[Tigers] Cooling and thermostat
Jim B
jbsyv at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 20 12:08:24 MDT 2019
The only thing a 160 stat will do is open up sooner. If your engine wants to run at 195, it will no matter what stat is in it. The issue with a 160 is that if it is a cold day, your engine may never get over 160 which is IMO too cold. The flow rate of a 160 and a 180 stat is the same. 2 cents
> On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Jay Laifman via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Your email did not have a link to an article about 160* thermostats. But I did a quick search myself. I came up with a bunch of guys warning that 160* is too low, which makes the engine run too cold, and the oil not heat up enough. That's true by half. The other half is internet hogwash. The half that is right is that running too cold is bad. The half that is wrong is drawing a bright line on the thermostat. Sure, if you have an otherwise bone stock engine and pop in a different thermostat, you can create issues. But the heat of the engine is also impacted by the size of the radiator, the material of the radiator, whether or not the radiator is black, the water pump speed, and the pulley sizes. Water that runs too fast through the radiator doesn't have time to pull out heat from the water. Water that runs too fast through the engine, doesn't have time to pull out heat from the block. Water that runs too slow, doesn't pull the heat out of the engine fast enough. So changing any one part in that system effects the rest of the system. It could be because of OTHER changes, the engine now needs a 160* thermostat to flow the water at the right speed at the right time. Therefore, the test is how your engine is cooling. It is not if or if not you have a 160* thermostat.
>
> Off soap box.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:55 AM Dave Munroe via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> Hi Joel;
>
> congratulations on getting your Tiger to run cool!
>
> I, like many other Tiger owners, have tramped down this overheating path for many years, and most of us have found the solution more or less in the same way you have done.
>
> In my personal search for Tiger temperature nirvana, I came across this very interesting article regarding 160F Thermostats.
> You might want to re-consider your choice of thermostats. HOTRODSRJ at AOL.COM <mailto:HOTRODSRJ at AOL.COM>
>
> In another specialty car I run regularly, I had a similar problem, and corrected it in a similar manner. However, on this car I installed an oil pan temperature gauge, and found it very difficult to get the engine oil up beyond 180F. which I have not been able to remedy. The water temperature is very steady on this vehicle at 195F, regardless of the load on the engine.No way is the engine oil ever going to reach 220 deg to boil off the H20 condensate in the crank case. Not sure what to do about this, besides changing the oil very frequently.
>
> Just some interesting info, FWIW.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave Munroe B382000450LRXFE
>
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 16:25, Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> All
>
> Thanks for the responses. I am personally PLEASED with the changes that I have made. 16 minutes at idle to reach 200 degrees or 11 minutes to go from 174 when running to 200 degrees, I think is pretty good, at least based on my previous experience with idle temps rising. This allows me to drive the car in most any and all conditions.
>
> I guess from the responses you all do not think so - maybe I am missing something - would not be the first time. I do live out in the country with around only 90K people in the county so not much city driving.
>
> The water pump upgrade was made more for reducing possible air cavitation or pockets of air than the higher flow of water.
>
> No restrictor in upper hose at this point - tried in the past and removed it - did not seem to make a difference.
> Running 50/50 green antifreeze and 16 psi cap.
>
> Joel
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 2:01:11 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net> <tigers-request at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net>> wrote:
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> 1. Re: Tiger Overheating ? Shotgun Approach (Tom Witt)
> I know this has been a long running problem for you. And as time moves on I can’t remember what has or hasn’t been said. Aside from the obvious (clogged radiator/engine, blades eroded off water pumps, air pockets etc.) there have been other causes of high temperature readings:
>
> 1. There might not actually be a problem with the cooling. Rather the voltage regulator for the temp gauge may be defective and causing a higher than actual reading.
>
> 2. The lower radiator hose collapses. This typically happens as the rpm’s increase (so not an “at idle” issue) the lower hose sucks in and pinches flow. A stainless steel spring set internal to the hose (many source this from a lawn sprinkler) prevents the collapse.
>
> The blocking plates and other means of preventing hot air recirculation are helpful. I’ve seen a flat sheet of aluminum between the lower section of the grill area and the radiator. My understanding of the air dam is that it is more effective at speed. I was told it generates a negative air pressure to draw air from the engine compartment. I truly believe a shroud would be very helpful. Otherwise to some extent you are simply churning hot air already under the hood. A well fitting shroud would ensure air is drawn externally. As noted others have found an electric pusher fan helpful.
>
> In this day and age of the GoPro camera I think it would be interesting to to do the old school yarn application and observe what is actually going on under the hood, under the car, and the external areas such as the horn openings and proposed air dam areas etc. A few well placed homemade man-o-meters might be informative too.
>
> Then there are the arguments as to whether a high flow water pump pulls hot coolant out of the engine faster (good) or pushes it too fast through the radiator (bad). Is coolant good because it raises the boiling point, or bad because it is less efficient than straight water. There are the people with a stock cooling system (and sometimes performance enhancements to the engine) that claim they never have a heat issue in a hot climate and those in cooler climates that have stock engines and every cooling enhancement known to Tigerdom and they constantly have issues.
>
> In the end I hope you are successful and enjoy a the summer driving your now running cool Tiger.
>
> From: Joel Martin via Tigers <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:04 AM
> To: Tiger List Serve <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Overheating – Shotgun Approach
>
> After about a year of struggling with overheating at idle with the hood down, I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with no chance of traffic lights.
>
> Purchased and installed SS gloss black radiator overflow tank.
> Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com <mailto:alw6464 at gmail.com> which are powder coated.
> Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan <rgstraghan at yahoo.ca <mailto:rgstraghan at yahoo.ca>> scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black
> Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen <dlutjen55 at gmail.com <mailto:dlutjen55 at gmail.com>> scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black.
> Purchased and installed new taller Tiger aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator.
> Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up.
> Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1” from radiator.
> Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-lite 14” nylon 6 blade fan.
> Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses.
> New top radiator hose from local source as SS hose would not fit taller radiator.
> New fan belt.
> Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator. Stripped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black – sitting on shelf.
> Installed 160 degree thermostat.
> So at this point I do not have a fan shroud – unless make up a custom. Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer.
>
> Results as follows:
>
> Cold start with 86 degree ambient outside temperature – at idle with hood closed, car in sun.
>
> 5 Minutes engine temperature 174 degrees.
>
> 9 Minutes engine temperature 180 degrees.
>
> 12 Minutes engine temperature 190 degrees.
>
> 14 Minutes engine temperature 195 degrees.
>
> 16 Minutes engine temperature 200 degrees.
>
> Run the motor at 1500 rpm’s for 1minute temperature drops to 196 degrees.
>
> Run the motor at 2000 rpm’s for another 1minute temperature drops to 194 degrees.
>
> Turn motor off and in a total of 27 minutes from startup - heat soak is 208 degrees.
>
> All this is recorded from temporary mechanical temperature gauge located under dash.
>
> The car temperature at any speed is at 174 degrees regardless of the outside ambient temperature from 50’s to mid 90’s.
>
> Whew, maybe at last can enjoy car with a couple of things still outstanding to be able to drive it out of town for any distance. The Tiger’s first major outing was at the Sandhills Motoring Festival held in Pinehurst NC last month in May – you can get a glimpse of the cars at: https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html <https://www.thepilot.com/gallery/concours-in-the-village/collection_d49fdacc-8091-11e9-86df-2b8021a08259.html> You might have to copy and paste link into your browser.
>
> Thank you all for putting up with all my inane questions and comments over the years. I am sure there will be more.
>
> Regards
>
> Joel Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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