[Shotimes] Pontiac unveils SHO successor?

[Donald Mallinson]

Dave,

You haven't been paying attention.  :)

weight transfer has virtually ZERO effect in slick 
conditions.  There isn't enough acceleration to make a 
difference.

A spinning front wheel (in fWD) can still effect direction 
and pull its way out.

A sliding front tire on a RWD vehicle will continue to plow 
straight as the tires quite frequently just quit turning period!

As for the snow shoe thing, that was to point out that just 
sinking into the snow isn't always the best thing.

Once a tire sinks enough to dig in the sidewall and tread, 
sinking in deeper doesn't help traction.

All vehicles are heavy enough to compact the snow, dig in 
and utilize the tread available.  Friction between snow/ice 
and the tire just doesn't increase with weight.  HEck even 
in the dry in the summer, WEIGHT is your enemy.

What are the fastest cars on the planet?  The lightest cars 
is the answer.  Lotus outperforms Corvette or BMW with less 
power because WEIGHT is the enemy of change of direction and 
change of speed.

If additional weight really added to handling power and 
traction, then a 7000 pound SUV with the same power as a top 
fuel rail at about what?  1000 pounds?  Would win the race, 
but it isn't about weight on the tread patch, it is about 
inertia.

All you folks touting extra weight to increase 
friction,....the above should finally get you to see the light.

Oh, and I drive in 5" or more of snow usually 3-10 times a 
year here in Illinois.  And yes, we have snow plows, very 
good ones, that get out, but still, I seem to find 
(sometimes I search out) deep snow, or have to drive in it 
when snow hits and before the plows can get to every road, 
or between plowings.

Oh, and "getting down to the pavement".  REally, if it is 
snowing enough that you worry about traction, you aren't 
"getting to the pavement" by adding more weight.  You are 
just compacting the snow on top of the pavement.  Maybe if 
you spin the tires, you will eventually get to the pavement. 
  IN Minnesota, they hardly ever find the pavement once the 
snow starts.  They just clean to a smooth surface, leaving a 
layer of snow.  No amount of weight will get to the 
"pavement" in that situation.

again, adding weight is not going to help winter driving, 
any more than it helps summer driving.

Don Mallinson

Dave Garber wrote:

> I'm gonna have to disagree with ya on that one Don. How is it 'easier' 
> to pull something vs push? How exactly do the tires and engine know 
> whether they are pulling something rather than pushing it? The physics 
> of weight transfer would seem to contradict what you are saying, and 
> that weight transfer is the only thing where front vs rear comes into 
> play advantage-wise. And that advantage clearly goes to RWD.
> 
> Fact is, you are saying that weight has little to no effect on how well 
> a tire can go through the snow. That being the case, how in the world 
> would there EVER be a valid argument that FWD is better than RWD in the 
> snow? It makes absolutely no sense. By your logic, my case that RWD is 
> better is strengthened! You've negated the weight 'advantage' over the 
> tire on a FWD. On top of that, any time you spin the front tires, you 
> also lose the ability to steer. With RWD, this isn't a problem. Seems 
> pretty obvious to me that RWD has a distinct advantage here if for no 
> other reason than having the ability to steer!
> 
> You also mentioned that having a wide-area of contact (ala snow shoes) 
> is a bonus so as to work on top of the snow. But, that simply doesn't 
> apply to cars. Yes, snow shoes are good for PEOPLE who don't wish to 
> sink 3-5-whatever inches with every step, but for cars, getting through 
> the snow and down to the pavement is infinitely better than driving on 
> 'top' of the snow. Extra weight and a smaller contact profile (as in, 
> skinnier tires) are the best formula, along with deep lugs in the tread, 
> to get through the snow. Wide tires and low weight are a formula for low 
> traction. Of course, I'm talking about real-world conditions folks are 
> likely to come across while driving in the winter. I doubt too many 
> people on this list are likely to be driving through 5 inches or more of 
> snow!
> 
> 
> Dave Garber