[Zmagnette] Preservation

Mon Jan 27 11:51:37 MST 2014

My first Magnette was a ZB with no particular provenance or interesting history.  My wife liked the two-tone car we saw at the Welches GT and assumed ours would be that way too. So the choice of a "faux" varitone was made.  Disc brakes on the front, an 1800 3-main, seat belts, etc all made sense for a car to drive as much as possible.  New carpet and interior coverings made the most sense practically and financially.

My current project, on the other hand, is a single owner car with a good story.  It was already re-painted in the original birch green so that decision was made for me. As I have been working I have tried to save as many original interior panels and leather as possible. I know that some of these things will likely not look as good and may need re-doing in my lifetime, but the history makes it worth it too me to try and preserve the original. 

I think we all make reasonable choices for the car we have, keeping in mind how we plan to use the car. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Kirby <skirby210 at cox.net>
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <zmagnette at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 27, 2014 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Preservation

very good points.  I'm reminded of a guy I met, about 402,401 levels over my pay grade, who participates in the "real" classic car scene.  He told me, with a slight smile on his face, that the car is not original if it doesn't have the orig air in the tires/tyres!  But, on the next part he was serious.  He said that when they type up their litttle "bio" sheets on the car, they find paper from 1932 (or whatever year), and a typewriter from that era to type it out.  He didn't mention the ribbon . . . .  Ask me?  That's insanity, but I guess that's the kind of thing it takes to win, in those circles.

#2SteveK

----- Original Message ----- 

From:   Allen   Bachelder 

To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North   America 

Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:38   PM

Subject: Re: [Zmagnette]   Preservation

I see my "Geraldine" has already come up in this discussion, and I thank   you for the kind remarks.

Sometimes the choice is made for us.  Depends on the car   that ends up in our hands.  "Geraldine" came to me in Ivory over Damask   Red, but her chassis number reads "KATT....."  Yup, that means she was   originally a MONOTONE Varitone - seafoam green all over.  For that reason   alone, she was no candidate for originality.  The only way to return to   original color  was to repaint her.  A complete repaint in a   "surviver" class? I think not. Then she already had an 1800/5-speed.    That was a big part of the attraction.  Only after getting her home   did I discover what a botch-job that was.  So there I was with no   original engine, and no original transmission.  But much as the 5-speed   conversion had been botched, the engine had been very-well rebuilt. And then   there was the upholstery - well-worn burgundy velvet. Does the word "pimp"   come to mind?  So, for me, restoration was the only route - but then   there's that third choice that Steve T wasn't expecting: even while restoring,   do you go totally original or modify to taste.  I think folks at most   "people's choice" shows seem to have a slight preference for original   restorations.  If you modify, overall, your car needs to be all the   better to win over equally nice originals. That's just a theory, mind you.    I've lost in some shows because some folks didn't care for my mods.  

Beyond that, despite the fact that my paint job (AFTER I did all the rust   repair myself!!!) cost more than my first house, I am detail-challenged, and   what's more, I drive my cars.  "Geraldine" will inevitably deteriorate at   least some in the oncoming years.  And I have to accept the fact that my   temperament and my driving habits have a price, and that's OK.  It has to   be - otherwise I just won't enjoy the car as much as I could.  

Given an original car worth saving, I think I would save it.  But   hey, let's consider what a truly original car would be: 

It would have four badly split and rotted bias-ply tyres.

All rubber window trim would be cracked, broken, and hard as a     rock.

All hoses would be perished

Wiring insulation would be hardened and cracked

All bullet connectors would be oxidized 

Battery would be dead and dried out...

Do you get the point?

OK, so I'm being facetious, but if we're proposing   guidelines for judging the barn-find classes, you can't simply give the trophy   to the most original car. Now, how crazy is it - really - to see somebody   gently prodding an original car on original tyres out of a trailer and onto   the showfield.  We might be impressed as h*ll with those original tyres   in a remarkable state of preservation, but I don't think Steve Trovato should   DRIVE his car to the show and on to the field to get beaten by a car like that.  

So, realistically, the answer has to be that the ideal survivor car is   one that has been properly maintained so as to maintain its usefulness over   the years.  It may have received even some major repairs - but only as   necessary to keep the car reliable and useful.  For example, I think we   all agree that Grant Howlett has the most beautiful unrestored Magnette on the   planet.  Yet Grant's  "Lord Peter" required an engine rebuild after   not much more than it's first 50 years.  But who could argue that it is   no longer original? If it isn't, what is it???  It's certainly NOT   restored!   I would suggest that an engine rebuild every 50 years or so   might be considered routine maintenance.   

Pardon my verbosity, but I'm trying to address another concern Steve T   brought up: the lack of any viable recognition in the NAMGAR "preservation   class".  Granted, we don't have to come home with a trophy in order to   enjoy a show or GT, but there's no metabolism in a "display only" class.   Whether you expect to win anything or not, it's a lot more fun when you know   your class is being judged - by the people, or whatever.  

I suggest that for the benefit of all "preservation class" participants -   not just Magnettes - that we should propose a set of criteria for judging   these cars, and furthermore, I would propose that this be done by a team of   judges.  We are never going to agree, even just within ZMG, on what those   criteria should be, but I think we, and NAMGAR, could agree on criteria that   would probably garner just about everybody's approval. Folks would enter their   cars in the preservation class, knowing in advance what the criteria are. Some   would grumble - so what's new? Criteria can be revisited from time to time   anyway.  

It's really only in attempting to apply criteria, that we figure out what   they really are.  Last year at Asheville, Steve, I remember hearing   somebody saying that he'd rather have your car than all the rest put together.    So there are people out there who really appreciate what you are   doing. 

Beyond these considerations, I wholeheartedly agree with those who say   "it's your car; do what you want with it".  While treading on one of the   dearest friendships one can hope for in life, I need give an example of my   point of view regarding the aforementioned Millicent Rose.  MR strikes me   as a strong candidate for preservation.  OK, so she needs repair to her   upholstery. So, I might argue, repair it.  She will be a little less   original - but simply a little more maintained (a la Lord Peter).  OTOH,   I think I know MR's owner to be a man who is passionate about achieving   excellence with his own hands. Whether it's rebuilding the transmission,   painting the car, or refinishing the dash, here resides a manually-expressed   creativity that simply cannot be satisfied in any other way.  Ultimately,   we as owners are more important that the stuff with which we work.    Whatever our answer to Steve T.'s dilemma is, that answer has to take   into account that we are all individuals with individual reasons for being in   the hobby.  

The one conclusion I can come to is that NAMGAR needs to reward those in   the "preservation class" - or that class will die out.  Even folks who   are genuinely disinterested in trophies do enjoy participating in a process   that recognizes excellence.  Their cars do set the standard.

And it's time to quit.  You might think that Bachelder guy doesn't   have enough to do. And right now, that's true.  It's too cold out to heat   my shop, and I'm about 75% retired - so what's left?  You just got   it...

Cheers,

Allen

****************************************************************  

Allen   & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home   for Wayward MGs

'57   ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT

North   Street, MI 48049,   USA

http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs  

****************************************************************

On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:26 PM, Steve Kirby wrote:

I'm so torn with this same question.  I've bored most of you with     the story of the orig owner, early ZA I have: "Millicent Rose".

Gosh, what I'd love to do is save the back seat and back door panels,     cuz they are so darn near perfectly original, and I know the leather could     be preserved with all that wonderful stuff.  Even the front door panels     are very, very preservable.  The interior is that green color.      It's "sooooooooooo" 50's English Magnette, and a big part of me loves it,     simply cuz it is so original.  The car is black, and again, I love the     originality, but frankly, a black car and the green interior . . . . ahhhhh,     truthfully, (to quote Wray Lemke) " . . . not my cuppa tea" . . . not in     blazing hot weather like we have around here.  Then, there's the front     seats, which are totally shredded and beyond anyone's preservation     abilities.  The material is simply gone, and the insides are now     outsides.  So, I suppose I could replace the front seats in matching     old leather, dyed to match . . . .but alas, then it's not original anymore .     . . is it?

Likewise, the carpets are history . . . they have to be replaced.      Again, then it's not original anymore.  "It's only original once", I've     heard.  Then, there's the headliner.  Not a rip or tear or stain     in it.  BUT . . . dear Mrs. Millicent Rose Thompson must have smoked     about 85 million cases of cigarettes inside the poor thing, and I literally     can not stand to even briefly sit inside of it.  So, that headliner     absolutely has to go . . . and who knows what else to get rid of the wreak     of cigarette smoke . . . I guess you gathered I'm a non-smoker :)))      Again, it's no longer original, and that headliner, together with the seats     and carpet and "NON negotiable".

The overall black paint is pretty much in good shape . . . except for a     few spots, which I suppose I could just ignore, along with dings in the     front wings . . . suppose I could repair and spot paint just those?

Then, the engine . . . which was out of the car when I bought it, and     obviously wasn't removed just for exercise.  The engine bay shows some     "bodging".  Now we have to back up a bit too.  Prior to getting     "Millicent Rose", I'd already bought 2 gals (and the hardener and the     reducer) of a sort of  Midnight Blue type color paint, to paint     the ZB I was originally going to restore, along with new, from Lou, macrame     front door pulls, in a biscuit color . . . 'cuz that's the color we wanted     for the interior of that "first" car.  Oh, and the Rivergate kit to go     with the Nissan 5 speed is already sitting here, along with Allen's 1800     adapter plate. 

So, should I "eat" all that, and keep "Milicent" stock.  My     unbelievable, super supportive wife even said "So, do the original car with     all the upgrades, and the color we want (blue, biscuit interior), and then     preserve the other one!"  Wow, some bride eh?  T'was I who     actually said something like "Not gonna happen".  Takes me about 5     years to do a car.  I could be block sanding in my casket at that     rate.

So thanks Steven for bringing this up.  I'm enjoying the responses     so far.  My mind is made up, and I know there are others who will     vehemently disagree with my decision, but in the end, ya know what?      It's our car!  I'm not doing all this to please a few folks at the next     car show or GT or whatever.  We'll never make everyone happy, but if my     bride likes it, I will be pleased.

#2SteveK

----- Original Message -----

From: Steven Trovato

To: List for the Z Magnette Group -       North America ; List for the Z Magnette Group -       North America

Cc: List for the Z Magnette Group -       North America

Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:07       PM

Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Preservation

Phil,

Yes, I do plan to do what pleases me.  I       am not a slave to the 
opinions of others, but I am       interested in the thoughts of people I 
respect.  I have no       plans for a full restoration at this time.  I am 
going to keep driving my car       and enjoying it.  I'm not really looking 
for votes on what I should       do.  I am interested in hearing what 
people think of this trend in       general.  I am also interested in 
learning more techniques and       strategies for owning and maintaining a 
car with a preservation       attitude.

-Steve T.

At 08:53 PM 1/26/2014, mg1948 at verizon.net wrote:
>The question I       think you should ask yourself is "What do I want and 
>what pleases me" or is it       important what others think of your car.
>
>I've had 21 MGs       & some I tried for strict originality & it was 
>important I show well       & others opinions.  I would not drive in the 
>rain or 100 miles to a       meet.
>
>Others, my Magnette, was not restored to that       level.  It satisfied 
>my wife because of a/c,       and I wanted a reliable driver and not be 
>afraid of door dings,       bugs, and was a nice restoration but not a 
>trailer queen or 95+       restoration.
>
>Just my       opinion.
>
>Phil

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