From randya at pacbell.net Mon Jun 3 00:20:04 2019 From: randya at pacbell.net (Randall Antosiak) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 06:20:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Slightly off subject, but very cool References: <1304536442.5146837.1559542804870.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1304536442.5146837.1559542804870@mail.yahoo.com> In case you have not heard, there is a new "action biographical" movie coming out in Nov named "Ford v. Ferrari."? It's the story of the Ford Motor Company efforts to beat Ferrari at the 1966 LeMans.? Sunbeam Tiger fans will recognize the lead characters, Carroll Shelby (portrayed by Matt Damon) and Ken Miles (portrayed by Christian Bale).? I can't wait!? :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Mon Jun 3 07:35:38 2019 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary Winblad) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 06:35:38 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Slightly off subject, but very cool In-Reply-To: <1304536442.5146837.1559542804870@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1304536442.5146837.1559542804870.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1304536442.5146837.1559542804870@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The trailer is great: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=3asRWZaGCQk Can't wait to see it! Gary On 6/2/2019 11:20 PM, Randall Antosiak via Tigers wrote: > In case you have not heard, there is a new "action biographical" movie > coming out in Nov named "Ford v. Ferrari."? It's the story of the Ford > Motor Company efforts to beat Ferrari at the 1966 LeMans.? Sunbeam > Tiger fans will recognize the lead characters, Carroll Shelby > (portrayed by Matt Damon) and Ken Miles (portrayed by Christian > Bale).? I can't wait!? :) > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > From sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com Mon Jun 3 10:33:19 2019 From: sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com (David Sosna) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:33:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Slightly off subject, but very cool In-Reply-To: References: <1304536442.5146837.1559542804870.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1304536442.5146837.1559542804870@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b78c4d8-51c3-6d32-9023-52bf959b2ac5@gmail.com> Thanks, guys--this looks great! I hadn't any idea it was in the works. Best Regards David Sosna On 6/3/19 6:35 AM, Gary Winblad via Tigers wrote: > The trailer is great: > > > > https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=3asRWZaGCQk > > > Can't wait to see it! > Gary > > > On 6/2/2019 11:20 PM, Randall Antosiak via Tigers wrote: >> In case you have not heard, there is a new "action biographical" >> movie coming out in Nov named "Ford v. Ferrari."? It's the story of >> the Ford Motor Company efforts to beat Ferrari at the 1966 LeMans.? >> Sunbeam Tiger fans will recognize the lead characters, Carroll Shelby >> (portrayed by Matt Damon) and Ken Miles (portrayed by Christian >> Bale).? I can't wait!? :) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net > > From wrightsinseabrook at icloud.com Wed Jun 5 16:04:15 2019 From: wrightsinseabrook at icloud.com (Lawrence Wright) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 18:04:15 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Driven Message-ID: <024041E8-0AC0-4ECC-A8A1-E8BABAA7138E@icloud.com> Anyone else reading Rosemary Smiths autobiography ?Driven?? I just finished it, bought off Amazon for about $13 or so. Some Tiger content. Sent from my iPad From blance598 at gmail.com Wed Jun 5 17:03:06 2019 From: blance598 at gmail.com (Lance Beauchamp) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 19:03:06 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Rear springs Message-ID: Just got my rear springs back and was told I could use new centering pins, where does one buy these beauties? One is still ok but the other is history, and while on a roll here what is recommended, original traction bars or none at all? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at cthompson.net Wed Jun 5 18:53:12 2019 From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 20:53:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Driven In-Reply-To: <024041E8-0AC0-4ECC-A8A1-E8BABAA7138E@icloud.com> References: <024041E8-0AC0-4ECC-A8A1-E8BABAA7138E@icloud.com> Message-ID: <4d9fb82e-20d7-b771-0ca8-a0e6ac0e3a69@cthompson.net> Hadn't heard of it. Just bought a copy - thanks.... On 6/5/2019 6:04 PM, Lawrence Wright via Tigers wrote: > Anyone else reading Rosemary Smiths autobiography ?Driven?? I just finished it, bought off Amazon for about $13 or so. Some Tiger content. > > Sent from my iPad > > > From mwood24020 at aol.com Wed Jun 5 18:55:58 2019 From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 00:55:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Rear springs References: <1229391958.568313.1559782558329.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1229391958.568313.1559782558329@mail.yahoo.com> What springs? (OEM or aftermarket, for starts). On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 Lance Beauchamp via Tigers wrote: Just got my rear springs back and was told I could use new centering pins, where does one buy these beauties? One is still ok but the other is history, and while on a roll here what is recommended, original traction bars or none at all?_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Wed Jun 5 19:03:03 2019 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 19:03:03 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Driven In-Reply-To: <4d9fb82e-20d7-b771-0ca8-a0e6ac0e3a69@cthompson.net> References: <024041E8-0AC0-4ECC-A8A1-E8BABAA7138E@icloud.com> <4d9fb82e-20d7-b771-0ca8-a0e6ac0e3a69@cthompson.net> Message-ID: <2877bef2-cf5a-7514-0716-e93e0b43c082@bradakis.com> Personally I am really looking forward to the movie Ford v Ferrari mjb. From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 16:43:27 2019 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 17:43:27 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Alternator Conversion Message-ID: I would like to talk to somebody who has replaced their generator with a PowerMaster PowerGen. I have some questions about hooking it up and what to do with the wires at the "control box". Thanks, Joe Brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sabre2tgr at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 19:37:06 2019 From: sabre2tgr at gmail.com (Stu) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 21:37:06 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Defogger vents Message-ID: With the windshield and old dash pad removed, I got a good look at the defogger vents. First time since I owned it, 1977. I'm not sure what to call the thing that transitions from the round tube to the slot in the dash top, the "spreader"? Anyway, the one on the passenger side appeared to be aligned properly, the opening in the spreader aligned with the slot in the dash sheet metal. But the one on the drivers side was misaligned, almost completely blocked! A little screw driver work opened it up a bit so it should work better in the future. You learn something ever time you fool around with these things! Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jefferyrandall at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 19:51:20 2019 From: jefferyrandall at gmail.com (Jeffery Randall) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 21:51:20 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Defogger vents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A defuser. On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 9:37 PM Stu via Tigers wrote: > With the windshield and old dash pad removed, I got a good look at the > defogger vents. First time since I owned it, 1977. > > I'm not sure what to call the thing that transitions from the round tube > to the slot in the dash top, the "spreader"? Anyway, the one on the > passenger side appeared to be aligned properly, the opening in the spreader > aligned with the slot in the dash sheet metal. But the one on the drivers > side was misaligned, almost completely blocked! A little screw driver work > opened it up a bit so it should work better in the future. > > You learn something ever time you fool around with these things! > > Stu > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jefferyrandall at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From achd73 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 21:02:53 2019 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Lang) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 03:02:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Defogger vents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <871860411.966478.1560222173984@mail.yahoo.com> That is a fact, each and EVERYTIME!!! Tony Lang (TtT) On ?Monday?, ?June? ?10?, ?2019? ?08?:?37?:?53? ?PM? ?CDT, Stu via Tigers wrote: With the windshield and old dash pad removed, I got a good look at the defogger vents.? First time since I owned it, 1977.?? I'm not sure what to call the thing that transitions from the round tube to the slot in the dash top, the "spreader"?? Anyway, the one on the passenger side appeared to be aligned properly, the opening in the spreader aligned with the slot in the dash sheet metal. But the one on the drivers side was misaligned, almost completely blocked!? A little screw driver work opened it up a bit so it should work better in the future. You learn something ever time you fool around with these things! Stu??_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/achd73 at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cliffomorgan at gmail.com Tue Jun 11 13:13:06 2019 From: cliffomorgan at gmail.com (Cliff Morgan) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:13:06 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Alternator Conversion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joe, Here are some photos of the Powergen in my Tiger. Power gen comes in different sizes and locations where the wires hook up. I don't have my model number but can get it if you want it. Notice the unit fits the original generator bracket with some spacers. Wiring is simple since the regulator is internal. 1 10 gauge to battery or starter and a ground wire. Need a voltage gauge as well. Don't know if an amp gauge will work or how to set that up. Cliff On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 4:43 PM Joe Brown via Tigers wrote: > I would like to talk to somebody who has replaced their generator with a > PowerMaster PowerGen. I have some questions about hooking it up and what > to do with the wires at the "control box". > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/cliffomorgan at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ALT2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 328360 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ALT3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 222341 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sabre2tgr at gmail.com Sat Jun 15 14:10:36 2019 From: sabre2tgr at gmail.com (Stu) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 16:10:36 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Windshield/Dash top frustration Message-ID: I'm trying to fit a new dash top and all new windshield rubber. The dash top is in, and I just tried a trial fit of the windshield frame with the gasket in place. It appears that there will be a gap between the gasket and the car body, even when everything is tightened down. The gasket and dash pad are from SS. So, the questions: Should the windshield frame be sitting on top of the SS dash pad? It is is thicker at the front than the original that I removed. Has anyone cut the SS dash top back so that the windshield frame gasket sits directly on the body? And the ends of the dash top seem too thick, also holding the windshield frame up.. Has anyone done some mods to this area? Hopes of getting the car ready for British Car Day next weekend seem to be dimming. Or am I just missing something obvious? Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfraser at bluefrog.com Sat Jun 15 15:35:34 2019 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 17:35:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Windshield/Dash top frustration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000701d523c2$49222620$db667260$@bluefrog.com> Stu Seems to me there was a chalk seal between the gasket and the dash pad, body metal I used Mortite, Weatherstrip and Caulking cord ? it seemed similar to what I saw there upon removal. Its been way to long to remember any other details of this assembly. Hope others have more details for you. Ron Fraser From: Tigers On Behalf Of Stu via Tigers Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 4:11 PM To: Tiger Net Subject: [Tigers] Windshield/Dash top frustration I'm trying to fit a new dash top and all new windshield rubber. The dash top is in, and I just tried a trial fit of the windshield frame with the gasket in place. It appears that there will be a gap between the gasket and the car body, even when everything is tightened down. The gasket and dash pad are from SS. So, the questions: Should the windshield frame be sitting on top of the SS dash pad? It is is thicker at the front than the original that I removed. Has anyone cut the SS dash top back so that the windshield frame gasket sits directly on the body? And the ends of the dash top seem too thick, also holding the windshield frame up.. Has anyone done some mods to this area? Hopes of getting the car ready for British Car Day next weekend seem to be dimming. Or am I just missing something obvious? Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sabre2tgr at gmail.com Sun Jun 16 17:22:30 2019 From: sabre2tgr at gmail.com (Stu) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 19:22:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Windshield/Dash continued Message-ID: Thanks for the comments, guys. No progress today, an excursion to Cape Cod and Father's day stuff. I'll have some things to look at for evenings this week. I have the SS angle adjusters and a deep socket ready to sacrifice for the project. Ron: I don't think the sealer is intended to fill gaps as large as what I have now. The old rubber touched the body, the new should too. Rick H. : I have a box of 3M strip Caulk to seal things up One interesting finding. Comparing the cross section of the original and the SS frame to body gasket, they are virtual duplicates. But I did notice that the rear of the windshield frame was sitting exactly on top of the tubular section of the old gasket. Not just in one place, it was precisely centered on the tube for the entire length. The SS instructions seem to indicate the tube should be completely on the inside. Am I reading it wrong? Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Mon Jun 17 14:05:18 2019 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 15:05:18 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Wiring Question Message-ID: Hey, I'm hooking up a PowerGen alternator and my wiring harness has two ground wires (actually three) that come out at the alternator. One ring terminal has a single wire and it fits on the ground terminal of the alternator. The other ring terminal has two wires and a much larger ring terminal. Any idea where this is supposed to attach? [image: image.png] FYI, I'm going to add additional wires to be able to carry the increased current of the new alternator. Thanks, Joe Brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 364230 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tigers at embarqmail.com Mon Jun 17 15:52:53 2019 From: Tigers at embarqmail.com (Will Seay) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:52:53 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Wiring Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe, The ring terminal is a chassis ground. It shares a mounting bolt with the ignition ballast resistor mount. Will - 382001570 Tigers at embarqmail.com On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:05 PM Joe Brown via Tigers wrote: > Hey, > > I'm hooking up a PowerGen alternator and my wiring harness has two ground > wires (actually three) that come out at the alternator. One ring terminal > has a single wire and it fits on the ground terminal of the alternator. > The other ring terminal has two wires and a much larger ring terminal. Any > idea where this is supposed to attach? > [image: image.png] > > FYI, I'm going to add additional wires to be able to carry the increased > current of the new alternator. > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 364230 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Mon Jun 17 16:02:49 2019 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:02:49 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Wiring Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Which ring terminal? The big one? On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:53 PM Will Seay wrote: > Joe, > > The ring terminal is a chassis ground. It shares a mounting bolt with the > ignition ballast resistor mount. > > Will - 382001570 > Tigers at embarqmail.com > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:05 PM Joe Brown via Tigers < > tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > >> Hey, >> >> I'm hooking up a PowerGen alternator and my wiring harness has two ground >> wires (actually three) that come out at the alternator. One ring terminal >> has a single wire and it fits on the ground terminal of the alternator. >> The other ring terminal has two wires and a much larger ring terminal. Any >> idea where this is supposed to attach? >> [image: image.png] >> >> FYI, I'm going to add additional wires to be able to carry the increased >> current of the new alternator. >> >> Thanks, >> Joe Brown >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 364230 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sabre2tgr at gmail.com Mon Jun 17 18:18:02 2019 From: sabre2tgr at gmail.com (Stu) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 20:18:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Windshield/Dash photos Message-ID: Here's some photos of how it stands as of tonight. I've been trying to use an old cheap camera rather than my pricey pieces, so they aren't the best. I haven't trimmed the dash pad yet. Passenger side. This is as far as it will go down. [image: SDC10331.jpg] Out of focus view of the center, but you get the idea. [image: SDC10330.jpg] Inside center. The tubular section of the gasket is completely inside of the rear of the frame [image: SDC10334.jpg] Here's a section of the old gasket. The tubular section is crushed down and you can make out the groove left by the rear of the windshield frame. [image: SDC10332.jpg] Tonight I'll pull the dash pad off and investigate thinning the leading edge and the ends some. I'm not sure where to go from there. Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SDC10331.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 968575 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SDC10330.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 988965 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SDC10334.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 906268 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SDC10332.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 781926 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tsmit at shaw.ca Mon Jun 17 19:39:27 2019 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Wiring Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe, I can?t give you a good answer on where the stock wires would go, but if you?re upgrading the main output wire for the alternator then I would suggest running a 6 gauge wire from the alternator output directly to the non-switched side of the starter solenoid (the side where the battery cable is connected). You should not use an ammeter to monitor your new alt because it would require you to run that large cable across the dash and back, and also because even a slight loosening of the connections at the ammeter would result in severe heating of the gauge and possibly cause a fire. Use a voltmeter instead. Your ground connection from the alternator needs to be just as good as the output connection. It is a good idea to run an equal sized wire from the alternator body to a good chassis ground. A final safety suggestion is to put a 100 amp rated fusible link or fuse inline with the alternator output, before it connects to anything else. That will save your wiring harness and your alternator if you should somehow short the main 12 volt circuit to ground. Cheers, Theo > On Jun 17, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Joe Brown via Tigers wrote: > > Which ring terminal? The big one? > >> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:53 PM Will Seay wrote: >> Joe, >> >> The ring terminal is a chassis ground. It shares a mounting bolt with the ignition ballast resistor mount. >> >> Will - 382001570 >> Tigers at embarqmail.com >> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:05 PM Joe Brown via Tigers wrote: >>> Hey, >>> >>> I'm hooking up a PowerGen alternator and my wiring harness has two ground wires (actually three) that come out at the alternator. One ring terminal has a single wire and it fits on the ground terminal of the alternator. The other ring terminal has two wires and a much larger ring terminal. Any idea where this is supposed to attach? >>> >>> >>> FYI, I'm going to add additional wires to be able to carry the increased current of the new alternator. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Joe Brown >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tsmit at shaw.ca > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 364230 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Mon Jun 17 19:47:06 2019 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 20:47:06 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Wiring Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Theo. On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 8:39 PM Theo Smit wrote: > Joe, > I can?t give you a good answer on where the stock wires would go, but if > you?re upgrading the main output wire for the alternator then I would > suggest running a 6 gauge wire from the alternator output directly to the > non-switched side of the starter solenoid (the side where the battery cable > is connected). > You should not use an ammeter to monitor your new alt because it would > require you to run that large cable across the dash and back, and also > because even a slight loosening of the connections at the ammeter would > result in severe heating of the gauge and possibly cause a fire. Use a > voltmeter instead. > Your ground connection from the alternator needs to be just as good as the > output connection. It is a good idea to run an equal sized wire from the > alternator body to a good chassis ground. > > A final safety suggestion is to put a 100 amp rated fusible link or fuse > inline with the alternator output, before it connects to anything else. > That will save your wiring harness and your alternator if you should > somehow short the main 12 volt circuit to ground. > > Cheers, > Theo > > On Jun 17, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Joe Brown via Tigers > wrote: > > Which ring terminal? The big one? > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:53 PM Will Seay wrote: > >> Joe, >> >> The ring terminal is a chassis ground. It shares a mounting bolt with >> the ignition ballast resistor mount. >> >> Will - 382001570 >> Tigers at embarqmail.com >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:05 PM Joe Brown via Tigers < >> tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: >> >>> Hey, >>> >>> I'm hooking up a PowerGen alternator and my wiring harness has two >>> ground wires (actually three) that come out at the alternator. One ring >>> terminal has a single wire and it fits on the ground terminal of the >>> alternator. The other ring terminal has two wires and a much larger ring >>> terminal. Any idea where this is supposed to attach? >>> [image: image.png] >>> >>> FYI, I'm going to add additional wires to be able to carry the increased >>> current of the new alternator. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Joe Brown >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >>> http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tsmit at shaw.ca > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 364230 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jmartiniii at yahoo.com Tue Jun 18 10:04:52 2019 From: jmartiniii at yahoo.com (Joel Martin) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:04:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Tiger_Overheating_=E2=80=93_Shotgun_Approach?= References: <798341470.2442086.1560873892977.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <798341470.2442086.1560873892977@mail.yahoo.com> After about a year of struggling with overheating at idlewith the hood down, I took drastic steps.?I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads withno chance of traffic lights. ? - Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. - Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick?alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. - Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black - Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. - Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. - Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. - Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. - Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. - Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. - New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. - New fan belt. - Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. - Installed 160 degree thermostat. So at this point I do not have a fanshroud ? unless make up a custom.? Otherchanges could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom ofradiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. Results as follows: Cold start with 86 degree ambientoutside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car in sun. 5 Minutes engine temperature 174degrees. 9 Minutes engine temperature 180degrees. 12 Minutes engine temperature 190degrees. 14 Minutes engine temperature 195degrees. 16 Minutes engine temperature 200degrees. Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s foranother 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees. Turn motor off and in a total of 27minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees. All this is recorded from temporarymechanical temperature gauge located under dash. The car temperature at any speed isat 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid90?s. Whew, maybe at last can enjoy carwith a couple of things still outstanding to be able to drive it out of townfor any distance.? The Tiger?s firstmajor outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC lastmonth in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at:? https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html? You might have to copy and paste link intoyour browser. Thank you all for putting up with allmy inane questions and comments over the years.? I am sure there will be more. Regards Joel Martin ? ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Tue Jun 18 10:41:10 2019 From: coolvt at aol.com (coolvt at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:41:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Tiger_Overheating_=E2=80=93_Shotgun_Approach?= In-Reply-To: <798341470.2442086.1560873892977@mail.yahoo.com> References: <798341470.2442086.1560873892977.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <798341470.2442086.1560873892977@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1759895744.2461713.1560876070952@mail.yahoo.com> I'm betting you have more than stock HP. Regardless, you mention that when you are moving car stays cool, but heats up when idling. This seems to indicate that if air is moving through radiator that you can stay cool.? You didn't mention installing an electric fan in front of the radiator.? This would give you moving air through the radiator even when idling. You can set up with one large fan or 2 smaller ones.? Get a sending unit that will turn them on whenever you want.....180 degrees, 190, etc.? Would also ask others what they have done to use the stock fan shroud with the Griffin radiator. I think people have found the solution for that.? Sounds like you have a solvable problem.Mark L.In a message dated 6/18/2019 12:08:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood down, I took drastic steps.? I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. ? - Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. - Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick?alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. - Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black - Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. - Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. - Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. - Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. - Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. - Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. - New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. - New fan belt. - Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. - Installed 160 degree thermostat. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.? Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. Results as follows: Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car in sun. 5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees. 9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees. 12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees. 14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees. 16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees. Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees. Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees. All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located under dash. The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s. Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to drive it out of town for any distance.? The Tiger?s first major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at:? https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html? You might have to copy and paste link into your browser. Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments over the years.? I am sure there will be more. Regards Joel Martin ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwittsend at verizon.net Tue Jun 18 11:40:05 2019 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:40:05 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Tiger_Overheating_=E2=80=93_Shotgun_Approach?= In-Reply-To: <798341470.2442086.1560873892977@mail.yahoo.com> References: <798341470.2442086.1560873892977.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <798341470.2442086.1560873892977@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50A67CB0E5D94FFFB40A0D27374F46EE@user1PC> I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on I can?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious (clogged radiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) there have been other causes of high temperature readings: 1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher than actual reading. 2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?s increase (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flow. A stainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this from a lawn sprinkler) prevents the collapse. The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation are helpful. I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section of the grill area and the radiator. My understanding of the air dam is that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air pressure to draw air from the engine compartment. I truly believe a shroud would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful. In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting to to do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going on under the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn openings and proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-meters might be informative too. Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hot coolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through the radiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or bad because it is less efficient than straight water. There are the people with a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those in cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement known to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues. In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving your now running cool Tiger. From: Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood down, I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. 1.. Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. 2.. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. 3.. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black 4.. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. 5.. Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. 6.. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. 7.. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. 8.. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. 9.. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. 10.. New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. 11.. New fan belt. 12.. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator. Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. 13.. Installed 160 degree thermostat. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. Results as follows: Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car in sun. 5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees. 9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees. 12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees. 14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees. 16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees. Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees. Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees. All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located under dash. The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s. Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to drive it out of town for any distance. The Tiger?s first major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at: https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html You might have to copy and paste link into your browser. Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments over the years. I am sure there will be more. Regards Joel Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmartiniii at yahoo.com Tue Jun 18 13:24:58 2019 From: jmartiniii at yahoo.com (Joel Martin) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:24:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2052555775.2532447.1560885898969@mail.yahoo.com> All Thanks for the responses.? I am personally PLEASED with the changes that I have made.? 16 minutes at idle to reach 200 degrees or 11 minutes to go from 174 when running to 200 degrees, I think is pretty good, at least based on my previous experience with idle temps rising.? This allows me to drive the car in most any and all conditions.? I guess from the responses you all do not think so - maybe I am missing something - would not be the first time.? I do live out in the country with around only 90K people in the county so not much city driving. The water pump upgrade was made more for reducing possible air cavitation or pockets of air than the higher flow of water. No restrictor in upper hose at this point - tried in the past and removed it - did not seem to make a difference. Running 50/50 green antifreeze and 16 psi cap.? Joel On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 2:01:11 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to ??? tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re:? Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt) I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on Ican?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious (cloggedradiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) there havebeen other causes of high temperature readings:?1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher thanactual reading.?2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?sincrease (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flow. Astainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this from a lawnsprinkler) prevents the collapse.?The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation arehelpful.? I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section ofthe grill area and the radiator.? My understanding of the air dam is thatit is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air pressureto draw air from the engine compartment.? I truly believe a shroud would bevery helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot air alreadyunder the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn externally. Asnoted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful.?In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting toto do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going onunder the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn openingsand proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-meters might beinformative too.?Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hotcoolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through theradiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or badbecause it is less efficient than straight water.? There are the peoplewith a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those incooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement known toTigerdom and they constantly have issues.?In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving yournow running cool Tiger.?From: Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AMTo: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? ShotgunApproach?After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hooddown, I took drastic steps.? I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. ? - Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. - Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick?alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. - Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black - Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. - Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. - Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. - Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. - Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. - Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. - New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. - New fan belt. - Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. - Installed 160 degree thermostat. So at this pointI do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.? Otherchanges could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom ofradiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out thissummer. Results asfollows: Cold start with86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car insun. 5 Minutes enginetemperature 174 degrees. 9 Minutes enginetemperature 180 degrees. 12 Minutesengine temperature 190 degrees. 14 Minutesengine temperature 195 degrees. 16 Minutesengine temperature 200 degrees. Run the motor at1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. Run the motor at2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees. Turn motor offand in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees. All this isrecorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located underdash. The cartemperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambienttemperature from 50?s to mid 90?s. Whew, maybe atlast can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to driveit out of town for any distance.? The Tiger?s first majorouting was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month inMay ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at:? https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html?You might have to copy and paste link into your browser. Thank you allfor putting up with all my inane questions and comments over the years.? Iam sure there will be more. Regards JoelMartin ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net | | Virus-free. www.avg.com | _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blueovalquack at yahoo.com Tue Jun 18 14:24:23 2019 From: blueovalquack at yahoo.com (TREVOR NEMETH) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 20:24:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <565877353.3312235.1560889463178@mail.yahoo.com> Re: Tiger overheating. You state that your fan is one inch from the radiator and that you are not using a fan shroud.. IMO without a shroud and that much space between fan and radiator, the air is not being pulled through the radiator at idle. Its just churning engine compartment air. All cars use shrouds to pull air through the whole radiator. Pusher fans in front of radiators only cool the area directly in front of the fan, the bigger the better, but they do help.? Put a propper shroud in place and you may have solved your problem.Good luck, Trevor Nemeth On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 11:01:26 AM PDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to ??? tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re:? Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:40:05 -0700 From: "Tom Witt" To: "Tiger List Serve" Subject: Re: [Tigers]? Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach Message-ID: <50A67CB0E5D94FFFB40A0D27374F46EE at user1PC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on I can?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious (clogged radiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) there have been other causes of high temperature readings: 1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher than actual reading. 2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?s increase (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flow. A stainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this from a lawn sprinkler) prevents the collapse. The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation are helpful.? I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section of the grill area and the radiator.? My understanding of the air dam is that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air pressure to draw air from the engine compartment.? I truly believe a shroud would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful. In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting to to do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going on under the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn openings and proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-meters might be informative too. Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hot coolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through the radiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or bad because it is less efficient than straight water.? There are the people with a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those in cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement known to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues. In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving your now running cool Tiger. From: Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood down, I took drastic steps.? I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. ? 1.. Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. ? 2.. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. ? 3.. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black ? 4.. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. ? 5.. Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. ? 6.. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. ? 7.. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. ? 8.. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. ? 9.. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. ? 10.. New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. ? 11.. New fan belt. ? 12.. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. ? 13.. Installed 160 degree thermostat. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.? Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. Results as follows: Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car in sun. 5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees. 9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees. 12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees. 14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees. 16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees. Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees. Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees. All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located under dash. The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s. Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to drive it out of town for any distance.? The Tiger?s first major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at:? https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html You might have to copy and paste link into your browser. Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments over the years.? I am sure there will be more. Regards Joel Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive ------------------------------ End of Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181 *************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at munroe.ca Thu Jun 20 08:54:27 2019 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:54:27 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181 In-Reply-To: <2052555775.2532447.1560885898969@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2052555775.2532447.1560885898969@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Joel; congratulations on getting your Tiger to run cool! I, like many other Tiger owners, have tramped down this overheating path for many years, and most of us have found the solution more or less in the same way you have done. In my personal search for Tiger temperature nirvana, I came across this very interesting article regarding 160F Thermostats. You might want to re-consider your choice of thermostats. HOTRODSRJ at AOL.COM In another specialty car I run regularly, I had a similar problem, and corrected it in a similar manner. However, on this car I installed an oil pan temperature gauge, and found it very difficult to get the engine oil up beyond 180F. which I have not been able to remedy. The water temperature is very steady on this vehicle at 195F, regardless of the load on the engine.No way is the engine oil ever going to reach 220 deg to boil off the H20 condensate in the crank case. Not sure what to do about this, besides changing the oil very frequently. Just some interesting info, FWIW. Cheers, Dave Munroe B382000450LRXFE On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 16:25, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > All > > Thanks for the responses. I am personally PLEASED with the changes that I > have made. 16 minutes at idle to reach 200 degrees or 11 minutes to go > from 174 when running to 200 degrees, I think is pretty good, at least > based on my previous experience with idle temps rising. This allows me to > drive the car in most any and all conditions. > > I guess from the responses you all do not think so - maybe I am missing > something - would not be the first time. I do live out in the country with > around only 90K people in the county so not much city driving. > > The water pump upgrade was made more for reducing possible air cavitation > or pockets of air than the higher flow of water. > > No restrictor in upper hose at this point - tried in the past and removed > it - did not seem to make a difference. > Running 50/50 green antifreeze and 16 psi cap. > > Joel > > > On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 2:01:11 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net < > tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote: > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > tigers at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tigers-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt) > I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on > I can?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious > (clogged radiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) > there have been other causes of high temperature readings: > > 1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the > voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher > than actual reading. > > 2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?s > increase (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches > flow. A stainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this > from a lawn sprinkler) prevents the collapse. > > The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation > are helpful. I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section > of the grill area and the radiator. My understanding of the air dam is > that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air > pressure to draw air from the engine compartment. I truly believe a shroud > would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot > air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn > externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful. > > In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting to > to do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going on > under the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn > openings and proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade > man-o-meters might be informative too. > > Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls > hot coolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through > the radiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or > bad because it is less efficient than straight water. There are the people > with a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the > engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those > in cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement > known to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues. > > In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving your > now running cool Tiger. > > *From:* Joel Martin via Tigers > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM > *To:* Tiger List Serve > *Subject:* [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach > > After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood > down, I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last > year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. > > > > 1. Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. > 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick > alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. > 3. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert > Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss > black > 4. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen < > dlutjen55 at gmail.com> scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. > 5. Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side > tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. > 6. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted > Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line > up. > 7. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from > radiator. > 8. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. > 9. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to > radiator hoses. > 10. New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit > taller radiator. > 11. New fan belt. > 12. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would > not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to > fit my taller radiator. Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi > gloss black ? sitting on shelf. > 13. Installed 160 degree thermostat. > > So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other > changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom > of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this > summer. > > Results as follows: > > Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood > closed, car in sun. > > 5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees. > > 9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees. > > 12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees. > > 14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees. > > 16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees. > > Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. > > Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 > degrees. > > Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is > 208 degrees. > > All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located > under dash. > > The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the > outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s. > > Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still > outstanding to be able to drive it out of town for any distance. The > Tiger?s first major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in > Pinehurst NC last month in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at: > https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html > You might have to copy and paste link into your browser. > > Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments over > the years. I am sure there will be more. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > > > > Virus-free. > www.avg.com > > <#m_-124025642808230083_m_4323123673852204704_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dave at munroe.ca > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.laifman at gmail.com Thu Jun 20 11:57:46 2019 From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay Laifman) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 10:57:46 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181 In-Reply-To: References: <2052555775.2532447.1560885898969@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Your email did not have a link to an article about 160* thermostats. But I did a quick search myself. I came up with a bunch of guys warning that 160* is too low, which makes the engine run too cold, and the oil not heat up enough. That's true by half. The other half is internet hogwash. The half that is right is that running too cold is bad. The half that is wrong is drawing a bright line on the thermostat. Sure, if you have an otherwise bone stock engine and pop in a different thermostat, you can create issues. But the heat of the engine is also impacted by the size of the radiator, the material of the radiator, whether or not the radiator is black, the water pump speed, and the pulley sizes. Water that runs too fast through the radiator doesn't have time to pull out heat from the water. Water that runs too fast through the engine, doesn't have time to pull out heat from the block. Water that runs too slow, doesn't pull the heat out of the engine fast enough. So changing any one part in that system effects the rest of the system. It could be because of OTHER changes, the engine now needs a 160* thermostat to flow the water at the right speed at the right time. Therefore, the test is how your engine is cooling. It is not if or if not you have a 160* thermostat. Off soap box. On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:55 AM Dave Munroe via Tigers < tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > Hi Joel; > > congratulations on getting your Tiger to run cool! > > I, like many other Tiger owners, have tramped down this overheating path > for many years, and most of us have found the solution more or less in the > same way you have done. > > In my personal search for Tiger temperature nirvana, I came across this > very interesting article regarding 160F Thermostats. > You might want to re-consider your choice of thermostats. > HOTRODSRJ at AOL.COM > > In another specialty car I run regularly, I had a similar problem, and > corrected it in a similar manner. However, on this car I installed an oil > pan temperature gauge, and found it very difficult to get the engine oil up > beyond 180F. which I have not been able to remedy. The water temperature is > very steady on this vehicle at 195F, regardless of the load on the > engine.No way is the engine oil ever going to reach 220 deg to boil off the > H20 condensate in the crank case. Not sure what to do about this, besides > changing the oil very frequently. > > Just some interesting info, FWIW. > > Cheers, > > Dave Munroe B382000450LRXFE > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 16:25, Joel Martin via Tigers < > tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > >> All >> >> Thanks for the responses. I am personally PLEASED with the changes that >> I have made. 16 minutes at idle to reach 200 degrees or 11 minutes to go >> from 174 when running to 200 degrees, I think is pretty good, at least >> based on my previous experience with idle temps rising. This allows me to >> drive the car in most any and all conditions. >> >> I guess from the responses you all do not think so - maybe I am missing >> something - would not be the first time. I do live out in the country with >> around only 90K people in the county so not much city driving. >> >> The water pump upgrade was made more for reducing possible air cavitation >> or pockets of air than the higher flow of water. >> >> No restrictor in upper hose at this point - tried in the past and removed >> it - did not seem to make a difference. >> Running 50/50 green antifreeze and 16 psi cap. >> >> Joel >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 2:01:11 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net >> wrote: >> >> >> Send Tigers mailing list submissions to >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> tigers-request at autox.team.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> tigers-owner at autox.team.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt) >> I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on >> I can?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious >> (clogged radiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) >> there have been other causes of high temperature readings: >> >> 1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the >> voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher >> than actual reading. >> >> 2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?s >> increase (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches >> flow. A stainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this >> from a lawn sprinkler) prevents the collapse. >> >> The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation >> are helpful. I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section >> of the grill area and the radiator. My understanding of the air dam is >> that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air >> pressure to draw air from the engine compartment. I truly believe a shroud >> would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot >> air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn >> externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful. >> >> In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting >> to to do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going >> on under the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn >> openings and proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade >> man-o-meters might be informative too. >> >> Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls >> hot coolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through >> the radiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or >> bad because it is less efficient than straight water. There are the people >> with a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the >> engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those >> in cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement >> known to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues. >> >> In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving your >> now running cool Tiger. >> >> *From:* Joel Martin via Tigers >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM >> *To:* Tiger List Serve >> *Subject:* [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach >> >> After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood >> down, I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last >> year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. >> >> >> >> 1. Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. >> 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick >> alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. >> 3. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert >> Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss >> black >> 4. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen < >> dlutjen55 at gmail.com> scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. >> 5. Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side >> tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. >> 6. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 >> painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub >> to line up. >> 7. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from >> radiator. >> 8. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. >> 9. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to >> radiator hoses. >> 10. New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit >> taller radiator. >> 11. New fan belt. >> 12. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would >> not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to >> fit my taller radiator. Stripped, primed and painted used shroud >> semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. >> 13. Installed 160 degree thermostat. >> >> So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other >> changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom >> of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this >> summer. >> >> Results as follows: >> >> Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood >> closed, car in sun. >> >> 5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees. >> >> 9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees. >> >> 12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees. >> >> 14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees. >> >> 16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees. >> >> Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. >> >> Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 >> degrees. >> >> Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is >> 208 degrees. >> >> All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located >> under dash. >> >> The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the >> outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s. >> >> Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still >> outstanding to be able to drive it out of town for any distance. The >> Tiger?s first major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in >> Pinehurst NC last month in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at: >> https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html >> You might have to copy and paste link into your browser. >> >> Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments >> over the years. I am sure there will be more. >> >> Regards >> >> Joel Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avg.com >> >> <#m_1692682837433975503_m_-124025642808230083_m_4323123673852204704_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tigers mailing list >> Tigers at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dave at munroe.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbsyv at yahoo.com Thu Jun 20 12:08:24 2019 From: jbsyv at yahoo.com (Jim B) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:08:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling and thermostat In-Reply-To: References: <2052555775.2532447.1560885898969@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16F8B639-2200-4658-AC17-16842E5A73EC@yahoo.com> The only thing a 160 stat will do is open up sooner. If your engine wants to run at 195, it will no matter what stat is in it. The issue with a 160 is that if it is a cold day, your engine may never get over 160 which is IMO too cold. The flow rate of a 160 and a 180 stat is the same. 2 cents > On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Jay Laifman via Tigers wrote: > > Your email did not have a link to an article about 160* thermostats. But I did a quick search myself. I came up with a bunch of guys warning that 160* is too low, which makes the engine run too cold, and the oil not heat up enough. That's true by half. The other half is internet hogwash. The half that is right is that running too cold is bad. The half that is wrong is drawing a bright line on the thermostat. Sure, if you have an otherwise bone stock engine and pop in a different thermostat, you can create issues. But the heat of the engine is also impacted by the size of the radiator, the material of the radiator, whether or not the radiator is black, the water pump speed, and the pulley sizes. Water that runs too fast through the radiator doesn't have time to pull out heat from the water. Water that runs too fast through the engine, doesn't have time to pull out heat from the block. Water that runs too slow, doesn't pull the heat out of the engine fast enough. So changing any one part in that system effects the rest of the system. It could be because of OTHER changes, the engine now needs a 160* thermostat to flow the water at the right speed at the right time. Therefore, the test is how your engine is cooling. It is not if or if not you have a 160* thermostat. > > Off soap box. > > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:55 AM Dave Munroe via Tigers > wrote: > Hi Joel; > > congratulations on getting your Tiger to run cool! > > I, like many other Tiger owners, have tramped down this overheating path for many years, and most of us have found the solution more or less in the same way you have done. > > In my personal search for Tiger temperature nirvana, I came across this very interesting article regarding 160F Thermostats. > You might want to re-consider your choice of thermostats. HOTRODSRJ at AOL.COM > > In another specialty car I run regularly, I had a similar problem, and corrected it in a similar manner. However, on this car I installed an oil pan temperature gauge, and found it very difficult to get the engine oil up beyond 180F. which I have not been able to remedy. The water temperature is very steady on this vehicle at 195F, regardless of the load on the engine.No way is the engine oil ever going to reach 220 deg to boil off the H20 condensate in the crank case. Not sure what to do about this, besides changing the oil very frequently. > > Just some interesting info, FWIW. > > Cheers, > > Dave Munroe B382000450LRXFE > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 16:25, Joel Martin via Tigers > wrote: > All > > Thanks for the responses. I am personally PLEASED with the changes that I have made. 16 minutes at idle to reach 200 degrees or 11 minutes to go from 174 when running to 200 degrees, I think is pretty good, at least based on my previous experience with idle temps rising. This allows me to drive the car in most any and all conditions. > > I guess from the responses you all do not think so - maybe I am missing something - would not be the first time. I do live out in the country with around only 90K people in the county so not much city driving. > > The water pump upgrade was made more for reducing possible air cavitation or pockets of air than the higher flow of water. > > No restrictor in upper hose at this point - tried in the past and removed it - did not seem to make a difference. > Running 50/50 green antifreeze and 16 psi cap. > > Joel > > > On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 2:01:11 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net > wrote: > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > tigers at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tigers-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt) > I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on I can?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious (clogged radiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) there have been other causes of high temperature readings: > > 1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher than actual reading. > > 2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?s increase (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flow. A stainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this from a lawn sprinkler) prevents the collapse. > > The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation are helpful. I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section of the grill area and the radiator. My understanding of the air dam is that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air pressure to draw air from the engine compartment. I truly believe a shroud would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful. > > In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting to to do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going on under the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn openings and proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-meters might be informative too. > > Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hot coolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through the radiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or bad because it is less efficient than straight water. There are the people with a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those in cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement known to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues. > > In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving your now running cool Tiger. > > From: Joel Martin via Tigers > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM > To: Tiger List Serve > Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach > > After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood down, I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights. > > Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. > Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. > Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan > scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black > Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen > scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. > Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. > Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. > Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. > Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. > Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. > New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. > New fan belt. > Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator. Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. > Installed 160 degree thermostat. > So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. > > Results as follows: > > Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car in sun. > > 5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees. > > 9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees. > > 12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees. > > 14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees. > > 16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees. > > Run the motor at 1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees. > > Run the motor at 2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees. > > Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees. > > All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located under dash. > > The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambient temperature from 50?s to mid 90?s. > > Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to drive it out of town for any distance. The Tiger?s first major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month in May ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at: https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html You might have to copy and paste link into your browser. > > Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments over the years. I am sure there will be more. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > > > Virus-free. www.avg.com _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dave at munroe.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at munroe.ca Thu Jun 20 13:14:29 2019 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 16:14:29 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 181 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maliburevue at yahoo.com Thu Jun 20 13:26:17 2019 From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 19:26:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Cooling and thermostat In-Reply-To: <16F8B639-2200-4658-AC17-16842E5A73EC@yahoo.com> References: <2052555775.2532447.1560885898969@mail.yahoo.com> <16F8B639-2200-4658-AC17-16842E5A73EC@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <987360234.476461.1561058778220@mail.yahoo.com> Jim B is correct. Thermostats only determine the lowest temp, not the highest. Once a thermostat fully opens, the water flows at the same rate as any other thermostat, regardless of the temp rating. Even if you removed the thermostat, the engine would still over heat on a hot day, and on a cold day it would never get to operating temp. A 160* thermostat is too cold to properly heat the oil for transfer of deposits from the engine to the oil filter. See pic lower left. This is my present Tiger when I bought it. The owner had overheating problems and changed to a lower temp thermostat. You can see the sludge buildup that gathered on top of the block in the lifter valley. The inside of the valve covers was the same. Gary From: Jim B via Tigers To: "tigers at autox.team.net" Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 12:08 PM Subject: [Tigers] Cooling and thermostat The only thing a 160 stat will do is open up sooner. If your engine wants to run at 195, it will no matter what stat is in it. The issue with a 160 is that if it is a cold day, your engine may never get over 160 which is IMO too cold. The flow rate of a 160 and a 180 stat is the same. 2 cents On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Jay Laifman via Tigers wrote: Your email did not have a link to an article about 160* thermostats.? But I did a quick search myself.? I came up with a bunch of guys warning that 160* is too low, which makes the engine run too cold, and the oil not heat up enough.? That's true by half.? The other half is internet hogwash.? The half that is right is that running too cold is bad.? The half that is wrong is drawing a bright line on the thermostat.? Sure, if you have an otherwise bone stock engine and pop in a different thermostat, you can create issues.? But the heat of the engine is also impacted by the size of the radiator, the material of the radiator, whether or not the radiator is black, the water pump speed, and the pulley sizes.? Water that runs too fast through the radiator doesn't have time to pull out heat from the water.? Water that runs too fast through the engine, doesn't have time to pull out heat from the block.? Water that runs too slow, doesn't pull the heat out of the engine fast enough.? So changing any one part in that system effects the rest of the system.? It could be because of OTHER changes, the engine now needs a 160* thermostat to flow the water at the right speed at the right time.? Therefore, the test is how your engine is cooling.? It is not if or if not you have a 160* thermostat. Off soap box. On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:55 AM Dave Munroe via Tigers wrote: Hi Joel; congratulations on getting your Tiger to run cool! I, like many other Tiger owners, have tramped down this overheating path for many years, and most of us have found the solution more or less in the same way you have done. In my personal search for Tiger temperature nirvana, I came across this very interesting article regarding 160F Thermostats.You might want to re-consider your choice of thermostats.??HOTRODSRJ at AOL.COM? In another specialty car I run regularly, I had a similar problem, and corrected it in a similar manner.? However, on this car I installed an oil pan temperature gauge, and found it very difficult to get the engine oil up beyond 180F. which I have not been able to remedy.?The water temperature is very steady on this vehicle at 195F, regardless of the load on the engine.No way is the engine oil ever going to reach 220 deg to boil off the H20 condensate in the crank case. Not sure what to do about this, besides changing the oil very frequently. Just some interesting info, FWIW. Cheers, Dave Munroe B382000450LRXFE On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 16:25, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: All Thanks for the responses.? I am personally PLEASED with the changes that I have made.? 16 minutes at idle to reach 200 degrees or 11 minutes to go from 174 when running to 200 degrees, I think is pretty good, at least based on my previous experience with idle temps rising.? This allows me to drive the car in most any and all conditions.? I guess from the responses you all do not think so - maybe I am missing something - would not be the first time.? I do live out in the country with around only 90K people in the county so not much city driving. The water pump upgrade was made more for reducing possible air cavitation or pockets of air than the higher flow of water. No restrictor in upper hose at this point - tried in the past and removed it - did not seem to make a difference. Running 50/50 green antifreeze and 16 psi cap.? Joel On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 2:01:11 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to ??? tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re:? Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt) I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on Ican?t remember what has or hasn?t been said. Aside from the obvious (cloggedradiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) there havebeen other causes of high temperature readings:?1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher thanactual reading.?2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm?sincrease (so not an ?at idle? issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flow. Astainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this from a lawnsprinkler) prevents the collapse.?The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation arehelpful.? I?ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section ofthe grill area and the radiator.? My understanding of the air dam is thatit is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air pressureto draw air from the engine compartment.? I truly believe a shroud would bevery helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot air alreadyunder the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn externally. Asnoted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful.?In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting toto do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going onunder the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn openingsand proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-meters might beinformative too.?Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hotcoolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through theradiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or badbecause it is less efficient than straight water.? There are the peoplewith a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those incooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement known toTigerdom and they constantly have issues.?In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving yournow running cool Tiger.?From: Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AMTo: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheating ? ShotgunApproach?After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hooddown, I took drastic steps.? I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights.? - Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank. - Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick?alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated. - Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black - Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. - Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. - Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. - Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. - Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. - Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. - New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. - New fan belt. - Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. - Installed 160 degree thermostat. So at this pointI do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.? Otherchanges could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom ofradiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out thissummer.Results asfollows:Cold start with86 degree ambient outside temperature ? at idle with hood closed, car insun.5 Minutes enginetemperature 174 degrees.9 Minutes enginetemperature 180 degrees.12 Minutesengine temperature 190 degrees.14 Minutesengine temperature 195 degrees.16 Minutesengine temperature 200 degrees.Run the motor at1500 rpm?s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees.Run the motor at2000 rpm?s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees.Turn motor offand in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees.All this isrecorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located underdash.The cartemperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambienttemperature from 50?s to mid 90?s.Whew, maybe atlast can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to driveit out of town for any distance.? The Tiger?s first majorouting was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month inMay ? you can get a glimpse of the cars at:? https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html?You might have to copy and paste link into your browser.Thank you allfor putting up with all my inane questions and comments over the years.? Iam sure there will be more. RegardsJoelMartin? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net | | Virus-free. www.avg.com | _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dave at munroe.ca _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/maliburevue at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4EngineBodyInteriorBefore.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4363636 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at munroe.ca Thu Jun 20 15:39:12 2019 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 18:39:12 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling and thermostat In-Reply-To: <987360234.476461.1561058778220@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: