had an alarm in it and he
> > thought maybe that was the problem so he ripped it out. In doing so he
> > didn't take the time to reconnect all the wires.  Either way he
> couldn't
> > get it running.  The following day I had it towed over to my house so
> I
> > could work on it.  I was thinking maybe the gas had gone bad so I
> > drained all of it out of the tank, running it through the fuel filter,
> > and refilled it with some new gas, but that didn't do the trick.  I
> then
> > was worried about the unconnected wires so I spent all day and night
> > trying to reconnect all the wires that appeared to be spiced.  Then
> when
> > I took off the back seat I became really confused.  There had been a
> > wire, he must have put in there, connecting the fuel pump directly to
> a
> > 30 amp fuse in the main fuse panel upfront.  I wasn't sure if this was
> > for the alarm or what, so I asked him, and he said he didn't put it
> > there.  I tried undoing the spiced wire and reconnecting the factory
> > wires, but when I do so the fuel pump does NOT run at all.  When that
> > spiced wire IS connected the pump runs but all the time.  I then
> thought
> > maybe it was the injectors so I took them out and they appear to be
> > fine.  Even though the splicing with the fuel pump is odd I don't
> > understand how it can run one day and a month later it wouldn't.  It
> sat
> > since I test drove it and nobody touched it since.  I don't know what
> to
> > do.  The intake is still all apart and I haven't put the injectors
> back
> > in yet.  It's a disaster.  Help!!
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Shaun Livermore
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Shaun,
> >
> > Is the intake back on the car now?
> >
> > You're right, when you turn the key to the RUN position, the fuel pump
> > is supposed to come on for just a couple of seconds to build pressure
> in
> > the system.  Can you find the schraeder valve nestled among the intake
> > runners? (Looks like a valve stem like you'd put air in a tire.)  With
> > key in RUN, wrap a rag around this stem and press it lightly.  If a
> > little fuel sprays out, you have fuel pressure.
> >
> > The engine computer decides when to fire the injectors.  That is a
> ways
> > down on the list of probable causes.
> >
> > Tell us more about the history of this car, if you know it.  It has
> > never been able to stay running, since you bought it?  Is that why it
> > was sold? What parts, especially engine sensors, have been replaced
> > recently? What about the fuel filter?
> >
> > Joseph van Oss
> > La Crosse, WI
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shaun & Meggen Livermore" <smlivermore@wi.rr.com>
> > To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:51 AM
> > Subject: [Shotimes] No start!! Help
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I hope one of you can help me with this problem.  I have a 91' + with
> > 127k miles that I just bought.  The only thing is that it will not
> run.
> > If you spray starting fluid in the throttle body it will run for a few
> > seconds, so I thought maybe it was fuel related.  I took off the
> intake
> > and can hear gas running through the fuel rails and inspected the
> > injectors which appear to be clean.  It seems as if there might be
> > something electronically wrong which is not turning the injectors on.
> > Also when you turn the key to "On" the fuel pump run continuously, and
> > I'm not sure if it is supposed to do that.  I thought it was just
> > supposed to prime the fuel injection.  Anyway I was wondering if there
> > is some type of fuel relay of fuse that could be blown stopping my
> > injectors to fire?  A wiring diagram would be excellent if any one has
> > one!  Please any suggestions would be of great help, as I haven't been
> > able to drive it since I bought it, and I'm getting really anxious.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Shaun Livermore
> >
> > 1991 SHO Plus
> > Sussex, WI 53089
> > 262-844-1123
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