[Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 111alignment comments

Thu Mar 21 18:13:17 MDT 2019

just a couple comments about the wheel alignment current discussion...almost all auto manufactures have recommended weight applications for doing an alignment, you would have to look far and wide to find a shop that does it, that being said most experienced techs can align the vehicle to perform well and obtain acceptable tire wear..secondly I can't comment on toe out as it pertains to a Tiger,  but I can tell you that in my experience with regular modern passenger cars today the toe out condition usually causes the car to not tract very well and it will dart from side to side with steering input, and if excessive will cause abnormal tire wear to the inside edge..specialty shops for performance modern cars probably will weight the car to the drivers average occupancy of the car, I worked in a Porsche shop many years ago and we did it, but most of those cars had suspension mods for auto cross and track days....today when I do my cars at the shop I sit in the drivers seat for for final settings..members out there could probably do that at your local tire shop,  just ask

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Sent: Thu, Mar 21, 2019 5:58 pm
Subject: Tigers Digest, Vol 11, Issue 111

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: 66 MK 1A Wheel Alignment (Tom Witt)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 11:13:21 -0700
From: "Tom Witt" <atwittsend at verizon.net>
To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] 66 MK 1A Wheel Alignment
Message-ID: <5E52898FA1844B268CFB02F6E9319DEE at user1PC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I?d think the shop manual setting are all but erased these days. Tires are significantly different. Even driving expectations have changed. Sometimes setting are to reduce tire wear as the #1 priority. Sometimes the settings are for steering factors such as ease of turning (especially with non-power steering cars). And sometimes the settings are to compensate for design flaws.  While it has been stated that the toe out setting Dale recommends are for ?turn in? response I wonder (regardless of how minor) if those setting also improve the horrible Ackerman the Tiger has.  My inclination would be that every Tiger is somewhat different as are the expectations of the driver. BTW, the heavier a driver you are the more it would seen a comparable weight be in the driver seat when setting.

Crossmember distortion and bolt head contact seem to be limitation with Caster.  I?d think today zero should be the minimum for Camber but likely something negative. And as mentioned Toe on a stock Tiger rack can often be between one of two positions, neither ideal. Lastly I always find it interesting when Toe is give in inches (or millimeters). Really it is an angle. In inches the tire/wheel diameter (large/small) will affect the angle. And..., where is the measurement point? At the wheel? At the tread? I?ve seem a lot of people use a tape measure at the tread and they are measuring no where near the center (largest portion of) the tire diameter.  So, toe in inches can be rather ambiguous.

For any ?Do It Your Self? types here is a toe gage I made out of a bed frame. One end is adjustable both at the lower rail, and at the contact bolt for different tack widths. The vertical holes allow setting at (or close to) the spindle height. The other end is not width adjustable but is height adjustable. The contact bolt is spring loaded so the gage can be moved around tire bulge and return to it previous setting. It is a comparative device and given the small differences (typically 1/16 = .062) I use feeler gages. Measurement is at the outer edge of the rim and in most cases I?m shooting for zero anyway..., maybe a hair toe in.

The Camber gage is purpose built for the 14? wheels and body contours of my daily driver. The biggest problem is wind blowing the pendulum weight. Both the Toe and Camber gage cost me essentially nothing since I had the materials lying around.

From: Ron Fraser via Tigers 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 8:49 AM
To: 'Joel Martin' ; tigers at Autox.Team.Net 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] 66 MK 1A Wheel Alignment

Joel

                The front alignment on the Tiger has always been a question mark to me.

First you have to read the Shop Manual carefully and understand the Rootes alignment procedure.

Look at Section F, pg. 4 & 5 ? the Rootes method ? fully laden car with gap gauges front and rear with 400 lbs. added weight at the front.

Has anyone ever used the Rootes method to set the alignment then removed the gap gauges and weight to see what the unladen alignment numbers look like?

Second, the Shop Manual alignment numbers are for the fully laden suspension.

Castor Angle = 3 degrees 50 minutes positive that = 3.8 degrees positive

Camber Angle = 30 minutes positive, plus or minus 15 minutes

Toe-in = 1/8 inch

The desired setup numbers I have written down for the street with radial tire:

Castor = 3 to 4 degrees positive

Camber = ? to ? degree negative

Toe-in = 1/16 inch

There is no indication if this is laden or unladen or exactly where I found these numbers.

Currently I?m not sure what my front alignment number are but I watch for uneven tire wear ? I have none.

I believe I have between 1 to 2 degrees negative camber and around 1/16 inch toe-in.

Ron Fraser

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Joel Martin via Tigers
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 6:09 PM
To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] 66 MK 1A Wheel Alignment

Alignment Thoughts
Yes I am confused about which specs to take with me to the alignment shop.  Maybe the light bulb will go on with your help. 

Reported: We didn't pay inordinate attention to the factory specs when aligning my Tiger last time, but went with numbers which were more conducive to performance. The set up has been: 

Caster, as much as you can find reasonably, 3.75~.  Put in FIRST

Camber -1.25~. 

Toe 0-1/16 (kind of hard with the stock tie rod end set up, you either get 0 or 1/8 in or out). 

These settings have worn tires evenly (yes, even with the camber), made the car very autocross and open track friendly, and provided good straight line stability.

Dale Says to use:  USE THESE

Caster:  3-4 degress  shims - put on no matter what but .1 or 06 or 1 of each?.  Positive or negative?

Camber: ? neg 

Toe:  0 to 1/16 out

Factory:

Castor:  3.5 Positive

Camber: ? Plus or minus ? positive 

Toe In: 1/8? (3mm)

Confusion:  SS shims .100? thick FS58 and .060? thick FS58M says they are for ?camber?.  Are there castor shims as well or did I not take good notes?  15? wheels on 205 x 50 x15 tires ? used mainly on the street with 4 hour trips so need good straight line stability.

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