[Zmagnette] preservation Paint Chips Part 2

Wed Jan 29 07:10:33 MST 2014

Hi John,
Thanks for the input.  I agree with your comments regarding the fading of the paint chips.  You should see the variety of colors in the sales brochures I mentioned in Part 1 which have also faded.  They are very attractive but the colors depicted vary so much from one brochure to another brochure that they are useless for trying to establish what the colors may have looked like originally.  There's that word again.  :)  This will be at least the third time my car will have been painted so there won't be much "original" left - especially after all the body panels that I purchased from the Shortens have been installed.  :)
Dick

From: jpark at bmts.com
To: zmagnette at autox.team.net
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 08:05:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservation Paint Chips Part 2

Franklin,            In my opinion all the colour chips shown are faded or have a bias to dullness (not in the sense of lacking shiny). The Island Green colour should look a bit more like the Ash Green chip shown and the Steel Blue chip should be more like the Glacier Blue chip. That is how my eyes see it and my brain remembers it. Jeff Powell’s ZB is Steel Blue as I believe is Jim Shulte’s ZB. They are much lighter and bluer than the indicated chips though they may be subtlely different side by side. Ed Polunus’s ex Wittmer car is a much lighter green than indicated on the chip.             Hope that helps,            John From: zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of franklin sprafke
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:25 AM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservation Paint Chips Part 2 Hi again,There was a paint code site listed in The Sacred Octagon a few months back that might be of interest to the group so I will try to list the link below.http://www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorlibrary/default.aspxThere are some quirks to the site for example our beloved Magnettes are listed as a Make, not a model.  I’m assuming this confers some sort of exalted status and perhaps  preferential treatment?From the home page, Use the “Classic 1950-1977” section and in Step 1 select the year (I used 1957) and then Step 2 the Make (use Magnette - for 1957  Magnette is offered but MG is not).  Since I haven’t tested all the different years, perhaps it would be best to use 1957 so you can follow along and be on the same page with me.  This will bring you to a color chip selection with 9 pages.  Click on the page you would like to view.  Allen’s Green’s are on pages 3 & 4.  I see samples of Sage, Island, and Dark Green on page 3.  Page 4 also has a Sage Green but it looks completely different than the one on page 3 to my eyes, but what do I know?  In fact most of the Greens on this page look pretty Black to me ----.   Selecting page 9 will provide a list of all the colors and they are cross referenced at the top to all the BMC Makes.  I can find no mention of the Reseda Green that I listed in my previous email, and no listing for Sea Foam Green either.  I find it very interesting that Magnette is listed at the top along with MG, Austin Healey, Riley, etc.Since my car is/was Steel Blue and I’m having a devil of a time getting the paint codes for the original color, I’m asking for anyone with a Steel Blue car to help me out.  The Steel Blue paint chip is listed on page 2.  Does anyone think that this is the correct color for Steel Blue?  Notwithstanding the difficulties in printing colors, and the fact that this chart, which seems to be dated 11/59 has undoubtedly faded, there is no way that I would consider the represented color to be Steel Blue.  What does everyone else think?  This leads to an interesting continuation of the preservation/originality thread from earlier today.  For as much as I’d like to paint my car the original color, I personally think the Iris Blue on Page 5 is a more attractive Blue than the Steel Blue shown on Page 2.  It makes no sense to spend good money on a paint job only to end up with a color you dislike.  What to do? What to do?Has anyone had any experience in dealing with TCP Global and would you care to make a recommendation as to their service and the quality of their products?Well, I’m sure I’ve taken too much of your time.  I can only hope that this will be of interest to at least a few of you.Yours,Dick  Dick SprafkeProvidence, RI1957 ZB From: bachldrs at comcast.net
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 23:57:26 -0500
To: zmagnette at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservation

Yah but any with island green and sea foam green within physically comparable distance?On Jan 28, 2014, at 10:06 PM, Steve Kirby wrote: some chips for sale on EBay . . . if you're really that concrened  :)))----- Original Message -----From: Allen BachelderTo: List for the Z Magnette Group - North AmericaSent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:22 PMSubject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservation Well, I figured if I got it wrong, somebody would correct me.  In that sense I was right. ;-) ie. I was wrong and somebody corrected me. But that "sea foam" bounced around the list for quite awhile and nobody else caught it. You won the prize - now I just have to figure out what the prize is...  Problem is, when I see"Island green" in my mind, I see "Sea foam green" and I can't tell the difference! Anybody have any paint chips with the two colors side-by-side? I need to re-educate my brain as to the difference. Thanks John,Allen****************************************************************Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GTNorth Street, MI 48049, USAhttp://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs**************************************************************** On Jan 28, 2014, at 3:32 PM, John Park wrote: 98hp! Wow! That’s about 40% more than mine. I’m jealous Allen. The other questions for you is: Isn’t TT Island Green?From: zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:zmagnette-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Allen Bachelder
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 2:07 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] preservationI'm always amazed that while refinishing destroys the value of a piece of antique furniture, "repairs" to an antique Oriental rug, quilt, historic document or picture often enhance its value.  I sort-of understand but it's a little confusing. And antique clocks and radios are worth very little unless they work.  So you have an antique radio, but two condensers and four tubes have been replaced to make it work. Does that diminish or enhance it's value?  Old speakers, household or automotive, can be re-coned or replaced.  In a car, I can't imagine this would make much difference, value wise.  But say you're buying an antique car that you want it as original as possible. If the engine had been freshly rebuilt to absolutely original specs by a highly-respected shop, would that diminish or enhance the value?  I would think it would be an enhancement. If the car was going in a museum, who cares? And if it gets driven, even just occasionally, it would be a huge asset. The engine can look the same either way, and the numbers still match.As for my preferences, it depends  on the car.  If the car is incredibly original when I buy it, I would keep it that way.  If the car has been repainted the wrong color, it's a toss-up but the car will not do well in a preservation class if the owner is honest.  My first Magnette had been a Manumatic but the Manumatic had been replaced - along with the original engine - years before I bought it.  I even called the previous owner to try to recover the stuff. The seized original engine was in his shop, but the Manumatic had long previously gone to scrap. Originality was not possible. Therefore I had no qualms about my 1800-5-speed conversion.  Same thing with "Geraldine".  The original drivetrain was long-gone. The car was repainted the wrong colors, and upholstered in the wrong materials. Originality, again, was impossible.  And, to address Rodger's point:  sometimes it is only keen observation of The Navigator's wishes that will unlock the key to the checkbook.  I wanted to take Geraldine back to her original monotone varitone sea foam green (after all, monotone varitones are very rare - and worth having)  but The Navigator loved her ivory/damask-red livery and wouldn't hear of sea foam green.  So, what do you do?  Of course, we all know...  Same thing: A/C...Ed, I can see your point about wanting a fast car, therefore buy a Vette.  But isn't there just a bit of fun in blowing the doors off a vette with a car that's only supposed to have 68 hp?  Granted, my 98 hp Magnette is not going to do that, but my cruising habits have raised some eyebrows among fellow motorists. Guys at the rest areas coming up and saying "hey, that thing really moves out" etc:  always fun...  I've been a passenger in MGB V8s, where we've gotten some incredible glances from 300Z owners, etc, as be blew by them.  When I was a kid, I dreamed of building resto-rods long before the concept evolved.  Geraldine is no resto rod, but one of my principles was to build a Magnette that performs as well as its interior elegance promises.FWIW,Allen****************************************************************Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GTNorth Street, MI 48049, USAhttp://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs****************************************************************On Jan 27, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: Everyone says they don't care what people think, but I think they do, at least a bit.  That's the only reason there is judging at car shows.  As for this group, I think for the most part we do accept the "do what ever pleases you" philosophy.  But it still pleases us to have other people appreciate what we have.

I do think we need to clarify some definitions.  Preservation means keeping what is original.  Restoration can be done with an emphasis on originality, or it can be done while making substantial modifications to suit your preferences.  I would argue that one can fix some paint chips and still call it preservation.  But if you paint it the original color, that's not preservation.  It's restoration to original.  If you paint it bright blue or add an automatic transmission and air conditioning, that's restoration to suit your taste.  There's the concept of a "restomod" where they may take an American 1950's sedan and change the whole drivetrain to late model Corvette, add air conditioning, power steering, tilt steering wheel, etc.  It looks like the 50's but drives like a modern car.

As for preservation, it has been noted that with things like fine art and antiques, it is originality that is valued over all else.  Refinishing a fine antique will destroy its value.  A skilled craftsman might make fine repairs but  change as little as possible.  Sometimes, even cleaning is a big mistake.

-Steve T.

At 01:35 PM 1/27/2014, webuck1 at cox.net wrote:Hi all,My Magnette isn't even a chick magnet but, it drives, stops and turns some heads. When I attend the frequent free car shows most of the people look at my car and keep on going. Only the curious stop to look and chat. Doesn't matter to me. All I am trying to do is let the people see that 4 door MG's were produced.As for preservation, I will go back to original color (what ever that will turn out to be) new carpet, new headliner and two rebuilt front seats and an engine rebuild. I drive my car all the time, everywhere, well almost everywhere. Steve, Do what you like with Millicent Rose. She is a beautiful car with some touch up to several items. Please the wife, please yourself. Does it matter what everyone else thinks? If it were a 100 point car I would never drive it. My thinking is cars were designed to drive and not sit in a barn for long periods of time. Drive it the way YOU like it.Enjoy the Magnette(s) in your case. My MGB on the other hand will be mechanically almost original. The paint with it's two sunburns is not original at all. I love the color. It will sport a removable hard top too.Buckey
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