[Zmagnette] Paint

[Steve Kirby]

thanks Scott.  I realized, subsequent to sending this, that I am describing how use single stage paints, NOT clear coating over a base coat.  To each their own, I don't personally think a clear coat paint job looks appropriate on a vintage car, but others will argue that forever.  Again, who has the best marinara sauce?

Read this over again, and I noticed a few missed words and typos and punctuation omissions.  Sorry . . . ya get what ya pay for, I guess!  In case any poor soul is reading this for the first time, I tried to fix the errors.

Steve
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Scott Woolman 
  To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 9:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Paint


  Steve 
  Thank you. great  info.
  Scott
  Sent from my iPhone

  On Dec 25, 2013, at 12:03 PM, "Steve Kirby" <skirby210 at cox.net> wrote:


    Scott--

    You're right, you are going to get overwhelmed with opinions and ideas, and likely, most of them will be fine.  I think prepping a car for a good paint job is a lot like being around a bunch of good cooks.  They are all going to have different ways to make the best marinara sauce, but I betcha in the end, they will all be great.

    If you want, I once put down on paper, for a fellow Club member, more-or-less how I've done it.  But, I won't send it unless you want it.  Like you've already correctly observed, you are likely to get overwhelmed.

    The other thing I would "warn" you against is that I've often been around folks who insist you must use "brand X's ____________".  That's BS.  There's a lot of good companies out there, and as long as you are using compatible, QUALITY products, it (IMHO), doesn't matter a hoot which brand you use, and to an even more controversial opinion, you can even mix/match stages, as long as you are following the advice of someone who knows what the heck they are doing.

    Thus, my one "ABSOLUTE" bit of advice would be to get hooked up with a quality auto body supplier in your area.  Find the person who knows their stuff, AND STICK WITH THAT PERSON.  If you are  like a friend of mine who insists on shopping the best price for every little thing he needs, including on-line, and drive to each of 358 stores in the area to save 3 cents on a gallon of ________, then you will never build a good relationship/rapport with a person who can tell you how to substitute certain things for the more expensive things and save some real money, and can answer that question of " . . . why is my surfacer coming off" and those types of things.  For an example, I do like PPG paint products, but they are very expensive.  If you believe the advice of some, then you should use EVERYthing PPG . . . gosh, PPG abrasive paper, PPG measuring cups, PPG funnels, PPG lacquer thinner, PPG epoxy sealer, blah, blah, blah.  You will know you are doing it right, when the CEO of PPG sends you a bottle of 50 yr. old Scotch for your birthday.

    However, a good supplier will tell you that you can readily subsitute other (even) less expensive PPG products for some of the prep stages.  Or gosh golly, even use a totally different brand of better surfacer, saving about $200 per gallon.  I won't bore you with the names of what I use, 'cuz I live in CA, and we have things you can't buy (and probably don't want to buy  . . . . $$$$), and you probably have access to a wider variety of products, no doubt at a reduced price.

    In the briefest note possible, I'll throw this out there, and then everyone else can whack it to pieces.  Based on the fact you said you're already down to mostly bare metal (Re-reading, this is far longer than I anticipated, but I still consider it a BRIEF summary!!!!  This is a complex topic, IMHO!!!!)"

    Use a self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer.  No need nowadays to use a separate self-etching primer.

    Do your initial repairs . . . . banging out, metal work, filling of deepest/worse areas.  

    Re-apply the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer in any areas where you may have exposed bare metal.  The idea is never to have actual bare metal . . . at this stage.  If you've only got a few, very small bare areas, you might want to buy some self-etching sealer in a spray can.  Tis expensive, about $18 for a large spray can, but it beats, sometimes, making up your spray gun, cleaning, etc.

    Don't try and get the surface perfect yet.  Use a good quality filler, if needed, and long boards or foam boards to around 120.  The sealer you've applied thus far is really NOT "surfacer", it is not intended for a surface finish, in fact, it is not even intended to be "sanded" at all.  Don't panic, you're no where's near done here . . . your filled repairs are still rough, and you no doubt still have scratchs, maybe even some very small dings.

    Apply a good coat of a good quality surfacer.  You get what you pay for.  Super cheap surfacer is exactly that.  Do NOT buy anything that claims to seal and surface (and cure cancer) in the same can.

    Additional filler repairs can continue.  If your repair is "almost" perfect, just needs a "wee bit" more, now you move up to what is commonly called a "skim" product, intended to be put no more than a 1/16" or so thick, and mostly sanded off.  The beauty of these products is that they go on much easier, and sand off so much easier.  There are different "grades" of skim products, I actually use a third, very fine one . . . like if I see an air bubble, or a scratch.  Don't fill these minor imperfections with your "basic filler" stuff . . . .it is too thick, too heavy, and too hard to get a fine surface when sanding.  This is one of the biggest lessons I've learned, in the fairly recent past.  You might be saying "OK, why not just use that "skim" stuff for the deep repairs?"  'Cuz it does not have the strength of the good filler products.  Most filler products have some kind of reinforced fiberglass in them.  One brand I would recommend is MarGlass . . . for a deep repair, where metalwork just has not totally worked.  Normal depth repairs are done with a "regular" fill product, which your supplier can recommend.  I have my favorites.  You now commonly read in magazines that the entire car was skimmed.  I don't do that, but I understand why  . . . 

    Continue to apply surfacer as needed.  You will keep moving up the "grit scale", to around 280 or so "dry".

    Now, buy a spray can of "Guide coat", which you apply very lightly . . . creating a speckle/overspray kind of coat.  Do not try to save $8 bucks here and use flat black spray paint.  Did that once . . . not good.  Now, using around 280 or so, either a long board or long foam piece, sand across contours, with 2 - 3 good strokes.  Immediately, you will observe the low spots.  How low?  A tad bit?  May be able to bring up with a heavy application of surfacer.  Miss a ding or much deeper?  May need to go back to filler or skim.  I'm currently helping a Club member with his B.  He had it professionally painted.  Terrible paint job.  I didn't want to say anything, but in short, no one guide coated that car.  There are a dozen or so very visible dings just on the back end of the car.  Sad.

    Repeat the above steps until, when you guide coat, with only 2 - 3 strokes, it is perfect.  Don't get "cute" and say "Oh, I can sand that black stuff out of there!!!!"  Sure you can, but you're only cheating yourself.

    Should, at any point, you hit bare metal, hit it with self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer

    Once the guide coat is perfect, now lay in a supply of perhaps 320 (I usually skip the 320 stage), and 400 long pieces of wet-or-dry.  Now, you proceed to wet sand the car.  An empty spray bottle of water is helpful.  Lots of water.  When this stage is done, you go over the car with a good, strong light . . . looking for scratches or other imperfections.  Never kid yourself that the color coat" will take care of it, or hide it."  Actually, color coat will make most imperfections look far worse.  Any problems, fix 'em now.  You can buy a "variety" pack of the various shapes of the "new" foam blocks . . . highly recommeded.

    Apply one final coat of self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer.  This stuff is the "new" magic.  It absolutely allows your color coat to bond.  TRY to the color coat as quickly as possible to the application of the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer -- with some brands, like within TEN minutes.  Do NOT sand or abrade the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer--you do NOT want to scratch or penetrate the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer with anything like a scratch.  Working alone, I find I can't do this step "properly" (meaning that quickly), but it still seems to work OK.  The PPG rep would probably say otherwise.

    One "trick" I might throw in here, is this:  With the high cost of good paint, I will use a lesser quality paint, of the same type and color (duh) for things like the interior (all covred over anyway), inside fender wells, the boot, the engine bay, inside/under the boot/boonet lids, etc.  Thus, I may only need 1 gallon of the really expensive stuff, and 1 gallon of the other.  A local company, which is becoming huge, and has a huge online presence, is TCP Global.  They make (I believe made by ValSpar . . . now a much bigger player in the auto refinishing business -- having bought out a few other companies recently) their own brand of polyurethane paint, totally compatible with things like PPG Concept, at about 1/4 the price.  I find it easier to spray and work with than the good stuff!  I'm tempted to do an entire car with it.  We'll see . . . but I've already bought the PPG paint for the Magnette . . . so whatever car comes up after the Magnette!!!!  

    Spray the color coat . . . the easy part, actually,  You've done all the hard work above.  Put on plenty of paint (at least 3 - 4 "double" coats), so you have plenty to color sand/buff.

    Color Sand

    Buff

    We'll cover those two stages later!

    Collect your First place trophy

    You might say "Wow, that is too much work.  I'll just let a shop do it."  Sure, most folks do, and you can get some great jobs out there.  What I've observed so often, is that naturally, you don't want to spend more money than necessary, so the shop sounds good, and you go with them.  Sometimes, the results are fantastic, and sometimes they are horrid.    I've seen some great jobs at reasonable prices, and I've also seen some dowright awful jobs, where folks paid waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much money.  There are some real craftsman out there, and there are some real hacks.  If I was going to have a shop do it, I'd insist on seeing past customer's cars.  Don't just listen to their speel.  I'd make sure they list what they are going to do, step-by-step.  I'd be dropping by often to make sure they are doing it.  I want to say you are going to get what you pay for, but that doesn't always seem to be the case.  I will say this:  I've been asked to paint other people's cars.  I simply can't/won't.  I'm way too slow, and make mistakes.  The cost of materials, for me, far exceeds what I see people getting their cars painted for.  IF I was to paint a Magnette, which I will be doing one of these fine milleniums, which did not need extensive metal work, rust repair or welding, I would start at $10,000.  I know you just flipped, but I think that is realistic for a really good paint job.  

     . . . and Happy Holidays.

    #2SteveK





      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Scott Woolman 
      To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America 
      Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 10:43 AM
      Subject: [Zmagnette] Paint


      At a risk of getting overwhelmed with opinions. Here is my question. My MG is down to metal  all rust and body is done. Should I use an acrylic etching primer then a sandable primer. 
      Thanks
      Scott   

      Sent from my iPhone
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