[Shotimes] Clarification on: SHO cranking but not starting

[Tom Teixeira]

I can't find it in my archives, but there are some starter motors 
with different number of teeth on the drive gears. That's why George 
Fourchy recommends getting *yours* rebuilt -- you know all the 
mechanicals are correct.

With this theory, the first starter was just weak -- probably worn 
brushes -- and the replacement has the wrong number of teeth. The 
problem is that I would expect with the wrong number of teeth to 
either not engage at all (the original poster did say:

>  > When the starter is whirring, I noticed the serpentine belt was turning,
>  > though slower than what I'd think a normal crank would produce.

or I would expect some grinding noise as the gears slipped as well as whirring.

- Tom Teixeira

At 8:33 AM -0500 3/5/04, Mike.Wojton@us.o-i.com wrote:
>Well, I for one, have definitely been put in my place. But I wanted to
>go back to the original post for a second.
>
>"the engine turns over slowly but does not catch. The starter has
>that high 'whir' sound--it does not seem to engage the flywheel at all."
>
>If the engine turns over, then the starter is engaging the flywheel.  Now,
>there's all manner of prospective problems after that, but it explains
>why the majority of the discussion revolved around starters and solenoids.
>
>
>Mike Wojton
>Toledo, Ohio
>
>-'95 White MTX
>    '96 Brake Upgrade
>
>"Avoid the clap." - Jimmy Dugan
>
>
>
>shotimes-admin@autox.team.net wrote on 03/04/2004 11:15:03 PM:
>
>>  It's amazing the kind of asinine arguments people get into over idiotic
>>  things, and whoever shouts the loudest wins.
>>
>>  In any case...  Abnormal cranking like you describe which is not caused
>by a
>>  defective starter or cables can often be traced to a timing belt
>problem.
>>
>>  Do the serpentine belts/accessories move consistently when cranking?
>Next
>>  thing to check would be to remove your oil filler cap and visually
>verify
>>  that the cams are turning when the starter is cranking.   If they are,
>I'd
>>  next want to verify the timing, if they aren't, your timing belt is
>probably
>>  broken.  While I suppose it may be a starter or battery/starter cable
>>  problem, I think it would be unusual to see this with two different
>>  starters.  Another way to test would be to use a compression gauge on
>the
>>  front three cylinders.  If you get no, or really out-of-whack
>compression
>>  readings, your motor is most likely out of time.
>>
>>  Hope this is a little more helpful than a bunch of useless posts about
>how
>>  starters work! :)
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  Reply-To: <jkoper@frankgates.com>
>>  From: "Koper Jim" <jkoper@frankgates.com>
>>  To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
>>  Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:40:53 -0500
>>  Subject: [Shotimes] Clarification on:  SHO cranking but not starting
>>
>>  Thanks to those that have offered their advice so far, but I think I
>didn't
>>  word the problem correctly.
>>
>>  To clarify, the engine turns over slowly but does not catch. The starter
>has
>>  that high 'whir' sound--it does not seem to engage the  flywheel at all.
>The
>>  portion of the flywheel I could see with the starter removed was not
>missing
>>  any teeth, so wouldn't the (new) starter engage OK? If the starter is
>good
>>  but the flywheel bad, would the engine even turn at all? That's why I
>wonder
>>  if maybe the DIS or coil are bad. I gotta remember to check if the fuel
>pump
>>  is priming at KOEO.
>>
>>
>>  <Original post below for those who wish to contribute:>
>>
>>  My '92 SHO is exhibiting a no-start behavior. I went to start it the
>other
>>  day and it didn't quite catch after I released the ignition key. It was
>a
>>  solid crank. "No big deal", I thought, "I'll try again." The second time
>I
>>  tried it I heard an electric whirring sound, similar to when a starter
>is
>>  bench tested. I figured the armature gear was not engaging the flywheel.
>The
>>  starter was 4 years old (Ford reman), so I yanked it and put an Advanced
>>  Auto Parts reman starter on the car. SAME WHIRRING SOUND occurred, so
>the
>>  starter does not appear to be the weak link.
>  >
>>  A few observations:
>>
>>  When the starter is whirring, I noticed the serpentine belt was turning,
>>  though slower than what I'd think a normal crank would produce.
>>
>>  The engine does not catch now, but does turn.
>>
>>  Complete 60K done in summer 02 (10K miles ago). Timing belt, camshaft
>sensor
>>  and crankshaft sensor replaced at that time.
>>
>>  New plugs and wires recently.
>>
>>  Until this happened, it always cranked solidly.
>>
>>  Any ideas? Would the DIS be bad? Ignition switch on its way out? Fuel
>>  injection concerns? I want to pull the timing belt cover to verify the
>belts
>>  OK.
>>
>>  Thanks in advance!
>>
>>  Jim Koper
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