[Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB

Sun Dec 1 18:09:52 MST 2013

I can wholeheartedly recommend the Hi Gear conversion with the Ford type 9
gearbox.  It is a great conversion.  It fits easily, with very little in
the way of mods and looks stock from the interior.

I just drove my original and standard ZB yesterday.  I really miss that 5th
gear and syncro on 1st and 2nd!

Kind regards,

David

On 30 November 2013 02:49, Wayne & Isabel Hardy <gwhardy at suddenlink.net>wrote:

>   Just a short comment on Rivergate kits again..I have experience with a
> 210 tranny in a Midget. Neat little installation, requires only a couple
> stout smacks on the tunnel side so as to allow removal of the side located
> tranny oil check plug. You could if you wanted also use a hole saw clear
> through and check the level through the side from the inside of the cockpit
> but don’t need to. Gear selector comes out pretty much exactly where the
> old one did, and gears 1-3 are almost exactly the same as the Midget box,
> 4th is direct drive 1 : 1 ratio, and 5th is ease it on down the road gear
> for freeway use...especially if you have already gone to a 3.9 : 1 rear as
> I did. It gets about 45 mpg in 5th overdrive at 70 MPH, at about 2300 rpm;
> and 1st syncro is sure nice too. Very nice kit.
>
> Wombat
>
>  *From:* Allen Bachelder <bachldrs at comcast.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:40 PM
> *To:* List for the Z Magnette Group - North America<zmagnette at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB
>
> Mike and Charles,
>
> Yeah,  I can imagine that a 3.9 on a 1500 would present quite a challenge
> on Lombard Hill!  I guess my consideration of rear gears presumed the 1800
> was already in the picture.
>
> I forgot to point this out but in the third picture I sent, you can see
> I've moved the handbrake back about 1.5". This is not difficult at all -
> there's plenty of room to take up that much slack in the cable.  Also note
> that I tilted the lever up a bit on it's front bracket.  It clears the
> tower nicely. Regarding the 200SX or 240SX transmissions, the 280Z was
> Rivergate's choice and their kit will not fit the others. They liked the
> extreme durability of the 280Z - as it was designed to handle the
> six-cylinder engine.  They do have kits designed to fit the 210 five-speed
> to "A block" engines. Designed for Spridgets, I believe they also adapt
> well in Morris Minors. I keep my eye out for these on occasion and have
> dreams of my own MM 4-door with a 1275, a Rivergate/210 five-speed, a
> Spridget 3.9 diff, and Spridget discs up front.  The trick is to FiND a 210
> 5-speed. And for that matter, the 280Z 5-speeds are drying up also.  BTW,
> there is some activity in the BW T5 bull pen.  We may have another option
> before long.  Hopefully somebody who knows more than I will speak to this.
>
> I still hold with the opinion that the non-od MGB 4-synch would be more
> trouble to install than a Hi-Gear or a Datsun and give you very little
> return for your money and effort.  It would be nice to capitalize on that
> free one you have - except bear in mind that your freeby is the 2nd-most
> worthless part on an MGB, the most worthless part on an MGB being a 3sync
> non-od transmission.  If you advertised to MGB guys that you were currently
> accepting 4-sync non-od drop-offs, your front yard would be full by
> morning. Keeping one or two and tearing them down for parts makes some
> sense as the internals can be used in rebuilding od boxes.  I gave away
> four of them about two years ago. I have one "spare" 4-sync od box that
> I'll will to one of my kids someday. The other kid will get the house and
> everything that's in the bank.
>
> Regarding shifter location, I think that problem can be solved pretty
> easily - since the Rivergate/Datsun brings it's shifter up right in the MGB
> 4-sync opening. Ergo, if the Rivergate/Datsun shifter requires about a 2"
> rearward expansion in the Magnette tunnel, the 4-sync MGB shifter would
> require about the same. I'm pretty sure it would be doable. ' Wonder if
> anybody's tried this with a Triumph TR6 box.  After all, a Triumph has to
> be good for something...  ;-)  ;-)  ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Allen
>   ******************************************************************
>
> *Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs*
> *'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT*
> *North Street, MI 48049, USA*
> *http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
> <http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs>*
>
> ******************************************************************
>
>  On Nov 27, 2013, at 2:22 PM, charles durning wrote:
>
>  Allen,
>
> Thanks for the response.  I'm not intending on using a MGB OD transmission
> just the NON OD trans that came with the engine.  My concern was with the
> location of the shifter.  I'm thinking that with a little fabrication I can
> relocate the shift lever in the opening for the remote control.  I might
> even be able to adapt the Magnette lever there.  I'll compare the 2 when I
> get it out sometime in the future.
>
> A friend has a used Ford Sierra trans and the adaptor parts he removed
> from a wrecked MGB.  It's FREE.  I looked it over and it looks like the
> sfift lever would interfere with the parking brake lever also.  It looks
> like a major job to relocate the shift lever on that trans.  I would use it
> if I can work out relocating the shift lever.
>
> Frankly I would be happy with a 4 speed, that's why I would consider using
> the NON OD MGB 4 synchro trans that came with the engine.  I could keep the
> 3 synchro trans it would be easy enough to adapt to the 5 mb engine.
>
> BTW I did some looking around and it looks like the trans from a Datsun
> 200SX or 240SX would put the shifter in the right place.
>
> Charlie Durning
>
> If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is watching.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Allen Bachelder <bachldrs at comcast.net>wrote:
>
>> As far as I know, the cheapest way to do this is with the Datsun 280Z
>> five-speed (it has a "Z" in it!) and a Rivergate kit.  I've done it on two
>> different Magnettes.  The kit is designed for an MGB so there is a bit of
>> fabrication necessary - but it isn't rocket science.  The bit in question
>> is the transmission mount. The Hi-Gear Ford Sierra kit is available from
>> either Moss or Bruce Woodson and I understand there is a purpose-built
>> version for the Magnette.
>>
>> Having done the Datsun/Rivergate option, I can say that it is pretty darn
>> easy.  The pictures show the only modifications done to the car.  Bear in
>> mind that the PO had converted the car to the Datsun transmission with a
>> kit homemade by his mechanic. The second picture shows how much material
>> was removed from the back of the shifter opening.  In fact, this is more
>> than necessary, but the third picture shows how I dealt with it.  I chose
>> not to weld the new tunnel patch in case a future owner wants to reverse
>> the conversion.  In this sense, in answer to frequent criticism, by using a
>> Japanese transmission, I actually preserved more original MG than I would
>> have with an MG transmission. Another advantage to this approach is that
>> the old Magnette drive shaft still fits - requiring only that the front
>> U-joint yoke be reamed slightly to fit the Datsun U-joint which of course
>> has it's own front yoke and transmission spline.
>>
>> If I recall correctly, I used an early MGB shift-lever boot.   I did
>> rework the flange of the shift-lever tower with a body hammer to fit its
>> new location. The PO didn't use a tower at all.
>>
>> One more thought.  If you're undecided about the transmission choice,
>> first try replacing your original 4.55 differential gear set with a 4.3, a
>> 4.1 (if you can find one), or a 3.9.  This is an easy two-hour job. You
>> might find that even with the original gearbox, you're happy with the
>> higher-geared rear end. It's interesting that the two ZAs I rode in while
>> visiting the UK were both the earliest 4.87 rear-end types, and while we
>> never went on the "M roads" with them (equivalent to our interstates), they
>> seemed remarkably unstressed.  For awhile there, I started wondering why I
>> had gone to all this effort.  But then I get on the I-69 here in Michigan
>> with its 70 mph speed limit and I'm sure happy to have my 5th gear, along
>> with the 3.9, giving me 25 mph per 1,000 rpm.
>>
>> FWIW,
>> Allen
>>   ******************************************************************
>>
>> *Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs*
>> *'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT*
>> *North Street, MI 48049, USA*
>> *http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
>> <http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs>*
>>
>> ******************************************************************
>>
>>  On Nov 27, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Steve C. wrote:
>>
>>  As Steve K states I installed a 4 syncro overdrive many years ago in my
>> ZA. I would not even consider doing so today. The 5 speed kits are so much
>> easier to do. The come with everything you need and require almost no
>> modifications to the car. To install the late over drive you need to build
>> a rear transmission mount, a transmission tunnel, drive shaft, speedo gear
>> box and cable. Then deal with the starter hitting the frame and making a
>> clutch hydraulic line. I also did some mods to the shift tower, but do not
>> remember exactly what. I think that covers it all.
>> --
>> Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> Steve Kirby <skirby210 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is not my place to answer this, and it is further not my place to
>>> offer up this answer, but I will anyway!  One of my first, of many,
>>> mentors, in the Magnette World was Steve Carroll . . . he of thee superb
>>> header set up many of us have purchased.  Steve did put a full late B
>>> synchro in his.  I do remember Steve describing the various things he had
>>> to do.  Steve is a person of immense talents, so his pay grade is much
>>> higher than mine.  Perhaps Steve will answer, now that I've prodded him a
>>> bit, or Charlie can contact him directly.
>>>
>>> #2SteveK
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* LannM at aol.com
>>> *To:* zmagnette at autox.team.net
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:29 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB
>>>
>>> Shifter location aside, the 4 sync is wider than the 3 sync.  Compare a
>>> 3 sync MGB with a 4 sync.  The transmission tunnel is noticeably
>>> different.  I've put a 4 sync in and early MGB and it takes a lot of work
>>> with a BIG hammer to move sheet metal around.  Even then, its still a tight
>>> fit.  I can't imagine a Magnette would be any easier.
>>>
>>> I think Allen is right, a Hi-Gear 5 speed would be quicker, easier, and
>>> probably cheaper.
>>>
>>> Lann
>>>
>>>  In a message dated 11/26/2013 10:19:44 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>>> durningcharles at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> Robert,
>>>
>>> I didn't think that even modifying the remote would work.  It would
>>> still be too far back, not to mention the height.  I was thinking about
>>> eleminating the remote and mounting the shifter directly to the opening on
>>> the trans where the remote attaches.  I still have to get under the car and
>>> do some measuring to see if that would be close.
>>>
>>> It would be good if some BMC car used the 4 synchro trans with a direct
>>> shifter.  That would keep me from having to make something.
>>>
>>>
>>> Charlie Durning
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:58 AM, <monster at caverock.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website%20pages/Dads_Oxford.html
>>>>
>>>> On the above page are some photos and a description of fitting an MGB
>>>> engine and 4-synchro+overdrive 'box to a 1960's Farina Oxford.
>>>> It includes a pic of shortening the remote gearlever extension to fit,
>>>> and a new tunnel.
>>>>
>>>> I'd agree that the benefits of non-OD box over all the mods needed for
>>>> a 3-synchro box might not be great.
>>>> I also love the sound of the non-synchro 1st gear. Bah, musicians, eh?
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> --
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26.11.2013 15:50, Allen Bachelder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Charlie,
>>>>> Even without overdrive, the remote shifter on the MGB 4-sync sits
>>>>> high and your going to have to substantially reshape the transmission
>>>>> tunnel to make it fit. That's a ferocious price to pay for a
>>>>> synchronized first gear. If you're going to that much trouble, you
>>>>> might as well go five-speed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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