[Zmagnette] preservation Paint Chips Part 1

Tue Jan 28 22:21:01 MST 2014

Hi Allen,

I’m curious about where you came up with the color Sea Foam
Green?  I have never heard of it so
I started doing some research.  I
have a fairly comprehensive collection of Z type sales literature and I find no
mention of a Sea Foam Green.

Just in case you don’t have all these brochures, you mind
some of the following to be interesting. 
In the early brochures for the ZA no descriptive names were given to the
colors offered, they were simply listed as Grey, Black, Green, Maroon, etc.

ZA brochure H and E 5578 publication date 9/55 is the first
brochure I have that lists more descriptive names for the colors offered and
this is the first reference I’ve found to Island Green.  

ZA brochure H and E 569 publication date 5/56 lists Island
Green

ZB brochure E 5669 publication date 11/56 uses the same
pictures as the above brochure but the ZA hockey sticks have been air brushed
out and ZB wing trim magically inserted. 
This brochure is the first that I have that lists the duo tone
combinations and it introduces the duo tone Magnette – no mention is made to
the Varitone name – perhaps that comes later?  The green choices are Island Green monotone and for Duo tone
options you could have Island Green on top and Sage Green on the bottom, or
Island Green on top with Black on the bottom.

ZB brochure H and E 5752 with no publication date is similar
to the above.  The one difference
that I can find is that Island Green is still the monotone color but for the
duo tone color Island Green on top is matched with either Reseda Green or Black
on the bottom.  This is the first
and only mention of Reseda Green that I can find.

ZB brochure H & E 5866 publication date 6/58 is also
similar to the above brochures. 
Island Green is still the monotone color but the duo tone greens are now
Island Green over Dark Green or Island Green over Black.  

Please note that what I have called the publication date
might be the print date?  I’m not
sure which it is and wouldn’t be able to explain the difference even if there
was one.  Also note that just
because it was printed in a sales brochure doesn’t mean that it actually went
into production.

 Stay tuned for Part 2 

Yours,

Dick
Dick SprafkeProvidence, RI1957 ZB

From: bachldrs at comcast.net
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 23:57:26 -0500
To: zmagnette at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservation

Yah but any with island green and sea foam green within physically comparable distance?

On Jan 28, 2014, at 10:06 PM, Steve Kirby wrote:some chips for sale on EBay . . . if you're really that concrened  :)))----- Original Message -----From: Allen BachelderTo: List for the Z Magnette Group - North AmericaSent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:22 PMSubject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservation
Well, I figured if I got it wrong, somebody would correct me.  In that sense I was right. ;-) ie. I was wrong and somebody corrected me. But that "sea foam" bounced around the list for quite awhile and nobody else caught it. You won the prize - now I just have to figure out what the prize is...  Problem is, when I see"Island green" in my mind, I see "Sea foam green" and I can't tell the difference! Anybody have any paint chips with the two colors side-by-side? I need to re-educate my brain as to the difference.
Thanks John,Allen
****************************************************************Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GTNorth Street, MI 48049, USAhttp://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs****************************************************************
On Jan 28, 2014, at 3:32 PM, John Park wrote:98hp! Wow! That’s about 40% more than mine. I’m jealous Allen. The other questions for you is: Isn’t TT Island Green?From: zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allen Bachelder
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 2:07 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservationI'm always amazed that while refinishing destroys the value of a piece of antique furniture, "repairs" to an antique Oriental rug, quilt, historic document or picture often enhance its value.  I sort-of understand but it's a little confusing. And antique clocks and radios are worth very little unless they work.  So you have an antique radio, but two condensers and four tubes have been replaced to make it work. Does that diminish or enhance it's value?  Old speakers, household or automotive, can be re-coned or replaced.  In a car, I can't imagine this would make much difference, value wise.  But say you're buying an antique car that you want it as original as possible. If the engine had been freshly rebuilt to absolutely original specs by a highly-respected shop, would that diminish or enhance the value?  I would think it would be an enhancement. If the car was going in a museum, who cares? And if it gets driven, even just occasionally, it would be a huge asset. The engine can look the same either way, and the numbers still match.As for my preferences, it depends  on the car.  If the car is incredibly original when I buy it, I would keep it that way.  If the car has been repainted the wrong color, it's a toss-up but the car will not do well in a preservation class if the owner is honest.  My first Magnette had been a Manumatic but the Manumatic had been replaced - along with the original engine - years before I bought it.  I even called the previous owner to try to recover the stuff. The seized original engine was in his shop, but the Manumatic had long previously gone to scrap. Originality was not possible. Therefore I had no qualms about my 1800-5-speed conversion.  Same thing with "Geraldine".  The original drivetrain was long-gone. The car was repainted the wrong colors, and upholstered in the wrong materials. Originality, again, was impossible.  And, to address Rodger's point:  sometimes it is only keen observation of The Navigator's wishes that will unlock the key to the checkbook.  I wanted to take Geraldine back to her original monotone varitone sea foam green (after all, monotone varitones are very rare - and worth having)  but The Navigator loved her ivory/damask-red livery and wouldn't hear of sea foam green.  So, what do you do?  Of course, we all know...  Same thing: A/C...Ed, I can see your point about wanting a fast car, therefore buy a Vette.  But isn't there just a bit of fun in blowing the doors off a vette with a car that's only supposed to have 68 hp?  Granted, my 98 hp Magnette is not going to do that, but my cruising habits have raised some eyebrows among fellow motorists. Guys at the rest areas coming up and saying "hey, that thing really moves out" etc:  always fun...  I've been a passenger in MGB V8s, where we've gotten some incredible glances from 300Z owners, etc, as be blew by them.  When I was a kid, I dreamed of building resto-rods long before the concept evolved.  Geraldine is no resto rod, but one of my principles was to build a Magnette that performs as well as its interior elegance promises.FWIW,Allen****************************************************************Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GTNorth Street, MI 48049, USAhttp://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs****************************************************************On Jan 27, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Steven Trovato wrote:

Everyone says they don't care what people think, but I think they do, at least a bit.  That's the only reason there is judging at car shows.  As for this group, I think for the most part we do accept the "do what ever pleases you" philosophy.  But it still pleases us to have other people appreciate what we have.

I do think we need to clarify some definitions.  Preservation means keeping what is original.  Restoration can be done with an emphasis on originality, or it can be done while making substantial modifications to suit your preferences.  I would argue that one can fix some paint chips and still call it preservation.  But if you paint it the original color, that's not preservation.  It's restoration to original.  If you paint it bright blue or add an automatic transmission and air conditioning, that's restoration to suit your taste.  There's the concept of a "restomod" where they may take an American 1950's sedan and change the whole drivetrain to late model Corvette, add air conditioning, power steering, tilt steering wheel, etc.  It looks like the 50's but drives like a modern car.

As for preservation, it has been noted that with things like fine art and antiques, it is originality that is valued over all else.  Refinishing a fine antique will destroy its value.  A skilled craftsman might make fine repairs but  change as little as possible.  Sometimes, even cleaning is a big mistake.

-Steve T.

At 01:35 PM 1/27/2014, webuck1 at cox.net wrote:

Hi all,My Magnette isn't even a chick magnet but, it drives, stops and turns some heads. When I attend the frequent free car shows most of the people look at my car and keep on going. Only the curious stop to look and chat. Doesn't matter to me. All I am trying to do is let the people see that 4 door MG's were produced.As for preservation, I will go back to original color (what ever that will turn out to be) new carpet, new headliner and two rebuilt front seats and an engine rebuild. I drive my car all the time, everywhere, well almost everywhere. Steve, Do what you like with Millicent Rose. She is a beautiful car with some touch up to several items. Please the wife, please yourself. Does it matter what everyone else thinks? If it were a 100 point car I would never drive it. My thinking is cars were designed to drive and not sit in a barn for long periods of time. Drive it the way YOU like it.Enjoy the Magnette(s) in your case. My MGB on the other hand will be mechanically almost original. The paint with it's two sunburns is not original at all. I love the color. It will sport a removable hard top too.Buckey
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