[TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39
David P
frogeye at porterscustom.com
Tue Mar 21 08:13:45 MDT 2023
I second that notion.. dp
On 3/21/2023 4:56 AM, JOSEPH MATO wrote:
> Hi. John Esposito is the best LBC mechanic in CT and he has a shop in
> Oxford, CT called Quantum Mechanics. He is a math nut and works with
> the MG club and does the rebuilding work for TRF. He was making TR
> main shafts after he found no saleable units.
>
> Joe Mato
> 62 Wood Road
> Redding, CT 06896
> 917 232 1555
>
>
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 02:49:34 PM EDT,
> triumphs-request at autox.team.net <triumphs-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> second attempt, part 1 (aribert neumann)
> 2. Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience - 2nd
> attempt, part2 (aribert neumann)
> 3. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> second attempt, part 1 (DAVID MASSEY)
> 4. Re: Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> 2nd attempt, part2 (DAVID MASSEY)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:46:53 -0400
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn at gmail.com>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> second attempt, part 1
> Message-ID:
> <CAGkVM28WONnczb-ObP54A8pB0O4nMs-6QzVN_432Y8LqZ=Zq4A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so I am
> resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too large of)
> images. I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the image file sizes
> - hopefully this message will go thru.
>
> I'll start off with a quick comment - as I started to type the e-mail
> address, up popped suggestions that started with TR. Third on the list
> was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think). I sincerely hope
> someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my questions. I'm not on
> any other Triumph related groups - you are all I've got for input.
>
> I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission -
> please don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big
> Triumphs. On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars had
> spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and raising an
> edge
> on the main shaft. What keeps the collars from rotating when 1st gear is
> in motion? I am focused on preventing this problem in the future. When I
> rotate first gear on the shaft, the split washers rotate with the
> shaft. I
> am wondering if the tolerance stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings,
> spacers, etc (from the circlip to the split collars) was too large
> allowing
> first gear to push the split collars forward on the shaft. What else
> could
> cause this rotation/wear?
>
> Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning split
> washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in the first
> gear pocket. Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this message.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0400
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn at gmail.com>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> 2nd attempt, part2
> Message-ID:
> <CAGkVM2_qddwDt8R2M5Wx1mGzUgXgX1kQH6noupRw_yA7JqY-BQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a couple of
> places. The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I have opened up
> the bushings to only have a light interference fit). Worst is the
> diameter
> under the rear bearing. I can install the bearing but I have to hammer it
> ***hard*** to get it to fit on the shaft - can't be good for the bearing -
> guessing I might change the inner race diameter a miniscule amount. I'm
> thinking of sending this main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old
> main shaft. I have cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my
> lathe. The other damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage
> bearing
> rides in the input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the
> shaft and
> only on half of the bearing surface (fore/aft). I am already going to
> replace the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface
> inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear also. The max amount of
> surface missing on the nose of the old main shaft is 0.003 in diameter.
> Images: exploded view from Bentley manual, nose of the old, worn
> mainshaft
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting your
> responses. Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday morning.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:39:48 +0000 (UTC)
> From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> To: "aribertn at gmail.com" <aribertn at gmail.com>,
> "triumphs at autox.team.net" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding
> experience - second attempt, part 1
> Message-ID: <2090616878.2487776.1679315988251 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> It has been many years (< 25, I think) but I once rebuilt a TR6
> transmission with a used mainshaft that had similar wear on a shoulder
> like that.? There was a thrust washer that fitted up against
> shoulder.? A few years later I was rebuilding it again.? The thrust
> washer had broken into parts.? My solution was to buy a new mainshaft
> (that is a story in itself) along with some other parts.? 25 years
> later that part is still soldering on.? (I had to rebuild again for
> layshaft issues but that's unrelated)
> I would be very reluctant to reuse that mainshaft.? The raised ridge
> is not what worries me it is the fact that the edge of the grove is
> not square and the thrust applied by the helical gears will point load
> the split collars and they will fail again.? The TR6 transmission si
> probably different but the basic design is similar and the force
> loading is also similar.? Helical gears are sued to keep tooth noise
> down but the fact that they are wound in a helical manner around the
> axis means the forces applied to the gears is at an angle to that
> axis.? Part of that force is used to rotate the shaft but the other is
> applied to the bearings at either end of the transmission meaning the
> split collars in your case will take up that force as an interface
> between the shaft and the bearing inner race.? I don't have enough
> experience to say whether the transmission will last a week, month,
> year or 10 years with that shaft but I would have much more confidence
> in a new, quality shaft.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn at gmail.com>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:46 pm
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> second attempt, part 1
>
> I tried to send this message yesterday but it has not appeared yet so
> I am resending it - guessing that I may have had too many (or too
> large of) images.? ?I'll splint it into two messages and reduce the
> image file sizes - hopefully this message will go thru.
> I'll start off with a quick comment - as I started to type the e-mail
> address, up popped suggestions that started with TR.? ?Third on the
> list was "TR3driver" - the late Randall (Young, I think).? ?I
> sincerely hope someone will "fill his shoes" with respect to my
> questions.? ?I'm not on any other Triumph related groups - you are all
> I've got for input.
> I am in the process of reassembling (or trying to) my GT6 transmission
> - please don't tune out, conceptually the trans is similar to the big
> Triumphs.? ?On dismantling my trans, I observed that the split collars
> had spun on the main shaft, wearing a relief in the collars and
> raising an edge on the main shaft.? What keeps the collars from
> rotating when 1st gear is in motion?? I am focused on preventing this
> problem in the future.? When I rotate first gear on the shaft, the
> split washers rotate with the shaft.? I am wondering if the tolerance
> stack up of the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings, spacers, etc (from the
> circlip to the split collars) was too large allowing first gear to
> push the split collars forward on the shaft.? What else could cause
> this rotation/wear???
> Images as follows - old mainshaft with raised edge from the spinning
> split washers, good & worn split washers, good split washers nested in
> the first gear pocket.? ? Off in digest mode preparing part 2 of this
> message.
>
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs?
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
> From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> To: "aribertn at gmail.com" <aribertn at gmail.com>,
> "triumphs at autox.team.net" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding
> experience - 2nd attempt, part2
> Message-ID: <583075131.2506945.1679319054463 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> That looks like the heat treated, hardened? surface is starting to
> break up.? That is what happened to my layshaft.? Another reason to
> abandon that mainshaft.? If you have an alternate bearing combination
> that doesn't relay on that surface for the bearing rollers then the
> hardened surface is no longer critical.? But this is above my pay grade.
>
> BTW, I misinterpreted one of your previous photos.? The split washers
> transfer the lateral forces from the synchro hub to the mainshaft but
> the end result is the same, with a compromised groove surface like
> that the split collars will fail prematurely.?? If you open the grove
> to clean up the shoulder will the split washers stay in place?? If
> they fall out you have serious problems.? Even if they stay in place
> will it increase backlash?? Can you get oversized split collars?? Make
> shims?? All this is above my pay grade.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aribert neumann <aribertn at gmail.com>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Sun, Mar 19, 2023 6:52 pm
> Subject: [TR] Calling anyone with transmission rebuilding experience -
> 2nd attempt, part2
>
> Next question - my (new) replacement main shaft is oversize in a
> couple of places.? ?The diameter under the 2nd & 3rd gear bushings (I
> have opened up the bushings to only have a light interference fit).?
> Worst is the diameter under the rear bearing.? I can install the
> bearing but I have to hammer it ***hard*** to get it to fit on the
> shaft - can't be good for the bearing - guessing I might change the
> inner race diameter a miniscule amount.? I'm thinking of sending this
> main shaft back to Spitbits and reusing my old main shaft.? I have
> cleaned up the groove for the split collars on my lathe.? The other
> damage on the shaft is on the nose where the cage bearing rides in the
> input shaft - this damage is only on one side of the shaft and only on
> half of the bearing surface (fore/aft).? I am already going to replace
> the cage bearing with a bearing bronze bushing since the surface
> inside the input shaft pocket is showing wear also.? The max amount of
> surface missing on the nose of the old m
> ain shaft is 0.003 in diameter.? ?Images:? exploded view from Bentley?
> manual, nose of the old, worn mainshaft
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions please - off in digest mode awaiting
> your responses.? Trying to formulate a new plan of attack for Monday
> morning.
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs?
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 16, Issue 39
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