[Shotimes] You've never owned a car before.....was: Re: Hold it a minute

[George Fourchy]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 01:05:23 -0400, James F. Ryan III wrote:

>Nicely put, but consider the following:

I'll do it.....one by one.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the brake rotors warp from normal driving and braking (no racing).

No argument here....the brakes are too small.  We all know that.  I've put Wilwoods
on every running Taurus I have, even the wagon.  I could get an Audi A-6 wagon, or a
Volvo C70, but I like my '91 SLO better.  It's a better utilization of my money.  
That's the way things are.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the rear brake lines rusted SHUT and pretty much incapacitated the rear
>brakes.

I've heard about that, but never had it happen.  I have had it happen in my now
departed '65 Mustang...the front brakes worked OK one stop, then not at all the next
one.  New lines fixed it.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the rear springs sagged so badly after so few miles of normal driving (no
>towing or unecessary heavy loads in the trunk).

Well....I once put new ones in the Lowrider after 155,000 miles....it was sagging
pretty badly by that time.  I guess that's a few miles compared to what it has now.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the alignment is so difficult to have performed properly.
>
>I've never owned a car before where,
>in order to achieve proper front alignment the FACTORY recommneded fix is to
>drill out spot welds in the body.

Never had those problems.  I HAVE had to have the rear realigned every time there is
traumatic damage to the rear end...the factory specs will cause cupping for this
car...30 minutes spent at the local Michelin dealer fixes that until the next hit. 
(This time the body shop got it right the first time....it's being very friendly to
the Sport A/S's.)  In all their miles, I've never had to align any FWD Ford car.  I
just ajust the toe.  No problem..!

>I've never owned a car before where,
>in order to acheive proper rear alignment you swap in superior parts from
>another major auto manufacturer.

Haven't had to do that.....I can't say I know what the alignment guys have done to
the rear, but it doesn't have any GM parts on it.  I have some Zach Leahy arms for
the black car....they may or may not go on it.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the entire HVAC system was so problematic.

After nine years of use, the original R-12 system in the Lowrider finally got low in
Freon....it got an R-134 conversion for the same cost as rejuvenating the original
system.  Three years later, it needed its first compressor cycle switch.  I'm not
complaining.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the A/C lines were destroyed by battery acid because they were routed
>underneath the battery tray.

A little periodic maintenance will prevent this and other corrosion problems due to
battery spillage.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the A/C compressor clutch gap went out of a adjustment.

Never had this problem, with any Ford compressor, or any other one.  The Tbird NEVER
NEEDED ANY A/C WORK, in its entire 12 year lifetime (other than a cycle switch that
went out after about the first 6 months of ownership).

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the HVAC blend door motor........need I say more.

Never had that problem.
>
>I've never owned a car before where,
>the HVAC blower control relay........need I say more.

After 245,000 or so, I changed the one in Lowrider.....that's a suitable lifespan, I
think.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the HVAC control unit buttons crack from normal use (gee, that's on par with
>the brakes).

Yes it is.....poor engineering.  This I agree with....concession #2.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the headlight circuit is so poorly designed and one wire (the brown wire)
>overheats, melts, and almost causes a fire.

Never had this problem.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the factory stereo head unit is so poorly designed that its capacitors leak
>and render the unit inoperable after a few years of service.

I've never owned a car that had a suitable factory stereo system, period....except
for the wife's RX300.  That's a good system....better than the 2 year newer GS. 
It'll take $550 worth of extremely discounted good extra speakers and an additional
amp (and my labor) to get it up to speed.  That's in an '03 Lexus, folks....!

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the antenna breaks so frequently from normal up/down operation.

Never happened to me.....I've broken mine twice....both times my fault.  Wagon is
original.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the sunshade of the moonroof uses a water soluble adhesive that loses its
>ability to hold the material if it gets wet, ONCE.

Concession #3.....I agree with this.  But it didn't happen until the car was 6 years
old, and left open all winter for the rains to drown.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the front subframe can disconnect from the unibody because of a poorly
>designed mounting system/bolts.

Never happened to me.....I check the tightness once in a while.  One of the Delrin
bushings is cracked.  I watch it.  23,000 more miles of easy freeway driving and
it's done.  Watching it is good enough.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the ATX is SO poorly designed and SO problematic.

Concession #4.....I won't have an automatic car of ANY brand, unless there is no
choice.  The wagon has already been rebuilt (warranty failure at 21,000 miles)....it
is holding together with 101,000 on the rebuild.  I'm watching it, and getting (down
the road) an FPS rebuild to have ready to go in.  That wagon has at LEAST 10 more
years of service it will give me.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the thermostat is problematic and gets stuck in a full open position, which
>causes the motor to run cool, which causes the computer to run a rich
>mixture to 'help' the engine warm up quicker, which in turn causes a host of
>other problems

Stuck thermostats happen in all cars, at all times, for all reasons.  I siezed up my
'65 289 Mustang because of one.  This one is easy enough to change periodically that
I don't hold any ill will towards it.  And the one that is in it now has been in it
for 5 years, since the first radiator change after the desert test on the way to
Atlanta in 1999

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the failure of the head gasket (3.8L) is a known problem.

This requires no discussion.  Early 3.8 engines were a problem.  Hundreds of
thousands more Chrysler minivans had as many engine and tranny problems.  GM
probably had its share as well.  My 3.8 with 121,000 miles and new head gaskets is
almost as strong as the Lowrider and just as dependable.

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the speedometer cable becomes very noisy and needs to be replaced.

Now you're picking nits.  Lowrider's current speedo cable is just beginning to
whisper, after being in it for over 100k miles....that's the second swap...the first
replacement was routed through the dash incorrectly....a stupid factory mechanic
will make the simplest job look hard, and require redoing much sooner than the
advertised 1 year/12,000 mile warranty....just look at the T-Bird's rear
axle.....three of them lasted 13,000 miles...1k miles after the warranty runs out. 
So I think they suck, along with 8.8 inchers in Mustangs.  Result....I don't buy the
car. 

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the "power steering" provides steering but NO power (Gen1 only).

Never had that problem.....All the newer cars I have steer too easily, and combined
with a lack of caster, wander all over the road.  Gen 1 SHO steering is just fine,
thank you.  

>I've never owned a car before where,
>the accuracy of various gauges and indicating/warning lights is questionable
>due to poorly designed and very problematic sensors.

The speedo is within one MPH.  The temp gauge reads the same thing every day, when
the engine is warmed up and at speed.  It tells me when the thermostat is stuck
open, or that I need to turn on the a/c to cool the engine in heavy slow traffic. 
The fuel gauge is described as reporting "the approximate level of fuel in the tank"
per the owner's manual.  Using my brain (which I came from the factory with) I can
use it and apply the amount of miles I have traveled since the last fill of fuel to
figure within half a gallon what I will take on a refill.

>I'm sure there's a few more that we could add to this 'impressive list'.
>The point is, these are not exceptions to the rule, they are an epidemic of
>the Taurus.  Add all of these togehter, then compare to the Honda Accord and
>Toyota Camry, and POS is really only a stone's throw away.

You can add all the similar points from long term ownership of any car in this price
range, made by any manufacturer, and come up with exactly the same sort of
complaints...more from the US than from imports.  Some of these things are poor
design, some are caused by less than adequate maintenance, and some are caused by
local conditions that you have no control over.  This car has no more ills than any
other when you combine all the causative factors with all the results.  I've had
cars that didn't like me (figuratively speaking), and didn't hold together as
well....they were Monday cars, or Friday cars, or closely related to
Yugos.....poorly engineered.  Considering what these two cars, the Lowrider and the
Slorider have given me for service, enjoyment, and dependability, I can't agree with
your conclusion......sorry.

>What makes the car great?
>
>-The SHO engine is great.  (The MTX and shifter are fun, but they are far
>from great).

Considering that the SHO was tossed together with a minimum of planning and
foresight, especially in the drivetrain, I think the shifter and MTX are quite good.
 Also...my MTX has needed NO servicing or repairs in all its miles.  Maybe I am
lucky, or maybe I am a bit extra careful in the way I operate it.....I don't see
care on my part as avoiding any lack of excessive wear or failure to deliver service
on the part of the transmission.  Look at the T-5 in my T-bird.....at about 175,000
miles 5th gear and its associated bearings started making noises.....I never tracked
that car....I just drove it on the freeway.  That's a BORG WARNER WORLD CLASS
T-5......so is it junk?

>-The Gen1 factory ground effects are great (I'm very biased.  I guess you
>guys don't see many WHITE Gen1s because on a bright white Gen1 the ground
>effects stick out like a sore thumb).

I'm not sure what this means....There are several white Gen 1 cars around
here....they look normal.....if you mean they get dirty....yes they do.  That's what
paint thinner and brake cleaner are for.

>-Yes George, the doors still sound brand new when they're slammed shut (BUT,
>it only took them 50 years to get that right).

How long they been makin' GM cars?   HUH!!??  And do you SLAM your doors?  I throw
people out of my cars if they slam them twice.

>-Lastly, the factory exhaust systems, both SHO and SLO, are great.  I've
>never heard or seen a Taurus that had a loud rotted away exhaust - even here
>in the northeast.

True.  My SHOShop exhaust is still doing fine, with new cats installed in 1999.  The
Dynomax mufflers rattle when you thump them, but they muffle.  Resonators come and
go, every 3 or 4 years.....time for one more right now.

Bottom line....yes, our weather is better.  But salt and potential rust wouldn't
stop me from making a Taurus last 20 years in New York.  I won't LIVE there, but a
car would last just fine there.  Why, because I'd take care of it.  Just like I take
care of them here.  

The car has some weaknesses.  Fix them and/or live with them.  It's made by humans,
after all....very cheap (Ford) humans!!

George