[Shotimes] OT : Apache hit

[Paul L Fisher]

Wow! I am happy I am part of this list. I learn a lot. I am not being
sarcastic.

Thanks Jim! 

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of James F. Ryan III
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 12:02 AM
To: Donald Mallinson; shotimes@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] OT : Apache hit

In the Apache (and the Cobra), the pilot sits in the rear seat and the
co-pilot/gunner (CP/G) sits in the front seat to afford him the best view of
the target(s).

At the very beginning of the tape you hear the chain gun being fired, BUT
there are NO rounds hitting anything or anybody near the gun's crosshairs.
The pilot quickly notices this and asks the CP/G, "What range do you have?"
The CP/G responds, "I've got laser range on it."

If you look at the lower left of the display, it says TADS which stands for
Target Acquisition and Designation System.  This is the bulbous nose of the
Apache that swivels to follow the CP/G's head movement.  It's comprised of 3
lenses.  The largest lens is the target acquisition camera which is what
this MPEG is from.  The other 2 lenses are the laser target designator and
the laser range finder.

The laser range finder is the most accurate method for obtaining
range-to-target data (for the gun and the Hellfire missiles), but apparently
it was malfunctioning.  If you look at the lower left of the dispaly, above
the word RECORDING, actually right above the "ING" in the word, you'll see
R0.2.  It looks like an N but it's an R.  The R stands for Regular (or
Laser) range-to-target method.  The 0.2 is the distance in kilometers to the
target as measured by the laser.

The astute pilot quickly determines that the laser range finder is not
functioning properly and promptly says, "Go auto-range".  The CP/G switches
to auto-range and says, "Range...auto".  Now watch above the "ING" and
you'll see the data change from R0.2 to A0.4, and the CP/G acknowledges,
"Got auto-range on it".  "A" is for auto-range which means the laser is not
being used.  In auto-range mode, the weapons computer uses the angle of the
camera with respect to the ground, and the altitude of the helicopter above
the ground to obtain 2 sides of a triangle.  It then uses the Pythagorean
Theorem to calculate the other side of the triangle - the range-to-target.
Auto-range is very inaccurate (compared to the laser) and can only be used
when the ground between the helicopter and the target is relatively flat.
The pilot obviously knew this so he told the CP/G to switch modes.


> Just a thought, wouldn't the peope anywhere in the vicinity, even with 
> truck engines running hear the 30MM rounds hit the pavement, or even 
> dirt road?

The calculated auto-range displayed is 0.4, which means 0.4km, which equals
400m, which equals 437 yards.  That's a pretty good distance away.  I'm sure
the Iraqi soldiers could hear the 30mm gun, but in the pitch black of night
it's difficult to determine what direction the helicopter is firing.  If you
and I were standing only 50ft away from each other in the pitch black and I
was throwing rocks "near" you, there were be very little noise as the rocks
struck the dirt, grass, or even the pavement.  You definitely wouldn't be
able to tell where I was.


> The guy on the left, immediately after the first guy disappears, seems 
> to be removing a jacket.  Wonder if he thought he was wearing too 
> bright of clothing, or maybe he was hit with a hot piece of shrapnel?  
> Anyway, it is clear he knows something is going on.

I still disagree.

As far as "hot shrapnel", there is no metal metal flying thru the air as the
first guy is being shredded.  Those "pieces" flying the the air are the
98.6deg F "parts" of guy #1.  Stones or pavement kicked up by the rounds
would not appear as "white-hot" on the FLIR; but body parts and pieces do.

Even as the pieces of guy #1 are landing around him, guy #2 seems un-phased.
He appears to carry on with his original task, and he doesn't hit the deck
or duck for cover or anything.  He never knew what hit him.





----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Mallinson" <dmall@mwonline.net>
To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] OT : Apache hit


> James,
>
> Just a thought, wouldn't the peope anywhere in the vicinity,
> even with truck engines running hear the 30MM rounds hit the
> pavement, or even dirt road?  Those 30's go right through
> something as soft as a man, and they also hit the truck a
> lot.  I am sure 30mm rounds hitting metal make enough noise
> to alert anyone in the area that something nasty is going on.
>
> The guy on the left, immediately after the first guy
> disappears, seems to be removing a jacket.  Wonder if he
> thought he was wearing too bright of clothing, or maybe he
> was hit with a hot piece of shrapnel?  Anyway, it is clear
> he knows something is going on.
>
> Don M.
>
> James F. Ryan III wrote:
>
> > The second guy that get's it is standing by an artillery piece or
something.
> > He is totally unaware of his buddy's predicament because he can't see
him
> > (it's dark) and they didn't hear anything.  The artillery piece also
shields
> > him from any flying debris while the 1st guy is being shot.
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