[Zmagnette] Stub stacks

Allen Bachelder bachldrs at comcast.net
Fri Nov 15 09:30:03 MST 2013 

Gene, I'm talking about the "stub" stacks - so designed as to fit inside the filters.  

Kelvin, Do your comments apply to the "adaptor plates" (illustration #54 in the Moss catalogue  http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28996#top)?

Allen
****************************************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
North Street, MI 48049, USA
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
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On Nov 15, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Gene deRuelle wrote:

> If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air mixture to whatever is IN the air?  In other words, you can't run the stacks and an air cleaner, can you?
>  
> Gene D
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Anderson
> To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
> 
> I respectfully disagree that more air = more noise by default. "Noise" to a mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-product of inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy from whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise). Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same - because the efficiency of the system is increased.
> 
> To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the "apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a hard 90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge which is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.
> 
> Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow. 
> 
> Mike!
> 
> 
> Michael Anderson
> One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
> 775 772-2056
> 
> From: Wayne & Isabel Hardy <gwhardy at suddenlink.net>
> To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <zmagnette at autox.team.net> 
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
> 
> If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet, then more power should always be the result. If more power is “Better”, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a more better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a result is to be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the K&N filter people caution that their filters flow so much more air than the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment adjustment may be desirable for best running.
> Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that “Better” or not???
> I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.
> MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran with velocity stacks and no filters usually.
>  
> Wombat
>  
> From: Allen Bachelder
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM
> To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
> Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>  
> I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking about the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the carb.  Without a conical stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inlet.  How much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a squared-off leading edge?
>  
> That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform any of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I would think they would be Bernoullian disasters.  Would a Magnette engine always run better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?
>  
> Curious in Michigan.
>  
> (Allen)
> ****************************************************************
> Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
> Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
> '57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
> North Street, MI 48049, USA
> http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
> ****************************************************************
>  
> On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:
> 
>> Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power.  Not lots, but it all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flowing exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel economy.  You note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters the throat… I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&N’s on my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.
>>  
>> From: zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard Greenberg
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM
>> To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
>> Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>>  
>> What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the engine than a regular pancake filter?
>>  
>> On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog: http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28996#top  Are these from APT or Rimmer better?
>>  
>> Always anxious to learn...
>> Allen
>> ****************************************************************
>> Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
>> Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
>> '57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
>> North Street, MI 48049, USA
>> http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
>> ****************************************************************
>>  
>> On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, monster at caverock.net.nz wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an answer from him.
>> 
>> So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types available at a reasonable cost:
>> $32.50 ea -http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx
>> $57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT
>> 
>> I've excluded the K&N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.
>> Are there any others that people would recommend?
>> 
>> They're going to fit inside K&N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.
>> 
>> regards,
>> -- 
>> Robert (in NZ)
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