From emazurek at cisco.com  Tue Jul 22 08:28:14 2008
From: emazurek at cisco.com (Edward Mazurek)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:28:14 -0400
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
Message-ID: <4885EE7E.3070407@cisco.com>

Hi,

My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
again for a while.

I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 185K on
it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including replacing
the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or the coil
pack at this point so they are original.

What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?

Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?

Thanks in advance for any help.

One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable overall.
Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.

Thanks!

Ed Mazurek

From greensho at crown.net  Tue Jul 22 09:26:13 2008
From: greensho at crown.net (James White)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:26:13 -0500
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
Message-ID: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.121674055828622@www.crown.net>

Classic crank sensor failure.  

Replace the waterpump at the same time.

regards, Jim White
(still not on the new list)
'95MTX - 270k


At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>again for a while.
>
>I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 185K on
>it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including replacing
>the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or 
the coil
>pack at this point so they are original.
>
>What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>
>Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable overall.
>Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Ed Mazurek
>_______________________________________________
>Shotimes mailing list
>Shotimes at autox.team.net
>http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From emazurek at cisco.com  Tue Jul 22 09:59:40 2008
From: emazurek at cisco.com (Edward Mazurek)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:59:40 -0400
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.121674055828622@www.crown.net>
References: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.121674055828622@www.crown.net>
Message-ID: <488603EC.4020000@cisco.com>

Hi James,

Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!

Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor failure?

Any chance it's the DIS???? :)

Thanks,

Ed

James White wrote:
> Classic crank sensor failure.  
> 
> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
> 
> regards, Jim White
> (still not on the new list)
> '95MTX - 270k
> 
> 
> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>> again for a while.
>>
>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 185K on
>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including replacing
>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or 
> the coil
>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>
>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>
>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>
>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable overall.
>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Ed Mazurek
>> _______________________________________________
>> Shotimes mailing list
>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From jdiener at rosettastone.com  Tue Jul 22 10:14:13 2008
From: jdiener at rosettastone.com (Jonas Diener)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:14:13 -0400
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <488603EC.4020000@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>

Seems like it could be the DIS module.

The next time it fails, you can do a test to determine if it's a problem
with ignition or fuel delivery.

When it's in it's failure state, pull one of the ignition wires off it's
plug, and insert a metal key into the end of the wire.  Rest the key so it's
near the metal intake, but not touching it.  Then have someone crank the
engine while you watch the key closely.

If you see a spark jumping from the key to the metal intake, then the
ignition system is doing it's thing and firing the plugs.

You can also check for fuel pressure by sticking your key into the schrader
valve on the fuel rail.  Do this with the ignition in the "run" position.
If fuel sprays out, then you have fuel pressure.

(Do the spark test first.  If you do the fuel test first, the ignition spark
might ignite any fuel that has sprayed out.)


On 7/22/08 11:59, "Edward Mazurek" <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi James,
> 
> Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
> I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
> 
> Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor failure?
> 
> Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed
> 
> James White wrote:
>> Classic crank sensor failure.
>> 
>> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
>> 
>> regards, Jim White
>> (still not on the new list)
>> '95MTX - 270k
>> 
>> 
>> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>>> again for a while.
>>> 
>>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 185K on
>>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including replacing
>>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or
>> the coil
>>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>> 
>>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>> 
>>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>> 
>>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable overall.
>>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Ed Mazurek
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
> _______________________________________________
> Shotimes mailing list
> Shotimes at autox.team.net
> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From emazurek at cisco.com  Tue Jul 22 10:56:34 2008
From: emazurek at cisco.com (Edward Mazurek)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:56:34 -0400
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
References: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
Message-ID: <48861142.1090700@cisco.com>

Hi Jonas,

Yes thanks. The problem is the hood only has to be open for a minute or
two and the car will start. That's why I was thinking it maybe is the DIS
since the crank sensor is buried and wouldn't cool that quickly.

Anyone knows if DISs are available from Advance or AZ?

Thanks,

Ed

Jonas Diener wrote:
> Seems like it could be the DIS module.
> 
> The next time it fails, you can do a test to determine if it's a problem
> with ignition or fuel delivery.
> 
> When it's in it's failure state, pull one of the ignition wires off it's
> plug, and insert a metal key into the end of the wire.  Rest the key so it's
> near the metal intake, but not touching it.  Then have someone crank the
> engine while you watch the key closely.
> 
> If you see a spark jumping from the key to the metal intake, then the
> ignition system is doing it's thing and firing the plugs.
> 
> You can also check for fuel pressure by sticking your key into the schrader
> valve on the fuel rail.  Do this with the ignition in the "run" position.
> If fuel sprays out, then you have fuel pressure.
> 
> (Do the spark test first.  If you do the fuel test first, the ignition spark
> might ignite any fuel that has sprayed out.)
> 
> 
> On 7/22/08 11:59, "Edward Mazurek" <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi James,
>>
>> Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
>> I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
>>
>> Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor failure?
>>
>> Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> James White wrote:
>>> Classic crank sensor failure.
>>>
>>> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
>>>
>>> regards, Jim White
>>> (still not on the new list)
>>> '95MTX - 270k
>>>
>>>
>>> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>>>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>>>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>>>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>>>> again for a while.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 185K on
>>>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including replacing
>>>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or
>>> the coil
>>>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>>>
>>>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>>>
>>>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>>
>>>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable overall.
>>>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>>>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Ed Mazurek
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>> _______________________________________________
>> Shotimes mailing list
>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From shotimes at jonheese.com  Tue Jul 22 11:03:38 2008
From: shotimes at jonheese.com (Jon Heese)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:03:38 -0500
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <48861142.1090700@cisco.com>
References: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
	<48861142.1090700@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <488612EA.8000003@jonheese.com>

Yup, they're available, but they're not cheap:

Looks like $211 at Advance and $129 (possibly dependent on your zip
code) at Autozone:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=194&PTSet=A
http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,77346/initialAction,partTypeResultSet/initialN,16200029/initialNtt,/initialNo,/shopping/selectZip.htm

Alternatively, there are a couple on eBay right now for $17.99+shipping
and $49.99+shipping, respectively:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE-3-0-3-2-89-90-92-93-95_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ310068195277
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THUNDERBIRD-SUPERCOUPE-TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ250263329641

Both are used, but that would be the way I'd go if I were you...

Regards,
Jon Heese

Edward Mazurek wrote:
> Hi Jonas,
> 
> Yes thanks. The problem is the hood only has to be open for a minute or
> two and the car will start. That's why I was thinking it maybe is the DIS
> since the crank sensor is buried and wouldn't cool that quickly.
> 
> Anyone knows if DISs are available from Advance or AZ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed
> 
> Jonas Diener wrote:
>> Seems like it could be the DIS module.
>>
>> The next time it fails, you can do a test to determine if it's a problem
>> with ignition or fuel delivery.
>>
>> When it's in it's failure state, pull one of the ignition wires off it's
>> plug, and insert a metal key into the end of the wire.  Rest the key so it's
>> near the metal intake, but not touching it.  Then have someone crank the
>> engine while you watch the key closely.
>>
>> If you see a spark jumping from the key to the metal intake, then the
>> ignition system is doing it's thing and firing the plugs.
>>
>> You can also check for fuel pressure by sticking your key into the schrader
>> valve on the fuel rail.  Do this with the ignition in the "run" position.
>> If fuel sprays out, then you have fuel pressure.
>>
>> (Do the spark test first.  If you do the fuel test first, the ignition spark
>> might ignite any fuel that has sprayed out.)
>>
>>
>> On 7/22/08 11:59, "Edward Mazurek" <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi James,
>>>
>>> Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
>>> I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
>>>
>>> Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor failure?
>>>
>>> Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> James White wrote:
>>>> Classic crank sensor failure.
>>>>
>>>> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
>>>>
>>>> regards, Jim White
>>>> (still not on the new list)
>>>> '95MTX - 270k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>>>>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>>>>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>>>>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>>>>> again for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 185K on
>>>>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including replacing
>>>>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or
>>>> the coil
>>>>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>>>>
>>>>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>>>
>>>>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable overall.
>>>>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>>>>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Mazurek
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
> _______________________________________________
> Shotimes mailing list
> Shotimes at autox.team.net
> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From emazurek at cisco.com  Tue Jul 22 11:27:52 2008
From: emazurek at cisco.com (Edward Mazurek)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:27:52 -0400
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <48861277.9060606@jonheese.com>
References: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
	<48861142.1090700@cisco.com> <48861277.9060606@jonheese.com>
Message-ID: <48861898.1090701@cisco.com>

Thanks Jon... I didn't even think about ebay.

I was leary of the 17.90 one since it came from an 89. I put a
best offer bid on the other one.

We'll see what happens.

Thanks,

Ed

Jon Heese wrote:
> Yup, they're available, but they're not cheap:
> 
> Looks like $211 at Advance and $129 (possibly dependent on your zip 
> code) at Autozone:
> http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=194&PTSet=A
> http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,77346/initialAction,partTypeResultSet/initialN,16200029/initialNtt,/initialNo,/shopping/selectZip.htm 
> 
> 
> Alternatively, there are a couple on eBay right now for $17.99+shipping 
> and $49.99+shipping, respectively:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE-3-0-3-2-89-90-92-93-95_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ310068195277 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THUNDERBIRD-SUPERCOUPE-TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ250263329641 
> 
> 
> Both are used, but that would be the way I'd go if I were you...
> 
> Regards,
> Jon Heese
> 
> Edward Mazurek wrote:
>> Hi Jonas,
>>
>> Yes thanks. The problem is the hood only has to be open for a minute or
>> two and the car will start. That's why I was thinking it maybe is the DIS
>> since the crank sensor is buried and wouldn't cool that quickly.
>>
>> Anyone knows if DISs are available from Advance or AZ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Jonas Diener wrote:
>>> Seems like it could be the DIS module.
>>>
>>> The next time it fails, you can do a test to determine if it's a problem
>>> with ignition or fuel delivery.
>>>
>>> When it's in it's failure state, pull one of the ignition wires off it's
>>> plug, and insert a metal key into the end of the wire.  Rest the key 
>>> so it's
>>> near the metal intake, but not touching it.  Then have someone crank the
>>> engine while you watch the key closely.
>>>
>>> If you see a spark jumping from the key to the metal intake, then the
>>> ignition system is doing it's thing and firing the plugs.
>>>
>>> You can also check for fuel pressure by sticking your key into the 
>>> schrader
>>> valve on the fuel rail.  Do this with the ignition in the "run" 
>>> position.
>>> If fuel sprays out, then you have fuel pressure.
>>>
>>> (Do the spark test first.  If you do the fuel test first, the 
>>> ignition spark
>>> might ignite any fuel that has sprayed out.)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/22/08 11:59, "Edward Mazurek" <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>
>>>> Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
>>>> I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
>>>>
>>>> Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor failure?
>>>>
>>>> Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> James White wrote:
>>>>> Classic crank sensor failure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards, Jim White
>>>>> (still not on the new list)
>>>>> '95MTX - 270k
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>>>>>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>>>>>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>>>>>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>>>>>> again for a while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 185K on
>>>>>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including 
>>>>>> replacing
>>>>>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or
>>>>> the coil
>>>>>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable 
>>>>>> overall.
>>>>>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>>>>>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed Mazurek
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>>>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>>>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>> _______________________________________________
>> Shotimes mailing list
>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From shotimes at jonheese.com  Tue Jul 22 11:31:04 2008
From: shotimes at jonheese.com (Jon Heese)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:31:04 -0500
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <48861898.1090701@cisco.com>
References: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
	<48861142.1090700@cisco.com> <48861277.9060606@jonheese.com>
	<48861898.1090701@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <48861958.5000505@jonheese.com>

The DIS is identical for all '89-'95 SHOs, so unless you're just worried 
about the age of the part (and keep in mind that an '89 could easily 
have had its DIS replaced with a new one a year ago), the '89 DIS would 
work fine in your '95.

It's your choice though, of course. :)

Regards,
Jon Heese

Edward Mazurek wrote:
> Thanks Jon... I didn't even think about ebay.
> 
> I was leary of the 17.90 one since it came from an 89. I put a
> best offer bid on the other one.
> 
> We'll see what happens.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed
> 
> Jon Heese wrote:
>> Yup, they're available, but they're not cheap:
>>
>> Looks like $211 at Advance and $129 (possibly dependent on your zip 
>> code) at Autozone:
>> http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=194&PTSet=A
>> http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,77346/initialAction,partTypeResultSet/initialN,16200029/initialNtt,/initialNo,/shopping/selectZip.htm 
>>
>>
>> Alternatively, there are a couple on eBay right now for 
>> $17.99+shipping and $49.99+shipping, respectively:
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE-3-0-3-2-89-90-92-93-95_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ310068195277 
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THUNDERBIRD-SUPERCOUPE-TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ250263329641 
>>
>>
>> Both are used, but that would be the way I'd go if I were you...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jon Heese
>>
>> Edward Mazurek wrote:
>>> Hi Jonas,
>>>
>>> Yes thanks. The problem is the hood only has to be open for a minute or
>>> two and the car will start. That's why I was thinking it maybe is the 
>>> DIS
>>> since the crank sensor is buried and wouldn't cool that quickly.
>>>
>>> Anyone knows if DISs are available from Advance or AZ?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Jonas Diener wrote:
>>>> Seems like it could be the DIS module.
>>>>
>>>> The next time it fails, you can do a test to determine if it's a 
>>>> problem
>>>> with ignition or fuel delivery.
>>>>
>>>> When it's in it's failure state, pull one of the ignition wires off 
>>>> it's
>>>> plug, and insert a metal key into the end of the wire.  Rest the key 
>>>> so it's
>>>> near the metal intake, but not touching it.  Then have someone crank 
>>>> the
>>>> engine while you watch the key closely.
>>>>
>>>> If you see a spark jumping from the key to the metal intake, then the
>>>> ignition system is doing it's thing and firing the plugs.
>>>>
>>>> You can also check for fuel pressure by sticking your key into the 
>>>> schrader
>>>> valve on the fuel rail.  Do this with the ignition in the "run" 
>>>> position.
>>>> If fuel sprays out, then you have fuel pressure.
>>>>
>>>> (Do the spark test first.  If you do the fuel test first, the 
>>>> ignition spark
>>>> might ignite any fuel that has sprayed out.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/22/08 11:59, "Edward Mazurek" <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
>>>>> I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor failure?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>> James White wrote:
>>>>>> Classic crank sensor failure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards, Jim White
>>>>>> (still not on the new list)
>>>>>> '95MTX - 270k
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>>>>>>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>>>>>>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>>>>>>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>>>>>>> again for a while.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 
>>>>>>> 185K on
>>>>>>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including 
>>>>>>> replacing
>>>>>>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or
>>>>>> the coil
>>>>>>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable 
>>>>>>> overall.
>>>>>>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>>>>>>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed Mazurek
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>>>>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>>>>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From emazurek at cisco.com  Tue Jul 22 12:36:04 2008
From: emazurek at cisco.com (Edward Mazurek)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:36:04 -0400
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <48862705.7050105@cisco.com>
References: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
	<48861142.1090700@cisco.com> <48861277.9060606@jonheese.com>
	<48861898.1090701@cisco.com> <48861958.5000505@jonheese.com>
	<48862705.7050105@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <48862894.1080508@cisco.com>

OK, you convinced me... I got the $17.90 one. We'll see.

Thanks!

Ed

Jon Heese wrote:
 > The DIS is identical for all '89-'95 SHOs, so unless you're just worried about the age of the part (and keep in mind that an '89 could easily have had its DIS replaced with a new one a year ago), the '89 DIS would work fine in your '95.
 >
 > It's your choice though, of course. :)
 >
 > Regards,
 > Jon Heese

From shotimes at jonheese.com  Tue Jul 22 13:18:11 2008
From: shotimes at jonheese.com (Jon Heese)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:18:11 -0500
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <48862705.7050105@cisco.com>
References: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
	<48861142.1090700@cisco.com> <48861277.9060606@jonheese.com>
	<48861898.1090701@cisco.com> <48861958.5000505@jonheese.com>
	<48862705.7050105@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <48863273.80203@jonheese.com>

Well either "should" work, assuming that the cheaper one is in good
condition...

We're also kinda not really diagnosing this correctly either. :/

Regards,
Jon Heese

Edward Mazurek wrote:
> OK, you convinced me... I got the $17.90 one. We'll see.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ed
> 
> Jon Heese wrote:
>> The DIS is identical for all '89-'95 SHOs, so unless you're just 
>> worried about the age of the part (and keep in mind that an '89 could 
>> easily have had its DIS replaced with a new one a year ago), the '89 
>> DIS would work fine in your '95.
>>
>> It's your choice though, of course. :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jon Heese
>>
>> Edward Mazurek wrote:
>>> Thanks Jon... I didn't even think about ebay.
>>>
>>> I was leary of the 17.90 one since it came from an 89. I put a
>>> best offer bid on the other one.
>>>
>>> We'll see what happens.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Jon Heese wrote:
>>>> Yup, they're available, but they're not cheap:
>>>>
>>>> Looks like $211 at Advance and $129 (possibly dependent on your zip 
>>>> code) at Autozone:
>>>> http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=194&PTSet=A
>>>> http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,77346/initialAction,partTypeResultSet/initialN,16200029/initialNtt,/initialNo,/shopping/selectZip.htm 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, there are a couple on eBay right now for 
>>>> $17.99+shipping and $49.99+shipping, respectively:
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE-3-0-3-2-89-90-92-93-95_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ310068195277 
>>>>
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THUNDERBIRD-SUPERCOUPE-TAURUS-SHO-DIS-IGNITION-MODULE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ250263329641 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Both are used, but that would be the way I'd go if I were you...
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jon Heese
>>>>
>>>> Edward Mazurek wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jonas,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes thanks. The problem is the hood only has to be open for a 
>>>>> minute or
>>>>> two and the car will start. That's why I was thinking it maybe is 
>>>>> the DIS
>>>>> since the crank sensor is buried and wouldn't cool that quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone knows if DISs are available from Advance or AZ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonas Diener wrote:
>>>>>> Seems like it could be the DIS module.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The next time it fails, you can do a test to determine if it's a 
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> with ignition or fuel delivery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When it's in it's failure state, pull one of the ignition wires 
>>>>>> off it's
>>>>>> plug, and insert a metal key into the end of the wire.  Rest the 
>>>>>> key so it's
>>>>>> near the metal intake, but not touching it.  Then have someone 
>>>>>> crank the
>>>>>> engine while you watch the key closely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you see a spark jumping from the key to the metal intake, then the
>>>>>> ignition system is doing it's thing and firing the plugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can also check for fuel pressure by sticking your key into the 
>>>>>> schrader
>>>>>> valve on the fuel rail.  Do this with the ignition in the "run" 
>>>>>> position.
>>>>>> If fuel sprays out, then you have fuel pressure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Do the spark test first.  If you do the fuel test first, the 
>>>>>> ignition spark
>>>>>> might ignite any fuel that has sprayed out.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/22/08 11:59, "Edward Mazurek" <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
>>>>>>> I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor 
>>>>>>> failure?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,

From emazurek at cisco.com  Tue Jul 22 13:34:57 2008
From: emazurek at cisco.com (Edward Mazurek)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:34:57 -0400
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
In-Reply-To: <488631C8.9040303@jonheese.com>
References: <C4AB7F95.BB2B%jdiener@rosettastone.com>
	<48861142.1090700@cisco.com> <48861277.9060606@jonheese.com>
	<48861898.1090701@cisco.com> <48861958.5000505@jonheese.com>
	<48862705.7050105@cisco.com> <488631C8.9040303@jonheese.com>
Message-ID: <48863661.3080303@cisco.com>

Yeah I know but it's just so easy to replace. It seems like I always
start with the hardest thing first normally. I'm trying something
different this time!

I'm going to concentrate on making it home tonight. It's 100F here
so it's not a given. :)

Thanks,

Ed

Jon Heese wrote:
> Well either "should" work, assuming that the cheaper one is in good 
> condition...
> 
> We're also kinda not really diagnosing this correctly either. :/
> 
> Regards,
> Jon Heese

From greensho at crown.net  Tue Jul 22 21:34:49 2008
From: greensho at crown.net (James White)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:34:49 -0500
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
Message-ID: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.121678430911822@www.crown.net>

I in MANY miles of driving my SHOs, I have never had a DIS fail, 
but that is not to say that they don't.  I got one in the trunk along 
with several other vital parts, should something happen several miles 
from home.

regards, Jim White
'95MTX - 270k


At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:

>Hi James,
>
>Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
>I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
>
>Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor failure?
>
>Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ed
>
>James White wrote:
>> Classic crank sensor failure.  
>> 
>> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
>> 
>> regards, Jim White
>> (still not on the new list)
>> '95MTX - 270k
>> 
>> 
>> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>>> again for a while.
>>>
>>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 
185K on
>>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including 
replacing
>>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or 
>> the coil
>>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>>
>>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>>
>>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford part?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>
>>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable 
overall.
>>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done to it
>>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Ed Mazurek
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

From greensho at crown.net  Tue Jul 22 21:39:56 2008
From: greensho at crown.net (James White)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:39:56 -0500
Subject: [Shotimes] 95 MTX failing in high heat
Message-ID: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.121678457412305@www.crown.net>

Russ McCoy deals in used SHO parts.  Think that his website is www.
rcmauotparts.com.

He is usually good to do business with.

regards, Jim White
'95MTX - 270k


At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:

>Hi Jonas,
>
>Yes thanks. The problem is the hood only has to be open for a minute or
>two and the car will start. That's why I was thinking it maybe is 
the DIS
>since the crank sensor is buried and wouldn't cool that quickly.
>
>Anyone knows if DISs are available from Advance or AZ?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ed
>
>Jonas Diener wrote:
>> Seems like it could be the DIS module.
>> 
>> The next time it fails, you can do a test to determine if it's 
a problem
>> with ignition or fuel delivery.
>> 
>> When it's in it's failure state, pull one of the ignition wires 
off it's
>> plug, and insert a metal key into the end of the wire.  Rest the 
key so it's
>> near the metal intake, but not touching it.  Then have someone 
crank the
>> engine while you watch the key closely.
>> 
>> If you see a spark jumping from the key to the metal intake, then the
>> ignition system is doing it's thing and firing the plugs.
>> 
>> You can also check for fuel pressure by sticking your key into 
the schrader
>> valve on the fuel rail.  Do this with the ignition in the "run" 
position.
>> If fuel sprays out, then you have fuel pressure.
>> 
>> (Do the spark test first.  If you do the fuel test first, the 
ignition spark
>> might ignite any fuel that has sprayed out.)
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/22/08 11:59, "Edward Mazurek" <emazurek at cisco.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi James,
>>>
>>> Since I had already replaced the crank sensor and the water pump
>>> I was really hoping it wasn't that. The DIS is just so accessible!
>>>
>>> Would you know what code I would expect for the crank sensor 
failure?
>>>
>>> Any chance it's the DIS???? :)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> James White wrote:
>>>> Classic crank sensor failure.
>>>>
>>>> Replace the waterpump at the same time.
>>>>
>>>> regards, Jim White
>>>> (still not on the new list)
>>>> '95MTX - 270k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At Tuesday, 22 July 2008, Edward Mazurek <emazurek at cisco.com> 
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> My 95 MTX just started failing when it's hot outside. It was 100F
>>>>> here yesterday and once I got off the highway the engine starts
>>>>> stumbling and then dies. It cranks then but won't start. If I open
>>>>> the hood, even just for a minute or two, it starts and will run
>>>>> again for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't run the codes yet but I'm thinking DIS. The car has 
185K on
>>>>> it and at around 120K I did all the 60K maintenance including 
replacing
>>>>> the cranks sensor and cam sensor. I haven't replaced the DIS or
>>>> the coil
>>>>> pack at this point so they are original.
>>>>>
>>>>> What codes would I expect if the DIS was failing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are those available at advance or autozone or do I need a Ford 
part?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>>>
>>>>> One interesting point is that this car has been very reliable 
overall.
>>>>> Even the AC is still factory cold and the only thing I've done 
to it
>>>>> is remove a clutch shim a year or two ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Mazurek
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>> Shotimes at autox.team.net
>>> http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>_______________________________________________
>Shotimes mailing list
>Shotimes at autox.team.net
>http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes